Whatever happened to respectful debate and discourse?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:15:08 -0400

Especially amongst servicemembers? I half expect vile, furious debate laced with name calling, put downs, and general degradation of another human being from the public - but wasn't expecting it here. Anyone, regardless of rank and education, loses my attention immediately when they sink to the level of degrading someone else in the name of "debate". It is in direct conflict of every single service's values and it's incredibly childish and unprofessional. Learn to listen, and to respect opposing viewpoints and beliefs while still remaining passionate about your own. And learn how to have a civil debate about opposing views instead of just yelling and putting down anyone who doesn't share your views. Let's be the professional, responsible adults that our morals and values teach us to be!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:24 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:24:30 -0400

I am going to help you with this. It is simple people don't want your opinion, they just want you to agree with there point of view

Response by Albert Bewersdorff made Jun 23 at 2016 4:27 PM

Albert Bewersdorff — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:27:06 -0400

I haven't observed any negative behavior like the ones you've described on RallyPoint yet , but I might not be involved enough. Compared to Facebook and other social media platforms, it seems to me that the active members on RallyPoint are respecting each other more. It's pretty outstanding, actually.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 23 at 2016 4:27 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:27:24 -0400

Guilty as charged. I tend to be respectful until someone is disrespectful of me. The problem seems to be that few have any facility for debate. They believe that repeating the same lie will make it true. That SHOUTING LOUDER will make something more compelling. (I simply refuse to read anything typed in SHOUTING text) They believe that their ideology should not be questioned or challenged. I could of course, simply refrain from participating. Well that's what I do when I realize that someone is ill equipped to carry on a respectful conversation. Sadly, I don't seem to be able to depart the arena without leaving a parting shot. It's a weakness. I beg forgiveness.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:29 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:29:09 -0400

Welcome to RallyPoint ma'am. One of the many reasons I don't participate as much as I used to. Enjoy!

Response by Col Dona Marie Iversen made Jun 23 at 2016 4:31 PM

Col Dona Marie Iversen — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:31:26 -0400

I agree, I will not engage him in further conversation.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:35 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:35:07 -0400

Captain-We'd all like to see more civility, but I always keep in mind that RP isn't the parade ground, or the wardroom, and if I comment...I'm open to the fullest extent and range of opinions held by active, reserve, and veterans. From my own perspective, the moderators do a decent job of keeping us all in our corners.

Response by SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. made Jun 23 at 2016 4:50 PM

SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:50:58 -0400

I wouldn't say it's less civil here, but it definitely has a less friendly military tone to it. After all, this a community of veterans and military members, there is a certain lack of decorum that seems to be present in the military. Cursing, dark humor, and direct sometimes uncaring statements are the norm of military service and it carries over to this forum as well. This might not be the case for what you're referencing, but if it is I doubt it's something that can be resolved.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 4:53 PM

Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:53:40 -0400

Even opposing viewpoints, however closely held, have kernels of opportunity for understanding. As masters graduates, it's sometime incumbent on us to reflect on the discussion at hand, before we add a response. True, sometimes it's hard to get past passion and vitriol, especially when we'd REALLY like to see that "sum b*" go up like an incendiary device.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jun 23 at 2016 4:55 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:55:49 -0400

Hear, Hear!

I've actually been surprised by how comparatively clean and civil the discourse is on Rally Point. However, there are a few people on the forum who dislike the whole idea of debate, so they blow off people they disagree with by resorting to name calling. When it happens, vote them down and if they persist, report them to a moderator.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 23 at 2016 5:00 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:00:55 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member "Whatever happened to respectful debate and discourse?"

Ma'am its the same as it always has been. Some choose to debate in a professional manner, others choose ad hominem attacks or outright personal attacks in negitive language, profanity or actual threats. RP audience is no difference that if you were to fill a stadium with an entire division of SM, all MOS, rank, walks of life.. and then tossed in polarizing subject..

Perhaps you perceve in your daily Army life to not see the same here, is because of the relatively limited groups of SM you may encounter at any one time in person...and those groups are largely selected by you to be around.. If you choose to hang around those that think like you well then the debate is often one sided.. If you choose to hang around peers that both think as you do and oppose ..you'll have debate but largely in a reasonable manner.

