When did soldiers stop saluting or getting out of their vehicle when retreat is played?

2016-05-21T13:57:22-04:00

I have been on Fort Carson recently and I have yet to see anyone stop and render the proper salute or acknowledgement. They just go about their day. I've also noticed it on Fort Bragg. We still need to pay respect to those that have served before us and this is indeed disrespectful. What's going on?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 2:02 PM

2016-05-21T14:02:45-04:00

That's strange. While I'm not stationed at either one I assure you it's not Army wide.

Response by MAJ Andrew Ready made May 21 at 2016 2:05 PM

2016-05-21T14:05:01-04:00

After retreat was played one time on Fort Benning, the CG told me to go get the names of two "Soldiers" that did not stop and salute. I was an E-2 at the time. I got the names and took them to building 4. This was in 1993.

Response by SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL made May 21 at 2016 2:05 PM

2016-05-21T14:05:28-04:00

SGT C Mendez wow this is disrespectful when I was in everyone stopped and paid their respects to old glory. Senior Leadership need to enforce the regulation and more importantly lead by example.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 2:12 PM

2016-05-21T14:12:46-04:00

I have actually noticed that here at Fort Bragg a lot. I will admit there has been times where I am at on Bragg towards Simmons airfield it is very hard to hear and we are always working in the motorpool and we fail to even notice the time. But most of time we are at our company and we all stop and salute still.

But even when I am off and I am on post at the time. I still pull over to the parking lot and get out and seems like everyone is in a hurry to get off post.

Response by SSG Ayron Hirschler made May 21 at 2016 2:13 PM

2016-05-21T14:13:00-04:00

I always hated seeing that sort of disrespect. It only commands a short few minutes and gives one an opportunity to reflect on the past, present and future of all fallen brothers/sisters in arms. I used to go nuts on soldiers that wouldn't pay their respect.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-05-21T14:14:13-04:00

While I was at Fort Hood everyone stopped. The stop incoming and out going traffic and you see every single person get out of there cars

Response by MAJ David Vermillion made May 21 at 2016 2:14 PM

2016-05-21T14:14:29-04:00

The old saying is, "Troops do what the Boss checks". I was always told the commander is responsible for everthing your troops do or fail to do. The Commanding General must not be concerned with it or else it would be enforced. The military is so slack now.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 2:24 PM

2016-05-21T14:24:57-04:00

I've only been on the road 4 or 5 times here at Fort Hood. For the most part everyone stops. I've only noticed one or two keep driving. One of them PASSING someone who was out and saluting. Another time at the ed center in the parking lot someone stayed in their car. I was in a parking space behind her, and there was someone outside of their large truck outside saluting just 50 get or so directly in front of her. I exchanged words with her, and of course she played dumb. I tend to be the guy that stops car I've l over the line a bit to "encourage" others to pay respects. Sign of the times I guess and the people recruiters and basic training have no qualms with pushing through. As a kid (army brat), EVERYONE outside, kids playing included, stopped what they were doing when the music sounded. Now...well, seems like respect is something the Army has to teach rather than recruit.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made May 21 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-05-21T15:09:26-04:00

It's not the post policy at FBNC. It was during my time at Ft. Hood. Nothing to see here.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 3:37 PM

2016-05-21T15:37:13-04:00

I have seen this as well, except on TRADOC posts. For example, on Fort Leonard Wood traffic stops, including taxi cabs right before the appropriate times, and all the occupants get out prepared to render proper acknowledgement. The dispatch for the taxi company will send out a warning to the drivers to let them know that it's time to pull over and get ready.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 5:38 PM

