When did shaming those with PTSD become acceptable?

SGT C Mendez — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 12:38:40 -0400

I recently posted on RP in reference to people falsely claiming PTSD through the VA. I am all about a spirited conversation with different points of view but it doesn't mean that one should shame an individual for claiming PTSD benefits. An individual on RP attempted to shame a fellow Veteran about his PTSD and knocked RP for creating a supportive platform. What do you think?

Response by TSgt Joe C. made Oct 29 at 2016 12:40 PM

TSgt Joe C. — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 12:40:39 -0400

Never acceptable.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Oct 29 at 2016 1:50 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 13:50:01 -0400

It's not and who told you it was? There will ALWAYS be shammers and fakers in every aspect of life. It in NO way means all of a certain group are.

Response by SGT C Mendez made Oct 29 at 2016 2:13 PM

SGT C Mendez — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 14:13:24 -0400

***UPDATE***
I responded to the Veteran that I thought was being unfairly critiqued by an RP member. It turns out he was responding about a soldier of his possibly faking PTSD. The individual in question did not apply to these comments towards the RP Veteran but to all Veterans in general. Again, its not about getting anyone in trouble or being touchy feely, its about standing up for Vets that are claiming PTSD.

Response by PO1 James Campbell made Oct 29 at 2016 3:24 PM

PO1 James Campbell — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 15:24:00 -0400

I'd like to catch someone shaming a fellow Veteran about PTSD and then we'll see about Totally Acceptable getting your ass handed to you. We have 22 Veterans a day committing suicide. This is for real. We all have our own demons to fight we don't need our comrades in arms adding to the mix. Out...

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 29 at 2016 3:49 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 15:49:03 -0400

People with ptsd should never be shamed

Response by PO3 Ricky Foster made Oct 29 at 2016 6:11 PM

PO3 Ricky Foster — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 18:11:31 -0400

I can't help but agree. I too read that article and I have PTSD. I felt doubt and shame and questioned my mental stability. I was shot 3 times (body armor stopped 2, 1 thru my right hand). In my civilian life I was in multiple raids as a tactical medic for SWAT and a FF/Medic. Life and death was in my hands constantly and some choices still haunt me. I don't know why that article bothered me so much, maybe it made me feel like "stolen valor". I have come to terms with my PTSD disability and no long confused or shamed but I wonder how many like me with PTSD, hasn't come to terms with it after reading that article.

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made Oct 29 at 2016 6:12 PM

MAJ David Vermillion — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 18:12:20 -0400

Oftentimes the people slamming veterans with PTSD have no real knowledge of what they are saying. These military personnel who claim PTSD have been diagnosed by qualified medical personnel and are deserving of their ratings.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 29 at 2016 8:17 PM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 20:17:12 -0400

interesting...

Response by Col Val Finnell, MD, MPH made Oct 30 at 2016 8:06 AM

Col Val Finnell, MD, MPH — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 08:06:11 -0400

Unacceptable

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 30 at 2016 4:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 16:01:24 -0400

I have PTSD. Fortunately this has never happened to me. If it did I would bother me one bit. If I witnessed it happen to someone else, I would respond according to how the person being shamed responds. If they were upset, I would support them basically.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 31 at 2016 10:32 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 10:32:11 -0400

I don't believe shaming those with PTSD is acceptable... that being said though, they actually have to have PTSD. Now I would never shame any service member or veteran. But I do know some individuals in the civilian sector who claim they have PTSD because their mother yelled at them once as a kid. People who abuse the system and fake the funk are fair game in my opinion because they diminish the actual suffering of those who truly are afflicted with PTSD.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Oct 31 at 2016 12:17 PM

SSG Michael Scott — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 12:17:41 -0400

Folks, PTSD is real! For the ones of you who question the invisible wound. Put on your boots, and leave your way of life behind, while the rest of them sleep peacefully at night. Stand the post and see what war can be like once you have experienced it, and it stays with you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 31 at 2016 6:50 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:50:00 -0400

