When an E-4 calls me "hey" or "hey man" knowing that I am an officer, should I bother to correct him?

2021-06-25T22:25:12-04:00

This SPC calls me "hey man" outside work. I don't work with him directly; just happened to come across couple of times at work, and he did call me "sir". Not sure whether I should even bother to correct this SPC.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2021 11:02 PM

2021-06-25T23:02:40-04:00

Not sure what to do?! Is this even a real question? Did you miss class the day they taught leadership at OCS?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2021 11:10 PM

2021-06-25T23:10:38-04:00

Of course you correct him. Why would you not correct him?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2021 11:16 PM

2021-06-25T23:16:22-04:00

It doesn't matter if you work with him directly or not. If I know someone is an officer and I see them outside work, I still address them as sir or ma'am.

Response by MSgt Don VandeBogert made Jun 25 at 2021 11:21 PM

2021-06-25T23:21:11-04:00

Should have corrected this individual already.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 12:18 AM

2021-06-26T00:18:38-04:00

If you don't correct him then you are encouraging him to do the same thing with others. Bad actions that you don't correct in Soldiers become become bad habits in future leaders

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 12:43 AM

2021-06-26T00:43:37-04:00

The Army gets the soldiers that its leaders produce.
Unless he’s your brother or boyfriend, I’d recommend making the on the spot correction should the opportunity present itself again.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jun 26 at 2021 12:48 AM

2021-06-26T00:48:47-04:00

Uhm yeah. Before he flags down your BDE Commander as “dude” and he’s asking what goes on in your unit.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 1:00 AM

2021-06-26T01:00:13-04:00

Correct him, professionally.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 2:00 AM

2021-06-26T02:00:55-04:00

I don't like being put in this spot. It forces me to be the bad guy, but you are doing him a favor lighting him up verses a COL (or even his company CO, or 1SG).

The most aggressive thing I've done so far was (when a 1LT) me and another LT were walking from place to place and passed a SPC that belonged to another unit. Anyway....... he didn't acknowledge us and we were within arms length. I stood him dead in his tracks, didn't point out his discrepancy and waited for him to figure it out.

On the other side of that, I had my BC mention to me someone wearing our patch not salute him when he went through the gate. Luckily it could have been from another company, but still, it applied to a subordinate in his command be it my soldier or not.

*******
Favorite story about this sutff:
I'm USAR, we went to S Korea for an exercise and the active COL/CSM met with my incoming party to brief us (basically berate us to not step out of line while in country). Then a SGT in the audience giggled at something serious the CSM was talking about, and the CSM asked him what was so funny.

The SGT replied, and I quote, "I'm laughing at what you said man".

So I'm a 2LT (3 month TIG at this point) sitting in the audience of reservists, and prior NCO, and first thing I think is "oh god damn it, this whole brief now is going to take the whole afternoon".

Yep........... that SGT got lit the F up in an auditorium in front of all his friends by a CSM flanked by the CSM's COL (highest ranking person in the room).

********
So, remember, lighting up someone now while you are an LT could possibly save them from the story above.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 2:20 AM

2021-06-26T02:20:17-04:00

If you couldn't dare do this yourself as a prior NCO, why would you allow a SPC to do this with you?

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jun 26 at 2021 5:39 AM

2021-06-26T05:39:43-04:00

Do the right thing, even when nobody is watching

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jun 26 at 2021 7:02 AM

2021-06-26T07:02:01-04:00

One of the wisest things I was taught as an NCO.
If you ignore a failure to meet the standard, you have just set the new standard.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jun 26 at 2021 7:35 AM

2021-06-26T07:35:51-04:00

Sure it's an informal situation and he doesn't work for you, but proper respect for your commission isn't only about you, but all who have worked to gain the commission. You don't have to brace him against the wall, but a gentle reminder that sir is the appropriate greeting is in order.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 26 at 2021 9:56 AM

2021-06-26T09:56:10-04:00

LT, every time you walk past a deficiency you are equally at fault.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jun 26 at 2021 10:18 AM

2021-06-26T10:18:31-04:00

You don’t become a civilian when you take off the uniform. If the SP4 recognizes you as an officer he should show at least the minimum of military courtesy. An informal greeting including your rank or at least “sir” is appropriate in my opinion. You should speak with him about it while you’re both in uniform and on duty.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Jun 26 at 2021 10:19 AM

2021-06-26T10:19:00-04:00

I would probably nicely remind him I am always his superior officer regardless of whether or not in uniform. The real concern I would have is that it is hard for most people to always switch back and forth; consistency is better. I still call retired friends of higher rank sir or ma’am; help them develop good habits. I assume most senior enlisted would concur

Response by Cpl Bernard Bates made Jun 26 at 2021 10:23 AM

2021-06-26T10:23:34-04:00

In the Marine corp you would have corrected him. Your are still in the military even when you wear civilian cloths, Officers are leaders. Leaders are respected. I'm sure he is not a home town buddie so correct the person. When I was in the Marine Corp 59-63, on okinawa I worked in the Ammo Dump office so I knew the 2n Lt. I worked around him every day. We would talk about many things, he called me stud because I went on liberty every chance I got. I always called him Sir when we were joking around. I Think He respected me because I respected him. I was also in the Army and I saw NCO.s arguing with officers. The Army discipline was more lax. Semper Fi.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 10:27 AM

2021-06-26T10:27:32-04:00

I'm on a Space Force base and it seems like no one in the Air Force below E6 knows that they are supposed to salute Warrant Officers. Lucky for them I certainly don't care enough to pull them aside outside the PX. I get that maybe they don't know what my rank even is but I'd think that they would air on the side of caution when they see the bar. Maybe I'm a 1LT that has been in trouble a few times so the Army stamped holes in my bar.
When I was a SPC or SGT I saluted a Navy E4, maybe E6, as they have an eagle on their rank.

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made Jun 26 at 2021 11:15 AM

2021-06-26T11:15:14-04:00

If this SPC knows you, he/she should have already know how to address you properly. Even if he/she was trying too get your attention from behind. Should have been corrected on the spot!!

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jun 26 at 2021 11:32 AM

2021-06-26T11:32:51-04:00

Yes, he is wrong, make an example of him

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 1:12 PM

2021-06-26T13:12:04-04:00

I think some more context would go a long way here. "Outside work" could have a lot of implications. Civilian clothes? On or off post? Is this a soldier that you know enough that he should know your rank and name or were your previous encounters brief enough that he just recognizes your face? I know for soldiers I don't directly work with often when I see them outside of uniform their face looks familiar but I can't pin point where I know them from or remember their name.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 26 at 2021 1:26 PM

2021-06-26T13:26:01-04:00

Unless it was a matter of immediate personal safety or prevention of damage to equipment or supplies, You were tested... and failed. If it isn't about safety or damage, ignore his attempts to get your attention until he uses a proper form of address. If he uses the proper form of address, just say "That's better."

When it happens in the future, ignore his attempt to get you. If he gets so obnoxious that it cannot be ignored, but fails to use a proper form of address:
_Call him to attention, (by Rank and name if you know it.)
_Inform him of the proper forms of address when speaking to officers. Don't rip him a new one, just teach. [yes we all know he already knows better] Show him you understand his place and yours, and the difference between the two, and that you aren't one of the weak willed green LT's
_Ask him what he needs to say.

If you don't deal with it immediately, and the SPC is not within your Chain of Command, address it with your peer in his chain of command.

In the Marines, SNCO's and NCO's are the standard bearers for discipline, and the enforcers. Usually junior Marine officers don't get involved in matters of disciple and decorum, unless there is immediate danger to life or property; until the SNCO/NCO chain wants official disciplinary action.

If this ever happens with a soldier under your command, address it with your senior NCO or SNCO. Ask them to let you know when it has been addressed. If it happens again after the NCO's and SNCO's had their crack at it; call the entire chain between you and him to your presence. Then do the following

Lock them ALL at attention
Talk to the NCO's and SNCO's, NOT the SPC.

"There was a problem. I gave the NCO chain the opportunity to fix it. It isn't fixed. It appears SPC ______ does NOT respect your authority or doubts your will. If it happens again, with SPC _______, I will assume that I must be the standard bearer and enforcer for discipline. DISMISSED." I'm pretty sure the NCO's and SNCO's will make sure the learning points take root after that.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Jun 26 at 2021 2:58 PM

2021-06-26T14:58:48-04:00

So, would you have corrected his behavior if he worked for you? You are a Lt in the U.S. Army, the whole U.S. Army, not just in your work center. If this SPC hasn't figured out that the Customs of Service when addressing a senior are service wide, hell Armed Forces wide, then I think you missed a golden opportunity to increase the SPC's professional knowledge. Yours as well.

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made Jun 26 at 2021 3:35 PM

2021-06-26T15:35:52-04:00

Hell yes, light him up. It not only shows disrespect for your rank, but you as well. Before I retired, if I caught a soldier disrespecting an officer or NCO, he would be standing outside the barracks/head shed saluting each officer as they entered, opening the door, giving them the greeting of the day, same with NCOs, except with the salute or they could face the CO for blatant disrespect. Called extra curricular training.

Response by A1C Chris Pointer made Jun 26 at 2021 4:52 PM

2021-06-26T16:52:09-04:00

If you're both out of uniform, it really just comes down to what you yourself consider respectful based on the relationship.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Jun 26 at 2021 7:57 PM

2021-06-26T19:57:15-04:00

Hell yes you should correct him. He may not be required to respect the person wearing it but certainly the rank. I remember once when I was a Lance Corporal a Major said something to me and without thinking I responded, "Yeah Man!" I immediately correctly what I said but boy did I ever get my a$$ chewed out! He didn't write me up but threatened to if I ever did it to him or any officer and he saw it again. Thanks Major William Treadwell, you made me think before speaking to an officer again!

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jun 26 at 2021 8:03 PM

2021-06-26T20:03:23-04:00

Outside of work but was it on or off base? You could life the kid out or address him by his rank and perform a low key check on him.It would force him to double take and would help confirm his intentions. It really depends on whether he was giving you a hey man because he didn’t know who/what you are or he was pushing the envelope. I wouldn’t life him out in front of god and everyone unless you knew for a fact his intentions but you should certainly say something. The fact you are asking the question tells me you said nothing and later questioned your response. You should do something but there isn’t a reason to go full Motard about it

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 10:10 PM

2021-06-26T22:10:48-04:00

I think the context is everything here. At work, on post, in any kind of military environment he should be corrected and I feel you'd be doing him a huge favor. It's way better to be corrected by someone when there aren't potential career repercussions and I think most people would (eventually) be grateful for it. But if this person is just bumping in to you at the local Walmart? I think demanding someone recognize a rank out in the civilian world is incredibly foolish and shortsighted, I was taught to avoid any public displays of military behavior since it has the potential to make you a target.

The gray zone that many people who commented appear to have neglected or missed is that the SPC refers to you as "sir" at work, to me this implies no disrespect is intentionally taking place. The easiest course of action that nets you the best of all choices would be to bring your concerns to the SPC in question. You get to warn him of something that may get him in to trouble without actually "being the bad guy", as another officer wrote.

Response by PO1 Nelson Fox made Jun 26 at 2021 10:25 PM

2021-06-26T22:25:46-04:00

Yes

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2021 10:43 PM

2021-06-26T22:43:25-04:00

I say let them talk to you as they would at first, but then say “hey, it’s cool to talk to me outside of work. In fact, I’m really happy you feel comfortable enough to do that, but you still gotta call me ‘sir’, no worries though, have a good day.”

Yes you should correct them, but you can still let them breathe a bit

Response by SSG Stacy Carter made Jun 27 at 2021 4:43 AM

2021-06-27T04:43:00-04:00

Why is this even a question. Hell yes you correct that SPC. It does not matter that you are in town and out of uniform. If you do not want to create a scene then pull him/her off to the side and chew that ass..but for god sakes man do not let it go.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2021 6:08 AM

2021-06-27T06:08:16-04:00

Sir,
Yes, you correct the issue on the spot. You are doing him a disservice by allowing the behavior to continue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2021 8:32 AM

2021-06-27T08:32:26-04:00

Ok, the Big Army answer is make the correction.
That said, in my MOS we train with our officers and they are often subordinate to NCOs before they become a Team Leader, because of this it breeds a different relationship. With this in mind I will often refer to them by something more casual when working as a team. When other Soldiers are around it is Sir/Ma'am because their authority outside the team should not be in question even if they are not in charge because of their position on the team.

Response by MSG Rob Canarios made Jun 27 at 2021 10:23 AM

2021-06-27T10:23:25-04:00

I've seen this before. Solution: Use tact, pull him aside and discuss the issue. There's a place and time for "lighting up;" Professionalism is 24/7.

Response by TSgt Robert Hamilton made Jun 27 at 2021 11:03 AM

2021-06-27T11:03:01-04:00

Lt. J.R., during my full career i have never stepped out of order when around officers even after the base nco/officer clubs first combined, during off duty parties or any gatherings. It was Sir or by rank. i would say something to that SPC.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jun 27 at 2021 11:25 AM

2021-06-27T11:25:08-04:00

Remind him it is Hey L T.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Jun 27 at 2021 7:20 PM

2021-06-27T19:20:23-04:00

Yes, you should correct him. "Specialist, you can either call me lieutenant or sir." You don't have be be mean, just professional and return the favor by calling him by his rank. You're doing him a favor; at some point he's going to do that to the wrong officer and have a very bad day.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jun 27 at 2021 9:11 PM

2021-06-27T21:11:33-04:00

Depending where the, "outside work" was ... on or off base ... would determine how I'd handle such a casual attituded. AS AN NCO, THIS WOULD BE MY REACTION: ON base ... whether "outside work," or not, it would be on-the-spot; but casual. "Specialist, 'hey man,' isn't appropriate. Be careful who you use such a casual attitude with." Depending on his reaction (or her's?), would determine if any additional correction would be required.
OFF base ... I'd wait until we were back on the job and I'd say pretty much the same thing.
All my guys/gals knew that, "Hey Sarge," was appropriate; and fellow NCO's would be, "Hey Mac." I figure youthful casualness like that isn't necessarily disrespect, BUT id does require a subtle response. To be that casual WITH AN OFFICER though is asking for more of a comeback. In the Navy, an officer (Physician) was chewing my butt and I said, NOT intending it to be TO him, "Oh man ...." and wow ... my butt SITLL burns! LOL Taught me a good lesson about what you say in an officer's presence, or more specifically, TO an officer.

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Jun 27 at 2021 10:16 PM

2021-06-27T22:16:20-04:00

We know that "Sir" is the correct way to have addressed you. If it is a Very casual situation, I will sometimes address an officer as "L.T." or "Captain", to still acknowledge my respect for his position. If he wants me to formally address him "by the Book", then I just shift gears, comply, and carry on (but it's never been an issue).

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Jun 28 at 2021 6:04 AM

2021-06-28T06:04:11-04:00

If you have to respect his rank he should respect yours.

Response by Sgt Jesse Childers made Jun 28 at 2021 6:41 PM

2021-06-28T18:41:15-04:00

Definitely correct him for the sake of upholding the standards. How you do that is a matter of your leadership style. We would have gotten lit up on the spot for stuff like this. Stern discipline ensures a lasting correction that never needs to be repeated.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2021 9:56 PM

2021-06-28T21:56:53-04:00

Absolutely you should, however, YOU are in the position to use this as a teaching moment. YOU are the one who can either let it slide, which sets the new standard, or correct the issue, which solves multiple potential issues.

The Army brought me in as a SPC. Through my Basic and AIT I didn't really have contact with many officers. I honestly had no idea how to address someone out of uniform or away from work until I had a SNCO who helped me out and taught me. I have tremendous respect for them for all they taught me.

You can use this to not only teach the Soldier, but also earn their respect at the same time. If they fail to listen or learn, then light them up.

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jun 29 at 2021 2:15 PM

2021-06-29T14:15:52-04:00

You absolutely should correct him and if you wish he can address you anyway that you want him or her to. Rank has it's privilege and for him to reduce you to some slang greeting isn't showing resect for you or the uniform you wear each week. You don't have to reprimand him just point it out. It's you duty to explain it to him and his to follow. If I were to see you on the street and give you the greeting of the day like , "Good Morning Sir". You can return the greeting and say let's do away with the formal stuff while we're at the ballgame.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 30 at 2021 3:11 PM

2021-06-30T15:11:06-04:00

It's one thing if he does not know and just comes across you out in the world and does that. Totally another if he knows you are an officer and does it. He may be under the mistaken impression that once the duty day ends and the uniforms come off that you and he are just civilians kicking it. That is not the case. The only thing that changes is that he does not have to salute you when you are out of uniform and not on duty. He still has to show the proper courtesy. You are perfectly within rights to light him up for it. Better you do it than if a CSM or Col does it.

Response by Sgt Stan Dickerson made Jun 30 at 2021 6:53 PM

2021-06-30T18:53:29-04:00

THAT GAME IS ONLY PLAYED IN THE ARMY. YOU WOULD DIE WHERE YOU STOOD IN THE CORPS. YOUR BODY WOULD BE A TESTAMENT TO YOUR CRIME.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2021 12:14 AM

2021-07-01T00:14:19-04:00

Don’t allow a soldier to set standards, ran into my a doctor a CPT later MAJ when I was his medic at a bar. I called him sir and he kindly told me to leave it at work because he new I’d uphold the standards at all times however I’d still call him sir just because it was right. I highly respected the guy and he knew it and when I became an NCO I upheld the same standards, we aren’t equals that dude was literally a doctor!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2021 2:18 PM

2021-07-01T14:18:26-04:00

Good lord y'all are some power tripping senior's lol. If y'all are outside of work, who cares. You already said he calls you sir while you've seen him at work, so clearly this fella understands the concept of time and place. You should be happy he feels comfortable enough to even acknowledge you off base. Maybe you've made a positive impact on this dude and for you to want to fuss about something so tiny OFF base would make me feel like, "oh, he's one of those LTs". We've got more important things as war fighters than worrying about how someone didn't call you sir OFF base. For everyone saying, "wait until he calls the CO 'dude'" and other nonsense like that, throttle it back a little bit. That kind of nonsense is what drives people crazy, away from trust, and away from the military if it gets bad enough.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2021 10:45 AM

2021-07-02T10:45:16-04:00

Outside of work? Like in civilians off post? Or like in a parking lot after work? Details are important. If you live in the same apartment building sort of thing then yeah calling the Lt dude, bro, fuckface ect works. Don’t pretend that an officer rank makes one special outside of work. Now if it is even remotely in the wheel house of the military, on post, the commissary ect then sure make the correction. Hold to the appropriate work relationship as defined by the military.

Response by PO2 Ron Gunsolus made Jul 4 at 2021 8:08 AM

2021-07-04T08:08:32-04:00

No, dont' make a stink, he might be baiting you... its outside of work... let his unprofessionalism slide, but remember. Give him the stink eye

Response by SSG John Bamburg made Jul 5 at 2021 10:37 AM

2021-07-05T10:37:50-04:00

Is this ego driven or service driven.
This is the question you must ask yourself. My service dates are from 1978 to 1988. 1/75th
we, in our day would never address an infantry officer as man. unless we were already close friends and then only outside of the workplace.
This is a different world today

Response by SPC Rob Hunker made Jul 5 at 2021 7:34 PM

2021-07-05T19:34:44-04:00

This is unacceptable behavior on both the enlisted and the officer, and needs to be corrected immediately. When I served, that kind of disrespect to an officer would get you extra duty at a minimum, and would not be tolerated. Yes Sir, No Sir, excuse me Sir, would be the correct answer.

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Jul 6 at 2021 8:02 AM

2021-07-06T08:02:07-04:00

Absolutely. If no place else in society the hierarchical structure must always be conformed to in a military environment. That means strict adherence and recognition of rank. Without it, structure breaks down along with military efficiency and the quality of leadership.

Response by SSG Raul Alaniz made Jul 6 at 2021 6:56 PM

2021-07-06T18:56:39-04:00

Your dam right Sir, they will continue to do it later and then other enlisted will follow suit. That SPC should know better, and should be tighten up accordingly, also that SPC better be glad I wasn't there to do and on the spot correction, then privately speak the the LT and reinforce(positively) they should do the same.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jul 8 at 2021 3:38 PM

2021-07-08T15:38:06-04:00

First of all, you are a commissioned officer. Your rank has to be respected at all times. Then you to ensure that the SPC sees your rank clearly. Now calmly approach this SPC a d ask if he is calling for you or someone else. If no one else is in the area, begin to inform him/her the proper way to address any one in your military branch is, first by saying their rank, then last name if they should know you. They should never address any one by "hey man/hey." Do this as calmly as possible to avoid unwanted attention.

Response by SFC Dwight Beaver made Jul 11 at 2021 5:08 PM

2021-07-11T17:08:58-04:00

Darn right you should. But for peets sake why would you even need to ask this question.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2021 10:05 AM

2021-07-15T10:05:28-04:00

I would never tolerate such a thing. You are an officer 24/7. He's a soldier 24/7. I'm assuming you are on active duty.

Response by SrA John Monette made Jul 15 at 2021 12:41 PM

2021-07-15T12:41:36-04:00

absolutely. don't jump with both feet. but let him know that he needs to at least respect the rank. and set an example for him by addressing senior officers as sir every time

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made Jul 15 at 2021 3:00 PM

2021-07-15T15:00:13-04:00

Definitely correct him, you don't have to mean about it, but correct him. I still call officers and senior NCOs I have served under by their rank, it doesn't diminish me in any way. Today's young people are not always taught respect, but they should be. Just my two cents.

Response by LCpl Janie Robles made Jul 15 at 2021 3:49 PM

2021-07-15T15:49:31-04:00

This wouldn’t happen in the MC, we would get an ass chewing from hell.

Response by 1SG Ralph Hazlett made Jul 15 at 2021 3:55 PM

2021-07-15T15:55:23-04:00

Maybe the SP4 is just practicing OPSEC. You can have him call you by your first name...better than hey man.

Response by PO2 Clotilde Szelkowski made Jul 15 at 2021 8:42 PM

2021-07-15T20:42:26-04:00

Does it bother you when you are outside of work? If not, I really wouldn't be too worried about it. But it is totally up to you. I am a former E-5 and worked with a 1 star Admiral. When I was off duty, he asked me stop in at his office and say hello. He asked me to call him by his first name as he did the same with me. Outside of his office he was either Admiral, Sir or Doctor and I was Petty Officer. So use your best judgement and how you feel it affects the work environment.

Response by CW3 Steven Bailey made Jul 23 at 2021 11:37 PM

2021-07-23T23:37:08-04:00

On or off duty, in or out of uniform doesn’t matter respect should be there if one knows the other soldiers rank, all soldiers first name is rank….. end of story

Response by CW3 Steven Bailey made Jul 24 at 2021 12:00 AM

2021-07-24T00:00:02-04:00

Do your job LT correct the young soldier so as he learns the correct way to conduct himself and same goes when you speak to them, first name is rank. It always infuriated my when a ranking soldiers and officers said call them by their first name. You are never off duty and never use first names only causes trouble down the road for all concerned. I worked hard for every rank I got in 22 years of service and I gave and wanted in return respect from all my soldiers and officers I served with.

Response by CPT Eireanne Russ made Jul 26 at 2021 12:10 AM

2021-07-26T00:10:40-04:00

You just opened up every Lieutenant (O1 or O2) to this Specialists disrespect. And his response when they stand him up for it will be, "Well, 1LT Soandso doesn't have problem with it." Which will dig him an even deeper hole. AND he will tell all of his other barracks lawyer friends that they don't have to respect LTs when off duty...which is not a thing (while working for the US Military you are never truly off duty).

It is hard enough being a Lieutenant at your first duty station, don't make it any harder. An wise Colonel told us in ROTC in 1977 that it is easier to come in strict and set that example THEN relax just a bit, IF WARRANTED. Soldiers respect leaders when they understand the boundaries are clear and firm.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Jul 26 at 2021 9:36 AM

2021-07-26T09:36:50-04:00

Sir correct him immediately otherwise others will take notice and start doing it to, maintaining good order and discipline are necessary for good unit cohesion and respectful boundaries.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jul 26 at 2021 9:57 AM

2021-07-26T09:57:17-04:00

HELL YES...Don't let that slide into a slippery slope.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2021 2:49 PM

2021-07-26T14:49:00-04:00

No brainer. Nip it in the bud before it spreads. Lieutenant, or Sir works anywhere.

Response by SSG David Brandgard made Jul 27 at 2021 6:36 PM

2021-07-27T18:36:20-04:00

How is he saying this? With intended disrespect...like "were off duty and I can get away with this"? Or is he more of just casually saying "hey man, how's it going?" As if you are both just two people interacting. I'm all about proper customs and courtesy, but if he isn't disrespectful about it, and absolutely respectful on duty,, then I would take it with a grain of salt. That being said...as an E4 and below I never would have thought to call an no anything but Sgt as well as officers as sir. Granted that was a different and proper time. Even as an no, it was the same until or unless the individual introduced himself otherwise or stated that he didn't need the sir or Sgt when it was just us or out of uniform

Response by 1SG Ken Bedwell made Jul 27 at 2021 7:57 PM

2021-07-27T19:57:16-04:00

Yes. Military courtesy needs to be taught and enforced. It doesn't go away when off base.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Jul 30 at 2021 9:01 PM

2021-07-30T21:01:00-04:00

Absolutely! On duty or off, you are serving for twenty-three hours and fifty-eight minutes a day, the other two minutes are yours's. Did you not notice that the twenty-four hour clock commences at 00:01 Hrs., and ends at 23:59 Hrs. Why? This is the Military way, on either side of the pond, to say thank you go and rest for a couple of minutes!
Let this slide and next thing you know, its caught on and discipline is hard to regain. In that event, I have known 1LT's to request a transfer. They may get it, but some Commanders, myself included will not transfer you, this to make you step up to the plate, demonstrate the authority of your Commission, demonstrate your skills, and respect to and for the enlisted, but ensure your command position is recognized, and never compromised. This can only occur by remembering that respect is a two-way street. Yes, you will need to be corrective in a plethora of different situations, never-the-less, YOU have to lead from the front.
Counselling is important, my modus operandi of Counselling was to ensure that the soldier was marched in by a member of his/her sex, as is the case in disciplinary situations, otherwise, compromise is almost a given. Following the formalities, I would invite him/her to sit, and give them the benefit of my advise, expectations, and how the future is anticipated to go. After the individual had marched out my Junior Officer was drilled a new one! "What were you thinking, wasn't this Officer 001 at OCS!?" By the by, MI5 already took 007!
Naturally, this does not apply to disciplinary matters, in this case the soldier remains at attention. Never, but never tear into a soldier in front of his/her peers, that remains the prerogative of the DS. Never-the-less, command is restorable. I would tell my junior Officers; "Times may change, but standards must remain.", A mantra that guided me in many situations, both soldiering and in clinical practice.
Good luck 1LT Railey, I wish you well, now, get on parade, "Hum a little tune and remember; you volunteered." Go, and be the officer you chose to be.

Response by SPC Dennis Kregel made Jul 30 at 2021 10:42 PM

2021-07-30T22:42:52-04:00

Sir, ask yourself this question who is more wrong the soldier who made the error or the leader that saw the error, recognized it as an error yet failed to correct it?

I hope that answers your question sir.

Response by SPC James Drury made Jul 31 at 2021 1:48 PM

2021-07-31T13:48:49-04:00

Might depend on how progressive the CRT Commandment is!

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Jul 31 at 2021 3:18 PM

2021-07-31T15:18:05-04:00

If you allow professional status members of inferior rank address you (a commissioned officer) in familiar terms, you (the commissioned officer) is engaging in FRATERNIZATION, and can become subject to dismissal from the Armed Forces.

Response by TSgt Steve Jasper made Jul 31 at 2021 3:27 PM

2021-07-31T15:27:14-04:00

If you don't care why should he/she.

Response by TSgt Steve Jasper made Jul 31 at 2021 3:28 PM

2021-07-31T15:28:20-04:00

If you don't care, why should he/she?

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Jul 31 at 2021 3:30 PM

2021-07-31T15:30:31-04:00

I don't know when you began serving, but I entered on Oct. 19,1978 and my drill sergeants were soon to be retired. We were taught every greeting for every rank and the respective people and there was no deviation from the standards! Of course he needs to be corrected or taken back to the beginning!

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jul 31 at 2021 4:05 PM

2021-07-31T16:05:48-04:00

Yes you should.

Response by SGT Andrew Anderson made Jul 31 at 2021 5:01 PM

2021-07-31T17:01:13-04:00

I don't know how long ago this took place or if it's just a hypothetical question. I can only speak from my experience from 1963-1972 and most of that time in the Infantry or an Infantry Headquarters, it wouldn't happen. I can’t even imagine what would have happened to anyone who was that disrespectful of any officer

Response by COL Larry Crockett made Jul 31 at 2021 5:15 PM

2021-07-31T17:15:26-04:00

"outside of work" - interesting, never knew that existed. Of course you should correct him. You don't have to be an asshole about it but politely and professionally remind the E-4 that we all respect each other's rank and you expect to see that from him in the future.

Response by SFC James Corona made Jul 31 at 2021 8:03 PM

2021-07-31T20:03:09-04:00

Yes!

The E-4 had poor NCO Leadership or.......he's completly ignorant.

Response by PFC George Kear made Jul 31 at 2021 8:49 PM

2021-07-31T20:49:13-04:00

You should absolutely correct him, its all about respect.

Response by WO1 Dave Middleton made Jul 31 at 2021 8:56 PM

2021-07-31T20:56:39-04:00

Correct him, otherwise he will feel it’s ok in other situations in front of other officers away from work, perhaps your commanding officer.

Response by PO3 Kathy Getchey made Jul 31 at 2021 10:43 PM

2021-07-31T22:43:00-04:00

Familiarity is acceptable in the civilian sector, not in the military. If you are both active duty, then, correct him.

Response by SPC David Monk made Aug 1 at 2021 11:08 AM

2021-08-01T11:08:25-04:00

If both on active duty, you're both active duty whether wearing uniform or not. Protocol should be consistent at all times in the strictest sense. Having said that, there are other inter-personal relationships/friendships that could happen when 'off duty' that might change things.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2021 11:36 AM

2021-08-01T11:36:41-04:00

Should you correct him yes, however that doesn’t mean he needs to be lit up or degraded for this. A calm reminder of military customs will suffice. Then the SPC will remember you as that guy and not the asshole that nobody wants to come and talk to. I would also hope that when you have an NCO with you that he would immediately correct the issue before you had to.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA made Aug 1 at 2021 6:21 PM

2021-08-01T18:21:50-04:00

I would remind him of the appropriate protocol in a gentle way giving him the benefit of the doubt or accounting for his youth. The second time would be treated differently. Reminding him may save his skin if he assumes you letting it go gives him a pass to do it to others.

Response by CW3 Ed Heick made Aug 1 at 2021 7:34 PM

2021-08-01T19:34:04-04:00

Irregardless of where you see him, its a sign of respect not only for the person himself or herself, but of the rank you HAVE EARNED just like anyone else has. I would quietly take the individual to the side and correct the situation immediately. If you let it go you have failed that individual as a person, subordinate and yourself as a leader.

Response by COL Jim Ainslie made Aug 1 at 2021 9:29 PM

2021-08-01T21:29:21-04:00

You have to keep the standard. Have a talk with him. Explain the situation, if he knows enough to call you sir while in uniform, he will understand. I bowled with a friend who happened to be be an NCO. When we were bowling and in social non military occasions it was first name basis, however any time military were present (even in a social situation) I was Sir or Colonel. Not everyone can do that.

Response by Cpl Samuel Pope Sr made Aug 1 at 2021 11:51 PM

2021-08-01T23:51:02-04:00

USMC. I was an E-4, I had friend, a Full-Bird Col. We were on a first-name basis. Only, Only, Only- because he said we could When We Were Alone, on maneuvers, Out In The Middle Of The Mojave Desert. And Only after the day's activities were done and ONLY when we talked about religion and life. We both knew that using his first name Without his Express Permission was the epitome of disrespect on my part. Never Ever allow a subordinate to re-name you.

Response by CPO Lyle Brewer made Aug 2 at 2021 12:43 AM

2021-08-02T00:43:52-04:00

Unacceptable when either of the two is in uniform. If both are out of uniform (in civillian attire) still unacceptable. Sounds like Fraternization to have more than a brief conversation and casual meeting. Very few circumstances where Officers and Enlisted can interact socially on a familiar basis. All interactions should be respectful. Specialist (E-4) and an Officer (O-1, O-2,....) both need to go back to Boot Camp or Officer Candidate School, all of this was covered.

Response by PO2 Stephen Cline made Aug 2 at 2021 1:26 AM

2021-08-02T01:26:17-04:00

Obviously he did not know your name or rank and wanted to get your attention. Ask a higher ranking officer you know.

Response by Col Robert Lucania made Aug 2 at 2021 3:51 AM

2021-08-02T03:51:19-04:00

Absolutely and on the spot. By doing nothing you're telling them and everyone waiting this is acceptable behavior, setting the standard. Moral courage can be a rough situation; however, by setting standards you'll earn respect from the individual and those watching. Look at it this way, you're helping the individual by preventing future behavior where they may run across the wrong person ending their career so you're doing a good thing by educating them now.

Response by PFC Jeffrey Villarreal made Aug 2 at 2021 9:10 AM

2021-08-02T09:10:46-04:00

yes rank is earned that why you wear insignia

Response by PFC Jeffrey Villarreal made Aug 2 at 2021 9:11 AM

2021-08-02T09:11:59-04:00

yes rank is earned and to be respected during work hours if your off work that your choice

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Aug 2 at 2021 12:53 PM

2021-08-02T12:53:35-04:00

You might want to bother to correct that SPC.

Response by 1SG Robert Rush made Aug 2 at 2021 1:20 PM

2021-08-02T13:20:29-04:00

YES. Disrespect cannot be allowed in the military. And respect must be a two way street.

Response by SSG Brian Carpenter made Aug 2 at 2021 3:46 PM

2021-08-02T15:46:30-04:00

Let that slip by Sir and what does he ignore next? Sleeping on guard duty? Ignore an order during a firefight? The soldier you correct today could be the one that saves lives later. Not to sound off the wrong way but apparently your NCO's are failing you if you even asked this question. I would love to know if your 1SG oe CSM knew one of the Officers in the unit had to even ask this.

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Aug 2 at 2021 4:30 PM

2021-08-02T16:30:28-04:00

Really, Jeff ? "Hey man ?" Is the "work" you're describing active duty status, reserve unit, or what ? I'm former enlisted (OCS grad) and was taught as a "slick-sleeve" private to respect everyone. Quickly learned the ranking system, meaning DON'T salute SGTs. So, if he's an E4 and knows you're an officer, he's in that zone of "familiarization breeds contempt". If you continue to let his behavior go, in my opinion, both of you are in the wrong. Some of the guys (junior enlisted) in my tight-knit Armor unit once asked me what my first name was...ans: LT. They then pressed for a nickname...ans: Sir.

Response by SPC Barbara Wright made Aug 2 at 2021 5:02 PM

2021-08-02T17:02:38-04:00

Sir, you have to correct them because they could be testing you. They are not your equal in rank. You are the superior and deserve that respect. You earned it.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Aug 2 at 2021 7:46 PM

2021-08-02T19:46:04-04:00

If he knows you are a superior commissioned officer, and the STAFF NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER addresses you in FAMILIAR TERMS, then the STAFF NCO has just violated ARTICLE 89 of the UCMJ…refer the miscreant to the CSM and he can Jack this guy (or gal) up and have the Legal Admin Officer give a formal counseling entry into the SERVICE RECORD BOOK (SRB…or whatever it is called in the Army); counsel the SFC that if it happens again, there will be an ART 15 HEARING for NONJUDICIAL PUNISHMENT. If that’s not strong enough, refer to the JUDGE ADVOCATE to prepare an ART 32 Investigation and further Referal for GENERAL COURTS MARTIAL (GCM).

Use the UCMJ on the 2% that can’t be good to great Soldiers so that the remaining 98% get the message about disrespecting superior commissioned and noncommissioned officers.

Response by CPO Jay Powelson made Aug 2 at 2021 8:37 PM

2021-08-02T20:37:08-04:00

Don't get too friendly with him after hours or he will use it against you on duty.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made Aug 2 at 2021 10:00 PM

2021-08-02T22:00:57-04:00

Yes, you should. The words "Hey" or Hey man" are those one would use in an informal relationship or with one's peers. Those are not terms used when one is showing respect or deference to one entitled to such respect or deference based on rank or social status.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 2 at 2021 10:08 PM

2021-08-02T22:08:37-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I still recall LT Moose Giving me clear direction the he was not, ‘Moose’. Simple, extremely effective and correct it did not offend me.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Aug 2 at 2021 10:20 PM

2021-08-02T22:20:02-04:00

Were you in uniform? Did he call you with your back turned [he couldn't see your rank]? How close was he when he called out? With that being said, discuss it with the SPC. Explain the situation and let the chip fall where they may.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2021 10:38 PM

2021-08-02T22:38:10-04:00

Always make corrections in cases like this. If it happens more than once, contact his supervisor as well.

Response by SSG Robert Velasco made Aug 2 at 2021 10:54 PM

2021-08-02T22:54:16-04:00

I once filled a Sgt.slot for an Armor unit at Ft. Knox for a month. The e-4 thought he could have his way with me,an E-6,I locked him up and the 1st sgt took offense to that! The next day at the motor pool the same troop was assigned to my track for preventive maintenance and he didn't know how to use a TM manual! I was taken aback at the disrespect I would go through the time I was attached to F- troop, so to speak!

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Aug 3 at 2021 1:54 AM

2021-08-03T01:54:56-04:00

Hell yes! you do know what an Officer is don't you? act like one!

Response by CPT Pstrick Stephens made Aug 3 at 2021 11:16 AM

2021-08-03T11:16:37-04:00

He shuld be dressed down

Response by SGT Mark Vandolah made Aug 3 at 2021 12:11 PM

2021-08-03T12:11:43-04:00

Your a soldier 24/7 and as such military customs and courtesies should be used in and out of uniform. Do you have to salute while in civilian attire? No. But a soldier should always address a officer as sir. Behavior such as this becomes accepted behavior and then normal behavior and therefore deteriorates the standard.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2021 12:16 PM

2021-08-03T12:16:00-04:00

If you're both out off uniform and off duty- no. You'll just make yourself out to be one of those asshat officers.
If either one or both of you are in uniform and/or on duty, then correcting the Specialist is the correct thing to do.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Aug 3 at 2021 1:59 PM

2021-08-03T13:59:07-04:00

if you do not know the individual on a personal level and are in his chain of concern or he knows you are an officer, then yes.. you should correct him, but if you met them and got to know them on the outside, then there is no reason for you to pull the rank issue.. if he's professional, he'll know that while in uniform he needs to address you properly..

Response by SPC Joseph Morin made Aug 3 at 2021 7:38 PM

2021-08-03T19:38:21-04:00

This is definitly something that should NEVER go ignored and without correction. Worst comes to worst you could either correct him yourself, or get in contact with whoever his platoon sergeant is. Disrespect of that caliber is never ok.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Aug 3 at 2021 8:18 PM

2021-08-03T20:18:14-04:00

When you allow it, you become an E-2 instead of an O-2... your choice.

Response by PO3 John Priest made Aug 3 at 2021 10:26 PM

2021-08-03T22:26:17-04:00

Abso-fracking-lutely the SPC needs to be corrected. If he's doing it to you, he's doing it to other officers. Most disrespectful.

I've been out of the service for well over 22 years and even I still Sir/Ma'am, even if the Supervisor/Boss/Leader/Exec is younger than me. And yes, I still call those Officers (in Uniform) Sir even as a Veteran.

Response by CSM John Benkert made Aug 3 at 2021 10:52 PM

2021-08-03T22:52:41-04:00

As a CSM I often corrected soldiers (including Officers) that soldiers are to be addressed or referred to by their rank not pay grade (I.e SPC or CPL not E-4)

Response by SSgt Dan Deal made Aug 3 at 2021 10:58 PM

2021-08-03T22:58:51-04:00

Yes! Not like he's a senior NOC and even they wouldn't do something like that. It's a sign of disrespect.

Response by Cpl David Halbisen made Aug 3 at 2021 11:30 PM

2021-08-03T23:30:00-04:00

Been a long time since I was active duty, but I don't think the standards have changed, a simple sir or Lt. or Lt. Rxxxx would be in order if greeting.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Aug 4 at 2021 1:49 AM

2021-08-04T01:49:44-04:00

So when I was stationed on the Holland in Guam in the 90s, I worked in the NDT lab. We were one of the few shops that was allowed a fridge. We were mostly on a first name basis with each other, since we were all senior petty officers. Sometimes, even with one or two of the CPOs assigned to our shop. So one day we were all sitting around after working hours (like when we were underway watching TV in the shop after working hours iirc) and one of the other E-5s says to the CPO (E-7) in the shop, "Hey Holmes, grab me a Coke while you're up?" and he said this JUST as our division officer walked in, and the CPO in question didn't see the division officer and only saw him when he came back out of the dark room (where the fridge was) with said Coke for the person junior to him.