2016-05-21T17:38:51-04:00

Travel these roads in your mind and see where they lead. In 1963, a set of 45 Soviet goals to take over the US, were entered into the Congressional Record, thanks to a Florida politician. 2 years prior the Soviet influence suddenly appeared in Cuba. 2 years after Cuba, Marxist attempted to control the island of Hispanola ( Dominican Republic and Haiti ) In 1965 we stopped the Marxist in Santo Domingo. Also in 1965, LBJ upped the anti against Ho Chi Minh to 500,000 troops to South Viet Nam. 3 years later the NVA with support from the Chinese, dropped TET on the freedom initiative in the south. Behind the scenes, Tom Hayden and others formed the Students for a Democratic Society that advocated peace and were actively anti-war. A remarkable combination considering there was a Marxist influence deeply hidden in the US population that harbored a concept of Violent Overthrow of the US Government. This became more evident when the SDS split into the WeatherUnderGround. The leadership in the WeatherUnderGround felt the SDS was to soft. Billy Ayers and Berni Dohrn led the split along with Mike Klonsky ( avowed Communist ) and his wife. Then Klonsky formed the RM1 or 2, Revolutionary Movement I or II because he felt the Weathermen were too violent.In the next 5 years, The SDS and Weathermen had sent representatives to North Viet Nam, Hungary and Cuba. Bernie Dohrn and numerous women in the Weathermen went to Cuba ( supposedly to help with the sugar cane harvest ) Eventually, the SEDITIOUS organizations sent representatives to Paris for the Peace Accord Conference. Vain attempts to give the movement a Marxist legitimacy while at the same time blowing up police stations and other government buildings as well as themselves ( see Diane Oughton and others are killed when a bomb they were making blew them into the next county........want more? Google Noelle Ignatin, David Seigel, Dr Carlie Tanner, Ted Gold, Mark Rudd, also Google 45 Soviet goals........One more paragraph.

Billy Ayers and Bernie Dohrn both eventually became college professors. Billy teaching English ( U of Chi ) and Bernie teaching law ( Northwestern ). Because Bernie had been on the lam for her involvement with the Weathermen, she could not get her law license to practice in Illinois. Fortunately an attorney with Sidley Austin had connections at Northwestern and vouched for Bernie's character as a law professor. ( Howard Treinnens hired Bernie at Sidley Austin without a license to practice law) Along about this time, Michelle Robinson was hired at Sidley Austin. Soon after, Barack Obama left Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Galland LLC where he had done ACORN work, and was hired at Sidley Austin. Coincidentally, Sidley Austin was representing Commonwealth Edison whose President was Thomas G. Ayers, Billy's daddy. Enter Valerie Jarrett, who worked for Mayor Daley and was a southside slumlord and developer in the mold of Tony Rezko. Valerie Jarrett recruited Michelle Robinson Obama to work in the mayors political machine. Valerie Jarrett's father was a physician who worked in IRAN where Valerie was born and later strengthened her ties with the Muslim community while at Stanford. Slowly a picture is forming as to the organization that would encourage and support the political aspirations of one Barack Hussein Obama.. At the first meeting to launch Obama's campaign, we have the following upstanding members of the community, Billy Ayers, ( violent anti government activist, Rev Jeremiah Wright, Trinity United Church of Christ, Louis Farrakhan Nation of Islam, Rashid Khalidi, Palestinian Operative for Yassar Arafat PLO, and Henry Louis Gates Jr, Columbia University JOURNALISM professor, remember that) Could this information above be influential in reducing the amount of PATRIOTISM in the military as well as the nation.

Response by SFC(P) John McLaughlin made May 21 at 2016 6:02 PM

2016-05-21T18:02:10-04:00

When I was stationed at Ft Carson we all stopped. Same at Ft Hood.

Response by PO1 Tony Holland made May 21 at 2016 6:05 PM

2016-05-21T18:05:59-04:00

Is this just an Army thing? I never saw anyone get out of their vehicle on Navy or Air Force bases.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 21 at 2016 7:04 PM

2016-05-21T19:04:37-04:00

Things probably vary a bit among the services. On the Navy side, you're typically required to stop the car and just sit. Somewhere along the line, stopping a car and getting out while the one behind you had the ghetto blaster going full tilt and not stopping created more hazard.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 8:54 PM

2016-05-21T20:54:49-04:00

You're observation is correct. I always stop and get out of my car. Other drivers have honked at me before or driven around me. It's pretty pathetic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 10:14 PM

