When is it "ok" for soldiers to deblouse while in garrison?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:30:43 -0400

Having been at Ft Bliss (dry heat) and now being at Ft Riley (Very humid heat) when is it acceptable for soldiers to modify the uniform? We are hitting heat cat 3 & 4 every day now and there's many solders (including my wife's unit) who work outside all day every day right under the sun which is tough. Up until recently there has been no issue with them (this specific unit is a UAS platoon so they're on an air strip for hours) taking off their tops due to the extreme heat. Recently they were told "Army policy says you're allowed to roll sleeves not take off tops so no more taking them off." Knowing a bit about how regs work there is no "Army policy" but rather a regulation that leaves it up to the local commander to decide (which is usually overruled by crusty grumpy 1SG's for no reason at all).

So my question is, because I can't find supporting regs to try and help out, when is it acceptable for soldiers to remove tops? Is it just never? Is it a local call from someone willing to take the heat round because at the end of the day as NCOs we are responsible for the welfare of our soldiers?

I am somewhat hoping a medical person will chime in with the heat index recommendations or something along those lines but overall I'm curious on your thoughts.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 16 at 2021 2:37 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:37:10 -0400

Our medical platoon officer told our maintenance platoon that anytime it was overly hot when they were tearing a tank or PC down to work on it , to get down to their tee shirt and unblouse their pants because they were normally working in the middle of a Sandy area, which multiplied the heat brother SFC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jun 16 at 2021 2:41 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 14:41:37 -0400

Speaking as a CRUSTY,GRUMPY (RETIRED) 1SG, detail uniforms are usually left up to Commanders and enforced by the NCO's. I just happen to have some recent knowledge about Bliss and the current toxic leadership epidemic there and at many other bases. Troop welfare is not high on the list of importance there. But I will interject that removing your blouse while standing outside in direct sunlight is much worse than sweating in your uniform. The trade off is relative conforms for a short period or Sunburn for a few days. As much as I love having my shirt off doing details I did not like teh sunburn and my COC sure didn't want to explain to higher about all the sunburns that would have happened if we didn't use common sense. My youngest did a ruck march recently at Bliss on his own time and burned the crap out of his shoulder and neck area that is still peeling today.
The problem today is we have very few leaders willing to take the chance or take an ass chewing for exercising good leadership. Its almost like higher wants to crush best leadership practices down to the lowest level.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 16 at 2021 3:34 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:34:00 -0400

When the Commander says so, so long as it doesn't violate any senior Commanders policies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2021 3:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 15:37:59 -0400

It's ultimately commander's discretion on their policy about deblousing. If your commander has a policy that allows it, then it's allowed. If they have a policy that doesn't allow it, it's not. If there is no policy for either or - then you make a decision as a NCO and if the 1SG comes by and says no, then you put the tops back on.

This happened to me in Iraq - our second deployment. S2/S3 we were packing up connexes. It was freaking hot. So when the guys asked about removing tops I said sure. There wasn't anything that I was aware that said we couldn't. Then our CSM walks by, asks me why they don't have tops on. I told him why. He said "who authorized that?" I said I made a decision. He told me to tell everyone to put their tops back on that he didn't like it. So we did. It was stupid but...yeah.

Usually there should be some kind of policy for heat indexes on uniform levels. Have you talked to your unit medics? BN or BDE Surgeon? I'd go there and see what they say especially if there's no policy. I know when I was at Ft Riley there was heat cateogries sent out every day on email and the uniform status for it.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jun 16 at 2021 4:26 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:26:14 -0400

Usually, there are medical alert or heat advisories stating once the heat index reaches XXX degrees, you can work in cycles or "deblouse". If I were you, I check with the Medical Services group, Safety Office, or review local policies concerning weather issues. Something should be in writing concerning heat advisories.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 16 at 2021 4:42 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:42:34 -0400

The heat bulb, usually maintained by medics is briefed to the commander who I turn shortens the work/brake ratio, along with forced hydration etc. removing the blouse is usually not associated with direct sunlight, rather dirty work regardless of temperature. It is not safe to run around in direct hi heat under the sun. A long time ago we made those mistakes. Wet bulb now kind of rules the work load mitigating heat related injuries/illness.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2021 7:54 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 19:54:13 -0400

It’s ultimately up to the commander whether soldiers can deblouse. If heat cat 3 per the dry bulb most places have unbutton of sleeves and unblousing of trousers to allow cooling, but protect from sun light. Also many schools have immersion tanks for putting the arms into for a quick decrease in body temp.

If the above aren’t being done by leadership it’s just sad. I’m sure once they have a couple heat casualties or someone dies from heat stroke suddenly things will change. Unfortunately that seems to be how things go.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2021 8:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:02:29 -0400

I have nothing to add except I'm at Riley and I second that it's hot as hell here. Its been over 100 degrees or close all week.

Response by CH (MAJ) William Beaver made Jun 16 at 2021 8:42 PM

CH (MAJ) William Beaver — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 20:42:56 -0400

Oh, for a second I thought you said “delouse.” My answer would be, after sleeping bays in austere environments.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Jun 16 at 2021 9:55 PM

LTC John Griscom — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 21:55:55 -0400

What happened to common sense?

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 16 at 2021 10:06 PM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 16 Jun 2021 22:06:57 -0400

Soldiers do not "decide" when to deblouse. That is up to command and the NCOes under that command. Operations is well aware of the heat index expected for the day and will issue orders appropriately when heat reaches cat 3, cat 4 and above, as well as what remedies and modifications that are to be taken at that time.

Usually the way it runs is a detail is under the supervision of an NCO who decides blouse on or off. Examples being sterilizing poop barrels, filling sandbags, digging entrenchments. A lot of times this is over ridden by officers, some crusty NCOes and some seriously out of touch upper echelon officers.

I generally fell back on the thing of making the call for my detail, detachment, section etc., when it came down to it and I felt the situation warranted it. If an NCO or Officer appointed over me had an issue with my order to my troops they could take it up with me. Some did and I always defended my decision and only got flack a few times over it. I stand by that call. As NCOes it is our job to lead, not stand by.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Jun 17 at 2021 8:59 AM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:59:32 -0400

It was like 78 here the other day, and I saw a National Guard LMTV driving around town. The driver had no blouse on. Poor little guy must have been hot.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jun 17 at 2021 9:27 AM

SGT Robert Wager — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:27:29 -0400

I lived by the rule of “It’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission.” If my soldiers wanted to take off their blouse because they were hot that was fine with me. I would take the arse chewing for them.

My job was to run interference for them from those “crusty” old 1SGs. If it was reasonably safe and was just a comfort call I would side with my soldiers.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jun 17 at 2021 9:37 AM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 09:37:02 -0400

At Bragg, back in the day, there was a wet bulb globe temperature and the post regulations dictated how you modified your uniform, rest periods, etc. at certain levels of temperature. I do not remember the levels, but at the highest your boots unbloused, no shirt other than tee shirt. I think that I remember that Range Control put out the WBGT. There may have been something about salt tablets in that regulation, also.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 17 at 2021 10:22 AM

1LT William Clardy — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:22:11 -0400

First off, those Crusty Grumpy First Sergeants probably remember that unblousing means untucking your trousers from your boots. Once upon a time, the women's service uniform may have included a blouse, butthe current version of AR 670-1 doesn't list blouses as a component of any uniform.
Second, as 1SG Dennis Hicks pointed out, taking jackets off is the desert sun is not a great idea. It's slightly counterintuitive, but keeping that torso-sized shade billowing around your upper body (A) protects the skin on your arms from dirt and UV damage (sunburn), and (B) puts some helpful fractions of an inch of air between your body and all that solar heating.
Before you sneer too loudly at the notion of jacket on and sleeves down, stop and ask yourself: why is traditional Arab clothing, worn far from the disapproving gaze of any sergeant or officer, long-sleeved and billowy?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2021 10:55 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:55:04 -0400

Yikes. As a former UAS PL I can attest to the lack of shade on the flight line. Unfortunately structures, tents, and trees don't work great near runways. The simple, though somewhat questionable answer, is for platoon leadership to take a little risk and let the soldiers de-blouse for a bit when the LT or WO is the ranking person. I'm decently versed in safety regs and I don't think there is one directly supporting de-blousing in any condition. If someone finds it I want to know too. I'm big on making life better for soldiers using regs to back me up. It's hard to argue with both regs and "this will make soldiers lives better."

However I found this article which might help you make a reasoned argument:

https://safety.army.mil/MEDIA/Risk-Management-Magazine/ArtMID/7428/ArticleID/6922/Plan-for-the-Heat

From another article here:
https://phc.amedd.army.mil/topics/discond/hipss/Pages/Heat-Related-Illness-Prevention.aspx

"Leaders: use risk management guidelines when planning for training in the heat"

And that is the correct Army answer short of a regulation.

Also I suggest that you encourage anyone that is giving guidance on how soldiers should be dressed while working in the heat to go help the crew chief from fueling to launch or ask them to help with the runway emplacement particularly pounding stakes for the arresting gear. The risk of sunburn is higher when de-bloused so I suggest de-blousing while out of the sun, such as in hot tent, then re-blousing when going into the sun with cuffs unbuttoned and the top partially unzipped.

Plan for the Heat

function printDiv(divName) { var printContents = document.getElementById(divName).innerHTML; var originalContents = document.body.innerHTML; document.body.innerHTML = printContents; window.print(); document.body.innerHTML = originalContents; } Plan for the Heat COL. ERIC OLINSCommand SurgeonU.S. Army Combat Readiness CenterFort Rucker, Alabama With spring already here and summer fast approaching, leaders and Soldiers should be considering...

Response by SPC Cathy Goessman made Jun 17 at 2021 3:03 PM

SPC Cathy Goessman — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:03:56 -0400

Taking your top off just means you have the sun hitting your skin to heat it up. Leaving the top on and just loosening the cuffs is better. I always didn’t remove my top along with everyone else because of how easily I got sunburned. It really does not help. I’ve lived in the desert most of my adult life. Get the clothes loosened up to get some air through and you’ll be fine.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2021 5:13 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 17:13:25 -0400

It's generally better to cover the skin.

Having said that, make the decision and own it, SFC. You may get a small heat round, but I bet you can handle it

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2021 3:16 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 03:16:13 -0400

I would say once we reach heatcat temperature zones to authorize deblousing of the boots and unbuttoning of the sleeves to allow for air flow but to keep the actual blouse/coat on to protect from the sun. Additionally if you're on an outside work detail in such temperatures the boonie should be authorized to increase sun protection around the neck and face area. If we can do it overseas in the name of safety, we can do it at home, but garrison is a different beast of "hurr durr I'm in charge", sometimes.

Everything is dependent on your leadership though, it doesn't hurt to suggest it if your argument is solid. I've seen quite a few reasonable decisions by SNCO's and officers if given a good reason as to why.

Another thing to consider for outdoor work details is someone should be monitoring rotations. You can't expect someone to work consistently in 100F+ without diminishing returns and the increased opportunity for injury.

Reg or not, I would say a lot of this is in the territory of taking the appropriate actions in the absence of orders for the safety and continued productivity of your Soldiers.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jun 18 at 2021 11:50 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Fri, 18 Jun 2021 11:50:35 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member It depends on where you are and what local SOPs say but un-blousing usually start at heat cat 4 or 5. I've only ever seen this anywhere except at TRADOC bases. Most places don't allow taking tops off because you can get sun burns. One of the things that I am rather proud of during my career is never having one of my Soldiers get a heat injury. If you strictly enforce hydration, you will never have a heat injury. Did many a mission in Iraq with 130+ heat and never had a heat injury. I had missions where I finished the day totally soaked with sweat, to include the canvas on my boots and having sweat pools in my boots. Force hydration is your friend in the heat.

Response by PVT Linda Gerald lisbin made Jul 7 at 2021 12:33 AM

PVT Linda Gerald lisbin — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 00:33:47 -0400

I am all for tops being rolled up and tied at the waist, but keep I on remember your example teaches others, and sweat means you should dose yourself with cold H2O, so wear a dark color top!

