Where can I find specific guidance regarding how Army Officers and Enlisted refer to each other when speaking?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 11:09:24 -0400

I have a new Officer in my unit who addresses myself and a Master Sergeant as Sir. He also refers to the Corporal and one of the other NCOs by their first names. I spoke to him about it, and his response was that he, as a Captain, can refer to anyone who doesn't outrank him however he wants to. I have looked at Army Regulation 600-20, but beyond the table showing the title of address, but I can't find anything that specifies whether he is allowed to address NCOs in the manner he is.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2022 1:10 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 13:10:21 -0400

I mean, he should at least use rank but the only time I've seen people call everyone sir or ma'am is when I worked with the Air Force. In my last unit, I had a MAJ who would call my by my first name which was the first time an Army officer ever did that. The AF officers would all the time. It threw me off.

I know it's more typical that officers call each other by their first names. I would just show him the AR says these are the titles of address for NCOs and that you find it uncomfortable that he calls NCOs "sir" and that it's unprofessional to call certain NCOs by their first name as it gives off a sense of impropriety and possibly favoring them which could lead to a perception of fraternization.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2022 1:53 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 13:53:37 -0400

Well.......... he's not professional then, and his response borders on being a jerk about it. CPT isn't a rank yet one gets to act that way, lest risk the wrath those he depends on to execute their jobs correctly without him having to micro manage everything with counseling statements.

My BC would refer to me by my first name when one on one. To me it meant whew........ I'm not in deep shit. When I hear CPT Lesher, I think uh oh.

The greatest mis addressing I did was to my TRADOC/AIT 1SG and I said good morning SGT. Push ups followed.

I think this situation needs mentoring guidance, but who is there to give it and for it to be accepted.

I still see folks get bent out of shape when addressing a WO1 as Chief instead of Mr/Ms. Usually of course it's other Chiefs. I do it too. All Warrants are Chief to me (I'm lazy), and they probably tolerate it because I was the Company Commander.

To address an NCO as Sir seems kind of weird. Then how does he address COL's. To address a CPL by first name and then not do so with all other lower enlisted sends a red flag of favoritism.

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If I have any guidance of direction one needs to be cognizant of ears around them. He's going to get caught up one day using his unique system of addressing service members and it's going to cause heads to turn of those 3+ ranks above him.

As well, rank has its privileges to blow things off, but at the end of the day we are each slotted into our own individual roles as it pertains to being a wheel in the cog of national defense. Our ranks don't allow us to really go too far left or right of our defined roles and responsibilities. Until one can WRITE the REGULATIONS one needs to be aware how far left and right the are outside of them and when and where they are when they do.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 9 at 2022 3:01 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 15:01:24 -0400

Used to be in AR 600-20 under titles of address.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 9 at 2022 5:11 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 17:11:40 -0400

Here are some traditions I've seen during my time as an Air Force officer and Army Civilian.
-Services differ on addressing junior enlisted, NCO, and Officers. In today's pronoun sensitive environment, rank and last name is safest.
-Officers should show respect to NCOs and junior enlisted by using their rank and last name. Some services, mostly Marines, use the entire rank, for example "Master Gunnery Sergeant Smith."
-Officers may address service members junior to them by last name only or rank only; however, if a more senior officer is present, then the rank and last name should be used for officers and NCOs.
-In informal settings, officers of the same rank may address each other by first name, nickname, last name.
-Some communities within the Services have customs that allow Service Members to address each other by job titles, crew positions, or call signs under certain circumstances. For example, a fighter aircraft flight debriefing composed of company grade pilots and one field grade pilot may all address each other by call sign when talking about what went right or wrong during a mission.
-Use of sir and ma'am to show respect to officers in lieu of their rank or rank and last name.
-General Offices can call any subordinate about anything they want. During some award or retirement ceremonies, General Officers may refer to the honoree by their first name to show a personal respect for the service member. Example: "I've worked with Jim on and off during the last 15 years and have the greatest respect for his capabilities and integrity. I wish Jim and Marsha the best of everything in their upcoming retirement." said the Commanding General.
-Some ranks have special nicknames that are generally used in their Service. For example, Chief Warrant Officers are called "chief." Air Force and Space Force Chief Master Sergeants are called "chief." Marine Gunnery Sergeants are called "gunny"; Master Gunnery Sergeants, "master gunny." Marines have an Infantry Weapons Officer, a warrant officer, referred to as "gunner." Mister, Miss, or Mizz, was used for warrant officers and for Navy junior officers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2022 7:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Aug 2022 19:57:05 -0400

