When is skipping the chow line acceptable, or is it?

2021-01-12T20:59:10-05:00

This is a question that I've heard brought a few times. Let's say I'm an instructor at a given military installation and I happen to instruct new officers, many of which were prior military, (has no bearing on this question). In the past when they (new officers 2LT - CPT) arrived they were assigned meal cards, however with Covid, they now receive BAS. The kicker is that they cannot leave the installation, so they mostly all eat in the DFAC. This is also a training installation so Drill Sergeants have large groups of Soldiers in lines most meals. When is it acceptable for someone to skip past the AIT Soldiers being that only an hour is allowed for lunch? Should they ask the Drills if they can skip? I would submit that it's not really acceptable, but I don't believe there is a black and white answer for this. This is just meant as a point of discussion. Thanks for your feedback. R,

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 9:26 PM

2021-01-12T21:26:52-05:00

I was a DS. If they have time to be in the DFAC, they have time. Just give the DS the courtesy of knowing you’re cutting to the front.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 9:26 PM

2021-01-12T21:26:58-05:00

I don't think I would do it. Not in TRADOC where all eyes are on you, where your name will be remembered by every single AIT soldier who reads your name tape.

I wouldn't do it as a BOLC 2LT either (being prior service) cause I know push comes to shove I was just an over paid PVT. Some Drill SGT will get bent out of shape, send a note to someone and pretty soon full birds are swooping down upon all of BOLC, and new policies get published with officer only hours.

Right now as a CPT, I'd probably say, Hey butter, WTF, get back here and you can stand in front of me.

It just takes one COL who thinks something is uncool, and soon enough the rest of the facility will know about it. It's simply not worth the risk. TRADOC officers have much more latitude to manage how they feed themselves from food in their rooms, and getting around the base or even off.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 9:29 PM

2021-01-12T21:29:58-05:00

Is there not a line for O/SNCOs? As an unwritten rule, the troops always eat first. No seconds until everyone has eaten.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 9:31 PM

2021-01-12T21:31:49-05:00

I don't ever skip past anyone in line. Even when I was at ALC or SLC - we ate in the DFAC with AIT. I didn't skip in line - because that's rude.

I don't think I'd even ask the drill sergeants either. If someone wanted to they could but I've skipped meals before. It's not the end of the world. If there's a shopette, I'd run over there and grab something.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 12 at 2021 9:59 PM

2021-01-12T21:59:01-05:00

Skipping the line is bad optics, it's tough to sell the operational need. Personal recommendation: with officer students, you can make some deals with them and work to adjust the before and after class time a little to maybe get them to the DFAC before the AIT students get there so as soon as the serving starts they are in front. They can eat and be gone. There are also likely far fewer officer students than AIT students.m

Response by GySgt Gary Cordeiro made Jan 12 at 2021 10:11 PM

2021-01-12T22:11:20-05:00

Never eat before the troops, period.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 12 at 2021 10:20 PM

2021-01-12T22:20:52-05:00

Never.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 10:23 PM

2021-01-12T22:23:25-05:00

Whenever I went to a DFAC near Basic Training I didn't wait on the Trainees. I was an Instructor also but at another Camp that didn't have a DFAC. It was either I jumped the line and ate or I didn't eat sometimes. I didn't think fast food was really an option. But most of the times I went I was waived on. I had students that I had to take care. I didn't do it often but sometimes you don't really have a choice. I usually avoided that DFAC and went to another one that was farther out but I always didn't have the chance.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jan 12 at 2021 11:07 PM

2021-01-12T23:07:23-05:00

To borrow a line from LTC Jason Mackay... "Skipping the line is bad optics, it's tough to sell the operational need." Nothing breeds resentment more than watching some puffed up goober who thinks they are entitled to some thing just because they can. Now that being said, Cadre is often on short time constraints due to other "out of classroom" tasks and requirements and may truly need to expedite through. A solution could be as simple as inquiring if the DFAC has a policy (or can implement one) stating Cadre may move to the front of the line. As an alternative, can class schedules be flexed enough so your students are not trying to obtain meals at the same time as AIT troops?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2021 11:20 PM

2021-01-12T23:20:19-05:00

I think it's completely unacceptable. Allowing one group to skip the line reinforces the idea to that group that they are special, or exempt. That attitude gets brought to the platoon as a new Lieutenant, and that kind of attitude is a bad attitude for a new LT. I've met more than a few LTs who came to their platoon with that sense of entitlement and their Soldiers hated them. Lieutenants should eat in line, preferably after their own Soldiers, just like their PSGs do. I've seen plenty of Battalion Commanders, Brigade Commanders, and Company Commanders get in the back of the line and wait their turn. In my mind, if my leaders can stand in line, I can too.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Jan 13 at 2021 1:50 AM

2021-01-13T01:50:19-05:00

Never.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Jan 13 at 2021 5:38 AM

2021-01-13T05:38:51-05:00

Bring a granola bar and get in line like everyone else, And eat all on your plate

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 6:51 AM

2021-01-13T06:51:12-05:00

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 7:47 AM

2021-01-13T07:47:07-05:00

MSG,
I believe skipping the line is loudly stating that "My needs are more than yours" or "I am more important than you are." I would simply do what I've done in the past at schools, eat lunch in my room. I'd stock up at the commissary and make my own lunch daily. Its a lot more relaxing and you're not slamming your lunch down because you only get 5 min to eat, due to the lines.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 8:18 AM