Response by PO2 John Harker made Jul 7 at 2021 4:33 PM

PO2 John Harker — Wed, 07 Jul 2021 16:33:09 -0400

Personally I don't burn easily. However, that changed in 110+ degree heat at Fort Sill. I burnt both lower arms almost purple wearing just a T shirt and unblosed trousers while on a four day exercise. I grew up on a farm in Oklahoma and had had neck and shoulder sunburns before with one other time of light burns on my lower arms.
As the maintenance and repair supervisor I didn't force my guys to keep their blouses on, but they did have to keep t shirts on *and* be aware of sunburns even after hours. I've spent many summers here working outdoors on the job, the farm, etc. Everyone who has worked for me has had the common sense to avoid a sunburn. I'm often the darkest skinned Caucasian in the group and I usually get burnt the most because I don't use sunscreen.
In the sun, you get a choice: sunscreen or cover up. Inside the ship (yes I was Navy and yes I did time at Fort Sill), just keep it decent unless there's hot machinery or chemicals to look out for.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made Jul 8 at 2021 6:32 AM

SPC Andrew Murray — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 06:32:32 -0400

Quick tip, I used to burn more than anyone with my pale Scottish skin, requiring spf 100 to avoid it, however since stopping the consumption of high pufa seed oils, canola oil, soybean oil, vegetable oils, etc, I've never burned again. I've known quite a few others in the same boat. So a change in diet might be helpful for working in the sun. Rule of thumb is any fat or oils that existed in the food supply before 1900 are safe for example, olive, avacado, coconut, even lard, tallow, and suet.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Jul 8 at 2021 12:54 PM

1SG James Matthews — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:54:54 -0400

Even in the 70's at Bragg I allowed the removal of shirts as long as they wore a servicable T if the heat index was over 100. Never got called on it cept once by a new 2nd. Lt.--ask him if he wanted to work along side of the men as a leader -- he declined.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 1:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:45:39 -0400

If there are any 68S (preventative medicine), they can use their wet bulb to determine the heat category. If it’s over 90 degrees and the Soldiers are working hard, they are supposed to work for 10 minutes and then rest for 50 minutes. You can look up heat categories to see the work rest cycle. When it’s hot outside there should be a work rest cycle established. When I was a PFC we used to downgrade to our tan T-shirts in the motorpool, until our SGM gave us an ass chewing for it one day. She explained that no where in the heat category charts did it say you can take off your jacket. I’ve been sunburned to the point where I regretted taking off my jacket. I’ll never willingly work outside with it off again. I’m always telling Soldiers to put their jackets back on. Hopefully their leadership is being mindful of heat casualty symptoms too.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Jul 15 at 2021 9:04 PM

1SG Ernest Stull — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 21:04:12 -0400

When you say so as the senior NCO in charge as the temperature raises then you should limit the amount of time out in the direct heat and ensure you have lots of cool water available for them.

Response by SGT George Smith made Jul 30 at 2021 11:14 PM

SGT George Smith — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:14:01 -0400

61-6t. Only time we unclouded was one time I’m basic. High temp and high humidity at Ft Leonard Wood. Never any other time or location.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 31 at 2021 10:20 AM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Sat, 31 Jul 2021 10:20:41 -0400

I had a brigade XO tell me once that regulations are a guide not written in stone. As such a leader can adopt and overcome as situation requires. Unfortunately many people in command positions are not leaders and have not figured this out. They go strictly by the book because that is all they understand.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Aug 1 at 2021 10:24 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 10:24:21 -0400

I see it as discretion by the Senior enlisted involved (the person who is responsible for the health of Soldiers in a working environment). So i would make the call for uniform modification at the work site and based off of work being accomplished at said work site, That is not to say that going anywhere outside of said work area that the modified dress of Soldiers is okay. Uniform Modification In that work area only.
I would rather have a butt chewing for being over protective than for a Soldier receiving a Heat injury. JMTC

Response by SFC William Linnell made Aug 1 at 2021 11:41 AM

SFC William Linnell — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 11:41:04 -0400

https://adminpubs.tradoc.army.mil/regulations/TR350-29.pdf

TR350-29.pdf

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Aug 1 at 2021 3:37 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:37:28 -0400

When I was in, every morning for PT.
Who is IIC, (idiot in charge) who never comes out of his A/C office?

Response by SGT James Sherman made Aug 1 at 2021 9:06 PM

SGT James Sherman — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 21:06:00 -0400

I can't remember the words exactly, but when the WBGT Index (Wet Bulb Globe Thermometer) reached a Category 3, all training was reduced to a maximum of 15 minutes per hour. All training was suspended when the index reached Category 4. Many NCO Drill Sgts took little mercy on the unacclimated basic training recruit. Heat injuries are preventable. I was a Preventive Medicine Specialist at Ft Dix NJ. We were responsible for measuring the WBGT Index and getting the word out if we were headed into temperatures that posed an unacceptable risk to trainees and trainers.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Aug 1 at 2021 10:59 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Sun, 01 Aug 2021 22:59:05 -0400

As a former 68W We know about the Temp , Heat index being to different things most of the time.
With each there is the work / rest time's with each category. But we all know that is all most never done, Nor is there any shaded area's or sources of water to rehydrate. Yes every one is issued a canteen. But only the people in the barrack's can get to them at work for the most part.
Command should plan ahead and have Cold drink's and cold pack's ahead of time. As part of the daily work risk assessment.
As well as uniform of the day.
I have been in units that the ASS HAT's site in the office all day, Except to come out and give people shit for not getting every thing done with very high temp's and very cold temps while not being allowed to dress and rest appropriately.
Honestly I have had my ass ripped for not screwing my people in the heat.
Who says you can not work in the Motor pool in your P.T. uniform's when it is 105 with the heat index, And give them break's in side the motor pool building. ( With a 30min on then 15 min off )
Heat stroke can come back to bite some one.
I say ass long ass the troops are in a uniform that gives them the protection they need for the work they are doing. Leave them the Hell alone.

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Aug 2 at 2021 7:23 PM

SPC Brian Bay — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 19:23:21 -0400

First, I'd question why there isn't some form of camo netting or shelter set up to perform duties on the aircraft. I had friends who worked on the UAV's when they first started it and no hats were allowed on the flight line.

While arguments can be made in favor of clothing covering as much skin as possible, keep in mind that Afghani man-jammies are far lighter in weight than the Army uniform.

Have some folks fall out and get carried off to the local ER as great casualties. Formally request accomodations along with a few ideas so you aren't just complaining about a problem, you are trying to be part of the solution. When soldiers start dropping like flies, it's tends to look unfavorably on the commanders OER.

When the entire UAV platoon is on profile for light duty, someone's going to answer to higher for it.

Response by SGT Robert Farrell made Aug 2 at 2021 10:32 PM

SGT Robert Farrell — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 22:32:21 -0400

UNIFORM OF THE DAY! DO NOT MODIFY ANYTHING! NOW MAGGOTS-DROP AN GIVE ME 20!

Response by SFC Ritchie Inns made Aug 3 at 2021 7:40 PM

SFC Ritchie Inns — Tue, 03 Aug 2021 19:40:55 -0400

Well, first off, to answer the LT about Arab garb, theirs is made of a lighter fabric than anything we’ve ever had in our inventory. There is no comparison.
As for the Senior Infantry NCO in me, once upon a time, a long time ago, we had the “pickle outfits” with ball caps, then the Battle Dress Uniform(BDU) and we could always wear our sleeves rolled up. We had certain months of the year designated for sleeves up or down. I believe around 1987, someone had a wild hair up his or her ass to make sleeves down 24/7 to simulate “field conditions”…whatever. We had the chocolate chip fatigues during Desert Storm(hot), we had the ACU fatigues in Afghanistan, (still hot) and damn uncomfortable. We should have never went away from buttons on a combat uniform to Velcro ( are you freaking kidding me?) but I digress. Sounds to me we just need the Backbone of the Army to make command decisions to take care of troops, and deal with the consequences later. We had an old saying in the Army once; “If you’re not getting your ass chewed at least once a day, then you’re not doing your job”. What are they going to do, fire you? Bend your dog tags? Stamp your meal card “no dessert”? OMG!

Response by SP5 John Burleson made Aug 4 at 2021 11:58 AM

SP5 John Burleson — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 11:58:53 -0400

I was an army doggie right before the regulators decided to authorize the wheel. I remember a discussion regarding shirts on a hot sunny summer day and the answer I got involved the danger of severe sunburns with which, being a red-haired viking, I am familiar. We did have a rather cool staff sgt who had no problem with yelling "last one to the NCO club pays for the first round!" The command motivated us to an astronomical level and completely negted the shirts on vs. the shirts off argument. Besides, by the time we got to the NCO club we were pretty stinky so we found that., comfy as no
-shirts was, wearing shirts kept the flies away from our beer.

Response by MSgt Mike P. made Aug 4 at 2021 6:59 PM

MSgt Mike P. — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 18:59:35 -0400

Heatstress Index info is out there. Recommended to NCO'S to push for this.

Response by 1SG Verle Wright made Aug 5 at 2021 9:46 AM

1SG Verle Wright — Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:46:12 -0400

UAS platoon, hmmmm, not like they're breaking track or digging foxhole. If they are performing maintenance or doing other, physically stressful activities, have the workers unblouse and NCOIC remain in uniform, otherwise stay well hydrated and deal with it. Retired, crusty, no longer grumpy 1SG here who dealt with higher temps in full gear while getting shot at/ blown up in Iraq. Learning to deal with it in peace time, helps you deal with it in combat.

Response by SGT Bobby Ewing made Aug 5 at 2021 9:46 AM

SGT Bobby Ewing — Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:46:39 -0400

It was always my understanding that this was a local decision. I know when I was at Ft. Leonardwood, they used the "wet bulb." It was figured somehow with the heat, the humidity, and whatever factors the command saw fit to throw in. Commanders would dictate what to roll up, what to roll down, and what to take off.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Aug 7 at 2021 12:02 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Sat, 07 Aug 2021 12:02:27 -0400

Well SFC you are right about the toxic leadership in today’s Military Way to many leaders today only look after themselves and careers starting with Miley the most worthless General there is
Leadership need to stand up for their troops I believe if a soldier falls out from heat exhaustion which I would never like to see things would change even if a soldier said they had had it Wink!
My Army would look after their troops
This new army does not have a backbone

Response by SP5 Derick Johnsohne made Aug 8 at 2021 3:48 PM

SP5 Derick Johnsohne — Sun, 08 Aug 2021 15:48:44 -0400

let me mention that in the n.african desert heat, locals put on layers for protection . they only wear light clothing to imitate westerners . touaregs and other nomads did not remove clothing while travelling . it is a matter of insulating and ventilation . wearing od, synthetic fabric, in the tx sun was an ordeal in my days . i have no idea how current uniforms fared in the mideast .

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Aug 8 at 2021 6:42 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 08 Aug 2021 18:42:44 -0400

In the barracks or physical detail and PT then it is probably ok. Otherwise the proper wearing of the uniform is always mandatory, unless the command structure informs you otherwise.

Response by PO2 Randall Gould made Sep 13 at 2021 3:52 AM

PO2 Randall Gould — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 03:52:43 -0400

It is time to put "wokeness" soundly to sleep

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2021 4:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 16:33:39 -0400

I would love to clear this one up for you. My PMOS is preventive med specialist and my SMOS is medic. I have been a medic for 12 years so this topic is dear to me.

Bottom line up front: According to ATP 4-25.12, ch.2-86, "When the situation requires and the tactical situation permits, commanders and leaders must modify the wear of the uniform to ensure that soldiers' skin is covered while in sun and uniforms are worn loose at neck, wrists, and lower legs (unblouse pants based on the heat category).
This is my favorite reference for field related preventive med because it applies to all levels of command. Others have discussed the importance of keeping the skin covered while in the SUN so I won't harp on that, but it is acceptable from a preventive med perspective to remove tops when NOT in the direct sun, i.e. while taking breaks, which can be as often as 10 minutes every 30 minutes of work (at the highest heat cat). The exception to unblousing or removing tops is when there is a moderate to severe arthropod risk.
At the end of the day, unblousing and removing uniforms remains the lowest level of risk management and medical personnel are much more concerned about the higher line items such as work-rest cycle and hydration. I highly suggest reading up on this section of the ATP I referenced for heat injury mitigation policy recommendations as it is a current priority of the Army, due to recent and past heat-related deaths.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2021 7:24 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:24:15 -0400

I literally take my blouse off the second I get to work and put it back on if I leave to go to lunch. If you don’t know my name, you don’t need to

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Sep 15 at 2021 6:33 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Wed, 15 Sep 2021 18:33:17 -0400

Refer to 1SG Hicks' comment. He pretty much said it. And yes, I've taken the heat for my soldiers' welfare on a number of occasions.

