When the Senior Enlisted CSM of a Component repeatedly states, "We write the policy, we don't abide by it," what action would you take?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 23:49:22 -0500

Response by CPT Mark Gonzalez made Feb 1 at 2016 12:01 AM

CPT Mark Gonzalez — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:01:01 -0500

Tell them that is fine, continue spending all day writing a policy that no one is ever going to read. You cannot lead from behind a desk or by sitting on a computer all day. Control what you can and take care of your people. Don't let the hypocrites bother you.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 12:18 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:18:11 -0500

sounds like my Dad when I was a teen 'don't do what I do but do as I say'

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 12:46 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:46:19 -0500

I wonder if this CSM fakes the tape test and the PT score with a #2 pencil.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 12:51 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 00:51:02 -0500

I respect most of my E-9s, by the way, I just knew one that would not go to the 1SG to make a correction but he would go to the E-6 in question just to give him shit just because one time there was a meeting months earlier, the SSG asked the BN CMDR why we were not getting deployed to missions? The CSM had a hard-on for the the SSG from that point forward and hounded this SSG for stupid things just to F with him even though he was an outstanding soldier. That SSG left and went to another unit and is serving well and getting a few ARCOMs for his service helping soldiers. I am his personal friend so I know.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 3:11 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 03:11:35 -0500

Sounds like an "in-house" management style, where reporting issues is encouraged to a point, where it will go no higher.
The benefit to this method (for the author of it that is) is that they can quell any issues without having their boss get involved, letting them decide when to let the CG know what problems were "handled" and which were just quietly dealt with.
The problem is that it breeds nepotism and stifles transparency. If no one else sees how things are handled, the CSM becomes a tyrant who can make or break how he sees fit. That is not how it is supposed to work.
In a perfect world, the commander is the judge, the CSM is the jury, and the local commander referring charges is the prosecutor. When those roles cross-pollenate too much is when bad things start to happen.

Response by SSG Daniel Deiler made Feb 1 at 2016 6:05 AM

SSG Daniel Deiler — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 06:05:37 -0500

That reminds me of the First Sergeant I heard last week talking about his laundering practices. He has one uniform he wears during the week, 2 in his closet and 1 at the dry cleaner. As I was about to say something he followed up saying that he knew he was wrong for getting his uniform dry cleaned but didn't care because "I really like the creases...besides, who is going to say something to me for trying to look professional?" I couldn't hold back and asked him, "1SG, isn't it more professional to set the example and actually follow the rules and regulations instead of picking and choosing the ones we feel like following?"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 6:28 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 06:28:52 -0500

Then they should simply abide by them, or not make policy at all.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Feb 1 at 2016 7:46 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 07:46:18 -0500

This statement was probably made by the same CSM who ranted at enlisted for frequenting the 'wrong' barbershop on post. Unfortunately that brand of toxic leadership has somehow been carried by the system to their present position, which reflects poorly on the system for doing so. Examples of the same can be found in the pvt sector, which doesn't make it any easier to put up with them until you are able to move on or they move on maybe to early retirement. Best wishes in dealing with the individual.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 8:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 08:40:46 -0500

Most have missed the question within this discussion... "What action would YOU take-- if you heard these statements in your day to day duties while working within the same vicinity of the respective CSM in question? --- What action, if any, would you take? If you would do nothing, please share the reasoning, as I am sure many feel the same way, for the same reasons, but until we bring it to light, we enable those same reasons to keep us subjected to this type of toxic leadership. For most, I presume, you would take no action, out of fear of retaliation and many would consider such an action, up against someone at that level, even if you see them on a semi regular basis, an act of career suicide; believing wholeheartedly, your days are numbered, and anything on the outside is now in jeopardy---

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 10:58 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 10:58:51 -0500

If being a leader was easy, everyone would do it. These "Ethical Dilemmas" are true test of leaders metal. We all have seen this, the challenge is not taking the easy way out. I don't know all the specifics so I will offer general advise. These type of situations remind me of a saying one of my old 1SG's said, and it applies here. ALLWAYS take the hard RIGHT over the easy wrong. It would be easy to use statements like the one above as a "cop out" to justify not following policy, but that's not what good leaders do. They hold themselves, and Soldiers accountable for the standard. Also, technically NCOs advise and enforce. There is an Officers signature on that policy, not an NCO's. So my advice is to do the right thing, use this a tool to educate your Soldiers because they will see this type of thing again. I want to add that if there is something illegal going on, then take the appropriate action. Knowledge of illegal happenings and not taking action can end in punishment for you and him. Since I don't know what this is in reference too, I just wanted to make that statement.

SGM

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 1 at 2016 6:46 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 18:46:12 -0500

It depends on the reprucussions of the CSMs behavior and how much he/she is hurting the unit. Choose your battles wisely.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 7:09 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Feb 2016 19:09:56 -0500

That is just awesome....

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 4:09 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:09:29 -0500

I would seriously be looking at that Command structure. I'm sorry but as a retired CSM/SGM I can say I did PT with my people, did the tape test, and stood in formation with them. Yes we make the policy but we need to stand behind it also. If you fail the test or the tape you need to buckle down until you pass it or you need to step down or get out. Your Soldiers look to you to set the standards so set the STANDARDS, and do the right thing. Remember what Leadership is and Lead form the front not the rear. I am retired now but I still stand behind these words and I still stand behind the Soldier, and they can still call me night or day even though I am not in their Chain of Command of in the US Army any more I am still there for them. In or out of Uniform. SGM Miller, US Army, retired, 28 years.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Feb 2 at 2016 4:15 PM

SFC Don Ward — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:15:25 -0500

What action "would you take"? What action can you take if you're not at the top? Just remember, you hold your integrity in the palm of your hands, nobody can take it away from you unless you give it away.