2021-01-13T08:18:36-05:00

The answer is in the question...they receive BAS. Call Jimmy Johns.
It is also a teaching point for those LTs. Remind them that those Privates are the "muscles" of the organization. They do all the lifting, pushing, pulling, running, etc.. they need to be fed. They need a decent meal to help their morale, they damn well DESERVE to eat without having to rush (when possible).
"Never put yourself in a position where you can take from these men (or women)." Dick Winters in BoB (dunno if he actually said it or if it was just the show)

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 9:58 AM

2021-01-13T09:58:58-05:00

A true leader is the servant of his subordinates. Every commander I had and every NCO I worked with understood that. Troops eat first.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jan 13 at 2021 10:14 AM

2021-01-13T10:14:40-05:00

Usually the OOM, commonly called O Club, serves good food at reasonable prices. I never ate in a mess hall after becoming O except when Duty Officer and ate one meal a day to record the quality and quantity of food served.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Jan 13 at 2021 11:46 AM

2021-01-13T11:46:52-05:00

When I was Navy enlisted RHIP is prominent throughout the service shipboard or land base. When I visited an Army post I observed their rules.

When I commissioned AF and PHS I stood in line as all other officers without complaint. When I commanded deployed medical units I ate last; I wanted to ensure all had plenty and I was aware of any shortages as such, again no complaint as I felt it was my duty. It also gave my unit time to see the old man and for me to greet them.

I say all this to simply say each branch of service has different customs and traditions, and as a commanding officer regardless of command size different responsibilities.

Interesting discussion. Thank you!

Response by PO1 Sanford Snyder made Jan 13 at 2021 11:54 AM

2021-01-13T11:54:09-05:00

I like a line from the movie "White Christmas" concerning General Waverly: "we ate then he ate, we slept then he slept, then nobody slept for 48 hours". This is leadership, take care of the troops first.

Response by 1SG Ronald Rieck made Jan 13 at 2021 12:06 PM

2021-01-13T12:06:19-05:00

I had a National Guard O-6 as our commander in Afghanistan. He had been former Navy and was pretty unfamiliar with the Army way of doing things since he had never deployed with the Army. He was really taken aback when we made sure the enlisted soldiers ate before he did..

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 1:45 PM

2021-01-13T13:45:22-05:00

There is tradition and then what is practical. In a training environment, the DFAC is very different than feeding personnel on ship or in the field. Yes, leaders should absolutely ensure the needs of their subordinates, and in many cases, before their own needs. On an aircraft however, you must take your oxygen mask first, before you can help another in the event of cabin depressurization. If a large group of AIT Soldiers march up to the DFAC and three 2LTs show up at the same time, I would say, let the three 2LTs go first, not out of courtesy to their rank per se, but simply as fellow human beings. There is good reason why many senior officers are great chefs themselves. I can out pack a lunch box better than any Soldier in my unit. Why? I don't always have time to wait until every last Soldier I out rank decides to straggle to the mess hall. The officer's club is closed at nearly every installation, so I have to run my own private one out of the trunk of my car at the installation park. I have to brief a two star general at 1330 sharp and must be ready at 1315. In the field, I always plan on living off MRES.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jan 13 at 2021 2:47 PM

2021-01-13T14:47:18-05:00

I have never skipped in from of troops even as a 1SG, I sat back and waited my turn. It is not like anyone was going to yell at me or anything anyway :) I taught my youngest that leaders eat last and it stuck with him even now while he is on AD.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jan 13 at 2021 3:17 PM

2021-01-13T15:17:41-05:00

In our hall officers and Sr NCOs had their own side of the chow hall, own line own seating. The other side obviously E5 and below, yin’s still have to be an ass at any rank to jump line, you outrank many doesn’t make you special or any better.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Jan 13 at 2021 4:05 PM

2021-01-13T16:05:23-05:00

I once saw the Bde XO grab the entire staff and skip to the head of the line for.....Piss Testing.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 13 at 2021 4:22 PM

2021-01-13T16:22:19-05:00

My vote is do not cut the line. It looks strange at best. IMO only on-duty first responders should cut line if they need to grab food and get back to their post.

I didn't learn much Army stuff as an Air Force Officer, but it was impressed upon me that the troops and horses are always cared for first. As far as I could, I made sure the enlisted aircrew were fed and housed before the officers. If the enlisted had to stay at the aircraft for offload or maintenance after the O's went to chow or quarters, I always asked if we could bring back some food for the E's. When I got to the billeting office, I made sure there were rooms reserved for the E's. If necessary, I signed for the rooms and took the keys back to the E's at the aircraft. These little efforts to take care of the enlisted aircrew helps them take care of the aircraft and the mission.

Response by SSG Brian L. made Jan 13 at 2021 4:50 PM

2021-01-13T16:50:36-05:00

As a current Drill I can tell you that our chow hall time is one of our holiest timelines that we have to abide bye. It is a hard time that is scheduled weeks in advance and our training is literally built around that time. I rarely takes more than 10 to 15 minutes to get the whole company through the line with Drill pushing. I would say just ask the Drill running the show at the moment and I suppose on a small scale exceptions can be made but on a whole suck it up and wait. These are little civilians being molded and are exerting a lot of calories especially compared to their prior lives. Anyone else is an adult and should plan their meal time accordingly and if they are s student and they are given times I have a strong suspicion that their instructors are aware or should be made so. The instructors and students typically have a ;lot more flexibility to adjust than Basic Trainees. Case by case and for limited numbers... but generally NO.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 6:39 PM

2021-01-13T18:39:08-05:00

I attended FC BOLC at Fort Jackson in late 2018 and we ran into this very same issue. Almost without fail we ( the 2LTs) would proceed to the back of the line and wait and nearly every single time the Drill Sergeants invited us to the front of the line within 5 min. of us being there. May be different by installation, DFAC, and Drill Sergeant, but as I said we were almost always asked by the drill sergeants to come to the front of the line.