Response by CPL Ronald Stabczynski made Sep 15 at 2021 7:06 PM

CPL Ronald Stabczynski — Wed, 15 Sep 2021 19:06:35 -0400

In the mid-'80's. I was assigned to an Engineering BDE HQ Company, we wore the Woodland BDU's. Those were sort of baggy-looking. The BDE CSM set down a mandate BDE-wide.... all NCO's, CPL, and above were to wear Split Shined Boots, Bloused Pants, and a Pistol Belt around the waist. I always thought that he had made that Baggy-Ugly Uniform look much better.

Response by Sgt Michael Valgos made Sep 16 at 2021 4:55 AM

Sgt Michael Valgos — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 04:55:24 -0400

What is the problem with it I had female Marines working for me and they all took off their utility jackets when it was warm We all did Okinawa and southern California both get very warm So if you expect your Marines to do their job then it is not a problem My Marines meant everything to me I wanted them to perform and they did and I was fully behind what they wanted to do We were very near our group HQ but we were working Marines not poster Marines

Response by SGM Tr Williams made Sep 16 at 2021 6:31 PM

SGM Tr Williams — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:31:33 -0400

Unblousing to me is the removal of blousing bands to allow circulation through the trousers, not removing the jacket of the uniform to expose sleeves, etc. Commanders and Senior NCOs need to use common sense on what is best to prevent heat casualties (they are responsible for heat casualties as well.) I spent 7 years as a 1SG at Ft Irwin and troops wore jackets with unbloused boots in select heat categories. I never had a soldier with as a heat casualty. Common sense again works.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Sep 17 at 2021 11:12 PM

SGT Chester Beedle — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 23:12:39 -0400

There needs to be some medical guidance on this because there is so much misinformation on both sides. Keeping the top on means you have an extra layer of insulation.
However removing it means you are now directly exposed to the sun. Not only does that increase the risk of sunburn (and skin cancer), that sun is heating up exposed skin. It's the reason that ACUs (it's the uniform, not the color ON the uniform, so whether it's in the UCP, or the OCP, it's still on an ACU), and BDUs and DBDUs before were so loose fitting. It allowed air to flow while still protecting the skin from direct sunlight.
If it's hot and humid you're sweat isn't evaporating anyway.
Unbloused pants should be the minimum though.
There is a reason that those in hot dry areas have been wearing long, loose robe like clothing for a couple thousand years.

Response by SGT Robert Martin made Sep 18 at 2021 3:33 AM

SGT Robert Martin — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 03:33:58 -0400

We always went by the wet ball. Once it hit the black level if you are working outside. We would go to the brown t-shirt.

Response by SN Jeffrey White made Sep 18 at 2021 10:29 AM

SN Jeffrey White — Sat, 18 Sep 2021 10:29:27 -0400

You answered your own question. It's up to the base commander and enforced by the NCO.
Your wife must do what they tell her .. this is the army , not the cub scouts . Don't go about looking for ways to not obey orders ,

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Sep 21 at 2021 6:08 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:08:45 -0400

The Army keeps playing games with the publications numbering system so I won't even try to cite pubs numbers, but the Army has publications on Prevention of Heat Injuries and on operations in various climates.

Also Ft Riley has AMEDD people who are supposed to know about things like heat and cold.

Even on posts where the sanity of upper leaders might be dubious, it is very rare not to find post policies on such matters. Two minutes scanning through the post Index of Policy Letters (or whatever your post calls it this week) should locate a reference.

What you find might not be exactly what you want to be told, but has a very good chance of making more sense that what you say you are being told.

Response by SSG Adrian Walker made Nov 29 at 2021 1:58 PM

SSG Adrian Walker — Mon, 29 Nov 2021 13:58:42 -0500

Be careful of anything you post, there's nothing you can write that prying eyes won't see and use against you anymore, no such thing as freedom of speech, the government and V.A. will use everything against you. I know that for a fact.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2021 1:46 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 13:46:40 -0500

When it makes sense.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Dec 19 at 2021 2:38 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 14:38:55 -0500

At Sill, in 68 students could when the heat index was abouve120! In Nam never too many creepy crawly could get up higher than you would want! Just saying

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Dec 19 at 2021 3:37 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Sun, 19 Dec 2021 15:37:17 -0500

Check 1SG Hicks' answer. It pretty much hits it on the head.

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Dec 21 at 2021 6:24 PM

SSG Ken Potts — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:24:58 -0500

As a former medic, I can tell you that the heat index and wet bulb mean nothing to the COC. You keep your blouse on, and remain in uniform.

Response by SSG Richard Callahan made Dec 22 at 2021 5:13 PM

SSG Richard Callahan — Wed, 22 Dec 2021 17:13:22 -0500

It sounds like things at Ft Riley haven't improved much and a lot of NCOs junior officers don't realize where they are. In 1976 I was assigned to 82nd Med and we were called out twice to evacuate ROTC cadets who were suffer with heat stroke. They were being required to work outside in an extremely high wet bulb temperature without proper breaks and hydration. One case might be a learning experience but 2 cases is incompetence. The only upside was both candidates survived and were medically retired as 1st Lt. Then told to move someplace with a very cool environment.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Dec 23 at 2021 12:32 AM

PO1 Todd McMillin — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 00:32:40 -0500

In the Navy stationed at Sin Diego NASNI and Norfolk/Damneck during my 20 years of service. As long as you were on base and at the command or in the BEQ; it was fine to "Deblouse" from your uniform when you work in excessive heat conditions over 80F and also when we were deployed aboard ship during non-Flight hours and in port again with Duty Officer's permission based on Heat Warnings in the Gulf. So it's not a surprise that people are doing it. They just need to be professional and make sure they're in regulations underneath their MTU or whatever they're called now. No Hot Pink Bras and Panties is simple enough to understand.

Ironically, it was always the Junior Officers or Flag Officers who are the biggest rule breakers of not properly wearing their MTUs or Flight Suit when "Debloused" and then have the gall to criticize the Enlisted for doing it while working on the aircraft or support equipment. Seriously, the double standard are completely bullshit. Either follow the standards and do as you do or STFU!

Response by LTC Brett Weeks made Dec 25 at 2021 8:30 AM

LTC Brett Weeks — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:30:44 -0500

I believe in the concepts of common sense, commander’s call, and senior commanders finding something more important to worry about. However, those may be outmoded concepts today.

Response by 1SG Danny Vorreyer made Dec 25 at 2021 1:35 PM

1SG Danny Vorreyer — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 13:35:15 -0500

The regulation for the uniform is all driven by the local Commanders. The next question for uniform item do you have in CTA-50 that you could wear in hot weather. Well they made temperate uniforms. The Division CSM usually sets the tone. Example for uniform items unless they are sold at CS Store. Rolling of the sleeves was hard for people to execute. It was only one roll above the elbow. Most tried to roll half way the arm. That also was driven my MOPP level. The Wet Bulb index does describe the level of caution to take and that is driven by time acclimation. Train like you fight. For brand new Soldiers or Trainees not use to heat and fitness level. We took off tops and used water station to cool down. Still had heat casualties. I would ask the Command for guidance on the topic. If you don't you will continue to get chewed.

Response by SSG John Jennett made Dec 26 at 2021 12:52 PM

SSG John Jennett — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 12:52:55 -0500

When I first enlisted, it was the call of who ever was in charge of the detail. The NCOs kept good track of the heat categories and the rest, work rotation required for each category. Once the war kicked off those decisions were no longer in the purview of the junior NCOs in charge of the details. In a woodland environment where shelter from the sun is easily accessible our leaders routinely allowed us to downgrade to T-shirts. In direct sunlight environments keeping the skin covered is a necessity and sun shelters for rest periods were also a necessity. This is easily accomplished in a FOB or main base AO, but when out at an SP or on patrol, sorry guys ya gotta keep that skin covered and drink a lot of water.

Response by COL George Antochy made Dec 26 at 2021 10:29 PM

COL George Antochy — Sun, 26 Dec 2021 22:29:51 -0500

For what it is worth. I served in Fort Bliss during one of the hottest summers, 1980, and I served in Kuwait (06-07). Whether to, deblouse, remove uniform shirt or not is a local command decision, by either the senior NCO or Officer at the immediate site. Obviously this is only in the immediate work environment, not the general area. It is done for the welfare of the Soldiers. In Kuwait sleeves remain unrolled and shirts could be removed while on specific work details. At Fort Bliss, during the hottest periods, the duty day was split so that Soldiers were off during the high heat periods. There are wet bulb guides that specify duty and rest periods during various indexes, but it should be a local command determination to ensure Soldier health.

Response by SSG Matthew Wilson made Dec 27 at 2021 10:57 AM

SSG Matthew Wilson — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 10:57:35 -0500

It is just never….lol

Response by SFC Mike Wilkins made Dec 27 at 2021 3:58 PM

SFC Mike Wilkins — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:58:39 -0500

There are several reasons to strip your blouse. One is PT while in uniform as we did while I was in. Two depending on the work detail you are in. Three if you are participating in a fight and finally playing with kids and you don’t want to possibly mess up your uniform.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2021 4:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:59:57 -0500

Units need to follow the Heat Categories in Training as well as in Garrison environments. If it says to unblouse using the Wet Bulb index then that's what units should do. Commanders (as advised by their 1SGs and CSMs) can set the unit dress code for the environment in my opinion, regardless of any Heat Category in my opinion.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Dec 27 at 2021 5:26 PM

SSG Gregg Mourizen — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 17:26:38 -0500

When you are in Heat cat 3 and 4, the uniform adjustment protocols are usually published with it.
I was stationed at Ft Riley for 5 years and Ft Bliss for almost 4 years (normally working outside in the desert. I was also deployed to Saudi Arabia (average daily temps of 130 F, Heat Cat 4 & 5 almost every day I was there.
I learned the importance of keeping your top on in the heat, in the direct sunlight, in the high winds and sad storms.
First thing everyone wants to do is take their shirts off and drink ice water.
Drinking ice cold water is probably one of the worst things you can do to yourself in that kind of environment. Throws your body's cooling systems out of whack. However, that is not the subject of this thread.
That shirt and cover might be the only shade your body gets from the sun, and the little insulation, is well worth it. Like someone else here has already stated, it protects you from the sunlight, absorbs the sweat, allowing some cooling action from the wind, and provides a small amount of insulation..
The protocols for the higher heat indexes revolve around adjusting the work schedule in the environment, un-blousing your pants and loosening you sleeves to increase airflow, and thus more cooling. I don't remember if it allows for unbuttoning/unzipping the front of your shirt, however the idea is to keep the sun off of you.
Now if you are under some kind of shade, I would say it is up to your leadership to decide.

Here's the "but"...
I was running around doing battle drills in the desert in MOPP4, full battle rattle, with mask, and there were many soldiers who were out there doing it for real in the same climate. That little bit of heat in garrison just doesn't compare.

Here are a couple of reference points for you.
https://www.hprc-online.org/physical-fitness/environmental-extremes/military-heat-flag-conditions-explained
Remember heat index is not the same as what you see on the thermometer
https://www.weather.gov/ama/heatindex
Tho I am finding it hard to find current information right now for uniform modifications:

Follow clothing recommendations
Heat category 1-2: no restrictions
Heat category 3: Unblouse trouser legs, unbuckle web belt
Heat category 4-5:
Unblouse trouser legs, unbuckle web belt
Remove t-shirt from under BDU top or remove BDU top down to T-shirt
(depends whether biting insects are present)
Remove helmets unless there are specific safety reasons to keep them
on (e.g.: range).
MOPP 4: Add 10蚌 to WBGT index for easy work, and 20?F to WBGT index
for moderate to hard work.
https://safety.ucanr.edu/files/2900.pdf

I hope this helps

Military heat flag conditions explained

Heat flag conditions in the military describe the risk of suffering heat illness (heat cramps, heat exhaustion, heat injury, and heat stroke) during work or exercise outside in the heat. They’re currently based on “wet-bulb globe temperature” (WBGT), which is a calculation of ambient temperature, humidity, sunlight exposure, and wind speed. WBGT is different from heat index, which only takes into account temperature and humidity. The U.S....

Response by SSG Michael Schneider made Dec 28 at 2021 7:26 AM

SSG Michael Schneider — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 07:26:46 -0500

As a 17 year old private in 1965 there were numerious times and, not just during PT that we were ordered to remove our 'fatigue' shirts; caps and unblouse our trousers. The Army of the 1960's, through the 1980's was in a constant state of flux but, the one constant was troop welfare!