Response by SPC William Beckham made Feb 2 at 2016 4:20 PM

SPC William Beckham — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 16:20:53 -0500

When it came to command level officers and nco's I would always let 1st Sgt conduct pt tests even though I was training nco

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 5:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 17:17:23 -0500

Who was the CSM that made such a poorly considered comment?

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 3 at 2016 12:30 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 03 Feb 2016 00:30:58 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member He would not be within my circle of 'friends'. That is why I wanted to be an E-9; after being a 1SG under a similar examples of poor leadership and 'don't give a crap' attitude.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Jan 25 at 2019 9:25 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:25:05 -0500

Everybody works for somebody.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 25 at 2019 9:55 PM

CPT William Jones — Fri, 25 Jan 2019 21:55:39 -0500

Inform him that no EM can write the policy. It takes a commissioned officer in a command position or one that is authorized to sign the signature block saying for th commander. However various nco’s can influence the commander and anyone can put a policy on paper for the commanders signature.

Response by SGT Sean Moore made Jan 26 at 2019 8:46 AM

SGT Sean Moore — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 08:46:12 -0500

Ha! So what else is new... they’ve been dodging their own policies and pencil whipping for years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2019 11:25 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Jan 2019 11:25:39 -0500

I'm not even sure I would do anything honestly. The fact he is showing his arse out the barn door openly is enough for me. As long as it didn't directly conflict my actions or my soldiers I can't say I would even acknowledge him outside of the necessities. Though I guess you can see if any other units need Docs and do a transfer in post. Everyone loves a doc.

Response by LCpl Jason Keiser made Jan 27 at 2019 6:17 PM

LCpl Jason Keiser — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:17:11 -0500

There does come a point that you have emraced the suck so long that you start to cause the suck, that happens after 18 or 30 years in the private sector as i have learned, there is no suck to embrace you just change jobs.

Response by SFC William Huse made Jan 27 at 2019 6:20 PM

SFC William Huse — Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:20:27 -0500

Not a CSM I would want to work for, pretty unprofessional.

Response by Cpl Jim Canning made Jan 28 at 2019 11:29 AM

Cpl Jim Canning — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 11:29:20 -0500

I remember we were in 29 Palms once, we were on a force march and stopped for lunch. Before the march, the Gunny made sure everyone's ruck was packed.

His ruck looked stuffed. Well we had taken our tucks off to eat and I had to go get the water can for the squad. Gunnys ruck was next to the can, so I got ready to move it, looked heavy. Grabbed it and almost threw it, ended up tossing myself to the ground. I let out a what the hell, ya it was stuffed, with poncho liners and toilet paper. Gunny seen me. Told me to take the water, keep my mouth shut, then bring the water can back. I did that and he then sent me to the rear on the jeep, gave some excuse that I had bad blisters.

He just didn't want me spilling the beans. The only other person who knew about the Gunnys ruck was the company driver.

Response by SFC Bill Kurtz made Jan 28 at 2019 12:07 PM

SFC Bill Kurtz — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 12:07:37 -0500

Senior officers need to tell the NCO to STFU! And that’s at a minimum. Cdrs should get them to toe the line and follow policy. That’s should. Ain’t gonna happen. Some CSM is poker buddies with the next level of command and get the pressure off them. Glad I retired after 22

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 2:46 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 14:46:34 -0500

If anyone is making that kind of statement, they should be called out by name.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 6:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 18:37:52 -0500

Who wrote that and when?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 9:23 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 21:23:25 -0500

What action can you really take? Unless you have a CO who puts a stop to such shenanigans, you cant do much. Once the God Complex for these Toddlers sets in, it's an immense amount of power for those with the temper and reasoning of a 2 year old.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2019 9:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 21:42:23 -0500

One of my very early lessons in the army was an apft failure. I have always had to work at it but hadn't learned how much yet. Anyways I was sent to remedial pt every morning. We reported directly to our CSM. She held formation gave pt and did the whole thing with us. Every day. A "do as I say not as I do" person can attain rank but are quickly spotted by their subordinates. The nco warrant or officer that does everything with the Joe's keeping the situation completely transparent is the one that commands true respect from subordinates.

Response by CWO2 Darryl Craft made Jan 29 at 2019 8:23 AM

CWO2 Darryl Craft — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 08:23:47 -0500

Sounds like a power trip. What he is doing is not leadership by example. I’ve seen it during my career, at times my crew would be so busy just keeping power and mobility to the ship to practice running for the oft, we would schedule them as the workload permitted. But you did not rub it in when you missed a date

Response by SSG Jeffrey Harper made Jan 29 at 2019 2:44 PM

SSG Jeffrey Harper — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 14:44:35 -0500

Who gonna hold a CSM accountable? No one so they can pencil whip a PT test and no one will say nothing

Response by SSG Jeffrey Harper made Jan 29 at 2019 2:49 PM

SSG Jeffrey Harper — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 14:49:04 -0500

CSM is the worst rank in the Army! They have nothing to do but harass units with BS!! I was in a unit that mandated everyone giving classes must brief the BDE CO and the CSM to be approved to give the classes!!

Response by CSM Tommy Nester made Jan 29 at 2019 7:40 PM

CSM Tommy Nester — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 19:40:51 -0500

I am lost. As A retired CSM I obeyed the policies that were in place. If they needed to be changed we changed them. As the enforcer of the policies you need to set the example.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2019 9:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jan 2019 21:39:17 -0500

Lol... Glad I’m retired! No CSM, SGM, 1SG, or officers.