Pretty sure AR 600-25 and TC 7-21.13 covers it if 600-20 is lacking, but it sounds like he's behaving like he thinks his brass doesn't tarnish. CSM should hang about one day and listen in and if your BC is worth a damn he/she'll handle it.

Plenty of us have relaxed relationships with our seniors after working with them regularly or deploying with them, but there is a time and place and a need to know when to tighten things up. Those relaxed relationships take time to earn and feel out as well, can't just roll into it because you have bars.

The first name thing is something officers do between officers, but that's just an officer quirk and does not apply to the enlisted. Many enlisted find it awkward, unless a relationship has been built on a personal level through trust and service together. Even then there's customs and courtesies that still need to be observed in many areas.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Aug 10 at 2022 9:44 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 09:44:21 -0400

Sounds like this Captain is still trying to figure out his leadership style and is fumbling the football a little bit. I have seen Officers play it a little loose as their way of being personable to folks. First names and throwing a Mr. in there from time to time. The Mr. is more of a thing I have seen in the Navy but it happens. If it becomes a larger issue I would address your first officer in your chain or engage your 1st Sgt to act as a mediator in the middle of this. Somebody needs to help bridge the gap and without making a congressional case communicate to the Capt that his cavalier approach is gumming up the works.

Response by LTC Steve Beres made Aug 10 at 2022 2:18 PM

LTC Steve Beres — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 14:18:46 -0400

Technically, the CPT is correct, but it is very unprofessional. As a Company Commander I never addressed my 1SG in front of the troops other than by using his rank, to foster his leadership position within the ranks. Behind closed doors, I would at time use his first name, but it was not reciprocated. While serving on staff duty to a Brigadier General and as A Major myself, he almost always used my first name in front of other officers, never in front of enlisted, and I never would have even considered calling him anything other than General. Although not every form of address is covered by regulation, there are a set of "unwritten standards" for military standards and cohesion. Sounds like his BC should explain this to him, along with the reasoning.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2022 2:23 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2022 14:23:50 -0400

Not army so i couldn't tell you an instruction but i can tell you how to tactfully approach it. simplest way would be to professionally pull him aside and remind him that you and the NCOs have earned the rank at which you are appointed and would appreciate being addressed as such, As for addressing
of the Master Sergeant you may want to discuss if he feels the same way first before speaking on his behalf or allow him to discuss how he is addressed.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Aug 29 at 2022 11:32 AM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Mon, 29 Aug 2022 11:32:12 -0400

Once had a very old CW4 (Way B 4 the CW5 Tank) that when talking with this one General, the General called him by his first name and the CW4 called the General by his first name. That was the one and only time I ever saw a lower rank do that to a higher rank. I strongly suspected their relationship went way back.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Oct 12 at 2022 10:11 PM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Wed, 12 Oct 2022 22:11:29 -0400

Respect is a two way street. Good manners are always in style. It doesn't behoove a Captain to call any Sgt as "Bill" I have been out of the Marine Corps since June of '76 and I still refer Officers as Major Smith, Col Smith etc. I expected to be called At least Sgt Probert The military is supposed to be a culture of respect more of us need to practice it and expect it in return. Disrespect should not be tolerated by any rank...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 16 at 2022 8:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:59:36 -0400

Someone of more rank needs to give this CPT a block of instruction on addresses for all ranks. CSM may need to inform Cdr what is going on too. Enough of this silliness.