We all got counselled for this.

If I knew 100% someone was an officer (like from my command) even on liberty (or leave or any time, really) while I was on active duty? He was always "sir" and she was always "ma'am". That first answer about failing to meet standards means setting new ones? Totally on target. But this made me think of that story, so I figured I'd share.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2021 9:33 AM

2021-08-04T09:33:19-04:00

I’ll be honest: off duty, when you are both outside of uniform, you are just another person. Yelling at him off duty will do nothing but make you a joke to him and the entirety of the scuttlebutt it spreads to.

If he calls you like that in uniform even once, then yes light him up.

Response by SSG Michael Visconti made Aug 4 at 2021 10:35 AM

2021-08-04T10:35:21-04:00

Always called an officer sir in uniform or off duty. There have only been a few times where officers I worked directly with would "break the ice" so to speak and I was allowed to call them by first name. Of course, I would be going to war with these ladies or gentlemen. If you're a soldier, you're a soldier 24/7. The customs and courtesies still apply. Even if the officer doesn't enforce it, the subordinate soldier should already have the discipline to address the officer properly.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made Aug 4 at 2021 1:23 PM

2021-08-04T13:23:13-04:00

If you have to ask, if the soldiers conduct is inappropriate, then maybe it's time for you to resign and move on..

Response by GySgt Marc Dickerson made Aug 4 at 2021 3:44 PM

2021-08-04T15:44:25-04:00

Are you an idiot? If you don't know the answer to this question, you do not deserve the metal on your shoulders. It is your duty and responsibility to correct this person. If not, YOU are derelict in your duties.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2021 4:15 PM

2021-08-04T16:15:38-04:00

Out side of work isnt really a big deal in my opinion. You are a person just like he is. I work with officers and warrants on a daily. At work and in uniform its very respectful. There is a time and place for everything. Humanize yourself to him and he will respect you more. The biggest issue i see in the army is the Separation of officers and enlisted. Once you realize the people that work for you(enlisted) will take care of you if you take care of them, there will never be a problem with respect and trust. You stick your neck out for him he will do everything in his power to keep you from getting yelled at. He isn't a robot and neither are you Sir! Who knows one day he might be your platoon SGT or even 1SG.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Aug 4 at 2021 4:34 PM

2021-08-04T16:34:58-04:00

Yes. Read SFC O'Mally.

Response by SP6 Walter Tune made Aug 4 at 2021 6:54 PM

2021-08-04T18:54:33-04:00

Only if you are both in uniform.

Response by Sgt David Johns made Aug 4 at 2021 8:48 PM

2021-08-04T20:48:07-04:00

Well yes! Absolutely

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2021 9:06 PM

2021-08-04T21:06:58-04:00

Yes you should. That is disrespectful

Response by SFC Michael W. made Aug 4 at 2021 11:19 PM

2021-08-04T23:19:42-04:00

You need to "check fire" on the SPC, simple as that. Squash it now before it becomes a new standard.

Response by SSG Lillian Dobson made Aug 5 at 2021 12:25 AM

2021-08-05T00:25:35-04:00

If you want to maintain your respect & position, correct the E-4

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2021 6:46 AM

2021-08-05T06:46:23-04:00

Perception is everything. Folks will believe that you guys are homies (which you're not) and that he has the hoook up with you (which he doesnt). My advice is give him point of correction. You don't have to rip his ass, but he does need to know who he's addressing whether on or off duty. Just my thoughts......

Response by CW2 Lee Jones made Aug 5 at 2021 7:28 AM

2021-08-05T07:28:10-04:00

As a veteran officer, I can tell you the days that drove into soldiers attention to detail. That includes following regulations and set guidelines. I know that today's world is different, but rules and regulations are to be followed. Remember you set the example, if you allow this to continue, it will become the norm. These men and women will follow you into combat one day, set the standard and expectations now before that day comes.

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Aug 5 at 2021 11:52 AM

2021-08-05T11:52:33-04:00

I’m surprised at the question. OF COURSE you correct that individual and bring him to attention while you are doing it!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2021 2:22 PM

2021-08-05T14:22:20-04:00

Short answer, yes you should. The SPC probably thinks because it’s off duty it’s ok. Nothing wrong with correcting the issue so he doesn’t do it to someone who will blow it out of proportion. Never pass up a “teachable moment”.

Response by SGT Ronald Mitchell made Aug 5 at 2021 3:22 PM

2021-08-05T15:22:00-04:00

You would not be in the wrong to, "Check that azz immediately!" It irks me to the bone when subordinates disrespect rank or ranking staff member! If you teach him/her immediately/ correctly, there is no, I didn't know, if it ever happens again. Whooah!!

Response by SGM Francis Brzyski made Aug 5 at 2021 4:17 PM

2021-08-05T16:17:50-04:00

Is this even a question? A soldier is a soldier 24/7; in or out of uniform. Respect is a value that a soldier needs to live by. However, if he does not respect you he still is required to show respect to your rank. Maybe you should discuss this with the First Sergeant. Ask him how he would handle an E4 calling him Hey, man?
SGM Francis J Brzyski (ret)

Response by SGM Francis Brzyski made Aug 5 at 2021 4:24 PM

2021-08-05T16:24:00-04:00

A soldier is a soldier 24/7 and Army values need to be lived at all times. If an E4 does not respect an officer he still is required to show respect to higher rank. maybe you should have a talk with the First Sergeant and ask him how he would handle being addressed as "Hey, man" from an E4.
SGM (ret) Francis J Brzyski
1st Cavalry, III Corps, Vietnam

Response by CPT Edward Newton made Aug 5 at 2021 7:34 PM

2021-08-05T19:34:19-04:00

If still on active duty, correct him. If not. respond , "Yo". As a lieutenant, don't get too puffy.

Response by Maj Phillip Leslie made Aug 5 at 2021 10:35 PM

2021-08-05T22:35:43-04:00

If he knew you were an officer, then he was disrespectful and You are responsible for correcting the situation. If you can not do that, you should resign. I was enlisted to E7 and commissioned to O5.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2021 11:36 PM

2021-08-05T23:36:38-04:00

Yes Period. End of Sentence.

Response by SSG Wilber Broadway made Aug 6 at 2021 1:10 PM

2021-08-06T13:10:45-04:00

%100 What SFC O’Mally said. If you let it “slide” you’re saying that’s ok when it’s not and you have too become part of the issue.

Response by 1SG Marion "Ron" C. made Aug 6 at 2021 3:50 PM

2021-08-06T15:50:36-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Sir, it appears that this SPC needs a little light correction. I state light because he may not realize it is inappropriate to address an officer whether on-duty or off-duty by anything other than sir. Others have mentioned it in their response, but I will add it again, there is no such thing as being "off-duty". When you raise your hand, repeat the oath, and sign on the line, you are a Solder 24/7. One thing I am consistently "seeing" and reading about on different military type websites is how military professionalism has become almost extinct. This could be from various reasons, but allowing this type of behavior to continue will only exacerbate the issue and could lead to problems for him, and you, down the road. Look at it this way, he is transferred to your unit and you are the unit commander, and he is standing in front of your desk pending non-judicial punishment for an infraction, how would you handle it - professionally I would assume. This situation is no different. Likewise, the scenario I provided could very well happen. The "casual" attitude will lead to an awkward situation during that type of scenario. He may think because you both seem to be on "casual" terms, his punishment for the infraction will be that you will only apply a company grade Art 15 with everything suspended, or maybe just a letter of reprimand. Just a couple of things for you to ponder while you decide your best course of action for this situation. Notice that although I have been retired since early 2008, I still called you sir.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Aug 6 at 2021 4:24 PM

2021-08-06T16:24:48-04:00

You must set this soldier straight. As he will most likely do it to other’s. Be the example to him. Be the leader that you are and should be…

Response by 1stSgt Ken Holcomb made Aug 6 at 2021 8:35 PM

2021-08-06T20:35:26-04:00

Hey! If you're asking on here, maybe you shouldn't be an officer. Go ask your unit 1stSgt.

Response by MSgt Phil "PIMP" Freeman made Aug 6 at 2021 9:57 PM

2021-08-06T21:57:23-04:00

Nah, don’t correct him because you are a pussy for even asking the question. Matter of fact, turn in your shit and go back home to momma and daddy

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2021 11:54 PM

2021-08-06T23:54:54-04:00

I don’t understand the problem. This SPC calls me hey man outside work. I’m not calling anyone, even my BC, sir outside of work in casual conversation. You want me to call you sir then don’t talk to me around town.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2021 2:45 AM

2021-08-07T02:45:17-04:00

I’m a recruiter and I don’t allow my civilian DEP members to call me that.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Aug 7 at 2021 3:34 AM

2021-08-07T03:34:33-04:00

ABSOLUTELY!

Response by SGT J M Porters made Aug 7 at 2021 10:46 AM

2021-08-07T10:46:44-04:00

Where were you? Were you in uniform? How do you know this person? Command has always taught us to consider all the facts before issuing a command.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Aug 7 at 2021 7:11 PM

2021-08-07T19:11:54-04:00

As the officer, you're assumed to be the leader. Lead by example and you will gain some respect. Get the counsel of your NCOs first and you will gain their respect. Make corrections where you have to to maintain correct standards, and make sure the SPC's chain of command is kept in the loop. The chain of command will respect you as long as they're informed.

I'm not saying you have to act on NCO counsel, but good officers always improve when they at least listen.

Response by LTJG Paul Ng made Aug 7 at 2021 7:29 PM

2021-08-07T19:29:48-04:00

In a heartbeat you correct him, both for protocol and for his future.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2021 8:26 PM

2021-08-07T20:26:09-04:00

No. Ignore it. Everyone makes mistakes. But if you detect some serious sarcasm or outright disrespect (which is not what I'm reading here), find out who it is (you mentioned seeing this person before), engage his company/battery/troop/squandron commander directly. Things like this don't make themselves up; the CO will know something's up and engage accordingly.
Other than that, just chalk it up to an enlisted member who doesn't understand basic military discipline and respect due their superiors.

Response by CPT William Pearson made Aug 8 at 2021 1:55 AM

2021-08-08T01:55:15-04:00

The biggest room of all is the room for improvement. Explain to him that in the military we have standard operating procedures and being respectful of one’s rank is military discipline.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2021 2:31 PM

2021-08-08T14:31:55-04:00

LT, YES! Absolutely you should correct them! Leaders should always maintain proper military bearing and discipline. To address any superior as “hey man” is flat out disrespect and disregard for military courtesy. Remember if the laugh at you in peace, they will laugh at you in war. Step on them next time

Response by SPC Carrie Cates made Aug 8 at 2021 3:31 PM

2021-08-08T15:31:56-04:00

There is no such thing as “outside work” in the military, Sir.

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Aug 8 at 2021 3:56 PM

2021-08-08T15:56:25-04:00

The "hey man" to me shows a lack of respect and should be corrected, just do not be a "hard ass" about correcting this behavior.

Response by SGT David Shanley Jr. made Aug 8 at 2021 6:26 PM

2021-08-08T18:26:39-04:00

Honestly Sir, I think if the discussion is just a friendly discussion it might be fine. However, the line should still be addressed with their NCO. If the discussion is about work or anything work related, nope the soldier should address you as sir/ma'am. I also must say I may have said "man" when having friendly discussions with my commander. But I also am very aware of when we are just conversating to pass the time versus discussing business. In addition him telling me their is a time and place, and I tend to do well in regards to both of those. As I would never respond with "yea man so..." in room full of other soldiers either. I think it depends on the setting, also I think that level of comfortability can exists while still having respect for customs and courtesies. In doing so it can also create a healthier work environment if discipline and comfortability can be achieved. I also believe this may help soldiers be more forthcoming with issues if they feel more relaxed.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Aug 8 at 2021 6:38 PM

2021-08-08T18:38:31-04:00

Shouldn't let it pass. However, the approach you take could mark you as a leader or just an LT pulling rank.

Response by SSG David Gardner made Aug 8 at 2021 9:07 PM

2021-08-08T21:07:04-04:00

find an NCO to do what should be done, since you lack of leadership is clearly showing - WTF happen to the Military that we even have situations like this -

Response by SFC Carlos Cruz made Aug 8 at 2021 11:07 PM

2021-08-08T23:07:14-04:00

Regardless where you see each other courtesy and respect must always be upfront..

Never ignorant the failure when you have the authority to correct it and bring it

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2021 4:53 AM

2021-08-09T04:53:44-04:00

Correct him and I guest in my day 1979 1982 at Ft Riley, Ks. BN level school of the soldier afternoon and week end duty, insubornation required Article 15 and 15 days CCF correction custody facility! But that was oldschool. New school soldier, well correction on the spot and leave along until he do it again!

Response by SMSgt James Rorie made Aug 9 at 2021 7:56 PM

2021-08-09T19:56:30-04:00

Regardless of wherever you run across this SPC, he should have enough respect to address you as Sir. I think by him not doing so outside of the work area is a total lack of respect.
James R SMSgt, USAF (Ret).

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Aug 10 at 2021 2:59 PM

2021-08-10T14:59:39-04:00

If it happens again, stick out your hand and say "Hey SPC, have you met LT (insert name here)? He is a commissioned officer and should be addressed as such."

Response by MSG Albert Grounds made Aug 15 at 2021 10:26 PM

2021-08-15T22:26:40-04:00

This is difficult to answer. I will say if it is at work, you address the officer with "Sir". If you are not acquainted with the officer other than occasional meetings outside the workplace, it is still "Sir". If you are friends outside the workplace, I see no issue with addressing the officer by name or "hey man". I had a unique assignment where everyone inside the workplace called each other by name rather than addressing rank. We worked in a highly sensitive area. Outside of the area, we addressed each other by our rank. My immediate supervisor and commander both called me Bud (nickname). We are all retired now but the friendship remains. Your decision 1LT Jeff R. but if it was me, I would nicely tell the SPC it is proper to address you by your rank and leave it at that.

Response by CPL Sophia Coleman made Aug 16 at 2021 11:11 AM

2021-08-16T11:11:32-04:00

Definitely correct him. When I was a wee private, clueless and lost I saluted my LT in the PX; he corrected me and I appreciated that he didn't let me continue to look like a fool saluting indoors. I remember when I was a cadet it was my first day at my new unit and I said, "Hey. Do you know where...." and the LT that I said it to was livid. She assumed that I was saying "Hey you", but in reality I was saying "Hey" as in hello or hi. I explained myself and she explained why she flipped out and corrected me and I appreciated her for it. Correct him and let him know that he is not your peer inside or outside of work. Don't let him get comfortable with speaking to you that way.

Response by SFC William Allen made Aug 16 at 2021 4:10 PM

2021-08-16T16:10:52-04:00

Should you bother to correct him? Does a duck quack? Hell yes- you should nip it in the bud, Respect for rank is paramount! I allowed things to slide as an E-6 (I am a pretty informal guy) and paid for it as an E-7. Never again even though I am retired.

Response by 1LT Howard Foss made Aug 16 at 2021 5:31 PM

2021-08-16T17:31:10-04:00

back in the good old days, it would go like this," specialist, any name, how are you doing today ? with my chrome bar showing". while i was in the field, while working with my men, we always addressed "rank-last name". as an engineer type, i would be in with my men (I WOULD GET IN TROUBLE FOR THIS).
you have to earn respect, it doesn't come in a cracker jack box.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 29 at 2021 9:14 AM

2021-08-29T09:14:46-04:00

I just got this post and as a old Soldier best i can come up with is LT take your bar off give it to the commander ask him to return it to you when you are ready for it.
It is your chance and your Job to set and/or support the standard. Use that on the spot correction the first time the 2nd time contact his COC and have them deal with Him.JMTC

Response by PO2 Chad Thompson-Smith made Aug 29 at 2021 9:18 AM

2021-08-29T09:18:05-04:00

The fact you are struggling with this answer should be an assurance you are officer material and would fall on your face if you worked for a living. All you “sirs” lose all respect once you start expecting respect instead of trying to earn it.

Response by PO2 Chad Thompson-Smith made Aug 29 at 2021 9:22 AM

2021-08-29T09:22:23-04:00

Look at all the asshole blow hard officers answering this question and ask yourself do you really want to grow up to be a respected douche bag???? How about you turn they “hey” into a positive rather than asking permission to be a typical asshole officer and do the expected berating..

Response by PO2 Chad Thompson-Smith made Aug 29 at 2021 9:24 AM

2021-08-29T09:24:09-04:00

Can’t wait to see all the down votes I get from the cryhards

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Aug 29 at 2021 10:20 PM

2021-08-29T22:20:07-04:00

This really depends on the soldier, where you are, who is around, and if it bothers you, personally, or not.

If it bothers you personally, then yes most certainly, you are an officer and your grade suggest a certain amount of respect.

If you are in "mixed" company, both officer and enlisted, let an NCO handle it. If you do it, it may come off as petty.

But you should also take into consideration the soldier himself. I am a leadership challenge, and those NCO's who knew me, and understood me, knew:

Give Ison a job, and get the fuck out of his way. If i needed help I would ask for it, if I didn't I would just do what was asked to the best of my ability, and normally I could do it with ZERO supervision. Those who did not know me would often look at my demeanor, including my lack of using things like grade and sir, when dealing with both NCO's and Officers as disrespectful. To people who think that rank makes you "superior" then this is how they see the world. But, for some of us, we know we are as smart as or smarter than those who are in charge, and when we argue with you, we are not being disrespectful, we are trying to show you how fucking dumb you are being, and a good leader will ALWAYS take a second look to see if there is something they missed.

As far as the little things like sir and stuff, in a good relationship rank is relevant only for responsibility, I have worked hand in hand with aircrews, and I have always been able to maintain my professionalism in "public" but in private all of the aircrews, including my XO and CO, knew that if I had an issue it was never personal, it was always professional, it was always about the work. And if I did not use sir, or ones grade, when addressing the issue it was not form lack of respect but from a need to make sure the aircrews were safe.

I have told off a Lt Commander (O-4) for trying to bully me on the flight deck.

I have held the hands of nugget pilots who were so afraid of the flight deck they had urinated on themselves.

I have yelled at petty officers who out ranked the shit out of me, including chiefs, for violating safety issues on the flight deck.

My favorite one, was a 2nd class petty officer (E-5), me an E-3, who tried to seal a BNC connector with chewing gum. That guy ended up losing a stripe.

Response by LCpl William Harrison made Aug 31 at 2021 12:44 PM

2021-08-31T12:44:44-04:00

What the hell has happened in the military that this is even happening? Even as junior enlisted I knew better. Alot in 52years I guess. This really sounds more like comand failure than anything. The civilian culture is infiltrating the military more than is healthy. I found the same thing in construction and trucking. A bunch of undisciplined idiots running around. Maybe I'm just weird but the Corps just never left me..

Response by LCpl William Harrison made Aug 31 at 2021 12:47 PM

2021-08-31T12:47:45-04:00

That was command. The old brain didn't keep up.

Response by SGT Bobby Pope made Sep 4 at 2021 8:48 PM

2021-09-04T20:48:21-04:00

By all means, correct him!! Could save him a butt chewing later.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2021 9:59 PM

2021-09-04T21:59:39-04:00

For myself, I know who to address as Sir/Ma'am. Outside of Base, I may address someone from my workspace as their name just to say Hi. Normally never ran into officers but i don't see a reason as to address someone as Sir or Caption so-so as long as both of us are in civies.

Again this is how i feel. I will never go to Major John Doe from a different Unit in civies and say "what's up dude?" Because it could be reflected back onto my military career, but i will address them as Mr.Doe or Sir as i know them from Public Affairs but they don't know me, 1 of 5000 Airmen.

So in short, to each of their Own.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2021 11:24 AM

2021-09-05T11:24:15-04:00

Times have changed! I was a young Corporal back in 1982 walking between two barracks. A Lt was talking a squad through patrol maneuvers/training by one of them and I was 20 yards away. I tried being inconspicuous to avoid interrupting and the Lt challenged me on not saluting him from 20 yards.

We would never have thought to be disrespectful like what you describe because correction was typically swift.

Start lighting them up. Education is not necessary since they went to boot camp. Doesn’t matter what they think of you if they’ve lost their discipline.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Sep 5 at 2021 11:43 AM

2021-09-05T11:43:01-04:00

1) If you are worried about being called by your rank or Sir/ Ma’am, you’ve already lost…
2) Two, this country has gone to hell in a hand-basket with respect - PERIOD!
3) Rank, or no rank, an individual should simply offer a cordial Sir/Ma’am, as a simple sign of respect to “anyone” in passing daily. Just because you have dawned a uniform, or taken it off, shouldn’t mean you lose respect by offering, before it is obtained.
4) Wearing a uniform simply reaffirms those rules applied in and taught in school for line 3)!
5) If you have questions to any of the aforementioned line items, it’s probably time you seek work elsewhere!

V/R,
Jim

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Sep 5 at 2021 11:44 AM

2021-09-05T11:44:53-04:00

As a senior NCO I would have lit into him like a bad smell on a turd. Never let a subordinate get away with disrespect like that. As an Officer you should never allow it. you don't have to lite into him just remind him of his position and warn him that further actions of this type will be dealt with harshly and follow through.

Response by CWO4 Josh Henley made Sep 5 at 2021 1:32 PM

2021-09-05T13:32:13-04:00

A reminder is definitely required in a situation such as this, given the significant difference in rank. However, the question is how to correct the "oversight" in such a way, that the message is clear, but mutual respect is maintained. One way to do that would be to put the SPC in your shoes, by quietly saying something like, "SPC, you worked hard for your rank and position, so I'm sure you wouldn't like being called just a grunt, now would you? Well So did I, and 'Hey man' bothers me. Please grant me the same respect I give to you." If that doesn't nip that slip of protocol in the bud, you can then (and should), lay it on the line.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Sep 5 at 2021 1:32 PM

2021-09-05T13:32:51-04:00

Just my opinion, but civilian clothes outside of work the Yes Sir/No Sir is a bit much. But he should address you by your rank not name and especially not a 'hey man'.

Response by CPT Endre Barath made Sep 5 at 2021 3:27 PM

2021-09-05T15:27:57-04:00

If you have to ask ...... hmm.... you should know better just my two cents.... and you are a 1LT???

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Sep 5 at 2021 5:45 PM

2021-09-05T17:45:40-04:00

I'm thinking 'like a roman candle'.....then again, you can quasi lock him up...put him at ease - being out of uniform does not change the 'rank' situation - and since he knows, well, it goes without saying he should be reminded - roman candle wise or gently, its a matter of choice. I simply think what would I do. Even as an LTC, when I came up on someone I KNEW is senior to me, I simply do what I was taught...I render respect and whip it out. Besides.....how hard it is really?

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Sep 5 at 2021 6:53 PM

2021-09-05T18:53:16-04:00

Jeff, I suspect that both of you might have been caught off guard. It happens. Did you know this E4? Did you know what unit this E4 was in? I suspect that the E4 did not intentionally intend disrespect "he did call me 'sir'." I guess the E4 was trying to self-correct on the fly. Good on the E4 if that was the case.

Next time this happens I would recommend a friendly chat. I do mean friendly. Something like "Hey, I looked up the regs. The address 'hey man' is not recommended. Thought you should know. I won't get too upset, but if I were a Field Grade, or your NCOIC or Shirt were made aware of this, well I won't guarantee you'll have a good day. Look, just a friendly suggestion, here, but 'Good day, Lieutenant' or even 'Hi, Lieutenant' or even just 'Hi, sir.' will be a better way to greet me, or any officer, from now on."

If the E4 is smart, his reply will be a cheery "Yes, sir!" and maybe even "Thank you, sir!" (just as cheerfully). And then you will get that kind of greeting from then on and you can commend the E4 for a good change in attitude. However, if it continues, then go see about a chat with the E4's supervisor, NCOIC, or First Sgt. Simply relate the actual events, no finger pointing or accusations. Then ask if that behavior meets with that unit's standards. That supervisor, NCOIC, or First Sgt. will take it from there.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Sep 5 at 2021 8:00 PM

2021-09-05T20:00:08-04:00

You should always make the correction in a non demeaning manner

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made Sep 5 at 2021 8:09 PM

2021-09-05T20:09:25-04:00

Have you considered that maybe he didn't know how to address you 8n the circumstance? Are you so wrapped up on your RANK that you need acknowledgement 24/7? Get over yourself. Your rank only applies in the course of your JOB.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2021 9:12 PM

2021-09-05T21:12:42-04:00

hell yeah, and you dont have to be an asshole about it either, but yes

Response by LCpl Toby Studabaker made Sep 5 at 2021 9:21 PM

2021-09-05T21:21:17-04:00

As an enlisted man I say yes you do correct him, respect is still deserved no matter whether you're in uniform or not.

Response by LT Frank Ferritto made Sep 5 at 2021 9:25 PM

2021-09-05T21:25:52-04:00

With all due respect 1LT, if you do not know the answer to this question then turn in your bars.

Response by SSG Dale London made Sep 5 at 2021 10:21 PM

2021-09-05T22:21:47-04:00

LT, insubordination is a violation of the UCMJ for a reason. I won't belabor the point but if you don't correct him, he's going to be insolent with the wrong officer and end up with a whole lot of hurt. You aren't doing him or the army any favors by ignoring this and it isn't your job to be his buddy. He dosen't have to like you but he sure as hell better respect you.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Sep 5 at 2021 11:32 PM

2021-09-05T23:32:46-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member In 1963/4, LT Moose was very direct. “I am LT Moose to you Sergeant!” No offense taken nor meant!

Response by SMSgt Clayton Cortinas made Sep 6 at 2021 12:39 AM

2021-09-06T00:39:43-04:00

Officers refusing or failing to demand the respect their rank is due was often a problem I had prior to my retirement. I would even have general officers act embarrassed and tell my troops that it wasn't necessary to call the room to attention or otherwise acknowledge their presence. I would find myself having to correct these actions and explain to a high ranking officer that if their authority was to be ignored, what did this mean to mine or other senior NCOs? I agree you are definitely setting a new (lower) standard. Wake up instead of being woke!

Response by SN Jay Perry made Sep 6 at 2021 1:46 AM

2021-09-06T01:46:14-04:00

I was a USN tin can sailor (and we had somewhat less formal rules than larger ships, attitude adjustments were NOT part of the chain of command solution), if I had talked to an NCO with the word 'man' I could count on a 'counseling session' SOON! As you said, you change the line then that line changes PERMANENTLY. The last E-6 I worked for was 6'3" and over 275lbs (and was a member of the shipboard '300 club (as in bench-press that much))' if he laid hands on you, YOU KNEW IT!!! Sounds like you need to have a word with this young man, and if....then TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM!!!

Response by SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr made Sep 6 at 2021 6:44 AM

2021-09-06T06:44:21-04:00

Customs and Courtesies have declined significantly since my years. I would have been chewed up and spite out for this. You disrespected this Spc by NOT dressing him down and now he'll continue disrespecting you and others until corrected. His excuse will be Lt Railey didn't act this way.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Sep 6 at 2021 7:15 AM

2021-09-06T07:15:41-04:00

SFC O'Mally answered the negligence on your part correctly. It is your duty to correct a wrong!
Unfortunately we have to many examples of personnel looking the other way.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Sep 6 at 2021 7:36 AM

2021-09-06T07:36:36-04:00

you square his sorry ass away Sir! Your a LT you earned it. And your never off duty that's BS

Response by PO1 Wayne Sasser made Sep 6 at 2021 7:46 AM

2021-09-06T07:46:59-04:00

Seems to me it's a situational reaction. He apparently demonstrates good behavior in appropos places. If you see him in social situations what's the problem. I would discuss the matter with him, explain that in formal situations it is not appropriated to be less formal, in spite of your familiarity. If he disrepeects the situation, correct him for the sake of standardized address.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 10:19 AM

2021-09-06T10:19:35-04:00

Sir,
It has absolutely no bearing if he works for you directly, or indirectly Sir. It has no bearing if it is in, or out of uniform Sir. Though absolutely none of my business, do you refer to your superiors by "hey man" while outside of work, or in the office? The fact that you allowed this one time while in uniform is a failure on your part Sir. You have set the tone for anyone, and everyone that you allowed to see that happen the first time without doing anything about it. If you did say something about it the first time, and allowed it to occur several times after the fact is another failure on your part Sir. If you allow this type of insubordination, what else is being neglected?

Please feel free to reach out to me Sir. This recently retired U.S. Navy Master Chief would be more than happy to provide some pointers on how to set the tone on day one.

Response by TSgt Carl Johnson made Sep 6 at 2021 1:49 PM

2021-09-06T13:49:36-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member I don't know if this issue has been resolved, but I hope that it has. That said; it seems that this SPC likes you, and shows respect in uniform, so I doubt that he intended to disrespect you. Seeing you out in public, and not working directly with you, he may have realized he knew you, but forgot that you were an officer. Of course that is pure speculation on my part, but I saw it happen when I was a young A1C (E3).

You want to correct this sort of thing early, though. My advice is to approach him and remind him that you are an officer, and that he needs to remember that even when you are in civvies proper protocol is required. I wouldn't lock him up the first time. I would be polite, but firm, as though you are giving him instruction. You would be doing him a favor.

Good luck in your career, I hope that you become a successful leader. Seek advice from senior officers and NCO's who exhibit the effective leadership qualities that you admire. Become the leader that you would want to follow, not a boss that just gives orders, and you will go far. The officers that I served with that did these things became generals - and darned good ones!

Response by SGT Leonard Frank made Sep 6 at 2021 2:21 PM

2021-09-06T14:21:04-04:00

I have to say if you do work in the military and in the same building I would have given him the EYE but let it go. If it happens again I would definitely say something.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 4:55 PM

2021-09-06T16:55:06-04:00

No. Collect your check and move on.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Sep 6 at 2021 4:58 PM

2021-09-06T16:58:06-04:00

Yes, you need to make a correction. It's not a "just when we're at work" kind of thing.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Sep 6 at 2021 5:35 PM

2021-09-06T17:35:48-04:00

HEY MAN. F#&$k no !!!. You a Officer not a lower enlisted Joe, Like him.
Regardless of infractions correction's most be made.
Naturally the degree of the infarction should reflect the degree of of the correction's.

I never did that to any one with a higher rank than me.
Even I was friends with the Higher NCO or Officer.
The most casual greeting. Was hi Boss. Not hey man.
This is what is wrong at the base level no respect for the simplest of protocol or rank.
The other side of this is NCO'S ,And some officers do not hold the line because they are friends or they are afraid of the Political bullshit.
Regardless of the causes. Rules and regulations are there for a reason.
No order in the ranks.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Sep 6 at 2021 9:45 PM

2021-09-06T21:45:46-04:00

Ya Think?!?!?!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2021 11:27 PM

2021-09-06T23:27:44-04:00

It is considered improper for an E-4 to be that casual with an officer he recognizes and someday may end up working for.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Sep 7 at 2021 11:20 AM

2021-09-07T11:20:50-04:00

On the spot correction. (You don't have to be a jerk about it.) Then let his 1SG know. If the 1SG knows, it will never happen again.

Response by CPL Adam Schoenwald made Sep 7 at 2021 11:47 AM

2021-09-07T11:47:30-04:00

Sir, I have been Retired for 15 years, and still to this day, Retired or Active, I call an Officer Sir/Ma'am even here on RP. It's respectful to do so, it's earned. If I'm asked to relax that because we are personal friends, I do, but only in private. In public function, it's back to standard. This is a moment for you to shine and be a leader and not a dick. Correct him firmly with your style, he obviously looks up to you, but he must be reminded you and him are not "homies on the block". By doing this quickly and without drama you will create a future leader in him as well.

Response by SSgt Michael Anderson made Sep 7 at 2021 1:00 PM

2021-09-07T13:00:40-04:00

Although I functioned as a Air Force SSgt, I have the utmost respect for people who have attained officer or high enlisted ranks! When I got off of active duty, I went to work for the Federal Government (Department of Defense). My immediate supervisor was a retired Chief Master Sergeant (E-9) that I used to work with at Andrews AFB. I called him "Chief" until he told me that he preferred that we be on a first name basis. It is important to recognize people who worked hard for--and earned-- their ranks!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2021 1:10 PM

2021-09-07T13:10:35-04:00

Well, I must ask: Did you do something to give this SPC the idea that this was okay? If so, then no, you should say nothing. If not, then yes correct him.
I have had both senior officers and CSMs introduce themselves to me by their first names. And in truth, some of my seniors have developed into close friends.
If the SPC is speaking to you like this, its likely that he just likes you, maybe even thinks you are a friend, especially since at work he calls you "sir."

Response by MSgt Stephen Kaiser made Sep 7 at 2021 2:48 PM

2021-09-07T14:48:14-04:00

SFC O'Malley hit the nail on the head!!

Having served in several communities in the USN and AFRC, your approach should fit the culture of the military component, BUT it must not allow a change of standards. You do a disservice when you fail to uphold traditional methods of respect, recognition, regimentation. If I were correcting a a reserve seabee I might share the reasoning or history or examples of when this failure had an extreme adverse effect, or how e'sprit de corps has strengthened and made more effective organizations. On the other hand if I was addressing anyone from the AFRC who wasn't SF or a pararescueman, I'd tailor the correction to something they could understand (as military examples are likely foreign to the USAF) and clearly state my expectations of future performance/ramifications of future personal failures.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 7 at 2021 3:49 PM

2021-09-07T15:49:29-04:00

Out of uniform and off duty, an enlisted man should still identify you as "Sir" or "Lt. Name" if they know you. Just remind them of that in private. I take it he was trying to be "friendly" and meant no disrespect, but you need to remind such people , military decorum is observed at all times*. Sure they don't have to salute you, out of uniform and off-duty but you are still a "Sir/Officer" and should be recognized as such to/by them , those are the rules/regs.

*(well almost all times)-there are exceptions in private situations;), I would advise to stay out of such things as an officer, as that is fraternization. Don't party, gangbang, drink, snort crank/meth, have sex with, or drink, hang out at concerts, etc. with your subordinates- again military decorum and regs should be observed at all times, while you're in. "Sir"
:)

Response by SPC Allen Werth made Sep 7 at 2021 3:59 PM

2021-09-07T15:59:54-04:00

If I can be so bold as to offer advise, this SPC believes in on the spot corrections when needed. I work as a Parole Officer and what I see is a series of seaming small but nevertheless poor decisions, that lead to larger problems. Just as you do not have to be disagreeable to disagree, but I would think a correction would have needed to take place.

Response by LCpl Odell Taylor made Sep 7 at 2021 6:40 PM

2021-09-07T18:40:02-04:00

Was either of you in uniform? That surely would have a bearing. It also would depend on whether you were fraternizing which is against regulations, or was when I was serving. With no more information than you have provided, I can but offer an opinion. I am of the opinion the individual either resents authority, whether consciously or subconsciously, or views you as an equal or possibly a friend. However, I believe neither is acceptable. "SIR" is appropriate...you earned it!...But...then again...I'm merely a MARINE, SIR!!

Response by SFC James Welch made Sep 7 at 2021 10:19 PM

2021-09-07T22:19:36-04:00

You have a duty to correct him!

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Sep 8 at 2021 12:01 AM

2021-09-08T00:01:14-04:00

It has been my experience coming up from E2 to recently retiring as a major that young officers tend to focus to much on 'being an officer' and not enough with leadership or their job. Rather than correct this soldier directly, respond with their rank and name every time. How are you dressed, how are you conducting your business, and representing the officer corps? Is the soldier truly wrong or is there something in the situation that makes them believe speaking to you like this is acceptable? Everything you do from the moment you awake to the moment TAPs is played people are looking at you. This soldier is in the wrong but why?

Response by PFC Andrew "Tommy" M. made Sep 8 at 2021 4:14 AM

2021-09-08T04:14:43-04:00

I know this may be a crazy idea but have you thought of actually talking to the E-4, you don't have to even be nasty about it, he may have gotten the idea that you were ok with being spoken to in a less than formal manner and not know it bothers you. I remember a LT in our Co. that when we were out in public that preferred for us to call them by their name as long as it was away from others in our chain of command .

Response by MAJ Gerald Richards made Sep 8 at 2021 10:34 AM

2021-09-08T10:34:50-04:00

1LT Ralley, As an officer in the US Army, you have a responsibility to the E-4 as well as to the good order and discipline of the army. As SFC O’Mally said, ignore a failure to meet the standard sets a new and lower standard. I would have a stern but friendly talk with the soldier while explaining the breech of the courtesy and why it is important to uphold.

Response by PO2 Stephen Brinkley (Scott) made Sep 8 at 2021 1:18 PM

2021-09-08T13:18:04-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, in my opinion, if it doesn't bother you, why make a big deal out of it. Are you civilian clothes when the "hey man" comments have been made? If they are and he doesn't know you, then I would let it go. If it's happening while you are in uniform, totally different approach.

Response by SPC Stephen Lynch made Sep 10 at 2021 8:44 PM

2021-09-10T20:44:50-04:00

In any environment an on the spot 'tactful' correction should be made .

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2021 10:36 PM

2021-09-10T22:36:20-04:00

You said it, outside work.

Response by SSG Edward Rogers made Sep 11 at 2021 6:34 AM

2021-09-11T06:34:21-04:00

You need to take this young individual to his NCOIC and discuss what has happened, I believe that the NCOIC would and should be responsible for this soldiers retraining as to proper decorum when addressing an officer, and most NCO's would see that the standard is followed. No, NCO will tolerate disrespect from his/her soldiers.

Response by SSG Edward Rogers made Sep 11 at 2021 6:39 AM

2021-09-11T06:39:47-04:00

And as for the "Outside work." Unless It's been changed and I didn't know it. Regulations say that if said individual recognizes you as an officer in or out of uniform he/she is to address you as such and show the respect due to an officer. (Or any other rank for that matter.)

Response by CPT William Fahey made Sep 11 at 2021 10:18 AM

2021-09-11T10:18:31-04:00

I would have immediately been in is face and remind him how he was trained and - assuming he still gets paid for his service - tell him next time that happens I'll have a conversation with his chain of command that might negatively affect his future.

Response by CPT William Fahey made Sep 11 at 2021 10:20 AM

2021-09-11T10:20:30-04:00

I would have immediately been in his face and - assuming he still served in some capacity - remind him how he was trained. Then I would tell him if it happens again I'd have a conversation with is chain of command that might negatively affect his future.

Response by CSM Walter Miller made Sep 11 at 2021 12:51 PM

2021-09-11T12:51:53-04:00

He or she should be stopped immediately and corrected. It's a total sign of disrespect.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2021 4:42 PM

2021-09-11T16:42:56-04:00

Is this in person or via text messaging? If in person it should 100% be corrected via text it's up to you if it really bothers you or not.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2021 11:37 AM

2021-09-12T11:37:47-04:00

I would. That is very disrespectful if he knew you were an officer. You don’t have to scream or threaten disciplinary action. Just explain why his action was inappropriate

Response by CWO2 M J made Sep 12 at 2021 9:46 PM

2021-09-12T21:46:17-04:00

LT,
I’m going to try to say this without being insulting. If you need to be told that you need to enforce military standards on your subordinates maybe the military is not for you. As a Lance Corporal in the Marines, I was never allowed to call a corporal, sergeant, or above “man”, let alone a commissioned officer. When I was a chief warrant officer I would never allow any behavior like that, wether it was directed at me, my staff NCOs or NCOs.

Many of us that are recently retired see this as a major problem. Discipline is deteriorating at an alarming rate. Congress and the executive branches treat the armed forces as a test bed for woke BS and social programs. The military exists for one purpose: win wars. Anything else is a dereliction of our duty to our country. The disrespect young service members show toward seniors feeds into the dysfunction being forced onto the armed services. Don’t allow this ever, be the officer you were selected to be and discipline soldiers who are out of line. Force the SNCOs and officers around you to do the same. Be the generation that decides it is time to return to the core fundamentals that make our forces feared worldwide, which has rapidly deteriorated this year.

I wish you the best in your career. Don’t take sh$t from anyone, stand up for what you believe.

Response by MAJ Janice Campbell. BSN, RN, CNOR made Sep 13 at 2021 12:53 AM

2021-09-13T00:53:03-04:00

I would reply something like, Spec 4, how may I help you? If concept didn'( connect, go from there.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Sep 13 at 2021 10:08 AM

2021-09-13T10:08:07-04:00

Resign your commission if you don't know the answer. And do you not have a good NCO you trust to ask a question like this?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2021 10:23 AM

2021-09-13T10:23:39-04:00

You should correct him politely. There's no reason to go full DS on him, but say "Good morning, how are you today? I don't want to come off as crass but I'm uncomfortable with this level of familiarity between us. Please refer to me by Sir or Rank/Last Name. Thanks for understanding."

