What would you do if another NCO corrected your soldier and was wrong on the regulation?

2017-04-27T11:58:47-04:00

A soldier goes into a soldier of the month board and is told by the senior NCOs on the board her uniform is wrong. The senior female on the board tells her that her ribbons have to be centered on the seam that runs down the uniform. You know this is wrong because that is not what 670-1 says but they kick her out of the board to "fix." What do you do?

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 27 at 2017 12:04 PM

2017-04-27T12:04:49-04:00

Be a good NCO and remember to praise publicly and chastise privately. So tell you soldier you got his six and deal with the intruder privately. If an issue still exists, things can go up to the SEL. Last thing you want is it getting outside the ENL community.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-04-27T12:05:24-04:00

I would speak with that SNCO offline, show the regulations, and see about getting my Soldier back into the board.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 12:08 PM

2017-04-27T12:08:15-04:00

This didn't happen o me - a friend of mine posted on Facebook that they kicked her soldier out and there were all these NCOs "fixing" it and when done her name tape was like 2 1/2 inches higher and it was just a mess. I just found it very odd that they didn't know something as simple as that. Guess I'm not missing much in the Army world while I'm stuck in joint service land.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Apr 27 at 2017 12:17 PM

2017-04-27T12:17:00-04:00

You can never go wrong by keeping a copy of the most up to date regulation.

Response by SPC Paul C. made Apr 27 at 2017 12:26 PM

2017-04-27T12:26:38-04:00

If the soldier is going into a soldier of the month board, chances are they studied 670-1. They should have had a conversation to resolve this uniform issue. After all the answer is documented in 670-1. The senior NCO should have never removed the soldier from the board.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 1:04 PM

2017-04-27T13:04:26-04:00

maybe it's just the air force, but the likely course of action for me would be to simply inform them of the actual reg and push on. most good leaders will admit a simple error in judgement and push on without recourse.

Response by CPO Robert (Mac) McGovern made Apr 27 at 2017 1:22 PM

2017-04-27T13:22:22-04:00

I am distressed the rest of the board did not react or know the regulation. Shame on them.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Apr 27 at 2017 1:47 PM

2017-04-27T13:47:31-04:00

Ask my soldier to wait outside and educate the board. Once the board is in agreement that my soldier's uniform was correct, I would go outside the board room and explain to my soldier that the board has checked the regulations and found that there was no discrepancy with her uniform. I would then have her report to the board to resume the interview. If the senior female board member has any integrity, she will explain her error. If she is unwilling to do so, I would expect the senior member of the board to reinforce there was no error in her uniform, tell her not to be concerned with the error and proceed with the interview.
If I were the CO, and the senior female NCO did not explain her error to set my soldier at ease, she and I would have a meeting on the mountain after the board was adjourned.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 2:01 PM

2017-04-27T14:01:13-04:00

This wasn't my soldier, but I was stationed at 1st PERSCOM as a SGT, and a couple of AG NCOs, one SGT, another a SSG, decided they were going to force this other SPC to change her class A's. She was wearing the AG crest above her front pocket (as it says in 670-1), and they insisted she needed to wear the 1st PERSCOM unit crest. One of the "NCOs" even flat out said "If we're wrong, there's more of us so she's going to change for uniformity, not us".

Of course, they then turned to me, saw my Signal Corps RDI, and the SGT (not the SSG) tried to order me to change it. I said "you realize I'm Signal, right?" She said "You're in an AG unit, so you wear the AG crest". I said "I'm wearing the 1st PERSCOM Unit Crest on my shoulders as per the reg". She said "Not good enough". I said "The reg says I'm right, and you and I are the same rank. Go bitch to my NCOIC about it or step off". The SSG looked at me, and I said "Same deal with you, SSG, the reg says I'm right, so you don't get to power trip on me."

They did bitch to my NCOIC, and I showed him the regs, and he told them to leave me alone.

I don't understand why they didn't like me! ;)

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 27 at 2017 2:51 PM

2017-04-27T14:51:34-04:00

Ask the Sm to step out side, have a discussion, come to a agreement that is reviewed and accepted by the Senior board member, bring the SM back and get on with business.
Happens more times then i can count.

Response by SGT Charles Napierala made Apr 27 at 2017 3:00 PM

2017-04-27T15:00:43-04:00

Similar thing happened to me. I had presented to the board with my sponsor in Dress A's. The board members were in ACUs. They looked over my uniform and told me I was wearing the wrong unit award and I needed to get my shit right before attending their board. They went on to tell me that they thought I was 'the example' for junior soldiers and that this was extremely disappointing.

After I left the board, I was searching my phone to find where I went wrong and made sure I had the right unit award. Shortly after I was kicked out, my sponsor pulled me back in to complete the board. At the end of the board, the members apologized, saying they were comparing my uniform to my sponsor's uniform and thought I had the wrong unit medal on it, when my sponsor was the perpetrator.