It is never alright to shame someone with PTSD. I was a soldier who never deployed though I'm learning it is a common thing for people (mostly civilians) to tell me I must have PTSD if I disagree with anything they say just because I have served my country. Just because I have served does not mean I have PTSD, I just don't agree with what the person may be saying. This sets me off every time.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Nov 1 at 2016 4:48 AM

LCpl Todd Houston — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 04:48:21 -0400

While I completely agree with allowing everyong their point of view, it is never acceptable to belittle someone on here. Back and forth banter is one thing, but I think we are all here to teach and learn from each other, not knock each other down. If someone, on RP or not, does try to "game" the system, they will eventually will get theirs in the end. Noone likes a thief. But noone here has the means of doing the investigation needed to prove that of anyone here. I feel that you having to even bring this up is well, sad.

Response by Cpl Dr Ronnie Manns made Nov 1 at 2016 7:47 AM

Cpl Dr Ronnie Manns — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 07:47:31 -0400

I believe that many have no true idea exactly what PTSD is except what they have heard. With that kind of a mental scar, you cannot be sure whose truthful and whose not.

Response by SP5 Bob Rudolph made Nov 1 at 2016 9:57 AM

SP5 Bob Rudolph — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 09:57:27 -0400

I think that shamming those with PTSD or Battle Fatigue or Shell Shock or Solders Heart after the Civil War or Nostalgia after the Revolutionary War, has been pretty standard within American society. The real question is how to make it absolutely unacceptable in our society as a whole. Those that haven’t served have no frame of reference except jealousy and contempt for someone with a wound they can’t see. Those that served but haven’t experienced combat don’t have a complete frame of reference either. I guess it is just something that takes time to percolate through society, I hope society in general becomes a bit more excepting, but it will take political leadership that has some respect for the military.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Nov 1 at 2016 10:29 AM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 10:29:24 -0400

Picture it, old bad-tempered graying redhead who stands all of 5'2 jumping in and taking on several rude, foul-mouthed teenagers when a man wearing a USMC tee shirt just folds ups into a little ball of horror when fireworks go off.
They were laughing and I am happy to say that my autistic daughter leaped right in as well, "Don't laugh... he's in hell... just go away!!" she bellowed, and I'm proud to say there is something about a statuesque blonde with waving fists and a voice like a bull horn that made them run. It took about an hour before we managed to relax him and get him to accept help getting out of there.
I can understand Civilians doing something like that, but when its other military who should know better, then I've got a really big problem.
You don't have to understand it, you don't need to tiptoe around it... just accept it as fact, and move on. Some of us can be in war zones without aftereffects that are so painful... some just have different stressors than others... its all part of what each of us has been thru in our lives and there's no way to know who will and who won't have it, and its not a sign of a weak mind or someone who 'CAN'T HANDLE' something.
There but for the grace of God, my friends... have a little understanding and don't let others get away with it when you see it, because we are loosing far too many of our brothers and sisters every single day to this horrible thing.

Response by SP5 William Glass made Nov 1 at 2016 10:44 AM

SP5 William Glass — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 10:44:29 -0400

The civilian world has not come to terms in trying to understand PTSD. They look at it as a mental problem. This is a serious issue especially with so many veterans committing suicide each and every day. I have PTSD but am getting the help I need now that I wish I had help with when I got of Vietnam. It seems, to me, that people more times then not associate PTSD mostly with Veterans when some in civilian life also suffer. Vietnam veterans were tagged with to many labels and now one more is added.

Response by PO2 Ben Ferguson made Nov 1 at 2016 11:02 AM

PO2 Ben Ferguson — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 11:02:57 -0400

Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. These wounded warriors need support and compassion not shunning and shaming. TBI, PTSD are real wounds of war...not some ploy to get sympathy.