Response by SPC James Ashmore made Sep 13 at 2021 1:52 PM

2021-09-13T13:52:04-04:00

YES!!!
I was an E-4 when I got out in 1992. While I was in, I was part of a group that worked with the base chaplain. He was an easygoing & friendly guy. One time I was on post in uniform walking & saw him likewise out in uniform. He was with with another officer. I lost my track for a moment & started to approach him in a friendly manner & was sticking my hand out to shake his hand. I IMMEDIATELY saw the reaction of the other office & self-corrected for a standard salute with greeting. Later on I apologized to him about it. It never happened again when I saw him out. He didn't seem too upset about it, but I was embarrassed & apologized repeatedly.

Response by Col Scott Enold made Sep 13 at 2021 6:07 PM

2021-09-13T18:07:49-04:00

I'm an old AF SAC guy. We lived, trained, survived and got fired by strict standards. BL: You're an officer. If the troop has seen you in uniform...s/he knows who you are. Not enforcing the standards means you accept a new and possibly lower standard. You can quietly, respectfully, w/out embarrassing anyone fix this immediately.

Response by SCPO Tony Rice made Sep 14 at 2021 12:57 PM

2021-09-14T12:57:35-04:00

You check them on the spot. Not a friendly reminder but like you grabbed him by the stacking swivels . T. D. Rice HMCS USN Ret.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2021 7:00 PM

2021-09-14T19:00:23-04:00

Depends on what you want him to think of you.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Sep 15 at 2021 11:54 AM

2021-09-15T11:54:54-04:00

If you are in uniform and on post, yes, he should know better.

Response by COL John Power made Sep 16 at 2021 3:02 PM

2021-09-16T15:02:24-04:00

Absolutely must correct him. Consider it a teachable moment to make him a better soldier. Failing to do so will result in him thinking that kind of familiarity is the norm. And someone else will jump down his throat for such behavior. So consider you doing him a favor. You don't need to jump on his case, you don't need to punish him. Address him as "Specialist" when you call him over, perhaps put him at Attention and then At Ease, and educate him as to the "rules" of conduct. Not difficult or confrontational.

Response by PO1 Jacob VanderBrink made Sep 17 at 2021 6:39 PM

2021-09-17T18:39:00-04:00

Yes you should…immediately!

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Sep 22 at 2021 1:21 PM

2021-09-22T13:21:38-04:00

LT, I need to pick myself from the deck. Not too sure how things go in your organization, but I can assure you that if that E-4 were observed by a Chief Petty Officer that E-4's life would become a bucket of s--t. Who do they think they are, your drinking buddy? Somebody needs to lock their heel and square them away. When I was a Seaman Nobody if I had done something like that the 1st Class Boatswain would have taken me to the Bo'sun Hole for an education. The next time some Yahoo does that to you I recommend you lock their heels and put the fear of God in them. This Woke stuff is getting out of hand.

Response by SGT Ralph McClain made Nov 1 at 2021 7:31 AM

2021-11-01T07:31:48-04:00

You are an officer in the United States army sir no sir not hey man

Response by GySgt Jack Wallace made Nov 1 at 2021 9:16 AM

2021-11-01T09:16:06-04:00

The guide lines are already set, Lt. Jeff R.

Response by LCDR Arthur Whittum made Nov 1 at 2021 9:04 PM

2021-11-01T21:04:11-04:00

"outside work"!? The E4 needs to be shown a new level of attention, along with its attendant discomfort level.

Response by CMDCM Tom Vinson made Nov 5 at 2021 5:39 PM

2021-11-05T17:39:57-04:00

Familiarity breeds contempt and lack of respect ultimately breeds disrespect. Fix it now or fix it later...your choice but doing it later will be much more difficult for you and on him. Take him aside now in private and fix the problem.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2021 6:25 PM

2021-11-05T18:25:50-04:00

Gentle correction is appropriate. Ensure the NCO chain is advised. Let the NCOs deal with the remediation/adjustment , if needed.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Nov 5 at 2021 8:33 PM

2021-11-05T20:33:12-04:00

Are you serious???? It’s not about your rank, its about requirements to be ready to fight and win our nation’s wars. If this is a hard question for you…. Please resign your commission TODAY!!!! You are NOT officer material! I had two LtCdr Naval aviators try to walk past me without saluting at Norfolk Naval Station, when asked they said that they could not see my rank insignia on my beret…. We did about 350 push ups until they could not push themselves off the ground. Set the Standard,”lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!” It isn’t about you, it’s about the good of the service and building the discipline necessary for troops to survive.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 6 at 2021 9:49 AM

2021-11-06T09:49:37-04:00

Without of doubt, Sir. Unless YOU have given him permission to be that relaxed around you outside of work, don't set that standard. Just like children, if you have any of your own, do you let them call you by your first name?...NO, it's Mom or Dad...period!

Response by PVT Michele Bowman made Nov 6 at 2021 12:23 PM

2021-11-06T12:23:57-04:00

I most definitely would correct him but in a nice but understandable way.

Response by SSG(P) Danielle Birtha made Nov 6 at 2021 2:18 PM

2021-11-06T14:18:39-04:00

Something my grandfather taught me... as well as a 1SG... Sir doesn't always apply to rank.
Sir is a term of respect given to your fellow ... hu ... man.
Context is everything.
"outside work" could be a party, a bar... anywhere...
MY way is to always show proper respect to commissioned officer... unless told otherwise.
I.E. when at the Berchtesgaden Training center in Germany, we were told to not use rank while in civilian areas.
Everyone knew we were military, no sense pointing out who was in charge ;)
But ... as Top said: "when in doubt, whip it out".
We're all people working as a team, sometimes it's okay to 'let your hair down', in public...
In moderation... it's good for moral for us to just be human out of uniform. ;)
Never forget that Rank goes with you, no matter where you are, and represents the discipline of the Forces civilians see as their protectors.
Try to not be a bad example?

Response by PFC James Edward VERNON jr made Nov 7 at 2021 3:25 PM

2021-11-07T15:25:51-05:00

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE "SETTING" AND THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE INVOLVED PARTIES. THIS WORLD "NEEDS" MORE "FRIENDSHIPS", THAN "SUB-ORDINATES".

Response by MSG Charles Kaiser made Nov 8 at 2021 4:44 PM

2021-11-08T16:44:13-05:00

meany years Ago i saw how Colin Powell handled it when 2 young men gave him the Black Power sign

Response by MAJ Terry LaFrance made Nov 8 at 2021 4:52 PM

2021-11-08T16:52:19-05:00

The fact that you have to ask is disconcerting.

Response by SPC Elaine Brown made Nov 9 at 2021 11:48 AM

2021-11-09T11:48:34-05:00

Definitely correct him.

Response by CWO4 Ray Fairman made Nov 13 at 2021 9:47 AM

2021-11-13T09:47:03-05:00

Tolerance leads to acceptance and that acceptance sets new standards

Response by SGT Patrick Sullivan made Nov 13 at 2021 8:31 PM

2021-11-13T20:31:55-05:00

Don't let "Top" correct the Specialist....'cuz, then "Top" is going to rip you a "a new one" !
Know what I mean. Be decisive, Sir !
Not "Wishy-Washy".

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made Nov 15 at 2021 12:46 PM

2021-11-15T12:46:22-05:00

If you were in uniform he should have been lit up. Insubordination is insubordination. In or out of uniform respect should always be maintained. My uncle was a COL, my father was a 1SG. In uniform it was always COL B and Top; out of uniform uncle or dad. You have to remember where you are at all times and show respect.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Nov 18 at 2021 10:43 PM

2021-11-18T22:43:19-05:00

Nip it in the bud.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Nov 26 at 2021 11:57 PM

2021-11-26T23:57:41-05:00

It sounds like you have given him the impression that you two are friends. The next time it happens you should tell him that your name is CPT "X".

Response by SGM Art Hudson made Dec 9 at 2021 6:03 PM

2021-12-09T18:03:48-05:00

Yes you should correct this young SPC on the spot, courtesy on and off duty. you are a Soldier 24/7

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Dec 10 at 2021 8:53 AM

2021-12-10T08:53:04-05:00

Um, YES.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2021 10:24 AM

2021-12-10T10:24:57-05:00

I still use , Yes Sir , No mam , Thank you , USMC 1969 .

Response by CW4 Robert Goldsmith made Dec 10 at 2021 10:38 AM

2021-12-10T10:38:42-05:00

CPT Railey, thanks for the laugh. You are kidding, yes? It brought back a sweet memory of mine while I was a CW3 with a WO1 walking alongside me to the left as he was supposed to. An Enlisted Soldier was "casually" walking by and did not render the proper military courtesy. My WO1 went in on him hard like a Drill Sergeant. He did the right thing because I would've lit my WO1 like a Christmas tree because he was closer to being an NCO than a Chief. Out of sheer respect, some of my former Senior NCO's to include Sergeants Majors and Warrant Officers still call me Chief and they don't even have to. How could or would you allow an active duty Soldier not to address you as Sir when they know you're an Officer?

Response by 1SG Alan Boggs made Dec 10 at 2021 2:40 PM

2021-12-10T14:40:34-05:00

I would suggest you identify his first line leader and mention the lack of customs and courtesy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2021 3:59 PM

2021-12-10T15:59:08-05:00

Are you not a man? Are you trying to hide behind your rank?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2021 6:21 PM

2021-12-10T18:21:36-05:00

1 thing I think the military forgets is we are all human. We should be treated as such before anything. We don't get that nearly enough as civilians do. Good leaders don't lead by just only a set standard but by their good judgment and the well being for everyone else. That's where your head should be. This Soldier is of course on the clock 24/7 like any of us but we don't need to intrude apon somthing as small as "how to refer" to somone in the time where we don't have that uniform on. We all know we are soldiers and adults. If at work he uses his customs and courtesies then I think he's doing just fine.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2021 6:45 PM

2021-12-10T18:45:35-05:00

Sir,
COA #1: I would explain the Rank Structure of the United State Army to the SPC in the presence of his Team Leader, Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant and Platoon Leader. Once that occurs, I suspect that the NCOs will provide remedial training to the SPC in Military Customs and Courtesies.

COA #2: A friendly conversation with the SPC's First Sergeant could result in the SPC getting the attention/mentorship/training that he/she requires. Based on my military experience, First Sergeants will NOT tolerate a soldier's ... disrespect to an Officer or NCO. Nobody wants to 'piss off' the First Sergeant, the consequences could be unpleasant.

COA #3: Ignore it, drive on and establish an unprecedent standard of dis-behavior for others to follow. I don't think we want that, but ...

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Dec 11 at 2021 1:37 AM

2021-12-11T01:37:58-05:00

I don't know what Army standards are concerning his disrespecting you and your Rank but, in the Corps, he would be corrected on the spot! lol. I as a Lance Corporal from 3/5 had to pull aside a Sgt. when I was F.A.P.'d to Base Motors when he was doing something unbecoming of his Rank in front of Junor Marines. Later he thanked me for it.

NOTE: I'm sure Army Infantry Units run the same way Marine Grunt Units do when it comes to Respecting Rank. Meaning they would straighten that E-4 or any other Soldier out.

Response by COL Eric Rojo made Dec 11 at 2021 11:42 AM

2021-12-11T11:42:37-05:00

this should not be even a question. Being out of uniform does not change who we are and the mutual respect and protocols dictated by tradition and discipline

Response by SP5 Donna Barr made Dec 11 at 2021 11:56 AM

2021-12-11T11:56:54-05:00

Work? The military is not a JOB. You’re only off duty from 2359 to 2400. Don’t spend it all in one place (An old training sergeant does a fist pump because I finally used her joke). The proper address is “sir.” Upon fully deactivating, the proper address is, “You can’t give me orders any more, Butterbar.”

Response by SPC Robert Hendrickson made Dec 11 at 2021 10:47 PM

2021-12-11T22:47:12-05:00

when an enlisted knows you are an officer in the barracks areas, even if in civvies, then yes you should be addressed accordingly. but if off post then you are as another civilian unless you are uniformed properly, then enjoy being a officer-civilian and do not sweat the small things in military life
if in an foreign country in barracks then officer, outside of garrison/unit then adjust accordingly.
i waorked in both officer and enlisted capacities and my rank showed/shows enlisted, tho i was in my military duty to be addressed as specialist even tho i worked in both capacities. refer to regs, if needing more correct/right/true information .. yes you can write me on this if need be ,, FB me also

Response by CW3 Steve Butts made Dec 11 at 2021 10:49 PM

2021-12-11T22:49:47-05:00

He is on duty 24/7, as such, it is evident that his lack of respect needs to be addressed, It appears that many things have changed since I retired.

Response by SP5 Clyde Carlile made Dec 12 at 2021 9:24 AM

2021-12-12T09:24:34-05:00

When I was in the Army Officers did not (as a rule) interact with E-4 or lower. The officer would contact an NCO (hopefully one from the same unit as the enlisted) and explain the issue to that NCO. The NCO would handle it from there. IF the NCO thought the E-4 had a valid reason for addressing an Officer that way the NCO would go back to the Officer and explain the reason for the apparent disrespect. If the reason was not valid the NCO would handle the situation from there. It might be extra duty all the way up to an Article 15.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Dec 12 at 2021 9:33 AM

2021-12-12T09:33:34-05:00

Yes, you should correct him! You are an officer 24/7 as he is an enlisted 24/7 Respect must be shown at all times
Maybe I'm "old" school but even when I ran into an officer that I knew I address them by sir or by their rank

Response by PO2 Robert Kelly made Dec 12 at 2021 10:40 AM

2021-12-12T10:40:32-05:00

Respect for the chain of command and the ranks above us is essential to good order and efficiency of action, it should be made instinctual in the ranks. The E4 mafia should understand this by achieving the rank of E4. If you feel an officer is not living up to his responsibilities should always be addressed as Captain not sir but respectfully so as to keep clear where the fault lies. Just as in the civilian world there are people I will never address by their first names when “Doctor” or “Nurse” so and so is very effective for expressing displeasure.

Response by SN Robbie Malone made Dec 12 at 2021 2:49 PM

2021-12-12T14:49:30-05:00

I did that to an officer. once But, I said hey and we knew each other pretty well. You talking about a disappointed look. And then I walked up to him and apologized and addressed him appropriately

Response by SFC Jerry McLellen made Dec 12 at 2021 4:14 PM

2021-12-12T16:14:27-05:00

Get over it. The kid doesn't work for you and does address you as "sir" when on duty. Unless you have an on-duty relationship, you are just another guy on the street. And additionally, what have you done to warrant this guy to refer to you as "sir" while off duty? Just being an OCS graduate doesn't entitle you to some higher level of respect.

Response by SPC Ralph Ware made Dec 12 at 2021 7:04 PM

2021-12-12T19:04:25-05:00

As a senior member of the "Mafia" I will say that that is uncalled for and should be shut down. Possibly if there is a close connection and off duty and off base, with the understanding that military decorum needs be followed at the appropriate time and place. NOT knowing the officer, that is OUT of bounds! Now that said, the "Mafia" is a bit looser with the NCO's, we all know how that works!!!!! :)!

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Dec 12 at 2021 8:09 PM

2021-12-12T20:09:44-05:00

Absolutely correct them. The need to establish and maintain a clear chain-of-command is imperative and cannot be overstated. Remember, its not just you, but the rank structure that must be maintained. There may come a time when the need to follow orders is imperative and subordinate cannot establish a mindset where they think an order is a suggestion open for debate or negotiation. Besides, ever if you do have confidence that this NCO understands all that, other subordinates may be watching and think its no big deal to be more casual than they have a right to be. In a private casual environment, the relationship might be more casual, but it has to come from you. Never allow them to dictate the parameters. That's just being intentionally disrespectful. I could write a paper, but I'll stop it here.

Response by Maj Gail Lofdahl made Dec 12 at 2021 8:53 PM

2021-12-12T20:53:34-05:00

I'd probably address him by his rank and tell him, "I address you by your rank because I respect the work you put into achieving it. And I'd be negligent if I didn't tell you it's in your best interest to treat officers (or NCOs) with equal respect."

Response by SGT M Edilson made Dec 12 at 2021 10:37 PM

2021-12-12T22:37:23-05:00

If you have to ask, you should just quit and work for a car dealership or somthing meaningless.

Response by SSgt Francis MacDonald made Dec 13 at 2021 7:55 AM

2021-12-13T07:55:15-05:00

As an officer you should immediately correct him along with a good ass chewing about respect. As a former Marine Staff Sargent I would be referred to as say good morning staff or good morning staff Sargent. You earned this respect and you should demand it. How else are we to maintain a well disciplined Military.

Response by PO3 Kevin DeLong made Dec 13 at 2021 8:36 AM

2021-12-13T08:36:33-05:00

If your in uniform yes you correct him. If you are not in uniform and your sitting at a bar and an e4 comes up to you and says hey man what are you drinking I am buying then you let it slide.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Dec 13 at 2021 11:36 AM

2021-12-13T11:36:49-05:00

Hell yes.

Response by SFC Jay White made Dec 13 at 2021 12:58 PM

2021-12-13T12:58:33-05:00

It depends. From an enlisted standpoint, knowing and respecting the rank structure is paramount. Some officers were wise enough to know that Greetings of the day from individual contact with enlisted members really of no consequence, as long as that enlisted member realized that in official capacities (I.e meetings, groups of enlisted and officers alike, etc), proper customs and courtesies would not only be expected, but strictly adhered to. In other words, “SPC, you better get your mind right!” I’ve done a lot to earn what I have and I’ll not let you diminish it to a “hey or hey man”

Response by SPC Jordan Sutich made Dec 13 at 2021 1:31 PM

2021-12-13T13:31:31-05:00

Absolutely! It's all about learning.

Response by MSG Royce Yeates made Dec 13 at 2021 2:15 PM

2021-12-13T14:15:00-05:00

Soldiers should never bring the "hood" with them. They volunteered to serve and volunteered to meet or exceed the standards. If they cannot, or will not, do that they have no business serving in any capacity of any organization. Hopefully, you corrected him, forcefully.

Response by SPC John Williams made Dec 13 at 2021 3:03 PM

2021-12-13T15:03:10-05:00

I feel like part of the story is missing here. My initial reaction is that you should mention it to him. However, I'm curious are these social, or religious settings? are you in uniform? I had officers in my church when I was in, they insisted I call them by the first name when in church or at a church function. If I would see them on base or in uniform then I spoke to them with military respect.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Dec 13 at 2021 4:29 PM

2021-12-13T16:29:48-05:00

??????????????? You even asked this?? SMH

Response by SGT James Hunsinger made Dec 13 at 2021 4:38 PM

2021-12-13T16:38:35-05:00

The very fact that an Army captain is asking a question like this makes me sad and angry at what the Army I served in has become. YES! Yes you should absolutely correct that SPC! I know my Army career came to an end 20 years ago but has discipline and education on military tradition, regulation and protocol really degenerated this far this fast?!

Beyond saying that you should correct this situation yesterday I will say that the way you correct it at this point is going to be important. As far as I am concerned you are at much, if not more, fault than he is for not correcting it the first time. Now, because you have in the past let it happen, it has become the new standard even if it is just a standard between you and him. I would not make a show of it. Do it privately, acknowledge that part of the blame is on you for being complacent about it but explain that proper protocol and adherence to Army regulation must be maintained. You can be friendly with the correction since it is your fault it has gone on. However, if the soldier cannot take the correction for what it is then you may have to become more forceful with it.

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Dec 13 at 2021 4:38 PM

2021-12-13T16:38:57-05:00

Dumb question. Hell yes correct him.

Response by Sgt Bobby Armentrout made Dec 13 at 2021 6:11 PM

2021-12-13T18:11:00-05:00

Wow. Captain, I read a lot of answers in this thread from some guys who have a lot more time than I did and the answer I was thinking was obvious was that:

A) If you bust his chops at the gym, Olive Garden (WTF said that BTW? That's funny stuff!) or wherever off duty, you just look like a douche, even though you are dead right.

B) Go see him or his 1st Sgt (we Marines would find the Gunny) and have him find out why he thinks you guys are pals. This kills two birds with the same stone by letting both know your expectation so that the expectation goes unit wide. It's enlisted business, which is square in the 1st Sgt's wheelhouse IMO. I was never a Captain, but it seems to me Captains should not be so myopic about every little detail, just the important ones. In other words, do you have a general expectation that unit members will adhere to customs and courtesies of the U.S. armed forces? Or do you have an obsession with making sure every 2nd Lt gets a salute?

C) Apply Hanlon's Razor.

D) I work with a lot of Army vets and aside from some uniform things, unit missions, and most Marines having a cult-like relationship with our Corps, we are much more alike than different. I was always told that if you had to remind people you were in charge, you probably weren't in charge. Stick with Captain stuff, sir. Let your Top handle the enlisted stuff.

Response by 1SG Jimmy Bacon made Dec 13 at 2021 6:25 PM

2021-12-13T18:25:12-05:00

Correct it now sir. Do not let it linger. On or Off Duty, as an NCO I will address you as sir until I am told to do otherwise BY YOU.

Response by SFC Antonio Baird made Dec 13 at 2021 10:20 PM

2021-12-13T22:20:49-05:00

First try speaking to him one on one and remind him of the rank structure of the US Armed Forces. You don't even have to necessarily give him a written counseling statement. However, you need to do a Memorandum For Record that day detailing what you discussed with him and why. If after you speak with him his action persist, he should be put in for 1 week of corrective training in full battle rattle, and be made to present a class in the rank structure and respect thereof to his Company's entire junior enlisted members. This "soft" approach is positive in two ways. First he doesn't get a record of UCMJ, and secondly, having to do a presentation in front of the E4 mafia will wake up other soldiers who are borderline disrespectful. I hope this helps. Taking $ and imposing UCMJ should be reserved for those actually deserving of it.

Response by SSgt Derick Brock made Dec 14 at 2021 2:30 AM

2021-12-14T02:30:33-05:00

Just my opinion- Wouldn't it be better if you can find a more senior enlisted person to help the E4? I messed up similarly when and E3, and got chewed on by a major- put it down to him just being a jerk. A couple of days later a Tech Sgt (E6) took the opportunity to help me learn and I never forgot that lesson, even to the point that, later in my career I suggested to a young LT that when our younger troops messed up it might serve our overall mission better for him to "correct" me and give me the space to handle it. IT got the job done and strengthened the chain of command.

Response by SGT Mark Moen made Dec 14 at 2021 6:45 AM

2021-12-14T06:45:25-05:00

At Ft Carson people who failed to address officers proper attended reveille and retreat saluting the flag for 30 days

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2021 10:41 AM

2021-12-14T10:41:52-05:00

You're a CPT, and you honestly don't know the answer to this question? Things have really changed in the military, I guess. Certain customs and courtesies end when you take off the uniform, others are part of the military way of life. The military is not a 9-5 job or a social club, your role doesn't stop when you put on civilian clothes. You carry an ID card that shows where you fit in the protocol when you are not wearing rank insignia, should the need arise. Every soldier is (or used to be) taught how to make on the spot corrections while in civilian clothes. A courteous greeting, introduction of self and presentation of ID, and a tactful explanation of why you initiated the conversation. Now, if soldiers are taught to do that, what does that suggest about military customs and courtesies concerning rank? It suggests that you are a CPT all the time. He is a SPC all the time, and if he knows you are a CPT then "Hey man." is not a proper way to get your attention. When I was an E-5, a PFC attempted to get my attention that way while we were in uniform. He got it. I would expect an officer and a gentleman would be more tactful but no less firm than I was in making the on the spot correction of military customs and courtesies.

Response by Marilyn Kenoly made Dec 15 at 2021 12:39 AM

2021-12-15T00:39:49-05:00

Correct him.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Dec 15 at 2021 3:26 PM

2021-12-15T15:26:25-05:00

RU shitting me... As much as I disliked certain officers I NEVER disrespected the emblem they wore on their collar. It didn't matter if they were a boot Ensign or CincPack Fleet and yes I actually met him and he sent me a letter thanking me for the pictures I sent him of his visit to my ship while on a WestPac cruise.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2021 3:45 PM

2021-12-15T15:45:49-05:00

That not just Offier or NCO 101 its soldiering. You should know that answer. Military is getting to soft or caring of hurting feelings.

Response by PO3 Dale Olson made Dec 15 at 2021 4:26 PM

2021-12-15T16:26:14-05:00

RU shitting me.... I had my issues with the officer corps. But, I never disrespected the insignia their wore on their collar. The mere fact that you were not in uniform just does not justify that way to address you. If he was in my section I would make sure that he was instructed on how to address an officer. I have interfaced with midshipmen, boot Ensigns, and Commander SEVENTH Fleet (Adirmal Thoms Moore).

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2021 4:34 PM

2021-12-15T16:34:45-05:00

Yes,
You should correct him, it shouldn't even be a question. We have to start back being leaders, and start enforcing what's right.

Response by MSgt G P made Dec 15 at 2021 6:23 PM

2021-12-15T18:23:14-05:00

Yes you correct it on the spot that what RHIP is all about respect the rank earned

Response by PO2 Paul Dempsey made Dec 16 at 2021 2:39 PM

2021-12-16T14:39:31-05:00

Your an officer and your really asking this. WTF

Response by PO1 Leona Weir made Dec 17 at 2021 2:02 PM

2021-12-17T14:02:52-05:00

If you are both in uniform outside of work, i.e. commissary or such, then you should still adhere to protocol. However, if off duty out of uniform, that’s a subjective call, Maybe talk to them next time you see him and let him know that you would prefer them to address you as sir. No need to do it in front of others, just let them know. Now if after you have a talk with them and it continues, light them up. I have always given people one pass and a discussion. After that, well, arms got real tired cause they pushed until I got tired!

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Dec 17 at 2021 8:43 PM

2021-12-17T20:43:31-05:00

BBQ his ass. Disrespectful shit! Omg I’m old school. Even if you are prick respect the rank not the person at the very least. Saddens me deeply.

Response by SPC Arthur Lowder made Dec 20 at 2021 4:31 PM

2021-12-20T16:31:44-05:00

OFF DUTY, ASK HIM TO CALL YOU BY YOUR NAME OR TELL HIM YOUR NAME
HEY OR HEY MAN DON,T CUT IT.

Response by SGT Christopher Shankle made Dec 30 at 2021 11:00 AM

2021-12-30T11:00:30-05:00

He sees you as a man. E-4 Mafia confirmed.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jan 10 at 2022 5:16 PM

2022-01-10T17:16:05-05:00

Spot Correction and then locate his 1st line supervisor to ream him out. That's the duty of NCOs to maintain unit discipline.
Duty: a task or action that a designated person is required to perform.

Response by Cpl Nicholas Crider made Jan 16 at 2022 1:10 PM

2022-01-16T13:10:24-05:00

If we were in cities AND off base. I never called anyone by their rank. I was still more respectful than hey or hey man, but I didn't say sir or any specific rank. Then again. I'm a firm believer in separating work from my person life.

Response by CWO4 Terrence Clark made Jan 16 at 2022 3:06 PM

2022-01-16T15:06:28-05:00

What a leader does not condemn, he condones. Have your NCO snatch a knot in his grommet.

Response by SPC David Murphy made Jan 16 at 2022 3:30 PM

2022-01-16T15:30:16-05:00

I was taught that outside of work did not relieve someone of the responsibility for observing etiquette, if you know someone is an officer or higher rank than you. Even if you are in civilian clothes, proper etiquette requires he should call you sir unless it places you in an embarrassing or awkward situation.

Response by Lt Col Karamjit Aujla made Jan 16 at 2022 4:33 PM

2022-01-16T16:33:16-05:00

To me this is unacceptable. May he did not get the right military training!!!
Therefore, I will ask him to come in my office so we can chat. In my office I will ask him several questions about his training, brought up, education and more. What he learned in the military training?

Then I will put him in my position and ask him how he/she will react to "hay man"?
After all this, I will tell him this is military. We respect others. As an officer, I call Mike Anderson by his rank and last name. Sgt Anderson. As an officer I can call my junior by their first name but I call my seniors by Rank or Sir. I don't call ""hay man".
This is not only in the military, we respect everyone civilian.

"Hay man" is okay with your friends

Response by LCpl William Harrison made Jan 16 at 2022 4:53 PM

2022-01-16T16:53:24-05:00

To be honest unless you approve of crossing the UCOC , than don't bring it up and contribute to the degradation of discipline further than what you're dealing with now.

Response by TSgt George Austin made Jan 16 at 2022 5:35 PM

2022-01-16T17:35:12-05:00

If in civvies do not be so sensitive. If in uniform then go with the correct address protocol. You earned your rank and are allowed to be respected.

Response by SSG Bruce Zeit made Jan 16 at 2022 6:49 PM

2022-01-16T18:49:37-05:00

Correct it on the spot, if you allow it once the soldier will feel like he can address you or any other officer or senior NCO that way

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2022 9:45 PM

2022-01-16T21:45:51-05:00

As former AD Enlisted Soldier and a Reservist now, I can honestly say Sir that you should definitely correct him. In my MOS , we worked with our Officers on a daily bases. Sometimes as a unit we would go out together for meals,etc. I always addressed them as Sir or Ma'am even if I was in civilian clothes. I did it to show respect, but also because that was what I was taught.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Jan 17 at 2022 12:45 AM

2022-01-17T00:45:55-05:00

Yes, you should this is unacceptable decorum. When this Spc gets his education and time in service and decides to get a commission he'll be afforded the same right.

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Jan 17 at 2022 12:48 AM

2022-01-17T00:48:36-05:00

I have a question, is this happening more often today than in the past?

Response by GySgt Richard Morrison made Jan 17 at 2022 2:11 AM

2022-01-17T02:11:22-05:00

Hell Yes You Should. If it were me he was talking to, I would have given him a Vertical Butt Stroke!!!. And Yes, that's how most of us Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeants would react!!! OOHRAH and Semper Fi.

Response by SSG Cheri Kelley Miller made Jan 17 at 2022 2:47 AM

2022-01-17T02:47:12-05:00

Here's the thing, regardless of the situation, the fact of the matter is you are an officer regardless as to how new you are to your rank a "hey" or "hey man" coming for an ENLISTED soldier (regardless of rank, but ESPECIALLY an E4) is very inappropriate. If you let it go, it shows them that you could care less and have no pride or respect for the uniform or military customs and courtesies. Which, you being an officer, I know this is NOT the case because of the hard work and time and effort you put in to become a military officer. That in and of itself takes a good amount of pride and respect. Use that pride and respect and professionalism, that I know you, as an officer, have and call the E4 out. Let him know that while you respect his rank he should be respecting yours as well. You worked hard for your rank, a "hey man" in inappropriate in the AO. "If you can't remember my name or are not able to identify my rank, a simple Good morning/afternoon/evening, Sir, will be suffice" Continued actions of this nature could result in non judicial punishment IAW with UCMJ article 92 failure to obey a lawful order (albeit verbal, written or general, not abiding by by military customs and courtesy is a direct violation of the UCMJ) Let him know you mean business and this behavior will not be tolerated. Plain and simple.
Good luck, Sir hope this gets resolution for you quickly.

Response by COL George Antochy made Jan 17 at 2022 3:23 AM

2022-01-17T03:23:57-05:00

So would you accept the SPC not obeying your orders? If so, why are you an officer. I realize that many in or society do not respect authority, but that is totally unacceptable in the military. Not only should this SPC be corrected, but his NCO chain of command should get involved and have this Soldier receive some extra training to further reinforce the need for respecting authority in the military. I had a Lieutenant once fail to recognize my authority, and that Lieutenant taught the next OPD class on the topic as extra training.

Response by CPT Thomas Monahan made Jan 17 at 2022 7:27 AM

2022-01-17T07:27:24-05:00

Lock their heals; do the on the spot
correction, and follow-up with the Company or PLT CoC. By following-up with the CoC not NCO support channel) it gives said SPC a second chance to have refresher training on customs and courtesies (C&C). You know how much1SGs having their Soldiers be placed on report by Officers. I can just hear
a Squad Leader, PLT SGT and 1SG each having a “friendly” conversation with said SPC. Picture him/her giving a C&C professional development class to every Fire Team in the Company in the course of a week.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 1:23 PM

2022-01-17T13:23:22-05:00

Why is this even a question?

Response by Sgt Michael McLEAN made Jan 17 at 2022 1:50 PM

2022-01-17T13:50:12-05:00

Custom and curtisies should all ways be observed. Regardless of rank on or off duty. to allow this it can and will cause problems at the job. Also as an officer you can get repriemanded if you get caught at home and that SPC is calling you by those names. AKA fraternization.

Response by SPC Tim Walker made Jan 17 at 2022 2:48 PM

2022-01-17T14:48:27-05:00

You didn’t indicate if you were both in civvies when you saw him outside of work, but that might make a difference to him. A short conversation with him to let him know the expectation would probably do the trick since he seems to be addressing you appropriately on the job.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2022 2:50 PM

2022-01-17T14:50:02-05:00

I think I greatly depends on the time and place and your relationship with that SPC. I had a great relationship with my officers, but if there was ever anyone else around I kept it professional. There’s a time and a place for everything.

Response by SSgt Michael Bowen made Jan 17 at 2022 6:15 PM

2022-01-17T18:15:28-05:00

I was told something as a young Marine and i took it with me when after serving 9 years as a Marine i went into the Army and it has always worked well . and that is ,In or out of uniform when you know the person to be an officer you address them accordingly . Sir or their rank No exceptions . Because it makes it to easy to slip up at the wrong time making both look bad . And if the officer never told you it was ok address them in such a casual way when not in uniform you don't period . And even if they have you respectfully decline and don't do it .

Response by Jerry Rivas made Jan 17 at 2022 8:08 PM

2022-01-17T20:08:39-05:00

Lock his heels and ream his ass.....Problem solved.

Response by SP5 George Smith made Jan 18 at 2022 3:00 AM

2022-01-18T03:00:43-05:00

Yeah, you shouldn’t bother him, you should lock his heels and ask where he did his basic training before educating him in properly addressing an officer.

Response by MAJ Patrick Hairston CISSP, AWS Certified Cloud Architect made Jan 18 at 2022 8:43 AM

2022-01-18T08:43:33-05:00

Why is this even a question? Of course you should correct him. He doesnt or shouldnt know you like that. You need to keep that separation between you. First name basis or casual basis is a privilege and only shared between senior NCO's and officers and those who know each other well and have worked together for a long amount of time. Case in point, As an S6 and then a commander, I had a senior E-7 commo chief. We were both S-6 in an aviation unit. When I was the SIGO, we were attached at the hip. As a commander, he was my 1SG sometimes. We went through a lot together and we earned the right in off duty situations to call each other by first name if the situation warranted it. But even today, he is a CSM and I'm a retired MAJ and he still calls me sir sometimes...Dont relent on the standard. Uphold it. The OCS motto, and it sticks with me even today. STANDARDS...NO COMPROMISE!!!

Response by PO2 Bob Loder made Jan 18 at 2022 4:41 PM

2022-01-18T16:41:41-05:00

Disciplinary Action called for. Never allowed.

Response by SGT Michael Wells III made Jan 18 at 2022 10:11 PM

2022-01-18T22:11:26-05:00

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding anything here, this just seems alien to me.
"outside work" Like at the local bar in civies? Did he know you were an officer?
If no - then it's up to you if you reveal your rank. I don't think there is any AR that specifically says you have to not while NOT in uniform.
If yes, if he knows and you're in uniform a correction must be made. When the **** hits the fan and you're having to give orders that will inevitably get soldiers killed, you can't be their friends and make tactical decisions without emotions getting in the way. That's the best piece of advice I can give. There is a reason you're paid more - with that comes with a limited pool of possible friendships.

Response by LTC Art Kirkland made Jan 18 at 2022 10:50 PM

2022-01-18T22:50:03-05:00

Absolutely. It is not just you, but every officer that you speak for. You cannot allow this kind of behavior to happen uncorrected. When you ignore a standard, you set a new standard.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2022 7:47 AM

2022-01-19T07:47:58-05:00

Absolutely

Response by SSG Lincoln Briggs made Jan 19 at 2022 12:48 PM

2022-01-19T12:48:46-05:00

I hated having to salute officers while in a combat zone, and had many conversations about how redundant it was. HOWEVER, coming from a Combat Veteran who has his CIB, AAM, ACM, and a solid leader… You 100% have the right to, and SHOULD, tell anyone to address you properly.

Response by SPC Ben Pierce made Jan 19 at 2022 6:45 PM

2022-01-19T18:45:31-05:00

No dude..I disagree with most of the sentiments here, and I suspect it is because they're only reading the title of your question and not the details.

People are people, they need a chance to relax, and sometimes people need an opportunity to feel at least a LITTLE "important" or significant...however small that moment may be.

According to your statements, he is addressing you properly while in uniform (which I'll admit is a big MUST). Out of uniform? Leave the guy alone. That may be his little moment to feel like he can connect with senior leaders on a more Han level. And what you consider to be a small gesture of "correcting" him could be enough to crush what little spirit he may have left...over what is BASICALLY a non-issue.

By all means, if he had called you "man" at work in an inappropriate way, demolish him. You can't let that breed among the troops, and you need to set the tone of hierarchy.

But out of uniform? Don't make it a bigger deal than it has to be.

Besides, from a security standpoint, people addressing you as someone of importance outside of work is considered by some to be compromising. People outside of the force don't need to know that you're an officer. Just be a person.

Response by PO2 Jamye Sarah Pankiw Wagner made Jan 19 at 2022 6:59 PM

2022-01-19T18:59:55-05:00

So, this is outside of work and he's not in your command... no.

If this were on base and in uniform, of course correct him.

You're human, right? The uniform doesn't make you the person you are. Try not to be one of those over bloated officers that can't just be human.

Response by LCpl Andrew Montoya made Jan 19 at 2022 7:35 PM

2022-01-19T19:35:09-05:00

An officer is an officer no matter where they are. Unless you specifically say "hey outside work its insert name here" otherwise its sir. I had a squad leader that was sergeant even as we watched ufc at his house for his birthday. ( we were all leadership in the platoon) eventually he said hey man as long as nobody else is around no rank needed. It doesn't require an ass chewing just a simple hey its sir. Customs and courtesies doesn't end at the gate. He should know that already. By not saying anything your setting a sub par standard.

Response by A1C Robert Underwood made Jan 20 at 2022 12:33 AM

2022-01-20T00:33:23-05:00

Is it on duty or at a get-together? On duty, 1st time get them off to the side and remind him how to address an officer after that Katy-bar-the-door.

Response by Maj Brian B. made Jan 20 at 2022 5:37 AM

2022-01-20T05:37:37-05:00

Absolutely correct them on the spot. Stop that behavior there. Don't wait, don't smile, don't feel nervous, don't be intimidated, and don't try to be nice. Set the example there, NOW. Never allow an enlisted to call you "hey" and especially not "Hey man" If off duty it might possibly be okay in certain circumstances. And those circumstances are what ever the hell you make them to be. You're the Officer.

Response by PO2 Rich Simmons made Jan 20 at 2022 8:40 AM

2022-01-20T08:40:03-05:00

As an E4 I would expect you keep walking and don't recognize me until I get it right. If it doesn't click after a few seconds why you aren't responding then someone needs to go back to boot. Respect is a major part of military and rankings, it should carry into the civilian world as well. Letting things slip or hand holding is why things are as laxed in this world. Respect your officers and respect your elders, 2 simple rules we should all adhere to and the world would be a better place.

Response by MAJ Michael Cummings made Jan 20 at 2022 10:27 AM

2022-01-20T10:27:45-05:00

I have been retired for years and still have soldiers I served with 20 years ago call me Sir when I encounter them. I have told them they can call me by my first name but they insist on calling me Sir. It is a matter of respect. Even if they do not respect you, military customs and courtesies dictate that they respect the rank since they know you are an officer. You do not have to be rude about it but you should address it.

Response by MAJ James Fitzgerald made Jan 20 at 2022 4:58 PM

2022-01-20T16:58:47-05:00

CPT Railey...you have received a lot of feedback below, all of which I have respect for and appreciate. There is no substitute for leadership and leader recognition. It is such an important aspect of how we operate in the military. I remember as a 2LT at Ft Knox, a young soldier ran by me literally, with no acknowledgement, no effort to slow to a walk, etc. I called him by his rank and asked him to come back, which he did. I explained to him that I had been where he is, and that one of the important aspects of soldiering is military customs and courtesies. I explained to him that it is about respect for our time honored tradition of separation of ranks for decision making and obeying orders. He apologized, saluted and returned his salute and he took off running again. I am sure he had some place he was suppose to be and he wasn't there yet. Guessing his Drill Sargent was looking for him. I have zero doubt he did not tell his DS what had happened to him.

