When is it appropriate to salute indoors?

2016-05-01T23:10:20-04:00

This picture has stirred up some debate on Facebook because the Marine isn't saluting during the national anthem. In my nearly 10 years I have never seen a salute rendered indoors except when reporting to an officer or board, receiving a promotion or award, or by an individual on guard duty.

I've looked at AR 600-25 and it's not very clear to me. Armystudyguide.com says no you don't.

What's the correct answer?

Response by SSgt Terry P. made May 1 at 2016 11:46 PM

2016-05-01T23:46:21-04:00

The Marine is doing it correctly,if that isn't a duty belt he is wearing.

Response by SN Greg Wright made May 1 at 2016 11:47 PM

2016-05-01T23:47:39-04:00

Never, if you're in the Navy or Marines. (Marines can, under arms).

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 2:54 AM

2016-05-02T02:54:10-04:00

I'm off the impression if you wear your cover, it's a salute setting. However, you wear your cover when appropriate, and unless under arms, you don't wear your cover. Yes, a few exceptions. Dining facility, and the sort where policy applies. A potentially gray area for sure, but if it was prudent to wear cover, it was prudent was probably prudent to salute.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 2:57 AM

2016-05-02T02:57:22-04:00

AR 600-25 (at least the 2004 version, the latest I found on the net) states in Appendix C that military personnel in uniform indoors, not in a formation, whether wearing headgear or not, stand at attention but do not salute during the National anthem. At least in the Army, you never put your hand over your heart in uniform. That's strictly for civilian clothes.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made May 2 at 2016 6:34 AM

2016-05-02T06:34:48-04:00

AR 600-25 is not going to give you the answer on this. Army Regulations don't really apply to Naval Drill & Ceremonies.

You want the USMC Drill & Ceremonies Manual MCO P5060.20

1) Marines don't salute indoors.
2) We "generally" don't wear covers indoors, unless under arms (in possession of a weapon or on duty which is "figurative" armed).
3) The Marine in question is likely conforming to the Event: Cover on for appearances, but Gloves off (if we're outdoors in Blues gloves are on, if we're inside gloves are off).
4) The Anthem/Ensign rates a Salute or going to Attention, however, simply going to Attention would not "visible" on a stage, so rather than violating 1), he placed his hand on heart while at Attention which is a reasonable compromise.

So, he may have some "technical" errors but he maintains the Spirit of our (Naval Services) order in Priority and Protocol. No strict violations that I can see from the picture.

EDIT: Capt Joseph Olson Makes a GREAT point that there was "possibly" (I would say LIKELY) a Public Affairs/Information Officer there and this is a "Staged" Event, and the Marine had some "Directed" Actions.

The Location on the stage makes it "impossible" to face the Ensign (which is displayed on the screen), and "difficult" to face the Music to render Honors (without becoming a distraction to the Performer). This goes back to 3) Conforming to the Event.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 8:41 AM

2016-05-02T08:41:48-04:00

If he is wearing his cover he should salute.
From US Navy Regulations Section 1205
"Whenever the National Anthem is played, all naval service personnel not in formation shall stand at attention and face the national ensign. .... When covered, they shall come to the salute at the first note of the anthem, and shall remain at the salute until the last note of the anthem."

So the actual question is should he have been covered?

Response by SSG Jeremy Kohlwes made May 2 at 2016 8:54 AM

2016-05-02T08:54:54-04:00

I would agree with what several people have mentioned here. Since he is wearing his cover he should have saluted.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made May 2 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-05-02T09:37:12-04:00

Is it possible that this photograph was taken during the Pledge of Allegiance? Hey, I don't know. Indoors, Covered, No Gloves, No weapon. No Duty Belt. No Salute. The comments below are all solid. I know we all do things a little differently. But, not THAT differently. Lots of weird to me. Regardless, I will surmise this was a staged photo --someone wanted a Marine in Blues to add a little emphasis to the scenario.

Response by SFC John Hill made May 2 at 2016 10:09 AM

2016-05-02T10:09:57-04:00

Can't address what the USMC does, but in the Army See Appendix A-Saluting in FM 3-21.5(formerly FM 22-5) Drill and Ceremony. It is easier to read than the AR.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 10:33 AM

2016-05-02T10:33:01-04:00

If he's indoors, why is his cover on?

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-05-02T10:50:28-04:00

During Bush 43's watch, he signed an Executive Order which provided the RIGHT, not OBLIGATION, to all US military personnel, whether active, retired, Reserves, Guard, or simply former military personnel, to salute the US flag or render a salute during playing of the National Anthem: whether indoors or outdoors, covered or not covered, in uniform or in civilian clothes. The order was intended to clear up any confusion and to spell out all possible scenarios. However, under previous directives or even generations-old, military traditions, this Marine should be saluting. That said, he may simply be performing this "hand-over-heart gesture" to emphasize to the crowd the proper manner in which we all should honor our National Flag during the playing or singing of our National Anthem. My take.

Response by Sgt Douglas O'Neal made May 2 at 2016 11:53 AM

2016-05-02T11:53:49-04:00

I'm guessing the ensign is on the screen behind him, so no option to face the flag and salute, although I would have turned my back to the crowd and saluted anyway. Hand over heart is a civilian thing, never did it in uniform, never should be done in uniform. During the National Anthem, you stand at attention, face the flag or music. If you're covered, then you render the hand salute.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made May 2 at 2016 4:15 PM

2016-05-02T16:15:23-04:00

Here is the FM on saluting FM 3-21.5.

This is an exert from the reg.