Response by MSG Darren Gaddy made Jan 13 at 2021 8:05 PM

2021-01-13T20:05:31-05:00

Thanks for all your comments. They are all valid and helpful and I really appreciate all the feedback. My wife is an active duty field grade officer and is currently working this situation. She often does a litmus test with me, so I included all of you. Thanks again.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 8:40 PM

2021-01-13T20:40:49-05:00

If one is not important enough to send a runner to grab chow for them because they are too busy, then one isn't important enough to cut in line.

Have a battle grab to-go boxes for his buddies. Those MRE's one doesn't eat when given, keep them at the ready.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2021 9:36 PM

2021-01-13T21:36:35-05:00

Does the DFAC not have specified time blocks for the people required to dine there?

Response by 1SG Mitchell Smith made Jan 14 at 2021 2:43 PM

2021-01-14T14:43:06-05:00

MSG,

88M Transportation school, Fort lost
in the Woods we had a second chow line for 'all others' Officers, NCO's, regularly Army etc...whenever there line was empty they would shift the trainees to that line....but far as them skipping, nope...trainees have a strict time-line for daily schedules and when interrupted it could cause working late or weekends as you already know.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 15 at 2021 3:10 PM

2021-01-15T15:10:04-05:00

I would say CQ runner and staff duty NCO.

Response by SSG Jason Penn made Jan 15 at 2021 8:03 PM

2021-01-15T20:03:05-05:00

This response is purely opinion, I could be wrong, but these are my views. First of all, there are other places on post to eat than a DFAC, and since Officers receive BAS, they can eat at those other establishments. AIT Soldiers have no choice but to eat in the DFAC. As you said, time is limited for lunch. Being AIT, training takes priority, meaning that this is the established time for AIT Soldiers to eat, so to stay on schedule with the long lines of AIT Soldiers, the AIT Soldiers have priority! I have attended courses as an NCO at AIT stations before, and I waited until it was my turn in line. Sure, it is aggravating to have to wait in a line, but if the AIT Soldiers can do it, so can everyone else.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 15 at 2021 8:05 PM

2021-01-15T20:05:36-05:00

I teach science courses in a high school. At lunch, we have pretty decent school lunches so I eat at school. I am often asked by other teachers why I don't jump to the front of the line, because I can since I am a teacher. I explain I wait in line because it demonstrates respect for the students. I often get fist bumps and high fives in the hallway throughout the day as I move to and from my classroom to handle business. Days where I know I'm not going to have time to wait, I bring my lunch. I think if we want respect as leaders, we should demonstrate what respect looks like.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 15 at 2021 9:35 PM

2021-01-15T21:35:51-05:00

MSG Darren Gaddy Learning to buck a Chow line or many other lines at the reception station is a leadership experience! While being a two week holdover at Fort Ord in 1953, I soon learned to be aggressive. Washing my Herringbone Twill Fatigues in the wooden barrack’s mop sink and then wearing those fatigues that were wrinkled from having been washed gave me stature. I could, as an ‘Old Soldier’, importantly move to the front of any line with presumptive authority and no recruit wearing unwashed fatigues would dare challenge me.

Response by CPL Evan Intlekofer made Jan 18 at 2021 12:52 PM

2021-01-18T12:52:57-05:00

There is no good reason skip the line. Maybe if the soldiers in line invite you foreword? In combat operations, sometimes time is limited. If you have time enough to drive to a chow hall, you got time enough to wait in line there. If a soldier doesn't have time for standing in line, turn around and go to your back-up, soldiers should always be prepared with a plan B for just about anything.

Response by SSG Curt Pangracs made Jan 19 at 2021 1:16 AM

2021-01-19T01:16:51-05:00

Never, EVER, skip a meal. First thing I learned in Basic Training.

Response by PO1 Robbie Bell made Jan 22 at 2021 11:06 AM

2021-01-22T11:06:44-05:00

NEVER! Unless you have some super-important task to complete in a hurry. I used to watch the E-6 and above "fleeters" go to the head of the line and it disgusted me. The people that do the bulk of the work are standing there waiting to be fed while the paper pushers stroll to the front because of their rank? We E6 and above Seabees used to yell at the E6 and above fleeters at the chow hall and make them get behind us at least. We didn't take kindly to being jumped in line because we value our worker bees. The same should apply to the officers. If they didn't have a separate dining area, they should wait in line with everyone else. Take care of your troops and they will respect you for it!

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 28 at 2021 10:59 PM

2021-01-28T22:59:58-05:00

Spent more time than I liked in TRADOC. This is a coordination issue. Classes should be staggering thwir chow times so that different classes arrive at the DFAC at different times. If this isn't happening, the cadre are failing.

Response by PO2 S.J. Carroll made Feb 13 at 2021 5:46 PM

2021-02-13T17:46:10-05:00

Personally, I do not think it should be allowable to skip ahead of the lines of trainees. Their lives are rigidly scheduled during training. This should be a good training experience for the new officers, that their troops should come first anyway.
S. Carroll, USN (Ret)

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Feb 20 at 2021 1:04 PM

2021-02-20T13:04:33-05:00

They are officers and need to find a solution to limited time to eat and long lines. My suggestion, go to the commissary the day prior and bring a sack lunch.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2021 9:59 AM

2021-02-21T09:59:31-05:00

The ole chow hall! The ole card too! Hi sir!