Response by CPT Tyler Brickles made Dec 29 at 2021 11:09 PM

CPT Tyler Brickles — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 23:09:21 -0500

Preventive Medicine Officer here.

Your looking for:
TB MED 507: HEAT STRESS CONTROL AND HEAT CASUALTY MANAGEMENT
-Ch 3, Fig. 3-1, Uniform Modification
-Appen. D, D-5, e. Clothing Modification
OR
ATP 4-12.25 UNIT FIELD SANITATION TEAMS
-Ch 7: Heat, 7-35
Heat category 4 and 5 —
 Unblouse trouser legs and unbuckle web belt.
 Remove T-shirt from under uniform top or remove uniform top down to T-shirt (depends whether biting insects are present).

It’s always a hard recommendation since the social norm is that we remain in full uniform regardless. As long as you can justify it as best interest of the Soldiers, the back end isn’t typically to harsh. Deblouse, retain the PC, and apply sunscreen. If possible toss them a tailgate tent, a cooler for ice and water, and your golden. Cooler can also be heat mitigation as a forearm immersion tank.

Hope this helps

Response by SGT Wayne Grindstaff made Dec 30 at 2021 7:14 PM

SGT Wayne Grindstaff — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 19:14:29 -0500

This one really gets me, they were probably told that by someone spending the day in A/C. Sometime in 1968 during a rough firefight some Major in a LOH called down that the men should have their fatigue shirts on. Most troops were either shirtless, or with just a flack jacket on, mind you this was in paddies with maybe 6-8" of water and it was hot. Whats more is most knowledgeable guys would rather be shot or get shrapnel without fabric being added to the wound. Well my Co who had real balls told that Major, either land that bird and tell my men that, or go back to the rear. Our unit earned a PUC during that time and the CO became the Division Generals Adjutant because of how good he was. RIP Capt. Haywood.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2021 11:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 11:44:18 -0500

The best option of you're going to take your top off is to use sunscreen regularly. The instructions are usually on the back of the bottle. When I was at fort hood we usually kept our top on during normal operations. When we were doing intensive manual labor we would "drop top". Honestly i would say use the wet bulb and check the work/ rest cycle chart. I'd you're in heat category 4 or 5 it's probably a good idea to adjust uniform based off of that. Also, you don't have to drop top always unbuttoning your sleeves and untucking pants are an alternative.

Response by Sgt Jim Mullins made Jan 1 at 2022 12:45 PM

Sgt Jim Mullins — Sat, 01 Jan 2022 12:45:49 -0500

Never

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jan 2 at 2022 3:29 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 15:29:52 -0500

Do you know how fucking hot it got in summer in Iraq? 138 degrees. And we did that in full battle rattle and full IBAS. It can get to 120 degrees at NTC. How are you going to hold up in those environments if you can't do it in Kansas?

You train as you fight, which means you learn how to manage your body in extreme heat and cold. You keep your sleeves down so that you limit your exposure to chemical and biological attacks. You protect yourself form exposure to the sun and skin cancer by leaving sleeves down and gloving up. You keep your gloves on because your weapon will heat up in the direct sunlight and it is possible to burn yourself on the hot metal.

I have zero exposure to the sun in Iraq which is why i never tanned.

Response by TSgt John Brody made Jan 12 at 2022 2:46 PM

TSgt John Brody — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:46:25 -0500

I did a JRTC rotation many years ago in a desert environment and our Battalion cooks were getting cooked alive in the chow tent (which of course was olive drab canvas).

I was in the chow line and overheard the cooks saying how it must be over 120F inside the mess tent. Being a curious weatherman, I got my trusty Kestrel and went back to the chow tent and convinced the NCOIC to let me hang it above the serving line just above head level. Then I hung out until our LTC commander came into the tent.

I shanghaied him and pointed out how crazy hot it was in there (actually a measured 130F!!!) and commented how it seemed appropriate for the cooks to be allowed to take their tops off while in the tent. He agreed and ordered it to be done as he didn't want the cooks passing out (heat casualties).
Needless to say, I made friends in the chow section that day!

Moral of the story: always take care of the people that make and serve you food! (oh, and the supply sergeants also...never get on their bad side....unless you're dealing with CIS....they're punks).

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jan 31 at 2022 9:46 AM

SGT Juan Robledo — Mon, 31 Jan 2022 09:46:49 -0500

I hope in their rooms, but sometimes when we had soldiers doing trash detail, cutting the grass it was allowed by our First Sgt, or whom ever was in charge of that detail

Response by CPO John Moore made Mar 2 at 2022 2:58 AM

CPO John Moore — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 02:58:24 -0500

deblouse: to me means taking the pant legs from your boots) I can see that much in hot weather as you can get air up the legs of your pants. ( remember when I was in boot camp when the red flag was flying we didn't have any drill outside. The military is the greatest on a heat program when it comes to men/women.

Response by SFC Douglas Entwistle made Mar 2 at 2022 10:03 PM

SFC Douglas Entwistle — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 22:03:38 -0500

Heat Cat is issued by J/G3 in training guidance and adjusted as required. Safety regs cover heat category, but ultimately it is up to the Commander to make the call. Typically at BN level, the 3 will advise. Any CSM worth his salt will have his input into the risk assessment. Any CDR can make a modification call based on an ongoing risk assessment. Risk assessments are specific to the work/ training being done. Work on a flight line, o0n blacktop, should have a different set of risks and mitigations than troops in field uniform training CTT in a shaded area.

Response by SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson made Mar 4 at 2022 2:57 PM

SP5 Geoffrey Vannerson — Fri, 04 Mar 2022 14:57:10 -0500

I've been to both Ft. Bliss (Blister) for basic, as well as Ft Riley. The one thing I can say is what one of my former comanding officers told me; "Son you are destroying Government Property." Unless heat stroke signs are beginning to show themselves the best of the two evils is to remain bloused until you can rotate into cooler conditions. Sun and heat on exposed skin can render you incapacitated for a period of time. Deblouse in the shade to expidite the cooliing process.

Response by SSG Curtis Vaughn made Mar 5 at 2022 2:38 PM

SSG Curtis Vaughn — Sat, 05 Mar 2022 14:38:43 -0500

I think folks are reading to much into this question. Wanting to take off your top while working is for comfort, as a old Signal Soldier when we recovered our equipment in the Motor pool we took our tops off to keep the cammo netting from catching on clothing. Some times it's easier to do inventory of equipment in just t-shirt, who said they were outside. Come on guys make a decision that's your job.

Response by SGT Christopher Sigafoos made Mar 8 at 2022 10:17 PM

SGT Christopher Sigafoos — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 22:17:11 -0500

The 1SG and the 1LT are absolutely correct. My wife is a prior service 68W and from her I learned that the medical advice for flightline workers is to keep your tops on. The direct glare from the sun can cause nasty sunburns (at Joint Base Lewis-McChord she saw some horrific second degree burns on troops that disregarded the uniform order). Further, although the tarmac on flight lines are blacktop, they still reflect massive amounts of UV radiation that can, in rare cases, cause cancer. The army does have guidelines for a work/rest cycle depending on heat category: TRADOC Regulation 350-29. On page 15 there's a chart that outlines the recommended work/rest cycle and water consumption, sorted by work category (Easy, Moderate, and Hard), and separated by Heat Category; based on "average sized, heat acclimated Soldier" wearing hot weather ACU's. The NCOIC of the duty should follow this regulation, if possible.

Understand that circumstances may dictate that need to work continuously during high tempo operations. If that's the case, page 16 has a recommended continuous work water consumption chart that is also sorted by heat category.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Mar 9 at 2022 4:47 AM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 09 Mar 2022 04:47:50 -0500

Knowing a bit about how regs work there is no "Army policy" but rather a regulation that leaves it up to the local commander to decide (which is usually overruled by crusty grumpy 1SG's for no reason at all).
And?

Response by Cpl Alex Moore made Mar 9 at 2022 6:38 PM

Cpl Alex Moore — Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:38:17 -0500

When I served, I was a tank mechanic, and deblousing was only allowed in the Spring and Summer on the tank ramp, when working. I was at 29 Palms where it was routinely 100+ in the shade for that time frame. It made sense and was reasonable. Most of us worked in coveralls anyway but, when in Cammies, it made sense. The rule was, though, if you weren't working blouse on and that was heavily enforced.

Response by SSG Matt Olson made Mar 9 at 2022 9:59 PM

SSG Matt Olson — Wed, 09 Mar 2022 21:59:35 -0500

Having been to ft hood TX heat indexes are constantly supervise, any leader can normally make the call depending on situation

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2022 9:17 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:17:13 -0400

Back in 1971 our PT uniform was unbloused boots, and tee shirts. No running shoes or trunks. I was in the Army for two years before going into the Navy.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Mar 19 at 2022 4:29 PM

Jerry Rivas — Sat, 19 Mar 2022 16:29:09 -0400

Working outdoors, groundskeeping......Other sweaty times.

Response by SP5 Carl Hollander made Apr 24 at 2022 10:51 PM

SP5 Carl Hollander — Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:51:32 -0400

increase water intake and learn how to sweat

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made Apr 30 at 2022 8:22 AM

1LT Peter Duston — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:22:13 -0400

Uniform of the Day is the call of the 1SG or CSM and that includes safety calls re: heat! Mission First but People Always!! Hoo-ah!

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2022 12:41 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:41:02 -0400

As a CPL who did Basic and AIT at Bliss I can tell you that a 3rd degree sunburn can happen in MINUTES. Was on a weekend at the pool and as for being time off we got stupid and forgot where we were at. 40 Minutes outside in the sun with NO SUNSCREEN on and it being 115 in the shade. There was 3 now ONE! My two Battle buddies got axed for destruction of Government property and AR 15, sent home when they could travel. I spent the week breaking blisters on my back hauling metal Blinds from one Barracks to another all week. all i did was my upper back, the other 2 done got burnt from foot to neck. This my friends was in 1978 and the ONLY time we got to deblouse was at barracks or PT. Water and more water was the call. NEVER WALK we RAN every where we went.

Response by PO1 RIchard Petty made May 1 at 2022 1:25 AM

PO1 RIchard Petty — Sun, 01 May 2022 01:25:06 -0400

I know from my years experience usually the MMCPO (Maintenance Master Chief Petty Officer) would allow to half mast our coveralls while on the flight line but as long as your t-shirt was in regulations. But on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier it was full on gear from cranial to float coat the only time any of the gear came off was going to chow to end of shift, but if was lucky we usually could take float coats off during a long lull in fight ops. Now night check never took the float off unless off deck.

Response by SSG Stewart Ritchey made May 1 at 2022 5:24 PM

SSG Stewart Ritchey — Sun, 01 May 2022 17:24:16 -0400

Should be a local NCO-level decision. No logical reason to go any higher.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 1 at 2022 8:33 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sun, 01 May 2022 20:33:17 -0400

Whenever the senior man present says so. Of course he/she must have the guts to defend his decision.

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made May 1 at 2022 9:04 PM

1SG Joseph Dartey — Sun, 01 May 2022 21:04:29 -0400

I know I am late in responding to this, but in my earlier Army days I was the unit safety NCO. Check out TB Med 507 ( Heat Stress Control and Heat Casualty Management.) (12 Apr 2020).

Also, your unit safety NCO/Officer should have all this information.

Hopes this helps.

Response by TSgt Ken Vandevoort made May 1 at 2022 11:13 PM

TSgt Ken Vandevoort — Sun, 01 May 2022 23:13:49 -0400

Makes you wonder how the Union troops with wool uniforms did it in the deep South during the Civil War.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2022 8:20 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 May 2022 08:20:58 -0400

I read most of the comments so far and I do see that Army regulations were mentioned a couple of times. One comment even came directly from a captain in the Army medical corps.

As for Marine Air Wing policy: we're normally either wearing flight suits, (for crew members), or coveralls for maintainers. To my memory, policy was pretty relaxed in favor of not overheating. So it was pretty much left up to the individual preference as long as we pulled our uniforms back on when leaving the hangar area and/or flight line. Similar policy for cammo utilities....in the air wing.