Another case I can recall was as a CPT. I was walking with the company First Sergeant going somewhere, and a soldier went right by us without saluting. Well, the First Shirt was having none of that and he called the young PFC (I believe it was) back and proceeded to explain to him that military courtesy is not an option, among other 'comments'...I guess I should say he lit him up for more accuracy...he made the young soldier come back, apologize and salute. I think having the 1SG address the issue was more effective than had I addressed it myself. Where possible, I think having an NCO correct the matter is a good alternative. It is not always possible, but I found that it worked very well.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 5:16 PM

2022-01-20T17:16:00-05:00

I guess as foreign Military and a SNCO ( SSGT equivalent E7) I would look at it this way, as you haven't explained whether it is social , afterhours, or is the person someone you work on a daily basis, I'll just assume that they are. The behaviors we ignore is the behavior you'll get. I would still expect a that a Soldier/Sailor/Airperson regardless of rank, Other Ranks(OR) should still be mindful and respectful of a senior rank (Officer) and how they are addressing that individual. Sorry we refer to all our Military Service people as enlisted we don't separate. But we also have very clear guidelines around interactions between ORs and Officers, which should be and generally is enforced by our NCO's, SNCO's, WO's and Officers, regardless of the situation. While there is some relaxation of tongues outside of the work environments - social gatherings, there should still be some lines and control that need to be maintained, I would really ask yourself, do you want this person to keep addressing you as hey man, or use the correct acknowledgment, Good morning, day, evening 'SIR/MAM'. As a leader and commander it's something you can correct, or it will be something you'll receive every time.

Response by CMDCM Bev Brennan made Jan 20 at 2022 6:57 PM

2022-01-20T18:57:45-05:00

He probably doesn't understand the concept of the "appearance of unfamiliarity". If it was a one time thing, I'd let it ride. If it was a daily occurrence, I'd pull him to the side and quietly explain the concept.

Response by SPC Bill Ratajczak made Jan 20 at 2022 7:44 PM

2022-01-20T19:44:09-05:00

The fact you have ask is appalling. You need to snap that E-4 back to reality. Disrespect breeds contempt.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2022 12:39 AM

2022-01-21T00:39:35-05:00

SFC Casey O'Mally's comment is stellar.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2022 12:56 AM

2022-01-21T00:56:39-05:00

Had a joint medical assignment with Army-Air Force. Enlisted Air Force medical personnel addressing our Army Doctors, officers all, with "Yo, Buddy" and "Hey." Met with them privately, at attention, told them "No more." The following week they began calling the medical officers by their first name. The Army Doctors told them, "When in Rome, do as the Roman's, call me by my first name." Full bird Colonel. Air Force Enlisted of all ranks hollering down the hall, "Hey Bob, does he need an IV? Army Medics said "No Thank you," and continued to refer to the OIC as Sir. The culture at that assignment was a real challenge.

Response by CWO3 Warren Gaudreau made Jan 21 at 2022 8:45 AM

2022-01-21T08:45:03-05:00

Not to correct him will result in a degradation of the good order that is a military necessity.

Response by SPC Stephen Kraft made Jan 21 at 2022 8:47 AM

2022-01-21T08:47:52-05:00

Do you expect every enlisted soldier on your post to know you and address you by rank out of uniform? Because if you expect the SPC who isn’t under your command to address you as such, then that is the standard. Good luck identifying all the out of uniform enlisted soldiers on your next Walmart trip, because standards must be enforced uniformly. You should check yourself; if you keep running into this specific SPC, maybe you need to adjust your personal life to avoid fraternizing with enlisted soldiers. The rank stops when you put on Levi’s. And if you tried to enforce that bullshit on me off post, I’d call the local police on you for harassment. Truth.

Response by SFC Zohn Tennyson made Jan 21 at 2022 8:57 AM

2022-01-21T08:57:57-05:00

You're supposedly an O-3 and you don't know the answer to this question??

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Jan 21 at 2022 9:52 AM

2022-01-21T09:52:36-05:00

Well being an Officer, I would think that you you call him over to you and bring him to Parade Rest and explain the consequences of In-Subordination and how you could make him a PFC. That should gain his respect. Todays Army is like non before. The discipline is really lax and this is one reason why.

Response by CPT Ernest Nichols made Jan 21 at 2022 2:32 PM

2022-01-21T14:32:15-05:00

Correct him, period!

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2022 4:52 PM

2022-01-21T16:52:30-05:00

You have two options in my opinion based on my experience as a Senior enlisted leader and without more details you'll have to decide Sir. Let me say that absolutely you need to gig this Specialist. His behavior is incorrect, disrespectful and he needs to get a course correction before he passes his bad habits on. If you know his reporting senior you can go that route and let them handle what for me would be an embarrassing decficiency in my Soldier (Sailor in my case). That would be ideal, but if he does it again and you don't know the senior you need to correct him in firm but not abusive manner if others are present. If you are alone feel free to light him up a little bit. You earned the right to his respect regardless of your paygrade. I'd be lit up if he did this to a Sgt much less and "O". His Sgt if he's worth his salt will appreciate it. Make him a good leader by making him a good follower.

Response by PO2 Christopher Harvell made Jan 21 at 2022 7:17 PM

2022-01-21T19:17:41-05:00

Extra Military Instruction. Have said SPC give training to the rest of the division on military customs, courtesies, and traditions.

Response by SCPO Deric Wright made Jan 21 at 2022 9:24 PM

2022-01-21T21:24:47-05:00

It bothers me that you need to ask this question sir. Address this type of issue directly to the offender, and do it the moment it happens, unless you are in the middle of serious operations. Are there other enlisted people that you allow to address you in an unprofessional and disrespectful manner because you are friends? Officers should never fraternize with enlisted, and you should be "an officer" all of the time on and off duty. Either this enlisted person has a problem, or your command has a problem somewhere in the officer ranks.

Response by SGT Kenneth Duncan made Jan 21 at 2022 9:51 PM

2022-01-21T21:51:42-05:00

You are his superior 24/7. Whether you work together or not. Nip it in the bud, before it gets worse.

Response by PO2 Brad Broerman made Jan 21 at 2022 10:25 PM

2022-01-21T22:25:11-05:00

Definitely. You are an officer, and he is enlisted... end of story.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Jan 22 at 2022 9:19 AM

2022-01-22T09:19:16-05:00

Yes, you should correct this E-4, There has to be respect in the ranks. In my day we addressed everyone by their rank, The rank first then the name.

Response by PO3 Bill Reedy made Jan 22 at 2022 12:28 PM

2022-01-22T12:28:20-05:00

Yes Sir is the way I was taught.

Response by 1SG William Rodman made Jan 22 at 2022 3:56 PM

2022-01-22T15:56:15-05:00

If you were in civilian clothing, are you sure the SPC recognized you? You mentioned you had only come across him a couple of times in a work environment. One way, or the other, the soldier needs to be corrected, but I feel the tone of the correction should be a little different depending on the situation.

Response by Sgt Peter McLaughlin made Jan 22 at 2022 4:02 PM

2022-01-22T16:02:54-05:00

I would like to think that the statement: " you are on duty 24/7" while serving on active duty applies here. Each individual has their own opinion on this matter. I've heard stories where units have been together so long, that some of the members get casual with each other. Still, proper protocol requires you to address an officer as "Sir".

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2022 5:52 PM

2022-01-22T17:52:19-05:00

1. Hay is for horses.
2. E-4s have E-5, 6 and 7s plus LTs and CPT. Give them counseling statement and teach them how to properly train 4-s.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2022 6:17 PM

2022-01-22T18:17:12-05:00

In or out of uniform? Out of uniform and it never crosses over in uniform, do nothing. If in uniform correct immediately and find his direct supervisor and have chat.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2022 7:09 PM

2022-01-22T19:09:53-05:00

You are a officer you should know what to do

Response by SFC Stephen Everett made Jan 22 at 2022 8:04 PM

2022-01-22T20:04:19-05:00

When you are the new Platoon Sergeant or the Company Commander you set the standard by first impression on or off duty. I always say to myself as a reminder. As a leader, “everything was not given, it was earn”.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Jan 22 at 2022 8:48 PM

2022-01-22T20:48:00-05:00

I was never much on RHIP, but this falls into a class of total disrespect, and you have to step up and correct the problem

Response by Amn John Dixon made Jan 23 at 2022 2:23 AM

2022-01-23T02:23:48-05:00

You are ALWAYS an officer, sir. When you are home in bed, out with your family, at work -- wherever. When an enlisted man addresses an officer, there had better be a "Sir" in there somewhere! It is your duty, sir, to educate the specialist.

Response by SGT Larry Beal made Jan 23 at 2022 7:05 AM

2022-01-23T07:05:13-05:00

Yes sir

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2022 8:35 AM

2022-01-23T08:35:43-05:00

For me it depends on the environment and what's happening. I work in a lot of TOCs but I still say sir or ma'am. But in the heat of a lot of stuff going on my OIC and I will say hey (last name) to each other because things are moving too fast. But that is the relationship that my OIC and I had. No matter what I always said sir or ma'am until I was told just say my last name when this situation is happening. On that same note if you feel some type of way about it let the SPC and also don't say hey to him/her. I see this a lot where officers and NCOs want to be called by their rank but have no issue say hey you to someone junior to them. Respect goes both ways.

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Jan 23 at 2022 8:38 AM

2022-01-23T08:38:37-05:00

You say he did call you sir. I would guess that it would depend on the context of the "hey man" you say this is outside of work, where in the conversation did this happen? If in the middle of a discussion and he's already greeted you properly at the outset, I would tend to overlook it. If it was his initial greeting then I would address the issue, and remind him that the proper greeting was still required even in civilian situations. The situation obviously made you uncomfortable and question your response so a reminder of proper protocol is in order. Pull the E-4 aside at work and explain to him your discomfort with "Hey, or Hey Man" and tell him or her how you (and other officers) should be addressed in civilian off duty situations. In the Navy (the first 6 years of my military career) Overseas on a Navy destroyer it was common for us to run into our Captain or other officers out on the town when we pulled into a port. We would initially address him as Captain upon first seeing him, and he would often lighten the situation and say call me Bud (his well known nickname) out here, because he didn't want to draw civilian attention to himself. Military protocol is definately a good thing and should be followed, there are situations where it can be loosened, but it should be at the request of the senior member, and not something taken for granted by the lower ranked member.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2022 11:59 AM

2022-01-23T11:59:23-05:00

Whether you are in uniform or not, if he is aware you are an officer he should address you as sir.

Response by SrA Travis Ebmeyer made Jan 23 at 2022 1:46 PM

2022-01-23T13:46:34-05:00

I can kind of understand if this individual had just came home from war time overseas tour? I believe whole heartedly in earned respect, but being from the SF community i feel anything i have to say to this, i have on many occasions, failed to adhere to at some point in time during my AF career as a PJ.

Response by PO2 Don Scott made Jan 23 at 2022 2:02 PM

2022-01-23T14:02:43-05:00

Yes, it is appropriate to correct the individual. He should be upheld to military standards.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jan 23 at 2022 3:08 PM

2022-01-23T15:08:50-05:00

Yes.

Response by CPL William Koscher made Jan 23 at 2022 3:09 PM

2022-01-23T15:09:51-05:00

As long as he gives you the respect due to you in uniform, and on duty, I would give him enough respect to correct in private. Even when you're partying with him, enlisted know what we know. Respect all and it doesn't become an issue.

Response by PO1 David Haney made Jan 23 at 2022 5:06 PM

2022-01-23T17:06:53-05:00

Outside of work I don't think it matters if the SPC doesn't call you Sir. However on base or a military setting a SPC needs to show Respect.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Jan 23 at 2022 5:37 PM

2022-01-23T17:37:33-05:00

Hell yes just like in the Marine Corps when a Marine calls you SARG eat them alive. Same with Officers in any branch there is a rank respect it.

Response by TSgt John Sorensen made Jan 23 at 2022 8:20 PM

2022-01-23T20:20:09-05:00

If he knows that you are an officer, then proper military courtesy should be observed, no matter when or where it happens.

Response by TSgt John Sorensen made Jan 23 at 2022 8:28 PM

2022-01-23T20:28:43-05:00

Yes. If the E-4 KNOWS that you are an officer, then proper military courtesy should be observed no matter where or when it happens. I can only remember one occasion where this was an issue during my career... A fellow NCO completed his college degree and went on to receive a commission. He came back to duty as a 2nd Lt before being reassigned to another base. We had worked together as equal ranks for nearly two years, and it was hard to remember to call him "Sir" when we were on duty.

Response by COL Frank Siltman made Jan 23 at 2022 9:29 PM

2022-01-23T21:29:11-05:00

Is this really a question? Absolutely light them up. Standards and professionalism, customs, courtesy, respect. If you don’t correct mistakes you endorse them and our professional culture suffers from weak knee leaders who let it slide.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jan 23 at 2022 11:03 PM

2022-01-23T23:03:20-05:00

I hope you do, afterwards have him do 50 pushups, and have him apologize, made next time he'll remember how to address an officer

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2022 2:39 PM

2022-01-24T14:39:57-05:00

Saddened that you have to ask the internet this question. Sqash it! I would not have allowed that when I was Sergeant, let alone an officer. The fact that they even try to do this speaks volumes about their training and discipline or the lack there of. Before you grill them check yourself. Are you putting out the vibe that this is OK? What kind of social setting are you sharing with them? Maybe you need a change of scenery.

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Jan 24 at 2022 3:20 PM

2022-01-24T15:20:34-05:00

You should always, regardless of rank should be corrected, this is because the proper military standards and regulation TC 3-21.5 is to instil proper military bearing and behaviour on all soldiers from the enlisted to senior officers just alike. Furthermore, one thing is to care for your soldiers another thing is to become buddies with them. Such behaviour from an officer can be reprimended.

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Jan 24 at 2022 3:28 PM

2022-01-24T15:28:03-05:00

Regardless, on or off-duty, of enlisted proper addressing to an officer before and after each sentence is with Sir or the rank Captain. This is in accordance with TC 3-21.5 "Drill and Ceremonies." Even privates if they are unaware they need to be corrected on the spot, if not by you, then by an NCO as I did. Remember you're running for a popularity contest but a commissioned command as a "Captain."

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2022 9:13 PM

2022-01-24T21:13:52-05:00

If your the same age as said SPC, yeah hey man is aight

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2022 9:02 PM

2022-01-25T21:02:59-05:00

The Soldier said this 'Outside work' It is not a requirement to call you sir while outside of uniform. Yes, it is a polite thing to do but not required. There is nothing wrong with him talking to you like a human and not like a robot.

Response by MAJ Kevin Miller made Jan 26 at 2022 7:33 AM

2022-01-26T07:33:21-05:00

If you accept that behavior you just lowered the standard. Do you want to be that person who contributes to further lowering the standards in the military? Seems to me far too many people have done that to our military already.

Response by SgtMaj Anthony Goss made Jan 26 at 2022 8:49 AM

2022-01-26T08:49:46-05:00

The short answer respect, customs and courtesies doesn't end at the end of the day.

If they respected you as they should, this wouldn't even be a discussion!

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Feb 23 at 2022 8:00 PM

2022-02-23T20:00:03-05:00

Light his or her behind up. You have earned your rank correct? You should be addressed as the proper rank. Buddy or not. He or she needs to know when we are in uniform you WILL address me as Sir or Ma'am. When we are on our personal time or in civian clothes away from our uniform its a different ballgame then. I know for me I have had plenty of officers that retired and still to this day I address them as Sir or Ma'am. Even when they say I am not in anymore no need for that. For me its a respect factor. Have that person write you an essay on why it's important to address your peers or others by proper rank.

Response by PFC Eric Stosius made Feb 25 at 2022 6:01 AM

2022-02-25T06:01:58-05:00

Well, Officer Hayman, what does your gut tell you?

Response by MSgt Donald King made Mar 3 at 2022 1:25 PM

2022-03-03T13:25:26-05:00

If you don't step on him hard, he will not get the message.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 3 at 2022 1:57 PM

2022-03-03T13:57:24-05:00

I’m a retired LTC and when I happen to engage with a person of higher rank I still render proper respect and courtesy regardless of being in uniform or not, until the individual states the recognition is unnecessary .

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 3 at 2022 2:00 PM

2022-03-03T14:00:05-05:00

I have a female cousin who was married to a service member who was a 1st SGT. Even though I was a retired LTC I always referred to him as 1st SGT. Even at family functions. Just seemed he deserved it

Response by SP5 Claudio Razzetti made Mar 7 at 2022 12:31 AM

2022-03-07T00:31:08-05:00

humm , i had an experience when one of my fellow Nco,s invited me to his daughters birthday party , he also invited our LT and his family since they had kids their age , i greeted the LT by hay sir ! he shakes my hand and quietly lets me know to call him Robert by his first name ,that never happened to me but i guess he was there as an informal situation. He tested me out by asking me a question using my first name and i answered by using his first name. but that was the only time in twenty two years .

Response by SFC Sedrick Henderson made Mar 17 at 2022 4:28 AM

2022-03-17T04:28:37-04:00

You should Correct them in a positive manner and if it continues let their NCO know.

Response by SGT David Irons made Mar 17 at 2022 1:13 PM

2022-03-17T13:13:26-04:00

Sir, with all do respect if you do not correct him, I then would have to correct both of you.

Response by CAPT John Groeschel made Mar 17 at 2022 2:29 PM

2022-03-17T14:29:33-04:00

Correct them immediately…. Who wants to follow someone known as “hey man.” Mutual respect is the key…likewise you need to be respectful and professional to everyone regardless of rank…hey man is disrespectful and unprofessional and if not dealt with will poison your ability to effectively lead…

Response by SPC Bob Tolford made Mar 17 at 2022 5:41 PM

2022-03-17T17:41:02-04:00

Definitely nip that E-4 idiocy in the bud and correct him on the spot.
When I was an E-4, I would never have dreamed of addressing an officer without using "Sir" or (in your case) "Captain".

Response by SGT Paul Albert made Mar 17 at 2022 6:44 PM

2022-03-17T18:44:15-04:00

"hey man" is something an E-4 uses to address his peers. I never considered any officer as peer when I was part of the E-4 mafia, so my E-4 mentality suggests you take the soldier aside, and politely but firmly explain the difference between an "acquaintance" who is an officer 24/7, and a "peer" who is enlisted 24/7.

Response by SPC Leatrice Davis made Mar 18 at 2022 6:10 PM

2022-03-18T18:10:23-04:00

Respect Respect. It doesn’t matter on or off duty. When I was in I was a soldier on and off duty. I addressed my superiors as Sir or Ma’am.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 18 at 2022 6:33 PM

2022-03-18T18:33:41-04:00

This SPC obviously has no military bearing or doesn’t care. He needs to be corrected. I know retired generals and CSM and would never address them in the familiar. We do not have that type of relationship and will maintain military bearing until they invite me to a more familiar relationship .

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 18 at 2022 6:37 PM

2022-03-18T18:37:15-04:00

Also, you refer to off duty as outside work. Got news for you 24/7 in or out of uniforms, on or off base, you are in the Army. You don’t punch a clock you serve your country and so does the SPC.

Response by LTC Ray Buenteo made Mar 18 at 2022 6:41 PM

2022-03-18T18:41:41-04:00

I’m still stuck on the “outside work.” You do realize you are in the Army?

Response by SPC Larry Spiller made Mar 18 at 2022 7:15 PM

2022-03-18T19:15:33-04:00

I don't know what you two are doing outside of work together, so it's hard to say. Sir, I'm open, pass me the basketball? In that case, hey man is fine. I bowled with some Officers and Warrant Officers regularly, Hey Chief or hey Major, you're up, beer frame at that! That showed enough professionalism and courtesy for the situation from me. They usually addressed me by just my last name for ease of conversation while bowling. That was professional and courteous enough for me. Hey man, might have an appropriate place in time to use, sparingly.

Response by SCPO Rick Hunter made Mar 18 at 2022 8:55 PM

2022-03-18T20:55:42-04:00

Yes Sir you should correct him. There's truth to the old say, "Familiarity breeds contempt" and it's in keeping with Good Order and Discipline. I was Navy, assigned to Marine units for half my career so my experience may be slightly different. Even outside work hours though my Sailors addressed me as "Senior" Marines usually addressed me as Doc, which I knew was (still is) a sign of respect. But yes, please Sir, by all means correct him. "Hey dude" does not cut it.

Response by CPO O'shay Morris made Mar 18 at 2022 9:00 PM

2022-03-18T21:00:55-04:00

He should address you as he would if you were in uniform.

Response by SSG Jerry Chaparro made Mar 19 at 2022 9:52 AM

2022-03-19T09:52:45-04:00

Sir, All due respect. Yes, you need to actually put him at attention and remind him of his violation of not recognizing you as an officer and address you correctly in and out of uniform.
That SP4(E-4) is showing disrespect. To the rank AND person! That's why he or she is still an SP4 and probably most likely at the retention limit of his military career I would think.
That is what I see all the time in the military. The self-discipline and ethics have seemed to be lost.
Don't get me wrong, I have been retired since 1997. But, I am now at the end of my 25 years as a military defense contractor as well.I have continued to" Support the WARFIGHTER " in any way
I can.
But, I really hope that this issue is corrected.
Take care, sir.
My best to you
Jerry A. Chaparro Sr.
US Army Ret,
Defense Contractor

Response by PO2 Christopher A. made Mar 19 at 2022 12:27 PM

2022-03-19T12:27:44-04:00

I'd say that's "Hey Lt." or whatever your rank is. He will get the message without thinking you are a hard ass. If it continues maybe formal counseling.

Response by MSgt Thomas O'Rourke made Mar 19 at 2022 12:54 PM

2022-03-19T12:54:13-04:00

This should be dealt with tactfully and on the spot with demonstrable’ resolve. Our military survives through it customs and courtesies and those who fail to uphold them need to be taken to task. Our leadership is already failing us as they cater to political ambitions so we need the NCO corps to take charge of OUR military!

Response by SMSgt Anil Heendeniya made Mar 19 at 2022 3:10 PM

2022-03-19T15:10:00-04:00

I'm shocked you felt you had to ask that question. As a captain, you should already know the answer to that.

Response by SP5 John Rivera made Mar 19 at 2022 6:07 PM

2022-03-19T18:07:06-04:00

You are an officer and a gentleman in garrison/ field or even off duty. You don’t stop being an officer until you are in the grave. Hope this helps

Response by SN William Culotta made Mar 19 at 2022 6:13 PM

2022-03-19T18:13:09-04:00

Absolutely! Even when I was in Nam and still continued to be an anti war thorn in the side for the Seabees I still showed respect for those who deserved it but always said sir to an officer. That's what you do, for normal politeness and respect! That boy needs to be straightened out.
Bill Culotta

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Mar 19 at 2022 6:36 PM

2022-03-19T18:36:54-04:00

If you don’t correct him he will only get worse. He needs to be put in his place and understand his role.

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Mar 19 at 2022 6:41 PM

2022-03-19T18:41:48-04:00

SFC O'Mally et al nailed it. If you are a senior ranking officer/NCO and you recognize the individual as such, than you address him/her as "Sir", "SGT", "PO" or "Gunny", depending on the branch. Conversely, it is up to all officers and NCOs to dress, groom and present themselves accordingly when in public. As an officer when I was off duty I knew that it was hypocritical for me to expect the respect of airmen if I didn't warrent it. It may have changed in the past 50 years, but AFM 100-45 would have had the answer here and it was found under "Leadership.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2022 8:26 PM

2022-03-19T20:26:11-04:00

YES u should have corrected not only this person but anyone else that u out rank. hey is a sign of disrespect.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Mar 19 at 2022 8:48 PM

2022-03-19T20:48:00-04:00

My First Question is does he Know you are a Officer?

my Second Question is are you in a Friendly area?

if he calls you sir is he Putting You and himself in danger?

If the Answer to the First Question is No,
then you can Politely Correct him, if doing so does not put you or him in danger.

if the Answer to the First And Second Question Is Yes, Then you have two options,

1st) you can Politely correct him, if doing so does not put you in danger,

2) you could Light Him Up, At Work, First thing after Morning Colors, With his Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Master Sergeant, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, Command Sergeant Major, Sergeant Major of the Army if he is Available. Light up his World, send a message thought-out the base. this will no longer be Tolerated. why have so many in his command there ? simple it sends a clear and strong message , this will not be Tolerated.

why so many SSG from his command? Simple , more the merrier, after they are done dressing him down and Lighting Him up, let him spread the word though out the base, that the command Is not, WILL NOT Tolerating Disrespect though out the ranks.

let him tell everyone that they will give the proper greeting of the day on or off base! Tell everyone That they must take pride in there uniform appearance! and in doing there job! take Pride in being in Military service!

everyone will and Must show it by taking pride in themselves, in there uniform Appearance, they will help there Fellow Solders, Sailors, Marines and Coast Guard's Men & Women .
this is where Pride Starts, in Uniform Appearance, in taking Pride in one self , in ones services, to Country, This is why there is Little To no Bigotry, Racism, Fascism, Sexism in the united States Military service, if and when any of this is found it is Thoroughly Investigated, the Individual, or Individuals who are accused are given there rights, if convicted, they are Arrested and placed in Prison. the TRIAL IS PUBLIC SO EVERY SINGLE MILTARY MEMBER CAN SEE WHY YOU DO NOT DO THESE CRIMES. I know I Digressed A bit Sorry .

Response by Maj Ted Mc Neel Sr. made Mar 19 at 2022 11:20 PM

2022-03-19T23:20:12-04:00

Dam right correct him. He should never get away with saying that to a Staff NCO much less an Officer. Soon he will quit saluting. . . the sign of respect between an Officer and Enlisted personnel.

Response by SrA Kelly P. made Mar 21 at 2022 3:34 PM

2022-03-21T15:34:49-04:00

Coming from a former USAF E-4, the only answer to this is YES. I believe that HOW you do it, will be the key thing, however, yes, it needs be done. Good luck, Sir!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2022 7:18 PM

2022-03-21T19:18:44-04:00

You should correct him, you’re not friends, and plus the rank there’s matters when you are talking to superior. Or get and NCO smoke him for you.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 21 at 2022 7:36 PM

2022-03-21T19:36:32-04:00

Damn straight he should be corrected. In or out of uniform, customs and courtesy of the service should be maintained. Just because you aren't aboard the base doesn't change your or his rank. Would you expect a captain to say hey man to a general if you met in a bowling alley? If you regularly socialize, which you shouldn't, and you give him a pass to call you by your first name that privilege should only apply when you and he are in private situations not in public.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Mar 21 at 2022 8:17 PM

2022-03-21T20:17:24-04:00

Damn straight he should be corrected. Being on or off duty does not change your or his rank and the customs and courtesies of the service should be maintained. Would you expect a Major to address a general officer with "hey Man" if they met in the bowling alley? If you and he regularly socialize, which you shouldn't, and you allow him to call you by your first name it should only be in private and never in a public setting. The correction should take place in private out of the public view and should be done as a reminder, not as a rebuke (the first time).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2022 9:37 PM

2022-03-21T21:37:57-04:00

Well sir if you don't correct him like others have said you will be making a new standard an that is not what the army is all about of if you feel uncomfortable correcting that soldier then find that soldiers NCO because it's thats NCOS job to inforce standards in the military even if thats not that soldier direct supervisor it's called General Military authority.

Response by PO1 Mike Meehan made Mar 22 at 2022 12:27 PM

2022-03-22T12:27:48-04:00

We teach what we allow.

Response by SFC Michael Baney made Mar 22 at 2022 3:36 PM

2022-03-22T15:36:25-04:00

NO ONE in the military should be saying HEY MAN.

Response by PO2 Ronnie Chandler made Mar 22 at 2022 6:16 PM

2022-03-22T18:16:14-04:00

Absolutely

Response by SSG William DeCamp made Mar 22 at 2022 6:38 PM

2022-03-22T18:38:28-04:00

I’m more confused as to why a Captain should need to ask for such advice. Is this an example of todays leadership? This is a no brainer or did you not learn this in OCS or West Point?

Response by SGT Thomas Labine made Mar 23 at 2022 10:46 AM

2022-03-23T10:46:14-04:00

Ignore it!!

Response by SGT Thomas Labine made Mar 23 at 2022 10:47 AM

2022-03-23T10:47:41-04:00

Ignore it!! While working and he addresses you with sir is all that matters....

Response by SGT Thomas Labine made Mar 23 at 2022 10:50 AM

2022-03-23T10:50:30-04:00

I've known many officers that outside of the work place always said call me by my first name especially if we were at a club outside the post.... I dated a female officer from my unit and we kept it quiet.....

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Mar 23 at 2022 1:05 PM

2022-03-23T13:05:41-04:00

This might be ancillary to the question, but here is a story from the Title 32 side. I am a member of the California State Guard (the Militia, as mentioned in the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, for the State of California). My first assignment was as Deputy Commander to a Brigade-level unit. I was a Lt Col (CA), and the Commander was a Col (CA). We were chatting in his office, one day, and he invited me to address him by first name. While I readily agreed, I also insisted that (at times) it has to be name/rank (traditional). He allowed me to explain: When it's just him and me, first names are okay. However, if there was anybody else present, I will be using name/rank. The reason is that if I, the Deputy Commander (the second highest ranking person in the unit) shows respect for the Commander, then there is Absolutely No reason for anybody else to not do so.

He sagaciously nodded and accepted my rational.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Mar 23 at 2022 8:49 PM

2022-03-23T20:49:25-04:00

Humm does he realize he is talking to the same person? You did say you don't work together, does he recognize you are an officer? When I was at WR off post you didn't know who. Sounds like it's gone on so long you feel some kind of way about calling it to his attention. Since you have failed to correct it he might feel your ok with it. Since it has gone on for it seems like a while without you saying anything (why don't you call it to his attention), but to blast him at this point are you blasting him because he is wrong or because you didn't correct when you should have? Sir. I agree that when you ignore a failure to meet the standard, You have set a new standard that seems to be the case Sir.

Response by SSgt Paul Millard made Mar 31 at 2022 3:18 PM

2022-03-31T15:18:30-04:00

This cannot be a real question- immediate adjustment, Sir!

Response by Cpl John Schmitt made Mar 31 at 2022 3:45 PM

2022-03-31T15:45:31-04:00

Hello YES

Response by SGT Joshua Haycox made Apr 5 at 2022 11:42 PM

2022-04-05T23:42:28-04:00

I have always thought of the LT as the mother of the platoon. Daddy was always an enlisted member and should be doing the discipline. You should probably talk with your NCO's and let them know there is a discipline standard and to make sure the soldiers are adhering to it. Basic customs and courtesies are a bed rock for disciplined soldiers. Let the NCO's handle it, but correct him with a Sir, if it comes out of his mouth. If you dont they wont see you as a superior.

Response by SN Michael Smith made Apr 9 at 2022 10:13 AM

2022-04-09T10:13:00-04:00

I would tell him that when we are both off duty it is a common courtesy to call me Mr. R, NOT "hey" or "hey man". I am just going with what I was taught growing up as a Navy BRAT and the interactions my E7 father had with officers that were not always in his direct chain of command.
As a member of the U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps, I was again told that when people were off duty it was fine to refer to them in civilian terms.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2022 12:14 PM

2022-04-17T12:14:48-04:00

Correct in private, praise in public.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Apr 17 at 2022 2:20 PM

2022-04-17T14:20:04-04:00

Uhhhh, ? If you really don't know the answer to that, you should immediately resign your commision.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Apr 17 at 2022 9:58 PM

2022-04-17T21:58:04-04:00

Should You Correct Him?
Holy Shit, That Shouldn't Even BE A Question....BUT, Since You Asked. ..
"OH HELL YES"
Immediately After Kicking His Ass.
Providing You Were In Uniform.
NO Other Reason Is Acceptable.. ZERO

USAF 1961 - 1965

Response by TSgt Jonathan (Chris) Watson made Apr 17 at 2022 9:59 PM

2022-04-17T21:59:45-04:00

Is this a serious question? Unless you are Guard or Reserve, and even then it should not happen IMO, then you are undermining your own authority and, frankly, the authority of every O, WO, and NCO in the eyes of this punk. You don't have to be an obnoxious ass but you can and you are OBLIGATED to correct this troop. Furthermore, offense intended, WHY THE F**K DO YOU EVEN THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED HERE?!!! WHAT KIND OF OFFICER AND LEADER ARE YOU TO LET THIS SLIDE AND TO NEED THE CONSENSUS APPROVAL OF OTHERS? Frankly, the greater problem is you. Man up and be a leader that demands and earns respect, first by your office and then by your personal merit.

Response by SGT Willy Stanker made Apr 18 at 2022 2:01 AM

2022-04-18T02:01:45-04:00

If he doesn't work for you and you aren't even at work, don't bother to correct him. Don't be "that guy". Honestly, this sounds like a question a 2nd Lt or an ensign would ask. Don't try to be captain America outside of work when people are just being people. There's no need to throw rank down people's throats all the time, especially when you're not even working. I can understand if you were an admiral or something important, but as I said, this sounds like an 0-1 asking. And honestly, you should probably worry more about how you address NCO's outside of work than how an E-4 addresses you.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2022 2:17 AM

2022-04-18T02:17:20-04:00

O-1 to O-4 I can create a good relationship with if they're willing. If they demand customs 24/7 then I can't say that I'd be privy to them. Can't respect the person after that, only the rank, and only if you can find me again, because I would make it out of my way to never speak to or see that officer ever again.
O-5/O-6 can be casual with me, but I would still stand professionally and speak to them professionally. Some casual language may slip between the cracks. Same rule about them demanding C/C as above.
Generals are balls to the walls customs and courtesies 24/7, but since I never see or interact with them, I can't really say. I've spoken to my CG once while on DIV staff duty casually one time, as he just wanted to small talk with us. Really liked him after that!
It depends on the relationship you want to make with your soldiers. Do you want to demand C/C and seem like an a** and the similar minded ENL members won't be privy, or build a relationship with your soldiers and really be a leader that your soldiers can be comfortable talking to and trusting. Obvious disrespect should be corrected, not the soldier showing you that they like you/respect you. If I say to my 1LT "Hey sir, how was your weekend" he tells me, and I respond "yeah man, I was up awfully late last night working on my project", that's obviously NOT disrespectful. I would be showing him that I am comfortable talking to him. If he demanded standing at attention and calling him sir, I would only ever go to him if I NEEDED to. I would never want to small talk, or speak to him about my personal life, ever! As I said, ots whatever relationship you want to have, really.

Response by SGT Abdul Lopez made Apr 18 at 2022 8:23 AM

2022-04-18T08:23:34-04:00

If you are outside of work. You are a civilian. There is nothing wrong, with addressing you as a civilian. Now when you are both in uniform and at work. It is mandatory for the SPC to salute you and address you as Sir. You earned that right. That is a sign of respect.

Response by PV2 Robert Grant made Apr 18 at 2022 9:53 AM

2022-04-18T09:53:26-04:00

Absolutely, even after separation we as Soldiers are still bound to Our Oath, Sir

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2022 12:35 PM

2022-04-18T12:35:20-04:00

I find it interesting how many people advocate for yelling at another service member in public. It doesn't matter what your rank is and their rank is, that is unprofessional and makes us look bad to the American people. I'm not a touchy-feely guy, I'm just a very big advocate of not being a dick. It also undermines your Authority to unnecessarily be discourteous. You can absolutely be professional and teach some of the proper way without raising your voice. The best response is to keep talking to the kid and then professionally correct him at an appropriate time in the conversation. Also, if you want to talk about professionalism you need to have the professionalism to read a sentence. The first sentence says outside work, and too many people just come out and say I assume this is at work. You cannot enforce one standard will neglecting others.
This is actually a very good teacher will moment, as many as pointed out, because his unit might how that is an okay thing to do in their culture. The right thing for you to do is to make sure he knows that not all units are like that so that he is not lit up by sergeant major and Colonels they are on.

Response by CPO Kim Hanthorn made Apr 18 at 2022 1:49 PM

2022-04-18T13:49:23-04:00

WEAK LEADERSHIP MAKES FOR A WEAK MILITARY. There is a Chain of Command for a reason. Fraternization WILL NOT BE Tolerated! BUT while I was at Ali Al Salem Kuwait, I seen Air Force Enlisted calling Officers by their first names. I seen it, and I heard it and it made my head about explode.In the Navy if I heard this, I’m putting my foot up the enlisted and the Officers asses. I’ve gotten into an argument with a full Bird Colonel before. The United States Navy gave me a job to do, and by God I’m doing my job to the best of my ability. FRATERNIZATION WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Response by SSgt Mathew Cummings made Apr 18 at 2022 2:51 PM

2022-04-18T14:51:49-04:00

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink... however from time to time you may have to near drown them to prove a point"

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Apr 18 at 2022 4:16 PM

2022-04-18T16:16:43-04:00

The obvious answer is to correct him -- firmly! In fact that answer is so obvious that my first thought was much like several other responses questioning your leadership.

But perhaps there is more to this question that isn't immediately obvious.

What is this "outside work" situation -- is it some sort of off-duty military activity like working out at the post gym or is it a purely non-military activity? How does everyone else address you in this situation? Where did the two of you first meet, would he have known you were an officer when you first met, and did you know he was a SPC when you first met? Let's say, for example, that the two of you first met playing in a pick-up basketball game on a community basketball court in the civilian subdivision where you both happen to live, both in civilian clothes, with no reason for either to know the other is in the Army... This would set a very different starting point and require a different approach to reach the same solution.

Or we could try a different starting point. Suppose that pick-up basketball game was on post, you're in PT gear out for a run when you come across a small group of soldiers playing basketball, you decide to join the game. So, the SPC still doesn't know you're an officer -- you're acting like just-one-of-the-guys and that's exactly how everyone is treating you. Same problem, but now it's clearly all your fault.

The bottom line, however, remains that the situation cannot be allowed to continue; the difference is in how YOU would go about correcting the situation.

Response by CPL David Hanchett made Apr 18 at 2022 7:41 PM

2022-04-18T19:41:53-04:00

Especially as a lieutenant

Response by SMSgt Archie Hickerson made Apr 18 at 2022 7:58 PM

2022-04-18T19:58:05-04:00

Captain Railey, there is no way that you can let this stand, every one was taught and learned the standards and respect! Airborne! HN

Response by CPL David Hanchett made Apr 18 at 2022 7:58 PM

2022-04-18T19:58:57-04:00

Apologies, did not mean to send too early.
Especially as a lieutenant if you feel that the issue is something that needs to be addressed, allow the soldiers NCOs to take care of it. If you choose to address the issue yourself don’t light him up over it. As other people have commented there’s a lot of details that people trying to address your question are not aware of. Off post in civilian clothes, he may recognize you but not know where he’s recognizing you from. Most importantly, as a fairly new Lieutenant, stepping too hard on him for something that seems fairly innocent as described is likely to be viewed as an overzealous Lieutenant who is insecure with his authority. That’s not meant to be a personal evaluation of you, just a normal enlisted response before getting their butt chewed by an LT. The SFC Who advised you to approach it with a I’m glad you feel comfortable talking to me but don’t forget to say “sir” response was spot on if you intend to handle it yourself. Just keep in mind that issues of discipline, in general, are best handled by the soldiers NCOs. Let them be the jerks, it’s their job. If the issue is severe enough and the NCOs are not handling it then you can step in. Officers trying to handle enlisted discipline issues without first involving the NCOs usually end up doing more damage not just their own reputation but the reputation of the officer core in the eyes of enlisted personnel. The other thing that occurred to me reading this and the responses after is I am concerned that you felt the need to ask this question on rally point. I’m assuming there are more senior and seasoned NCOs that you work with who would be better mentors and advisers then us random strangers here on the Internet.

Response by SPC Douglas Hearron made Apr 18 at 2022 8:12 PM

2022-04-18T20:12:06-04:00

I keep forgetting when I read these posts that this is the new kinder gentler army. Why this is even a question in here tells a lot. Sad to see the military in its current form lacking the discipline that made us the best.

Response by PO2 Sam Hobbs made Apr 18 at 2022 9:50 PM

2022-04-18T21:50:09-04:00

Long ago, when I was a PO3 (E-4), I was ascending a long set of (outside) stairs at New Londong, CT with two E-3s (from my unit) ahead of me. Two midshipmen were descending, and the two E-3s (deep in conversation) failed to salute or even to respond when the midshipmen challenged their failure to salute (they were already 10 or 15 feet uphill. The only reason I did not salute was that I was the mail petty officer and was carrying mail in packages in both arms. I stopped and apologized to the midshipmen. When I got back to the barracks, I let the two E-3s know they had failed (1) situational awareness - they had been so deep in conversation they never even saw the two midshipmen AND (2) military courtesy.
.
I gave them a choice of going on report or assuming extra barracks cleaning details. They chose the latter. Likely a wise choice since they were awaiting submarine school and going on report would likely have washed them out before starting.
.
The point is that when a salute or other military courtesy is appropriate, it should be rendered. IN OR OUT OF UNIFORM. Obviously saluting is not necessarily appropriate when out of uniform, but respectfully addressing officers is ALWAYS appropriate.

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Apr 19 at 2022 7:29 AM

2022-04-19T07:29:38-04:00

If you need to ask someone else, no don’t correct him. Please start TRS/ACAP soon and leave the service, hopefully it will recover from your time being in it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2022 11:46 AM

2022-04-19T11:46:57-04:00

Absolutely you must correct him

Response by SP5 Wilbert Jennings made Apr 19 at 2022 2:37 PM

2022-04-19T14:37:33-04:00

I still at 74 call men sir and women mam. If I am with family I call by first names or nick name. I don't think rank at home in the family is the same as rank on duty. For sure on duty , one knows that an officer is being addressed use the rank not nouns.