A-1. WHEN TO SALUTE
Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons
entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public
conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when
driving a vehicle).
a. A salute is also rendered—
• When the United States National Anthem, “To the Color,” “Hail to the Chief,”
or foreign national anthems are played.
• To uncased National Color outdoors.
• On ceremonial occasions as prescribed in Part Two, Ceremonies.
• At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
• During the sounding of honors.
• When the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. flag is being recited outdoors.
• When turning over control of formations.
• When rendering reports.
• To officers of friendly foreign countries.
b. Salutes are not required when—
• Indoors, except when reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
• Addressing a prisoner.
• Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In these cases, only greetings are
exchanged. (Example 1: A person carrying articles with both hands, or being
otherwise so occupied as to make saluting impracticable, is not required to
salute a senior person or return the salute to a subordinate.)
• Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.
c. In any case not covered by specific instructions, the salute is rendered.
A-2. REPORTING INDOORS
When reporting to an officer in his office, the soldier removes his headgear, knocks, and
enters when told to do so. He approaches within two steps of the officer’s desk, halts,
salutes, and reports, “Sir (Ma’am), Private Jones reports.” The salute is held until the
report is completed and the salute has been returned by the officer. When the business is
completed, the soldier salutes, holds the salute until it has been returned, executes the
A-1
FM 3-21.5
appropriate facing movement, and departs. When reporting indoors under arms, the
procedure is the same except that the headgear is not removed and the soldier renders the
salute prescribed for the weapon with which he is armed.
NOTES: 1. The expression “under arms” means carrying a weapon in your hands by a
sling or holster.
2. When reporting to a non-commissioned officer, the procedures are the
same, except no salutes are exchanged.
A-3. REPORTING OUTDOORS
When reporting outdoors, the soldier moves rapidly toward the officer, halts
approximately three steps from the officer, salutes, and reports (as when indoors). When
the soldier is dismissed by the officer, salutes are again exchanged. If under arms, the
soldier carries the weapon in the manner prescribed for saluting.
A-4. SALUTING PERSONS IN VEHICLES
The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by grade or
identifying vehicle plates and or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy. Salutes are
not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately
owned vehicles except by gate guards, who render salutes to recognized officers in all
vehicles unless their duties make the salute impractical. When military personnel are
drivers of a moving vehicle, they do not initiate a salute (AR 600-25).
A-5. OTHER SALUTES
Other instances when saluting is an issue are discussed herein.
a. In Formation. Individuals in formation do not salute or return salutes except at
the command Present, ARMS. The individual in charge salutes and acknowledges
salutes for the entire formation. Commanders of organizations or detachments that are not
a part of a larger formation salute officers of higher grade by bringing the organization or
detachment to attention before saluting. When in the field under battle or simulated battle
conditions, the organization or detachment is not brought to attention. An individual in
formation at ease or at rest comes to attention when addressed by an officer. (Refer to
paragraph 3-5f, for more information on the hand salute).
b. Not in Formation. On the approach of an officer, a group of individuals not in
formation is called to Attention by the first person noticing the officer, and all come
sharply to Attention and salute. This action is to be taken at approximately 6 paces away
from the officer, or the closest point of approach. Individuals participating in games, and
members of work details, do not salute. The individual in charge of a work detail, if not
actively engaged, salutes and acknowledges Salutes for the entire detail. A unit resting
alongside a road does not come to Attention upon the approach of an officer; however, if
the officer addresses an individual (or group), the individual (or group) comes to
Attention and remains at Attention (unless otherwise ordered) until the termination of the
conversation, at which time the individual (or group) salutes the officer.
c. Outdoors. Whenever and wherever the United States National Anthem, “To the
Color,” “Reveille,” or “Hail to the Chief’ is played, at the first note, all dismounted
personnel in uniform and not in formation face the flag (or the music, if the flag is not in
A-2
FM 3-21.5
view), stand at Attention, and render the prescribed Salute. The position of Salute is held
until the last note of the music is sounded. Military personnel not in uniform will stand at
Attention (remove headdress, if any, with the right hand), and place the right hand over
the heart. Vehicles in motion are brought to a Halt. Persons riding in a passenger car or
on a motorcycle dismount and salute. Occupants of other types of military vehicles and
buses remain in the vehicle and sit at attention; the individual in charge of each vehicle
dismounts and renders the Hand Salute. Tank and armored car commanders salute from
the vehicle.
d. Indoors. When the National Anthem is played indoors, officers and enlisted
personnel stand at Attention and face the music, or the flag if one is present.
NOTE: Narrators or printed programs can help inform spectators of appropriate
responses.
A-6. SALUTING COLORS
National and organizational flags, which are mounted on flagstaffs equipped with finials,
are called Colors. Military personnel passing an uncased National Color salute at six
steps distance and hold the Salute until they have passed six steps beyond it. Similarly,
when the uncased Color passes by, they salute when it is six steps away and hold the
Salute until it has passed six steps beyond them.
NOTE: Small flags carried by individuals, such as those carried by civilian spectators
at a parade, are not saluted. It is improper to salute with any object in the right
hand or with a cigarette, cigar, or pipe in the mouth.
A-7. UNCOVERING
Officers and enlisted men under arms uncover only when—
• Seated as a member of (or in attendance on) a court or board.
• Entering places of divine worship.
• In attendance at an official reception.
Personnel remove their headdress indoors. When outdoors, military headdress is never
removed, or raised as a form of salutation. When appropriate, civilians may be saluted in
lieu of removing the headdress.
A-8. SALUTING UPON BOARDING NAVAL SHIPS
When Army personnel board U.S. Navy ships, either as an individual or as a unit leader,
they salute according to naval procedures.
a. When boarding a naval ship, upon reaching the top of the gangway, face and
salute the national ensign. After completing this salute, salute the officer of the deck who
will be standing on the quarter deck at the head of the gangway. When saluting the
officer of the deck, request permission to board, “Sir, Request permission to come
aboard.” The officer of the deck will return the salute.
b. When leaving the ship, render the same salutes in reverse order, and request
permission to leave, “Sir, Request permission to go ashore.”

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2016 4:52 PM

2016-05-02T16:52:28-04:00

In the USAF, we render respect by standing in attention and face the flag or general officer or higher when performing "Hail to the Chief." We do salute indoors when receiving an award from an officer such as an annual award trophy or a decoration.

Response by SGT Chris Hill made May 3 at 2016 12:52 PM

2016-05-03T12:52:55-04:00

When reporting to a payroll officer, commanding officer during official situations and when holding outdoor ceremonies indoors. Pretty much sums it up.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made May 3 at 2016 1:47 PM

2016-05-03T13:47:06-04:00

Marines do not salute indoors unless they are under arms. Period.

Response by SSG Dale London made May 5 at 2016 7:51 AM

2016-05-05T07:51:21-04:00

As far as I know, the only service that does NOT salute indoors in the Navy -- for traditional reasons. And, while the Marine Corps does fall under the Department of the Navy, their drill and ceremonies are more in line with the Army. In any case, this marine is wearing a cover so, for the purposes of D&C he's outdoors. He is not rendering proper military courtesy to the National Anthem.

Response by PO2 Richard Quickle made May 5 at 2016 8:05 AM

2016-05-05T08:05:00-04:00

Sailors don't salute indoors because we don't wear our covers. The closest I've came to saluting indoors is in the Hangar Bay of the USS Theodore Roosevelt while in port.