Response by SPC Delbert DeTray made Nov 1 at 2016 12:32 PM

SPC Delbert DeTray — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 12:32:39 -0400

heres the thing we all fought for people to say stupid shit its in the constitution but do I agree with it hell no I have PTSD and have had people say stupid shit what do I do never talk to that idiot again and hope and pray they get into a car accident killing them and there spawn so stupid cant continue in that line. Joking aside I know some old grunts that dont believe in PTSD even now with scientific proof but thats how it goes its fucked up but everyone is entitled to there opinion god damn that hurt saying that no matter how much you hate it we fought for that right so thats how I stand.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 12:53 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 12:53:36 -0400

Must be old school. That attitude is left over from the WWII and Korean War days. I asked my Uncle about it back in the 90's, a combat Korean War vet. Shell shock and why it didn't seem we had too many PTSD from back then. He said they didn't treat it much back then, it was a stigma no one wanted to admit they had it and they learned to deal with it by themselves, they had families to support and needed to work. He said most coped with alcohol, vets with serious "shell shock" went to jail, just got killed committed suicide or died. He said that's why they didn't talk about the war. He had a lifelong friend he joined with, fought with and got out with and to this day they never discussed ANYTHING about the service. No veteran organizations, no parades, no war movies, no war talk. He finally went on a trip hosted by the Korean Government and accepted a medal and thanks from them forhaving served. My Aunt said it was pretty emotional and he STILL didn't talk about it after that. His word was "stigma" and how his generation viewed it. Apparently after reading this, it still goes on.

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Nov 1 at 2016 1:16 PM

SFC Brian Gillum — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 13:16:23 -0400

The question shouldn't be when did it become acceptable, it ought to be when will it become Unacceptable to shame those with PTSD (or any other mental issue - such as clinical depression).

Are there some who game the system? Absolutely. Like any system (those soldiers who have the physical profiles where a coma might still be in violation of some aspect, and breathing must be limited to 12 breaths a minute or less). Yeah, those folks are a real gas to have to be around. However, every faker is vastly outnumbered by those who have legit issues. And shaming, belittling, degrading and berating isn't helping the individual, or the unit, or helping to accomplish the mission.

The military is great at training us how to destroy stuff, and they do a pretty damn good job at figuring out how to fix or, at the least, minimize the physical damage that can be incurred by violence and chaos. But the psychic wounds that may occur; the mental aftermath of witnessing all of that. Not so much. Granted treatment-wise, diagnosis-wise, we are starting to get it, and improve. The stigma, however, that surrounds these types of things has not lost any ground, and is only reinforced by those who purposefully fail to understand that they are actually worsening the situation for all concerned by conducting themselves through their behavior.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 2:26 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 14:26:28 -0400

To those veterans who can admit that they need help with what they are going through, I salute you. To those veterans that mock others who need help, I say to you go seek help because you really do need it.
S/F,
Gunner K

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Nov 1 at 2016 3:39 PM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 15:39:30 -0400

It is never acceptable - PTSD is a combat injury and just always be treated as such.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 1 at 2016 4:48 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 16:48:06 -0400

This post and many like it bring the following quote to my mind each time "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

There are in my opinion and personal observation, many fraudulent cases of VA disability ..PTSD, TBI, Sleep apnea, non specific back injury/pain..ect.. Many were very vocal in telling me how I too could work a scam and get paid "big bucks"
That said I look at it as i do that quote..
We can not look down our nose or assume fraud, deny claims based on a small percentage of fraud.. To deny even one troubled vet because others before have tried to fake a claim would be wrong.
Out the fakers as they can be seen in the light of truth,,, but never assume another is a fraud because of a unrelated fake claim.

Response by SPC Kristina Robinson made Nov 1 at 2016 4:54 PM

SPC Kristina Robinson — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 16:54:57 -0400

Well how does one sdier know if another soldier does or doesnt have PTSD? Claiming Combat related PTSD and you never stepped a foot on foreign soil...well, not ok, but PTSD is not just a combat issue.