Response by SPC Michael Moore made Apr 19 at 2022 6:07 PM

2022-04-19T18:07:35-04:00

Find out his name and what unit he is in and report it to his NCO, and yes you should correct him

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Apr 19 at 2022 8:43 PM

2022-04-19T20:43:14-04:00

Yes, you should correct the soldier on the spot. You're to be addressed as either sir, or by your rank.

Response by LTC Mike Downes made Apr 20 at 2022 5:55 AM

2022-04-20T05:55:43-04:00

On the spot correction needs to be swift and uncomfortable. Back when we used to wear BDU's and our rank was worn on the collar, I would pull on my collar and say, "Talk thru the microphone, I didn't hear you."
M. Downes, LTC (ret)

Response by SFC James High made Apr 20 at 2022 9:26 AM

2022-04-20T09:26:01-04:00

You are an Officer all the time, just as he is a Specialist all the time, so He needs to address you as Sir or by your rank at all times. If you should take the conversation personal by using his first name then that's a different story.

Response by CSM Guy R. Niles made Apr 21 at 2022 9:57 AM

2022-04-21T09:57:12-04:00

Congratulations Captain, you have set a lower standard. However, it is easier to overcome this than a profound absence of Integrity.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Apr 21 at 2022 4:17 PM

2022-04-21T16:17:07-04:00

You better, and fast. You're an officer 24x7, and he's a SP4, 24x7.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Apr 21 at 2022 4:31 PM

2022-04-21T16:31:11-04:00

I read through some of the responses to this question, and they range in severity from the far left to the far right. Based on the fact that there's so many opinions on it, and only one actual answer (and you know damned well why) makes me fear for my country's safety. If we can't get the basics down like this, it is only a matter of time before we get our asses collectively kicked by somebody who knows what good order and discipline actually is on a systemic level. Holy crap this was scary to read.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2022 4:33 PM

2022-04-21T16:33:58-04:00

So are you still an officer off duty, or do you leave it at the door when you get off shift. Is the SPC still a SPC when he is off duty or is he just a dude. Ugh, YES Gunny speaking here YOU are an officer Sir. Period. This could be handled with "The Look" you can do it. Channel that basic school Chief you had you can do it.

Response by SPC Robert McElreath made Apr 21 at 2022 6:25 PM

2022-04-21T18:25:05-04:00

The Spc. should be corrected. In my 30 yrs, officers were always "Sir and Ma'am". unless they invited a less formal address, off-duty. I always told my subordinates that this was the key.
MSG Mack Ca Mil res (Ret)

Response by SGT Drew Clifton made Apr 22 at 2022 2:29 AM

2022-04-22T02:29:13-04:00

This isn't even a question. I'm a guy who's not overly strict on formalities but this is ridiculous. Officers are ALWAYS to be called sir no matter what. By correcting them you are actually doing them a favor. If they continue to do this eventually they will do it to a psycho who won't be so kind about it or to someone who is offended but won't say anything and rather go tell they're NCO, platoon SGT etc. and that will cause a big scene. Lay down the law.

Response by SP5 Don Lovering made Apr 22 at 2022 7:56 AM

2022-04-22T07:56:35-04:00

Light the troop up, disrespect is not tolerated in the military or anyplace else for that matter.

Response by SGT Blaine Stewart made Apr 22 at 2022 8:10 AM

2022-04-22T08:10:24-04:00

Well considering you are now in the woke joke army, what do you really expect from these undisciplined rejects, most of the people that are in the military today didn't join to serve their country, they joined to get a paycheck and benefits and probably some dumba** sports car

Response by SPC Ralph Ware made Apr 22 at 2022 10:33 AM

2022-04-22T10:33:39-04:00

As a Senior member of the "Mafia" I do apologize for the lack of personal and military respect shown you by this individual. If it was possible to know this individual, matters would be addressed. SFC O'Malley has it straight...this cannot be ignored. Even the "Mafia" has its standards of shamming and that is NOT one of them!!!!

Response by 1SG Lynn Erickson made Apr 22 at 2022 11:05 AM

2022-04-22T11:05:43-04:00

Why are you an officer to begin with? The Army and other branches demand good order and discipline to be successful. Not correcting a soldier who has no respect for authority and rank will call to question your future decisions and orders which could become fatal. Teach the soldier respect!

Response by SPC Juan Servera made Apr 22 at 2022 12:37 PM

2022-04-22T12:37:13-04:00

Yes your not is homeboy respect must maintain at all time!!

Response by 1SG Donald Dillman made Apr 22 at 2022 3:21 PM

2022-04-22T15:21:16-04:00

I had the same happen to me when I was a First Sergeant. Some soldiers would say Hey, First Sergeant. This annoyed me, and YES, I did correct the soldier. I simply said that Hey was not my first name. Retired 1SG Don Dillman

Response by SN Dale "CG" Veach made Apr 22 at 2022 3:26 PM

2022-04-22T15:26:20-04:00

Are you serious...You're still an officer off base and he's still a SPC off base. As long as this person is in, you're the superior and deserve the respect of your rank. If you do not correct him then you are not much of an officer. I still address retired military officers by their rank.

Response by SGT Stephen Arrowsmith made Apr 22 at 2022 4:09 PM

2022-04-22T16:09:27-04:00

Absolutely. You should have him flogged for even considering you one of the rest of us filthy peasants. You are an Officer and. Gentleman in the U.S Army. How dare he.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Apr 22 at 2022 8:29 PM

2022-04-22T20:29:51-04:00

This is simple. If you don’t correct the situation you are at fault. Develop some backbone because this should not even be a question. Respect is earned and this is how you lose it.

Response by 1stSgt Tim Martin made Apr 22 at 2022 11:46 PM

2022-04-22T23:46:43-04:00

It needs to be addressed, because the SPC knows your rank regardless of what you are wearing. The expectation of respect needs to transcend the presence of the uniform.

Response by SPC Oscar Pantaleon made Apr 23 at 2022 1:15 AM

2022-04-23T01:15:27-04:00

No, you’re just an officer. You’re essentially civilians in uniform.

Response by Cpl Carl Crawford made Apr 23 at 2022 10:58 AM

2022-04-23T10:58:18-04:00

Yes sir!

Response by Sgt Tim Greenwalt made Apr 23 at 2022 6:27 PM

2022-04-23T18:27:37-04:00

Definitely need to take action to correct the issue now. At this point I would condemn him and private and praise in public. If it continues then light him up and address his supervisor. Had a 2Lt light up a young troop for calling me Sarge instead of Sargent. After she walked away I just told him to watch how he addressed someone when she was around. She despised me because people had more respect for me than her. Of course she also got a Art 15 for fraternizing/relationship with our young male admin clerk.

Response by SPC Cara Alligood made Apr 24 at 2022 1:35 AM

2022-04-24T01:35:45-04:00

You're worried about someone talking to you as a fellow human being outside of work and out of uniform? Seriously? Go ahead and "correct" the soldier then. Show him that you identify as your rank, even out of uniform.

Response by SPC Thom Ryan made Apr 24 at 2022 8:24 AM

2022-04-24T08:24:51-04:00

We used to say "There's no rank in th bar." But that was a loose saying. However. Military courtesy is 24/7. No enlisted should ever disrespect their superiors, regardless of the situations.
The fact that this is even a question now, only validates my belief that the military has changed. Not for the better. You leaders better get your collective sh*t together, or you're doomed on the battlefield.

Response by SGT Jeffrey Sumner made Apr 24 at 2022 12:17 PM

2022-04-24T12:17:12-04:00

I would correct him. A soldier is always a soldier even off duty. I think the only time it is not warranted is if you are both drinking at a bar for example or if you are actually friends. Sounds to me you barely know him though, so him being so informal is inappropriate. Another note, if he knows you are an officer he should salute you and have all proper protocol when he sees you even out of uniform.

Response by CPL T.A. Nelson made Apr 24 at 2022 12:37 PM

2022-04-24T12:37:12-04:00

While Active Duty, I always corrected any soldier who failed to meet the military standards. I was separated as a CPL E4(P), you never let someone slide on the salute or addressing you properly. When deployed there can be a lack of decorum because the salute is not allowed but you always need to address a officer/NCO as deserved by rank (even if the service member wearing the rank does not deserve that level of respect)...

Response by SSgt James Knowles made Apr 24 at 2022 12:45 PM

2022-04-24T12:45:37-04:00

You really hunting for salutes out of uniform in Walmart?

Response by SP5 Brian Fife made Apr 24 at 2022 10:12 PM

2022-04-24T22:12:21-04:00

Absolutely you correct him.

Response by TSgt Ryan Lee made Apr 24 at 2022 10:51 PM

2022-04-24T22:51:53-04:00

Hey sir would be acceptable, hey man deserves an ass chewing to the tune of something like, “I didn’t know we were drinking buddies SPC, maybe you’d like to also come over to my house and knock back a few.” While then proceeding to remind him your name is’t man, it’s Sir.

Response by SPC William Wilson made Apr 24 at 2022 11:05 PM

2022-04-24T23:05:54-04:00

No bueno, he should be addressing you as sir, even when off duty. While in the military you are on duty at all times and military courtesy and bearings must be maintained always.

Response by GySgt Barnabi Landry made Apr 25 at 2022 1:58 AM

2022-04-25T01:58:44-04:00

Courtesy doesn't stop outside of work. He should be pulled aside and corrected accordingly.

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made Apr 25 at 2022 4:34 PM

2022-04-25T16:34:48-04:00

If you hold any type of rank of any military, you should always set the example. Correct any misbehavior no matter if they are under your direct supervision, you are a leader.

Response by SFC Michael Adams made Apr 25 at 2022 4:46 PM

2022-04-25T16:46:11-04:00

I know this doesn’t answer your question but it’s a funny story. I retired on Fort Bragg(Airborne Infantry). As I was clearing I was walking towards the Soldier Support Center. There was a Full Bird Colonel walking towards me. In the 82nd I say “Airborne and the officer says “All the Way” when you salute. But this Colonel looked so damn young that my brain stopped working lol. I couldn’t reconcile his rank with how he looked, he literally looked 18. He’s staring at me waiting for me to salute him as I approach but instead I stop him and ask him his age lol. He laughed and told me 43 I believe. I apologized and he said he gets that all the time. I shit you not this guy could fucking pass as an E-1 easily. FYI, I question the type of NCO’s you have working in your unit if this is something that is said. Fucking with LT’s is commonplace but there is a limit and certain shit you don’t do.

Response by MSgt Janice Trojan made Apr 25 at 2022 11:59 PM

2022-04-25T23:59:47-04:00

This is easy!
When I enlisted there were 2 answers Sir or Ma'am. Didn't matter if enlisted or officer. When I enlisted there were 2 genders. I hate to think the military wastes a 1-2 weeks explaining 66 genders. Transsexuals I have an issue with them on my back. Sorry to make political I feel so sorry for those serving now. Crazy times.

Response by CPT Derek Wren made Apr 26 at 2022 1:53 PM

2022-04-26T13:53:11-04:00

OK, I feel like the Mad Cop on YouTube lol. I know this has to be a joke and you’re just posting this on here for fun. That being said if you even need to post this question then I will tell you to finish your duties for the day and or week depending on what you have going on while you have free time go ahead and write your letter resigning your commission because you were the kind of officer that I really infuriated me when I was enlisted as well as when I became an officer. If you think that you should not correct this soldier or airman or marine or whatever the case may be and then you your self or part of the problem, and will cause this problem to continue because you don’t fix it. I’ll tell you something I learned a long time ago by NCOs, respect is earned not just given regardless of what anybody says.
I will say that as an officer, primarily as a lieutenant because I came from a transportation company and then volunteered and deployed with an aviation battalion and then came home and volunteered with inventory that I had a different mindset than others. If we were working out in the field my rank is just a title running up and saluting me and service and serve that when the in-state is to complete mission, not to show who the most courteous soldier is, so often times I would be more relaxed with certain customs and courtesies unless there was a higher ranking officer around then do what you’re supposed to do. Another reason I was like this is because a long time ago I had a talk from a MAJ That told me in other words, you need to decide whether you’re going to be enlisted or an officer because you cannot be both. If you just let a man or hey continuously slide then you have chosen to be enlisted and not an NCO but lower and listed and I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with them because I worked my way up from an E-1 to a Company Commander then BN staff. Another way you can look at this which is what I still do to this day even retired out of the military is back when we had respect for uniform and had to shine or boots etc. Soldiers that could not do a simplistic task such as shine their boots, you have to ask yourself what else will they or won’t they do when the time comes. And please understand I use the expression when the time comes very probably but it can apply to anything, but in your particular situation it applies to the fact that if I person(s) continuously calls you incorrectly and that’s just something as simple as changing a few words that come out of their mouth, then what in the world are they doing behind the scenes that you’re not aware of that they’re being told to do but not only you but they’re in CEOs or when it comes time to go to the field or when you deploy in whatever capacity that may be.
I know this seems, who am I line to, I know it is a long message about somebody saying hey man, but you have to understand that regardless of what branch of the service you were in there are customs and courtesies they go way back and they are in place for a reason and yes we, you, the next person do not uphold those courtesies then and I’ll actuality it’s you yourself that are doing a disservice to that soldier as well as the service as a whole because you did not correct an action or behavior which with something within your lane that you could take care of and you didn’t and this will continue on.
One last thing, not sure about you but I busted my ass to become an officer, hell I even volunteered to go to Iraq just to make sure that I would not be light on the right when I became an officer as well as gave me an opportunity to watch good and bad officers and learn from them. Now that I have said my piece I will let the NCOs do what they do best, lead and probably beg to know who the soldier is praying to God that they know them so they can crush their soul lol.

Response by SPC Sean Kennedy made Apr 27 at 2022 3:54 PM

2022-04-27T15:54:18-04:00

Tough one, if it’s outside work but you want to maintain a professional relationship or professional footing then I’m sure all you have to do is ask, I’d say “hey Specialist, let’s keep it professional so I’d appreciate it if you refer to me as sir or (rank)”

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Apr 27 at 2022 11:35 PM

2022-04-27T23:35:09-04:00

Yeah, need to correct that, politely. My favorite comment to enlisted that didn't salute or call me sir: "When did you decide that I didn't earn my commission?"

Response by CWO3 Robert Fong made Apr 30 at 2022 3:37 PM

2022-04-30T15:37:00-04:00

Captain, respect, and discipline are required for obvious reasons. Some "Speedy 4" is not my drinking buddy, and in my case, neither is a 3rd Class PO. I not only would correct him/her, but I'd also jack them up so far up the mast they'd think they were a pennant. Good order and discipline are necessary and required. Do not let a situation like this slide otherwise the subordinate will begin to think that they can let other things slide and that kind of thinking may cost some folks their lives,

Response by PO2 Robert Lee made May 9 at 2022 8:30 PM

2022-05-09T20:30:02-04:00

It would be wrong (too lax) to not correct the E-4. I know things have changed since I was in but Officer/Enlisted decorium should be maintained.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2022 10:51 AM

2022-05-16T10:51:11-04:00

Yes. Politely and privately correct him.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made May 20 at 2022 2:37 PM

2022-05-20T14:37:22-04:00

Correct him or you have established a new standard that you will have to live with

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2022 3:32 AM

2022-05-25T03:32:03-04:00

Sir, if he adtessed you as "sir" during duty hours, but referes to you as "hey man" outside of work. I would not correct him. He/she obviously distinguishes work from personal life. At the end of the day were all human, we all bleed red, and we all fly the same flag. If the soldier does it out of work its fine, maybe even get to know him some. As a SPC in yhe S6, most of the officers I k ow outside of work (and in work) are cool, because they know ill help them.

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made May 25 at 2022 9:32 AM

2022-05-25T09:32:52-04:00

Absolutely!!! You earned that rank. If don’t then you are failing that Soldier and that soldier will do it to other officers. You are doing a favor for that soldier by correcting him or her because there are other officers and even non commissioned officers that will tear that soldier apart for not properly addressing an officer. The other problem that could exist if you don’t correct that is other Soldiers may see that kind of behavior and mimic it. Officers and NCOs should not let things like this slide.

Response by SrA Allan Yates made May 25 at 2022 11:27 AM

2022-05-25T11:27:41-04:00

Yes, correct him/her in no uncertain terms.

Outside of work is 100% irrelevant. He/she still knows you are an officer and is disrespecting chain of command, military tradition and military discipline.

The military is not welfare with uniforms, as far too many gen X, Y, Z, millennials and other slovenly, unprofessional vermin in uniform imagine it is.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2022 2:25 PM

2022-05-25T14:25:07-04:00

As an infantry officer, you should absolutely correct that deficiency. My recommendation, as an NCO, would be to correct him on the spot (with tact) then talk to his first-line (team/squad leader) to allow them to provide further correction. I can't stand when officers correct my soldiers for me and they likely won't either.

With that said, anyone, regardless of rank, should take it upon themselves to correct any deficiency. As long as it is done with respect and tact, it should be well received. "Check down, not up" is not an acceptable response.

Response by SMSgt Anil Heendeniya made May 25 at 2022 7:55 PM

2022-05-25T19:55:14-04:00

I'm shocked you felt you actually had to pose that question, when your response to him should have been instant and automatic.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 25 at 2022 11:04 PM

2022-05-25T23:04:54-04:00

If you do not, you are part of the problem.

Response by SGT Patrick Sullivan made May 26 at 2022 11:14 AM

2022-05-26T11:14:27-04:00

I would say "Yes" "Absolutely"
I was marching my squad to the track park for daily PMCS on our APC, when I failed to acknowledge a "Butterball" traveling the opposite direction. He stops me ....corrected me on the spot. Gave me the military courtesy spiel, then peeled away without returning my salute when he dismissed me.
CSM was witnessing the incident, as I called back to the LT., holding my salute.
CSM chewed his ass out like he was a red-headed step-child.
Maintain your tact, and be sure you are squared away.

Response by Sgt Ed Bowers made May 26 at 2022 11:20 AM

2022-05-26T11:20:32-04:00

One may not respect the person but you damn sure better respect the rank no matter where you are. I flew with several pilots and when we were in the air ONLY they'd tell the crew to use their first name or call sign. But on the ground you always used their rank and last name. Or for those up to Captain you could call them Mr. Brown instead of using their rank.

Response by PO2 Ronald Atkinson made May 26 at 2022 11:38 AM

2022-05-26T11:38:35-04:00

This happened outside of an in uniform or military situation/setting, no harm no foul.

Response by SGT Todd Chemrinow made May 26 at 2022 2:28 PM

2022-05-26T14:28:48-04:00

Yes need to be corrected. Old saying when In doubt wip it out. Being in the Army stationed with Navy, Airforce, Marine Coastguard was always a challenge to recognize diffrent insignias. Was always confused between a navy senior cheif and an Navy Officer but never took offense to being corrected. Only incident I had, was I called a Lieutenant Commander, "Commender ", the LT Commender corrected me informing me he was a LT Commander not a Commander. I did talk to a Navy Captian about Navy protocol so it never happened again.

Response by PO2 Ryan Oakley made May 27 at 2022 6:53 AM

2022-05-27T06:53:33-04:00

Well this kind of depends. Were you uniform for him to actually identify you? If you don't work directly with him as stated maybe he remembers your face but doesn't remember you are an officer. If that's the case then no don't correct him as he is being polite and semi respectful acknowledging you and your service.

Now on the flip side, if you were in uniform or for sure he had no doubt that you are an officer then you absolutely need to correct him.

If you do correct him, do him and your a favor and do it on the side away from people. Don't make him look like a total POS because he might not have been sure you were an officer. Also don't make yourself look bad by chewing his ass infront of everyone like your some power tripping jack wagon looking to make a name for yourself. After all, at some point your life could be in his hands.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2022 7:40 AM

2022-05-27T07:40:47-04:00

not only should you the NCO should lock him up and educate him on custom and curtsy

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2022 10:55 AM

2022-05-27T10:55:34-04:00

YOU sir are an OFFICER and That demands RESPECT. At least That was what we were taught at Basic. It should NEVER EVER Happen. I would Verbally Correct him once then if he Continued, I would Make him drop and push the world. Evidently he Did NOT get the Concept of Rank in Basic and would Have to Give him a Crash Course. Also, who is IN charge of this Soldier and Ask them to Give him a Crash course or The NCO in Charge would also be Taking a Crash Course in Military Ranking system.

Response by SP5 Mike Venuto made May 27 at 2022 1:07 PM

2022-05-27T13:07:28-04:00

Simple in combat you better duck or get a bullet where your bars are... been there... rank is only a custom, war is survival.

Response by SGT David Schrader made May 27 at 2022 4:38 PM

2022-05-27T16:38:42-04:00

If you are both off duty and both in civilian clothes you shouldn’t salute or address each other by rank.
If both are in uniform you definitely use proper military courtesy.
If one of you are in uniform and the other in civilian clothes, it would be proper but not mandatory to address the uniformed individual by rank, but no salute.
Grant it, I have been out of the military for a couple decades. A lot of things have probably changed since than, especially if the military unfortunately goes woke.
God bless you all.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2022 5:40 PM

2022-05-27T17:40:40-04:00

There are multiple ways to approach this and its not necessarily a clear cut answer. Some people are mature enouhh that simply pointing out he should be adding sir somewhere in that conversation may be enough to fix the issue. Some may need to be locked up and informed in a more direct manner. You dont have to be super confrontational or even angry about it. There are situations where a sir could be dropped (youre in a company fantasy football league and he is speaking to you about the games) but henerally, an enlisted should not feel that comfortable. I am in aviation, so we are generally more lax than most but enlisted really should have the good practice of addressing officers as such.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2022 6:55 PM

2022-05-27T18:55:31-04:00

Your first name is “Sir”. End of comment.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made May 28 at 2022 7:44 PM

2022-05-28T19:44:08-04:00

He's got Cpt. bars next to his name.....not a real question. And if it's a real question, he should know.

Response by SMSgt Anil Heendeniya made May 28 at 2022 9:25 PM

2022-05-28T21:25:52-04:00

I'm shocked you feel you even have to ask that question.
You can only lead from the front! SMH

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made May 28 at 2022 9:51 PM

2022-05-28T21:51:00-04:00

Excellent question here. I believe that SPC should've known better that to acknowledge an officer or any officer if He or She is within arms length. Also, it doesn't matter what unit that officer is in, He or She is still an officer and should be shown the proper courtesy of a salute. This goes for other branches as well. It's always a good thing to recognize the officer ranks of other branches. If I were an officer I would've corrected that SPC right on the spot.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 6:18 AM

2022-05-29T06:18:31-04:00

Since he did it outside of work, and out of uniform, it's pretty much up to you. Were the two of you ff base????? Does "on or off base" matter in the Air Force???? Well, anyway, in my day, such behavior, (in or out of uniform, on or off duty, and on or off base), such behavior was SACRILEGE!!!!!....and they could, and WOULD court martial you for "Disrespecting a commissioned officer"....I forget the UCMJ article number. But then, we are talking USMC vs. USAF. The Air Force has always been more relaxed that the Marines.

Another memory that just came back to me: The only ranks that could even MILDLY get away with ANY KIND of disrespect, (towards an officer), were Warrant Officers, Sgt's Major, and Master Gunnery Sgt's., and only because the [usually] large number of years in service it takes to achieve those ranks. In my day, if junior officers had even the slightest idea what was good for them, and their career, they knew better than to cross anyone of these ranks. Typically, back in my day, the ONLY person, (in an individual unit), (in my case, an aircraft squadron), that a Sgt. Major answered to, was the unit the C.O. Group C.O., and Base C.O. were a whole different ball game....for the Sgt. Major. And yes. In my day, if you were an enlisted rank, (even a Sgt. Maj., or a MGSgt.), you still saluted a Warrant Officer when in uniform if you knew what was good for you.

But, again, we're talking Marines vs. Air Force, and this was [roughly] 30 years ago. I am aware that times have changed....dramatically. My next door neighbor is retired Army, and one of his biggest complaints, is how disrespectful the younger generations are, and the serious attitude problem they have. It's one of the several things that convinced him to retire from the Army. Sounds like you're dealing with the same issue. But God forbid we hold the younger generations to the same standards that we were held to. It's not politically correct to do so any more. From what I hear, you just might get written up for harassment....or worse, maybe even hazing.

So, I think I'll close with: Use your very best judgement that you possibly can. You don't need to over-analyze it, but definitely do your best to consider all ramifications....either way you choose to go. Because you should know as well as I do, that if you get it wrong, being an officer, (especially in the society we live in these days), the mistake will follow you around like a ball and chain. But something else that just occurred to me: Was his disrespect intentional???? Or just a relaxed familiarity out of uniform????? With this in mind, if you want to correct him, you might do your best to be nice about it so you don't create any animosity. You also mention that he's not directly under your command, and that factors in as well....in both respect, and disrespect. You can also talk to your peers, and maybe even your superiors....but that's a judgement call on your part. Eg: "How you look in their eyes if you ask them what they would do"??? This is why I hate politics. Anything you say or do, can, and just might, be used against you, because there is also the fact that, as a commissioned officer, (who's been promoted a couple of times), you're expected to know how to handle this. If you go to your peers, or your boss, with this, they must might start wondering if you're fit to command....which brings us back to the issue of respect. In my day, he would have been corrected, and be done with it. Possibly in a nice way, but he would have been corrected....especially when it's between an officer, and an enlisted. Or a top Sgt. and a junior enlisted. But again, we're talking Marines vs. Air Force. Hope I helped....at least a little bit. Sorry my comment got so long. I didn't plan it that way.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 12:05 PM

2022-05-29T12:05:49-04:00

Speaking of corrections, I need to correct my [original] statement. I've never memorized Army or Air Force [enlisted] ranks, and I didn't realize when I made my original comment that SPC is Army, and assumed it was Air Force. My apologies. No offense intended. But then again, that's one of the things I've always like about the Marine Corps. Eg: E-4 was my pay grade. Not my rank. My rank was Corporal....period. But in the other branches of the service, pay grade and rank are interchangeable, and it is something that has always gotten under my skin. Anyway, like I said, no offense intended. I'm the one who made the mistake of assuming in the first place, which is something I should not have done.

That being said, I stand by my original view that the SPC should be corrected. Not necessarily have his ass chewed, but he should be corrected.

Lastly,
Has anyone besides me noticed that this thread was originally started almost a year ago?????
Regardless of what direction things went, this situation was over a LONG time ago.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made May 29 at 2022 1:37 PM

2022-05-29T13:37:38-04:00

You are an O-3, and ask a question like that?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 2:39 PM

2022-05-29T14:39:00-04:00

This happened to me once, as a major in an Infantry Division Staff. I was at a Best Buy or Target or something afterhours.
BLUF: After this Soldier, who knew who I was (DIV PAO), approached me with his friends, showed his ass by saying, "Hey, man, how's it going?", I took his ID, found out who his company commander was, and had his commander report to me to get "my friend's" ID back.
We all make mistakes. Inexperienced and/or uneducated Soldiers will make more of them. It's part of a leader's charter to correct these mistakes with clarity and compassion.
We all make mistakes. Correcting these mistakes is not a waste of time.

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made May 29 at 2022 8:59 PM

2022-05-29T20:59:31-04:00

Absolutely, this soldier needs to be corrected and his chain of command needs to be informed. This is a leadership problem from top to bottom. Anyone holding the rank of Specialist should respect the rank of an officer and understand they are in the Army not out on the street. When I was in we had a saying, 'Never walk by a deficiency." It didn't matter if it was a button not buttoned a crocked head cover or a statement. We are a disciplined uniformed service any breakdown in that discipline needs to be nipped in the bud. After you correct him, you need to find out who his Squad leader is. This troop needs some retraining.

Response by 1SG Rick Seekman made May 29 at 2022 9:44 PM

2022-05-29T21:44:24-04:00

If you are on rally point asking what to do in this situation, and you're an officer?
Resign your commission immediately!

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made May 29 at 2022 9:54 PM

2022-05-29T21:54:35-04:00

You darn right you should dress the up and down. That is just plain disrespectful. Must be indicative of the Obiden Affiliates that permeate our Military now. Won't be long now that you could be Court Martialed for take such action, as you would be "demonstrating your privilege over subordinates". Call me full of it, but it is coming.

Response by PO3 Patrick Armstrong made May 30 at 2022 2:26 AM

2022-05-30T02:26:10-04:00

yes most likely he forgot he is a NCO not a CO. Probably E-4 for 24 hours and barely old enough to wipe his ass without instructions

Response by SGT Miles Martin made May 30 at 2022 7:39 AM

2022-05-30T07:39:01-04:00

Active Duty Soldiers have no issues with that!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2022 12:23 PM

2022-05-30T12:23:13-04:00

You on the spot correct that failure. Then you find his/her NCO and ask them to continue the correction. ALWAYS remember…you are NOT their buddy. Ever, The familiarity breeds contempt. You are their leader. You can not be his-her friend.

Response by SSgt James Mathews made May 30 at 2022 2:11 PM

2022-05-30T14:11:03-04:00

This is starting to be the case time after time now. Training should have started at home many years ago. This is what you get when starting out in life you are taught that you are better than everyone else. I would like to see what would have happened at Fort Knox in 1959 if someone would have done this. Yes, there were some officers that were not worthy of much respect, but you respect the rank. Leaders are not out to be your buddy but are officers to lead. (NCOs also) I can't believe I am reading something like this and the more I think about it the madder I get.

Response by LTC Stewart Mason made May 31 at 2022 1:07 AM

2022-05-31T01:07:41-04:00

Respect is critical in all relationships. Allowing anything else is unacceptable, and to ever think it is optional cannot be tolerated. Military and Civilian relationships thrive when respect is upheld and maintained. If you do not care, then they will not care.

Response by LTC George Monsson made May 31 at 2022 2:33 AM

2022-05-31T02:33:21-04:00

"That's 'Hey, Captain" or "Hey, Sir," nver "man" or "bro" or anything else." Easy correction and not hostile or authoritarian.

Response by SFC Peter Ironrope made May 31 at 2022 7:01 AM

2022-05-31T07:01:58-04:00

CPT Jeff R., I have a feeling you're hanging out with lower ranking subordinate Soldiers on the weekend or evenings. That's called fraternization, and yes you should have corrected this Soldier, in addition stopping hanging out with these Soldiers. It wasn't the first or last time during my military career I found out that a commissioned officer was hanging out with enlisted/lower enlisted Soldiers on the weekend or evenings until they got in trouble, and later everyone knew at that point going forward, lol!

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made May 31 at 2022 12:00 PM

2022-05-31T12:00:20-04:00

I would give him the Five Finger Death Punch and then slowly lower him to the ground. He wouln't ever do it again. In all honesty this type of rank respect is a break down of his command. It can be restored one salute at a time and it needs to be started by the NCO's.

Response by SFC Edward Harland made May 31 at 2022 1:04 PM

2022-05-31T13:04:22-04:00

You should have corrected him on the spot, Officer’s and enlisted are NOT friends! Remember, respect the Rank, not the person! But remember Officer’s, it goes both ways. I have politely corrected a few Officers when they called me by my last name, and it gets them all riled up. A lot of times it a power trip with Officers. If you, as an Officer, address an enlisted man with just his last name, you yourself are in volition of military regs, but there is no recourse for the enlisted guy. What’s an enlisted guy going to do if this happen to them, threaten the Officer with UCMJ action, as a number of Officer’s that have replied to this question say they would do. Going to take you down from an O3, to an O1, because you didn’t call me SPC! There a lot of bad leadership in the Officers ranks! Look up the Regs.

Response by Cpl Jimmy Johns made May 31 at 2022 3:41 PM

2022-05-31T15:41:37-04:00

That would never ever happen in the USMC.

Response by PO3 Alex Bravo made May 31 at 2022 4:55 PM

2022-05-31T16:55:03-04:00

This is a potential storm in a glass of water. It is outside of work and he showed you respect in front of others. You can ask him politely to address you in a different manner outside of work. But the key here is to show that E-4 why you are an officer. You both are service members 24/7. If you demand respect, you do not belong in the officer corps and if you don't correct him, you don't belong in the officer corps.

Response by 1SG Brendan Allin made May 31 at 2022 6:56 PM

2022-05-31T18:56:49-04:00

If the SPC knows that your are an officer than absolutely, he is disrespecting you and your rank.

Response by TSgt Tommy Amparano made May 31 at 2022 7:22 PM

2022-05-31T19:22:57-04:00

Unless respect for your rank means nothing.

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made May 31 at 2022 8:24 PM

2022-05-31T20:24:31-04:00

It's your duty to uphold good order and if I heard a E-4 calling a officer hey man and the officer did nothing . I would be chewing you both out .

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 31 at 2022 10:10 PM

2022-05-31T22:10:02-04:00

CAPTAIN.?
Had I Been You, I;d Probably Have To Kick'Him Through The Goal Posts Of Life.
THEN Stomp His-az

Response by SGT Danny Strzyzewski made May 31 at 2022 10:31 PM

2022-05-31T22:31:10-04:00

I would say depends on context and situation. I worked on a flightline without my top on alot, especially while turning wrenches. I saw alot of faces and didn't know everyone's rank.

Response by CW4 Larry Hampton made Jun 1 at 2022 3:41 AM

2022-06-01T03:41:12-04:00

OUR ARMED FORCES ARE ALLWAYS PREPARING FOR WAR-TIME CONDITIONS. WHEN THE SOLDIER IN CHARGE ISSUES AN ORDER TO A SUBORDINATE DURING COMBAT, NO SLOW, LAX OR INFORMAL RESPONSE CAN BE TOLERATED. BATTLES, WARS AND LIVES ARE AT STAKE.

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made Jun 1 at 2022 8:21 AM

2022-06-01T08:21:42-04:00

You don't have to hit this too hard, but, the next time he does it take him aside and say "it's either sir or (insert your rank here), even if you are off duty".

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2022 11:06 AM

2022-06-01T11:06:39-04:00

You failed to do it at the moment so it’s too late. With that being said, “lighting someone up” should ALWAYS be a last resort. TALK to the troop and explain the importance of remaining professional at all times.

Response by Cpl Jim Tubridy made Jun 1 at 2022 11:46 AM

2022-06-01T11:46:08-04:00

Military courtesy extends to civilian attire as well, at least it did in the 80s. Sounds like this SPC is stretching the regs and needs some education.

Response by Maj Robert Larkowski made Jun 1 at 2022 5:55 PM

2022-06-01T17:55:27-04:00

Oh Hell Yeah.
While it is OK to be friendly, the discipline and respect must be maintained.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2022 9:17 AM

2022-06-02T09:17:33-04:00

By outside of work, I assume you mean off duty and in street clothes. Which if that's the case, unless you can cite verbatim a regulation that requires him to address you by military title while in civvies, you should just let it be. If you are in uniform, then obviously you should correct him. But use some tact in doing so and lead by example in showing some decorum when redressing the situation. Otherwise, you just continue the epidemic in the military of do as I say not as I do leadership.

Response by SFC Michael Barnett made Jun 2 at 2022 1:19 PM

2022-06-02T13:19:17-04:00

ABSOLUTELY! Put him in the leaning rest first!

Response by COL Andrew Burns made Jun 2 at 2022 5:57 PM

2022-06-02T17:57:53-04:00

While I never was one to "jack someone up", I have on occasion quietly brought it to the attention of the individual that they might want to maintain military decorum outside the office as well. I, additionally tried my best not to refer to my senior NCOs by their first name, because it puts THEM at a disadvantage. Now in the retired world , I just say please call me "Drew".

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2022 7:40 PM

2022-06-02T19:40:50-04:00

I always say "hey sir/ma'am/sgt" to any Officer/NCO I know, at least in uniform. Out of uniform, depends on the environment and location I'm in, also if the Officer/NCO is out of uniform. But I would rather be corrected than let it slide because sometimes even I slip up and forget about the basics.

Response by SGT Jeremy Andrews made Jun 8 at 2022 6:25 AM

2022-06-08T06:25:23-04:00

Respectfully sir, yes. Correct him and subtly reinforce it while on duty should you come across him again. Customs and curtesy are there for discipline and this soldier has none apparently nor any respect for the rank you’ve attained.

Response by SP5 Kenneth Neubauer made Jun 12 at 2022 2:16 PM

2022-06-12T14:16:04-04:00

Well I'm not sure how to respond to this
1) you are outside of work is one
2) You don't state if your in uniform
If you are he should he corrected
If not in uniform no because your are off of work which means no rank is involved unless you want to be an ass like some of the officers I've encountered and don't get me wrong my uncle is a retired Colonel and is the nicest guy around

Response by SSgt David M. made Jun 22 at 2022 4:05 PM

2022-06-22T16:05:33-04:00

Depends if you were in uniform or in civvies. If he sees you as an Officer then he should show you the respect that you are due. If you are both out of uniform and off base Hey Man is OK, but you have the ability to acknowledge and respond accordingly. Respect is a two way street. If it is not given then you do not need to respond but if the SPC knows you then he should give the respect that you are due and you should call him out on it. ;-) I SALUTE All My Fellow Veterans!!!

Response by SSG Jimmy Hubbard made Jun 23 at 2022 11:20 AM

2022-06-23T11:20:52-04:00

Yes, you should always show respect to those appointed over you, but as one that holds rank higher than those under you, you should show respect to them as well as a valued member of your team/unit and not just some underling to order around. You'll find when you show their value to you in a positive way, the more they will respect you.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Jun 26 at 2022 1:19 AM

2022-06-26T01:19:39-04:00

A complex situation. Normally you praise in public and go behind doors to punish.
In uniform this requires an immediate correction; on the spot, in public - by the time you’re an O-3 you should know how to “professionally” correct this behavior.
I played both softball and soccer on unit teams throughout my career. The teams I played on had teammates who were from E-2 to O-6; during the game it was usually first name. I don’t ever remember being told to call an O-6 Captain; but off the field and in uniform - proper military courtesies were followed.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Jul 29 at 2022 12:54 PM

2022-07-29T12:54:31-04:00

Absolutely.
IT IS THE MILITARY.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Aug 6 at 2022 5:39 PM

2022-08-06T17:39:40-04:00

This should never happen. I always said to treat everyone with the respect due. I was assigned to an outside duty with a SSGT that I didn't know or normally work with. He used to whistle to get myself and two fellow CPLS and a SGT to come when he needed something. I respectfully asked him to consider the fact that we are all NCO's in the Marine Corps and deserved some respect for that, even if we were not Staff NCO's. I respectfully asked to be referred to as Cpl Howard or even Howard, as I am not a dog. I also pointed out that respect goes both ways and a good leader needs to deserve the respect, and not due to rank only. I think my talk made it to the Captain and I also believe that I was backed up on what I said. The whistling stopped.

Response by TSgt Richard McGaugh made Aug 15 at 2022 11:05 AM

2022-08-15T11:05:03-04:00

I retired in 1982 from the USAF. A long time ago and I would expect I would have been spoken to about it. Had I heard it I would have spoken to the to the young person about it. Also, I would have spoken to the officer had he not respond with a comment of respect due the rank. I found it to be helpful for the officer to be firm, but not belittle the individual. I was guilty to not acknowledging a Lt.
Gen staff car on Westover AFB. I was shocked when he drove around the block to get to a safe place to speak to me about it. He was firm and understood, when I explained I had not realized the car was a staff car in the first place. it was an eye opening experience. Pay attention to your soundings,

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Aug 28 at 2022 2:17 PM

2022-08-28T14:17:53-04:00

You are in officer with the title of "Sir" regardless of if you in uniform or not make the correction or you will always be remembered has "Hey man"

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2022 6:44 PM

2022-09-03T18:44:47-04:00

How else can I say that "YOU" are in the wrong me than he is. Hymn is ass up. That is what's wrong with today's military! Not the junior ranks in the way they act and no discipline, but the senior leaders for not correcting them and holding them to a higher standard. It is all the leaders fault. I could go one for days!!!

Response by SFC Bob Coon made Sep 4 at 2022 11:42 AM

2022-09-04T11:42:06-04:00

Well if I’d done that 20 years ago as a SPC I would have probably been a PFC soon after. I really hope the Military is not turning soft. But at the end of the day I’m retired so not my problem any longer I just hope that discipline isn’t a thing of the past.

Response by COL John Wells made Sep 4 at 2022 10:12 PM

2022-09-04T22:12:26-04:00

If todays officers have to ask that question our military is in sad shape.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Sep 4 at 2022 10:48 PM

2022-09-04T22:48:52-04:00

I think so....

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Sep 5 at 2022 12:17 AM

2022-09-05T00:17:34-04:00

"Excuse me? What did say? Did the Army not teach you how to address an officer? Would you speak to your CSM that way,..." you get the point

Response by MSgt Earl King made Sep 5 at 2022 6:32 AM

2022-09-05T06:32:37-04:00

Correct him/her on the spot, you will be doing them and yourself a favor by preserving the integrity of the rank! And call them to attention when you do it!

