What would you do if you had a junior Sailor that will not adhere to simple regulations and "forgets" to do what he is told?

2015-07-24T14:49:43-04:00

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 24 at 2015 2:53 PM

2015-07-24T14:53:19-04:00

If I had a Jr. soldier for get stuff, I would ensure that it would be duct tapped to him for the next few days so he would not "forget it" in the future.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Jul 24 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-07-24T14:58:41-04:00

He can be encouraged to follow rules and regulations and orders by use of physical exercise. Run him from sunup to sun down and any other form of PT you can think of.

Response by SSgt Randy Sweat made Jul 24 at 2015 3:06 PM

2015-07-24T15:06:27-04:00

Crush him. There are plenty of his peers to guide him in the error of his ways. Empower your troops and ensure they understand your expectations and they will police each other

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:07 PM

2015-07-24T15:07:13-04:00

Put this Junior Sailor in charge of something important (but not too mission critical) to where regs and standards have to be followed and nothing can be allowed to be "forgotten." Give this person the proper training and information to do this job (so it doesnt come back to bite you). This way, when something gets FUBAR, then this Sailor is the one responsible. Hard lessons taught the hard way sometimes have to be done.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jul 24 at 2015 3:11 PM

2015-07-24T15:11:28-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member - Make him walk the plank? Does the Navy do that? :-)
Seriously, you should not waste your time with this sailor. If he continues to not follow instructions, etc., you are better off recommending he be discharged. Your time is better spent mentoring sailors who have a future.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 24 at 2015 3:17 PM

2015-07-24T15:17:20-04:00

There are plenty of "gentle" ways to remind him to do things.

Depending on what he is forgetting, you can use the "dummy cord" method, "peer pressure" (one of us fails, we all fail). There are countless ways to correct the issue.

I always like the "It's just easier to do it the right way" than have to deal with the hassle if I did it wrong, method. Going through something 5x because I did it wrong vs 1 time because I did right.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jul 24 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-07-24T15:18:00-04:00

Has he gone through a DRB? I had Sailors that acted up and they FEARED that. Said it was worse than going to Mast.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 24 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-07-24T15:18:16-04:00

I agree with other posters. Place in positions of responsibility that aren't mission critical. Force him to "get up or get out".

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jul 24 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-07-24T15:20:03-04:00

Does he really want to be in the Navy? It sounds to me like he wants out and is either to stupid or just afraid to say so. I would document everything, build a separations package and let him go. Inaptitude, failure to adapt to the military environment, failure to progress satisfactorily in a required training program, lack of effort, psychological or stress-related symptoms, lack of self-discipline, or minor disciplinary infractions are all examples of grounds for early separation. If you don't, he may end up hurting himself, hurting someone else, or doing something to end up in the brig, followed by a discharge.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-07-24T15:23:17-04:00

Train the junior sailor in what needs to be done and counsel the sailor document the counseling(counseling chits). You may need to have another first with you too make sure everything is fair and too make sure that there is a witness to you trying to help your sailor. Keep your chief informed of the situation and get guidance from your chief as well. At some point if the sailor doesn't respond than the sailor may need too go to DRB and allow the chief mess too present to him/her their options based on their lack of performance and/or forgetfulness.
We have too try too save our junior guys and not just crush them but after you try, remember that we are in the military and we have too hold ourselves accountable and our juniors accountable as well.

Response by PO3 Andrew Krebs made Jul 24 at 2015 3:39 PM

2015-07-24T15:39:13-04:00

I always thought you'd get wrote up.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-07-24T15:46:22-04:00

KeelHaul him

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-07-24T15:54:15-04:00

Ha! been there...done that, PO1!
I've always found that there are two types of personnel who don't "get it"...one feels like they're underutilized, the other isn't a good fit for the service.

With the first type, I found that handing them more responsibility (not "busy work", but real challenges) did the trick...let 'em see what the "big picture" is and how much of a part they really play. Get that young sailor to WANT to be a Chief (or O)...and realize it doesn't take as long as it seems when you're 19 or 20.

The second type has a real issue. Sometimes, and I stress "sometimes", they can be rescued by a combination of involved leadership from both the SEL and O side, and the direct impact of their shipmates getting them to play ball...most times, they're a mast or three away from Civ-Corps.