Walk in to the 82nd division on All American week when a few thousand are gathered for division review and strike up a conversation and debate on the antiquated and waste of resource, funding AirBorne deployment of troops are..and see if you get "respectful opposing viewpoints and beliefs while still remaining passionate about your own. All while having a civil debate about opposing views instead of just yelling and putting down anyone who doesn't share your views." from the demographic you choose to engage..

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 5:08 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:08:04 -0400

Couldn't agree more. I really want RallyPoint to be a great professional networking site to connect to fellow service members and veterans. Unfortunately, it's just become another forum for people to spout off their political views. I keep coming back hoping someone will raise the dialogue about issues that really matter. Instead, it's just plain babbling about issues that are politically driven or unimportant.

Response by Col Rebecca Lorraine made Jun 23 at 2016 5:24 PM

Col Rebecca Lorraine — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:24:56 -0400

It's is the modern day form of dueling. Behaviors associated with officers (officer and a gentleman), and enlisted are somewhat different I have been both and have noticed a distinction in interpersonal exchange. The anonymity of the Internet allows for people to be themselves and a certain disrespect is aimed at another person vice debating and expressing a view point about a subject area. I think the most frustrated and least powerful are the ones who feel empowered by their ability to be personal and nasty. But, there are Four Agreements you should remember when you are confronted by an objectional character. The main one is don't take it personally. It really isn't about you. It is about them. You have to read the book to understand the whole deal. My favorite movie is "Master and Commander". Everyone is so delightfully proper!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 5:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:28:26 -0400

Ask these folks.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Jun 23 at 2016 5:35 PM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:35:58 -0400

I'm going to be honest, I have yet to experience that kind of behavior on RallyPoint. So far all the discussions I've been a part of have all been fairly civil, including some of the most heated hot button topics like Presidential candidates.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 5:37 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:37:45 -0400

One of the problems I have seen, is the lack of restraint that seems to be present with prior military members. It's almost as if once they have new-found freedom to express their views, the gloves come off. After all, who are they accountable to?

Response by 1SG Christopher Verga made Jun 23 at 2016 5:43 PM

1SG Christopher Verga — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:43:27 -0400

Well said Ma'am!

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jun 23 at 2016 5:45 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:45:19 -0400

Ma'am DD214 happened. Seriously. You will have some who challenge you mentally to be better or make you think about your response. Those are the ones I fear being I only have one brain cell that wasn't taken back by CIF. But they are also the ones I want to see the most. Then you have those who base everything about you off your MOS. Doesn't matter if you saved 35 million dollars or people, the fact that you're not this, or you're not that, or you're a female trying to do a man's job, there is something wrong with you not them. I've gone off the reservation a few times and lost bearing, but normally I try and if I don't, there might be a reason for it. I've had moderators place their jump boots on my neck. Amazing how quick you change your tune. Lately politics is the sore spot for folks. You have folks complaining that RP leans heavily to the left...no it's far right....now they're deleting posts on certain candidates. It's a never ending cycle, and it'll be that way no matter where you go. Active Duty was the same minus the 214. Someone always thinks they're badder than you, a better person than you, a better leader than you based off the Silver Star they got in BCT, or where you went to basic. Shrug your shoulders and keep it moving. Personally I do pick on other MOS, but it's in jest. I don't care what you did or are. But it's the good ones that I like to see and read on here, and the reason I won't quit.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jun 23 at 2016 5:55 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:55:24 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member As some have mentioned, except with a recent incident where TSgt Hunter Logan took heat for something she said, I have not noted any extremes as you describe although I am sure you have in some manner, either to yourself or between others. I go through the threads deleting or ignoring those which don't interest me such as politics, religion, gun control - the usual ones - which can get the juices flowing. I would rather read, learn, and participate in military subjects I know something about, have had some experience, or a war-story to tell. Don't hesitate to give a thumbs-down to, block and report those you feel are going over the line. And don't you be discouraged into withdrawing your good comments, ideas, and insights. People do like to read reasoned views.