Response by SFC Charles Dennis made Feb 24 at 2021 10:56 AM

2021-02-24T10:56:03-05:00

I would recommend your CoC meeting with the DFAC management team to find a slot your Soldiers can enter the DFAC without interfering with the trainees. Then schedule that block of time on the training schedule. Then brief your Soldiers that the block of time can not be deviated from if they would like to eat in the DFAC.
If this is not practical, your CoC might discuss drawing field rations.
Also, please remember the DFAC is focused on Soldiers with a meal card. Your Soldiers receive BAS so they can purchase food at places other than the DFAC.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Feb 28 at 2021 10:48 PM

2021-02-28T22:48:57-05:00

They can wait just like everyone else. If you are going to the same chow hall as trainees, then you need to get their early. I always waited in line. It sucked, but it’s the right thing to do.

Response by TSgt Daniel Johnson made Mar 4 at 2021 9:10 AM

2021-03-04T09:10:51-05:00

I think it’s acceptable when the mission dictates. Then and only then is it acceptable.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2021 11:12 AM

2021-03-05T11:12:04-05:00

BLUF: It’s never acceptable and it goes against everything I was taught as a junior soldier/NCO (I’ve also been on the other end of it where my NCO went to chow while we were still working....we ended up missing chow and getting MREs)

I was at AMEDD BOLC last year and this was never really and issue. All of the officers simply fell in line of AIT soldiers were already there. I eventually figured out roughly the times they would take the Joes to chow and I would either show up early/late or sit in my truck and wait for the line to die down. I remained professional in all interactions with the DS and soldiers. Everybody ate and the world didn’t end.

Response by SSG John Lalli made Mar 5 at 2021 12:52 PM

2021-03-05T12:52:14-05:00

As a young private standing in the chow line I would have soldiers cut their buddies in front of me. Sometimes if on a tight schedule, I would have to skip the meal or eat half of it. This always felt unfair and upset me considerably. Upon being promoted to SGT/E5, I never allowed this to happen in my presence. Soldiers often thanked me for this. Which was unneeded.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2021 6:13 PM

2021-03-05T18:13:39-05:00

The type of people who can get away with skipping the chow line are the same people who others will wait on if they are a few minutes late. All skipping the chow line does is further delay the junior enlisted kids who will have paperwork done on them when they are two minutes late back from chow.

I am a SFC. If I'm sitting in a line for a haircut during our chow break with three other kids who are junior enlisted, I'm going to let them cut me in the line, because if I'm back from chow a little late, nobody will bat an eye when I say where I was. A snarky asshole might say "you need to learn to manage your time better", but it will end there. The junior enlisted kids, on the other hand, will get counseling statements and punishments for being late back from lunch. To use rank or any kind of special title to delay junior soldiers in any way is just indicative of selfishness. No place for it.

Response by MSgt Mason Manner made Mar 5 at 2021 6:38 PM

2021-03-05T18:38:12-05:00

I always believed it was SF or MPs ON DUTY

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2021 12:22 AM

2021-03-06T00:22:14-05:00

The issue isn’t the AIT soldiers in line but the unit not coordinating around the DFAC hours. Move classes around or shorten lunch. Open the dfac up 30 minutes before or after normal hours only for specific groups.

Response by MCPO Hans Brakob made Mar 6 at 2021 1:31 AM

2021-03-06T01:31:41-05:00

In USN the Officers and Chiefs (E7-8-9) ate in separate facilities aboard ship. I have no experience in a messing facility that didn't float.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2021 10:53 AM

2021-03-06T10:53:02-05:00

I think it would depend on the context. If it’s a group or an individual doing it arbitrarily because they can, that’s obviously bad business. I can say from personal experience as a member of flight crew while deployed I have skipped the in line. This was ONLY when crew members were on a QRF/MEDEVAC/CASEVAC crew. If we weren’t performing those duties we waited just like everyone else. Concerning students there should definitely be a deconfliction between leadership concerning times to allow all parties adequate time to eat.

Response by Capt Raymond Lewis made Mar 6 at 2021 2:32 PM

2021-03-06T14:32:02-05:00

It is a tradition in the Marine Corps that officers eat only after every enlisted person has been fed. That is how it was in Vietnam and bases in the USA. I assume that the tradition is still adhered to as most Marine traditions are still honored.

Response by Maj Tom Rogers made Mar 6 at 2021 5:29 PM

2021-03-06T17:29:30-05:00

As an officer, you eat when your people are taken care of. You take care of your troops. Then you take care of yourself. ~Maj Tom

Response by SGT Michael Van Geertruy made Mar 6 at 2021 6:09 PM

2021-03-06T18:09:08-05:00

Never ever treat your soldiers like second class citizens, or they will model thier behavior after your expectations. Ive seen plenty of entitled 2nd lts get their career prematurely halted when a normally high performing platoon starts acting like brain dead morons just to prove the point that the offficers depend on their soldiers to get things done. Sure, go ahead and.eat before them, but that soldier you just pissed off by cutting in front of may be one of your sqad leaders in a few years.

Response by SPC William Edwards made Mar 7 at 2021 6:00 AM

2021-03-07T06:00:58-05:00

They get an HOUR for lunch!?

Response by Capt Christian D. Orr made Mar 7 at 2021 7:24 AM

2021-03-07T07:24:25-05:00

Maybe this is just an Air Force thing, but at boot camp and tech school (the USAF equivalent of AIT), Military Training Instructors (MTIs) and tech school Primary Instructors (PIs) regularly skipped the lines full of basic trainees and tech school students. Naturally, as a student myself, I didn’t much appreciate that entitlement.

Response by SGT Wade Hinson made Mar 7 at 2021 9:30 AM

2021-03-07T09:30:09-05:00

CQ & Guard duty maybe...mostly leaders should eat last though.