I've seen some real hard-cases turn into amazing sailors...and I've seen some zeros string along until the inevitable.

Bottom line, I've always felt that it's premature to diagnose someone as a "lost cause" till you've tried everything. One of the most amazing things I observed was the skill the Goat Locker had in motivating young sailors (even some wearing officer rank). I was fortunate enough to have some of the best Chiefs in the Navy (in my opinion)...my last was pretty much a "Dad" to all of us in the Department, and well respected from the Wardroom to the Crew's Berthing.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-07-24T15:54:34-04:00

Isn't there a way to write them up? That would be the first step. If it continues then I would attempt to reduce them. The military is looking for people to get rid of. I think they may be a good candidate.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 4:01 PM

2015-07-24T16:01:48-04:00

Oh yeah...here's one for the books:

About a year into my first DIVO tour, we were having trouble in the Division with folks coming in a few minutes late while in the Yard. We'd finished a long deployment and were in the middle of a tough maintenance period...no one was having a good day.

Little Ensign Gillespie was all bent out o'shape and laid down the law stating that the next person coming in late might as well bring a sea bag, 'cause they weren't leaving for a week...

...guess who was five minutes late the following day!

I walked into formation carrying my sea bag and told the boys I was as good as my word...spent the next week living onboard.

Didn't have any more tardiness issues though.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 5:25 PM

2015-07-24T17:25:10-04:00

Keep him on duty until the job is done. Do a paper trail and if he keeps forgetting regs then you start having him brief the team on that reg.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 24 at 2015 5:32 PM

2015-07-24T17:32:56-04:00

Make that Sailor swab the decks.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 5:49 PM

2015-07-24T17:49:07-04:00

In the '80's we had the fan room aft of the control room on our sub. If you were summoned for a meeting in the fan room it was serious. "In the fan room, nobody can hear you scream." Now for my serious answer: Have him evaluated for underlying medical or psych issues, most notably depression. I have first-hand experience with the damaging effects of depression -- including the behavior exhibited by the youngster. If he's cleared, find a fan room ;-)

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jul 24 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-07-24T18:08:18-04:00

Document counseling, retraining, paperwork, then gone. takes time to do it right, but if he really doesn't want to be there, he can be helped out the door!

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jul 24 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-07-24T19:42:14-04:00

Keel Hauling was invented by the Navy, you mean you still don't do it?

Response by PO1 Michael Gensburger made Jul 24 at 2015 8:12 PM

2015-07-24T20:12:27-04:00

My first question is why haven't your other Petty Officers taken them aside and held a short talk to them? Because they should be taking care of problem sailors long before it becomes your problem.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 8:46 PM

2015-07-24T20:46:45-04:00

Document, document, document. Also talk to the sailor about why he is late. There is always something beneath the surface that is causing bad behavior. Then again maybe he just doesn't care. Either way you need to provide the sailor with the leadership and guidance they need to correct their bad behavior. I always tell troubled ones I am here to help them out...either help them out to correct their behavior/issue or help them out of the Air Force. The choice is theirs.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 9:09 PM

2015-07-24T21:09:12-04:00

I imagine I wouldn't hear much about it until a last-ditch effort to counsel the individual before sending them up to mast. A Sailor in your shoes, however, might rather be expected to take this on as a leadership challenge; find a way to fix or properly motivate the individual, while providing written documentation along the way outlining what you've tried and why. Some people aren't cut out for the Navy, but there's not much you can do if it's not documented.

I might use EMI, or find someone that Sailor is fond of or respects who could take them under their wing. There's only so much you can do to fix or control grown adults.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 9:51 PM

2015-07-24T21:51:42-04:00

I have to be the joker here:

Response by PO1 Kerry French made Jul 24 at 2015 11:02 PM

2015-07-24T23:02:29-04:00

EMI until he got it. That would include making him carry a wheel book to write things down and possibly a visit with the shrink... This is a very passive agressive trait.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 25 at 2015 4:49 AM

2015-07-25T04:49:12-04:00

Have you tried talking to the kid to see what's going on with him? Often times just a talk will get things worked out without having to result to counseling chits, report chits, DRB, etc.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2015 8:16 AM

