When someone is medically retired and unable to complete recruit training, can they still be considered a Marine?

2017-03-08T15:07:37-05:00

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 3:13 PM

2017-03-08T15:13:59-05:00

It is my understanding from every Marine I have ever known, that unless you are handed the emblem at the end of the Crucible, then you have not earned the title of Marine.

Response by SSgt Gary Andrews made Mar 8 at 2017 3:14 PM

2017-03-08T15:14:34-05:00

No......just signing up, doesn't make you a Marine. You have to be able to pass all the requirements and be standing tall on graduation day before you can call yourself a Marine.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 3:14 PM

2017-03-08T15:14:43-05:00

LCpl Kenneth Bean Once you earn the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, you are a Marine.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Mar 8 at 2017 3:16 PM

2017-03-08T15:16:46-05:00

Not quoting any MCO here, but generally in the Corps, if you didn't make it through boot camp, you aren't a Marine. Regs technically will say you are, you're on the enlistment rolls, getting meals, lodging, pay, medical, etc & whatever separation paperwork you get sure comes from HQMC, but you didn't get through initiation. You may even rate lifetime VA bennies, but just use then and don't be trying to tell war stories at the Marine Corps League or VFW.
Just how it is.

Response by MSgt Mark Bucher made Mar 8 at 2017 3:19 PM

2017-03-08T15:19:19-05:00

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Mar 8 at 2017 3:26 PM

2017-03-08T15:26:15-05:00

Wait a second, someone was medically retired during boot camp?!?!

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Mar 8 at 2017 3:30 PM

2017-03-08T15:30:12-05:00

I'm not sure if this is a Marine specific question or a general one but someone else had a very similar discussion:
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-a-pv1-who-only-made-it-through-boot-camp-be-considered-a-veteran

Should a PV1 who only made it through boot camp be considered a VETERAN? | RallyPoint

This probably stirs up the old argument about "who's a veteran and who's NOT a veteran"..... but it brings up a valid point and re-ignites the question: "Where do we draw the line?" Does someone who apparently made it through boot but ended up being discharged for something other than a dishonorable discharge rate being a part of the discussion on anything in this forum? Or do we limit our discussions to a stricter standard?

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Mar 8 at 2017 3:36 PM

2017-03-08T15:36:40-05:00

No. They may be our biggest supporters, but they did not cross that finish line. If we make exceptions for one, we'd have to make exceptions for others. Where would you draw the line? Phase 3? Phase 2? What about that kid who jumped to his death the moment he got picked up by a platoon?

Wanting to be a Marine does not make one a Marine. They have to cross the finish line.

Response by MSgt George Cater made Mar 8 at 2017 4:04 PM

2017-03-08T16:04:42-05:00

Yeah, we all know that. I got NJP in 3rd Bn PISC for Violation of an Order or Regulation by calling the little darlings by terms other than private and recruit. (Collateral damage from a larger investigation into hazing & maltreatment. Once the Regimental Spies start digging....)

But we are all splitting hairs on this. That's why I worded my answer the way I did. TECHNICALLY you're a Marine from the moment you swear in at MEPS. You're on the books, you have orders saying you're Private Shmuckitelly, USMC or (USMCR). If you die in a bus or plane crash on the way to PI or SD, you'll be buried in your blues, in Arlington if your mom wants. If God forbid, some jackwad terrorist blows up your bus, you'll get a Purple Heart. Ever see a prive go on emergency leave in boot camp? They run them down to Uniforms and get them a set of Greens tailored on the spot. They don't send them out the gate in civvies. (At least they didn't back then).
The facts are that if the prives AREN'T Marines, they couldn't even be there. The DI's would be tormenting civilians and the prives could tell them to F Off and even hit the DI and not even get any brig time. Remember, you gotta be under the UCMJ to be punished under it. If you're under the UCMJ, you are sure as hell in the Marine Corps.

Now, having said all that, as I said before, technical regs is one thing, and practical day to day life, terminology and viewpoint is another. That's why I say only the silliest fool boot dumbass would EVER argue being a Marine without graduating (or completing the Crucible nowadays).

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member - SSgt Gary Andrews GySgt Stephen Anderson Cpl Justin Goolsby MSG Private RallyPoint Member MSG Private RallyPoint Member MSgt Mark Bucher Cpl Michael Oeser SSG Carlos Madden SGT Ben Keen

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 4:34 PM

2017-03-08T16:34:36-05:00

If they had any honor whatsoever, they would not consider it.

No.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 8 at 2017 5:08 PM

2017-03-08T17:08:02-05:00

No

According to a 1913 edition of Service Etiquette - When Commandant Biddle started the current centralized recruit training for Marines in 1911, a two part tradition was established. Enlisted recruits did not become Marines until they completed recruit training. The second part of the tradition has been unobserved and forgotten in the post-WWII era. That second part was that Officers serving with the Marines are also not Marines, unless they had served as an enlisted man prior to 1911 and gone through post or duty station recruit training, or after 1911 had completed centralized boot camp as an enlisted man.

The officers that had not earned the title Marine as enlisted men were Naval (NOT NAVY) officers, who were considered Lieutentant of Marines, Captain of Marines, etc. etc. The second part of the tradition has been unobserved and forgotten in the post-WWII era.

Way more than anyone really wanted to know.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 8 at 2017 6:01 PM

2017-03-08T18:01:24-05:00

I always Heard, that until you completed Marine Boot Camp you were not a Marine
and when they got Booted out, they were at one time considered a "Baby Blue Marine"... CBS's Dan Rather was One...

Response by LCpl Kenneth Bean made Mar 8 at 2017 6:53 PM

2017-03-08T18:53:27-05:00

Thanks to all of you for sharing your opinions.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Mar 8 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-03-08T19:00:59-05:00

What does the 'Department, Component and Branch' say on your DD Form 214 OR who issues your retirement checks, LCpl Kenneth Bean?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2017 7:11 PM

2017-03-08T19:11:04-05:00

Obviously I'm a Soldier so I say this from our perspective. We had a guy break in BCT, it wasn't his fault, he wasn't a shammer, he wanted to be there, it just happened because life sucks and God's an asshole.

He's a good guy and I wish the world for him, I hope he and his family find happiness and fortune and their children live well and prosper. That said, and painful though it is... He didn't walk on the field with us, he's not a Soldier. Not yet... Rumor has it he's going to try again, I hope he makes it.

It's conflicting it really is, he enlisted, he shipped, he went through it and his body fucked his heart and mind. If the VA gives him everything and they give him a NDSM and do all the paperwork I'm fine with that. He didn't seem the type to go around flaunting it and saying look at me I was in the Army, like some others who purposely dropped out did.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Mar 8 at 2017 9:20 PM

2017-03-08T21:20:13-05:00

No. You don't earn the title of Marine unless you graduate recruit training. Until you graduate, your title is recruit.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 8 at 2017 11:02 PM

2017-03-08T23:02:05-05:00

Hmmm. Good question LCpl Kenneth Bean .... I believe this.... In the Army you are not a Soldier until you complete basic combat training (BCT). In the Marines you are considering a Marines when you successfully graduate from Boot Camp..... With that in mind.... I would say no.

Response by SGT Travis Holbrook made Jan 11 at 2019 9:55 PM

2019-01-11T21:55:45-05:00

I would say not.. if you do not complete training how are you considered a Marine? If you do not qualify expert at the range that doesn't make you an expert marksman does it? I think not.. (IMHO)