Response by SSG Michael Snyder made Mar 7 at 2021 9:39 AM

2021-03-07T09:39:49-05:00

NEVER acceptable - just like stealing from your roommate.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Mar 7 at 2021 10:52 AM

2021-03-07T10:52:42-05:00

Only time it's acceptable is if & only if,... Never!

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Mar 7 at 2021 2:10 PM

2021-03-07T14:10:54-05:00

Ideally it should be E-1 through O-10 with the exception of ancient unicorns like me! LOL

Response by Sgt Dane Jones made Mar 7 at 2021 6:33 PM

2021-03-07T18:33:19-05:00

My practice and that of most of leadership was to make sure the men were fed first and then eat.

Response by Sgt Steve Williams made Mar 7 at 2021 9:38 PM

2021-03-07T21:38:19-05:00

Wait your damn turn at the end of the line.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2021 11:41 PM

2021-03-07T23:41:16-05:00

I served 30 years in the USAF and I can honestly say that I have never once skipped line for anything. It is unacceptable, it is rude, and a good way to lose respect.

Response by CWO5 Ray Lee made Mar 8 at 2021 12:50 AM

2021-03-08T00:50:18-05:00

In the field, troops eat first follow by SNCO and officers. At least that was the rule when I was in uniform. In garrison, there are separate messing facilities for officers and SNCO. On ships there is a general mess (not for generals). 1st class mess and Chief’s mess sections.

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Mar 8 at 2021 6:08 AM

2021-03-08T06:08:45-05:00

When liver is on the menu

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Mar 8 at 2021 9:06 AM

2021-03-08T09:06:01-05:00

I remember that people in base housing or living off base got Basic Allowance for Subsistence (BAS) Those living in the barracks got commuted rations (COMRATS). Those living in the barracks just signed in because the galley had already received the meals costs. The Galley was supposed to operate on that money plus paid for meals. If a Chief came in he paid because his money went to the Chiefs' Mess. (If there was one) If the Chief invited some E-6 in the Chief paid or the E-6's meal.
Breakfast was the cheapest meal. Dinner was a little bit higher. Lunch was the most expensive.
why? Because most of the of base people ate lunch on base and this allowed the Galley to recoup more of the BAS money. More people paying a higher price was good for the galley. They were subsidizing the people living in the barracks.
Any person who is on BAS and doesn't eat at the galley is cheating the Galley of the revenue from him. The Galley does a count of all the Comrats people and receives its funds based on its head count. If the head count is consistently low that could indicate that the food isn't good and someone will investigate to see why people aren't aren't eating there. Chow is a major morale issue. Napoleon said, "The army travels on it's stomach". He understood the need for good food.
I ate all my meals in the Galley. My favorite item was SOS. It still is. I buy Stauffers Creamed Dried Beef. No one else makes it. Try it.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Mar 8 at 2021 11:05 AM

2021-03-08T11:05:50-05:00

Skipping the line? Somewhere around the 12th of NEVER! Not for officers or enlisted. It's rude. Everyone "only has" that alloted time for a meal; none is "more entitled" than the others. Be considerate of your fellows!

Response by SSgt Rodney Baumgartner made Mar 11 at 2021 1:24 PM

2021-03-11T13:24:08-05:00

I would say that the only time it is acceptable to skip the chow line is if you are on-duty and armed. MP, SP, etc.

Response by PO1 Ronald Parker made Mar 12 at 2021 2:16 PM

2021-03-12T14:16:57-05:00

The only time skipping the line was allowed was for on-coming watch standers and they usually were served before the chow line even opened.

Response by MAJ Alan Montgomery made Mar 12 at 2021 2:28 PM

2021-03-12T14:28:40-05:00

When I served it was troops first, NCO's and Officers next. Just the way it was. No one questioned it and everyone adhered to the pecking order. Might have been different for REMFs but for those on the line this was the way of it.

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 12 at 2021 4:24 PM

2021-03-12T16:24:10-05:00

As a retired Marine Mustang Officer I would say it is never acceptable for them to skip in line. Find a more suitable time to eat, talk to chow hall personnel and ask them for a bag lunch or any other option. The visual that Officers would go to front of the line is not acceptable in any branch.

Response by CW4 Robert Mixon made Mar 13 at 2021 10:42 AM

2021-03-13T10:42:57-05:00

officer eat after enlisted

Response by SGT Michael Van Geertruy made Mar 13 at 2021 8:46 PM

2021-03-13T20:46:43-05:00

When I was a Drill Sergeant, there were 2 times when an officer cut in line. Once it was the commander, and of course, we let him. Another time it was a very junior officer. We didn't challenge him at the DFAC, but his command addressed it after our commander made a phone call.
That said, MP's on duty, Duty Officer/NCO, etc got all the cuts they needed.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2021 10:18 AM

2021-03-14T10:18:55-04:00

Virtually never. 1. If you are an individual, you know the times and you know the place: get there on time. If you are in a group, you should all review #1 above. If you are a leader, and your plans didn't work out like you planned... it is on you to make the time up, you should be aware of #1 above. The military is a finely tuned machine, we can't have wheels and cylinders working out of sync. One leader's error, cannot be another leader's responsibility

Response by SFC Rich Bright made Mar 14 at 2021 5:41 PM

2021-03-14T17:41:06-04:00

I agree with- "Troops eat First, Leaders second" I always did this, and many times in the field, something was short, and I did without, never should I get the last Prime Rib or cake, if my troops did not. Too many times, I saw my seniors not follow this un-written rule, I never said anything, but my guys saw it and I'd like to think they respected me for this small act of gratitude to their service.
All that said, In some case, special duty or operational situations occur and groups need to cut the line to meet those dead-lines. Mission First, always...