Response by SSG Bob Robertson made Oct 17 at 2022 6:24 AM

SSG Bob Robertson — Mon, 17 Oct 2022 06:24:17 -0400

I would bet $100 that he is an ROTC officer. When I was in 76-85, I always found that West Point officers were more professional and that this Captains response was typical of ROTC. There are regulations and then there is professionalism. West Point officers, especially new ones would always ask questions of the senior NCO's and ROTC would always say if I wanted your opinion I would have asked. Once we were loading a train with vehicles to take to Ft. Ord and the 1st LT. had us doing it wrong but did it anyway. We did tell him it was wrong, but he wouldn't listen. When the Batt. XO came by to see our progress he tore into that Lt. like there was no tomorrow. We laugh our butts off. Our responsibility is to guide and tell them. If they don't take our advice, then... ??

Response by CSM Bob Stanek made Oct 28 at 2022 9:15 PM

CSM Bob Stanek — Fri, 28 Oct 2022 21:15:17 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member With no disrespect to you or your knowledge level or in particular reference to the question you are asking. But I find it interesting and to be honest, a bit concerning that fewer and fewer mid-level soldiers (SGTs-SSGs-SFCS) seem to have been taught the details and specifics in most of the critical Army Regulations and field manuals to the level of knowledge that appeared to be very common for most senior NCOs of past years (early 2000s and before time frame).

Now this could be just me "over-estimating the knowledge" of past NCOs, but when I left the Army in 2016 as a Division Level CSM, it was not uncommon to find junior NCOs (SGTs and SSGs) who seemly didn't know the location of said knowledge, let alone how to go about looking for that information.

I remember on a number of occasions as a SSG or as a SFC asking either my 1SG or CSM/SGM about a specific topic like this. More often than not, they without thought would rattle off the answer on which AR, Training Circular or FM i needed to pursue. They didn't tell me the specific answer but make me research it like a student in a law class. And in most cases, I found the specific answer I was looking for, and usually along with some other facts and details that I didn't know before. This was well before the of the internet and Wikipedia and other computer-based knowledge centers.

I also wonder if the NCO Academies are letting down our young NCOs by focusing more on TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE instead of some of the basic Army Regulations knowledge, historical facts or myths, and most importantly the critical skill of investigative research. Just a speculation on my part as the Army seems to have changed its stripes these days to a more modern-day focus given the changes the world is making to be more Digital and Technical then historical base knowledge (kind of high-level math understanding, but not the basic add and subtract, just to simplify it).

Bottom line, I think the "lost art" in this whole issue, IN MY OPINION ONLY, is that the Army has lost its ability to pass on institutional knowledge from one generation of soldiers to the next. The schools are more focused on technical knowledge that traditional and historical knowledge, ergo why the Army (military services in general) seem to be making the same mistakes they have made in the past (go back to the 50s and 70s/80s.

I know I didn't specifically answer your question, but there is a reason for that, as I think you will learn more by allowing you to investigate it by yourself and hopefully learn more about yourself and the Army in general.

Good Luck resolving this issue with the LT. Hopefully, you'll learn how to handle the situation with respect and pass on what you learn along the way as you help to develop Junior NCOs.

One final note, during my time as a 1SG and SGM/CSM, I collected a series of LEADERSHIP documents that I thought were critical for SENIOR NCO LEADERS. I passed them on to all my 1SGs and SGMs and CSMs during my last ten years in the Army. It's about 15 documents with some going back to the 60s and all the time thru to modern days. If you are interested in these documents, let me know by sending me a private message and I'll pass them on to you without issue.

God Bless.

Respectfully
Bob Stanek
CSM (R)
US Army

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Nov 5 at 2022 9:38 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 09:38:09 -0400

A long time ago i did a correspondence course dealing with Military Customs and Courtesy.

Response by Sgt Luis Bonilla made Nov 10 at 2022 11:01 AM

Sgt Luis Bonilla — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 11:01:12 -0500

Wow, wow this should never happen am sorry I was enlisted in the USMC and we always used rank and last name or amongst enlisted it was always last name I don’t know where this Officer got his training but I like a CSM or even a 1stSgt address this to this Officer it’s going to bite this Officer in the ass very soon. It’s sad to read this but I guess it does happen

Response by LTC David Howard made Nov 10 at 2022 4:34 PM

LTC David Howard — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 16:34:18 -0500

Your new Captain sounds like a total jerk. An officer addressing NCO's as "sir" comes off as ignorant and inappropriate. Addressing junion enlisted by their first names is disrespectful and also inappropriate. Even if he asks permission to address staff by their first names it is wrong of him to do so, since as an officer they are unlikely to feel free to give or withhold permission to do so. Should one of those enlisted soldiers initiate a complaint with the Inspector General, claiming that they were being treated condescendingly and inappropriately informally, I would expect the Captain to end up with an official reprimand following the I.G.'s inquiry into the matter and report to the superior of that Captain. I state this as a former Inspector General who held that position for a major army base, albeit a few decades ago.

Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Nov 10 at 2022 9:14 PM

CSM Jerry Weldon — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 21:14:08 -0500

The regulation goes no further in explaining because it is clear from the table there are no personal exceptions, get my drift...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2022 8:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:03:42 -0500

First Capitan is a rank, pay grade O-3. Second addressing others by their given name unless they are comfortable with it is blatantly unprofessional.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Nov 12 at 2022 10:44 AM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Sat, 12 Nov 2022 10:44:02 -0500

Heard Generals address lower rank by their first name and the lower rank address the General by the rank. However, Once had a CW4 with over 30 Years of service address the General by his first name. (1969).

Response by SGM Leon Peck made Nov 15 at 2022 8:38 AM

SGM Leon Peck — Tue, 15 Nov 2022 08:38:25 -0500

The Army is basically a cross section of society. There are some exceptional leaders and some real jerks. I’ve served with both. The great ones I considered to be “Leaders” the others were just “managers”, and there is a difference. My best and favorite bosses would call me “Sgt Peck” when the occasion called for it and “Lonnie” when we were in a more informal setting I am still close friends with them, and they retired as General Officers. But they were leaders, and good ones.

On a side note, when I was attending ANCOC at Ft Benning, I was assigned as the Assistant Class Leader. And as such attended a few meetings with school staff NCOs. I happened to address one of the First Sergeants as “Top”. It’s a title that has been used for many years for that position. I was always told that it meant Top Soldier in the Company. But it can also mean Top Kick. In any case, it was a term that this one specific First Sergeant didn’t care for, and he let me know, in no uncertain terms, that he didn’t. I explained that there was certainly no disrespect intended. And we got on fine, after that. But, you never know how someone is going to feel about how you address them. Best to keep it formal until you know how they feel.

Response by SGT John Schmelzkopf made Dec 20 at 2022 12:46 AM

SGT John Schmelzkopf — Tue, 20 Dec 2022 00:46:50 -0500

Professional is always by Regs, Pvt, PFC, Mr for WO and so on. If you've been in Combat and both or all involved are Mature enough, some can get more personal if all around in Ear Range are in Trusted. We used to use Tags when a new guy joined the Group, they got Tagged and that often stuck with them, fun but also it meant respect that could be trusted. Aviation is often very relaxed, especially among Crew. I always went by Earned Respect, You can use the Proper Title per Regs and still think the individual is a dip.
We had a 1 Star who was a Piece of Garbage and the Commander, a 2 Star who was one of the greatest Officers I'd known. The 2 Star would go to Saigon or somewhere for a Meeting and the 1 Star would immediately show his ass. We lived in a Hotel Compound, had a Club, had Movies every night. Some were always just out of the Bush for a few days of Hot Showers food and healing up. Well, the 2 Star always respected the Number One Rule of Leadership, Take care of your Troops First, he'd even get in the Chow line when eating at our Mess. The 1 Star would show up late for the Movie and have them Re-Start the Movie. I know some will say Rank has its Privilege, but one of the Greatest things I learned at Bad Tolz NCO Academy was Take care of your Troops First, it paid off many times. Troops respect a Leader that Keeps his word, takes on Problems first, then counsels or corrects a problem with performance, is always fair and consistent. Never had a Respect Problem, Decorum is key, Act like a Sgt and you will Be respected as a Sgt. Sure, you'll get a Sweetheart once in a while that will try you, but that's your job to correct the problem

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2022 9:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Dec 2022 21:09:53 -0500

AR 600-25, AR 25-50 (Army Correspondence) and maybe a smidgen of a mention in TC 3-21.5 (formerly FM 22-5 and I will almost bet under the old FM it DID touch on this) should be your go-to's.