Where can I find information on the ROTC Medical Profile Regulations/Procedures?

Ann Christensen — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:16:03 -0400

I have few questions about medical profiles and ROTC.
My solider was physically assaulted, by a civilian, which resulted in a back injury and she was given a medical profile by her doctor. Charges were filed and the person who assaulted my solider plead guilty. So, my questions are: 1) Is it common for the Cadre to constantly ask the solider when they are going to be off profile or give the solider a hard time for being on a medical profile 2) My solider still attended PT but couldn't participate, attended lab classes, and completed all of assigned cadet duties given. A few classes were missed due to physical therapy or doctor appointments. However; the grades given were a C and a C- and my solider was given the reason of well you were on medical profile and there is no way to prove that you had an injury or that the assault caused such a bad injury. My solider offered the police and court papers, which the Cadre said didn't matter, gave her medical letters to the Cadre multiple times, along with medical letters from the physical therapist and the solider was told it didn't matter there was no proof. The solider was even threatened, by a MS, to have their contact taken away because of being on a medical profile. When the solider brought it to the LTC the solider was basically told to suck it up and grow a thicker skin. My solider is also in the Army National Guard and they accepted the medical profile and have not done any of what the ROTC Cadre are doing and continue to do. 3) Why is it the no one, Cadre or other officers the solider has spoken to, seem to know the procedures or regulations/articles for medical profiles? 4) Where does one find the regulations or articles for medical profiles for Army/ROTC.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 12:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:32:22 -0400

Whether it's a military profile from a med det or a civilian profile from a civilian doc, the limitations of the individual and the effective dates of the limitations are clearly stated. If it's a temporary military profile, DA Form 3349, then section 3, block 19 has the expiration.

AR 40-501 is the reg that covers Standards of Medical Fitness and should have the information your soldier needs.
The AR 40 covers all medical stuff and they're all viewable on APD.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 23 at 2018 1:14 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:14:57 -0400

Okay, first off, it is "soldier" not "solider". You are in college, you should know this.
Second, you guys are not soldiers, you are cadets, word your question as such.
Third, yes, often times, even on active duty, leaders will ask often when the profile is up so that they can plan accordingly. They ask often because they forget. It is a good idea to make a copy of the profile and turn it into the proper leadership so that they have all of the information on hand.
As for the grades in classes, C's are awful. Regardless of an injury, the student should have made arrangements to complete their work.
As for not "believing" how the injury was sustained. Sounds like your cadre are morons. However, that being said, perhaps ROTC has a different standard for medical profiles than the NG unit does.
If your cadet really wants to get to the bottom of this I would advise picking up a regulation that should be available at the unit and do some actual reading. If they can prove that they are right then it should be fine. Worst case scenario, they find that the cadre are correct and then they are shit out of luck.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 1:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:34:10 -0400

I can tell you from both from my own personal experience and from my professional experience that this is not going to be a battle easily won. I would highly recommend speaking to all of the following individuals, but ensure to use the chain of command:
1. Medical Officer
2. JAG Officer
3. IG Officer
If absolutely necessary, file a Congressional Investigation.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 2:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:18:37 -0400

This is a tough one because there are regulations, absolutely. Many NCOs and Officers tend to forget (really or not I do not know) that soldiers have a profile. Your cadet should make sure they have a copy of their profile on their person at all times and provide a copy to every individual in the chain of command on both the cadet side and the cadre. If this does not help, your cadet should utilize the cadet chain of command and then the cadre chain of command to air their grievances. If this proves unsuccessful, the cadet can use the cadre commanders open door policy. If that does not work, the cadet can file a formal grievance with the local IG office. There are more steps, but IG can usually sort it out without any sort of issue.

I can’t speak for the cadre, but it may be a case of poor or miscommunication on one or multiple fronts.

I hope my answer helps and I’m sorry you and your cadet have not had the experience you were hoping for thus far.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 3:45 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:45:18 -0400

Ann-It looks like you've already received some guidance regarding the relevant regulations, so I don't need to expound on that. The reason we have regulations is so that subordinates and superiors both have a clear understanding of obligations, procedures and recourse. If these aren't being adhered to, that is the real issue, and I imagine there is a Chain of Command for addressing it.

Now, since we're talking about a training environment, specifically one for future officers, I'll go a bit beyond the "regulations".

First, do you mind if I ask what your relationship to the cadet is? Your question and the information provided does not indicate if you are this cadet's superior, peer, or family. For brevity, I'll assume that you are not in their immediate ROTC chain of command; if I'm in error, please don't hesitate to correct me.

Officer programs (as with any competitive training) are designed to be challenging. The simple reason is two-fold, both to instill resilience and confidence, and to "weed out" those who may lack the aptitudes and core competencies to be successful as future military officers. This attrition is necessary and impersonal, and should be administered such that it is a just process. However, nothing is "perfect", and if the cadet's leadership are not following regulations...then there may be recourse.

That said, the cadet should ask themselves how much they want to "fight" that system. I've read your response to one of the NCOs here, and admit that it concerns me. Yes, leaders should be seeking to understand their people's circumstances and act according to policy...but the cadet should also be striving to get "off" profile as rapidly as practicable, and resume their training at 100%...which I'm sure they are seeking to do.

Many of us here on RP, myself included, have gone through training and operations while injured. While no good leader would want one of their people putting undue and damaging stress on their bodies against "doctor's orders" when unnecessary, there are times when it is indeed necessary to accomplish the mission, and young officers have to learn to balance these needs. I presume this, more than any bias, ignorance or willful abuse is what is influencing the cadre.

I can only go further by repeating the excellent guidance of others below and wish you and the cadet success.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 23 at 2018 3:46 PM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:46:04 -0400

I would recommend her utilizing her NG chain of command to see how/if they can assist.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 6:10 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:10:46 -0400

Well let’s see it from their point. So you say you want to commission in the Army and we have a responsibility to ensure the quality of officers that commission. Of course they are going to be hounding this cadet. Not doing PT and not participating can be viewed as an indicator of malingering. Not that’s case but hey. I have seen some very crappy profiles written by doctors on the request of the Soldier. So if there were indications of malingering before then the cadre may be considering that. I’ll tell you when ever I have been on profile no one ever hounded me about it cause they know I work hard during PT. If you don’t have that reputation before the injury it’s hard to build one after. The LTC pretty much said he is ok with them asking about her status. Nothing you can do but get yourself in trouble. They are not forcing the cadet to break the profile so really- no harm but the cadet’s reputation. There is no regulations against the command forming an opinion of a Soldier.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 24 at 2018 5:29 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 05:29:30 -0400

If they are 3-4yr contract students, then they have to meet certain military standards, failure to meet these standards can result in them losing that contract and any payments, college tuition assistance

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2023 10:59 AM

Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:59:44 -0500

USACC Pam 145-4 may help you