Response by COL John Power made May 5 at 2016 9:48 AM

2016-05-05T09:48:47-04:00

Great question. As I best recall when in uniform and indoors during the playing of the national anthem one typically stands at attention and doesn't render the hand salute. But then they are not usually covered. I think the rule is pretty simple actually. Covered - hand salute. Uncovered - attention. The observation about the Pledge of Allegiance is a different matter. I can't recall ever having encountered the question in almost 30 years of active duty! So now I'm a retiree and veteran and encouraged to salute at appropriate times while in civilian clothes. Whenever I'm at a ceremony outdoors I usually have a hat and salute the colors. But indoors? I'm used to just standing at attention but then feel I've messed up by not putting my hand over my heart as I would easily do during the pledge. Maybe we shouldn't worry about such stuff so much. Rendering appropriate respect to the event and honors is what is most important. I'm OK with the Marine in this photo.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 10:48 AM

2016-05-05T10:48:21-04:00

Marines do not render a salute unless wearing a cover. Marines don't wear a cover indoors unless under arms. Marines not covered will be a the POA during colors/anthems, in or out of uniform. No hand over heart. Pretty simple really.

This Marines was not under arms, so should have been uncovered, at the POA. If he was just going along wearing a cover, he should have saluted.

Now, in order to not cause embarrassment or to promote combined/joint values, we do sometimes break our rules. For instance, I have saluted indoors without cover at a RoK NDU graduation, and I have saluted the sentries/guards in civvies at Fort Bragg (just so that the Army won't think Marine officers are complete douche bags. Partial, yes, but not complete!)

Having said that, I absolutely, positively, without apologies or embarrassment refuse to come to the POA and salute reveille (and even less if I'm in PT gear) gear like they do at Bragg. No way in hell I am saluting a wake up call!

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made May 5 at 2016 10:54 AM

2016-05-05T10:54:43-04:00

If there was a public information officer there, the Marine was probably told to do this. Remember this is a concert or similar. If he saluted, his raised arm would distract attention from the singer. The event producers would object to that and, maybe, remove the Marine. The Corps, like all services, is very cooperative with event producers and always seeking to show off the Corps. Had I been the PIO, I would have "stretched" the Reg a bit to make sure the Corps got the visual time. Within the spirit, if not the letter.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2016 12:15 PM

2016-05-05T12:15:28-04:00

Naval personnel, which includes the Marine Corps is different. We don't salute without a cover (hat for you civilians) it's not really because we're indoors with the exception of being under Duty (Guard, MP's, Chaser) it's because when indoors, we uncover (take out hats off) and we never salute uncovered except as I mentioned. Got me in trouble when I joined the Army until I got used to it. WHY this Marine in the picture isn't saluting while covered is a mystery.

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made May 5 at 2016 3:25 PM

2016-05-05T15:25:13-04:00

I've seen a lot of comments about his cover being on. When participating in a civilian event he can wear his cover if it is expected as a part of his participation in the event. All services make allowances for this for civilian events. Been there done that with my sister services.

Response by Sgt Burt Barbre made May 5 at 2016 3:39 PM

2016-05-05T15:39:14-04:00

Unless times have changed, when I was in, Marines only salute when wearing a cover. You do not wear a cover indoors, unless you are under arms. Now the term under arms just does not mean that you have a pistol, but you can have a duty belt and be considered under arms.

Marines should never place their hand over their heart. Since the Marine is wearing a cover, he should have saluted properly. If he is in civilian clothes or in uniform without a cover, he should stand at attention.

Response by COL Robert Davies made May 5 at 2016 7:58 PM

2016-05-05T19:58:16-04:00

It may be USMC thang.

Case in point when the colors are taken out of the sleeve you salute. When the colors are posted during a function you face the colors, salute and follow the progress of the color until they are posted. If they just do a pass through then you follow them in and out. It could just be an Army thang.

In this case the flag is seeming behind him so you would have to ask an E-9 jarhead.

Response by LCpl Michael Harrell made May 5 at 2016 11:34 PM

2016-05-05T23:34:23-04:00

In the marine corps the only time a salute is rendered in doors is when you are covered and under arms period. There are no salutes while reporting to officers as you are indoors and not covered or under arms. This marine is doing exactly what protocol calls for by marine corps guide lines except he is wearing his cover indoors not allowed unless under arms.
The exception to the rule is two fold
1) you are in the presence of the commander in chief and under arms
2) you are in the presence of a Medal of Honor recipient! That rates a salute befor one to the CIC! Other than that marines do not and should not salute indoors unless covered and under arms!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made May 6 at 2016 1:16 PM

2016-05-06T13:16:31-04:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member We always saluted at pay call. "PFC Hayden reporting for pay sir" That was one of the few instances where the officer did not return the salute.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 2:42 PM

2016-05-06T14:42:32-04:00

I am sure this Marine did not say to himself. "I think I will get in my Dress and go to this event and stand next to the singer" and drive to the arena without notice and walk out on the ice. This was a planned event and I am sure that someone guided or directed the Marine on how to act during the event. If there were modifications to standard D&C procedure I am sure those were put in place by someone with more authority, The Marine was surely just doing as he was told.

Response by CPO Randy Francis made May 6 at 2016 3:20 PM

2016-05-06T15:20:50-04:00

He should be standing at the position of Attention with his hands at his sides. If covered, then it's the same as being on a drill deck then it's considered as being outdoors and he should be rendering a salute.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2016 6:47 PM

2016-05-06T18:47:12-04:00

There isn't any context to the picture...is the anthem playing, is he directing the crowd, is he inside or outside, is this part of a civilian ceremony? Until any facts come to light, all you have is speculation and conjecture...

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made May 6 at 2016 7:00 PM

2016-05-06T19:00:12-04:00

Belt = cover on your considered under arms, you don't salute indoors.

Response by CWO3 William Hanrahan made May 6 at 2016 8:50 PM

2016-05-06T20:50:14-04:00

First, the Marine Corps is not subject ti AR's, but I do agree the Marine inside with a cover on and not under arms can create some chatter. I suspect because he was inside during a pubic event that it was better to err by wearing the complete uniform. If had been me, I would have locked my body at the POA, but I'm a bit old school and still stay locked at the POA when in civilian attire w/o my hand over heart (thinking my SDI may reach out and choke me)! Reading Sgt Kennedy's reply below makes sense to me. Remember to all the Marines chiming below; you damn sure are saluting inside with a cover on for the ball.

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made May 6 at 2016 9:08 PM

2016-05-06T21:08:08-04:00

You don't salute indoors for the national anthem. You stand at attention.

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made May 6 at 2016 9:12 PM

2016-05-06T21:12:13-04:00

This is an outside event

Response by SFC Laurie Schultz made May 6 at 2016 9:14 PM

2016-05-06T21:14:26-04:00

And he should be standing at attention not holding his hand over heart. Not in uniform

Response by SP5 Richard Maze made May 7 at 2016 9:04 AM

2016-05-07T09:04:10-04:00

Everyone is assuming that he has his hand over his heart during the singing of the National Anthem, a conclusion drawn from the flag on the screen behind him. But, without audio, we cannot know if she is singing God Bless America, or Yankee Doodle or even Bubba Shoot the Juke Box. What is clear is that he is a prop at someone else's event, and most likely doing what he was told by someone higher up.