Response by SSG Walter R Cooke JR made Mar 14 at 2021 10:07 PM

2021-03-14T22:07:34-04:00

The chow line is the chow line and its first come first serve. The Drill Sergeant are on a tight schedule and plan to hit the chow line as soon as possible. I spent 3 years on the TRAIL and chow, the mail, and sleep hours are not to be taken lightly! When you see the 1sgt, the CSM standing in line do you really think cutsies are kool?

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Mar 15 at 2021 4:19 AM

2021-03-15T04:19:40-04:00

All are trainees, so no one is better than the other. Officers eat after their troops or subordinates and this should apply in this case too. Jumping lines for chow in a DFAC is totally unacceptable and bad optics as well.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2021 12:01 PM

2021-03-17T12:01:22-04:00

There are times when skipping the line is acceptable. Those that have very limited time available to eat would be one of them. Most notably, I used to see MP's skipping the line, since they do not have a designated meal break. On call all the time. On a related topic, my middle son just got a job at a car manufacturing plant. He was telling me that the President of the company would come down and visit with people on the line. He also said that the President waits in line for lunch all the time. It was a great lead in for me to explain the difference between leaders and bosses. At 19 years old, he had never thought about that before.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 18 at 2021 1:22 AM

2021-03-18T01:22:09-04:00

MSG Darren Gaddy We used to skip the chow line when old WW II rations were served on Thursdays!!

Or were you referring to ‘bucking’ the chow line and advancing before others due to the responsibility’s of your ‘position’ or rank? SGT Philip Roncari SFC William Farrell LTC Private RallyPoint Member SGT Private RallyPoint Member LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C. PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSLSP5 Jim Curry

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Mar 18 at 2021 5:42 PM

2021-03-18T17:42:38-04:00

I was prior service. I was a Sergeant before I left the Army for college. As a Sergeant I learned that as an NCO I always look after the welfare of my troops first and foremost. Once I became an Officer that training of always looking after my troops stuck with me. As a matter of fact I would give up my place in the chow line to an enlisted soldier in order to eat first. I served over 34 as both enlisted and officer and the training to always see to my soldiers never left me. So to answer the original question NO skipping the line is not right - we set the example.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2021 7:48 PM

2021-03-21T19:48:11-04:00

Leaders can always skip in the chow lines

Straight to the back of everyone else.

Response by SPC Tj F. made Mar 21 at 2021 7:59 PM

2021-03-21T19:59:31-04:00

Whether Military or not, it should always be considered bad etiquette to have senior leadership eating before their troops. I even instilled that into one of my shop supervisors. It finally sunk in, and he wouldn't go to lunch until all of his personnel had. I was always last to eat. It's a small example, but it still hits the team: They know you'll take care of them and that their needs are not only important to you, but actively shows you care. One more rung on the Team-Building ladder.

Response by C/SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2021 7:24 AM

2021-03-26T07:24:20-04:00

In the Air Force, we were not required to eat at the chow haul. An E-5 or above could go on separate rations and receive their rations in their paycheck. This helped them if they lived off base and married. You did not have to be married or live off base to receive it. We paid for the meals as we ate them.

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Mar 27 at 2021 6:28 PM

2021-03-27T18:28:00-04:00

Only if you are about to head out on a mission
Even then, your soldiers eat before you do.

Response by SSG John Ossmann made Mar 28 at 2021 10:10 AM

2021-03-28T10:10:59-04:00

It might depend. If those officers have places to be due to the school they are in, then it might be acceptable. It is a long time ago for me now, but I sort of recall a separate chow line for officers/NCOs/permanent party. If they are simply skipping line when they don’t need to then I would say they are wrong.

Overall, I think the local command and/or who ever runs the mess hall should be dealing with this appropriately.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2021 8:40 PM

2021-03-29T20:40:06-04:00

The ONLY time anyone should be allowed to skip the chow line is when they are in a duty status, (i.e. in a watch section that 'has the guard' or however Army folks call it). If they're not in a duty status, they can wait like the rest of 'em.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 11:01 PM

2021-04-05T23:01:03-04:00

Whenever the mission dictates - you know, "Mission First, Soldiers Always"? Sometimes the mission dictates that the guard mount, the CO's driver, the medics or the next convoy crew go the head of the line in order to accomplish a mission. It would always be under the watchful eye of the leader authorising it and it should be used sparingly as frequent use of the technique just shows the flaws in your planning cycle. Joe should be allowed to jump if THE MISSION requires.

Should Senior NCOs or officers bogart the line? NEVER. Plan better next time.

Response by CSM Malcolm Clements made Apr 5 at 2021 11:49 PM

2021-04-05T23:49:29-04:00

In the rangers or SF, the lowest rank is first and the highest is last. NEVER skip. As a csm in the CAV, same rules.

Response by Lt Col Bill Fletcher made Apr 6 at 2021 2:09 PM

2021-04-06T14:09:34-04:00

Officers eat last, Commanding Officers absolutely last. If the dining hours are an issue staggering the times is the way to go.

Response by LTJG Kevin Matthews made Apr 6 at 2021 10:07 PM

2021-04-06T22:07:32-04:00

Where is this alternative reality planet where it's acceptable for an Army officer to even consider eating before enlisted personnel? I understand it's not only acceptable, but expected, in the Navy and Coast Guard. But I cannot for the life of me fathom any Army leader, let alone an officer, taking cuts in line to feed themselves outside of a mission essential purpose. I will go hungry and scrounge up a protein bar from some place before I walk into the DFAC and cut in front of anyone. What are they teaching in the pre-commission courses nowadays?