Response by SGT Bj Anderson made Jan 30 at 2019 10:24 AM

SGT Bj Anderson — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:24:10 -0500

I was spoiled with all my CSM's being living legends like Camocho and Purdy. They didn't need to be taped or worry about them doing PT with the Rakkasans. They set the standard and was the example enlisted and junior officers strived to be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 1:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:30:04 -0500

I was deployed with my guard unit a few years back as an E6 and got pulled aside in the chow hall by 3 active duty 1SGs asking me why my side burns were out of reg. Reg states to the lowest portion of the ear opening, they said it was to the middle of the ear. I told them what unit I was from, who my SMaj was...and told them they were more than welcome to stop by. They never showed up. In this case, they either knew the reg and didn’t care, or just didn’t know it at all. If you want to push a reg/policy, fine, but you better know it correctly, and you better be leading by example in implementing it as well.

Response by 1SG Robert Wempe made Jan 31 at 2019 7:25 PM

1SG Robert Wempe — Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:25:45 -0500

This is why many of the Soldiers today have lost respect for the rank and position of CSM. I am a retired 1SG and I have seen it first hand when it came to DUI and the Army height and weight. But I have also seen that CSM that will stand side by side with you and spray lead down range at the enemy. You have to pick and choose your battles, and know the person you are battling. Learn from it, take the good and put in your kit bag, but remember the bad so you don't become that. The senior NCO or officer that can not abide by rules and regulations is toxic, and their time will come, seen that on multiple occasions too. You just do right, those soldiers under you interact with you far more and will learn from you

Response by CSM Danny Dean made Feb 1 at 2019 5:46 PM

CSM Danny Dean — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 17:46:59 -0500

To my disappointment, there are some CSMs out there who forgot (or never learned) that it is all about the goal and not about the role. Seems to be more now than before.
The comment that "we make policy, we don't abide by it" could not be more off the military core values. The value of the CSM is based on that leader's absolute commitment to the unit readiness and the welfare of the Soldiers. When I was a young Soldier, the CSM was the ideal, the epitome of the enlisted leader. We knew and respected that they were the standard bearer...for enlisted, for officers, and most importantly for themselves. We young Soldiers (and no one else) did not mess with the CSM but we also knew the CSM had our back.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2019 6:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 18:20:57 -0500

Depends on my position. If I were his commander, I'd take him aside and counsel him and let him know that I expect him to set the example. If not, I'd inform his commander and ask if he was okay with this.

Response by SGT Zac Roberts made Feb 2 at 2019 4:14 AM

SGT Zac Roberts — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 04:14:12 -0500

I’d look at what value that csm brings to the organization. If his value is his weight and run time then ok... dude’s wrong. I’m betting it’s not. I’m also will to bet there was a point in his career when he could outrun, outtape, and outfuck most of the formation. Experience is a bitch. Shut up and listen to good seniors. Bad seniors? Fuck em, call them out in all ways.

Response by CPO Jack De Merit made Feb 2 at 2019 4:03 PM

CPO Jack De Merit — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 16:03:48 -0500

That sounds exactly like the Senate and Congress. They don't have the same medical requirements, tax paying or legal obligations that they enacted for the rest of us. They appear to be immune because they made it that way. That is also why they get such generous retirement benefits after only a partial term in office.

Response by Capt Joseph Barron made Feb 3 at 2019 9:48 PM

Capt Joseph Barron — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 21:48:25 -0500

Sounds like Congress

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2019 11:58 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 23:58:21 -0500

If I was in the NCO Support Chain we would have a very detailed conversation and mentoring session. Immediately following that session the NCO would be tested to ensure he is within standards. Next, I would speak to the NCO’s CDR and would ensure if his attitude or lack of meeting the standards continued that it would be in written counseling, letter of concern and then followed up on his NCOER. Unacceptable!

When I was first promoted to Sergeant I was told from this point on I had to lead from the front and exceed the standards. Nothing has changed for me and many of my peers as we progressed in rank. This particular NCO appears to be lazy and needs to retire or be dealt with accordingly.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2019 6:14 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 18:14:44 -0500

Having worked at the command level in a mission essential/mission critical job I can tell you that there are honestly exceptions to some regulations and waivers are granted. However there is a process for that and usually that waiver is considered carefully because there was or is some other reason for that regulation otherwise existing and written as it is and it saying what it says. So an answer like the above even by a CSM of a component really smacks of something else and a lot less than an exception to policy or a regulation being waived and I am afraid I would have to question it if it fell in my area of responsibility and duties. Individuals at that level that operate like the above usually at some point run or get into trouble and are forced to take a right turn or even in some cases shorten their careers and might even end up being taken to task and kicked out and rightfully so. There is an old saying that "Absolute power absolutely corrupts" and an example like what you have referenced here is an example of that I think. During my 11 years of working at that command level I only encountered a couple of individuals (general officer or command senior enlisted) who operated like this or with something like that in mind. Instead most were quite dynamic, excellent communicators, and good leaders and managers who would never resort to a statement like this to explain something or avoid explaining something. In one of those two cases where I did and it affected me then I used the written regulations and stated and established policies along with the IG complaint system to fight them and what they were doing or advocating and so I think that is where something like this should go. In the end they were forced to take a right turn and were later transferred to a base level organization rather than staying at the command level and being considered for a military service wide enlisted adviser slot.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 18 at 2019 1:35 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 01:35:01 -0500

It really depends. The statement, in and of itself, is extremely ill-advised, but nothing more (IMHO). However, it would put me on alert of this "leader's" hypocrisy. Once I had tangible evidence of same, I would bring it up the chain for action (provided I believed the action in question was actionable - telling Soldiers to stay off his grass while he is standing in it is just being a @$$hole, but insisting on chapters for overweight Soldiers while taping out at 30% (male) is actionable). EVERYONE in the Army has a boss. And if the boss is in on it, go to THEIR boss.....

The key here is evidence. Ill-advised statements, ESPECIALLY ill-advised statements that only you heard (if that is the case) will do nothing but make your life worse.