2016-05-21T22:14:37-04:00

I seen this a lot on fort hood and fort lee. Soldiers ducking into there cars and standing by the door while the music being played. Very sad to see what our army has come to. I know it's our job to correct soldiers. But a great leader cannot be every where at once. Some of our peers need to step up and enforce the standards more. We really need to get back to the basics.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made May 21 at 2016 11:10 PM

2016-05-21T23:10:08-04:00

SGT C Mendez I think a lot of places got away from doing what we are supposed to during the GWOT's height. At Stewart, when I was a 1SG, I would stop my truck in the middle of my lane so nobody could pass and salute while partially in the other lane. Yes it was a safety violation but I enjoyed showing the lazy that the were wrong.

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made May 22 at 2016 6:38 PM

2016-05-22T18:38:39-04:00

I know it's an Army thing, because we did it while stationed on an air base in Germany.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-05-24T09:01:23-04:00

Each installation has their own rules due to traffic flow and proximity to converging civilian traffic. Some you stop, some stop and exit, etc.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 9:43 AM

2016-05-24T09:43:43-04:00

I'm here at Carson too and I know what you mean. I do actually stop and get out if I'm still on post at that time, even if I had a line of cars behind me (it's a wicked bit of fun too swing the exasperated looks of the ppl behind me lol). But yeah, it's a shame. At some point in the past, that little tradition became unimportant or left untaught.

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made May 24 at 2016 9:55 AM

2016-05-24T09:55:06-04:00

I have seen this happen a few times , the last time the MP caught the person not coming to a stop and salute. The exception for indiv. dismounting are the ones who are displaying a handi cap plates and would have trouble dismounting there veh.

Response by SPC LaVerne Hatch made May 24 at 2016 10:17 AM

2016-05-24T10:17:17-04:00

The troops do what they they see their leadership do and get away with. This is something that needed to be adjusted from the top down. Every post I have been on service members stopped and got out of their cars.

Response by SSG Gordon Hill made May 24 at 2016 10:21 AM

2016-05-24T10:21:47-04:00

This a failure of leadership up and down the chain of command.

Response by SPC Jimmy Bowling made May 24 at 2016 10:41 AM

2016-05-24T10:41:05-04:00

I remember being taught this by my Recruiter when he was taking me to MEPS at Maxwell AFB. It was the very first Military Courtesy that I ever learned even before swearing my life to this country and its people! I was so proud to learn what it meant to do this!

It meant so much to me that for the next 8 years or more I never missed going out to salute the flag each morning and evening unless something absolutely got in my way to stop me! My family has hundreds of years total serving this country, at one point my Step-father, father, two brothers, myself and three cousins all served in the military at the same time. It has always been a family tradition to serve. I have never been to a base where this was just plain ignored. I would have a total fit if I saw this happening!

Response by SGT Jon Henri Matteau made May 24 at 2016 10:53 AM

2016-05-24T10:53:30-04:00

It depends on the priority of the mission and if the traffic configuration allows for it. It has always been that way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 12:11 PM

2016-05-24T12:11:58-04:00

I know what you mean. When I was at Fort Sill it was strictly enforced. When I got to Fort Drum, it seemed like I was the only one doing it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-05-24T13:36:19-04:00

I work on Redstone Arsenal and haven't noticed that here. I just spent a month at Ft. Sill and everyone there stopped.

Response by SPC William Moores made May 24 at 2016 3:12 PM

2016-05-24T15:12:19-04:00

Say it isn't so! My how the Army has changed.

Response by SPC Charles Sands made May 24 at 2016 4:23 PM

2016-05-24T16:23:35-04:00

When I was in there was no question about stopping and saluting. I know of only one time that it happening at Ft. Drum and the two pvt. were dispensary actions taken. and had to be at the flag pole for a month to salute which at the time was in front of head quarters. I have spent some time at Luke AFB were everytime that I saw everyone stooped got out of there cars and would salute.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made May 24 at 2016 4:46 PM

2016-05-24T16:46:26-04:00

Wow. Write to the post CC to give awareness to this lack of discipline.