Response by LCDR Tim McKenzie made Apr 7 at 2021 2:15 AM

2021-04-07T02:15:52-04:00

I’ve always eaten in wardroom’s and officer messes. This is the type of thing that can happen when you don’t have separate dining facilities.

Response by MAJ Gary Davis made Apr 7 at 2021 6:20 AM

2021-04-07T06:20:24-04:00

Leaders always eat last. Period.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Apr 7 at 2021 5:00 PM

2021-04-07T17:00:30-04:00

In Thailand and other bases during the Vietnam War, security personnel were authorized to move (skip) to the front of the chow line. These individuals were either gate guards, flight line security or perimeter patrol. They carried their weapons and parked directly in front of the dinning hall doors for rapid exit. Signs placed directly outside the dinning hall doors and at the cashier desk, noted that security and alert personnel were priority diners. These personnel usually weren't more than four to six in numbers. Not .any other personnel complained about this issue, but there some that were vocal about it. There were a very few brawls about this. I saw this also at ARMY bases, which allowed security personnel to skip the chow line too. There was always the "boxed nasties" option for those personnel who could not be released for dining inside a cooled/heated
building for a meal. "Boxed nasties usually consisted of greasy fried chicken (3 pieces) bread, ketchup, fruit or fruit cup, a can of soda or two and a package of plasticware. These were also flight crew lunches. If you never had to stand guard for 8 to 12 hours with little more than a poncho or sunshade for the weather, cut the people some slack,who have to do it as their career field dictates.

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Apr 8 at 2021 12:19 AM

2021-04-08T00:19:19-04:00

I think Joe Always eats first. I remember when I first came in Senior NCO eat in a different chow or mess hall/ DFAC. I came in 1988 retired 2015 I was in the Navy first WARNG then the Army. In my time I was always taught Joe is first nothing trumps that. I will eat cold cuts or salad before I jump in front of Joe, That's all I got

Response by SSgt Matthew Herring made Apr 8 at 2021 12:55 AM

2021-04-08T00:55:57-04:00

It is my understanding that Navy mess lines are rank first. It works for them. I'm an Airman and we did not allow skipping.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2021 2:03 AM

2021-04-08T02:03:50-04:00

As an Army DS (E6 /7) we went in behind our platoons in rotating order 1,2,3,4...2,3,4,1 etc. per BN/BDE SOP. When with a CJTF, as an E9, we had a contracted DFAC/Mess (KBR or whatever) and it was first come, first serve regardless. I went on a French Navy Helicopter carrier and we went to their mess according to enlisted/officer rank. I don't know how the others were served on that ship but as an E9 we were served in tables of 4 by servers with a bottle of wine at each table. I went to a Naval Base and ate at the Chiefs Mess. On a French Foreign Legion post it was almost like the Navy. I can't recall eating at an AF or USMC mess so I can't comment on their SOP.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2021 6:24 AM

2021-04-08T06:24:40-04:00

I've never jumped a chow line. I will let others jump ahead of me, but that usually consists of Junior Enlisted and MPs on duty.

Response by PFC Stephen Trynosky made Apr 8 at 2021 11:52 AM

2021-04-08T11:52:27-04:00

An "officer" sleeps after everyone is bedded down. an "officer" eats after everyone is fed. If you do not, you "ain't" an officer just another privileged jerk. That is what this Pvt. taught his three sons and that is the way they ran their flights, sections and platoons.

Response by LTC James Shannon Crow made Apr 9 at 2021 5:26 PM

2021-04-09T17:26:15-04:00

As a 2LT, I was taught that you eat last. You could go to the head of the line, but there had to be a REAL operational requirement that meant you couldn’t wait. The only time I remember deliberately “skipping the line” was in the field. As I recall, somebody from HHQs came to our location and we had a working lunch. I don’t think we even went thru the line, but someone brought us some food while we were working. There were a couple of times in the field that my soldiers sent me to the front of the line. I said No, but they got a kick of, literally, telling me to shut up and do as I was told. Good guys. Would work their asses off when needed. But, in a garrison/training environment, no.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Apr 12 at 2021 12:59 AM

2021-04-12T00:59:25-04:00

Why did the group miss their assigned time? I don't believe this question is being asked. I'm sure you have something better to discuss, Darren.

Response by SGT John Halvorsen made Apr 30 at 2021 6:04 PM

2021-04-30T18:04:53-04:00

when they are serving slop or freeze dryed pork chop hard as a rock...

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made May 3 at 2021 9:10 PM

2021-05-03T21:10:08-04:00

Never. As an officer, I was allowed to skip to the front at the barber shop, but officers are given time to get a haircut, enlisted were not. Never took advantage. Being prior enlisted, I remembered officer who has all the time in the world but cut in front anyway. 18 years commissioned I never cut in front of an enlisted. The men come first.

Response by SPC Rob Hunker made May 8 at 2021 2:26 PM

2021-05-08T14:26:42-04:00

I was always the first guy in the chow line, so no issues with me.

Response by Todd Rasmussen made May 10 at 2021 6:07 PM

2021-05-10T18:07:37-04:00

A young officer with an entitlement attitude will have a short, unpleasant career. As my dad taught me, a 2nd LT is just an apprentice to a 1st SGT.

Response by SGT Thomas Seward made May 10 at 2021 10:04 PM

2021-05-10T22:04:30-04:00

32nd of Nevuary, and not a day earlier!