Response by Cpl John Mathews made May 7 at 2016 11:57 AM

2016-05-07T11:57:39-04:00

So it has been a little while, but here is what I was taught. The only time to salute indoors in when you ate under arms. When I was duty NCO I wore my cover indoors and saluted the OOD when reporting to him.

To me the questions are 1) was he considered to be outdoors because of the stadium like venue? And 2) why is he placing his hand over his heart, this is an exclusively civillian gesture in my mind. The only options when in uniform are stand at attention or stand st attention and salute.

Things may have changed a bit in the last 25 years, but that is what I recall.

Response by GySgt Thomas Reichard made May 7 at 2016 1:15 PM

2016-05-07T13:15:06-04:00

I'm shocked to see the Leatherneck in this picture. The hand over his heart is totally inappropriate when in uniform at anytime.

The proper action should have been a Hand Salute as he is covered. If un-covered then the proper action would have been for him to stand at attention.

When considered "Under Arms", any situation that would allow you to be covered indoors, it is proper and required (in saluting situations) to do so.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2016 1:43 PM

2016-05-07T13:43:30-04:00

The Marine is clearly in the wrong. If you are in uniform and wearing a cover you always salute. if uncovered, simply stand at attention. As a Sergeant of Marines this guy needs to be reprimanded.

Response by Cpl Jonathan Schmitt made May 7 at 2016 2:26 PM

2016-05-07T14:26:41-04:00

How about we let the Marines police their own...

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made May 7 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-05-07T14:39:46-04:00

About Saluting
General
The origin of the hand salute is uncertain. Some historians believe it began in late Roman times when assassinations were common. A citizen who wanted to see a public official had to approach with his right hand raised to show that he did not hold a weapon. Knights in armor raised visors with the right hand when meeting a comrade. This practice gradually became a way of showing respect and, in early American history, sometimes involved removing the hat. By 1820, the motion was modified to touching the hat, and since then it has become the hand salute used today. When to Salute
a. Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled (by grade) to a salute except when it is inappropriate or impractical (in public conveyances such as planes and buses, in public places such as inside theaters, or when driving a vehicle). A salute is also rendered:
(1) When the United States National Anthem, "To the Color," "Hail to the Chief," or foreign national anthems are played.
(2) To uncased National Color outdoors.
(3) On ceremonial occasions as prescribed in Chapter 9.
(4) At reveille and retreat ceremonies, during the raising or lowering of the flag.
(5) During the sounding of honors.
(6) When pledging allegiance to the US flag outdoors.
(7) When turning over control of formations.
(8) When rendering reports.
(9) To officers of friendly foreign countries.
b. Salutes are not required when:
(1) Indoors, except when reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
(2) A prisoner.
(3) Saluting is obviously inappropriate. (Example: A person carrying articles with both hands, or being otherwise so occupied as to make saluting impracticable, is not required to salute a senior person or return the salute to a subordinate.) In any case not covered by specific instructions, the salute is rendered.
(4) Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.Reporting Indoors
When reporting to an officer in his office, the soldier removes his headgear, knocks, and enters when told to do so. He approaches within two steps of the officer's desk, halts, salutes, and reports, "Sir (Ma'am), Private Jones reports." The salute is held until the report is completed and the salute has been returned by the officer. When the business is completed, the soldier salutes, holds the salute until it has been returned, executes the appropriate facing movement, and departs. When reporting indoors under arms, the procedure is the same except that the headgear is not removed and the soldier renders the salute prescribed for the weapon with which he is armed.

NOTE: The expression under arms means carrying a weapon in your hands, by a sling or holster.

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made May 7 at 2016 2:47 PM

2016-05-07T14:47:47-04:00

This is a Marine. Army regulations don't apply. I worked with and trained with Marines. They don't salute in doors and don't wear head gear indoors except while under arms. This Marine was indoors and didn't render a hand salute but did the next best thing by placing his hand over his heart.
Even though we are all in the US military each branch has their own quirks. Head gear and saluting are just a few. Have you ever noticed how Marines at the White House or Embassies stand "At Ease"?Their hands are in the front not behind them.

Response by GySgt James Murphy made May 7 at 2016 3:36 PM

2016-05-07T15:36:30-04:00

In ref to Navy/MarCorps regs you salute indoors head gear is on and armed. In this case duty belt, the white belt worn with dress blues.

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made May 7 at 2016 3:44 PM

2016-05-07T15:44:59-04:00

As a Marine, it's pretty simple. You are covered and Salute when outside and if inside, only when considered under arms. A Marine does not otherwise where a cover inside, nor Salute inside.

Response by COL Eric Rojo made May 7 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-05-07T15:50:12-04:00

there is an old proverb: 'Whenever in doubt, salute"
with regard to this picture, since the Marine was in uniform and wearing his cover, the answer is yes, but with the standard military salute -the hand in heart is for civilians-
to simplify the issue, a change to protocol now allows all military personnel, active or retired, in uniform or in civies to render the military "hand salute" whenever it is appropriate: the national anthem, rendering honor to the flag, etc. The main point of this change is to enhance the pride of military service and to distinguish those who serve or served from those who did not.

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made May 7 at 2016 5:06 PM

2016-05-07T17:06:44-04:00

If the Marine is covered, he salutes. If indoors, he is covered if carrying a side-arm, or wearing a duty belt. If covered indoors and putting your hand over your heart, your an idiot. At least he could stand-up straight. Was this Marine wounded overseas??

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2016 7:52 PM

2016-05-07T19:52:58-04:00

That is a interesting question. The picture raises some questions. Most events I have been indoors where you normally remove the head gear unless we were on duty ( like at the Embassy ). I also been told that you salute the flag and put your hand over your heart for the song. It appears that the flag is behind him. None the less I applaud his open show of patriotism and wouldn't put to much on the details considering the moment.

Response by Capt Dave Horn made May 7 at 2016 10:12 PM

2016-05-07T22:12:38-04:00

This is interesting to me. The person in the shot is not saluting in the normal sense. He has his hand over his heart as when you make a pledge (THE pledge). I've always associated that with the act of pledging, not saluting, or honoring the flag. I've always considered people placing their hand on their heart during the National Anthem as a well-meaning misunderstanding.

I'd like to hear any expert clarification on this.