Response by LTC Jesse Edwards made Jun 23 at 2016 6:05 PM

LTC Jesse Edwards — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:05:47 -0400

I haven't noticed any poor behavior on RP; but, I'm a relative newcomer and don't participate generally.

Some public schools and many public universities are teaching Alinsky tactics and much of the political "leadership" sets a particularly poor example and has for a couple of decades.

http://www.bestofbeck.com/wp/activism/saul-alinskys-12-rules-for-radicals

Saul Alinsky's 12 Rules for Radicals | Best of Beck

Here is the complete list from Alinsky. * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources

Response by SSG Robert Smith made Jun 23 at 2016 6:22 PM

SSG Robert Smith — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:22:05 -0400

People are not tought to value anyone else's opinion if it doesn't match their own by their parents anymore.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jun 23 at 2016 6:44 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 18:44:22 -0400

ok Ma'am, there's always two (or three) sides to every hot topic. If we are discussing abortion for example, I consider it murder. Some consider it choice (but no choice for the infant). I'm pretty adamant about my abortion position. (The same scenario could apply to many topics discussed here.) I don't HAVE to respect your viewpoint on anything that violates my personal beliefs or Oath to The Constitution. I'm a FIRM believer that the cult referred to as islam is incompatible with Military and American values. Chances are nowadays, I'd be branded and ran out of the Service for those beliefs.

Response by Sgt Tom Cunnally made Jun 23 at 2016 7:19 PM

Sgt Tom Cunnally — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:19:07 -0400

Yes Ma'am thank you for this discussion

I started " Would you support a bill that prevents people on the "no fly" list from being able to purchase firearms?"
There were many comments both Pro and Con for the "No Fly" controversy but unfortunately a few RP members got too carried away over gun control. And began with insults, threats and etc that I ignored after being called a "troll & stupid' . But I think others may have been offended with this nonsense and left this discussion.

Since I started several controversial discussions & reading your comments; I should have stepped in and policed the name calling, put downs, and etc Those insults probably caused some to leave this discussion which overall had many great comments.

In the future when I start a discussion that has some more of this vitriol I will do a better job at policing it; instead of just staying on the sidelines as I did with this one.

We should have had a respectful debate and discourse. What happened was I left stay some comments that crossed the line of common decency and I will do my best to not let that happen again.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Jun 23 at 2016 8:45 PM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:45:27 -0400

Agree totally with you mam! I think that rank on this forum should be immaterial as my opinion is just the same as anyone's. Still I'm often astonished at some of the name calling and belittlement that sometimes occurs on this and other forums I frequent!

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jun 23 at 2016 9:08 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:08:58 -0400

The biggest problem I see with debates is that both parties want the other to agree with their view point but unfortunately it never works out. When passion and emotion is involved, it goes very bad. I stopped trying to convince people and started a different approach. We all grew up differently, some in different communities and upbringing. To make the other feel the same way as yourself would be a near impossible. So instead of trying to convince others to agree with your way of thinking, my route would be to state my opinion of why I believe something should be the way it is, then my experiences based on why I believe so. While doing this, I also try to understand others opinions and why they feel the way they do, and approach with a moderate solution or idea.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 10:42 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 22:42:45 -0400

Preach Captain!

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jun 24 at 2016 12:10 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:10:24 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, I'm sorry that this has been your experience. I have run into very few abusive posts, and those that I have seen were quickly removed by the moderators.

Personally, I just keep a list of flamers that fulminate rather than discuss, and I don't engage them any further; fortunately it is a short list. There is no point in poking a hornets’ nest.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jun 24 at 2016 1:50 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:50:51 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Captain, do not be reluctant to disagree or vote with your feet.

Response by SGT David T. made Jun 24 at 2016 12:44 PM

SGT David T. — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 12:44:43 -0400

Well said. I was always taught to attack the position not the person in a debate. Getting nasty towards the person isn't just disrespectful, it shows a weak position.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 27 at 2016 10:59 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:59:25 -0400

The military is merely a sample set of the bigger civilian population. Therefore we bring a lot of the same habits and tendencies to the table too.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 28 at 2016 6:13 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:13:54 -0400

Here Here!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 15 at 2018 5:37 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:37:57 -0500

Yes Ma'am!