Response by Capt Guy Ingram made Sep 5 at 2022 9:23 AM

2022-09-05T09:23:31-04:00

Absolutely...you don't have to be a jerk about it, but stopping the E-4 is the only correct alternative. I had this happen to me when I was a 1st Lt. My comment was "my first name is Lieutenant. At a minimum, use that." I was later advised by my Chief MSGT (E-9) to never inappropriate greetings pass because you would be doing a disservice to yourself as well as the E-4 - he had overheard the entire conversation. Come to find out, there were several people that overheard the entire conversation. You never know who is listening.

Response by SSG Daniel Souliere made Sep 5 at 2022 11:02 AM

2022-09-05T11:02:37-04:00

In uniform? You have an obligation to correct him.

In civilians, on duty? Tactfully correct him. Just because he recognized you at work doesn't mean he remembers your rank in civilians.

In civilians, off duty? A long as he's not being outright disrespectful, and the proper courtesies are shown in the above two scenarios, he has no real responsibility to call you sir or anything of the sort. You wouldn't expect some civilian to treat you with military customs and courtesies, so why would it matter just because you happen to know he's also in the military?

Response by PO1 Glenn Cooper made Sep 6 at 2022 5:04 PM

2022-09-06T17:04:10-04:00

WTF? You are an F’n CPT! Are you afraid of this little POS? That little f**ker should be wish to crawl back into it’s mother’s VJ because his life is so GDamn miserable. Hey CPT, FU on moving under fire to that position, or any other order. Where is this phuk’s NCO’s and why isn’t he being made an example of? How old are you? At least you are diverse enough, wooohoo! Learn Chinese.

Response by PO1 Frank Downs made Sep 6 at 2022 8:46 PM

2022-09-06T20:46:02-04:00

Sorry to say this;
If you have to asks this question, you are not an officer or most important a leader!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2022 12:08 AM

2022-09-07T00:08:06-04:00

Hey man, maybe there’s a bigger issue than how the SPC addresses you.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2022 6:04 PM

2022-09-07T18:04:50-04:00

You're a CPT, and are wondering if you should be correcting a deficiency in military bearing? Allowing it to continue will only encourage further breaches of decorum, extending to him not even acknowledging your rank at work.

Tell you what: find a full-bird you don't "directly work with" but "come across a couple times" in the course of your work. When you next see them in civvies, say, "Hey, man. . ." See how long it takes for your face to be removed.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2022 6:22 AM

2022-09-08T06:22:17-04:00

You’re either an officer or one of the boys. Choose carefully here

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2022 7:01 AM

2022-09-08T07:01:37-04:00

There was a Cpt. I saluted while walking on post and he returned the salute left-handed. I would say something, the SPC needs to respect the uniform regardless.

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Sep 8 at 2022 12:03 PM

2022-09-08T12:03:17-04:00

Correct that SPC!

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Sep 8 at 2022 12:03 PM

2022-09-08T12:03:50-04:00

He knows better.

Response by SGT Daniel Petitt made Sep 8 at 2022 12:08 PM

2022-09-08T12:08:20-04:00

As long as he shows respect for the rank on duty,I’d let it go.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Moody made Sep 8 at 2022 12:47 PM

2022-09-08T12:47:09-04:00

well, formal wise he us wrong and you can correct that, but if you need to decide if it is because he is really friendly and is giving you a shout out be kind on the redressing of how you wish to be addressed. I was an E-5 Corpsman and my duties were called Public Health Office, I went to the Ward Room and Offices calls as well supervised teaching and drills of medica personal in the Sub Squadron,, I was addressed as Mr. by most Officers and called them sir. When with them alone I called them by their first name because they said I could.

Response by Cpl L Ortiz made Sep 8 at 2022 6:13 PM

2022-09-08T18:13:49-04:00

Outside of work, people can call you anything, still... respect in or out of work determines what that person is made of. How life has programmed him/her. In today's world, we are missing way to much respect to each other! Peace...

Response by SPC Jorge Arroyo made Sep 8 at 2022 7:00 PM

2022-09-08T19:00:08-04:00

Are you in uniform? If not, why bother correcting him?

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Sep 8 at 2022 8:19 PM

2022-09-08T20:19:40-04:00

This is a “no brainer”. Definitely and put him in his place in front of his peers if possible to prevent others from duplicating his remarks. Be careful though to ensure you come off correctly and not a over eager because of your rank. It’s about respect

Response by PFC Jeffrey Villarreal made Sep 9 at 2022 9:11 AM

2022-09-09T09:11:58-04:00

yes sir you correct him tell him to get down and do push ups until he corrects himself
you have earned the respect lead by example

jcv
1st 75th c co wpns plt

Response by Sgt Adriane Ramos made Sep 9 at 2022 2:45 PM

2022-09-09T14:45:54-04:00

Why WOULDN"T you correct him?

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2022 10:20 PM

2022-09-09T22:20:30-04:00

This is very disrespectful. I would personally confront him 1 time, and 1 time only. Reminding him that you are a Captain in the US ARMY, and he is a SFC in the same organization. "If you do not respect me as a man, you sure as hell better respect my rank."
Marines are taught to respect all rank in uniform, and out...anyway what is a
SFC.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Sep 13 at 2022 1:52 PM

2022-09-13T13:52:42-04:00

Probably a typo on someone’s part but,,,,,Hey man. When did an E-4 become an officer?

Response by Maj Joan Marine made Sep 17 at 2022 7:10 PM

2022-09-17T19:10:34-04:00

Yes, always correct, reminders of Customs and Courtesies are part of your responsibility as an officer.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2022 6:42 PM

2022-09-22T18:42:04-04:00

Absolutely!

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Oct 2 at 2022 5:55 AM

2022-10-02T05:55:03-04:00

If you don't correct that, you will have a problem later.

Response by SPC Perry Gresham made Oct 2 at 2022 7:28 AM

2022-10-02T07:28:25-04:00

He isn't your friend Sir. He is a trooper that is disrespecting your rank. Next time he does it just correct him. If he doesn't listen Jack his ass up. Respect of rank is important.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2022 3:30 PM

2022-10-05T15:30:37-04:00

Just from an ex-enlisted man, I'd say that it may be harmless on his part. Probably heard that you don't have to address by rank while off duty. He may just be trying to be friendly and speak to you as a person. Proper decorum does state that he should call you Sir until you relax that distinction, however. Otherwise, you run the risk of fraternization.

Response by PO2 Michael Carter made Oct 5 at 2022 6:47 PM

2022-10-05T18:47:34-04:00

If you’re thinking the only thing you can be called is sir? Then your mentality is why the navy is having so many problems. He said it outside work, I’d shit on you outside of work. This kid is doing just fine, you’re a human just like him and you’re no better than him. Do not think you are more than someone, that is not a leader.

Response by PO2 Sam Hobbs made Oct 5 at 2022 11:47 PM

2022-10-05T23:47:19-04:00

It has been a long time since I served (terminal rate E-5), but I would never address an officer (or, for that matter, another enlisted man) by "Hey" or "Hey, You" unless there is some EXTREME circumstance, "Hey, don't go in there, it's a hazardous area." But, I would also use common sense if off base and in civilian clothes. Many have given examples of such situations (on a sports field, for example). Everyone deserves respect. Perhaps it's a matter of old fashioned upbringing, but I often say Sir or Ma'am to contemporaries in civilian life if the circumstances warrant. They key, in my mind, is to show appropriate espect.

Response by SPC Kenneth Harris made Oct 6 at 2022 2:18 PM

2022-10-06T14:18:06-04:00

Absolutely. That's an unacceptable example of a soldier not following proper MCC. He's an E4, he should know all this stuff by now. It ain't rocket surgery.

Response by Brig Gen Joe C made Oct 6 at 2022 5:58 PM

2022-10-06T17:58:01-04:00

Yes. Customs and Courtesy.
I was on Belvoir leaving a meeting and was approaching about 8 US Army 1-2 stipers walking the opposite direction towards me. I was obviously ready to return their salute as appropriate but all walked straight by me (that silver star does stick out BTW). I called out "Gentlemen" and had them come over. I wasn't mad. My first thought is they are Army and no one may have simply explained that the ranks crossover for customs and courtesy. And after talking with them...I believe that was the case. They simply didn't know what to do. I had a pleasant conversation with 8 young men who were willing to do what 95% of the nation isn't. I thanked them for their service and we exchanged salutes. My closing comment was "Just be grateful a Sgt Major wasn't here.

Response by Sgt James Gross made Oct 6 at 2022 8:26 PM

2022-10-06T20:26:15-04:00

Saying that to an officer of any rank is a good way to find your butt in a sling, both with the Officer and either the First Sgt. or commander of your unit

Response by PO3 Steve Kolner made Oct 6 at 2022 8:31 PM

2022-10-06T20:31:03-04:00

May be he doesn't recognize you. Reintroduce your self

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Oct 7 at 2022 9:47 AM

2022-10-07T09:47:22-04:00

The E-4 knows better, should be reminded of his rank and your rank.

Response by SSG Sharon Blok made Oct 7 at 2022 10:10 AM

2022-10-07T10:10:32-04:00

SFC O Malley said it point on!

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Oct 7 at 2022 3:16 PM

2022-10-07T15:16:54-04:00

Lacking the context of the situation....
I would go with a quick, on the spot correction.
Since it is outside of work, I can only assume out of uniform, I would go with a more subtle approach. At least the first time.

Context:
Outside of work,
You do not work with him directly.
Where you in uniform, PT's, or civvies?
Did he recognize you as an officer, at the time?
Was it a formal, informal or casual conversation?
I could come up with more...

Response by SN Walt Boyer made Oct 8 at 2022 9:26 AM

2022-10-08T09:26:09-04:00

I have always enjoyed officer's that believe they are better than enlisted personnel when off base and in civilian attire. If not in uniform and not a direct superior, it would seem more of an ego stroke for that officer to expect a sir or maam. Saying that I will say this, I refer to everyone as sir or maam in public when addressing them because that was the type of respect I grew up with.

Response by SSG John C Quigley II made Oct 8 at 2022 1:03 PM

2022-10-08T13:03:20-04:00

If you are off duty and in civvies even though he knows who and what you are, you might want to gently mention that he should respect the rank difference. When I was on active duty as an NCO, even though others were friends, we still had a certain courtesy between us. I remember that even in this type of situation, I would greet my commander with a greeting appropriate to our situation unless the higher ranking individual told me to address him or her as and gave me a name. Of course, on duty it was Sir or Mam or by rank. For enlisted persons it was Sarge or Sgt. It is sometimes a difficult thing to know how to address someone you know when in civilian clothes, and it is up to you to make the decision as to how you would like to be addressed.

Response by SSgt Jeanne Wallace made Oct 8 at 2022 6:23 PM

2022-10-08T18:23:47-04:00

The fact that you have to ask that question, Captain, says volumes about today's Army. And Not in a good way. I am not sure how it should be handled, but ignoring it is absolutely not the way.

Response by SGT J Dowd made Oct 8 at 2022 9:34 PM

2022-10-08T21:34:41-04:00

Didn’t you go to OCS????

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made Oct 9 at 2022 2:57 AM

2022-10-09T02:57:21-04:00

I’m Old School and that’s how I was Trained. There is a Proper way and Place of doing everything and this must be taught. In my opinion, being corrected by you, one on one with no one else around, would be better and just as effective than while in formation or some other circumstances. It’s a matter of Respect due a superior leaders rank or office, regardless if you respect the individual or not. This is part of the disciplined structure required for the cohesiveness required in a successful and professional Military. Respectfully submitted, Doc

Response by SFC Marcia Smith made Oct 9 at 2022 9:26 AM

2022-10-09T09:26:41-04:00

You should correct him to uphold the standards and pride that is the military.

Response by SPC Rick Price made Oct 9 at 2022 4:23 PM

2022-10-09T16:23:57-04:00

Absollutley. Its disrespectful.

Response by PO2 Timothy Hinds made Oct 9 at 2022 5:07 PM

2022-10-09T17:07:40-04:00

Absolutely. When I was an E5 Navy, Flying crew on P-2’s we were a tight crew. On base in on duty we respected all rank and maintained a reasonable level of decorum. Off base there were some pilots, who enjoyed the company of the crew so we got together to watch football, baseball and just hang out for a few beers. We called him Mr. until he told us to relax and just call him Paul. But we knew better than to take this informality too far and Never on duty. One day in the Tweet Shop, an E-3 who was new to this arrangement called him “Paul” while on duty, and in the presence of higher ranking PO’s. “Commander Paul K.”. Turned like his head was attached to a spring. But before he could speak a word, the E-3 was immediately chastised severely by more senior Petty officers along with sincere apologies. The good Commander was satisfied with this rebuke and let it go, Afterwards the rebuke was piled on with comments like “WTF were you thinking?!” That never happened again as we knew the difference between Paul the buddy and Commander K. , and we didn’t want a stupid kid messing up our situation.

I realize this was not in keeping with official Navy protocol regarding fraternization. But this is just how it was. But we knew as enlisted, never to push the boundaries. We were still able to perform our duties with proper military respect anytime we were on duty. Interestingly, 45 years later I hooked up with the good Commander, I excitedly called him Commander K. but was quickly told “Please, it’s just Paul now”. We hung out and remained friends until his death a few years ago. He was a good man and had the full respect of his subordinates. He respected us as well and never abused his rank ever. But he wasn’t afraid to let you know if you screwed up either. He had no officer friends at the time of his death. But lots of enlisted came out of the woodwork to pay their respects. I truly miss that man and would have gladly followed any lawful order he issued.
.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Oct 9 at 2022 7:17 PM

2022-10-09T19:17:08-04:00

If your in Civilian clothes and off-duty. If they call you Mr or Ms and may have forgotten your last name. Therefore I SUGGEST a POLITE CORRECTION such as "It's Captain R.... "SON" or MISS" depending on the gender of the Enlisted acknowledging you to begin with . This way you showing that you acknowledge them calling you without openly berating them and creating a future problem child for you to deal with.

In my 20 years in I watched a few Officers in the Air and Surface Navy make the mistake of shitting on the Enlisted for a slight like this. Then wind up having to issues of gear being down, delayed repairs and other minor annoyances. This was simply retaliation that the Enlisted can dole out as response without getting punished for their actions by "Malicious Compliance" as a response. Especially if the Officer has over-reached their status to correct a slight with other E-4s and E-5s that can be corrected and accepted as such.

When I was off-duty and in plain clothes; I usually go "Excuse me. Hi Sir or Miss..." to get their general attention to let them know I'm there and was being civil rather than ignore them. It's simply better to give the officers an acknowledgment rather than deal with them being rude because you didn't recognize them.

I had one officer get snotty with me because I didn't recognize her out of her Flight Suit. She lived in 90% of the time I saw her with her. Also her hair was up in a bun and wore those Aviator Flight Glasses that are the flex tint to darken outdoors and bright lights.. I was actually shocked as she was in make up, contacts, a dress, and her hair down to her mid-back. So I was like "UH? I honestly didn't recognize you at all! Ma'am!" She told my E-7 to give me a counseling for it. Then she had supply delays for her flight gear being the last serviced by the shop. Two weeks later she came by with a Subway sandwich and drink placing on my work desk and she was back to her usual place in line vs last serviced.

Since I retired and forgot a lot of the former (Junior) officers I worked with. I happened to see them when I was visiting Norfolk a few years ago and ran across them in the NEX. They stopped to look at me since I had grown a beard and my hair got longer. They recognize my voice but not my face and that's okay. I just call out "Excuse me Sir or Miss..." to get their attention and acknowledge them.

Response by SSG Stewart Ritchey made Oct 9 at 2022 7:51 PM

2022-10-09T19:51:31-04:00

Where were you in Basic Training? It's time to kick ass and take names!

Response by SP5 Harry Logan made Oct 9 at 2022 8:02 PM

2022-10-09T20:02:21-04:00

Correct him

Response by SSG Ramone Bey made Oct 9 at 2022 11:55 PM

2022-10-09T23:55:36-04:00

That Sir is a Total Lack of Respect to you as an Officer !!!

Response by PO3 John DePalma made Oct 10 at 2022 1:49 PM

2022-10-10T13:49:37-04:00

Sounds like a professional seaman or fireman. Maybe, apprentice. Let's get him studying military requirements, take away his rate, or, back to boot camp.

Response by SSG Mark G Smith made Oct 10 at 2022 3:17 PM

2022-10-10T15:17:37-04:00

Were I you, sir, I tell the SPC to go get his first line and bring him/her to me. I would ask the NCO if he/she thinks that "hey, man" is an acceptable way to address an office. Then let the NCO handle it.

Response by Amn E Dewb made Oct 11 at 2022 1:56 PM

2022-10-11T13:56:31-04:00

It does depend on the setting you are in... if you are on station and in uniform then yes correct the person, but if you are friends and are hanging out then i would let it slide

Response by CW3 Joe Woolever made Oct 11 at 2022 4:15 PM

2022-10-11T16:15:59-04:00

As an officer or any leader as far as that goes, should always enforce the standards of conduct and performance. If the “smaller” standards are left without enforcement, you can be sure the standards of discipline and performance will also degrade. It will impact every subordinate and leader in your organization. If you’re having trouble enforcing the standards in a garrison/peacetime environment, you can be sure your organization will fail during combat operations. If the soldier displays this type of disrespect, it may also be a conversation that needs to be had with the soldiers direct supervisor or even his/her chain of command. Good Luck and be the officer that your team deserves!

Response by Sgt Ed Allen made Oct 11 at 2022 9:21 PM

2022-10-11T21:21:19-04:00

If it is in front of other soldier/marines/sailors, then you might pull him aside and remind him of the courtesy due an officer. If it is off base and in a civilian setting, I would let it go.

I had several friends and colleagues who were officers. Even lived with a LT when I was a L/Cpl.

When we were at church together it was first name basis. However, if either of us were in uniform and/or around other marines it was always sir.

Military courtesy is just that. Courtesy. It helps to show professionalism going up the chain and down.

Response by SPC Nicholas Bettinger made Oct 13 at 2022 12:31 PM

2022-10-13T12:31:35-04:00

Outside of work. If you are in uniform yeah. If you're not, no. Like all the officers appointed over me says many times over. Rank doesn't exist Outside of work.

Response by SPC Jason Hurst made Oct 13 at 2022 1:05 PM

2022-10-13T13:05:03-04:00

Just to add to this, when I worked with officers (which were myriad), I always followed protocol and rendered proper respect for the rank. Many of these guys owned homes with me in my subdivision outside of Bragg. When we were all working in the yards and lending out tools, we were just neighbors and friends. Once we were on mission and in uniform that switch was flipped and it was a different environment. Some people can't manage work and home. The officers I worked with loved that I could switch roles without any issue because it makes a huge difference in how you work with others. I've been dressed down by a neighbor at work for dumb stuff that wasn't any fault of my own, but I had the mental maturity to let it roll off when we were at home. I guess it's a mentality that much of society is no longer able to reproduce?

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Oct 13 at 2022 5:02 PM

2022-10-13T17:02:14-04:00

Well sir, in today's military it's hard to properly answer this question. With the PC leadership it seems to me you may get in trouble if you take corrective action. I mean they are now teaching proper pronoun usage, when the only proper pronouns need are Sgt., 1st Sgt. Petty Officer, Chief, private, airman (etc.), sir or ma'am. If it was still the real Army, I would say not only should you, but I believe you have a responsibility to, both for yourself, but more importantly, proper standard and discipline of that specialist. It is always up to senior ranks to enforce structure and discipline, customs and courtesies. I believe also that you are allowing yourself to be disrespected and you should never let that go.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Nov 6 at 2022 4:13 PM

2022-11-06T16:13:14-05:00

Does he know your name? If he’s yelling to you like that, maybe he doesn’t or didn’t remember at the time. I would’ve asked with a smile not to embarrass but still correcting him, “What’s up? Did you forget my name? It’s (say rank & name).” Then carry on the conversation! If he calls out like that a 2nd time, by all means a correction, maybe even a reprimand might be warranted.

Response by SGM Michael Womer made Nov 20 at 2022 7:07 PM

2022-11-20T19:07:33-05:00

Sir, put an end to the nonsense. Anything short of him saying Hey Sir when within voice rage of you is disrespectful , i had a couple of this when I was a First Sergeant that thought talking to the 2LT Platoon Leader like that was okay until I made it abundantly clear if they had career aspirations that would personally ensure they ETS'ed on schedule. There are just some behaviors that start this was and generally do not end well when such a soldier gets promoted, I actually fired a Platoon Sergeant because he thought he could behave like this

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2022 7:20 PM

2022-11-20T19:20:16-05:00

Absolutely. But correct him aside and in uniform.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2022 11:19 PM

2022-11-20T23:19:43-05:00

I would absolutely nip it in the butt now while it’s a minimal thing. The second you let the standard slide once then it will become the norm for that SM. This is one of those take care of it at the lowest level or someone else will.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Nov 22 at 2022 10:29 AM

2022-11-22T10:29:00-05:00

why would he be comfortable calling you "Hey man" out of work? You are not personal friends. Now that would be understandable if he were an old friend that joined the military after you did and ended up in the same vicinity. Explain to him what he fails to see, tactfully first. Make this a teaching and learning moment. Anything else afterward is subject to disrespectful behavior.

Response by Cpl Greg Rock made Nov 22 at 2022 4:21 PM

2022-11-22T16:21:17-05:00

Yes. The military isn't a "job" job, it's a 24/7 way of life. Courtesies and deference don't cease to exist off-hours. Would it be okay for an officer to go out drinking and chasing skirts with "the troops" off-hours? I would imagine not.

Of course, the culture differs across service branches. I'm a former Jarhead, and given the Corps' slavish love of adherence to tradition *and* policy, I assume the way it was is largely how it exists today. Back in "The Old Corps" (which for me was 1987-1991...but it varies, depending on who's talking ;-) ) NCOs and officers were known to not only expect proper deference regardless of time and place, but it was not unknown for off-duty Marines to get corrected for "unsat" civilian attire.

My Dad was career, "old-school" Army. My cousins used to jokingly call him "Mr. Clean" because he'd show up to family cook-outs all cleaned, pressed, and well turned-out even when he was chillaxin'. A couple of older SNCOs in my day would expect Marines to show up looking proper to company keggers...though even they would often relax standards a bit after awhile (like to the point of having to be carried somewhere by junior enlisted).

A lot of guys used to gripe about stuff like "Why do we still have to shave in the field? We're out here in the dirt, we look like hell, be we gotta shave our mugs even when it's freezing cold! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!?!?" It's about discipline. There are always plenty of excuses to let it slip, best practice is to try and police up as many as is practical to do so.

Response by James MacKenzie made Nov 22 at 2022 9:48 PM

2022-11-22T21:48:19-05:00

Before you wrote your inquiry, you already knew the answer. If you didn't think it was a possible problem, you wouldn't have posted it here.

You can choose to deal with the behavior in several different ways, but you don't want to ignore it.

Response by 1st Lt Rick Gauthier made Nov 27 at 2022 12:39 PM

2022-11-27T12:39:27-05:00

Politely instruct this E4 of proper protocol. Then tell him/her this is a one time only offer. We can start this encounter over with proper protocol and be done with it. But this is the one and only time it will be tolerated. My feeling is we are trying to create a culture of respect and not disdain. A serious tail chewing for this first encounter will not correct the issue any better and as an officer you will be regarded as a jerk. Second offense pull out the rabid Rottweiler. Just my humble opinion as a former officer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2022 1:35 PM

2022-11-27T13:35:38-05:00

Sir, if you have to ask this question there are several failures within you chain of command! First, the lack of discipline would be evident, no lower enlisted soldier should address any NCO or Officer in such a manner!

Your failure to understand what’s wrong with setting the basic standards is evident.
The failure for this enlisted soldier to follow protocol is evident!
I could go on, but let’s make it simple. Either correct the bad behavior or accept the fact that your inability to correct this soldiers bad behavior is why it continues.

Response by SCPO Glen Dutcher made Nov 27 at 2022 2:09 PM

2022-11-27T14:09:33-05:00

Remind him or her to say "Hey, man...sir."

Response by CWO3 Bryan Luciani made Nov 27 at 2022 4:59 PM

2022-11-27T16:59:32-05:00

I give them a chance. I reply, "Want to say that again?" Don't let him walk away unless he fully understands he's way off target. Part of the problem or part of the solution. A choice we are each given.

Response by CW4 Todd McElmurry made Nov 27 at 2022 7:22 PM

2022-11-27T19:22:23-05:00

The fact that you are asking this question only represents the decadence of where our Military Strength now resides....

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Nov 27 at 2022 8:28 PM

2022-11-27T20:28:54-05:00

Stop him/her and explain that you are not his buddy

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2022 4:19 AM

2022-11-28T04:19:14-05:00

Grow some fucking fuzz on your peaches and set the damn line. If it bothers you, tell him. Fucks sake "Hey CPL, I don't mind it off duty, but mind your customs and courtesies, I don't wanna be put in the spot to need to address it in uniform". It's a common colloquialism he probably doesn't even notice.

Response by SGT Robert Puster made Nov 28 at 2022 11:26 AM

2022-11-28T11:26:57-05:00

I know this is a year and half old, but I'll throw my experience in as well.

When I was in the National Guard, one of my golfing buddies happened to the the Battalion CO. We had a relationship outside of the Guard, my wife was a small town surgeon and my BC was on the board of the hospital. At the time I was a SPC and he LTC. On the golf course it was first names only, sometimes last names, but mostly first names only. We were just two guys out golfing. On duty, he could call me whatever he wanted to call me, he was the BC. On the rare occasion our paths crossed on duty, I called him "Sir" or "Colonel" and nothing else. The two aspects of our lives never crossed, nor should they have. (on the golf course we didn't talk Army business and on-duty we didn't talk family business) Neither my CO, nor my 1SG, not even my gun crew, knew that I hung out with the BC on odd weekends. It wasn't any concern of theirs.

Second experience, when I was a civilian police officer, my shift SGT was also my best friend. Away from work, drinking buddies, goof offs, etc. At work, "Yes Sgt", "No Sgt", I was a patrolman and he was my supervisor.

I think it comes down to the maturity of the two people. Can they handle BOTH a friendship and a professional relationship. The onus usually falls to the lower ranking person in the relationship. Can they handle that their friend is in charge and when you are at work/on duty your friendship cannot interfere with the chain of command nor the mission. Many people who are on the lower rank side of a friendship cannot handle that.

Response by LT William Pellegrini made Nov 28 at 2022 11:42 AM

2022-11-28T11:42:26-05:00

When this happened to me when we were both in civilian cloths at a store or in a bar or the street, I just went with it. Neither of us are on duty so why make a big deal out of a non-military greeting in a civilian setting. As long as when the E-4 and the Officer are in uniform he shows the required respect. Which I believe he has done. There is also an upside to not making an issue of this. You are showing him respect and that goes a long way when you are in uniform and giving order to get a job done. In this case, no harm no foul.

Response by SPC Eileen Keller made Nov 28 at 2022 5:26 PM

2022-11-28T17:26:11-05:00

If you are having a personal conversation, say you both love to fish and are talking about that, or at a you are golfing together, talking at a church group, etc., then no. If it is in any other kind of situation that means it "work" since you are both in the military and then it most certainly needs to be addressed and quickly.

Response by SGT J W made Nov 28 at 2022 7:35 PM

2022-11-28T19:35:55-05:00

Iiiyyiiyii!!! On-the-spot correction is needed!! Reminds of when the CSM would follow a command staff vehicle displaying a red plate watching for a soldier not showing the proper respect due... It never ended well for that soldier..

Response by SSgt Phil Sutherland made Nov 28 at 2022 11:39 PM

2022-11-28T23:39:27-05:00

Respect is earned. If you don't demand their respect, you will never command their respect!

Response by LtCol Bruce Janis made Nov 29 at 2022 9:59 AM

2022-11-29T09:59:25-05:00

Would you do the same to your battalion or regimental commander? If not, why? Protocol works both ways.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Nov 29 at 2022 5:08 PM

2022-11-29T17:08:56-05:00

I was taught to err to the side of caution. If someone appears to be older than you, the respect of Sir or Mam is not out of line. You may be correscted by a Staff NCO, but it is easier to explain better safe than sorry, and respect is good manners. Hey Maan is zero respect and shows a lack of dicipline.

Response by CW5 Roger Jacobs made Nov 29 at 2022 11:59 PM

2022-11-29T23:59:38-05:00

Correct him. If you don't someone else will and they may not be as nice as you. This is the military. We work in a rank structured environment. Don't shirk your responsibility captain.

Response by SPC Mark Wells made Dec 5 at 2022 7:55 PM

2022-12-05T19:55:43-05:00

In 1995 I was stationed in Sinai, Egypt. I was walking down the street and walked by SGM and a full bird colonel. I acknowledged the SGM but I honestly didn’t see who was beside him. I was taken away by the SGM rank. As I walked by I heard the SGM say come here specialist. I closed my eyes and gritted my teeth. I hurried back to him and he said “Specialist Wells, did you not see the Colonel walking next to me?” I said no SGM I didn’t get past all your rank to even see who was with you. He replied “that’s a pretty good answer Specialist Wells, carry on.” Rank must be respected and acknowledged. You may not like the person, but you must respect the rank.

Response by SGT David Bower made Dec 5 at 2022 8:29 PM

2022-12-05T20:29:00-05:00

Put him in his place. Be brief and on point then dismiss. Since you asked, then you obviously are not his buddy so demand the respect if it makes you uncomfortable. He may not even realize he is out of line. (Kids these days)

Response by SFC Ronald Moore made Jan 3 at 2023 4:36 PM

2023-01-03T16:36:12-05:00

We're you in uniform? Was it in a public setting? Was it an OPSEC not to reveal your identity?

Response by CPL Sean Browning made Jan 3 at 2023 6:40 PM

2023-01-03T18:40:50-05:00

The question is whether or not he seen you in uniform or known you are an officer. First time polite correction is warranted if he still continued the disrespect then a conversation with the SPC unit leadership is needed. Customs and courtesies have been undermined over the years. I worked with officers who were former enlisted often makes the best officers. If the SPC is outside chain of command not much can be done but it is up to his leadership to correct the behavior. I was combat arms and often trained with officers all the time . But I also learned that some people will always refuse to change certain behavior.

Response by SFC Fernando Campos made Jan 3 at 2023 8:23 PM

2023-01-03T20:23:20-05:00

I would have put my jump boot so far up his fourth point of contact, it would have taken a combat engineer to dig it out. NEVER, EVER, allow such insubordination.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2023 12:57 AM

2023-01-04T00:57:06-05:00

Sir, absolutely you should correct him and if it becomes and ongoing problem you should let his hardest E-5 Sgt know and if it doesn't correct from there charge him.

Sure, we all B.S. behind closed doors about officers and enlisted, but fact is no enlisted dude does what officers do.

I was a Marine for 8 years and army for 6.. OCS IS NO FUCKING JOKE!!!! IVE RAN BOTH COURSES and I've been privy to sit in on training with them.

Sir, correct his ass, if he doesn't you need to take it to highest degree because you earned your rank and your position without question... Even if your junior doesn't respect you they MUST RESPECT THE RANK ... Zero question, even if your a shitbag officer, (not saying you are) but that is ZERO REASON to disrespect what you have earned and accomplished. Specially by a fucking junior enlisted!!!

Response by SPC David Elzinga made Jan 4 at 2023 2:50 AM

2023-01-04T02:50:23-05:00

When I was in BASIC TRAINING yes SIR no SIR yes SGT no SGT was pounded into us. Even when I got to my unit if I would mess that up I was corrected on the spot
This is simply second nature

Response by CW4 William Kessinger made Jan 5 at 2023 11:19 AM

2023-01-05T11:19:15-05:00

Correct him on the spot. I served in Viet Nam as a helicopter pilot, and we got very close to our crew members. I saw some get too close and had to be corrected. Once while internally hauling new rotor blades in their boxes, I had a crew chief try to tell me had to fly the aircraft. I promptly took him aside (out of hearing of the rest of the crew) and had him come to attention and corrected him as to who was in command of the aircraft. Never had that issue again.

I was enlisted for 7 years (in the AF) before becoming a Warrant Office and later Commissioned Officer. While enlisted I always knew where the friendship stopped. As I was never their friend. I worked in a fighter Sq and got to fly back seat T-33 missions with all most all the IP's in the Sqrn and I never forgot to add sir while in the cockpit.

Response by 1SG Thom Sowers made Jan 5 at 2023 3:23 PM

2023-01-05T15:23:18-05:00

Really? In today's military culture you want respect? Straighten out your puppy mask, polish your fingernails, get your shorts on for guard duty, trim your beard and shine up your stress card. There are no standards any more.

Response by MAJ Paul Bacak made Jan 5 at 2023 6:48 PM

2023-01-05T18:48:05-05:00

I’ve been retired for nearly 30 years. I haven’t been able to convince soldiers I served with to NOT call me “Sir” even though I’ve subsequently been a guest in their homes.

Fix it now CPT!

Response by CPT Endre Barath made Jan 6 at 2023 2:34 AM

2023-01-06T02:34:03-05:00

quite frankly if you need to ask this question you should not be an officer no hard feelings Jeff R

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Jan 6 at 2023 3:49 PM

2023-01-06T15:49:40-05:00

Yes!

Response by SGT Jeff Everhart made Jan 6 at 2023 3:51 PM

2023-01-06T15:51:28-05:00

Yes, he should be corrected, but how it's done is up to you.

Response by MAJ Jimmy M. made Jan 9 at 2023 10:24 PM

2023-01-09T22:24:26-05:00

Short answer - Yes.
The standard that you walk past has become the new standard. If you accept "hey", will you later accept "yo"?
Even when not in uniform, a Soldier is a Soldier.

Response by Sgt Den OBrien made Jan 13 at 2023 9:47 AM

2023-01-13T09:47:49-05:00

Well I guess that all this doesn't matter now since the snowflake "woksters" want "Sir" and "Ma'am" removed from the military vocabulary. By their standards " hey you, hey man," and even a " hey fuckface" would be perfectly acceptable..... until the demands for dentures start to overwhelm the needs for political correctness.

Response by MSgt Frank Askins made Jan 13 at 2023 6:22 PM

2023-01-13T18:22:06-05:00

It troubles me that you're an "officer" (a captain) and feel a need to ask this question! I might be a little more understand if you were a fresh butterbar!

Response by SPC Margaret Lome made Jan 21 at 2023 3:43 PM

2023-01-21T15:43:54-05:00

Of course! It's your duty!

Response by SSG Jonathan Edwards made Jan 25 at 2023 6:36 PM

2023-01-25T18:36:28-05:00

Grab the nearest NCO and have a smoke session. Heh.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2023 2:36 PM

2023-02-03T14:36:49-05:00

You absolutely should and immediately at that.

Response by Sgt Stu Kopelman made Feb 5 at 2023 1:51 PM

2023-02-05T13:51:19-05:00

Everything in context and right perspective. A standard is set for a specific reason, not any or all reasons. A great physicist once shared with me that we must be appropriate for the occasion. If I am told to wear a suit in front of my boss at work, should I be expected to wear a suit in front of my boss at the beach? No. I wear swim trunks. If I am teaching a class as a professor to college students, and I am addressed as Doctor, should I expect the same courtesy from a kindergarten student?

Or, a husband comes home from work and scolds his wife because the cupboards are bare while in the same instant 5000 Syrian children are gassed to death. In that moment, the husband's demands seem incidental. Context and perspective.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Feb 5 at 2023 7:57 PM

2023-02-05T19:57:18-05:00

Only if you're in uniform or if he knows you're an officer. Really, how would they know otherwise?

Response by CPO Lenny Orth made Feb 6 at 2023 5:28 AM

2023-02-06T05:28:52-05:00

As long as you are commissioned, whether on duty or anywhere on the planet. You are your rank and they are theirs. If you aren't wearing your uniform and they don't know you, lighten up Francis. If you aren't wearing your uniform and they know you, communicate your displeasure and expectations.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2023 3:17 PM

2023-02-06T15:17:29-05:00

Let it go for that one time. Unless it becomes it comes an issue.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 6 at 2023 9:28 PM

2023-02-06T21:28:39-05:00

It would depend entirely on the context. If it was a SPC that I didn't know and my back was turned to him where he couldn't see my face or rank, then I'd be inclined to give him a pass and just turn around and let him see my face and rank and realize his mistake. That's and honest mistake. If it was a SPC who knows who I am, or knows my rank and says that, not only do they get corrected, but I will also let their NCO know so they can ensure that the correction sticks.....usually with a little physical motivation.

Response by PO1 George Noble made Feb 6 at 2023 9:31 PM

2023-02-06T21:31:20-05:00

It is about respecting rank and the uniform.

Response by SGT Alan Martinez made Feb 6 at 2023 9:59 PM

2023-02-06T21:59:48-05:00

Not to be rude but you are saying you are an O- 3 and don't know if you should correct an E- 4 for calling you "Hey-man"? My opinion is that your behavior concerns me more than the E-4

Response by SSG Leland L. "Ted" Cogdell, Jr. made Feb 7 at 2023 8:56 AM

2023-02-07T08:56:51-05:00

Yes, I would suggest that you correct the soldier's language behavior toward you, sir. Try to avoid, "bother" in your language use here, sir. As professional soldiers, we react to whatever is before us based on our military training, among many other things. To be sure, this Soldier is highly likely to share with peers that he got away with a, "Hey man." with a commissioned officer. I'm sure your post will cause many of us old-timers to wince. But you indeed did the right thing to reach out for coaching, guidance, and leadership on this one. True leaders know this is important on a number of levels. His language use with you degrades good order and discipline--vital to unit morale, cohesion, and battlefield victory. When in doubt about any behavior I needed to undertake during my long military and civilian public-service career, I asked myself whether behaving in a certain way showed whether I was faithfully executing my Oath of Office, or that was I slaking off, just to go along to get along. Here, of course, the former is the high road and the right road. Thanks for your courage to serve! All the absolute best to you, sir. HOO-RAH! Airborne, sir!

Response by Cpl Robert Lemm made Feb 7 at 2023 7:17 PM

2023-02-07T19:17:49-05:00

If you both know for certain the rank of each other, Yes you should correct him. The only situation I can think of that it would ok is if you are in a potentially dangerous location and pointing out your rank may make you a target.

Response by SSgt Glenn Martin made Feb 8 at 2023 2:07 AM

2023-02-08T02:07:45-05:00

Damn right you need to correct him while on duty. Off duty out of uniform thats a different story but the SPC should still show respect. Off duty the SPC should say Hi Captain or whatever rank he knows you as or hello sir. The Big Thing For That Young NCO To Remember Is RESPECT!

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Feb 8 at 2023 7:47 AM

2023-02-08T07:47:32-05:00

Yes. Military bearing is part of military discipline. You correcting the enlisted and your peers to maintain military standards is part of your job, especially as an officer. These Joes and Janes are representing US Armed Forces. Even, I as an enlisted would correct you if you are doing something against the norm of the uniformed services. Furthermore, I expect you to do so on me as well if I am stepping out of bound, especially if I have left my fly opened. :) Never be afraid to do the right thing, just be tactful when doin it.

Response by CPL Todd Kinsey made Feb 8 at 2023 11:01 AM

2023-02-08T11:01:27-05:00

I drove for both company and field grade officers as a young (18-19) pfc and specialist. You should absolutely correct the soldier.

Something I learned as a driver was that when we were in the vehicle talking, it was ok to be somewhat casual, however, I never would have not shown the proper respect.

If you are complicit in this E4 thinking they have a casual, friend sort of relationship. I would own up to your mistake but definitely don’t let the standard slip.

My son is now an Army captain and we frequently talk about the importance of keeping the high standards with enlisted personnel and being the example for all the men in his charge because they will look to him on the battlefield.

Response by LTC Christopher Holoman made Feb 8 at 2023 8:20 PM

2023-02-08T20:20:56-05:00

Military personnel is always on duty and subject to the UCMJ. Contact the SPC's NCOIC and recommend additional training on military customs, courtesy, and the UCMJ.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2023 7:22 AM

2023-02-09T07:22:44-05:00

Of course you should. Why would you even ask such a question?

Response by SFC Stephen Smith made Feb 9 at 2023 11:22 AM

2023-02-09T11:22:57-05:00

I guess it kinda depends however, I still call SGMs, SFCs and officers by their rank or Sir to the point they get sick of it. And we’ve all been retired for close to twenty years. Lol I do expect however, them to call me Sergeant Smith.
I would talk to his NCO and let them know that the Specialist requires some additional customs and courtesies training.

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Feb 9 at 2023 12:16 PM

2023-02-09T12:16:25-05:00

Yes, You should,
you can do this one of two ways,
you yourself can correct the E-4 on the Spot, that not very satisfying to me, I Believe The Junior Member will not remember, how or why you corrected him .
I believe the Better way for the Officer to approach this behavior is to find the E-4 Immediate Senior Enlisted Supervisor, ask him Why his Junior Personnel do not Know How to Give The Proper Greeting Of The Day, or How to Properly address senior Personal? ask him is this what he is teaching his junior personal, then recommend ie: Tell The Supervisor that you want him to oversea this JR Member on Giving Training to the other junior enlisted members , On how to Give the Proper Greeting of the Day, and how to address senior personal , when Speaking to a officer or senior enlisted . after speaking to your senior enlisted leadership, they should be able to straighten this matter out without you being involved anymore in this matter , the Senior Enlisted will straighten the junior member out .