Response by SFC Stuart Heard made May 7 at 2016 11:09 PM

2016-05-07T23:09:00-04:00

Marines do not salute indoors

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 2:17 PM

2016-05-08T14:17:01-04:00

IAW with AR, I don't know Marine regulation, he should be saluting. Not sure about the cover because that may be an open arena or a ceremony performed as an "outdoor" ceremony. However, regardless of his honors being presented there are a lot of things that may cause the Marine to being honoring the Anthem that way. In my experience, Marines are an organization of the highest standard and I would err on the side that the Marine is doing what is right be either exception to policy or a matter of sound judgment based on information neither one of us are privileged too.

Response by CWO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 8 at 2016 5:23 PM

2016-05-08T17:23:04-04:00

I'm going to give the Sgt the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing and that this isn't the National Anthem being played, but America The Beautiful.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 10:16 AM

2016-05-09T10:16:23-04:00

How does an AR which is a army regulation really help you to understand the Marine Corps regulations

Response by SrA Jerry Prizevoits made May 9 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-05-09T14:23:23-04:00

My response, I see a Marine locked in at attention showing respect for the colors. He may not have done it perfectly per regs, but I think our Brother represented all of us well. As a community we Veterans and Active Duty should close ranks and defend each other, because God knows everyone wants a piece of us if we screw up the slightest. Carry On!

Response by Sgt Clint Prestenbach made May 9 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-05-09T14:53:23-04:00

Marine corps regulations on saluting indoors is only under arms i.e. while on guard duty military police drill instructor wearing green web belt or senior drill instructor wearing black sam browne belt signifiying they are under arms color guard or silent drill team or nco or officer wearing a mamaluke or nco calvery sword
Now for the confusion that this seargeant is under arms bc hes wearing a white belt the white belt with brass plate for e3 and bellow and white belt brass plate with e.g.a. for ncos and officers is the correct belt for dress blues alphas and bravos
This being said i dont know why this marine is covered indoors maybe special detail?

Response by TSgt Gerald Wilson made May 9 at 2016 4:13 PM

2016-05-09T16:13:34-04:00

Keep this thread going.

Response by GySgt Jose Escarsega made May 9 at 2016 4:44 PM

2016-05-09T16:44:23-04:00

If your cover is on, then salute. Thus, he was in the wrong for wearing his cover or wrong for not saluting. As Marines see this, he was wrong. Staged or not, he should have known better. Army regulations do not apply to Marines. Our tradition can not be degrated because of public opinion. Semper Fi.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made May 9 at 2016 5:55 PM

2016-05-09T17:55:09-04:00

This guy is a Marine, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I will let the Marines respond to this one.

Response by TSgt Marco McDowell made May 9 at 2016 5:58 PM

2016-05-09T17:58:24-04:00

Since the majority of the civilian populace and sister services wouldn't understand why a Marine would be just "standing" there at the POA, I'm going to guess he did it to conform to said event. Every service handles the anthem differently in various situations. This guy is in a no win either way. He salutes and the Corps rages. No salute and the average Joe and apparently other branches rage. He picked a happy medium and still caught grief. But since he's a Sgt with a service stripe and two weapons quals, he'd probably tell everyone to kick rocks and knifehand you for questioning him.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 6:45 PM

2016-05-09T18:45:30-04:00

The circumstances, uniform, and sequence of events for these "ceremonies" are typically planned out to best fit the ceremony not the service regulations. Marines wear covers indoors for other ceremonies all the time, and saluting is highlighted in MCO P5060.20 W/CH1-5 and reinforced in ALMAR 052/08 which state that if covered for a ceremony or for non-ceremonial purposed both indoor and outdoor Marines should face the flag (or music if the flag can not be seen) and salute from the first note to the last. Now it is totally possible that whomever set up this event told the Marine wrong, i dont think he took it upon himself not to salute.

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made May 9 at 2016 7:08 PM

2016-05-09T19:08:47-04:00

While in the Army all ceremonies in and around deployments and homecomings were treated as "outdoor" ceremonies. Thus we saluted.
I would assume that all services have something close to the same regulation concerning saluting indoors. There is a United States Code U.S.C that allows for active duty and veterans to salute the flag while indoors of out.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 7:52 PM

2016-05-09T19:52:21-04:00

I've been in indoor ceremonies that were dubbed outdoor ceremonies, so we were required to wear a cover and salute. Not sure with this Devil Dog is putting his hand on his heart instead of saluting though. Maybe he's an actor.

Response by Maj Larry Carmon made May 9 at 2016 7:53 PM

2016-05-09T19:53:40-04:00

I would have saluted, because I was covered. But, that is my judgement, based on my experience.

Response by SPC Kaitlyn Novy made May 9 at 2016 10:46 PM

2016-05-09T22:46:35-04:00

As far as Marines go, indoors= cover off and position of attention. Outdoors= salute.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-05-10T10:27:55-04:00

AR = Army Regulation. What does the Marine Corps Regulation say?

Response by LCpl Terry Cox made May 10 at 2016 4:24 PM

2016-05-10T16:24:09-04:00

Why is he still wearing his cover ?

Response by PO1 Dennis Lee made May 10 at 2016 5:33 PM

2016-05-10T17:33:34-04:00

We.salute in hanger bays on board ships in port. This was a large arena, if he is covered and standing alone, it is ok

Response by ENS John Souders made May 10 at 2016 6:00 PM

2016-05-10T18:00:52-04:00

Some good answers here. In the Navy, when wearing a duty belt, you wore your cover even indoors. That allowed the salute by the one wearing the cover and a return greeting of the day if the other member was not covered.

Response by PO2 Erik Amato made May 10 at 2016 9:53 PM

2016-05-10T21:53:25-04:00

I watched this live on TV and raised the question to my buddies. The picture was taken at the Dallas stars hockey game the other day. For those mentioning the flag is behind him, that is simply a display on the jumbotron. He is in fact facing the flag. I thought it was different to place his hand over his heart rather than salute but like many others have stated probably doing what he was told.

Response by SPC Rodney Harp made May 11 at 2016 4:35 AM

2016-05-11T04:35:58-04:00

I have been out of service for quite some time, but my understanding was thet MARINES salute indoors only when confronted with a Medal of Honor recipient. Other services had their own salute traditions. Why is this an issue any way? The Marine pictured had his hand over his heart----a form of a salute. he rendered honors, and showed respect. If,,,,,IF he was not compliant with USMC regs, then retrain him. If he was compliant, then get over it...this is an example of a non issue being blown the EFFF up for no reason, especially since the original post mentions ARMY REGULATIONS specifically AR600-25 which does not apply to Marines.

Response by Maj Robert Marlow made May 11 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-05-11T13:07:25-04:00

If in doors for national anthem and in uniform, you stand at attention and face the flag...if in civilian clothes, face the flag and put you hand over your heart....You would salut the flag during the posting of colors but not during the national anthem inside....

