Where do we draw the line when it comes to free speech?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:40:55 -0400

With all that is going on. Where do we draw the line when it comes to free speech? Especially since the stuff in this picture, burning our country's flag, ripting, looting, etc. Is expressed and not just speech!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 5:43 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:43:53 -0400

People are able to report these pages to FB - and I hope this one has. They are supposed to be deleted, but we all know how "supposed to" goes. It makes my soul cry that they don't understand that if that flag wasn't there (& those of us that have fought for what which it stands), they wouldn't be able to express such freedom w/o severe penalties.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 5:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:43:54 -0400

Please bare with me. They don't seem to have an edit feature on the phone APP yet.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 10 at 2015 5:50 PM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:50:28 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I usually really try to be respectful and intelligent in my replies on RP, these people need to be deported to a third world country that doesn't even have toilet paper. Very sad that Facebook is even allowing such stuff (even for a minute) to be posted. This isn't Freedom of Speech in my opinion; it is rude, ridiculous, and just plain childish and immature. These people have no clue what Freedom of Speech is or the Freedom they enjoy in this country. Do something like in other foreign countries and see where it will get you. Disgusting! Sorry if I got a little carried away!

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 5:50 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:50:43 -0400

Where do we draw the line in free speech? We don't. If we did, it would be approved speech.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jul 10 at 2015 5:53 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:53:24 -0400

"Speech" has long been interpreted to mean "expression." That means that actions committed to make a statement are considered protected unless they cause harm or incite violence. The implications of reversing this view would be staggering and I'm pretty confident you would not be happy with the results.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 10 at 2015 6:20 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:20:32 -0400

According to constitution and law in the most basic form, the only 2 topics not covered under free speech is defamation and obscenity. Of course what is defamation or obscenity can be considered subjective, but there are some topics which ethically can be unprotected under free speech such as threats of violence, child sexual abuse, etc. Everything else is debatable.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jul 10 at 2015 6:22 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:22:44 -0400

It's still free speech. However, my first thought was "What morons". They have no idea what oppression is. I seem to recall reading about a woman in Iran who is being prosecuted for the indecency of shaking her male lawyers hand. I wonder what the punishment in a Sharia Court would be for distributing a bottomless picture of yourself on the internet? Or if these people would recognize Sharia as being oppressive?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Jul 10 at 2015 6:24 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:24:01 -0400

I don't remember learning that kind of behavior in college, the military, or the home. Maybe they went to a different finishing school.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 6:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:33:48 -0400

Some speech should be nice and widely distributed so that the whole country can see how they feel about the USA and the flag. Their boss might be interested. So might their mothers. So might the local VFW...

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jul 10 at 2015 7:38 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 19:38:05 -0400

Well, if you feel oppressed in this country, then by all means leave! We won't stop you. For no cost, we'll tell you where you can go and how to get there.

Response by SFC Everett Oliver made Jul 10 at 2015 8:09 PM

SFC Everett Oliver — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 20:09:03 -0400

As long as the law stands as it does today I will stand up and protect the rights of Idiots to desecrate the flag that stands for those rights.

However, at the same time I will fight for the passage of the Flag protection Amendment as backed every year by the American Legion.

"The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. "

On my private property that has already passed, and within my site I can only hope someone has my bail money....(notice the hypocrisy there?)

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 10:21 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:21:38 -0400

Unfortunately, I think our Constitution allows this trash. If burning the flag as a demonstration is allowed, I'm sure this garbage is allowed. It's what we are fighting (or have fought) for. Isn't that ironic!

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 10:24 PM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:24:40 -0400

Whereas actions like the ones pictured in the original question tend to entice otherwise law abiding citizens into forming a mob with the intent of inflicting physical harm...I often laugh on the inside about the fact that 99.5% of the population finds people like this to be totally unappreciative and otherwise complete idiots. I'm sure it will be hard for these two to find employment...EVER...if interviewers are smart and "Google" all applicants. And where I find these actions deplorable...I'm also proud to know that I am part of the 1 percenters that assist in preserving their right to do it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 11:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 23:09:18 -0400

This is so over the top I'd wager they're doing this for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of people. Life trolls. If you flip out on them, you'll only encourage them.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2015 11:25 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jul 2015 23:25:12 -0400

All speech is free unless it would incite riots of injuries from reaction i.e yelling fire in a crowded theater. Restrictions outside this as was previous;y said would make it approved speech. And who would be doing the approvals?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2015 10:20 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:20:50 -0400

Why repost this? Rewarding idiots with exactly the fame they were obviously after is not the way to discourage reprehensible behavior.