Response by LTC Wayne Dandridge made May 25 at 2016 7:21 AM

2016-05-25T07:21:41-04:00

Amen Sgt Mendez.

Response by MAJ L. Nicholas Smith made May 25 at 2016 8:44 AM

2016-05-25T08:44:55-04:00

It is a leadership issue, enlisted and commissioned. They did it for the most part at Hood although I had to repeatedly tap on windows for soldiers to get out of their car. I was always looking around for slackers like a hawk because I had always done the right thing, enlisted and otherwise and it's up to leadership to ensure others do the same. It wasn't an issue at Benning or Bragg but that's been a while and things may have changed. Bottom line is if it is important to the commander, it soon becomes important to everyone else in the food chain. It all comes down to discipline. My kids do it still, and I'm retired but if we're on a post and the music plays, they know what to do. And they're 10 and 9.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 9:04 AM

2016-05-25T09:04:03-04:00

I was stationed at Westover Air Base for a few years, and when retreat was played most vehicles stopped until it ended. I don't recall seeing anyone get out to salute. I'd sometimes try to time my departure from duty so I'd catch retreat. I saw a Marine break off a conversation and duck into his car at the first few notes once to avoid the salute and I felt utter disdain for him.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made May 25 at 2016 11:27 AM

2016-05-25T11:27:50-04:00

SGT Mendez, this has become disgraceful to all the CORP; what is bad is that some people in certain units have posted it to TWITTER, and FB, myself as a Network Engineer found their IP ADDRESS, and others in there CSM in community and turned the pictures over to them with an ARTICLE #15 nothing less.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made May 25 at 2016 11:55 AM

2016-05-25T11:55:02-04:00

I'm probably going to ruffle a lot of feathers here but...
There is a discussion going on in another thread about Army traditions. While it is a nice tradition to render honors to the flag, perhaps the tradition has lost it's meaning? When you look up the history and origins you find some interesting legends: one being that it was initially fired to drive away evil spirits; another says - in more modern times that the firing of a gun near sunset was intended to call the troops back to the fort or camp from their fatigue duties of the day. The booming of the cannon could be heard at a greater distance than the sound of either drum or bugle. ...
The bugle was essential to all military communication until its displacement by electronics. In today's Army we all know when it's 5:00! Did you know there used to be as many as 30 bugle calls a day? One was for a water and stable call (horses received their afternoon watering...). Obviously we don't practice all of those traditions anymore. Because we don't need to.

It's obviously nice to uphold this tradition and there is no harm in it - But I confess (and putting on my armor for all the negative comments that are going to follow) I was one of "those" who made sure I was indoors during that time, yet I still respect the flag....
And I am an upstanding person of moral character....
And I am not lazy...
And I'm not pathetic.....

Response by LTJG Don Biscoe made May 25 at 2016 1:20 PM

2016-05-25T13:20:46-04:00

In the Navy.. back when John Paul Jones was sailing wooden ships only those in the open were required to stop, face the flag and salute...

Response by SGM Thomas Adderley made May 25 at 2016 3:32 PM

2016-05-25T15:32:19-04:00

Discipline must be enforced from the top down but especially by the NCO Corps. What you are experiencing is a lack of leadership and an 8 to 5 mentality, and no one is watching, I'm too busy, no one will stop me. As for the civilian workers they to are supposed to get out of their auto and stand facing the flag or music if it cannot be seen. But this also is a lack of moral strength- doing the right thing.

Response by SSG Kevin Prokop made May 25 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-05-25T17:58:32-04:00

probably following Obamas examples

Response by MSG Don Burt made May 25 at 2016 6:10 PM

2016-05-25T18:10:58-04:00

That's terrible! I've never seen someone not stop...if I did then I'd make a strong point in trying to
stop them and give'm a mouthful. I can't believe it's an SOP for the post...I would contact post HQ/MP and see what they say/do....You have to stand up for the right thing and do the right thing, PERIOD!

Response by SGT Cynthia Goodell made May 25 at 2016 8:19 PM

2016-05-25T20:19:17-04:00

I was stationed in Fort Carson and everyone stopped and saluted standing outside of there car. I have only been out 4 years. Someone needs to hem the leaders up and make sure their soldiers are doing the right thing.