2015-07-25T08:16:11-04:00

Vitamin deficiency? Might be worth a nutritionist visit. For a lot of young Sailors, (not most) good leadership resembles surrogate parenting in a lot of ways. What would you want done with your own child? What would you want done with you? A lot of responses have already mentioned more responsibility, a great idea. Maybe some positive reinforcement for everyone else doing the right thing? A couple things to remember no matter what you do. Although a little peer pressure can sometimes be effective, try not to punish everyone. And try not to punish yourself. Those can breed resentment.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2015 9:24 AM

2015-07-25T09:24:58-04:00

It depends on what regulations specifically he/she is disobeying. In terms of forgetfulness, give him/her a day planner and make it an accountable item. Ensure he/she records everything and that excuse will no longer be useful.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-07-25T14:18:58-04:00

Does the Navy still walk the plank? Or would that be too harsh?

Response by PO2 Jennifra Jones made Jul 25 at 2015 2:39 PM

2015-07-25T14:39:45-04:00

first I council them and if that doesn't work I have no choice but to put them on report. the military isn't for wishy washy, its to defend our nation. if they cant follow simple regs then how can you count on them in combat situation. I had to deal with this more as I came closer to retirement. it seemed that boot camp was being to easy on these kids than they were when I enlisted. we need back bone not baby sitting.

Response by PO3 Jason Hoberg made Jul 25 at 2015 6:32 PM

2015-07-25T18:32:52-04:00

Clean padeyes with a spoon for a while, fashion show, and room inspections to start. If it keeps going do papper work, if they refuse, do paper work. Eventually they will straighten up or go up for mast

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-07-26T10:45:29-04:00

If this sailor was a Seabee then he would be written up and put on report so that we can weed out this type of person.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jul 26 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-07-26T13:26:24-04:00

I had an Ensign flood a pump room during GQ one time, because he operated DC deck remotes. He forgot that the HTs/DCs were supposed to do that, not him. And he was a Naval Academy grad...

Bottom line, use your supervisory procedures. Counseling, page 13 notes, etc, until he either turns around or screws up so badly he ends up in Mast...

Good luck.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-07-26T19:34:41-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member First I would find out if there was more going on with the Sailor than the surface issues. Sometimes great Sailors loose their way if they have huge amounts of stress or something else going on in their personal life (e.g. going through a divorce or marital issues, sexual assaulted, financial issues, family members in the hospital or recently passed, newborn child or serious medical problems with family members, etc.) because these things can affect the overall well being and mindset of the Sailor.

Now if none of these things are a factor then I would start with formal documented counseling along with the recommendation of EMI (extra military instruction) to correct whatever deficiency the Sailor may be displaying. After a few of these counseling have been documented, if the Sailor is still having issues, I would move on to a DRB (disciplinary review board). If a DRB doesn't fix the issue then I would look at recommending the member for XOI (Executive Officer Inquiry) then Captain's Mast depending on the outcome under the grounds to be administratively separated due to a pattern of misconduct as well as Art. 92.

At my first command we had a member who was not able to meet the work requirements of a Petty Officer. The command began documenting these shortcomings and later used them separate the member. Anything is possible when things are documented properly.

Response by MSG(P) Rafael Aguilera made Jul 26 at 2015 10:20 PM

2015-07-26T22:20:18-04:00

Well back in the day SGT Aguilera would have a one on one 'smoking session' with a troop like that for the first few times. But coming from the Navy, I know it is not like that anymore; the Army has gone away from that more and more.
Make the Sailor carry a note book everywhere (make sure it is not one hat you can tear out pages, that way you can tell if the page is missing). Have him document all conversations and then brief you back what is expected and the time line to accomplish task in.
When it comes to regulations; I have found that Soldiers HATE writing - they would rather do push ups. So I have gone to report writing for infractions. The word count would be based on the seriousness obviously.