But as others have noted, keeping properly hydrated is CRITICAL.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made May 2 at 2022 10:09 AM

SGT Ruben Lozada — Mon, 02 May 2022 10:09:18 -0400

SFC, this is an excellent question. And to My understanding the AR 670-1 rules are always changing every now in then if not every year. I can still recall being in two branches Navy and Army. When I used to be active duty Navy Our E6 allowed Us to deblouse our uniform. I was assigned to Deck Department where We get dirty on a daily basis. We wore coveralls and were allowed to where the top half around Our waist and if We had to go away from Our work station that We would have to fix Our coveralls and zip it back up. This was based upon the the discretion on Our Department Head on overseen by Our Department Manager. This was somewhat similar to when I was active duty Army and Reserves. When ever We were on a working party or an assigned detail and it was hot that day, We were allowed to deblouse. Our CO or Commander would initially make that call and carried out by a 1SG and overseen by a PLT SGT. I always carried a trial size bottle of sunblock in case We were allowed to deblouse. I think it boils down to whether the Commander wants to initiate it or not. But, as I stated earlier AR 670-1 is always changing.

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made May 2 at 2022 12:28 PM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Mon, 02 May 2022 12:28:16 -0400

I'm a Marine so I don't care what soldiers do, but in the Corps you are permitted to remove your blouse to perform strenuous activity, including working out at the gym. That said, our definition of de-blousing refers to the trousers being untucked from the boot bands, which is not permitted.

Response by SGT Bobby Ewing made May 3 at 2022 12:42 PM

SGT Bobby Ewing — Tue, 03 May 2022 12:42:29 -0400

The Heat Bulb/ Heat index, is a combination of temps, humidity, and wind speed. It is usually tested and determined by a Sr. Medical Officer, then disseminated to all units on base. From there Commanders and staff can make determinations as to any alterations in training and/or uniform requirements. It is up to unit Commanders to make the call. Those Crusty Grumpy 1Sg's do not want to answer to command about heat injuries!

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made May 3 at 2022 10:12 PM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Tue, 03 May 2022 22:12:37 -0400

I am an ex Brigade Surgeon and have spent much time in the field (was also prior enlisted ). The number one priority of a good leader is to protect the health of your troops as in so doing you maintain combat efficiency. Sometimes it takes some interpretation of the regulations in their application. I remember being out in the field on an excercise over a hot holiday weekend and we didn’t have enough ice to keep drinking water cool and food maintained properly. I enquired and found out we got a certain ration for each person and the only way to increase the ration was if the Division Surgeon would authorize the increase. I got HQ clerk to type up a memo increasing the ration and since I was the highest ranking physician in the Division on duty over a holiday weekend, I signed it as acting Division Surgeon and we got the extra ice and the troops were made a little safer and more comfortable in the field. A leader needs to be wise and look at what is best for his command’s health, comfort and combat readiness. The goal isn’t to make pretty soldiers but effective ones. So having your outer shirt on, off or unbuttoned is a function of health and welfare what ever some nonsensical superior may say . There is always someone above him or her that has some sense

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2022 10:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 May 2022 22:46:13 -0400

I've always been told that the commander sets the uniform, and as an NCO, "I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders." Sunblock is on every single packing list for my unit and I always keep plenty in my locker that was provided to me free of charge by our medics or the TMC.

Our uniforms are plastic and cotton, they get hot. Use your common sense and look out for your soldiers. Most people that would be mad weren't invited to the gun show anyways.

Response by 1SG Michael Brooks made May 5 at 2022 11:47 AM

1SG Michael Brooks — Thu, 05 May 2022 11:47:50 -0400

I am truly amazed at this question. Sunscreen is widely available for personal protection. If soldiers are working, and sweating in hot sun, take the "Blouse" off. The object of work is to complete a task. Not be on parade. If you are making the decision to make the soldiers keep the garment on, then fortify your decision by working along side of them, for a four hour period. Let them know you are doing it so you can make a "Best" decision. If you are making this call from an office... then you are wrong already. Take a look at a couple of civilian construction sites around your area. What are the guys that work in the sun all day wearing ? In WWII the Australians, Brits, Germans, and New Zealand all had uniform options with short pants. Why?? because they were perfectly fine for garrison work in the heat. Mission First - Troops Always. Take care of soldiers....or they will just go away......

Response by MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow made May 5 at 2022 8:33 PM

MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow — Thu, 05 May 2022 20:33:33 -0400

That is what T-shirts are made for. Your blouse needs to be handy because more than likely you don't have your rank on the t-shirt or cover.

Response by SGT Drew Clifton made May 6 at 2022 2:34 AM

SGT Drew Clifton — Fri, 06 May 2022 02:34:36 -0400

There really is no right answer here. Anywhere it's hot a good chain of command will allow soldiers to deblouse but require they apply sun screen in direct sunlightsunlight. This should be OK in the motor pool or on any outdoor labor duty with temperatures above 80 degrees. Think about it like this. If it were 0 degrees outside would you have your soldiers outside working all day and not allow them to wear cold weather gear? Of course you wouldn't. The heat can be just as dangerous and some people are less able to deal with it than others so you can't say "I've got my top on and I'm fine". That being said sometimes we get stuck with assholes in charge of us and we just have to suck it up and do what we have to but don't ever be afraid to speak up and at least make your opinion known.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2022 11:40 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 May 2022 11:40:46 -0400

I am not in the Army I am in the USMC. We pride ourselves on being difficult even when it is illogical, but we have a system in place to drop blouses when the flag conditions hit red to prevent heat cases. We are stupid, but when the facts are so blatant we do listen. Sweat can only cool you if the wind can reach your skin so when the wbgt hits a certain level that makes it dangerous we deblouse and order the use of sunblock as necessary. Common sense even Marines can use it on occasion.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made May 6 at 2022 5:19 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Fri, 06 May 2022 17:19:06 -0400

When I was in, most installations had a policy (heat or humidity index?) where soldiers' leaders were required to ensure their wellbeing by having them remove their (then fatique) shirt. I also recall where soldiers were to untuck their fatique shirt and unblouxe their boots.
On the opposite extrme (winter) we were on an FTX and it was as cold as it ever gets in Virginia. When readying to convoy back to our home base - a 1-1/2 hour drive in M-151-A2 Jeeps with NO side curtains - the CO ordered the PLT LDRS to have everyone remove cold weather gear and only wear field jackets! Our Platoon was last in line and my squad had "tail-end Charlie."
I had everyone in my squad KEEP their cold weather gear on, and cover their legs with the wool blankets. As a result, my squad was the only one who didn't have at least three people with cold weather injuries and some with hypothermia. I drove my Jeep and was amazed that those driving with only field jackets (oh, and longjohns) didn't suffer hypothermia and wreck. Back at our home installation, it was decided to let everyone go to the barracks to warm-up and take hot showers, and then perfrom the normal motor stables, weapons cleaning, etc. My squad did it as soon as we got back. I got a moderate butt chewing but quelled it by invocking my secondary MOS (Medic) stating that it was a dangerous, and probably unlawful order as evidenced by the frostbite and hypothermia incidents.
It's an NCO's job to put his subordinates health and safety above most stupid ideas or unnecessary risks, especially in a peacetime, or NON-combat environment.

Response by SGT Jimmy Russo made May 7 at 2022 5:30 PM

SGT Jimmy Russo — Sat, 07 May 2022 17:30:56 -0400

There's a huge difference in " Dry Heat " an "Wet / Humid Heat ". 90 degrees in the Desert vs 90 degrees in the Swamps is not comparable, the high humidity makes the skin temp feel much hotter .
Being a 6th generation Floridian I suppose I'm use to the heat . Having spent time in the desert I would routinely have to check the temp as I would just start breaking out in a sweat while near everyone else was covered in it , So it was necessary for me to Monitor my Troops closely . Sweat serves to cool your body off, in the desert being so dry sweat quickly evaporates not allowing you to cool down properly, So hence ppl in that type environment wear loose long sleeves shirts / tops an long pants to hold this sweat close to the skin an of course protection from the sun . I grew up before Sunblock / Sunscreen was a popular thing an was reserved for small infants . An of course military uniforms are a bit dark in color so they will hold Heat vs a lighter shade of clothing. In the humidity your sweat is very slow to evaporate it just sticks to your skin as the air around you is laden in moisture an the last thing you want is to have sweat drenched clothing on as it just makes you hotter .
Working in Construction I've seen a lot of guys pass out from Heat Exhaustion not being A custom to the high temp. The majority of them being from Nothren areas . An yes sad to say we use to have betting pools on what day what guy would fall out on the job from the heat . My 2nd Wife Family is from Massachusetts an them fools will be out in 45 degree temp in bathing suits washing cars , pressure washing their decks & boats . When it gets to 60 degrees I'm looking for my blankie

Response by PO2 Nick Burke made May 13 at 2022 6:39 PM

PO2 Nick Burke — Fri, 13 May 2022 18:39:29 -0400

Wait until service members drop from heat exhaustion.
Then tell the medical investors what is happening.
Just be honest.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Jun 11 at 2022 2:37 PM

SPC Vonnie Jones — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 14:37:06 -0400

Ok speaking from a medical perspective but not a doctor just more common sense. An actually I learned this from the army. Best thing for heat exsuste and heat stroke is, loose fitting clothing, shade and hydration. Not only do you follow those guidelines when a person is symptomatic you use those guidelines before you run into problems. Believe it or not you do need to keep portions of your body cover because of potential of severe sun burn and cancer. Remember sun burn and skin cancer is a real problem for fair and dark skin, but mainly for fair skin. I know taking that jacket off seems to be a solution but the solution is really something I am sue the army won't go for and that is getting out of the heat. I was in Alabama and Texas and we did have work and water brakes. It is up to the commander and the medics to advocate for the safety and wellness of the unit

Response by SPC EOTrees Myles made Jun 12 at 2022 10:26 PM

SPC EOTrees Myles — Sun, 12 Jun 2022 22:26:24 -0400

I was stationed in Fort Riley many, many moons ago but I can still remember that heat. We were never allowed to take off our uniform top. I never worked outside but can remember walking to eat or running an errand. I could not wait to get off duty to shower and wash my uniform and shake those spit shined boots. I think soldiers that work outside should be able to at least roll up their sleeves, at least give them that tiny weight off of them. I hope that this not taking off uniform tops or rolling up sleeves should be looked at and considered as, soldiers would perform much, much better and their behaviors would improve for the better.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Jun 13 at 2022 2:26 AM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Mon, 13 Jun 2022 02:26:19 -0400

Check with the medical units. In some places like fort riley, they do have a policy in place that if the temp and humidity jumps over a certain temp and humidity that the company commander usually does and can call for a welfare check. Medical units can also authorize them and over ride the commanders. I have seen this happen. They do have protocols

Response by SFC Jerald Bottcher made Jun 13 at 2022 11:30 PM

SFC Jerald Bottcher — Mon, 13 Jun 2022 23:30:56 -0400

While I was is it was up to the 1SG or senior NCO in charge, and unless overruled by the officers in charge it was OK to take of shirts when needed. Regulations allow for this, but common sense should prevail

Response by SGT Timothy Posemato made Jun 16 at 2022 4:04 PM

SGT Timothy Posemato — Thu, 16 Jun 2022 16:04:34 -0400

I was an infantry squad leader at Ft. Hood 75-79, our CO made his decision on the heat index, dry bulb or wet bulb? I don't remember which, but when it hit a certain level he required for shirts to be removed. Don't know if it was in the army regs, but it was in his regs.

Response by Sgt Jake Middlebrook made Jun 18 at 2022 6:45 PM

Sgt Jake Middlebrook — Sat, 18 Jun 2022 18:45:32 -0400

I have worked both ways in long sleeved fatigues and in a tee shirt. The only difference I noticed was a few more of the troops recently from a colder area passed out in long sleeve fatigues. My Dad was from Texas and served a 6 year hitch at Ft Bliss. He always wore long sleeves and a hat outside and only ever had sun damage on the backs of his hands. so there are compensations for long sleeves. If it's really bad and you've got plenty of water in the flight line truck dump a cup or two of water down the back of your collar and soak your tee shirt. You will be cooler and if anyone ask just suggest you have sweated thru.

Response by SSG Michael Davis made Jun 22 at 2022 1:09 PM

SSG Michael Davis — Wed, 22 Jun 2022 13:09:33 -0400

Check AR 670-1.

I haven't read it in a white but health and safety issues (heat) are involved. I think alternate uniform options are in there. I was not allowed to wear a uniform much of the time when I was on duty and MI and SF jobs (which wasn't me) have latitude as well. Other jobs probably but I'm not going to talk out of my blow hole.

Response by SSG Jerry Pannell made Jul 13 at 2022 10:06 AM

SSG Jerry Pannell — Wed, 13 Jul 2022 10:06:11 -0400

As a retired SSG if my squad is working out doors an temperature is high with no shade my squad will remove their top and if its a problem I will take the heat.