Response by SCPO Edward Westerdahl made Feb 20 at 2019 10:21 PM

SCPO Edward Westerdahl — Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:21:20 -0500

The CSM needs a little peer-to-peer counseling. The standard that civilian companies are working toward is ISO 9000, which makes sure they have process documents to cover all operations, and that they are being followed.
The CSM’s “do as I say, not as I do” policy doesn’t wash any more. As we used to say in Nam, “It’s not good enough to talk the talk, you’ve got to walk the walk too.”

Response by SSG Stephen Sears made Feb 21 at 2019 1:33 PM

SSG Stephen Sears — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 13:33:40 -0500

Way to go

Response by SrA James Cannon made Feb 21 at 2019 3:32 PM

SrA James Cannon — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 15:32:19 -0500

Basically this is "do as I say, not as I do." This is the sign of a very poor leader. Rank and postion do not make one a good leader.

Response by CMSgt Gary Fichman made Feb 21 at 2019 11:15 PM

CMSgt Gary Fichman — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 23:15:18 -0500

I would review the individuals qualifications for compliance with current policy. If were not compliant, I would give them a grace period to obtain required quals. If they did not meet standards remove them from their position. I was a MAJCOM functional manager (CMSgt) & maintained ALL qualifications required for my AFSC.

Response by CPO Robert Bernish made Feb 22 at 2019 8:52 AM

CPO Robert Bernish — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:52:32 -0500

I'd advise that such a tenuous excuse for leadership has no place in a well functioning military command structure... Congress might be a better career choice for that style of unaccountable nonsense.

Response by LCDR Mike Scott Singh made Feb 22 at 2019 10:21 AM

LCDR Mike Scott Singh — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:21:58 -0500

I started out in the Army at Ft Bragg an Instructor for the Special Forces School at Ranger Committee. My position was slotted for Capt/Maj, it gave me great pleasure teaching young officers to lead by example and always let their subordinates critique their objectives.

Response by Sgt Fernando Urena made Feb 23 at 2019 9:04 PM

Sgt Fernando Urena — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 21:04:09 -0500

Start banging his daughter

Response by Sgt Donald Daugherty made Feb 24 at 2019 4:46 PM

Sgt Donald Daugherty — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 16:46:12 -0500

Geeezzzzzz… this was why I left the military. The people in charge never followed the rules that I was expected to follow. I was a good-doobie and followed all the rules too.... but the senior NCO's violated them all of the time and then used them to literally hang junior enlisted all of the time.

But looking back with hindsight, they are only following the examples that were most likely given to them.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2019 11:11 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Feb 2019 23:11:49 -0500

You need to go up the chain but make sure you have all the facts and anyone else with the same issue, If you dont get any answers, see legal, next is you congressman

Response by SFC Becky Ostwald made Feb 25 at 2019 8:06 AM

SFC Becky Ostwald — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 08:06:28 -0500

Get rid of him. He is violating the policies left and right.

Response by SGM J Bergquist made Feb 25 at 2019 1:22 PM

SGM J Bergquist — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:22:46 -0500

Sure sounds like things have gone Communist! It's like making a law and saying it only for the peasants but not the ruling class!!!

Response by Maj Neal Jackman made Feb 25 at 2019 1:43 PM

Maj Neal Jackman — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:43:13 -0500

I was once marked down on a FitRep in the Corps because my BDU uniform did not look as good as another Captain's. Regs prohibited starching at that time. I mentioned this and asked if I was being directed to starch my BDUs. I was told no, just make sure I looked as sharp as he did. The Major was drinking a glass of wine aboard ship at the time. Regs didn't seem to matter much to him. Mostly I was upset he didn't offer me some. LOL

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Feb 27 at 2019 1:00 PM

PO1 Richard Norton — Wed, 27 Feb 2019 13:00:25 -0500

Take it up above him/her. Policy is for everyone in the command.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2019 5:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 17:50:31 -0400

Command Sgt. Major Angelia Flournoy found this out the hard way...she was that type of leader...she would bully people of lesser rank and file complaints with EO and such against those of Higher. It took Soldiers going to WTF moments to bring light on her and the Sargent Major of the Army to finally stop her ludicrous reign. They then tried to call out the Soldiers, to cover thier own Asses for letting her get away with it for so long, I know Soldier who suffered under her leadership and noone did anything until they went outside the Army for answers.

Response by MSgt Denise Smith made Mar 27 at 2019 7:41 PM

MSgt Denise Smith — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 19:41:52 -0400

I would definitely be tempted to ask him what his definition of integrity is because making a statement like that shows he has no idea what it means or looks like. He is definitely a E-9 and not a real "Chief"/Sergeant Major" and doesn't deserve his position. A true senior enlisted leader leads by example with integrity not do as I say not as I do.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2019 12:57 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 12:57:03 -0400

While on a deployment to "Candyland" Kandahar, we were tasked with patrolling the food court area making sure the Major Generals base orders were unforced; glow belt and eye pro. Army warriors know the drill. As much as I disagree with wearing a glow belt near a combat zone, those are the rules! This huge entourage pulls up with O3's-O6's with the Major General. Some were in compliance and some weren't to include the man himself. I render the proper greeting of the day and block their entrance and tell them IAW Base order (fill in the blank) they are required to wear glow belts and eye pro. His response, "Sgt I know! I F'ing wrote the order!". I just replied "Sir I'm a SSgt and sorry sir, I can't let you in then." He got pissed obviously and threatened to kick us off of the base. Luckly my SgtMaj was there to back me up. They got back in their Tahoes and went to grab their PPE. The next day the CSM came by motivated as hell. Shook my hand telling me good job saying, "I love it!" looked at my SgtMaj and said "We've got stars too, but ours are proctected by chevrons." Unfortunately the Marines were not allowed to stand that watch anymore. It was a great learning tool for my Marines to show them how to tactifully correct a superior.

Response by SSG Jayne Reed made Mar 28 at 2019 11:21 PM

SSG Jayne Reed — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 23:21:01 -0400

"Interesting, Sergeant Major. Maybe the second stupidest thing I've ever heard, but *very* interesting..."