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made May 12 at 2016 5:08 AM

2016-05-12T05:08:11-04:00

Anyone who has been in the military for a while knows that there is a regulation or a rule for EVERYTHING! In this case, Title 4 of the United States Code is the "reg":

Title 4 United States Code:
§ 4. Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag; Manner of Delivery.
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the
United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at
attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the
left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain
silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.

The last sentence of this paragraph states what "should" be done by all uniformed military personnel. So, this rule leaves room for other variations, such as reciting the pledge with hand over heart. I am a JROTC instructor and recite the pledge daily with my cadets. When in uniform, I recite it while at attention, but do not place my hand over my heart. There are other instructors who do place their hand over their heart.

I believe that what is most important for this Marine and for all us is that we honor our nation properly and do what is appropriate in these situations. The nation is collectively looking to us when it comes to proper customs and courtesies.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2016 7:03 AM

2016-05-12T07:03:20-04:00

I was raised where if the National Anthem was playing if in uniform and had a cover on you saluted. If indoors you stood at attention and faced the music. With this marines situation he should have been at attention at a minimum not with his hand over his heart period.Hand over the heart was only for the pledge of allegiance. Not sure when the hand over the heart thing came in to play. I believe it was after 9/11/01

Response by SSgt Thorin Palladino made May 12 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-05-12T12:33:01-04:00

When you are at these events as part of the ceremony you do what you are told. Very often your orders violate the uniform regs in some way. Sometimes they don't want you wearing gloves when you do that 50 foot flag display (flags are slippery in gloves), sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't want you wearing your cover even though you are not indoors (scrambling off the field with that big flag) and sometimes they do. Each event is different.

I have no idea what old boy is doing up with the singer instead of with the rest of the detail. Being out there alone as the center of attention he should be in full uniform and saluting.

Response by PO3 Chaz Sutherland made May 12 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-05-12T13:01:40-04:00

There was a simple rule in the Navy; When covered, salute.

However, it's a minor infraction, and whether it's wrong or right, at least he's paying some form of respect.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2016 9:58 PM

2016-05-13T21:58:18-04:00

Good conversation, I can see the dilemma, and as an event participant I always try to shape the event so that we as the nations military are not embarrassed. However, sometimes we are required to perform in order to show support. I think an indoor salute (given the headgear) would not have killed him but then again he might have been following instructions form a more senior NCO (PAO).

Response by PO3 Jonas M. made May 14 at 2016 8:01 AM

2016-05-14T08:01:01-04:00

Each branch has different rules...

According to AR 600-25, Chapter 1, section 5, paragraph c: ...Personnel will not salute indoors except when reporting to a superior officer.

According to US Navy Regulations, chapter 12 & OPNAVIST 1710.7A, Naval personnel always salute, indoors or out. For the national anthem, all naval personnel, not in formation stand at attention and salute, if covered. If in formation, only the formation commander salutes. For a ceremony, the procedures for the specific ceremony will dictate the proper procedure.

The Marines follow the Navy in this instance. Unless ceremony procedures dictated otherwise, the Marine should have saluted. I have never seen a military person in uniform, covered, place their hand over their heart.

Response by PO2 Dianira De Villaran made May 14 at 2016 3:33 PM

2016-05-14T15:33:54-04:00

You dont salute you are indoor Why the cover you beside the flag.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2016 6:46 PM

2016-05-15T18:46:09-04:00

I am horrified - in the Dress Blue A and B, if you have a cover on, your also have your gloves on. If you're covered, you salute. If you're uncovered, you stand at the position of attention.

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made May 26 at 2016 12:17 PM

2016-05-26T12:17:24-04:00

Never saluted if we were uncoivered and we were never covered indoors for the most part.

Response by LCpl Todd Houston made Aug 23 at 2016 9:00 PM

2016-08-23T21:00:14-04:00

After reading many comments, one thing is abundantly clear, regardless of rank, time in service or branch, almost everyone is confused. One thing i distinctly remember from boot camp was that if a bulkhead (ceiling) is higher than 12', it is the same as being outside, ie...an airport. Therefore, cover on. With the cover on, a hand salute is appropriate. Now, with that said, i got out in 92' , i am certain things may have changed. One thing i will never do though is publically bust the balls of any service member, devil dog or not, for making a judgement call when he was probably just as confused as the rest of us and MOST likely had to make a split decision as these things are rarely staged. The Marine Corps stays out of the business of civilian functions and no civilian has any authority over military customs. Just sayin'.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2016 11:23 PM

2016-08-23T23:23:19-04:00

To give an example; during the Marine Corps Ball ceremony held indoors, the commanding officer has the option of wearing a cover. If he/she does so, a salute is rendered to the colors presented to him/her. If no cover, no salute.

S/F

Response by Maj Ken Brown made Aug 24 at 2016 11:24 AM

2016-08-24T11:24:10-04:00

The sergeant appears to be wearing a duty belt; hence, a salute would be appropriate.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 2:38 PM

2016-08-24T14:38:54-04:00

He should've just been standing at attention but I guess we do what we want theses days thank his he didn't salute he would've never lived that shit down

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2016 4:09 PM

2016-08-24T16:09:45-04:00

At least in the Army, if you are indoors, a salute is authorized in uniform during the National Anthem. However, outside of that, it remains to be only when reporting to a senior or to a board.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2017 9:29 AM

2017-11-11T09:29:42-05:00

So correct me if I’m wrong, but a service member in uniform indoors in a lobby area of a sports game should move to the position of attention facing the general area of the music/flag and salute even without wearing any headgear?

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Nov 15 at 2017 1:12 PM

2017-11-15T13:12:49-05:00

I love that we have the luxury of spending so much time on a trivial issue like this. I believe the Marine is "showing" the crowd what to do. I now salute at baseball games and public gatherings in civi's. I was at Game 2 of the World Series and saluted during the national anthem and saw a kid a couple of seats away change from a hand over the heart to a salute it was cute. I bet he will be a future member of the armed services. Carry On

Response by Cpl Scott McCarroll made Nov 15 at 2017 1:28 PM

2017-11-15T13:28:04-05:00

Ok, could you say that the White Belt (Or a white cartridge belt) would be under arms, while doing fire watch though out all the time I was in the Corp was considered being under arms even though I was not carrying a weapon. On the 200 anniversary I was part of the honor guard presenting the colors, if I remember correctly we wore white cartridge belts. Our covers we're also secured with the chin strap.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2018 2:44 PM

2018-06-03T14:44:01-04:00

https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609

FYI for those veterans and service members out of uniform during the National Anthem.

pressrelease.cfm

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Jun 3 at 2018 8:05 PM

2018-06-03T20:05:35-04:00

Maybe he was just adjusting his ribbons.