Response by SSgt William Blanshan made Jul 13 at 2022 3:46 PM

SSgt William Blanshan — Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:46:50 -0400

Keep your coat on, son. You never know what situation will occur where you have to beat feet for cover. Being uncomfortable is a part of life, so get used to it. And you NEVER deblouse your trousers. That's a very bad idea. Trouser bloucing was adapted for a reason. You don't want some venomous creepycrawley climbing up your pants to feats on your 'nards, do you?

Response by SFC Michael Barnett made Jul 14 at 2022 2:24 PM

SFC Michael Barnett — Thu, 14 Jul 2022 14:24:06 -0400

When told to do so.

Response by SFC Carl Blount made Jul 15 at 2022 3:50 PM

SFC Carl Blount — Fri, 15 Jul 2022 15:50:26 -0400

Trying to remember from my first days in the military but I don't think there is any regulation that covers this subject . It is something that is left up to the commander when troops are on details. There is or was something that restricted troops being outside during certain temperatures but I can't recall what that temp. was or is. I really don't think that it is allowable under regulation to remove the top portion of your uniform when outside, only at commanders discretion.
If you find a regulation that covers this subject please post it on this site for all to see. Thanks.

Response by SPC John Estabrook made Aug 10 at 2022 4:34 PM

SPC John Estabrook — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 16:34:34 -0400

I guess one way is to go ahead and do it until told not to and then say you won't do it anymore. A person would go crazy trying to comply with every regulation and no one could possibly know all of them.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Aug 10 at 2022 6:04 PM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 18:04:53 -0400

As officer or Civilian Supervisor I never let regulations get in the way of my personnel's welfare. If it was a problem with them. I do know that there are some guidelines/regulations as far as working civilians in the intemperate weather. It was at one point back in the 70's put out by Medical Personnel. Had to pull during a reserve tour in Camp McCoy back in the middle seventies. Do not know if they were ever taken out of the guidelines or not hopefully some of the recent Medical can help with that.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Aug 11 at 2022 5:22 AM

MSgt Bruce Hutchinson — Thu, 11 Aug 2022 05:22:22 -0400

I can’t speak of Army regulations but as a broke down old “crusty” old flight line Master Sergeant with very close ties to my Irish ancestors, I am somewhat of an expert on getting sunburned. Your blouse with sleeves down will provide a considerable amount of protection from the desert sun

Response by 2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2022 12:24 AM

2ndLt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 00:24:26 -0400

https://adminpubs.tradoc.army.mil/regulations/TR350-29.pdf

So I'm old school, I too like to see the regs. This is the TRADOC doctrine specifically for the mitigation of heat and cold casualties.

"(4) Ensure Soldiers' clothing and equipment is present and serviceable prior to the training
day; recommend modifications of the uniform to senior leadership, based on local conditions."

As a senior leader, prevention of heat or cold injuries falls on the NCOs, who make the recommendations to the commander or his representative. At the company level modification of the uniform can be taken into account for local conditions.
However, understand that while long sleeves are potentially uncomfortable, they also provide protection from the sun in those same environments. So that should also be taken into consideration.

Unblousing boots, uncuffing the wrists, wear of sun covers (Boonie hats), and removal of IOTV or other gear during training, or work cycle should be considered. Adequate shade, work-rest cycles, and water intake, all of these things are covered in the policy. As well as the method for determining the wet-bulb which is used to create the "Heat Category" (Green, Amber, Red, Black)

As for other modifications to AR 670-1, https://www.army.mil/article/175866/army_issues_new_guidance_on_rolling_cuffing_sleeves
is an older article that points to current regulations for sleeve rolling. Also determined at the company level, particularly in the desert bases of the southern United States.

Common sense should be exercised in all things Army.

TR350-29.pdf

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2022 3:02 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 03:02:08 -0400

……….why not make a decision and own it? If Joe is working outside for an extended amount of time and it’s hot, the common sense radar would go off in my head to downgrade. Some things don’t need to be deeply investigated. Just my .02 cents.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Aug 19 at 2022 6:51 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 06:51:51 -0400

In Vietnam it was 107 degrees one day. Locals always wore loose long sleeve tops/shirts to keep the sun off their skin...

Response by 1SG Marcus Whitfield made Aug 19 at 2022 11:14 AM

1SG Marcus Whitfield — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 11:14:20 -0400

We were reserve drill Sargents back in the late 80’s doing our 2 weeks at Ft. Jackson South Carolina, it was summer time early August cat 4 temp in the 90’s and humidity was about 90 as well, when it got that hot we were allowed to un- blouse your boots, but they still had to be rolled up outside the boot to allow for air flow we were not allowed to take off our shirt s we were also on a modified work schedule 20 minutes work then 20 minutes break drinking canteen water.

Response by MSgt Mason Manner made Aug 20 at 2022 1:49 PM

MSgt Mason Manner — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 13:49:05 -0400

As an old dinosaur the term blouse refers to the field uniform shirt but aside from that the reason for the blousing your trousers is to keep ticks and other insects from getting into your boots or up your trousers legs In addition on the IF/EF DCU's had a very wide collar (to protect your neck)this was shortened because it bunch of morons didn't like the way it looked I thanked those uniform designers every day for that collar and my boonie hat for keeping me from getting sun poisoning and aging 10 years in 4 months. BY the way too many idiots complained about the collar and they shortened it because they didn't like the way it looked..The other suggestion is DO NOT DRINK SPORTS/ENERGY DRINKS THEY ARE POISON (especially in the heat)DRINK WARM WATER (more easily absorbed)and keep your boonie hat and blouse w/collar UP

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2022 1:51 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:51:16 -0400

That decision you be placed on the CDR’s shoulders. Working under such challenging conditions, Ft Bliss gets hella hot being the CDR I would definitely allow my Soldiers to remove their blouses being sure to also observe and enforce the “work/rest” formula. Soldiers must always be first. Ensuring you place your Soldiers first promotes higher motivation, respect towards their leadership, your Soldiers looking out for their leadership when the leadership is not around. Having a Combat Medic background, 82nd ABN, AIRBORNE ALL THE WAY!! Making sure small actions are taken when Soldiers work outside for extended periods of time (an hour or more) will go a long way to ensuring your Soldiers stay healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally speaking. In a hot environment ensure these actions are observed/enforced:
1. Full camelbak part of daily uniform, constantly drinking water, avoiding dehydration
2. Issue MREs, replenishing nutrients lost, helping to avoid dehydration
3. Remove blouse
4. Remove PC, but keep in mind that the PC offers protection from sun’s rays
5. Enforce Sun block usage.
6. Ensure Work/Rest formula is enforced
7. Allow Soldiers to rest in shaded area, no shade take camo netting to AO
8. Ensure PPE is worn, sunglasses, gloves, Dog Tags (especially if they have a red tag, allergies)
9. Do what it takes to keep moral high, provide chilled Gatorade, call the “Gut Truck” to your AO, ice cream is always a crowd pleaser
10. Consider daily early release even if Mission is under time constraints
CDRs (I was a CDR) should order and enforce measures that protect our Soldiers even if the 1SG disagrees.
SOLDIERS FIRST MISSION ALWAYS!!

Response by SPC Robert Hendrickson made Sep 18 at 2022 4:36 PM

SPC Robert Hendrickson — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:36:55 -0400

De blouse ? For the females , on the job/training ... never .. unless in the barracks in their assigned rooms for the night and showers, etc.
For the men likewise ,,
For both genders in any case ,, at least have the upper undergarments ,, in emergencies/emergency only .. like t-shirts ,, etc ..
Yes'm ,, yes'r it's mighty hot/warm in the late spring ,, all summer ,, and into most of the fall/autumn .. yep ,, we like comfort but we should also be concerned/conscious of our surroundings ,, as such .. there should be regulations and rules for such .. think about that ,, everyone .. seriously !!

Response by COL Thomas McGrath made Sep 18 at 2022 10:55 PM

COL Thomas McGrath — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:55:26 -0400

Heat primarily

Response by 1SG Timothy Lincoln made Sep 19 at 2022 7:22 PM

1SG Timothy Lincoln — Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:22:41 -0400

During work details where the conditions such as Wetbulb and common sense should dictate un-blousing and top removals. Its all about dicipline and suck factor. I was a 1SG also and pickett pounding, digging fighting positions, thousands of sand bags, concertina wire, crew serve emplacements, camo, and all the other priorities of work takes dicipline people. It never ends. Garrison is one thing. Tactical situations another. So if troops dont care, the leaders are failing. The worst thing that a leader should see is troops who dont care. The defeated soldier is a leadership issue and should be corrected ASAP using UCMJ for the leader. Get off your lazy asses NCOs. Do your jobs and take care of your most valuable asset. The NCO provides Purpose, Direction and Motivation. Stop worring about dumb stuff and train. "Winning isn't everything. Winning is the only thing" stop bitching and be all you can be in our beloved Army. And I promise you that most troops who follow these simple rules will be successful. God bless our Army!!

Response by SSG James Boulden made Sep 22 at 2022 5:33 PM

SSG James Boulden — Thu, 22 Sep 2022 17:33:36 -0400

AS Top said, common sense should rule, but all my time in the Sinai desert was blouse on, sleeves down to protect from UV. Local Bedouins always wore traditional garb. (LONG/loose) Temps were regularly 110 degrees plus during the day. Overdrink system in place on water. No heat injuries during my two deployments over there.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2022 2:18 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 02:18:51 -0400

Serving in Hawaii for 3yrs in MI we always de-bloused whenever there was moderate work to be done. If they were moving 1 MI system no, but if they were moving 5-6 MI systems then yes. Conducting Mopo pmcs no, conducting a CoC inventory yes. Setting up MI systems inside a tent no, laying out a tent for inventories yes.

Really anything that would be a sustained physical activity for more than 10mins we de-bloused. Everyone was the same as well.

Response by SGT Katherine Iwatiw Menges made Oct 24 at 2022 6:02 PM

SGT Katherine Iwatiw Menges — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 18:02:39 -0400

Back in 1984 when I was stationed in Germany and working in the summer heat, we removed our tops, and when we finished our job, we put the tops back on. No one said a contrary word to us.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2022 1:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Oct 2022 01:18:29 -0400

One needs to remember that the higher humidity means sweating which is the bodys method of cooling itself just can't happen.

If you are out at Bliss or White Sands you are around 4,000-4,500 feet ASL unless you are up range at WSMR playing in the mountains.

As crazy as it may sound keeping your sleeves down will keep the body cooler when you are in the desert. If you want to stay cool shave the head and body hair. A cold washcloth on a bald head is instant AC for the body in desert heat. All you need are a few washcloths and a small cooler thats half ice and half water. Works wonders.

Response by SP5 Michael Lewis made Oct 28 at 2022 7:43 PM

SP5 Michael Lewis — Fri, 28 Oct 2022 19:43:34 -0400

When I was stationed in Hawaii at the 25th Infantry Division, we often removed our outer shirts due to the excessive heat. Back then there were no females in our unit so it really did not matter, but I still think if the heat is excessive and all of the soldiers maintain then it would be okay so you don't overheat. We were out in the field a lot and removed the outer shirt many times. In garrison, if we were on a detail where it took extreme work and it was hot, then it was up to the top NCO in charge.

Response by CPT Andy Kallinen made Feb 4 at 2023 5:00 PM

CPT Andy Kallinen — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 17:00:53 -0500

As a former Armor Co Cmdr, I allowed it in the tank park after field exercises when spending a couple days on PMCS. I figured the Army issued my troops sunscreen for a reason. But that was 20 yrs ago. My CPT peers of that day are now the Generals of today and after seeing how many political tools aspire for stars it's no wonder so many good ones stop at COL or LTC.

Response by Maj Gary Gault made Feb 4 at 2023 11:10 PM

Maj Gary Gault — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 23:10:53 -0500

Common sense should guide any commander and senior NCO as to when heat conditions would be dangerous to the health of their troops!

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Feb 8 at 2023 1:31 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 13:31:09 -0500

In the 80s and 90s we were allowed to "deblouse" for work details on post and fold our BDU sleeves up spring and summer on the BC's orders

I don't think you can roll up your sleeves with the current uniform (ACU?). And if that is so, that needs to be corrected pronto with the next uniform change.