Response by SSG George Duncan made Mar 31 at 2019 3:35 PM

SSG George Duncan — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:35:20 -0400

put in for a transfer

Response by SGT Brad Baier made Mar 31 at 2019 3:56 PM

SGT Brad Baier — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:56:41 -0400

I always hate when a superior at any level of military or civilian workforce says, " do as I say not as I do". You lead by example and I've always believed in this statement. I would never ask anyone to do something I wouldn't do, or haven't done myself. Follow the regulations or see about getting them changed so everyone can follow the new regulations.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Mar 31 at 2019 11:37 PM

SSG Jess Peters — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:37:41 -0400

I would fire him immediately. I will never forget the corruption of CSM Woolridge. He gave the Army a black eye that should never be forgotten. The position he holds should set a superior example to the NCO Corp and the American people. Only the highest standards are acceptable.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Apr 1 at 2019 2:46 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 02:46:18 -0400

Sorry csm. I out rank you. My name is chief.

Response by CPL Cary Scott Thrasher made Apr 1 at 2019 8:57 AM

CPL Cary Scott Thrasher — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 08:57:37 -0400

Unfortunately this appears to be the norm rather than the exception

Response by SSG Rick Miller made Apr 1 at 2019 10:11 AM

SSG Rick Miller — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 10:11:45 -0400

What action would I take? As an NCO, calling the CSM on his bullshit would be career suicide. Maybe cowardice on my part, but there it is. I'd make sure my troops knew that what they were witnessing from the CSM was a classic example of how not to be a leader. I'd also respect the rank, but for damn sure not the man.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Apr 3 at 2019 2:25 PM

Jerry Rivas — Wed, 03 Apr 2019 14:25:51 -0400

Start with chain of command and go right the hell over his head.

Response by SSG Samuel Kermon made Apr 5 at 2019 6:08 AM

SSG Samuel Kermon — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 06:08:57 -0400

Replace the CSM!
Soldiers expect the senior NCOs, and officers, to set an example and lead. If they don't the unit will reflect the attitude that is shown.

Response by PO1 Ronald Parker made Apr 7 at 2019 1:50 PM

PO1 Ronald Parker — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:50:50 -0400

Just nod politely and carry on. It will catch up to him. It may not happen where anybody knows it happened but he will be told about it.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 2:21 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 14:21:57 -0400

None. Nothing you can do about bad leadership at high levels. Practically everyone who isn't some kind of jerk knows that is a stupid thing for a (alleged) leader to say. Just don't be that guy when you're selected to higher leadership position.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Apr 8 at 2019 9:24 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:24:55 -0400

Not really enough information to assess this correctly. However I might just say to CSM " hope you don't maintain that policy when Soldiers make mistakes CSM."

Response by CSM Rick Mathis made Apr 29 at 2019 5:20 PM

CSM Rick Mathis — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 17:20:03 -0400

I would have NO RESPECT for this enlisted person. NONE.!

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made May 1 at 2019 1:22 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Wed, 01 May 2019 13:22:45 -0400

I had a 1SG who always said "Do as I say. Not as I do". I'm sure we all knew a leader like that at one time or another. As to what to do about it, good luck on calling them out on it. Although it might be easier to do that now a days. But back in the 80's not so much, and sure even further back not so much, too. Don't know.

Response by SFC James Welch made May 2 at 2019 12:09 PM

SFC James Welch — Thu, 02 May 2019 12:09:27 -0400

As an NCO you are supposed to lead by example. However, I was in Europe when the first Camouflage Uniform , the BDU’s, came out. We were told they Crete wash and wear, no starch was to be used. A couple of weeks later our Division Commander, along with his Aide and the CSM came to visit. Yep, all starch and creases! I had a very difficult time trying to explain that to my Platoon/Section! (Of course, they had all pockets sewed shut along with that as well)!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 3 at 2019 5:23 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 03 May 2019 17:23:55 -0400

Focus your energy on those you lead those you can influence those you can mentor and yourself don’t spend any time on Those not in those categories

Response by Marlene Hessler made May 5 at 2019 4:38 PM

Marlene Hessler — Sun, 05 May 2019 16:38:13 -0400

Likely would just wait. Sounds like pride comes before the fall and this one sounds more than ready for the big decline.

Response by CMDCM Tom Vinson made May 11 at 2019 4:40 PM

CMDCM Tom Vinson — Sat, 11 May 2019 16:40:28 -0400

A "do as I say, not as I do" type of leader is the worst possible kind and one to avoid at all costs in your career. As a Command Master Chief in the Navy, it was my job to help craft the rules, enforce the rules, and above all follow the ruled. Leading from the from this a lonely place, but a necessary place. If a senior enlisted leader can't or won't do that, or believes their position allows them to be exempt then they need to be replaced and retired from service.

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made May 18 at 2019 9:22 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Sat, 18 May 2019 09:22:07 -0400

I’d ask the person - “If one or more people are exempt from the policy, why does the policy not specifically say so?” Then I would add - “If the policy does not say anything like that, then no one - including you - is exempt and you’re just hiding the fact that you consider yourself ‘above the law’”.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made May 19 at 2019 9:52 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 19 May 2019 09:52:24 -0400

Hubris has led to more than one man's downfall. I am willing to bet the CSM would never dream of making that comment to his BC. Personally, why worry what the other guy/gal is doing or saying as long as you are doing the right thing and setting the proper example for the folks you influence/lead. The only time I would challenge a superior (in rank) is if he or she ordered me or someone else to do something that was illegal. I even spoke to the Commanding General (in the privacy of his office) that what he wanted done was not the best approach because of the serious ramification involved. (Criticism has many approaches.)