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made May 11 at 2021 9:11 AM

2021-05-11T09:11:44-04:00

Students have NO special authorization to skip in front of the line While a student you are merely a private or less
As a former instructor I would never tolerate this behavior
Still I was in when D I and instructors still had nads
If a another group leader tried this without a substantial reason And sometimes there I would correct them in a heartbeat
I had a group that jumped the chow line and not one DI question it Disappointing
But my group was in a hurry of no fault of our own

Response by CW4 John Snyder made May 11 at 2021 9:33 AM

2021-05-11T09:33:11-04:00

Never. Those officers should realize that the troops come first. They have limited time to chew and swallow, taste later. Stand in line Sir and Ma'am. The troops won't be there long.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 11 at 2021 11:51 AM

2021-05-11T11:51:57-04:00

When ordered.
As a 1SG in the field I always last.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made May 11 at 2021 7:57 PM

2021-05-11T19:57:27-04:00

When ordered.
When I was a 1SG, in the field, I always ate last.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made May 13 at 2021 11:11 AM

2021-05-13T11:11:09-04:00

If its a school, are there not scheduled chow times? This just sounds like a lack of coordination between the different classes/instructor teams.

There is no reason for individuals to get preference (an hour at a chow hall is more than enough). However, it would be reasonable for instructors to deconflict the overall schedule of when each class of students should be arriving for chow, just include the officer classes in the schedule.

Response by SFC Charles Woods made May 13 at 2021 7:37 PM

2021-05-13T19:37:08-04:00

I don't think it is accaptable.Of course I have been retired so long that My opinion may not mean much.I will tell you about one man that I met at Fort L eonard Wood MO.He was a COL.Job was basically to make sure the AIT troops were treated right.He would get in line at a Mess Hall,then make he was last man in line.He was there to make sure AIT troops got whatever was on the menu for that day,properly cooked.No one knew when he would show up.I remember seeing him in chow lines on weekends,holidays ETC. He made sure that he was last man served and then he would take any corrective action nescessary if things weren't right.I think that was called showing leadership,and doing your job right all the time.No wonder he retired as a B.G.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made May 16 at 2021 10:03 AM

2021-05-16T10:03:32-04:00

The only ethical reason for bypassing the line is exigence, which should be virtually unheard of on a competently run training installation.
NOTE: If you don't know what exigence is, look it up. There's a whole slew of legal and ethical concepts explicitly built on it. Plus it's a good dollar-ninety-five word that fits those occasions when you're tempted to start a sentence with "Poor planning on your part..."

Response by PO1 Don Uhrig made May 16 at 2021 8:28 PM

2021-05-16T20:28:45-04:00

It seems many responders forget that Rank has its Privalages. Assuming there is an agreed standard in place, a higher rank may go to the head of the line. Aboard ship in the enlisted galley, there was an agreed standard that one E6 could enter the line after each 4 junior enlisted. And when I was an instructor at a busy "A" school, the standard was the same for "Red Ropes". These standards demonstrated a system of fairness and balanced the concept of RHIP. An Instructor and E6 in the Navy often do not have the luxury of the same lunch time as junior enlisted. As an Instructor, just because I have dismissed by class for chow doesn't mean I get to leave immediately -- but I still need to be back at the same time as my students to resume training. Therefore, any chow line shipping needs to have a fair standard that is transparent to avoid discontent in the ranks. Countless times, my subordinates allowed me ahead of them because they knew I was taking care of their best interests. I thanked them all.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made May 18 at 2021 2:57 PM

2021-05-18T14:57:22-04:00

Question, do modern mess halls have a rear entrance for Os and NCOs? In my day They entered the rear and sat in their section, did cash collection sheet if applicable and DROs got their food order and brought them their tray.

Response by SSG Ken Gilder made May 30 at 2021 6:24 PM

2021-05-30T18:24:05-04:00

I go back a ways, but in my day, in garrison. officers were allowed to "buck the chow line." In the field, the officers did not eat until all the troops were fed.

Response by SPC Ramon Urias made Jun 4 at 2021 7:39 AM

2021-06-04T07:39:14-04:00

I remember in basic training at Ft Bliss, an overweight captain would break through the mess line and in a loud-booming voice, bark at the server to “do me right, private!” I never got his name but I’ll always remember that entitled smug look on his face.
Attitude reflects leadership so teach by example.

Response by MAJ John Eckholm made Jun 4 at 2021 10:20 PM

2021-06-04T22:20:59-04:00

There are occasions when head of the line is required like watch relief etc but not because the line is long and you don’t want to wait.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Jul 19 at 2021 1:47 PM

2021-07-19T13:47:09-04:00

Usually there is a separate line , when mixing AIT and other trainees.

Otherwise, they should respectfully have to wait in the same line with everyone else.

Granted I am the kind of guy, who told the General's aide, that the General need wait in line with everyone else (in a SRP blood draw line). Unless of course, he could get permission from everyone in the line to skip ahead. I'm not sure which was more amusing, the look of pure terror on his face, or that he actually went and asked everyone in line if the General could skip ahead. Like anyone would have said no.

I always hated listening to officers/ leaders bitch about how long it was taking for soldiers to get through, when they skipped every line they had to go through.

Response by SFC Pete Meyer made Jan 4 at 2022 1:57 PM

2022-01-04T13:57:07-05:00

This is an example of weak leadership. They are a disgrace.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Jan 6 at 2022 10:58 AM

2022-01-06T10:58:28-05:00

Real leaders put the troops first. Those who believe themselves to be royalty will cut lines. I was in a Marine DFAC & saw some major try to cut the line. A full bird in line stopped him & the major went to get behind the colonel. He was all apologetic. The colonel told him to get all the way to the back of the line & to apologize to all of the Marines, sailors, & soldiers he cut in front of. The look on the major's face was priceless.