When counseling a Soldier for a incident/offense committed or supposedly committed, is there a time limit to give the soldier a counseling?

2019-06-03T14:14:20-04:00

If there is a timeline how does presenting the counseling after the limit effect the validity or likelihood of the chain of command pursuing UCMJ or other punishment? Any references?

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 3 at 2019 2:50 PM

2019-06-03T14:50:19-04:00

There is no timeline on counseling statements. To my knowledge there is no regulation that stipulates a timeframe in regards to a counseling with reference to an event. In my experience it has always been on an "as learned of/as needed" basis.

Command can purse UCMJ action regardless of time, with or without a counseling statement. A counseling statement merely serves as documentation of the particulars of an event ie "Pvt Johnson missed 0600 PT formation on 14 Jun 2010. He further missed morning formation at 0800 and again at 0900. Pvt Johnson had no account for this other than he overslept due to pain medication he had taken." So on and so forth. An NCO can counsel the soldier on a deficiency, command can later come along and decide that just a counseling statement was not a strong enough message to the individual and initiate UCMJ action.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2019 3:26 PM

2019-06-03T15:26:52-04:00

You can certainly counsel anyone on anything at any time. Whether you're past a stature of limitations for UCMJ is for JAG to figure out

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2019 4:13 PM

2019-06-03T16:13:02-04:00

The UCMJ has no statute of limitations but JAG might take issue with counseling statements being so far that memories might be tainted or if it seems the nco is being petty or vindictive, i.e just trying to stack the deck against the soldier to ensure a certain adverse action against them

ATP 6-22.1 is the counseling manual but it's a manual not a reg so it is only explanatory not regulatory.

Ar 27-10 for ucmj.

Response by MSG Lance Kelly made Jun 4 at 2019 12:57 PM

2019-06-04T12:57:52-04:00

As others have said there is no specific time limit on counseling. The unwritten rule would be to counsel as soon as possible as details fade over time. As a Soldier being counseled on an old event, especially if negative, I would note that in my response that it took a long time. There might be reasons such as leave or other duties that prevented it from being done sooner but otherwise doesn't look good if a leader waits until the end of the month and then presents several negative counselings all at once. I don't think a parent would wait until the end of the month and then spank their child for everything they did wrong throughout the month. The commands stance will depend on the leadership and their view of their leaders. I've had some poor leadership that didn't care when it was done as long as it was done. As for JAG (me), as long as their was a counseling statement in the packet we accepted it. I was one who looked at dates and would question timelines but the attorneys were more likely to just accept the document and proceed from there. The UCMJ does have limitations on certain offenses but if we are just talking about counseling statements then there is no regulation rule. Counseling, good or bad, should be done as soon as possible.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Jun 4 at 2019 1:13 PM

2019-06-04T13:13:57-04:00

Simply defined, Doctrine is what we teach (train/educate). The Army's Doctrine on counselling is established in ATP 6.22.1 which states that "successful counselling for specific performance occurs as close to the event as possible". When PVT Snuffy misses formation on 8 May and then again on 4 Jun and you counsel him and include both FTRs on one counselling statement, that counselling statement may have little effect from whether on not the Commander gives him an Article 15 since it is unlikely the requirement to attend formation is really a solider responsibility and not tied to whether on not you counselled the Solider. However, after he receives the Article 15, the Commander may have trouble using your counselling as a basis for discharge based on recurring misconduct since except in exceptional circumstances waiting nearly a month to counsel a soldier on the impact of missing formation probably doesn't meet the standard of as close to the event as possible.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2019 1:25 PM

2019-06-04T13:25:13-04:00

Alright now SSG , I know this may be a crazy thing to say but you are a SSG. You have UCMJ and ADP and ATP 6.22. You know this. Instead of taking 10 minutes to search a PDF formatted regulation, you turn to social media. Makes SSG like you and myself look incompetent and lazy. If you cant find the answer, your fellow SSG, SFC or 1SG damn sure better have the answer.