Response by LTC Christopher Hills made Feb 8 at 2023 8:38 PM

LTC Christopher Hills — Wed, 08 Feb 2023 20:38:09 -0500

The long answer is it is never appropriate to remove your blouse for work details or not. HOWEVER, the commander (usually with guidance from his senior NCO) has the authority to “modify” the uniform and in fact it does happen. I have been all over the globe in jungles and deserts on deployments. I have served in bases in the south (bragg, benning, Polk, etc.) where the summer heat and humidity are almost as oppressive as my jungle deployments. Here is the facts that your question seems to imply you don’t understand. Sleeves on uniforms protect you both from the sun AND from the heat. Our body cools with the moisture trapped in the clothing. If you want to protect your troops, they should unblouse their boots, turn their sleeves up one or two turns and drink lots of fluid with reasonable breaks. I always tried to have a shady area (sometimes like in motor pools or on runways you have to create them yourself) to get a break from the sun as well. So, specific to your question, proper duty uniform is a full uniform including a hat to protect your head and blouse to protect your arms. Whether a commander or NCO modifies that or not neither makes them a good commander nor a bad one. Whether they monitor (or not) the work and the troops to protect them from heat stroke, etc. determines good leadership. And by the way, we worked 20 hours a day 7 days a week for 10 months in the desert during the gulf war. It was over 140 degrees on the tarmac when we got there in Aug. Short of the american south west, there is no place as dangerous for troops as that. Never took our blouses or hats off… it would literally bake your head and burn your skin in a couple hours.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Apr 3 at 2023 9:09 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:09:40 -0400

In Iraq, we'd have to wear those combat shirts for missions leaving ACU tops for the FOB. When the cash flew the black flag (was pretty much every damn day) we'd go in pt's... to do pmcs or platoon stuff. Ft Sam had a few days where the black was flown, if anyone was caught wearing the blouse outside, command would give us a counseling statement or worse, etc... as far as regulation goes, unit command should make that a priority. In my own thoughts, thel military today isn't tough at all. There's poor mentally unstable folks in the ranks who think getting yelled at is verbal abuse and emotionally abusive. If it's too hot and thy SM isn't preforming, water and hydrate... take precautions w water and tents, personal fans, etc...

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Apr 3 at 2023 10:59 AM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Mon, 03 Apr 2023 10:59:06 -0400

Hmm and here I thought they were talking about "boot blousing"
Back in the day

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Apr 4 at 2023 11:09 AM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Tue, 04 Apr 2023 11:09:53 -0400

When I was brigade surgeon with the 4th Inf. Division, I was known to assume responsibility to help the soldiers in the field to be safer and healthier. I would create a memo and figured if I overstepped I could apologize later as our soldiers' welfare was more important then someone's turf or corrupt interpretation of regulations.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Apr 11 at 2023 10:13 PM

SGT Joseph Dutton — Tue, 11 Apr 2023 22:13:56 -0400

Deblousing all depends on the work, weather conditions and work location i.e. company area and not in the general garrison area (public). It is the call of the commander & 1st SGT. We have even wore our summer PT uniform at times. The last thing a Commander needs is a heat related casualty on his watch.

Response by SFC Herbert Taitingfong made Apr 30 at 2023 7:02 PM

SFC Herbert Taitingfong — Sun, 30 Apr 2023 19:02:20 -0400

There is no Army regulation governing tops off, but you can have a unit policy at the Commanders discretion.

1. Do your CRM
a) Use the Work/Rest cycle IAW the current temperature.
b) Have plenty of Soldiers to help with the work/rest cycle.
c) Ensure water consumption.
d) Have several jugs of water on hand + ice sheets ready.
e) Maybe add tops off at Heat Cat 3, 4 or 5, depending on what kind of physical work is being
conducted outside.
f) Commanders will have to sign off on the CRM, He/She is ultimately responsible.

2. KEEP IN MIND: Heat Stroke (Hot dry skin is a good indicator besides falling out)
a) Keeping your tops on will keep your body cool by sweating and prevent sunburn.
b) Taking off your tops will likely cause sunburn and increase your sweat evaporation, due to direct
sun exposure on the skin, resulting in hot dry skin.
c) you can go from zero to heatstroke very quickly, if you're not using that work rest cycle.

Remember: Safety of your troops is priority #1 and the completion of your mission will be defined in your CRM.

Response by SGT Bill Christian made May 4 at 2023 6:27 PM

SGT Bill Christian — Thu, 04 May 2023 18:27:29 -0400

I was a 68w for a little over 18years before getting medically retired. The 1st thing is that you will actually cool down better with your top on and sleeves down the dampness of the sweat will help cool you with any type of breeze as well as help prevent you getting sunburned. The biggest problem i see in your question and statement is that there is no heat cat work cycle protocols in place. Every post has a heat cat work/rest cycle based on the heat category and relevant ambient temperature

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made May 5 at 2023 5:57 PM

Cpl Craig Howard — Fri, 05 May 2023 17:57:28 -0400

In the Marines, it was up to the ranking person present. No one wanted to look like a dirtbag in front of the CO or XO, but in the morning formation we would fall out to walk the hanger and flight line looking for loose debris and we were expected to be ready to go get dirty right then, so standards were lower. Any other formation, you formed up in a complete uniform that was ready for inspection. It makes me proud to think our brothers in the Army are keeping an eye on regs and their traditions and someone care to see it go on. I hate to see some of the changes in the last 30 years that seem to not be in the interest of the Corps, or the Military in general.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made May 5 at 2023 6:59 PM

SSG Bob Robertson — Fri, 05 May 2023 18:59:10 -0400

I would like to know the need of Rally Point. If your in the service, a website is not the place to ask questions. That is what your chain of command is for. ???????

Response by LtCol George Carlson made May 7 at 2023 7:22 PM

LtCol George Carlson — Sun, 07 May 2023 19:22:06 -0400

Lest anyone think this is a "new" problem ... There is a story of a destroyer captain the the southwest Pacific in WW2 who was reprimanded for letting his sailors work shirtless (done with time supervision the sunburn can be avoided, though not the long-term medical consequences of excessive sun exposure). Away from the squadron flagship he was tempted to allow it again. When the flag popped over the horizon unexpectedly, the semiphore signal he received was, "Why are your sailors working on weather decks half naked?" His response (which may well have briefly preceded his relief form command) was, "Because we make them wear trousers."

Response by SPC Richard Standal made May 7 at 2023 7:51 PM

SPC Richard Standal — Sun, 07 May 2023 19:51:11 -0400

Having spent time at Ft Bliss and a son born there its my opinion, there are no regs, that decision is up to the NCO in charge of the detail. I have however been in units where it was company policy that removing outerwear is not allowed, Ft Ord comes to mind. BUT of course that was back in the 50's when the Ist sgt was god and we all did his bidding.
RStandal

Response by MSgt J D McKee made May 8 at 2023 1:28 AM

MSgt J D McKee — Mon, 08 May 2023 01:28:41 -0400

I have report that if you survive for 20 years or whatever it is now, you too can look back on such utter foolish nonsense as having to worry about what someone thinks about your clothing, and be relieved you haven't had to fuck with such (since 1996 in my case), and yet the checks come in every month like clockwork. It was worth it to me.

Response by LTC George Morgan made May 8 at 2023 8:45 AM

LTC George Morgan — Mon, 08 May 2023 08:45:10 -0400

Understand the frustration. As an engineer officer with 27 years in and around construction it leaves me with the same opinion. Heat indexes and weather conditions makes a lot of difference. When you need practical results the book needs to go out the window. I served in RVN, Europe and several other diverse weather situation. Camping & working in Snow works differently than working in the tropical conditions on construction.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made May 17 at 2023 10:27 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 17 May 2023 22:27:56 -0400

US Army Engineers, when I commanded I ordered my company to remove their bouses and unblouse their leggins while exercises were undertaken on Lake Milford during pontoon bridge building. Engineers are prohibited from having the legs bloused while working over water. It seems the head goes down and the feet up if the trooper cannot swim. I had the DC roll up in his jeep during such a practice and begin to dress me down because my company was out of uniform. After reading him the Engineer Field Manual, he left the area without further comment. A win for the troops because that was my job, to have their backs.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made May 17 at 2023 10:30 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 17 May 2023 22:30:03 -0400

1st Engineers B Company Commander 1970-72

Response by LTC Ernest Edge made Jun 11 at 2023 6:49 PM

LTC Ernest Edge — Sun, 11 Jun 2023 18:49:53 -0400

It is at the discretion of the Commander. Though, it is definitely better under a blazing sun to keep covered. I am now suffering from skin cancer because overexposure.

Response by Col Dan Ketter made Aug 6 at 2023 9:56 PM

Col Dan Ketter — Sun, 06 Aug 2023 21:56:23 -0400

WOW...Thank goodness I was never in the ARMY. The AF never worried about such a small issue and allowed their troops. To dress as they saw fit

Response by SFC Herbert Taitingfong made Aug 27 at 2023 9:00 PM

SFC Herbert Taitingfong — Sun, 27 Aug 2023 21:00:40 -0400

Leadership should be aware of and follow the work rest cycle for working outside in the extreme heat. Taking your tops off will increase the likelihood of sunburn. Its up to the discretion of the commanders to modify uniforms further.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Aug 29 at 2023 11:26 PM

SFC William Linnell — Tue, 29 Aug 2023 23:26:30 -0400

TRADOC REG 350-29.
TRADOC REG 385-2, Para 1-5e.
These will get you in the right direction. TASC should be able to get the HEAT CAT pocket guides and an actual poster size one for posting. I had one of those 1SG's. At heat cat 5 at Hood, I was implementing the work to rest mode and providing water breaks making sure my NCO observe their Soldiers water intake. I posted the Heat Cat scale and instructions up in the orderly room. He tore it down and trashed it. Also a units medics are suppose to have the wet bulb out and monitoring it and reporting to the COC. Good luck. I was at Riley as well and same attitude. No common sense being practiced there.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2023 10:39 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:39:23 -0400

I didn't see any references to regulations, so although this is a response to something posted two years ago, I thought I'd give some references:
https://home.army.mil/wood/application/files/8416/2765/1794/Heat_Illness_Pocket_Guide.pdf
https://home.army.mil/greggadams/application/files/9215/3809/1890/Chap_20_-_Weather.pdf
https://home.army.mil/riley/application/files/4216/0374/5446/VictoryStandard-20201001.pdf

There are a variety of factors to consider (as mentioned by other respondents) bottom line, there is no single answer to determine if taking your blouse off is a good idea. Most guidance has to do with the level of activitiy, the heat category, and appropriate use of breaks along with water consumption. Modifying the uniform is much lower on the list of things to do.

Heat_Illness_Pocket_Guide.pdf

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Aug 31 at 2023 10:39 AM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 10:39:46 -0400

I apologize for this not being a direct answer to your question but the only logical position for working on days like you described, is a shorter work day, reduced work requirements, or a timeshift such as starting the work day later in the day to avoid the hottest direct sun hours. With the current and future personnel shortages in the Army due to stupid policies and decisions by senior leadership, there's likely to be more work and more hours coming, with no ability to shorten the hours or lessen the workload. Wondering if there's a reg to make your leadership use common sense is going to get you nowhere.

Response by SSG Douglas Shaffer made Aug 31 at 2023 9:03 PM

SSG Douglas Shaffer — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 21:03:37 -0400

As an NCO, I always took the heat for my decisions for the care of my solders. My job is their welfare not my pride. None of my troops ever suffered a heat injury or cold weather injury. when I was hot we untucked. I had a soldier fall through the ice I had him strip down and get into his sleeping bag, even when the command called for no sleeping bags for everyone when we got back to camp. Beat the heat and take the heat.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Sep 1 at 2023 10:30 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 22:30:28 -0400

When given permission on a work detail by the person in charge. Otherwise never.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Sep 4 at 2023 8:40 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Mon, 04 Sep 2023 20:40:54 -0400

dont know regs of this CRT and woke military but as an engineer, blouse was always out on water projects

Response by 1SG Jason Almond made Sep 6 at 2023 10:42 PM

1SG Jason Almond — Wed, 06 Sep 2023 22:42:38 -0400

I’m a retired 1SG and while I embrace the correct wear and maintenance of the uniform—I’ve never grasped why so many commanders / CSM’s / Leaders would sooner graffiti the Statue of Liberty than allow Joe to unblouse boots or take the jacket off.

Sunscreen exists. If you’re in the field (Ft Polk anyone?) and not engaged in rotations, you might very well be under trees / shade and it’s still CAT IV while you dig fighting positions or whatever else you would do prep for drills.