Response by Cpl Mark White made Jan 14 at 2019 11:08 AM

2019-01-14T11:08:37-05:00

There are just so many variables, was the Marine in question active, or was he out and wearing the uniform for an event he was recognized at for being a veteran, and as such maybe confused as to what wheather a salute was proper? Covered inside while not under arms makes me believe this was orchestrated for appearances. Technically if he had been indoors under cover and on duty or armed he should have rendered a hand salute. Like I said this looks to me like a Marine Corps veteran at an event.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 14 at 2019 12:27 PM

2019-01-14T12:27:00-05:00

SSG Private RallyPoint Member the regulation refers you to FM 3-21.5 which is now TC 3-21.5 Appendix A covers when to salute, including indoors occasions. TC 3-21.5 is available on APD.

Pledge of Allegiance confuses civilians when we are in uniform.

AR 600-25 para 1–12. Pledge of Allegiance to the flag
Soldiers may recite the Pledge of Allegiance as noted below in accordance with Section 4, Title 4, United States Code (4 USC 4)—
a. During military ceremonies, soldiers will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
b. At official functions, social events, and sporting events, soldiers should—
(1) When in uniform, outdoors, stand at attention, remain silent, face the flag, and render the hand salute.
(2) When in uniform, indoors, stand at attention, remain silent, and face the flag.
(3) When in civilian attire, stand at attention, face the flag with the right hand over the heart and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Headgear should be removed with the right hand and held over the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 14 at 2019 12:43 PM

2019-01-14T12:43:16-05:00

The refs are not vague and you have all aptly covered what is right. However, allowing for ambiguity is not in compliance with good order and discipline. We do not get to pick and choose based on the mood of the nation or individuals. All service members should read policy and regulation prior to stepping into the linelite. My final note is whether right or wrong it is done. I thank him and you all for your service.

Response by MSgt Beverly Chmelik made Jan 14 at 2019 1:10 PM

2019-01-14T13:10:44-05:00

The US Flag Code also states saluting indoors or out, in and out of uniform, for active duty, reserves and vets.

Response by SGT Mike Starr made Jan 14 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-01-14T14:29:26-05:00

Yes you salute indoors and now veterans can salute the national anthem in or outdoors . The Marine is wrong

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 2:47 PM

2019-01-14T14:47:33-05:00

Depends on the branch and the circumstances.

Response by GySgt Lap Yan made Jan 14 at 2019 3:39 PM

2019-01-14T15:39:00-05:00

Marines do not salute inside unless under arms ie on duty. Technically the marine should have just stood at position of attention and face the flag.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 4:10 PM

2019-01-14T16:10:30-05:00

He should have been saluting during the national anthem facing the flag. Naval services do not salute indoors unless it’s a ceremony and you are covered. Seldom does a Marine make such a mistake.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 5:45 PM

2019-01-14T17:45:04-05:00

I don’t know of any Marine Corps ball in recent times that is held outdoors. During the ceremony covers are on and gloves are on. Even though we’re indoors, the occasion takes precedence over the usual rules and regulations practiced.

Response by Cpl Erik Van Der Voort made Jan 14 at 2019 6:00 PM

2019-01-14T18:00:40-05:00

If your cover is on, you salute. Not alot of wiggle room on this one. This individual is going to be hearing from his SargentMajor today. Won't be pleasant....for him.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made Jan 14 at 2019 10:34 PM

2019-01-14T22:34:34-05:00

The main thing about this Marine is that he maintained his military bearing and looked completely professional in his actions. I am retired Army and I think he acted in a manner so as not to discredit the Corps.

Response by LCpl Jay Thann made Jan 14 at 2019 11:58 PM

2019-01-14T23:58:18-05:00

Why are you reading the AR when he is a Marine.

Response by SSG Richard Williams made Jan 15 at 2019 5:49 AM

2019-01-15T05:49:31-05:00

When receiving pay.

Response by Sgt Ed Novak made Jan 15 at 2019 8:30 AM

2019-01-15T08:30:17-05:00

I cannot see where to ask my question....outdoors, at a parade - I seem to remember during classes at basic training that one only stands and renders respect to the FIRST passing the parades color guard; thereafter, any flag leading a parade unit IS NOT Required. Is this true??

Response by MSgt John McDowell made Jan 15 at 2019 2:36 PM

2019-01-15T14:36:13-05:00

That's the only time, also to include change of command or any other official ceremony.

Response by SPC Jim Pfeifer made Jan 15 at 2019 6:08 PM

2019-01-15T18:08:14-05:00

From my understanding uncovered in doors but there exceptions for ceremonial events but then he should have had his gloves on and gave the proper hand salute. But it's the Marines and they are a little different.

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made Jan 15 at 2019 6:49 PM

2019-01-15T18:49:10-05:00

Bigger question for me is why performers no longer stand at attention while singing the Anthem. They used to, now they have all kinds of hand gestures, and other movements, not to mention, just plain out destroying our Anthem......smh

Response by SSG Mark DeTillion made Jan 15 at 2019 7:17 PM

2019-01-15T19:17:09-05:00

Guy has on a duty belt. In the Marine Corps he’s considered under arms and should salute. Not sure why this bonehead has his hand over his heart.

Response by SGT Keith Vulhop made Jan 15 at 2019 7:38 PM

2019-01-15T19:38:01-05:00

You cannot tell which song is playing based solely on a picture. It may be “God Bless America” which would not receive a salute

Response by LCpl Timothy Markin made Jan 15 at 2019 9:30 PM

2019-01-15T21:30:26-05:00

For the Marine Corps, I wouldn’t refer to an Army manual. If memory serves, that Marine should be standing at attention during the National Anthem.

Response by SPC Tj F. made Jan 15 at 2019 10:50 PM

2019-01-15T22:50:15-05:00

If you're in uniform during the National Anthem, you salute. Period. If you want to put your hand over your heart, go civvy. U less he was directing the audience to put their hand over their heart and giving physical direction, he should be saluting in uniform. Imo.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 15 at 2019 10:52 PM

2019-01-15T22:52:46-05:00

Okay FIRST OFF. Placing ones hand, over ones heart, IS A SALUTE. it is how we salute the flag WHILE IN CIVILIAN ATTIRE. SO the first thing he did wrong was that. PERIOD.

The "rule" i was taught in both the Army and the Navy is that you never salute uncovered. The navy considers one uncovered if ones service cap, garrison cap, white hat, ball cap, etc IS OFF, which usually happens indoors. However if one is on watch, one generally is armed and has a cover, and that is why watch standers/guards salute.