Response by SPC Cesar Freytes made May 23 at 2019 6:17 PM

SPC Cesar Freytes — Thu, 23 May 2019 18:17:19 -0400

We are here to defend democracy not practice it. Welcome to the Army. But then again the new army gets time outs when they are stressed and it looks like the new senior NCOS are just as wimpy as the new troops, the purpose of my comment is discipline is the mission here no matter the era.

Response by SPC Cesar Freytes made May 24 at 2019 6:05 PM

SPC Cesar Freytes — Fri, 24 May 2019 18:05:46 -0400

CSM is god who gives a damn what you think..... I say go against him or her see what you get I'm surprised you made E-6. I'm amazed at this new army

Response by SGT David Honeycutt made Jun 8 at 2019 1:14 AM

SGT David Honeycutt — Sat, 08 Jun 2019 01:14:53 -0400

It has been and probably will Always be "Do as I Say and NOT as I Do" It comes from Rank has its privileges and that the lower ranks are the ones that need to learn by doing. It is not something I particularly believe in but It has Some merit.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Jun 9 at 2019 7:06 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 19:06:02 -0400

punch him in the nuts.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2019 9:19 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 21:19:21 -0400

Houston we a problem

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2019 9:28 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Jun 2019 21:28:47 -0400

I would take this soldier aside and explain in terms he or she understood that all personnel will follow the policies handed down from a higher command authority. We may make local policies but we are also for setting the example by abiding to the fullest extent to them.

Response by SSG Eldon Eldred made Jun 29 at 2019 9:32 PM

SSG Eldon Eldred — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 21:32:02 -0400

I was in a process of trying to continue active duty. There was a combined effort from a few in my command to prevent that from happening. Once I received my NCOER, I questioned the remark made about a event that occurred, but per regulation there was to be a written counseling statement to back it up. I appealed to the CSM of the battalion. Smirk on his face told me it wasn't going to go per regulation. His reply, "Yes you are correct SSG, but again we don't really have to follow the regulation in every case. You are the case.". 6 months later, he wrote my final NCOER, all 5's and I was walking on water next to the road guard for Jesus. Yep, they will do what they want, when they want, and then dare you to do something about it. 10 yrs later, I ended up working at the DOD IG and become smoking buddy with several investigators. One was ready to open a investigation when I related the story to her. Had to tell her, it was over 10 yrs since it happened. Of course, why didn't you call our HOTLINE. Lots of resources out there, but again, do you shoot yourself in the foot, so you can sit down and eat lunch with them?

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jun 30 at 2019 1:47 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 01:47:52 -0400

there's a saying that leaders are made by learning from other great leaders or some bullshit like that. Leaders lead some piece of paper don't mean shit to anyone. I understand AR 600 blah blah blah... I showed up in uniform and went home wearing a uniform. Overseas is COMPLETELY different than back in the states and Joe's need to know what is ok and what's not ok. I hated knowing that I had just got home, I was getting out but I still had to perform the same stupid shit the unit was doing even though it meant nothing to anyone or the training NCO. Lead from the front and you'll never have the issue... even if guys are ETS'ing

Response by 1SG James Magsayo made Jun 30 at 2019 11:54 AM

1SG James Magsayo — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:54:42 -0400

When Senior NCO's start saying things like this, it does weaken the link of the enlisted command structure. As a high time 1SG, I put aside personal gain by refusing to promoted beyond a First Sergeant simply because I could influence the soldiers at all levels. Saying we don't have to abide by the policies we write, isn't a leader leading by example. He's a man with authority sayings "it's okay to bully"! It's leadership without structure or merit!

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 30 at 2019 2:39 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:39:05 -0400

I would use him as a shitbag example of lack of integrity and an example of what not to do. It's not like I could drop the guy, so that's about it.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Jun 30 at 2019 11:28 PM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 23:28:42 -0400

This is the reason I h8ed most CSMs.

Response by 1SG John Highfill made Jul 3 at 2019 6:15 PM

1SG John Highfill — Wed, 03 Jul 2019 18:15:49 -0400

Keep s stiff upper lip you know snd he knows we all follow the same rules

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2019 6:54 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jul 2019 18:54:35 -0400

Policy is the standard!!!!!! NCO’s enforce the standards. If you are taking the easy left vs the hard right, then you are not a leader of Troops and should not be in a leadership position. All it takes is for someone to notice an infraction and who do you think the issue will go too??? You guessed the NCO’s responsible of that Unit.........

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2019 9:03 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:03:06 -0400

That sounds like there is too much of an influence from politicians in his actions. And that's a major reason that I'm not renewing my contract. The military was never supposed to be about politics, it was never supposed to be a few above the law. Everyone was supposed to be under the same rules and all following the same regulations, not a few above the law and forgetting the regulations. Too much of that crap going on in the country and the world today.

Response by COL Ralph Bryan Hanes made Jul 3 at 2019 10:53 PM

COL Ralph Bryan Hanes — Wed, 03 Jul 2019 22:53:58 -0400

Leaders are expected to lead by example. Period. There are perks that go with rank, however, flagrant disdain for rules and regulations cannot be tolerated. Falling on your sword to correct a senior NCO is not in your best interest. His commander likely is already aware of the situation. A relatively innocent sounding leading question in a public forum might cause him to shoot himself in the foot. At worst, take the lesson and chalk it up to a characteristic you will avoid at all costs. There are times and places for everything. Elsewhere in this thread are some good examples of when and how to legally and ethically allow common sense to over-rule a regulation or other guidance on an ad hoc basis. Frequently disregarding the same reg is likely to put you in serious jeopardy. I doubt that any of the responses you received are new to you. The question is valid and good food for thought.

Response by CAPT Carlos Flanagan made Jul 4 at 2019 2:49 PM

CAPT Carlos Flanagan — Thu, 04 Jul 2019 14:49:40 -0400

I would say that there is more to the story than you are telling us. Issues like these are rarely so simple as one way or the other.