Response by Sgt Tom Vaughn made Jul 17 at 2015 2:21 AM

Sgt Tom Vaughn — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:21:15 -0400

Free speech does not mean you won't get your free speech slapped up side your head For every free word or action there can be an opposit reactions you have to live with

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 17 at 2015 2:35 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 02:35:56 -0400

SPC Kenneth Landay, The response that comes to my mind is a bunch of nasty words!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2015 5:52 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jul 2015 05:52:44 -0400

While i personally deplore such disgraceful behavior i will gladly lay my life down for your right to be offended. That is freedom of speech. Personally i would like to see those people deported but like i said above - we all have the right to be offended.

Response by SGT Scott Curtice made Jul 23 at 2015 1:37 PM

SGT Scott Curtice — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:37:09 -0400

I ignore the flag burning, it's legal, many things that are legal suck, but it's the price of freedom. Personally, burning a copy of the Constitution would bother me more. Especially online, I wouldn't give such ignorance the time of day, they post it for attention, for the argument, but yes slapping someways sideways has crossed my mind a time or two seeing some of this crap. We have far bigger issues in this country that such things that would better to focus on

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 23 at 2015 1:40 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 23 Jul 2015 13:40:39 -0400

I wonder if she has a job, a mother and father, and a church membership. I would love to give her attention by sending her photo to all of them.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2015 1:48 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Oct 2015 01:48:30 -0400

I have used this reference before - but I think it fits in this conversation:
From the movie - The American President (1995)
President Andrew Shepherd (Michael Douglas):
America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. Show me that, defend that, and celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free".
Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, and celebrate that in your classrooms.
Unfortunately, in 'free speech' you have to allow all to say their words (or you don't have 'free speech') - but it doesn't mean you have to listen to them. Walk away, turn to a different channel or station - you are 'free' to decide what you want to see and hear. It's always your decision whether or not you want to continue to read and/or listen to someone that is spouting off things you don't like, appreciate or believe in. Even though we might not like what is being said or being broadcast on some media - we cannot censor it or we become the very thing that we have fought World Wars over. I did not defend this country for over 32 years for it to slide into some fascist or Nazi type existence. I hope our new generations will learn from history and also actually read the constitution and its amendment’s so that they will not doom us to keep repeating history.
Many symbols have been taken on by groups that were originally not a bad thing: the Swastika was a religious symbol before the Nazi Party turned its image into something people associated with evil, the confederate flag was not considered bad until the KKK and other white supremacy groups begin using it. Just because someone utilizes a ‘symbol’ doesn’t mean that symbol is bad.
From a different perspective, those that have been inadvertently and unintentionally attacked by our own military during various operations through the years by inaccurate intelligence or misdirected weapons deployment could view the United States Flag as a symbol of evil.
It all depends on your view point and the circumstances surrounding whatever issue is occurring. History is history, you either accept it for what it was and hopefully learn from it or you are doomed to repeat it. People need to stop being ‘sheepeople’ and open their eyes and look past all the ‘smoke and mirrors’ and discover the truth about subjects before going off and giving into to all the perpetual ‘yellow journalism’ that is broadcast constantly.
If you truly believe in the concept of ‘free speech’ in all its forms, then someone doing something that you don’t approve of that doesn’t hurt or damage a living person even though it might make your blood boil should not be ‘censored.’ Providing continued focus on the ‘improper actions’ just makes more people continue to spread the unwanted information further. There are numerous examples of things going ‘viral’ on the various media sources because people continue to focus on something.

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Oct 2 at 2016 4:22 PM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sun, 02 Oct 2016 16:22:45 -0400

WE don't. it's only when speech becomes detrimental to good order and discipline within the military that we are concerned. hence the UCMJ. as for civilians, the have a right to say anything that comes to their fuzzy little minds subject to certain common sense restrictions (fire in a theater). if someone says something that offends you, man up, ignore it, move along.