Response by SCPO Penny Douphinett made Jul 27 at 2015 3:46 AM

2015-07-27T03:46:50-04:00

Sometimes bad Sailors are created by bad leaders. I never believed in inheriting "problem children" but in giving each individual a clean slate. I often think of studies showing if a teacher expects her class to fail they will fail and I think the same can hold true for those who report to us. If we decide for whatever reason they are dead-weight, they will be. I agree with the others who have written each person should be given the opportunity, training and support to succeed. It is only then can we look to see if it is a failure of leadership or indeed an unmotivated, uncooperative Sailor who would be better served serving fries.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made Jul 27 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-07-27T14:52:04-04:00

Sit with them, find out what's the issues, not all people want to be a failure, maybe there's an underlying issue, could be medical. Yrs ago, we had a guy that kept falling asleep on watch, after many NJP's, I talked with him about his work day and sleep pattern, to make a long story short, he had severe obstructive sleep apnea.
Ask your guy if he wants a psych eval, that would tell you a lot. If all is well, then you can start admin sep procedures.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 6:24 PM

2015-07-27T18:24:40-04:00

I would put him in shooter shack to be a yard boy for a two star

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jul 27 at 2015 9:11 PM

2015-07-27T21:11:03-04:00

Verbal counseling, then written counseling if it continues with some Extra Military Instruction thrown in for good measure. If by the time Evals come along and behavior has not changed you have all the documentation for an adverse Eval and a way to legally not recommend this person for advancement. We all screwed up at one time or another during our military careers and I think almost every one of us had some leader who nudged us in the proper direction through their experience.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-07-27T21:21:52-04:00

What ifs are heart because it can vary according to the situation ; my general rule with the progressive discipline starting with oral counseling written reprimand Capt Mast etc. Find out if its motivational, attitude or aptitude problem sometimes people can have learning disabilities.

Response by PO3 Dennis Clarke made Aug 5 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-08-05T15:33:09-04:00

they will only ignore you for a very short time before the punishments gets very real for them when you keep documenting.

you can't be the bleeding heart and if there is a personal problem, they should bring it up to you - not you trying to figure out what their problem is. you'd spend too much time that you shouldn't be spending on and not your original job.

Response by PO3 Glenn Adair made Aug 7 at 2015 9:08 AM

2015-08-07T09:08:14-04:00

Place him/her on mail buoy watch.lol No, give that sailor the dirtiest jobs and not hit the rack until a job is competed. Then, "pink belly"lol

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-08-07T11:54:36-04:00

Sounds like the sea water induction valves are nasty and needs to be cleaned. I loved that one on the USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD 6). Worked wonders for discipline.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 12:12 AM

2015-08-10T00:12:51-04:00

I won't give any details of the person or things he did but you have to go through the steps. Make every effort to get the guy/girl to fix themselves. Verbal counseling, counseling chits, DRB, LOI, mast and if all else fails administrative separation. Some people just don't want to do their job because they expected different things when they signed up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-08-10T23:04:27-04:00

I know if he was one of my Junior Soldiers, he would have a battle buddy that tagged along with him everywhere. He would also carry a notebook and write every single order given to him by a superior in it. We cant "smoke" joes anymore, all we can do is take their time and counsel them.

Response by PO2 Gregory Howard made Nov 1 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-11-01T14:27:50-05:00

Attitude adjustment

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-12-01T10:45:02-05:00

1. "Back in the old navy": Mr Boot, meet Mr A$$.
2. Today's reality: EMI, EMI, EMI. Give him a trophy. If that doesn't work, see #1 above.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2016 10:29 AM

2016-08-04T10:29:27-04:00

There is no excuse for "forgetting" to do what you're told. That is a skill you learn within the first 10 minutes of boot camp and is continuously reinforced throughout the 8 week evolution. If a sailor doesn't understand something, or even attempts to accomplish a task without asking for help and can't, I will provide ample opportunities to demonstrate, guide, and enable them to handle the work. If I see they've been trained properly and are just refusing to do it or on purposely messing up in order to get out of a task or get overlooked, there will be many many counseling chits to document the whole process.

Response by PO1 Terry Irwin made May 16 at 2018 11:06 PM

2018-05-16T23:06:36-04:00

Give him extra crap jobs and let your Chain of Command know what's going on.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 17 at 2018 9:20 AM

2018-05-17T09:20:36-04:00

They would be sailing land after awhile form their couch