The hard part is that many times Joe knows you have the power to call it…….but it takes a heat casualty to get it done.

I’m not saying drop coats at 88°…….but when it’s 102— do something to show your people you care about them as much as you value uniform standards.

Response by CPL Brian Schoenrock made Sep 7 at 2023 1:34 PM

CPL Brian Schoenrock — Thu, 07 Sep 2023 13:34:55 -0400

When I was in it was always the senior soldier's call within the group and the entire group was uniform. All de-bloused or nobody and if somebody came along that didn't like it they took it up with the senior soldier present.

Response by SPC Paul Gooch made Sep 13 at 2023 8:17 PM

SPC Paul Gooch — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 20:17:21 -0400

I'm just a lowly specialist at what I do, I would recommend to soak your clothes with water when out in the heat and wear a wet rag over your head and neck/sunblock also works. Simple

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Sep 25 at 2023 3:38 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Mon, 25 Sep 2023 15:38:26 -0400

When allowed to do so by assignment

Response by SFC Greg Dunn made Oct 11 at 2023 7:58 PM

SFC Greg Dunn — Wed, 11 Oct 2023 19:58:04 -0400

Safety of your troops is the responsibility of the NCOs and Officers, common sense should prevail.

Response by SFC Aubrey Campbell made Oct 12 at 2023 11:59 AM

SFC Aubrey Campbell — Thu, 12 Oct 2023 11:59:14 -0400

There are exceptions. At Ft. Lee, VA during the summer (with heat index 5), we had soldiers unblouse. That was a command decision, not an NCO call.

Response by TSgt Lloyd Estes made Oct 14 at 2023 6:35 PM

TSgt Lloyd Estes — Sat, 14 Oct 2023 18:35:15 -0400

I am not an old crusty former 1st Sgt who was in the Army ,but I did spend 22 years in the Air Force and did supervise more than one detail during that time and it was always up to whomever was in charge of that detail to make that decision and even then the weather always had an affect in that decision making. (However I am an Army brat whose dad spent 23 years on active duty. )

Response by SP6 Edward Corona made Oct 16 at 2023 5:44 AM

SP6 Edward Corona — Mon, 16 Oct 2023 05:44:00 -0400

As a FNG infantry solder in Vietnam I was sent out to join up with my unit at an LZ. Those 2 days on the LZ I was filling sandbags all day. It was about 115 degrees and humid so I took my OD jungle shirt and t-shirt off and continued to fill sand bags. The next morning I had water blisters all over my back and was in a lot of pain. I asked Top if I could stay back in the rear for a couple of days and was told if I did that I would be given an Article-15 or I could put my back pack on and put my M-60 on my shoulder and move out with the rest of the guys and would not be given an Article-15. So I asked one of the guys to help me put on my 75-100 lb back pack and as soon as I put it on all the water blisters started popping and it felt like cold water on my back. Long story short 55 years later no matter how hot it is I leave my shirt on.

Response by Amn Joseph H. made Nov 9 at 2023 5:36 PM

Amn Joseph H. — Thu, 09 Nov 2023 17:36:57 -0500

Ever watch a battery of 105's in action? Usually circumstances win-out for safety, sunburns are destruction of GI property when i served, the other side is that group performance at it's best under pressure governs NCO supervision decision, usually the Sarge does what keeps the team safe performing it's task as well as that can be performed under all existing situations. It was certainly that way when I had the ugly duties for sure:) Unless in a parade their is no need to second guess a Sargents on the spot decision.

Response by 1SG Mark Colomb made Nov 23 at 2023 8:41 PM

1SG Mark Colomb — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 20:41:45 -0500

As a retired crusty old First Sergeant I always maintained that one does not have to practice to be miserable. While this was normally directed at cold weather (NO Soldier will wear the pile cap for instance), the same applies to hot climates. More important is the NCO’s responsibility to coach, teach, mentor his Soldiers to one day take his position. If the NCO does not explain to the Soldier, as 1SG Hicks points out, the why it is not a good idea to take of your shirt (or blouse, of jacket, whatever moniker one uses) then we have not only failed that Soldier, but all the Soldiers he or she may lead in the future.

Response by SFC Thomas Cairnes made Nov 23 at 2023 8:57 PM

SFC Thomas Cairnes — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 20:57:17 -0500

Normally it's Commanders discretion. Of course the CSM is going to have input.

Response by SPC Michael Miller made Nov 24 at 2023 9:02 AM

SPC Michael Miller — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 09:02:03 -0500

I understand but I think the commander needs to use common sense. For the mechanics the soldiers working in maintenance bays / hangars not in direct sun when it’s 115 should be able to take off the blouse. It use to be as an aircraft mechanic/ crew chief we were authorized to take the blouse off while doing maintenance in the hangar at Ft . Hood I don’t know about other units but the 1/7 was able to . That was 1989 / 1991. We kept our shirts on while on the flight line mostly unless we were working weekends , nights , holidays or anytime we thought we could get away with it.

Response by SGT Anthony Gates made Nov 28 at 2023 6:32 AM

SGT Anthony Gates — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:32:58 -0500

I was stationed in Missouri Fort Leonard wood I was the only Infantry soldier on the base at that time In the summer time the temperature would get 123°.
I worked on a live fire range.
We could not bring ammunition out.
Because the risk of a cook-off as far as D blousing at 11 o'clock AM We D blowhouse made every private take off the BDU top kept them in the shade and gave them plenty of water until 7 PM. Everything is at your discretion if you know it's wrong. Don't do it if you feel it's right? Then do it do what's right no matter what especially at the rank that you have?
You can make decisions make the right ones. Time has change everything since I've been out of military.
It's different now but?
You. Know? Right. From wrong? No matter what your rank is you have to Protect.
Your soldiers no matter what that is your obligation your job.

Response by SGT Anthony Gates made Nov 28 at 2023 6:40 AM

SGT Anthony Gates — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:40:12 -0500

You are responsible for you're soldiers safety first I don't care who disagrees you are responsible. They trust you. They believe in you you lead them they're welfare.
Is in your hands you have This Rank you did not get where you are today by being a fool you have made The Good decisions.
It's OK if you make a bad one every now and Then but we're talking about human lives you have to protect them they believe in you They will follow you to the end of the Earth You know what To Do do? What's right? What your heart tells you To Do?

Response by SGT Anthony Gates made Nov 28 at 2023 6:48 AM

SGT Anthony Gates — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 06:48:19 -0500

SGT GATES This is not a complicated situation don't make it harder than it is you know exactly what you have To Do do it.

Response by SGT Anthony Gates made Nov 28 at 2023 7:11 AM

SGT Anthony Gates — Tue, 28 Nov 2023 07:11:23 -0500

I have to remember I was discharged in 1992things are different very different. The rules and Regulations are Different now but you must remember Every stripe you get greater Grows your responsibility? As an old NCO they're Will come a time When you can't look for the US army to make a decision? You have to make it yourself and do what you feel is best don't ever be afraid of making the wrong decision your human

Response by MSgt Mike Griffith made Jan 2 at 2024 5:03 PM

MSgt Mike Griffith — Tue, 02 Jan 2024 17:03:43 -0500

Air Force 75 to 99.
We called it a shirt.
When we wore fatigues, we had a personal option to have the sleeves cut and hemmed above the elbow. With BDU's we rolled the sleeves up or down depending on if we were hot or cold.
We worked in t-shirts depending on the temperature.
Our leaders trusted us to dress appropriately.

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Jan 5 at 2024 11:28 AM

Cpl George Matousek — Fri, 05 Jan 2024 11:28:58 -0500

I believe it is up to the CO. Semper Fi

Response by CPL James Walker made Jan 15 at 2024 11:54 AM

CPL James Walker — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 11:54:02 -0500

You have to remember that the tee shirt acts like ac when the wind blows to help cool down the body.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jan 15 at 2024 5:45 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:45:10 -0500

When you're given the OK to do so

Response by SFC Bernard McMahon made Jan 21 at 2024 9:41 AM

SFC Bernard McMahon — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 09:41:04 -0500

When I was on active duty, we were informed if the heat index was going to be high. We were instructed on how much time soldiers were to out working in the heat before bring them into the shade and allowing them to hydrate. We were also instructed that while working, soldiers could if they wished remove their blouse. The blouse had to be worn when leaving the work area. In regards to rolling up the sleeves, some units I served in did not allow sleeves rolled up as a precaution against skin cancer.

Response by 1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) made Mar 3 at 2024 11:32 AM

1SG Dean Mcbride (MPER) (CPHR) — Sun, 03 Mar 2024 11:32:43 -0500

I guess I missed the terminoloigy traing while I was on active service... I thought your poat on deblousing was about unblousing your boots! LOL As for taking your uniform top off... Attached photo shows me shirtless in Cambodia during the Vietnam conflict. I was a SFC (E-7) and did not see any problem with "deblousing"!

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Mar 4 at 2024 10:24 PM

SFC Richard Baerlocher — Mon, 04 Mar 2024 22:24:37 -0500

I w as a Food Service Sergeant in Guam during the refugee operation, "Operation New Life" in Guam. We had to cook in 120-130 degree heat. we drank gallons of water every day, and soaked each other down with a hose. We all took off our Fatigue shirts. We had a VIP coming, and our Commader told us to put on our shirts we didn't look military in only t-shirts. Our reply was sir if you want us to wer our shirts just sytand in the tent with us. you don't have to do anything but stand. The Colonel lasted all of 3-4 minutes before he said "Forget that Order", and left.

Response by SGT Jacob Helms made Mar 6 at 2024 4:27 PM

SGT Jacob Helms — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 16:27:28 -0500

I remember my time in Korea, 75,76 we were allowed to be untucked at Camp Page and Camp Coburn, but while in the upper command areas shirts were tucked. But never removed.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Mar 8 at 2024 7:30 AM

SSG Brian G. — Fri, 08 Mar 2024 07:30:05 -0500

Unless directed otherwise, individual soldiers don't get to determine that. That is command directed based on CAT rating and situation. The key here is uniformity. If one person in the formation does it, they all have to do it or not do it, unless there is a medical exigency.

The commander is advised each day on the expected weather and temperatures either low or high for the day and makes general decisions and basic orders based on that and passes it along to his training officers and NCOes. There is no strict "you must" directive on this as it would be stupid and hazardous.

SM's are or should be trained on heat symptoms and what to look for and do when they present, even if the weather is not in the higher CAT ratings. An NCO or Jr NCO should be observant of those under their charge and even those that are not and are just part of the formation and be quick to apprise the NCOIC of changes so he or she can make snap judgments. It's up to the NCOIC to make that judgment call.

For instance: An E-4 might be in charge of a detail to fill sandbags, conduct uniform PT or some other detail. Based on their observations they could order the detail to de-blouse given the weather and physical activity. This is ok until such time as a higher ranking NCO or officer countermands the order.

At the end of the day the best answer is going to be NCOes/Officers can order a detail to de-blouse based on needs and their discretion unless ordered otherwise. It's a judgment call.

Response by SrA Cecelia Eareckson made Apr 8 at 2024 5:03 PM

SrA Cecelia Eareckson — Mon, 08 Apr 2024 17:03:35 -0400

Call me cynical, but I don't see this as health concerns. Best guess? This is meant to punish everyone for bringing more women outside of office space. Solution, at one's own expense, is the various brands of sun-screening clothes that are designed to be comfortable in hot weather. A white tee shirt is a white tee shirt. If it happens to be sunblocking, well, that's fine.

Response by MSG Bennie McGrew made Apr 21 at 2024 5:44 PM

MSG Bennie McGrew — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 17:44:45 -0400

Wetbulb

Response by SSgt Dennis Kindrick made Apr 21 at 2024 8:23 PM

SSgt Dennis Kindrick — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 20:23:04 -0400

I was a Carpenter in the USAF. I spent time in the far east and south east Asia. The humidity was unbearable at . The work went on rain, shine, cold or hot. Rather than having Troup falling out from heat we were allowed to remove our uniform while on the job site. The job got done and we didn't loose anyone to heat stroke. Common sence tell us that if the mission come frist, our personal must be looked after.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Apr 21 at 2024 10:02 PM

1SG Brian Adams — Sun, 21 Apr 2024 22:02:22 -0400

Depends on the situation at hand. Common sense must prevail. NCO's make the call to take tops off. Take care of your troops first and foremost. Take the bite from the Commander or CSM if need be. By the way, I am not Crusty or Grumpy, but I am a retired First Sergeant. Be, know, do...Hoooah!!!