Response by Sgt Jerald Schwen made Feb 9 at 2023 5:26 PM

2023-02-09T17:26:04-05:00

I've been out of the Corps since 1993, got out as an E5. My Uncle was a retired Ait Force Colonel and from the day I graduated boot until the day he passed, I addressed him as Sir. Flash forward to today. My nephew is a Major in the Army, he too is addressed as, Sir.

They earned it!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2023 5:34 PM

2023-02-09T17:34:18-05:00

Officer or not, SPC or not. I am 1-sided on this, mostly because I absolutely hate the word "hey". My family, my friends, coworkers, everyone that knows me, know that I do not respond to "hey". If I do respond, I promise it is not in a nice way. I have a name, use it.
Even if you do not have a problem with it, If the wrong person were to overhear it, it could be trouble for you and/or the SPC. I would correct it.

Response by LTC Myron Opfermann made Feb 10 at 2023 2:48 AM

2023-02-10T02:48:51-05:00

My first duty assignment after OCS was as a training officer in a basic training company so I quickly developed the correction on the spot habit of not accepting failure to perform.to standard. You are not on officer or NCO to be popular but to be a respected leader.

Response by SGT Michael Powers made Feb 10 at 2023 7:27 AM

2023-02-10T07:27:16-05:00

I was an NCO, in the army. You most certainly should correct the behavior. The first time a reminder that you are an officer in the military. The second time put it in writing.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Feb 10 at 2023 8:40 AM

2023-02-10T08:40:53-05:00

Teaching moment for you to train him and then let his senior enlisted know

Response by SGT Dan Rogers made Feb 10 at 2023 1:22 PM

2023-02-10T13:22:11-05:00

Jack his Boots.

Response by MSgt Jules K made Feb 10 at 2023 4:05 PM

2023-02-10T16:05:15-05:00

I hated when officers would call me or other SNCOs by first name, especially in front of troops. Your problem is easy. Much stickier when officers do it to SNCOs. Abolish all 'familiarity' up and down the chain. It just turns into a shit show.

Response by CPT Tom Parr made Feb 10 at 2023 4:26 PM

2023-02-10T16:26:51-05:00

Customs and courtesies. As an Officer, you set the standard, or lack of a standard. As an O-3E, I would always make OTS corrections. It speaks volumes!

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2023 7:59 AM

2023-02-11T07:59:02-05:00

To maintain the sanctity of customs and courtesies and the profession of arms, the short answer is yes. But, how you do it is what he or she will take away from it. Use the opportunity as a teaching moment and treat the soldier with dignity while you correct the behavior. I’ve see peers berate subordinates when it wasn’t warranted, and it not only didn’t fix the problem, it created a lack of trust and respect for the senior leader.

Response by PO2 Steve Sparks made Feb 11 at 2023 2:15 PM

2023-02-11T14:15:04-05:00

I can tell you the "sir" thing is just a formality. Think of it as a slow clap. I remember seeing recently out-of-the-joint Yardbirds calling our ChEng Mickey and he wanted to be called Sir rather than ChEng or LT. Hey, hey you, or yo is just rude.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2023 3:12 PM

2023-02-11T15:12:47-05:00

Of course!! Also, make sure they are saluting you… it’s crazy how slacking our military is on respect and responsibility. All I see are overweight, lazy, soldiers.

Response by 1SG Donald Dillman made Feb 11 at 2023 3:36 PM

2023-02-11T15:36:07-05:00

It sounds like a discipline and respect training area. You should confront the soldier, get his unit and 1SG name then report to his unit the incident. I had a similar incident at a High School where a student (HS junior) call his counselor (female) DUDE. MMM this did not go over to good with me, as I waited for the student to leave the room, them I questioned the counselor if I heard right. Today, discipline and respect is taught at the home, but with the corrupt world we are in now, this is not a priority for families, especially when they are mostly single moms or dads.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Feb 13 at 2023 2:48 AM

2023-02-13T02:48:41-05:00

There is no way for them to know if you're not in uniform. Unless you're willing to spend time correcting everyone who refers to you as "hey" outside work and out of uniform, it's not something to bother yourself about

Response by A1C Robert Babcock made Feb 13 at 2023 9:00 AM

2023-02-13T09:00:22-05:00

Were either of you in uniform at the time? Remember, it's your rank they salute.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Feb 14 at 2023 7:34 PM

2023-02-14T19:34:04-05:00

There is no room for disrespecting on or off duty. It's a 24/7 requirement 365/6 days a year. If you didn't you request the greeting, then I would correct the unpleasure gesture greeting.

Response by A1C Stanley Kolakowski made Feb 18 at 2023 4:40 AM

2023-02-18T04:40:08-05:00

Spot correct "to the level of the situation". So an "off duty" error starts with an immediate, polite and "quiet" reminder of rank and decorum.
Why?
Let me put it into the way it was presented to me:

I joined the unit softball team, that was mostly various enlisteds but had a at least one Officer, the third baseman...
Even though he was from another portion of our unit, I was told to "sear" his look into my mind (since he'd never have his rank on "during the softball activities", and ALWAYS treat him like an Officer, no matter what the "team" situation was. Because maybe, one day, I could have to do something with his part of the unit.
And if I were to "slip up", heck would be paid...
but then again, even being 100% professional "on duty", if someone were to see us "buddy buddy" on the team, and if during our on-duty interactions the mere "hint" of "me getting off easy" came up, HE would be the one to "pay the heck" that comes out of the "favoritism".

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made Mar 4 at 2023 4:59 PM

2023-03-04T16:59:33-05:00

If you don't call this E-4 out as a E-9 I will call you both out .Respect is part of the military and as a E-4 he should have learned that "Sir".

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Mar 7 at 2023 11:34 AM

2023-03-07T11:34:31-05:00

Rest assured if one of your higher ups were to overhear him, you would get reamed for not correcting him on the spot. I good friends with a many years retired Marine colonel. For years, I've called him by his first name, Colonel.

Response by PO1 Vickie Worley made Mar 7 at 2023 3:05 PM

2023-03-07T15:05:33-05:00

Yes. That's disrespectful if he knows you are an officer.

Response by PV2 James Johnson made Mar 22 at 2023 2:52 PM

2023-03-22T14:52:16-04:00

https://www.rallypoint.com/assets/default/avatar_feed-c576620e456c07f7e51daf4a3fa4b871734753af9a8f91358d1758bc126944c7.png

avatar_feed-c576620e456c07f7e51daf4a3fa4b871734753af9a8f91358d1758bc126944c7.png

Response by SFC Mitchell Domm, Gcdf made Mar 23 at 2023 1:28 AM

2023-03-23T01:28:11-04:00

Prime Time to correct a Specialist I would make a correction by asking him to the side and explain that he is showing disrespect and if it happens again you will inform his Chain of Command. If this does not work address it with his unit 1SG Im sure it will get corrected quick lol

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Mar 23 at 2023 10:28 AM

2023-03-23T10:28:49-04:00

Outside of work as in off duty hours and out of uniform? Personally I'd likely call an officer Sir/Ma'am anyway out of respect and habit but that's just me, and there's no requirement to do so. I'd probably let that slide.

Response by Cpl Amilcar Jimenez made Mar 23 at 2023 4:35 PM

2023-03-23T16:35:39-04:00

Yes correct him. This would never happen in the Marine Corps. True story, went aboard the USS Underwood to see my brothers ship. I was an enlisted NCO in the Marines. An ensign was addressing a group of sailors in a formation. Many of the sailors were just llaligaging. Talking amongst themselves.

I told my brother, if an enlisted Corporal or Sergeant was addressing a platoon and there were enlisted of junior grade in a formation just talking amongst themselves, there would be he'll to pay. Unsure what the formation was for, but there definitely a huge difference between different branches.

Respect is due in or out of uniform. You would not address a senior officer as "hey dude", or "what's up man". Would never happen. Nip it in the bud, if it happens to you. You don't have to be a dick about it. Simply tell them, to respect you in or out of uniform. Enough said. Corporal out!!

Response by SSgt Scott Ezra made Mar 23 at 2023 5:22 PM

2023-03-23T17:22:30-04:00

I guess the Army and Marines are just vastly different in culture than what I was used to growing up around USCG aviation on Navy & CG Air bases and Air Force bases.
I was raised to say yes sir or ma'am to everyone and I still do to this day. However, I can't imagine any of the officers I grew up around or served with would have cared if an enlisted guy or gal they didn't work with said "hey man" while they were off duty in civies.
I think everyone should be respectful to each other. I think we should also maybe not take ourselves so seriously as well.

Response by SSG Paul Bennis made Mar 24 at 2023 11:36 AM

2023-03-24T11:36:36-04:00

100% yes, correct a lack of military bearing. There was a CSM at Fort Hood who always carried a ball bearing in his pocket. As a senior NCO he chewed out an motor pool enlisted soldier real bad, it was over the top. An E-4 handed him a ball bearing and told him that he must have lost it. Although he was pissed off he realized the E-4 was right and after that day always carried the ball bearing and if you asked to see and he did not have it in his pocket he would do 100 push ups.

Response by PVT Tony Notimportant made Mar 24 at 2023 3:29 PM

2023-03-24T15:29:37-04:00

You should smoke his bags until you knock the new generation out of him!!!!! Their not your buddy or your equal, this is coming from a vet that joined in 1997. I got out as a enlisted and knew my place and understood that calling an officer anything but "sir" would generate sweat dripping from my face and ass! Because that's how you get "right" and discipline!

Response by PO2 Ronnie Chandler made Mar 24 at 2023 4:30 PM

2023-03-24T16:30:24-04:00

When I was in A school myself and 4 other Sailors walked past a Marine Officer. I saluted they walked on by. He stopped us all Explained his rank and gave them heck ! Then he explained that if nobody teaches you You never learn. After I got out of school I needed an Officer to sign off on some paperwork and remembered where he work. I asked him to sign off for me he actually remembered me and did as I asked. So long story is yes correct them and teach them not just show off your rank.

Response by CPT Luis Escobedo made Mar 24 at 2023 5:00 PM

2023-03-24T17:00:18-04:00

That officer needs to see the current definition of " fratinization" I was an officer in the Army. This thing call wokness has changed the military. If I were on active duty,I would probably be on trouble for I am old ways of military.

Response by SPC Tony Ross made Mar 24 at 2023 7:04 PM

2023-03-24T19:04:33-04:00

Sir, with all due respect and as a former Sham Shield holder; there is no “outside of work” for rank. However, careful with correcting CSMs

Response by SPC Rob Smith made Mar 24 at 2023 10:58 PM

2023-03-24T22:58:32-04:00

yep

Response by SPC John Bryson made Mar 25 at 2023 6:19 PM

2023-03-25T18:19:17-04:00

Well Sir, it depends on the environment you want to set. I have been out longer than I've been in but I will still refer to my past officers as Sir or Ma'am but then again I was raised by a Senior NCO and he taught me how to be the person I am now. It is up to YOU, Sir, to set the standard that you want your soldiers to follow. If you want the SPC to show the proper courtesies, then the conduct should be corrected.

Response by Maj John Bowers made Mar 26 at 2023 11:52 AM

2023-03-26T11:52:46-04:00

Are you kidding me? Failure to correct this would be unforgivable.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Mar 26 at 2023 12:16 PM

2023-03-26T12:16:42-04:00

you can make correction without being hard

Response by LTC David Howard made Mar 26 at 2023 4:36 PM

2023-03-26T16:36:08-04:00

It is inconceivable to me that as a Captain you even thought of NOT firmly getting on this soldier's case. Even outside of work you are still an officer, and military discipline must be observed. I would have ripped this soldier at new a**hole and might well have recommended formal disciplinary action to his commanding officer. If you want to see a good example, though fictional, of what can happen when an officer allows enlisted soldiers to treat him with other than the respect due his rank, watch the film "Master and Commander" and see what happens to the junior naval officer on the ship in question.

Response by SFC Keith Gardner made Mar 26 at 2023 6:59 PM

2023-03-26T18:59:07-04:00

You shouldn’t need to correct him. That’s the task of every NCO within earshot.

Response by SFC Eddy Weezar made Mar 26 at 2023 9:42 PM

2023-03-26T21:42:23-04:00

Get with his NCO! Let him know.

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made Mar 27 at 2023 12:45 AM

2023-03-27T00:45:35-04:00

If you don't correct him you're setting him up for failure.

Response by SSgt Patrick Sprague made Mar 27 at 2023 6:15 AM

2023-03-27T06:15:12-04:00

Wow at some of the comments in here. Can we be any more self absorbed guys?

The idea behind all this is crazy and why gen Z refuses to join the military in droves like previous generations. You guys are not friends. Lower enlisted and officers of any rank being friends is a recipe for bad times. However, "lighting him up" is absolutely ridiculous. A polite reminder that regardless of uniformed status, and location, he should regard you in a leadership manner. So, "hey man" isn't acceptable. Screaming or berating them does nothing but make a younger enlisted hate the military and you even more. This is a big reason why retention is shit. Do follow it up by giving him props for being formal in uniform though. A little softer stance goes a lot further in today's world.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Mar 27 at 2023 9:02 AM

2023-03-27T09:02:07-04:00

Are you really an Officer asking this question?

Response by SPC Reimundo Maldonado Sierra made Mar 27 at 2023 9:30 AM

2023-03-27T09:30:24-04:00

My humble opinion as a former O.C. I know a lot of officers from my time at OCS. Even if I know them, we're friends, and we have been through a lot of things together we show the military bearing and respect each other. That means that I call them Sir, Ma'am, Gentlemen or Ladies as apply, all that because I know them, I respect them, and I love them. In the military everyone deserves respect, and officers are not an exception, and that's why he should call you Sir. That doesn't mean that you're being rude or something. Your title wasn't free, you earn it.

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Mar 27 at 2023 10:30 AM

2023-03-27T10:30:17-04:00

Always make a correction, don't let it slide, since I retired I work with the National Guard and the familiarity these soldiers, at all levels, have makes discipline and military customs and courtesies very hard to enforce

Response by SFC Eddy Meador made Mar 27 at 2023 12:48 PM

2023-03-27T12:48:27-04:00

If this is what today's Army has come to, then I'm glad I retired when I did. No respect for it now and would never recommend enlisting to anyone.

Response by SGT Jacob Helms made Mar 28 at 2023 6:19 PM

2023-03-28T18:19:02-04:00

What the heck is going on? It’s always SIR! Begin or end each sentence with an officer with SIR!

Response by Sgt Frank Hupp, DTM made Mar 28 at 2023 8:40 PM

2023-03-28T20:40:35-04:00

That can be totally dependent on the circumstances. I was an E-4 section chief in a vehicle maintenance department at Elmendorf AFB in Anchorage, Alaska. My section was the materials handling section. It was during the Viet Nam era. Much of the equipment that my section worked on was main support for the Viet Nam war efforts. A Captain in the R & M warehouse and yard came to me with a problem. He only had two forklifts. One was an inside forklift and one was an outside forklift. The inside forklift had an engine problem and was dead lined for parts. In effect he was not able to perform his mission. He asked what he could to get a working inside forklift in service. I explained the part that l needed and he took the defective part with him to see if it could be matched. The next morning at roll call he was standing there in his dress blues with the part. Due to circumstances none of my men were available to work on his machine, so I told him that I would work on it as I had time during my other duties. He draped his dress blue jacket over my chair and stated, "what can I do to help?" I told him that I did not believe that it was appropriate for me to have a Captain assisting me. He again explained that his mission was in jeopardy. I sat on the forklift and he handed me the tools that I needed. The Captain asked me to quit calling him "sir" while there was no one else in earshot. I asked me to please call him Bill. I told him that I was not comfortable doing that but I eventually relented and called him Bill. When my JACKASS of a CO walked by he went ballistic. The Captain explained to my CO all of the circumstances. The Captain covered me. I saw the Captain many other times and when we were in private he always asked me to call him Bill.

This is a rather long explanation to explain my answer.

As I started my answer with, it depends on the circumstances.

If he is being disrespectful then by all means the E-4 should be disciplined.

Sgt. Frank E. Hupp, USAF, Retired

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Mar 28 at 2023 9:27 PM

2023-03-28T21:27:34-04:00

Due respect should never be ignored. It should be corrected. All enlisted should regard even the lowest ranking officer with due respect. Sir is not that hard to say. I also feel it goes both ways. I had a SSGT I was on temporary duty with the called myself and other NCO's by whistling and snapping his fingers. I politely reminded him of what a Marine NCO has don and it deserve the minimum of calling me by rank and last name. I am not a dog, but someone that has made some accomplishments worth respect. He tried to balk at it, until the Captain behind him asked if this was true. Glad it was temporary.

Response by CW4 Edmund Parowski made Mar 29 at 2023 6:22 AM

2023-03-29T06:22:44-04:00

I am surprised that this is even a question. Where did you get your commission? You can't be "hey, man" on Saturday and "sir" on Monday and expect either one of those to mean anything. Pick one, and your answer better be the latter. The custom of saluting in mufti seemed to be waning as I approached retirement, but I always found it far less awkward to always salute my BC rather than try to figure out exactly how low customs had deteriorated at the moment.

Response by SSgt Ryan Pittenger made Mar 30 at 2023 11:25 AM

2023-03-30T11:25:42-04:00

It would be a good idea to correct him.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2023 1:29 PM

2023-03-30T13:29:05-04:00

Yes you earned the proper respect

Response by SGT Kevin Taber made Mar 31 at 2023 6:42 PM

2023-03-31T18:42:37-04:00

Ummm yes sir you correct him.

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Apr 21 at 2023 9:18 AM

2023-04-21T09:18:52-04:00

If you were in uniform, kick him in the balls.
However that is the very least I observed on the various bases I visited in the past. Eye lashes, large hooper rings, 2 guys in uniform (both Capt.) walking hand in hand into the Commissary, unshaved, extremely large afros and so on. So the "hey Man" is although wrong, no big thing. Until such a time that the department of the military decides to enforce discipline and follow the rules, don't be surprised if he ask your wife for a date next

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Apr 21 at 2023 5:25 PM

2023-04-21T17:25:56-04:00

Depends. If you are on the basketball court or participating in a sports event that is one thing; HOWEVER, on base shopping, at lunch or a social event that is completely different. As an E2 I umpired softball. I called people out, discuss [argue] calls with the coach [Bill]. One day I saw "Bill" in the Exchange [neither of us was in uniform]. We talked for 5-10 minutes. A week later, I saw "Bill" again. This time it was Lt. Col Bill. Although Bill was not in my chain of command, we were able to separate the job from non-military events. When in a military setting, he and I showed mutual respect for each other. Hopefully, this will help.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Apr 21 at 2023 11:02 PM

2023-04-21T23:02:52-04:00

You Better!!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Apr 22 at 2023 10:17 AM

2023-04-22T10:17:22-04:00

Yes.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Apr 24 at 2023 11:18 AM

2023-04-24T11:18:50-04:00

He should call you sir anywhere he sees you, you are still an officer, Semper Fi

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Apr 27 at 2023 7:57 PM

2023-04-27T19:57:15-04:00

Absolutely, and immediately. Doesn't have to be a confrontation just a serious reminder of what the customs and courtesey's of the service are. If his lack of respect persists you may have to take more official action. It is not just his lack of respect for you it is a lack of respect for the chain of command.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made May 7 at 2023 7:46 PM

2023-05-07T19:46:20-04:00

If you do not correct an E-4 for this disrespect, you will loose respect from those are responsible for. You might as well hang it up. You lost. As an E-6 if I heard it I would be allover them!

Response by Sgt David Gutierrez made May 7 at 2023 9:30 PM

2023-05-07T21:30:40-04:00

Off duty out of uniform? You put your pants on just like he does, on duty in uniform absolutely make him stand tall.

Response by CPT Dennis Stevenson made May 8 at 2023 10:26 AM

2023-05-08T10:26:35-04:00

Is this in a civilian setting? or duty setting? If duty, such would be inexcusable and hence discuss a correction

Response by SPC Julio R. made May 8 at 2023 12:35 PM

2023-05-08T12:35:58-04:00

Technically we're soldiers 24/7 so outside of work you're still a soldier so rank does not go out the window. N
ow if you were both drinking and partying then then Hey man is just fine.
But if you guys are not drinking buddies and your work acquaintances then he has to call you sir point blank. It's called decorum and respect for the rank. Some of these new age soldiers don't know Jack s*** about how to be a soldier... what are they teaching you guys at basic training nowadays?
Lock his butt up rickety tick if he does that again. An correct his butt, what an embarrassment to the E4 mafia........

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2023 5:34 PM

2023-05-08T17:34:41-04:00

I agree with SFC Casey O'Mally below. Make the correction and move on. You know if this conversation was observed by another NCO or Senior Officer, most would have nipped that in the bud, right then and there and perhaps even notify his first-line supervisor. Then they can take appropriate action if they feel it is warranted. Personally, I would make the correction and move on, I would only consider writing it up if it became a habit and I observed it again. This is all about Good Order and Discipline.

Response by SFC Eddy Weezar made May 8 at 2023 7:56 PM

2023-05-08T19:56:39-04:00

Lack of respect!

Response by SGT Timothy Posemato made May 9 at 2023 12:49 AM

2023-05-09T00:49:02-04:00

You're on duty 24/7, on base , off base, uniform or civilian clothes, the unit patch being different or the same, rhe only thing that matters is an enlisted person showing the officer the respect, and its not showing the person respect, it showing respect to the rank. If respect isn't shown, it's failing the system and eventually the system won't work. Yeah, let him know.

Response by MSG James McKenzie made May 9 at 2023 1:55 AM

2023-05-09T01:55:44-04:00

No, especially since you don't work with him. People need a break from the caste system when they're not at work.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made May 9 at 2023 12:13 PM

2023-05-09T12:13:40-04:00

During my military service I had many good friends who were officers - all the way up to Colonels. If we were sitting in the privacy of my house or theirs, it was Bob, Jim, whatever... In public, it was always yes sir, no sir, good morning Captain/Major, or whatever the rank was. I also was married to an Army Nurse -- we were married during the period from Staff Sergeant and Lieutenant to retirement at First Sergeant and Lt. Colonel. In private settings, is was Patti and Dean... In military settings it was by rank... Whenever she introduced me to other officers or enlisted persons it was always " I would like you to meet my husband Sergeant First Class McBride" - same thing went for me introducing her, Bottom line: The Specialist should never call you anything but Captain Railey or sir. An appropriate response would be for you to quietly remind/educate him of the military courtesies expected from both of you. I would not just "correct" him or reprimand him. Give him a chance to do the correct thing.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made May 9 at 2023 1:00 PM

2023-05-09T13:00:51-04:00

Yes.

Response by TSgt John Bonnar made May 9 at 2023 1:37 PM

2023-05-09T13:37:24-04:00

That is a no-brainer in all branches of service. Remind the E-4 that it shows respect for the person or his /her position. It is not proto-cal to call them anything, other than that. Even in civilian attire, I did that.

Response by CH (LTC) Ted Baccich made May 9 at 2023 1:39 PM

2023-05-09T13:39:55-04:00

Yes, I believe you should correct him. Your name is not, "Hey Man."

Response by SFC Robert Devincenzo made May 9 at 2023 6:26 PM

2023-05-09T18:26:13-04:00

Never walk past a mistake

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2023 8:22 PM

2023-05-09T20:22:30-04:00

Y’all are more worried about your ego than the standards. Don’t get it confused.

Response by SPC William Snyder made May 10 at 2023 8:41 AM

2023-05-10T08:41:18-04:00

I cannot even begin to conceive of what would have happened to me in the way, way back, if I had spoken to an officer with "hey man"....

Response by SGM Art Hudson made May 10 at 2023 9:11 AM

2023-05-10T09:11:26-04:00

Sir as a Commissioned Officer it is your right to correct an Individual that blatantly shows disrespect for you.

Response by SSgt John Manstis made May 10 at 2023 3:56 PM

2023-05-10T15:56:15-04:00

That would be CORRECT SIR ! YES SIR

Response by PO2 Timothy Roxbury made May 11 at 2023 4:11 AM

2023-05-11T04:11:18-04:00

Bootcamp and basic training both teach the same lessons. It's up to the student as to whether he/she "gets it" or not. Whether in or out of uniform, officer or enlisted, common and correct courtesies STILL prevail. If he/she can't figure that out, they shouldn't consider reenlistment as an option. One day, they're going to run across the wrong " hey man" and they're going to get they're going to get their proverbial clocks cleaned, if you know what I mean. "Shape up or ship out"!

Response by SSG Clayton Lam made May 11 at 2023 6:03 PM

2023-05-11T18:03:08-04:00

yes. definitely

Response by PO3 Jamie Crosier made May 11 at 2023 8:38 PM

2023-05-11T20:38:10-04:00

H. E. Double hockey sticks YES!!! Speaking as a former E-4, sir. You need to fixed it. Even when I said "hi." "Hey" "howdy" if it was an officer always with a sir or ma'am. Never hey dude, hey man. I even called enlisted officers by rank or sir or ma'am. "PO Martin sir..."

Demand respect and give respect and you will always get respect. Till you tell this E4 otherwise. But never while in uniform it disrespectful to you, your uniform and everyone who came before you. Remember your uniform is a part of a history that is the military and if nothing else the uniform get respect.

Response by Sgt Gary Thompson made May 12 at 2023 9:27 AM

2023-05-12T09:27:12-04:00

Yes, he needs to be corrected, you are not friends or buddies, his direct report such as a platoon SGT. Needs to be made aware of you dressing him down on it, if it happens again he should receive what we in the Marines called office hours, that's writing up his offense and standing in front of the company's CO, next offense would be more severe. The chain of command is important. Anyway thats my opinion CPT.

Response by SGT Nathan Michelson made May 12 at 2023 3:11 PM

2023-05-12T15:11:25-04:00

Yes, sir you should. Having a respectful, professional culture in the unit does not dismiss the superior/subordinate dynamic. A suggestion on how to handle that situation would be to ask the Soldier (standing at attention, of course) "Do you address your NCO in that manner?" If it's yes sir, you have an NCO failure. If it's no sir, say "Then who trained you to think that's an appropriate way to address me?" Forces them to take accountability for their actions. If you think you got your point across, I would maybe leave it at that, but if your not confident the lesson sunk in, maybe find out who the NCO is to receive further corrective training.

Response by SPC Douglas Hearron made May 12 at 2023 4:28 PM

2023-05-12T16:28:20-04:00

What happened to our military? It used to be a well disciplined force. Now we’re asking questions like this? I tell you it makes me sad to see the lack of discipline our military has these days, and it’s going to lead to an ass kicking when the ball drops. SMH

Response by SPC Kenneth Berry made May 13 at 2023 9:12 AM

2023-05-13T09:12:03-04:00

It does not matter if you are on duty or off, from the same command or not. Respect for the rank carries. So next time you see them and they say "hey man" show him the same respect that he just showed you and let him know who you are. Respect is earned not given, so if you earn it make him respect. Your choice.

Response by PO3 Terry Miller made May 13 at 2023 3:52 PM

2023-05-13T15:52:24-04:00

Never allow a slight or disrespect because it will encourage the person doing it or those observing that person, to do the same.

Response by SGT Robin Selleys made May 13 at 2023 9:06 PM

2023-05-13T21:06:36-04:00

If he is a SPC , he should know better .

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2023 10:07 PM

2023-05-13T22:07:46-04:00

Outside of work is different than during working hours. During work hours I even call my friends who are officers sir but outside of work I call them by their first names. Since you don’t directly work with this person and it’s outside of work you are the problem.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made May 13 at 2023 11:41 PM

2023-05-13T23:41:48-04:00

Okay, there's so much context missing here it's not even funny... Like was the officer in civies? Was this out in town. I had a few chiefs make warrant officer after I retired and still called them chief because of when I last saw them. But, a minor correction would be fine to apply to let them know you're an officer and should be treated as such.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2023 10:39 AM

2023-05-14T10:39:06-04:00

Do either of you have Ranger Tabs?

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made May 14 at 2023 3:06 PM

2023-05-14T15:06:27-04:00

Absolutely address it 100% of the time. If he does it to you, he does it to other officers. A little humiliation now prevents a lot of suffering later.

Response by CPO Matthew Bigelow made May 18 at 2023 9:37 AM

2023-05-18T09:37:45-04:00

No, LT, you should always allow today's E-4s to do whatever they want l, whenever they want to do it. After all, you don't want to be reported for disparaging a subordinate. Best to just shake it off and carry on as though you're best buddies.

Seriously? I just can't even.

Response by PFC Lisa McDonald made May 21 at 2023 9:33 PM

2023-05-21T21:33:04-04:00

I would call them out on it and remind them they need to maintain military standards in regard to even rank off duty. If that fails to address the situation then stronger action is required.

Response by SP5 Henry Brinkmann made May 22 at 2023 10:15 AM

2023-05-22T10:15:29-04:00

Yes Rank should be respected by both NCOs and Officers

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2023 3:54 PM

2023-05-24T15:54:42-04:00

If you can't correct your subordinates, you shouldn't be in a leadership position. Man up buttercup. I work with plenty of retired officers now, most of which are hold lower positions than I do. If they don't respect me as a man, I make sure they understand what leadership structure is.

Response by SN Nicola Poitras made May 25 at 2023 8:53 AM

2023-05-25T08:53:07-04:00

Absolutely. As an officer you should 'light him/her up', if you don't, You are derelict in your duty. I don't care if you're best friends or lovers off base, it's not the person that is being saluted, its the rank.
There were a number of officers I thought had no business being in positions of authority, but you always respect the rank.
Just like POTUS, you may hate the man, but it's the office you respect.

Response by 1SG Skip Pettit made Jun 3 at 2023 9:45 AM

2023-06-03T09:45:42-04:00

I agree totally - make it a learning experience and collegial the first time it happens - LOCK HIS/HER HEELS - if it happen again!!~!

Response by LTC Reginald Brown made Jun 3 at 2023 11:19 AM

2023-06-03T11:19:03-04:00

Yes, it is your duty to correct. If he does not learn from you, who will he learn from. When I came in the Army as a 21 year old college graduate, I thought I would never have to correct someone who had been in the Army for 3, 5, 10, 15 years already. Of course, that was not true. The Army structure is such that, fresh newly trained people (officers, junior NCOs) are required to remind and uphold the most basic of standards so that those who have been serving 15 or 20 years never become complacent and we remain a great fighting force.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2023 4:03 PM

2023-06-03T16:03:21-04:00

Absolutely. I have been informed that the "School of The Soldier" is no longer utilized. That's too bad. It provided meaningful correction without the damage of a written reprimand or Article 15. It never failed to to get the recalcitrant soldier's attention.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jun 8 at 2023 3:28 PM

2023-06-08T15:28:33-04:00

You should take them too the woodline and have corrective training on how to properly address officers. Hahahaha. Seriously though this seems like to be more to this. Maybe you guys were hanging out one night and you have become good friends or the E4 is being a douche bag. I would have a discussion with the E4 and reiterate the importance on addressing higher ups and any officers.

Response by 1stSgt Frank Mitchell made Jun 23 at 2023 4:27 PM

2023-06-23T16:27:30-04:00

Best advice I can give you is to call 1-800-Waa! Ask them for a set of balls.

Response by SP5 Timothy Cooper made Jun 25 at 2023 3:54 PM

2023-06-25T15:54:41-04:00

I you are a officer then that SPC need's to say Sir it is the Customs and Courtesies of the day as long has long as you are in the Army. Too this day I still do it an I been out 15 years it is part of my DNA till the day I am called too regroup an that is a long time off HOPE.

Response by PO3 William Carroll made Jun 26 at 2023 4:10 PM

2023-06-26T16:10:46-04:00

If the offices is out of uniform, and not on Duty. No I wouldn't address hem/her , the same way I would if she/ he, was in uniform and on Duty.
He/ she, should show me the same respect.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2023 10:29 AM

2023-07-01T10:29:08-04:00

Absolutely correct them. If you don't and the other see their actions they will think they can do it.

Response by SGT Kenneth Rand made Jul 7 at 2023 12:31 PM

2023-07-07T12:31:02-04:00

As an NCO my guys and I were on a first name basis only because we had an agreement they give me their all at work an absolute 110% and we could relax while within the Platoon. Let me tell you morale was always high and any time I had to take leave my guys called me and checked on me when my father died my guys each sent flowers instead of one order for the group. The comradery you'll experience is worth letting your guys relax that being said these guys need to learn when and where because in front of a higher ranking officer or commander or senior NCO's it will not bode well.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Jul 7 at 2023 2:31 PM

2023-07-07T14:31:18-04:00

He must respect the rank, saying hey man is not doing that. Inform him of proper military form. Semper Fi

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Jul 7 at 2023 8:05 PM

2023-07-07T20:05:05-04:00

I think the trouble lies in a lack of training of our children in the first place. When I was a child , we were expected to treat all adults and those in authority with respect. I addressed my father as sir when responding to him. This generation has an ultra casual outlook on authority. So if you have to re-educate the young soldiers

Response by PO3 James Czerniak made Jul 7 at 2023 8:20 PM

2023-07-07T20:20:28-04:00

So, in my day, an officer would call in the subordinates NCO and let him correct the problem. If it was a 1 time thing, a good verbal lashing would work. If it was habitual, it went to wall to wall counseling and the problem was fixed. Its the NCOs job. Your job is to fix the NCO for not doing his job.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2023 1:37 PM

2023-07-08T13:37:30-04:00

Not to be rude but, I can not belive that combat arms O3 is asking this question. You are their leader not their friend. A beloved and respected leader is what you should strive to be. They should never be casual with you. And you should never be casual with them unless the situation dictates that you be casual with them for example a life or death situation or a mental breakdown. That's my one and a half cents on the issue. Having said that however I realize that close intense combat with a group of men changes the dynamic in the company.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Jul 8 at 2023 4:39 PM

2023-07-08T16:39:07-04:00

If you’re in the Army hell yes!

Response by SSgt David M. made Jul 9 at 2023 12:19 PM

2023-07-09T12:19:14-04:00

Hi All My Fellow Veterans
I also was raised as a US Army 'Brat'. I was born at the old Fort Belvoir, Virginia Hospital in 1954. My Dad was a SSG at the time and four years later was a SFC. My Dad became a Chief Warrant Officer in the early 1960s. We often had other enlisted and NCOs visit our on base housing while living in Schofield Barracks, Hawaii, and Fort Hood, Texas. Most of the visits were for fishing trips, Holidays, coin and Stamp collecting. I do not remember hearing anyone call my Dad 'Sarge' but I heard many call him 'Chief'. On duty or off should not make any difference. Respect of the rank is broad but respect for the person is wider. When I worked in the A Company 34th Signal BN Motor Pool we had a Motor Officer, 2nd LT Sipes. Lt. Steven Sipes was as green as a gourd. Our Motor Pool personal were a very tight group; yes we had our share of screw-ups and several had Article 15s and at least one ended their time in Fort Leaven Worth. We had a close relationship with our LT and became close friends on and off duty. We also referred to LT Sipes as 'Steve' anytime we were in the Motor Pool and no other Officers were in our AO. We referred to LT Sipes as LT or sir at all other times. This was our way to show our respect for the person and still show respect for his rank at the same time. I for one would always show respect for the rank on anyone that I recognize off duty, in uniform or not. Any Officer that has to ask what to do in this situation really needs to look into a mirror and ask themselves why are they an Officer to begin with. Duty, Honor, Country! I attended the Small Arms Repair Course in Grafenberg, Germany. On the wall in the classroom was a plaque with a very fitting inscription, "He that knows how will always have a job, He that knows why will always be the boss!" I carried that saying into my last duty station in Fort Ord, California with the HHQ 2nd of the 31st INF BN. I will not say that I respected every Officer that I ever had dealings with but I always respected the Rank regardless of my personal feelings about the person. I SALUTE All My Fellow Veterans!!! GOD Bless America!!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2023 12:57 PM

2023-07-09T12:57:45-04:00

It matters not the rank of one addressing you as "hey" or "hey man." It's downright disrespectful! And disrespect should be confronted and consequences given.

Response by SGT Frank Hewes made Jul 9 at 2023 3:46 PM

2023-07-09T15:46:31-04:00

Absolutely correct him/her, even if they're not in your direct chain of command. There are standards for addressing others in a professional manor. When "Hey" or "Hey you" is an accepted way of catching the attention of an officer, it indicates, to me at least, that there is a severe breakdown of discipline and organization in the offenders unit.

Response by SGT Kerry Sommers made Jul 9 at 2023 5:22 PM

2023-07-09T17:22:55-04:00

If you are in uniform the specialist should call you sir and salute when appropriate. Most times I would salute the uniform and not the person because I usually did not the officer. I was leaving the PX and failed to salute a captain. He stopped me and told me to give him 20. I did and learned my lesson. Situational awareness when in uniform.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Jul 9 at 2023 10:26 PM

2023-07-09T22:26:54-04:00

You're Not Sure?
I'd Damn Well Straighten The Boy Out!
And By The Way:...Officers Are Expected To Be Leaders..
You Must To Be Sure Of What Your Doing, When You're Leading Others.
It's Not For The Weak Of Heart Or With A Slow Reaction Time!

Response by MAJ Rick Freeman made Jul 13 at 2023 12:29 PM

2023-07-13T12:29:07-04:00

You are what is wrong with the military today…..

Response by MAJ Rick Freeman made Jul 13 at 2023 3:01 PM

2023-07-13T15:01:29-04:00

You are what is wrong with todays military. You need to find another job....

Response by Cpl Len Rybicki made Jul 22 at 2023 2:22 AM

2023-07-22T02:22:20-04:00

If you don't correct him, or her, you don't deserve to be an officer.

Response by Cpl Len Rybicki made Jul 22 at 2023 2:23 AM

2023-07-22T02:23:46-04:00

If you don't correct him, or her, you don't deserve to be an officer.

Response by SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt made Aug 4 at 2023 12:19 PM

2023-08-04T12:19:26-04:00

Not all who join the military, officers or enlisted are bright and or astute. Let it go, not worth the issue. if this repeats on duty, call him or her to task

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2023 2:42 PM

2023-08-04T14:42:43-04:00

Um. . . Yes. If you don't, you perpetuate a culture of substandard discipline and a lack of respect for your position.

When not in uniform, it still needs to be semi-professional, because he's treating you like he'd treat any other E4 he'd see out in town. Whenever I came across officers in town that I recognized, they were still greeted with a Sir or Ma'am. Didn't matter if they were a butter bar & I was the salty E6 closing on my retirement, they received the same level of respect.

Response by MSgt Louis Roylo made Aug 5 at 2023 6:42 PM

2023-08-05T18:42:34-04:00

I retired over 20 years ago. Such a question would not even have been asked back then. There is a different mindset, apparently, in our military today. Is fraternization still a UCMJ violation? Is there still a UCMJ?

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Aug 5 at 2023 7:06 PM

2023-08-05T19:06:27-04:00

Damn right you correct his butt. Stand him at attention and require him to address you according to your rank, with a Sir; Officer last name, then put him on report with his commanding officer or if in your unit, with fifty pushups and extra duties until he learns the correct way to address officers. He is not an officer's buddy, or wasnt when I was commissioned, but in todays military who knows what is custom; duty; regulation. No "red" cards in this issue.

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Aug 6 at 2023 12:41 PM

2023-08-06T12:41:50-04:00

I think that you have to respect the officer's rank but not address him as hey or hey man.

Response by 1SG Rene Davis made Aug 7 at 2023 11:56 AM

2023-08-07T11:56:37-04:00

Are you sure you’re an officer? You absolutely should correct him. ASAP!

Response by Sgt Clay Campbell made Aug 7 at 2023 1:26 PM

2023-08-07T13:26:27-04:00

You definetly need to corrects this SPC. If you don't, all military courtesy is lost,

Response by Cpl Brian Escobar made Aug 7 at 2023 8:21 PM

2023-08-07T20:21:46-04:00

We never had this problem in the Marines...even Junior NCO's are adressed by their "Entire Rank Title" and greeted with respect. An officer??? Shieet, that is the problem with Marine 2nd Lt. 's. They know their rank is Godlike and yet they don't know anything...

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Aug 7 at 2023 9:11 PM

2023-08-07T21:11:58-04:00

I am reading this as you were not "on post " when the SPC said "hey man". You were in the civilian world and OFF duty correct? My answer will be dictated by your answer.

Response by SGM Dennis Earle made Aug 9 at 2023 10:48 AM

2023-08-09T10:48:43-04:00

Absolutely make that on the spot correction immediately. Chances are that his NCOs are too lax in their discipline and most likely allow their soldiers to get too comfortable. While recruiting is hard and maintaining manpower is getting more difficult I would rather have a smaller well discerned unit than a large well manned undisciplined one.