Response by SPC Kristina Robinson made Nov 1 at 2016 4:57 PM

SPC Kristina Robinson — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 16:57:58 -0400

First of all how does one know whether somebody has or does not have PTSD it's not something you can see. Are there soldiers out there who never hit a combat zone and are claiming combat-related PTSD I'm sure there are but PTSD comes in many different forms you don't have to see combat to have PTSD you could have been in a car accident you could have saw somebody get shot. The fastest no one knows by looking at somebody if they have PTSD or not you can't tell by simply looking at them and all forms of PTSD are different for everybody who has them some more severe so my minor son go in between both severe and minor so unless you've actually dealt with it and feel it no you should not shave somebody for having it

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Nov 1 at 2016 8:37 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Tue, 01 Nov 2016 20:37:41 -0400

Sp4 Byron Skinner. Since I have PTSD among other brain injuries and am under treatment by a VA MD Psychiatrist and am on medication for combat injuries from 50 years ago I will pass on making judgement on others. As far as acceptance, I doubt if it has ever been accepted by the general public even those that served. the for mass documented literature on this issue is the Soldiers Heart for the Civil War. In WW I it was shell shock and the most documented information if from the British, in WW II it was called Combat Fatigue and George C Scott's performance in the movie Patton says it all. From Vietnam an forward it is PTSD. It took decades for PTSD to become recognized. There are a number of books over the past twenty years that show the struggle and finally having PTSD appearing as a legitimate mental problem in the DSM edition 5. Having PTSD has not in its various forms dating back to the Civil War ever meet public acceptance. All the Veterans who claim it are just after a fat monthly check, they are fakers and slackers, probably new even saw combat

Response by SPC Christina Rao made Nov 2 at 2016 5:30 AM

SPC Christina Rao — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 05:30:04 -0400

Hit a nerve here. I've recently been diagnosed with PTSD caused from MST while serving 4 years back in the early 80's . I told NO ONE of the assault nor am I collecting any bene's from the VA. However, PTSD is a serious issue that if not dealt with can and will affect your life, the choice's youve made, the people you surround yourself with and it seriously limits you from obtaining your own self worth. If not treated, one will not be 100% successful in life, relationships, work, etc. I for one give a high five to my DR. at the VA who has showed me thru cognitive therapy that it wasn't my fault, and the way I've been thinking for 30 years was so warped and wrong. I actually had myself believing that it was my fault for enlisting in a man's Army. Anybody that shames a fellow veteran or anybody for having PTSD needs to be educated and perhaps be shit on by a bird after eating blueberries. Shame on them! PTSD CAN BE TREATED!

Response by Cpl Kyle Oberst made Nov 2 at 2016 10:45 AM

Cpl Kyle Oberst — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 10:45:03 -0400

We can't coddle those suffering. Like any mental illness the affected can't be allowed to build a wall of self pity and doubt between themselves and the real world.
If we love them we must fight for them.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2016 11:29 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Nov 2016 11:29:39 -0400

The VA makes the determination if a veteran is suffering from the effects of ptsd, not anyone here. No one has the right to knock anyone for any reason regarding their claims through the VA. If the VA finds their claim meets, or exceeds, the requirements for a rating decision in the SM's favor, the assigned rating is warranted. It really bugs me to see others ragging on other folks over Crud like this. Until you are a VA investigator or claims adjudicator shut the pie hole and move on. Remember, there are other people who think YOU (generic term usage, not personal here) don't deserve the rating(s) you may have. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Response by SSG George Duncan made Nov 3 at 2016 7:25 PM

SSG George Duncan — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 19:25:50 -0400

if combat doesn't change you have a problem making some one feel bad about the hell they live with u need a trip out back of the woodshed!

Response by GySgt Melissa Gravila made Dec 18 at 2016 10:09 PM

GySgt Melissa Gravila — Sun, 18 Dec 2016 22:09:26 -0500

I feel the need to weigh in here ladies and gentlemen- I personally have been dealing with PTSD/MST and batteling with the VA for over 15 years now. ( I have meds for it, but 0% disability rating? Seriously) It took many years for me to realize what my triggers are and how to "bite my tongue and draw blood" But one thing I won't stand for is for someone to try to shame me because of it! Trust me, it's a good thing I don't work with mind readers! When someone asks what's wrong? There's nothing I can say- they will never understand