Response by SPC Joseph Montgomery made May 25 at 2016 9:04 PM

2016-05-25T21:04:38-04:00

I asked this same question at Ft Leonard Wood. I was a dually given a really mouthed excuse about mission and other BS. What I ended up telling them was that it had. Nothing g to do with Afghanistan or Iraq. It had everything g to do with failed Leadership. I grew up a mi?start depending dent during g the Vietnam War and retreat was played and proper honors were paid. I told them I didn't want to hear an excuse for not it was happening but wanted the pride that was shown when I was a kid on that post shown again. Needless to say it didn't take very long for things to change because the last thing an Officer wanted associated with their name was lack of leadership.
My suggestion is to confront this lack of leadership at its core....the post Commander. From there it will be like a steam roller to the lowest Lt. And further to lowest enlisted person. Trust me when a 1st Sgt gets called on the carpet because one of his troops failed to stop and salute during retreat I guarantee it will t ever happen again.
It's sad that leadership in the military has slid to this point t but it only takes a brief word to get it back on track. I believe it's about time for the joint chiefs to be. Kids I to how low price has fallen in our military, in our country and in our flag and all that they stand for!

Response by SPC Richard Kimberly made May 25 at 2016 9:33 PM

2016-05-25T21:33:23-04:00

open post!!!!! traffic

Response by MAJ David White made May 27 at 2016 6:48 AM

2016-05-27T06:48:25-04:00

I left the service in 2000 after serving at Ft Bragg, Ft Carson, Ft Lewis, Ft Leonard Wood, Ft Bliss... tdy at Ft Benning , Ft Sam Houston, FAMC, Ft Polk along the way. Ft Polk, 1985; FAMC, 1987; Ft Sam, 1989 but not 1995; were the only posts/times I experienced Retreat as a cantonment-wide ceremony every day. Folks, for better or worse this ceremony has been fading for a while. Is it more or less important than shined shoes, the color of one's socks, whether one is wearing a reflective belt... it's all priority driven, and priorities are set at the top. I'll leave you with a quotation (unsure of original source): "The Army isn't what it used to be... in fact, it never was."

Response by SPC Brian Ruth made May 30 at 2016 1:21 AM

2016-05-30T01:21:32-04:00

This was going on when I was in 87 to 97. Some do and some don't hasn't changed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-06-09T13:36:02-04:00

I'm here on Carson as well and I've seen it. I be no problem pulling off the road and doing it for Retreat. I did exactly that last night. But I also noticed a crap tone of vehicles pass me and just keep on driving too. It's not being taught like that anymore unfortunately, and the lower enlisted see the NCOs and Officers doing what they can to duck into buildings to avoid rendering the honor. Our new 1SG started kicking everyone out of the building when it goes off just for that purpose, which sets a good example. So if we want to see that fixed, it's up to the NCOs to set the example, and reinforce why we do it and actually doing it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2016 1:02 PM

2016-06-23T13:02:32-04:00

After i retired, while working a contract job at Stewart i would still stop get out and salute... and dare somebody to say something.

Response by SGT Gary Sokol made Dec 15 at 2016 2:24 PM

2016-12-15T14:24:27-05:00

It appeared evident that some younger soldiers did not know or care to do this, but I was delighted when I noticed that they followed my example and did so.

Response by SGT Gary Sokol made Dec 15 at 2016 2:30 PM

2016-12-15T14:30:03-05:00

recently saw a post on facebook showing some children on a playground at a Marine Corps base, who stopped playing, and stood at attention facing the colors during retreat, then resumed playing.
needless to say, I was very impressed.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2018 5:55 PM

2018-09-06T17:55:21-04:00

Sometimes the joint base im on doesn't even play Reveille. That was an awkward formation. They also can't be bothered to play reveille/retreat at a consistent volume so people can hear it. It is pretty bad when it is 1730, and your car window is rolled down straining to hear music..... And you hear nothing.