Response by SSG Marco Mancilla made Jul 5 at 2019 1:29 PM

SSG Marco Mancilla — Fri, 05 Jul 2019 13:29:08 -0400

what can you do, you are bound by your rank, it is weather you can tell him he is a disgrace to our uniform or say nothing.

Response by CSM Michael L. Mullenix made Jul 5 at 2019 2:52 PM

CSM Michael L. Mullenix — Fri, 05 Jul 2019 14:52:21 -0400

If you lead by example as I did then you obey ALL regs. I liked being with the troops and gained their respect.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2019 1:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 01:54:33 -0400

Follow the orders of the Officers above you (NonComs as well), contact your branch and beg for a transfer or PCS. Otherwise there isn't much you can do at your rank. With over 36 years of active and reserve duty, I've seen their kind come and go. When you get to the CSM level, just don't be a dick like him.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 6 at 2019 9:23 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 09:23:09 -0400

If a policy is created but it is not followed, then it is a bad policy. It's a catch 22 scenario. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't follow the policy.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Jul 7 at 2019 2:47 AM

1SG Michael Farrell — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 02:47:17 -0400

Senior Enlisted CSM of a component? I assume we're talking SMA and his peers in the other branches of service. Well, that's a lot different than a company First Sergeant, but I appreciate SSG Deiiler's honesty, especially if it was his First Sergeant. If it is a Service Senior Enlisted Advisor I think it's actually time for either a DAIG complaint or possibly a Congressional. That's just too important to not elevate, but any level short of the top will probably be lost in the bureaucracy. I happen to believe that if the senior people can't abide by the policy, why in the hell do they expect junior people to do so?
And, I remember spit shining jump boots and pulling on BDUs that were completely totally verboten to have starched or pressed. Frankly, I set aside some time on the weekend to spit shine my boots, so it wasn't a big deal and putting on a clean and fresh set of BDUs daily was kind of nice.

Response by LTC Donell Kelly made Jul 7 at 2019 1:22 PM

LTC Donell Kelly — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 13:22:34 -0400

If the CSM of a component feels free to make that statement, there is something seriously wrong with the Command Climate. If a senior officer in that command did not report their concerns up/outside the chain of command, they’re derelict in their duty, & they’re NOT taking care of their soldiers!

Response by GySgt Thomas Vick made Jul 7 at 2019 1:35 PM

GySgt Thomas Vick — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 13:35:57 -0400

If you betray yourself, at some point no one will have any respect for you.

Response by SGT Glenn E Moody made Jul 7 at 2019 7:59 PM

SGT Glenn E Moody — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 19:59:54 -0400

I have seen this all the time in my military time. it is in the form as do as I say not as I do. best to just follow your orders. 1st SGT to CSM make the company rules. they are the go between the enlisted & the officers. now as an Civilian I still say it DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO.

Response by LTC Raymond Buenteo made Jul 8 at 2019 1:18 PM

LTC Raymond Buenteo — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:18:12 -0400

The 1SG works for the CDR. The conduct of or performance of the 1SG is in his/her lane. You should refer your concerns up the chain to the CDR.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2019 9:52 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 Jul 2019 09:52:49 -0400

I would ask, "Sergeant Major, if I told my squad that I don't abide by the rules I set for the squad, what would you say to me?"

That's all that needs to be said.

Response by PO2 Skip Kirkwood made Jul 15 at 2019 11:27 PM

PO2 Skip Kirkwood — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 23:27:12 -0400

Roll my eyeballs, denoting loss of all respect for this weak excuse of a leader.
If in a position to do something about it (like being the component CO), fire the dumb ass ASAP.

Response by CSM John Mead made Jul 29 at 2019 12:53 AM

CSM John Mead — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 00:53:43 -0400

I'm hoping that this post is fictitious, because 1. I never met a fellow CSM who would ever make such a ridiculous statement, 2. The CSM does not make policy. Like the 1SGs below him, he enforces the commander's policies. Of course, a good senior NCO would offer opinion and advice to said policies. There are several LTCs making comments out there contrary to what I've written and what I know. Perhaps you've been associated with a few CSMs who were below par. I find it unprofessional to berate a few at the expense of many, especially on a forum open to soldiers of all grades. Do not call me a milsap or weak knee because I've called you out. I will not insult you in such a fashion, but will chastise you for an unforgivable lack of courtesy.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Aug 11 at 2019 8:30 PM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Sun, 11 Aug 2019 20:30:44 -0400

Fortunately I'm no longer on active duty. NCOs and Officers who pulled this in my day were usually given enough rope to hang themselves and I made sure it happened.

Response by SPC Brandon Shipp made Aug 13 at 2019 12:42 PM

SPC Brandon Shipp — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 12:42:40 -0400

Probably old school. I was in when BDUs were still a thing. You didn't show up to formation without your uniform pressed and starched, boots shined. If you did, all hell broke loose and your NCOs made your life miserable for atleast a month

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Aug 14 at 2019 6:22 PM

SPC Nancy Greene — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 18:22:30 -0400

Contact the Office of the Inspector General and make sure you have documentation and/or witnesses to back up your complaint and assist in their investigation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2019 9:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 09:03:23 -0400

It is simple.. Ask what policies they do follow and the ones they don't. Then proceed with asking questions on why do they do not feel they need to follow the policies they are sworn to enforce. Some arguments are worth the fight and some are not. In order to be a leader one must continue to learn something new everyday and apply to their leadership style in some way, form, or fashion. CSM are not exempt form no policies; instead they are a beacon of what right is supposed to be always. Just reminded them that we all are looking to see what we are supposed to do and what we can get away with. So they cant throw the book at you if they are doing dirt and trying to correct you or your Soldiers.