Response by COL Thomas McGrath made Aug 9 at 2023 9:06 PM

2023-08-09T21:06:15-04:00

“Cheap cigar” is part the description of my response.

Response by SSgt W. Aaron Gregory made Aug 10 at 2023 2:19 PM

2023-08-10T14:19:33-04:00

As an officer, or any rank, I would address this immediately. Officers of all ranks are quite easily addressed as sir or ma'am. Although some exceptions apply. I learned that Army chief warrant officers are addressed as "chief". In the Marines, warrant officers are often addressed by their nickname "gunner" (long story).

Enlisted, you can be on a first-name basis with... as long as you use first names, like "chief", "corporal", "sergeant major", etc.

This is *not a regular job*, sir. You are on 24x7, and you're a captain in the U.S. Army 24x7. So is the soldier in question.

This same thing applies to officers. You never, ever, speak to enlisted this way, either. It opens the door.

Response by CAPT Edward Schmitt made Aug 10 at 2023 6:24 PM

2023-08-10T18:24:46-04:00

Yep, immediately and professionally. And then just as importantly have a quiet talk with their senior NCO; obviously individual needs some counseling by the enlisted leaders.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Aug 11 at 2023 5:44 PM

2023-08-11T17:44:58-04:00

Correct them in private so you do NOT tear them up too severely.
If he does again, take him aside and warn him that some officers are quick to tear you down in front of everyone and set you for failure-I am going to set you up for success...as an officer, that is your goal: Set your men and women up for success and he may have been not thinking, but just ask him next time and SET THEM FOR SUCCESS!

Response by SPC Clay Young made Aug 13 at 2023 12:44 PM

2023-08-13T12:44:57-04:00

Absolutely it’s common courtesy.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Sep 4 at 2023 9:44 AM

2023-09-04T09:44:59-04:00

Is this really a question? If I were to see/hear this and the officer didn't make an on the spot correction, I'd be all in that E-4s sh-t about it. But then again I am from a different time maybe...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2023 2:01 PM

2023-09-04T14:01:47-04:00

If you are an officer in the US Army, you are lucky that SPC did not call you something much worse. Because I would. US Army officers are the most dishonorable, cowardly people on the face of the planet. After what my family had to go through at the hands of those pretenders and the fact that they refuse all accountability and refuse to fix their mistake, wifllful or otherwise explains everything smuck. Any other branch, officers should be treated with the respect that they earned. So you are lucky you got a "hey man." I love how you post this. Shows you are just as clueless as the rest of the US Army officer corps. Take a long hike off a short pier if you are Army. It will save unlimited headached among the enlisted that should know better than to look up to such officers. "An Era of Dishonor: the true story of Fort Benning Officer Candidate School class 01-06."

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 4 at 2023 9:19 PM

2023-09-04T21:19:04-04:00

I had to have this conversation with someone in theater about how to behave in the presence of an O-6 and above. Now, I was quite casual as a CW3, as was my O-4 OIC, but lower enlisted still need to recognize customs and courtesies.

Response by SGT Kenneth Partyka made Sep 5 at 2023 5:50 PM

2023-09-05T17:50:49-04:00

LOL, YES! How things have changed. When I was a SP4, there was one Saturday, off-duty, we were paired with my Platoon Leader as a foursome on the post golf course. This happened completely by accident. Thoughout the day, we constantly called him "LT". Finally he responded, "Will you just call me Gary?" and out answer was, "OK, LT" and we proceeded to call him LT throughout the day. Why, he earned that rank...and our respect.

Response by TSgt Tom Martin made Sep 5 at 2023 9:25 PM

2023-09-05T21:25:38-04:00

If You do not know the answer to this the You are not worth a shit as an officer so turn in you uniform

Response by SFC Luis Serrano made Sep 5 at 2023 9:47 PM

2023-09-05T21:47:03-04:00

It's really up to you, you are the one who will be disrespected; and he/she will be the one chewed up if he does it in front of a Senior NCO. It's a no brainer man. SFC Retired.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Sep 6 at 2023 6:07 PM

2023-09-06T18:07:49-04:00

When in or out of uniform the specialist should give you the same courtesy that you would give a superior officer.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2023 1:23 PM

2023-09-07T13:23:33-04:00

Absolutely not. Especially as an O3. Hes earned a promotion while you just fogged a mirror. Touch grass

Response by SSG Russ Helms made Sep 7 at 2023 6:46 PM

2023-09-07T18:46:34-04:00

You should always correct him

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2023 7:51 PM

2023-09-07T19:51:23-04:00

No Specialist should be calling any Soldier with the rank of SGT or above "Hey Man"..... if he or she knows who you are. Unacceptable...period. This is a clear breakdown in military discipline.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Sep 7 at 2023 8:32 PM

2023-09-07T20:32:09-04:00

I think it depends on "outside of work" means. If off duty at a bar off base, it's probably wise to let him speak that way. In uniform or anytime on base, it should be "sir". My humble opinion.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Sep 7 at 2023 11:24 PM

2023-09-07T23:24:09-04:00

Your ego is showing. Neither of you are in uniform and this troop wants to pull your chain. Your only alternative is next time you are both IN uniform to remind him how inappropriate his greetings are

Response by LCpl Stephen Arnold made Sep 8 at 2023 12:04 PM

2023-09-08T12:04:38-04:00

A light correction seems sufficient. I don't think you need to shred the kid, but correcting him is wise. Seems he does have the respect in uniform, in your own words. Pull him aside and remind him of the need for the courtesy at all times. I was friends with several officers as a young enlisted and a good reason was I knew how to separate to the two. But, if it's bothering you, Capn, you should correct it.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Sep 10 at 2023 2:38 PM

2023-09-10T14:38:31-04:00

Of course. That is so out of line.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2023 3:44 PM

2023-09-10T15:44:10-04:00

Yes sir! He knows you are an officer...pull aside and correct him. If he was in uniform and had a cover on that "GORD" he is required to salute you. Civilian wear does not change things when knowing you are an officer. Per the MARINE CORPS. Semper FI.

Response by SSG Matthew Fox made Sep 10 at 2023 3:45 PM

2023-09-10T15:45:53-04:00

Seriously? At the minimum they absolutely have to respect the rank. As an NCO, that person knows better, it’s not like they joined yesterday. Back on the day of I would have tried that it would have been an instant Article 15. Have more respect for yourself, sir, and correct those who need it. If you let that trash perpetuate, your troops will not have an ounce of respect for your authority. You have no reason at all to fear them. Take charge, you’re an officer.

Response by Maj Wanda Whitney made Sep 10 at 2023 8:23 PM

2023-09-10T20:23:09-04:00

Most definitely correct him or her on the spot. We have to keep up the standards or they slip and there is hardly any way to reinstitute that standard if you fail to hold up your side.

Response by SGT Karen Emanuelson made Sep 10 at 2023 9:45 PM

2023-09-10T21:45:04-04:00

If he's calling you "man" or "hey man" when outside of work--especially when you are both in civilian clothes, but calls you "sir" while at work, what is the issue? "Hey" and "hey man" are kind of loutish ways to address someone, but anyone who has been in the military knows how to swear in paragraphs without being redundant, so there are a WHOLE lot worse methods of address that guy could use when he's off duty & out of uniform.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Sep 10 at 2023 10:55 PM

2023-09-10T22:55:58-04:00

There's a tradition in the submarine world that enlisted with dolphins, warfare qualified, don't salute officers without dolphins. Yeah. Bring prior enlisted, I had those boys locking heels and standing at attention until they gave me a salute. I wasn't popular for awhile, but word got around and that was fixed on our sub.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Sep 10 at 2023 11:22 PM

2023-09-10T23:22:33-04:00

The Specialist is way out of line. Off duty or not. He's aware of your rank and should address you as such. On the spot correction.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Sep 11 at 2023 9:58 AM

2023-09-11T09:58:02-04:00

Take this for what you will...

I was an E4. Never. Absolutely never called an officer hey man. If in public outside of work I called them Mr/Ms/Mrs or sir madame. Even the ones I had intimate working relations with. Being on a 110ft ship you got to know your cremated WELL.
If this is something you intend to give thought to then it bothers you. And it's not correct.
What you permit- you promote.
Pull the 4 aside and have a chat. Seek them out at work and ask to speak. Doesn't need to be an official scolding just more of a "hey friendly reminder" contact. You never know...he may have had an officer in the past or previous command that set this norm for him. Or he could just be a sandbagger and need some correction.

Response by CW2 Jesus Torres made Sep 11 at 2023 10:29 AM

2023-09-11T10:29:53-04:00

Yes for Sir.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2023 9:44 PM

2023-09-11T21:44:28-04:00

In what context are you interacting outside work? It's possible that someone else unfortunately set a bad precedent that you now have to correct. I think because he is using correct C&C at work, there's no need to "light him up" but rather remind him that they are supposed to extend beyond the workday. There is a way to enforce standards without antagonism, and I've found that to be more effective

Response by CPL Patrick Ras made Sep 12 at 2023 12:37 AM

2023-09-12T00:37:56-04:00

Probably reply "what's up dude?"

Response by PO3 Julio Covarrubias made Sep 12 at 2023 1:15 AM

2023-09-12T01:15:30-04:00

I enlisted and was discharged as an E-4. I never would have imagined addressing an officer as 'hey' or 'hey man.' Correcting that behavior promptly is crucial, as it reflects a lack of respect and can be the first step toward insubordination. It's essential for individuals to understand that they've joined the military, not a regular 9-to-5 job.

Response by SPC Michael Golden made Sep 12 at 2023 4:06 AM

2023-09-12T04:06:50-04:00

Depends on the context. Off duty? Playing basketball? Let us know....

Response by LCDR Damon Senaha made Sep 12 at 2023 5:48 AM

2023-09-12T05:48:44-04:00

This former E-5 turned officer says, yes, you correct him.

Response by MAJ Jim Hollingsworth made Sep 12 at 2023 6:07 AM

2023-09-12T06:07:33-04:00

If wearing civilian clothes, identify yourself.
Describe the behavior.
Describe the policy.
Never Argue. Never apologize.
Follow up and ensure the correction is made.

Response by PO2 Jeff Blakely made Sep 12 at 2023 4:33 PM

2023-09-12T16:33:09-04:00

The correct greeting, with respect, should be "hello sir" nothing more, nothing less. The way the military has gone these days is way to soft in my opinion. Honor, courage, commitment, respect need to be the standard not just some words that are passed around.

Response by SGT Adrian Simmons made Sep 13 at 2023 6:41 PM

2023-09-13T18:41:10-04:00

Oh if you were off duty ,then he hasn't done anything wrong unfortunately

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2023 4:18 AM

2023-09-14T04:18:57-04:00

Act like a douche get treated like one

Response by SGT Chris Owens made Sep 14 at 2023 10:36 PM

2023-09-14T22:36:49-04:00

not sure what you mean "outside of work"
but I was taught that you as a captain, ask who the soldiers platoon sargent is, company and unit commander...then you let that company commander know what happened, who the soldier was and who the platoon sargent is, then they correct him, because it is their failure and they need to know about it
officers converse with officers out of the chain of command, they dont deal directly with enlisted that are not in their chain of command

so if you were a colonel you would address the colonel of that command

it could be setup to where you are in at a meeting with all involved to find out what the issue actually is...perhaps the whole unit does the same thing, in that case you have found a weak link command and at the top level it needs addressed...maybe a general needs to know about it

I have been involved with something like this...once when I was a fledgling e-4....it never works to the soldiers and the units benefit if you correct them and no one else knows about it...because they will continue to not meet the standard
I like SFC Casey O'Mally answer, but I felt it needed elaborated

Response by CW2 Robert Troop made Sep 15 at 2023 12:32 AM

2023-09-15T00:32:42-04:00

Dear Captain R. You should bring the SPC to one side and have a brief conversation to him telling him that he needs to be respectful to those who holds the officers rank from a WO up to a General. Ask the individual, if roles were reverse and that if he was an officer, how would he feel if someone called him "hey man or what's up man"? You worked hard to get the rank, and others should respect your rank office which you hold...He might realize his mistake, and going on might be respectful.

Response by PFC Francine Fontana made Sep 15 at 2023 2:14 AM

2023-09-15T02:14:10-04:00

Rank is rank, wherever you are.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2023 11:05 AM

2023-09-15T11:05:24-04:00

It has always been Sir or Rank. NO EXCEPTIONS was what we were Taught in BASIC. So my question is, where did this Soldier go to BASIC at and who didn't inform him of this Common Curtesy? This Young Man needs some reminding. Push the ground till I'M Tired. I still say we need to go back to Basic like it was in the 70's. So in common curtesy i would stop him and REIND him one time and when he does it again Stop and Drop.. Maybe he will Learn.

Response by CPL Miguel Velez made Sep 15 at 2023 11:27 AM

2023-09-15T11:27:19-04:00

Of course, you have to be upset. Any enlisted or lower-ranking officers must respect the Chain of Command. In my Team, I was the lowest-enlisted TM, we were a Unique Team/Family. Lots of respect was honored. I gained respect from my superiors that we treated each 0ther with the soul, my CSM Green Beret all his life over 40 years, never called me SP4 Velez, instead he would call me Pee (brother). I loved my job and missions with Col. Weekley, Cpt. Baggley, Lt. Rendethorson, CW4 Smith, Maj. Diaz. I wish I could find them and have a cookout.

Response by SPC Michael Wilson made Sep 15 at 2023 12:32 PM

2023-09-15T12:32:28-04:00

Yes

Response by SSG Brian G. made Sep 16 at 2023 1:33 AM

2023-09-16T01:33:55-04:00

This is one of those where the answer is going to depend on the two of you are when it occurs.
As a general hard rule if the person knows you are an officer and the two of you meet in civvies, let's say at the Commissary BX/PX etc... yes, he should refer to you as sir. And this standard should apply regardless of where you are in the US.

Now... the rules change when you step outside of the US. Even though we have bases, posts, ports all over the world we still have to maintain OPSEC and that means changing some customs when off post and out of uniform. The haircuts usually give us away but it should be permissible to use the more familiar when out and about in foreign countries. That said that only goes so far.

Response by PO3 Barney Baty made Sep 24 at 2023 11:31 AM

2023-09-24T11:31:06-04:00

Nothing is set in stone; I use to volunteer at the VA Muldoon (Alaska) I address everyone by SIR or MAM; until we become friends or I am told not to. Blessings

Response by SrA Joseph Garrigan made Sep 27 at 2023 1:10 AM

2023-09-27T01:10:09-04:00

Outside of work would mean outside of uniform correct? So if he doesn't know you or your rank why assume he has a clue your an officer?

Response by SPC Donald Donovan made Oct 1 at 2023 7:14 AM

2023-10-01T07:14:09-04:00

Oh HELL YES. That kind of casual informality is totally off base. If he knows you are an officer he is to show you the same respect in or out of uniform. Not sure if saluting is required in civies but the proper respect needs to be recognized.

Response by SPC Rick Price made Oct 1 at 2023 2:34 PM

2023-10-01T14:34:59-04:00

ABSOLUTELY WRONG on all levels. We are in the military on and OFF duty. The rules need to be enforced.

Response by PO3 Pamala McBrayer made Oct 4 at 2023 4:54 PM

2023-10-04T16:54:08-04:00

“I am happy to be of help, but before we begin, you will address me as SIR or MAA’M as a matter of professional courtesy. This ain’t the Air Force. Off duty doesn’t change that.”

Response by CPT Jay Ward made Oct 8 at 2023 10:41 AM

2023-10-08T10:41:43-04:00

Yes, correct the troop calmly, tell them what they should do, and then point out that the next person may not be do lenient.

Response by SSG Alex Toulomelis made Oct 9 at 2023 5:21 AM

2023-10-09T05:21:18-04:00

Absolutely! Standards are not what are taught but what is tolerated. Basic military customs and courtesy is a foundation of good order and discipline.

Response by SPC(P) Geoffrey Fansher made Oct 9 at 2023 2:25 PM

2023-10-09T14:25:59-04:00

I've been out for too long evidently....but you said outside of work, yes? Are we talking you crossed paths at Target wearing non-military apparel? Cause if that's the case, I'd probably call you "hey man" too...especially if I don't really know you and we don't work together. Obviously, in fatigues/dress, he owes you proper address. But if you're in public wearing some shorts & a t-shirt, you should probably change your mindset a bit. As an E-4, when off duty half of my friends were E-5 to E-7 & O-1 to O-3. On duty, I knew my place/role though.

Response by LTC S S made Oct 9 at 2023 8:13 PM

2023-10-09T20:13:18-04:00

No. Stop being a prick. Not at work...off duty. So screw you. These types of officers are 1 reason we can't recruit. Too many power hungry aholes.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2023 11:03 AM

2023-10-11T11:03:13-04:00

Absolutely. Calm assertive correction, not degrading. Leadership 101

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Oct 11 at 2023 2:34 PM

2023-10-11T14:34:13-04:00

Absolutely. But handle it in the chain of an officer. If the soldier does not fall within your command, then get their name and pass it along to that chain of command down to that NCO support chain.

If you’re in an established unit, and you have soldiers who talk like that, there’s no need for benefit of the doubt. The doubt has already been established. Whether it’s the culture of that particular unit or squad or whatever, there’s a problem and probably a big one.

Do not ignore that.

Response by SFC Greg Dunn made Oct 11 at 2023 7:46 PM

2023-10-11T19:46:12-04:00

Squash that now in no uncertain terms.
The organization works because standards and customs are upheld.
You as a leader set the standards or enforce them from higher.

Sham shield E4 needs put in his place.

Response by SPC Israel Ruiz made Oct 11 at 2023 8:26 PM

2023-10-11T20:26:35-04:00

Were you in uniform? Was he? Did he knew you were an officer? If any of this is yes the. Yes you should correct him

Response by SSG James Knopp made Oct 11 at 2023 9:09 PM

2023-10-11T21:09:34-04:00

Personally, I would take him aside and explain how the chain of command works.
Not in a demeaning way, but in a way that they understand respect given to a higher ranking individual is how and why our leadership structure is among the best in the world.

Response by SGM Robert Winstead made Oct 11 at 2023 9:49 PM

2023-10-11T21:49:47-04:00

Of course you should correct him. If you fail to correct him you deserve the disrespect he is showing you.

Response by SGT Bert Shearer made Oct 11 at 2023 10:52 PM

2023-10-11T22:52:37-04:00

Unless this Lt has personally lowered the professionalism bar for this particular Spc (when off duty, out of uniform, off post, etc.) which he obviously has not as he is asking this question, he should correct the Spc. After having been out of the Army for 39 years, the subordinate soldiers I served with still are inclined to show me respect by addressing me by rank even though I have been telling them we are out and to call me by my first name. They still show me that respect. I guess my question to the LT is why there is a question, by either the Spc or himself, as to whether or not he is due that respect?

Response by Sgt Trevor Sellers made Oct 12 at 2023 9:12 AM

2023-10-12T09:12:28-04:00

During my four years in the Marine Corps I never witnessed such an occurrence. Training and indoctrination from the first day a recruit steps off the bus makes all the difference throughout their career and mission of the branch of service they belong to.

Response by Sgt Mervyn Russell made Oct 12 at 2023 11:39 AM

2023-10-12T11:39:50-04:00

If you are close friends in a private setting, it would be ok. Not in a public setting.

Response by PO1 William Whalen made Oct 12 at 2023 1:13 PM

2023-10-12T13:13:27-04:00

You should immediately correct him, I retired as a Petty Officer First Class and I had many officers who I had close relationships with, and only once did I ever address them by other than their rank and last name. In that instance, I called him by his first name as CNO was on the line for him and I could not get his attention otherwise. It is with respect that we address fellow service members by their rank and/or title.

Response by CPL Christopher Thomas made Oct 12 at 2023 3:26 PM

2023-10-12T15:26:01-04:00

When I was in, you always stopped and corrected them as it was disrespectfully to the rank. You should stop them and correct them. I've been out of the military for 23 years and I still give respect where respect is do even if the person behind the rank doesn't deserve it. Just my 2 cents but that would never have went un-corrected.

Response by 1LT Kurt Mccarthy made Oct 12 at 2023 4:42 PM

2023-10-12T16:42:11-04:00

Yes.... Even if you're cool with it, he will run into other Officers who aren't. Somebody will grill him sooner or later for it.

Response by SSgt Titus Ruch made Oct 12 at 2023 5:30 PM

2023-10-12T17:30:32-04:00

It should remain as I experienced many years ago (Viet Nam Era); not one of us would even have considered such disrespect.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2023 9:47 PM

2023-10-12T21:47:05-04:00

Sir,
Yes. Be firm, fair, and final. There really isn't a discussion to be had here. This kind of rot of discipline cannot be allowed to set it. You may be in command of Soldiers like this one day. You may have to send them to die. Something as minor as "hey man" can easily turn into mutiny when the chips are down.

Response by CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin made Oct 13 at 2023 8:01 AM

2023-10-13T08:01:33-04:00

when i have seen comments like this in the civilian realm. I wonder, if you have been perceived as a friend. I also wonder where were you. Were you visiting a bar usually visited by those of lesser rank.

Response by PO3 D Ingrassia made Oct 13 at 2023 4:34 PM

2023-10-13T16:34:03-04:00

Must be a female officer?

Response by CPO Kurt Baschab made Oct 14 at 2023 1:05 AM

2023-10-14T01:05:28-04:00

always correct,
always educate,
always make sure the member is wearing his uniform Properly , it truly starts with how the member wears his or her uniform, if there pride in his uniform appearance there pride in his work , there pride in service pride in customs and courtesies.

Response by LTC Stewart Mason made Oct 14 at 2023 3:22 PM

2023-10-14T15:22:13-04:00

Respecting your leaders comes an understanding that Customs and Courtesies and is what separates us from other organizations. Duty, Honor, Country actually means something, and I knew that as a Private, an NCO and an Officer. Respectfully get in his kitchen.

Response by A1C John Hansen made Oct 15 at 2023 11:17 PM

2023-10-15T23:17:47-04:00

Absolutely correct him. You are a commissioned officer twenty for hours a day and he is a SPC the same length of time. If he continues after a small correction, talk to his immediate superior NCO.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Oct 20 at 2023 11:36 PM

2023-10-20T23:36:34-04:00

Yes.

Response by Cpl Ronald Hart made Oct 25 at 2023 11:29 AM

2023-10-25T11:29:01-04:00

this didn't happen in the Corps-it was attention on deck when they entered--I was instructed to call NCO's by their first name---cpl-sgt-etc etc

Response by SP5 Robert Kennedy made Oct 29 at 2023 8:21 PM

2023-10-29T20:21:25-04:00

CPT Jeff R. You're kidding, right? Unless you give him permission otherwise, Military protocol dictates.

Response by SP5 Robert Kennedy made Oct 29 at 2023 8:23 PM

2023-10-29T20:23:54-04:00

CPT Jeff R. You're kidding right? Unless you personally give him permission otherwise, Military protocol dictates. That's my opinion, I've not read anything that says otherwise.

Response by SP5 Michael Lewis made Oct 30 at 2023 12:59 PM

2023-10-30T12:59:39-04:00

Absolutely you should correct them. I don't care if they are in my unit or somewhere else, if they are an officer then they deserve the respect that the rank gave them. And not all officers are alike, but none the less, I don't believe in disrespecting anyone that carries the rank of officer.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Nov 3 at 2023 2:27 AM

2023-11-03T02:27:46-04:00

Get his NCO, while he gets his camel bak. We're doing some corrective training.

Response by SP5 Virginia Jorden Wackens made Jan 7 at 2024 10:34 AM

2024-01-07T10:34:35-05:00

Absolutely, why down grade your self or them by not pulling them up

Response by PO1 Sanford Snyder made Jan 7 at 2024 12:33 PM

2024-01-07T12:33:42-05:00

When dealing with the public since retiring in '94, I joke with new people I meet that I probably won't remember their name next time I see them. After all, 20 years of reading some ones name on their uniform, which has their rank etc, makes it easy to know how to respond/greet them. I'll have repeat customers who I see, recognize, but can't remember their name. Seeing some one on a semi regular basis is not guarantee they remember who exactly you are. Correct the individual at the time of the interaction as to your identity, if you determine it was intentional disrespect, deal with it in a Command manner. IMHO

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2024 8:47 PM

2024-01-07T20:47:14-05:00

Absolutely. Somewhere along the line (early on) someone (s) let that behavior slide. The troop then began to believe that conduct was acceptable. They need retraining in the rank structure, customs and courtesies, and general military discipline. If you let this go, the behavior will get worse. Concurrently, if you see NCOs and/or Officers allowing this behavior, correct them as well. When I first enlisted in the 80s we were taught “familiarity breeds contempt.” Correct it early.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2024 12:47 AM

2024-01-08T00:47:44-05:00

Should be called CPT Dick head! You sound like a total asshole.

Response by CW4 Thomas Shefflette made Jan 8 at 2024 2:40 AM

2024-01-08T02:40:04-05:00

I had an incident before I retired as I was walking back to division headquarters, two staff sergeants walked past me without saluting or even a greeting. As a CW4 and former drill instructor, that did not go over well. I spent about 15 minutes reminding and re-education them on the numerous regulations that they violated. I can almost guarantee that they will not soon repeat their mistake.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2024 9:27 AM

2024-01-08T09:27:24-05:00

Standards are things of wonder. Ideals of fluid emphasis, if you will. Or so I began to perceive, ultimately leading to my retirement with no notice or prolongation. As a brand new, young guy coming into the military, I whole heartedly believed in “Integrity, Service, Excellence” and “The Standard”. After returning to AD following a 9 year stent in the ANG and leaving college (due to the events of 9/11) the military was different for my 31 y/o self than it was for an 18 y/o. The adult with life experiences began to see the psychology behind the curtain. Analyzing EVERYTHING I saw how “the standard” was used as the measure; however, like subpar contractors, there was A LOT of “eye-balling”. The standard was inconvenient and demanded as much from the administration as the application, yet…it became all too obvious that, the better the salesmanship, the less important the individual brush strokes became when creating an image or other work of art. As the generations progress (if that’s what we are going to call it) they have more information at their finger tips than any preceding group. They can see through the crap. When you don’t practice the same game as you are trying to coach, you’re players don’t see the value in the work, the discipline, or the outcome desired. It took a long time to break. It’s going to take a lot longer to repair. Perhaps it can really be about the mission, as long as the mission is about national defense and not about personal objectives. When “learning to play the game” becomes more important than holding the standard, expecting the standard, and fixing the holes in the wall rather than slapping a thick coat of paint over them, things like Sir, Ma’am, Sgt, Thank you, and The Standard will matter. Right now, “hey, man” is the least of anyone’s problem. That’s just a symptom.

Response by COL Thomas McGrath made Jan 8 at 2024 11:16 PM

2024-01-08T23:16:53-05:00

Yes and ensure he never does it again!!! Ever. Then let his squad leader, platoon Sgt and 1 SG know about his render courtesies.

Response by SGT Wes Barton made Jan 9 at 2024 10:05 AM

2024-01-09T10:05:49-05:00

The only and correct answer is yes absolutely correct the soldier on the spot.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Jan 9 at 2024 10:16 AM

2024-01-09T10:16:53-05:00

Yes.

Response by SPC Ken Cain made Jan 9 at 2024 9:24 PM

2024-01-09T21:24:12-05:00

This is extremely situational. If your in uniform and in a Garrison environment yes you should correct him, however don't be a dick about it, at least not the first time you correct someone.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 8:35 AM

2024-01-10T08:35:00-05:00

Absolutely, new standard made when you do not enforce the standards.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 9:42 PM

2024-01-10T21:42:20-05:00

Ok to go against what others have said. You don't work together, you were both off duty, and you're probably a butter bar. No don't correct him. He probably doesn't even know your rank. Be a human off duty. You aren't a hall monitor. If he does it while you are in uniform then yes. Light him up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2024 10:38 PM

2024-01-10T22:38:41-05:00

You said outside of work. If you're not at work and not in uniform, lucky he even noticed you, I will flat out pretend I didn't see you, however this is also why I live nearly an hour from base and have 5 acres. When I'm off work, I'm off work.

Response by CPL Christopher Thomas made Jan 11 at 2024 8:18 PM

2024-01-11T20:18:31-05:00

You have to correct him right away. You earned your rank and the respect that goes with it. You don't have berate Jim, but he does need to be corrected

Response by SFC Ivan Caraballo made Jan 12 at 2024 9:49 AM

2024-01-12T09:49:09-05:00

Correct him, after 27 years of service customs and courtesies works, don't lower he standards

Response by MSgt John Cina made Jan 12 at 2024 2:23 PM

2024-01-12T14:23:05-05:00

Definitely!

Response by SFC Lynn Santosuosso made Jan 12 at 2024 5:31 PM

2024-01-12T17:31:24-05:00

Before I got out, I was in a reserve unit where the brigade commander was a gentleman from my hometown, whose family I knew. When he was promoted to Brigadier General and took over his division commander, I never saw him that much anymore, but when I did, he was always after me to transfer up to division because he thought I was such a good NCO. His words not mine!

It has been about 20 years since my ETS.. Even still, if I’m in my hometown, and I happen to run into him I still call him General, and he tells me, you don’t have to call me that. I tell him, with all due respect, General ,I can’t call you anything else!

Response by SSG William Zopff III made Jan 13 at 2024 8:53 AM

2024-01-13T08:53:31-05:00

When a standard exists, it is usually there for a reason, if you don’t uphold that standard it will begin to slide. If it slides at all, the standard could fall. When standards fall, it is like a domino effect; its fall will not only affect that discipline, other standards risk being effected! Stand it up and hold it up. Example: one big standard felk; now tecruiters cannot get enough people to join the service, respect has fallen!

Response by SFC Frederick Dalton made Jan 13 at 2024 3:21 PM

2024-01-13T15:21:07-05:00

If you don’t correct him, you need to resign your commission. Immediately.

Response by LTC David Howard made Jan 13 at 2024 4:31 PM

2024-01-13T16:31:36-05:00

I am appalled that as a Captain you even thought about this, let alone asked about it on a public forum. Military discipline is the one essential for military success. Without a strong culture of discipline and order, the miitary falls apart. In wartime, it is not unusual for an officer to have to order his men into a situation where undoubtedly some or all will be killed or injured. The unit may have been selected for a reconnaisance in force against a well dug in enemy of unknown size. The culture has to be such that the men ordered to move forward do not even hesitate to obey their orders, even if they sense the futility of their effort. Allowing an enlisted man to address you as anything except "Sir", or "Captain" needs to result in an immediate and forceful correction. The individual should be told that military discipline and order does not end with the normal duty day, nor by location, nor by whether or not one or both involved are in unifiorm and that any reoocurrence of such behavior will be treated as a serious disciplinary breach and will be punished harshly.

Then again, maybe the Army that I served in no longer exists. When one must be thinking about "preferred pronouns", or whether or not a remark might hurt the feelings of some mentally ill soldier who doesn't even know what gender he is, and where the top leadership says the biggest security threats to the nation are so-called "climate change" and "White supremacy", maybe I am expecting too much from a "woke" military.

Response by SPC Max Waller made Jan 13 at 2024 11:10 PM

2024-01-13T23:10:25-05:00

disrespect needs to be discussed without becoming violent verbally and physically and becoming disagreeable

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Jan 14 at 2024 12:54 PM

2024-01-14T12:54:33-05:00

Disrespect unchallenged is disrespect unleashed. Not only SHOULD you challenge the SPC, you MUST challenge the SPC. Lock his/her heels, make the correction and then tell him/her to "Carry on."

Response by MSgt Joan Alves made Jan 14 at 2024 2:03 PM

2024-01-14T14:03:32-05:00

Absolutely!!!! There is no room in the military for lack of respect to the rank. It doesn't matter if you are friends outside of the military. I have retired and to this day I still address some of my officer friends by their rank. Kids (let's face it that's what they are) need to be taught respect. Somewhere along the way this has been lost and is lacking in a lot the younger generation.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Jan 15 at 2024 12:09 AM

2024-01-15T00:09:49-05:00

897 responses to this query... Most of them spot on! You don't need to come across as a butt head but, you do need to correct the behavior in a positive way. A lot of responses attempt to differentiate the situation by saying it is okay to be somewhat disrespectiful if you are off duty... Not so, when I worked for major corporations in the civilian arena, I still would refer to the CEO as sir if I saw him in a off work situation. Calling him "hey" or "hey man" may have ended my career... You can't switch off an on the earned respect for a peer, senior, or subordinate!

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Jan 16 at 2024 3:58 PM

2024-01-16T15:58:56-05:00

Damn right you had better correct him. Discipline must be maintained, even though Milley/Austin turned military into Kum-by-yah lets all just get along military. There must be a red line that cannot be crossed not even by NCO's concerning superior officers. See to it that you repromand this E-4 and if happens again, punishment.

Response by SPC David C. made Jan 16 at 2024 9:54 PM

2024-01-16T21:54:04-05:00

Are you really asking this question as a Captain in the infantry?!?!?

Response by SSG Steve Knox made Jan 19 at 2024 11:18 AM

2024-01-19T11:18:23-05:00

I was always taught from basic training to my retirement from a military installation, that if you recognize and officer or senior NCO, show respect by giving the greetings of the day whether in or out of uniform. You may not respect the person, but you must respect the rank. Question. Do you address individual as "soldier" or warrior" off post? Maybe the individual in trying to conceal the fact that you are an officer while off post.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Jan 23 at 2024 4:23 AM

2024-01-23T04:23:34-05:00

What kind of leader do you want to be known as? An officer or want to be?

Response by SGT Keith Smith made Jan 26 at 2024 10:25 PM

2024-01-26T22:25:15-05:00

Out of uniform. What should happen is lower ranking does not know you are of higher rank or grade. You inform them of thier mistake and then prove you are the rank you claim. I used my ID card. After establishing who you are and who they are, you should get the respect due to your rank. If soldier continues disrespecting your rank then you ask the soldier for his unit. This normally gets the correct results. If not contact his chain of concern depending on how upset you are would determine brigade or battalion CSM. You could also contact his or hers 1SG if you are feeling nice.
This has the affect of making you look very much like you are shoving your rank down someone’s throat. People will hear and treat you differently. It never really bugged me. After 25 years I just stopped caring about appearances. I always reminded them and myself that if someone of higher rank gets treated like this, well it can go very bad and quickly. You shouldn’t feel like you are being a prick. We are soldiers 24 7 in or out of the uniform and some soldiers need to be reminded.

Response by 1SG John Millan made Jan 27 at 2024 1:32 PM

2024-01-27T13:32:02-05:00

Put him at attention and CORRECT him. With emphasis.

Response by SrA Mike Bahl made Feb 12 at 2024 5:44 PM

2024-02-12T17:44:40-05:00

Off duty and out of uniform you are just another guy. If he showed respect to your rank while on duty then what's the problem. If you are both in uniform when he is addressing you as "hey man" then yes this is obviously a problem that needs to be corrected.

Response by SPC Kyle Olson made Feb 16 at 2024 5:44 PM

2024-02-16T17:44:39-05:00

If you're unsure about correcting an E-4 in Garrison about whether or not he should call you "hey man" you probably shouldn't be an officer. If this decision is paralyzing you, just imagine what combat might be like. Best of luck SIR!

Response by SFC Dave Nutter made Feb 20 at 2024 3:31 PM

2024-02-20T15:31:00-05:00

a soldier is a soldier 24 x 7 x 365. In or out of uniform, if a person is recognized as an officer due respect should be rendered. As noted by others in this string, failure to correct that lowered the standard.

Response by SSG Mike Busovicki made Feb 20 at 2024 4:53 PM

2024-02-20T16:53:06-05:00

Most fraternization infractions happen out of uniform. Best to professionally nip this in the bud.

Response by PO2 Michael Berry made Feb 21 at 2024 3:45 PM

2024-02-21T15:45:10-05:00

You are still an Officer and he is Enlisted, whether in uniform or civilian clothes he knows that you are an Officer and must address you as such.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Feb 22 at 2024 4:03 PM

2024-02-22T16:03:21-05:00

This keeps popping up so I will finally comment. I lived on post with junior enlisted across the street as neighbors and the lives of officers and enlisted intermingle more than ever in our nation's military history. We cannot escape to an o-club or officers mess and really there is a time and place to hammer down and a time and place to not be Patton ordering joes to storm a machine gun nest. I always have enjoyed my time in the gym locker room as no one knew I was an officer and I could just listen to joes. I think it is easier to learn what goes on in their lives when just a regular joe and as an officer, you are expected to know your soldiers. The higher you go in rank the more you need to listen and dictate less. If he is relaxed enough outside work to say hey man, maybe he will be relaxed enough to tell you when his girl left him, vehicle broke down, platoon sgt unfairly riding his ass. Being a bit relaxed never takes away your rank or your position and you might just find out something important about your unit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2024 3:31 PM

2024-03-04T15:31:47-05:00

Yes, you correct him, you don't have to be impolite or demeaning just make him aware that it's inappropriate

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2024 3:32 PM

2024-03-04T15:32:37-05:00

Yes, you correct him, you don't have to be impolite or demeaning just make him aware that it's inappropriate

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Mar 6 at 2024 1:16 AM

2024-03-06T01:16:28-05:00

I would recomend a quiet correction in this describe case. Not knowing all the details, I would suggest pulling him aside and telling him that :hey man," is not appropriate,
You have to ask yourself tho, if you might be at fault.
What type of location? Were you in a bar? Would you really want your rank called out there?

As an E-4 I had called out to one of my sargents. "Sargent", Sargent {his name} Elevated volume...no response. It being important I yelled out his first name. He snapped around and I was able to tell him what I needed to. The CSM, unfortunately also saw the exchanged. It wasn't me chewed out, but he did pull the sarget aside to address the correction.
I had another Staff Sargent, same thing. We had two Sgt Smiths, SFG and SGT. I called out "Sgt Smith", Louder "Sargent First Class Smith" then ADAM!. He turned and started to chew me out about it being inappropriate for me to call to him like that, in uniform. When he had his say, I hasked him how I should have handled it, seeing as he handn't responded when I addressed him correctly.
He agreed, and apologised. He was having personal issues and was too lost in thought to hear what was going on around him.
So like I said, make sure you are not at fault, before making an issue out of it. Quiet corrections are easier, than making a show out of it, unless of course it is part of a larger problem.

Response by SPC Michael Budzinski made Mar 17 at 2024 10:11 PM

2024-03-17T22:11:26-04:00

Lighten up, as long as no disrespect especially in the reserves. Companies and platoons are like families and certainly don’t want any BS deployed or down range. Even in a relaxed setting call the 1st SGT, Top. If above the company level then formal approach. Anyone says differently is a …

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2024 11:05 PM

2024-03-17T23:05:11-04:00

Absolutely Sir! The behavior you allow is the behavior you shall receive. You should also reflect if you and/or your NCO’s are fostering an environment where the troops may believe this is ok. It is NOT!

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2024 8:03 PM

2024-03-18T20:03:24-04:00

Having an issue here - As an officer how were you commissioned and why are you even asking this question? You should already know what to do. Even if your E-4 is a relative - you need to keep it professional if you wish to be perceived as such.

Response by SPC George Edwards made Mar 18 at 2024 9:19 PM

2024-03-18T21:19:29-04:00

I'd see a difference if you were NG or Reserve. But, if on active duty, your rank deserves the respect.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2024 6:04 PM

2024-03-20T18:04:46-04:00

How “outside work” are we talking? I have heard “it’s just Chris when we’re in civvies” more times than I can count. If this was in line at Starbean and Leaf, I can’t see a reason why it’s a behavior that needs to be corrected, albeit if you want to discuss in a professional way with him about what your expectations are I also don’t see a reason why that conversation shouldn’t be had, sir.

Response by SGT Bill Braniff made Mar 21 at 2024 8:08 AM

2024-03-21T08:08:08-04:00

Is there no common sense in the Military any more? As an officer it is your duty to correct him and correct him harshly.

Response by SPC Michael Moore made Mar 21 at 2024 9:24 AM

2024-03-21T09:24:12-04:00

Out of Respect he needs to be corrected on the spot, I would find out what unit he is in and inform his NCOIC of this soldiers disrespect and disregard for Military Courtesy. If a SNCO was to hear that he wouldn’t be a SPC for long

Response by Capt Paul England made Mar 21 at 2024 8:39 PM

2024-03-21T20:39:29-04:00

I can be tolerant out of uniform in a civilian location, however, on the base or anywhere in uniform, I expect proper courtesy, and would stop and correct a member. All of us need to remember to respect the rank if not the individual.

Response by SFC Chad Kozdra made Mar 22 at 2024 6:43 PM

2024-03-22T18:43:07-04:00

Simple answer YES.

If you don't you are negligent in your leadership. If you slack on little things you will never have the ability to lead effectively.

Response by TSgt Eddie Andujar made Apr 6 at 2024 11:21 PM

2024-04-06T23:21:45-04:00

He should know better. You need to correct him immediately with his immediate supervisor present.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2024 11:12 AM

2024-04-07T11:12:39-04:00

100% It denoites who we are.