In the Army I was taught being indoors, and hat less, one was still "covered" as the "roof" was the cover. I do not know if this is true or not; While in the army, if i was to report to an OFFICER i was required to salute (even indoors); reporting to the 1SG was done at attention.

When addressing the flag. if the colors are visible one is to face the colors and salute when outside. If the colors are not visible (sch as reveille or retreat) on is to face forward and salute, again if outside. If inside one is to do each of these except that one does not salute the colors indoors, one stands at attention.

Response by Cpl Westin Sandberg made Jan 16 at 2019 9:07 AM

2019-01-16T09:07:17-05:00

When I was active in the Corps, there were a few instances in which we would be in public in uniform and were ordered to basically mimic the crowd of the public, to be politically correct. If the public were to bow their heads during a speakers prayer we were to do the same (although this is also naval tradition) I guess a more fitting example would be if everyone in the crowd was told to stand up and close their eyes (like for example during a blind poll, I'm sure you all have experienced this at least one in your life) we were expected to follow suit. Even if it was technically against naval or corps tradition.

Response by Cpl Westin Sandberg made Jan 16 at 2019 9:08 AM

2019-01-16T09:08:12-05:00

The short answer I guess its the one I always hated hearing in the military... "Situation Dictates. "

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jan 16 at 2019 3:18 PM

2019-01-16T15:18:03-05:00

You would salute indoors only when reporting to an Officer and if You work int e same office only the firs time during the day. Its not required each time You enter His office as an example once its been done. Salute aren't exchanged otherwise indoors including passing in hallways as an example. If covered (wearing at hat) which You would if under arms or in a ceremony (even unarmed) but covered a salute should be rendered. In civilian clothes a salute can be rendered, (due to recent changes) outdoors or indoors on the playing of the National anthem but its not mandatory, in all events, as a minimum stand at attention and either place Your right hand over Your heart or now You could also salute if You choose to so so.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Jan 16 at 2019 11:07 PM

2019-01-16T23:07:18-05:00

Marine is covered (wearing a hat for you non-Marines) and not part of a larger formation where the unit leader would be saluting. Hand salute is appropriate.

Response by MAJ James Woods made Feb 3 at 2019 12:02 PM

2019-02-03T12:02:48-05:00

Not knowing the full context of thos picture, one rule of thumb I’ve seen used is if the situation calls for you to wear headgear indoors as part of a formal event then you’re authorized to salute. This Marine would’ve been fine just standing at attention. Those criticizing this photo are simply demonstrating their ignorance.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Mar 2 at 2019 4:34 AM

2019-03-02T04:34:15-05:00

When I was in the Army, The only times I saluted indoors was when I was reporting to a Commanding Officer, or for a promotion board.

Response by LCpl Odell Taylor made Mar 9 at 2019 7:05 PM

2019-03-09T19:05:46-05:00

I have been separated from the USMC since 1965. If the Marine is indoors and not 'under arms' he was required to remove his cover and stand at attention while placing his hand over his heart. Since he is showing respect for the symbol (FLAG) of our Great Nation and its anthem (Star Spangled Banner) far be it from me to persecute a brother Marine for such a slight faux pa. Normally no one but an active member of the military or veteran would know the difference. In these times of extreme PC can't we cut him but a bit of 'slack'??

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2019 11:20 AM

2019-03-23T11:20:13-04:00

I got to be on the ice in my service uniform to be honored at a NHL hockey game: I’d have to track down the video, but I believe I was told just to stand at attention, just like when the anthem is played during military ceremonies indoors. I’m also pretty sure my hat was off. I agree that it is a pretty grey area.

Response by PO2 Seth Carron made Mar 23 at 2019 11:21 AM

2019-03-23T11:21:38-04:00

If covered, you salute. When in doubt, salute.

Response by SSG James Oliver Nathan Jr made Mar 23 at 2019 11:26 AM

2019-03-23T11:26:37-04:00

You stand and face the Flag and Salute for the Natioval Anthem. I don't care who your are. Stand up and Salute or Shut the Hell Up!

Response by Sgt William Margeson made Mar 24 at 2019 4:22 PM

2019-03-24T16:22:57-04:00

Saluting indoors is a no no.( USMC) Exceptions when under arms, such as Duty NCO, or pay call. Marine was indoors, and should not have been covered.

Response by MSG Mel Trout made Jul 13 at 2019 1:19 PM

2019-07-13T13:19:41-04:00

Just an opinion but if I was in the audience and not a veteran, I would consider that a show of respect. As a veteran I know if he was to render a salute he would have to turn and face the Flag. But you all know about opinions

Response by TSgt John Dias made Jul 13 at 2019 1:59 PM

2019-07-13T13:59:42-04:00

Conduct during the National Anthem is not in the Flag Code (Title 4 Chapter 1) rather it is in:
United States Code Title 36
§301. National anthem
a. Designation. — The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
b. Conduct During Playing — During rendition of the national anthem —
1. when the flag is displayed —
A. individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;
B. members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and
C. all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
2. when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.
****
There is no distinction between indoors/outdoors.

For Navy ref: Navy Flag Regulations Navy NTP-13B
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/ntp13b.pdf

ntp13b.pdf

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Response by SPC John Decker made Jul 13 at 2019 6:03 PM

2019-07-13T18:03:42-04:00

When I was in the Army, The only time you kept a "cover" on, indoors, was if you were" under arms". A proper hand salute was required for the National Anthem. Indoors or out. That being said, is it possible that the individual pictured is NOT actually a Marine?

Response by SFC Javier CruzColon made Jul 14 at 2019 8:25 AM

2019-07-14T08:25:18-04:00

I understand very well the regulations but if you are wearing headgear you will salute in door.

Response by Capt Raymond Lewis made Nov 19 at 2020 2:26 PM

2020-11-19T14:26:42-05:00

Marines do not render a salute NOR wear a cover inside unless they are also wearing a Duty Belt and are on duty.

Response by CWO5 Ray Lee made Dec 19 at 2020 9:38 PM

2020-12-19T21:38:49-05:00

Marines don’t salute indoor unless he is in full uniform and under covered (hat on).

Response by SSgt Dany Oliva made May 22 at 2021 7:50 AM

2021-05-22T07:50:49-04:00

Even though Bush changed some things up the USMC still follows their own rules for honor and tradition.

https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/886473/customs-and-traditions/

CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS

R 161950Z Dec 08UNCLASSIFIED//ALMAR 052/08MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC CMC//SUBJ/CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS//REF/A/DESC:DOC/CMC WASHINGTON DC/05MAY2003//AMPN/REF A IS MCO P5060.20, MARINE CORPS DRILL

Response by CW3 Chuck Huddleston made Apr 25 at 2022 11:03 AM

2022-04-25T11:03:27-04:00

Pay Call!