So, my sponsor stood up for me and I formed the board members that I was in the right, but he did it privately and everything worked out in the end.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Apr 27 at 2017 3:38 PM

2017-04-27T15:38:09-04:00

Did they kick her out, or were they testing her to see if she would know the order herself? Maybe they were testing her knowledge of regulations or her military bearing.

If the head of the board honestly didn't know the uniform regulations, then she probably shouldn't be sitting on the board. If that's the case, I would have a word with her with a copy of the order highlighted in hand.

But I'm not so eager to just assume your soldier was kicked out of the board because of her uniform. I don't know if Army boards are different than Marine boards, but in my opinion, it sounds like the board was testing her to see how she would react.

Response by LTC Joseph Gross made Apr 27 at 2017 4:28 PM

2017-04-27T16:28:46-04:00

You address the board if possible as this NCO chose to present this bad information in front of the board and if not, then you correct that NCO in private. Likewise, you have to inform your Soldier that the NCO was in error and this is why....

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Apr 27 at 2017 6:06 PM

2017-04-27T18:06:11-04:00

I was taught that unless you were a walking talking regulation to keep you mouth closed until you were sure you were right. In this day an age of Ipads, Smart phones and lap tops, if I saw something I believed to be incorrect I would check and be able not only to point out the issue but to recite the correct placement, regulation, paragraph and sub paragraph. I don't know if its done anymore but when I went for all my boards my COC checked me out very closely as I was representing them. When I sent troops to the board I did the same. I didn't want the 1SG/CSM ripping me a new one for my failure towards attention to detail :) As to the question, if I were allowed into the board as a sponsor (We were not allowed in my day) I would request permission to approach and address the board from the President of the board, exp[lain the issue and await the self correction.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2017 7:48 PM

2017-04-27T19:48:06-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member kick that NCO off the board and tell them to go read the regulation. OR...tell them they are wrong and go tell Soldier "as you were" and to come back in and proceed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2017 7:44 AM

2017-04-28T07:44:48-04:00

I fail from using tact all too often and I'm a bit of an @$$hole, so I would have print out that page from the PAM, highlighted it, dropped it on her desk and then told her to square herself away.
I seen a SFC tell a Soldier during a board that he was out of uniform because his ribbons were not "parallel to the marching surface". Since I was also on that same panel, I informed them that they were incorrect and that term or verbage isn't stated in the regulation.

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Apr 30 at 2017 1:15 PM

2017-04-30T13:15:45-04:00

That is a great question and I would have to address that with the senior, but if would be after the board and then if the senior female did not see the error of her ways, I would address this issue with my 1SG. We all know it is pretty hard or at least it was when I served (1980-2002) to get soldiers to go in from of SOM boards.

Response by SFC Joseph Lumpkins made Apr 30 at 2017 1:18 PM

2017-04-30T13:18:42-04:00

As a senior NCO that has sat on many promotion and SOM boards, I have seen fellow NCOs make incorrect comments and the soldier is penalized for them. for me I have asked that the board stop and then address the issue right then and there, but if I was not on the board and it was one of my soldiers, I would first try and talk to the female senior NCO and point out that she was incorrect and if that did not fix the issue then I would address it with my 1SG becasue we all know how hard it is to get soldiers to volunteer for SOM boards.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 3:17 PM

2017-04-30T15:17:09-04:00

Tell the soldier to wait outside & educate the nco on the regulation with the board there. They made the mistake of being wrong infront of a soldier & board members. The corrective action be taken there.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2017 4:30 PM

2017-04-30T16:30:03-04:00

I would try and concern myself is the competency of the soldier in their MOS or slotted position. That is a greater refection of the individual than appearance of uniform. The best soldiers I ever worked, if you have time for beauty pageants you aren't working hard enough.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 1 at 2017 11:01 AM

2017-05-01T11:01:55-04:00

Assuming "you" are on the board, pull out the reg and discuss with other Board members.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2017 1:19 PM

2017-06-01T13:19:00-04:00

Chastise in private praise in public. Speak with that NCO and provide the correct guidance to them. Speak to your joe and let them know what the NCO was trying to accomplish but do not degrade or talk badly of the NCO. Everybody makes mistakes

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made May 31 at 2019 5:14 PM

2019-05-31T17:14:30-04:00

Could it be the board was testing her to see if she knew the regulation? When I went to the Sgt Morales board in Germany, I had a CSM challenge me on my answer. He actually started to raise his voice and become aggressive in his demeanor. I stood by my answer, which I was positive of. Later I found out that they were trying to intimidate the attendees to see their reaction and see if they could hold their military bearing

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2019 8:20 PM

2019-06-10T20:20:21-04:00

This sounds like a scenario based question for/from the board. LOL. Hmmmmm.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 25 at 2020 7:09 PM

2020-10-25T19:09:00-04:00

It’s been forever for me, but why is the guy saluting indoors, no cover not under arms?