Response by CMSgt Frank Dailey made Aug 15 at 2019 10:34 AM

CMSgt Frank Dailey — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:34:17 -0400

As a CSM I would be the last person to say or do it that. If I heard a fellow E9 say that I would ask why are your writing the policy? What is the reason for it? If I were junior I would seek out at trusted SNCO and ask the Question... If I were a Officer we would talk behind closed doors. If you ignore bad behavior it becomes the norm and then everyone has to deal with the aftermath. Most likely if I were the Superior CSM and heard that I would say it was time for the ROAD WARRIOR to retire.

Response by MAJ Peter Fraser made Aug 15 at 2019 3:42 PM

MAJ Peter Fraser — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 15:42:10 -0400

Since policy is generated at the top and flows down, how can anyone expect compliance if it is not followed by those who set it. Studies at The Case Western Reserve Graduate Management Course show that those who are expected to carry out and implement policy change in a structured entity, will not implement any policy and will in effect cause the policy to be changed unless the policy is implements from the bottom up. In other words, if those at the bottom who implement the policy do not see it being embraced by those who are generating it. the policy will be doomed.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2019 10:00 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Aug 2019 22:00:41 -0400

This could be the attitude that we look for desperately in leaders, depending on what he meant. Most have interpreted this to mean that we don’t follow the rules, we do what we want. Given the position of the speaker, I think it more likely (but not certain) that he meant the policy is not The Word of God—it is something that leaders wrote for the good of the service, and as leaders (especially at the highest level of the service), if the policy is no longer good for the service we can change it. The policy serves us, not the other way around. If that is what he meant, that type of leadership is exactly what is needed.

Response by SFC William Allen made Aug 17 at 2019 8:10 PM

SFC William Allen — Sat, 17 Aug 2019 20:10:13 -0400

I'd write to the Advocate General's office and maybe my Congressman. There is always a way to report attitude like this up the chain of command. Talk to the Chaplain if you have to.

Response by SPC Mark Stevens made Aug 19 at 2019 11:11 PM

SPC Mark Stevens — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 23:11:12 -0400

As lower enlisted, you follow instructions until instructed otherwise lol

Response by BG Jim Drago made Aug 25 at 2019 10:52 PM

BG Jim Drago — Sun, 25 Aug 2019 22:52:00 -0400

Make a vow to yourself to work your ass off to get to a point you can fix it, then do it
. This person sounds like a politician CSM with lots of knee pads and little concern for what the rank means. . Oh, I’m sorry, did I reveal my number one pet peeve ???? Seriously, toxic jumps to mind and the fact you are concern speaks loudly and well for you. Sorry I don’t have a good solution

Response by 1SG Byron Williamson made Sep 10 at 2019 5:58 PM

1SG Byron Williamson — Tue, 10 Sep 2019 17:58:08 -0400

Everything goes back to LDRSHIP! The CSM should live by the standards that he is sworn to enforce. When I was stationed in South Korea I had a 1SG that would try to abuse his authority. I was an E-7 at the time running my own detachment 20-miles away from the unit. My Soldiers and I had to attend rehearsals for a Change of Command Ceremony with our entire company. I always enforced the standards to my Soldiers; so, their uniform had to be squared away, boots highly shined, etc. During the rehearsal, the 1SG approached one of my Soldiers and told him that he was going to get his boots dirty by cutting grass after the ceremony. My Soldier had a look on his face like (are you serious 1SG, what did I do wrong?). Then, the 1SG looked at me and says, your Soldiers don't think they have to answer to me. I responded, "that's not the case, they never see you because we're always away on our camp; but, they know you're the 1SG". The 1SG then tells me to get in the push-up position in front of the entire company. My response, "Negative 1SG, that's not going to happen"! Then I quoted a line from the Creed of The Non-Commissioned Officer......"I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit or personal safety"! At that moment, he lost his power base in front of everyone that was on the field.

As leaders, we are not above the standards, we are too uphold and enforce them! If you don't enforce the standards; you have just created a new one!

Response by MSG Brenda Neal made Sep 15 at 2019 7:39 AM

MSG Brenda Neal — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:39:14 -0400

Pray for a little old lady to come and hit him on the back of the head with her cane. Influence is everything.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2019 2:40 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 14:40:19 -0400

Just sad. As a healthcare officer I've come to realize that not much is expected of us, regarding Military customs and courtesy by the rest of the "real" Army but I am unwilling to slip into that mold and do the best I can to not only establish policy but live by it as well. As an older officer it is difficult, physically, most of the time but that does not stop me from trying especially when it's non physical related. I post the Army Values on my office wall and on my door; I live by them and expect those I lead to live by them. Living and teaching Army Values would correct a lot of problems at all levels.

Response by PO1 Don Rowan made Sep 16 at 2019 8:47 AM

PO1 Don Rowan — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 08:47:36 -0400

Smile and let him/her gum flap. Karma will eventually bite.

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Sep 25 at 2019 11:20 AM

MSgt Brian Williams — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:20:15 -0400

I would probably ask which policies are we not to abide so that if and when I get called on to the carpet I can refer to your directions given today with everyone as my witness.

Response by 1SG Nelson Alequin made Dec 4 at 2019 3:44 PM

1SG Nelson Alequin — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 15:44:04 -0500

Being retired for over 13 years now, I often look back to ponder about all the experiences I've had while serving. I have met people from all walks of life and experiences. Every now then I ran into individuals who out ranked me with the same bad habits as the CSM in this forum. The most important thing I learned from these individuals was to focus on my lane and control the things that you can control. Criticizing these individuals did nothing but allow you to lose focus on your lane. Look at these faults as development opportunities and apply them towards the creation of your leadership traits by ensuring you the tough right instead of the easy wrong.

Response by CSM Rick Mathis made Jan 26 at 2020 7:14 PM

CSM Rick Mathis — Sun, 26 Jan 2020 19:14:24 -0500

I would have no respect for this person. " Do as a l
Say.....Not as I should do."
!