Where has the recent trend of calling Master Sergeants by their full rank come from?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:13:01 -0400

A few years ago it was the norm to call a MSG "Sergeant", but I've noticed recently that it's becoming more common to hear them addressed as "Master Sergeant". I was even corrected by a MSG and told to call him by his entire rank. I said roger and moved on with my life, but it perplexed me because AR 600-20 clearly states that the title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant". What are your thoughts?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 9:22 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:22:19 -0400

Regs are regs, however said E8 is a Master Sergeant and can direct you to call him that. I’m thinking he may have been passed over for or misses his 1SG time. You did well by saying roger and moving on. I think there is a certain level of respect shown by utilizing the entire rank, but you did nothing wrong and responded the absolute correct way. Well done.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 9:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:25:10 -0400

You are completely correct, all sergeants in our Army, are by regulation, to be addressed as just “Sergeant”, unless they are wearing a star or a diamond. Whoever that Sergeant was that called you out, needs to check their ego, those type of wanna be glorified NCO’s make the rest of us look bad.

Response by CW3 Chuck Huddleston made Mar 30 at 2018 9:47 PM

CW3 Chuck Huddleston — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:47:03 -0400

You were correct. Too bad that he was having a bad day and took it out on you.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 9:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 21:51:35 -0400

CW3 Chuck Huddleston I didn't lose any sleep over it. It was more weird than anything to me. It's just weird to me that it's becoming such a common thing

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 10:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:25:57 -0400

Not recent. I ran into that over a decade ago. In the case of two of my units, I traced it back to former Marines who insisted they be referred to by their rank rather than the title of "Sergeant". A bunch newbie Privates and SPC and uninformed NCOs bought into it so I GLADLY gave an NCODPs to 86 that shit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 2:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 02:37:48 -0400

I remember the old radio set: the PRC E8. Go ask around sometime if anyone knows where they can find a "PricK E8". I bet you will get some interesting responses :)

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Mar 31 at 2018 10:33 AM

MSG Johnathan Mathes — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:33:13 -0400

Well he was wrong... I have been called sgt my whole career.. I’m still a sgt..just more rockers.. lots of troops did call me master sgt..but I’d like to say it was a respect thing in their mind.. dunno.. as long as they were being respectful I never cared

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 3:11 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 15:11:46 -0400

Great post, the MSG definitely had an ego trip. It’s a trend that happens throughout the ranks and a lot of soldiers pick and choose when AR 600-20 applies. Privates and Specialists aren’t addressed properly for the most part. They are often just called by their last names and not rank + name and it’s seen as the norm, 1SGs are TOP, Warrants are “Chief“. It’s tradition but by regs those titles don’t exist.

I had a battle buddy that was yelling at a cadet during a ROTC Basic Camp mission, at the end of getting his ass chewed he replied to the Drill Sergeant “Cadet Howard, you called me Howard it’s supposed to Cadet Howard Drill Sergeant.” And technically he was correct.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 4:06 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 16:06:50 -0400

I agree with MSG Anthony Quintero. I do recall one or two that had an "ego" issue with it, I just addressed them like they wanted to be addressed and gone about our business.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 5:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:31:14 -0400

I totally dislike the whole "Master Sergeant" trend, and I'm not sure where it's coming from either. Please, Sergeant is correct. Addressing me already has too many syllables.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 5:43 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 17:43:35 -0400

The trend comes from some guys who have their feelings hurt because they aren’t 1SG or SGM. Next time tell’em you ain’t got no participation trophies for ol’Sarg. Check that- I’m spending Easter in France and have been drinking for a while. But I think I would like to hear how that turns out.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 9:00 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 21:00:14 -0400

I've always called Master Sergeants by their full rank, to me, it was always a next tier thing. They aren't in the platoon, they are above the platoon.

However, now that I think about it, when Soldiers call me Sergeant First Class, it's seems kinda off-putting.

Response by SGT Matthew S. made Mar 31 at 2018 11:15 PM

SGT Matthew S. — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 23:15:08 -0400

Even though not in accordance with regulation, it was "common knowledge" to address a Master Sergeant by rank in '02 when I went in, so at least in some areas it must have started well prior to that point.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 3:11 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 03:11:55 -0400

I like to follow the refs as much as possible that way it’s on paper. As a young LT in a flight Platoon, and now, I never addressed the warrant officers as Chief. It was and is always Mr. once a few years ago when I referenced a warrant officer as Mr. one of the other officers called me on it because it was common knowledge th s person wasn’t really all that he should be. I simply replied, that the proper way to address all warrant officers.

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Apr 1 at 2018 5:46 AM

MSG Louis Alexander — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 05:46:20 -0400

Doesn’t upset me, call me Sergeant…If I wanted titles I would have went into the Marines. Anyway, you look at it, you know I’m senior other to a Sergeants Major and if told to do something, you’ll do it that’s all that counts.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 6:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 18:38:27 -0400

Probably not regulation, but I was taught that when talking to a MSG, you call them sergeant. “Sergeant, where do you want this box of grid squares?” But when referring to a MSG in third person, you say the whole rank (this goes for all NCOs I was told). “Master Sergeant Kuhar said we are out of blinker fluid.”

Response by MSG David Johnson made Apr 1 at 2018 11:44 PM

MSG David Johnson — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 23:44:52 -0400

When I was promoted to E-8 in Iraq 2007, we had about a dozen Marine or Navy prior service in our company. We had 3 E-8's in the company, the 1SG, myself and another were platoon sergeants.

We worked directly for the Marines so full rank was used for everyone, and when around Army units if we were not addressed as Master Sergeant, one of our Soldiers would usually make an on the spot correction.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that you Had to call a MSG Sergeant, and that someone needed to check their ego by making a correction. That's nonsense, if it's in an AR written that way I would like to see it. From my time in, it was acceptable to call an NCO Sergeant, unless they were a 1SG, or an E-9. Or, unless it has been made known by that particular senior NCO how he will be addressed.

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 2 at 2018 10:45 AM

SPC David Willis — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 10:45:34 -0400

Bet he carries around a tape measurer too...

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Apr 2 at 2018 11:01 AM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 11:01:54 -0400

I've head this too, although 1.) I have never been told by a MSG to call him by full rank and 2.) I have been told by a MSG to call him only by Sergeant.
I think those who disregard AR 600-20 (which I was taught way back in Future Soldier training) simply don't know better.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 4:39 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 16:39:49 -0400

NCOs in the Army are to be addressed in 1 of only 4 ways: Corporal, Sergeant, First Sergeant or Sergeant Major. The Army does not address NCOs as Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Master Sergeant or Command Sergeant Major although those are ranks/positions. Too many Senior NCOs abuse or expect this inaccuracy.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 4:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 16:57:01 -0400

But is it wrong to call a MSG by his full rank??

Response by Cpl John DeConti made Apr 2 at 2018 5:11 PM

Cpl John DeConti — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:11:07 -0400

I was a Marine.. I always called people by full rank (Pretty sure its required though). I kind of get where the dude is coming from... If I was a MSGT I must have been in for a considerable amount of time and would not want to be referred to as "SGT".. Because its the same title as some 23 year old kid who escalated through the ranks quickly and is barely out of highschool.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Apr 2 at 2018 5:26 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:26:57 -0400

I believe it harkens back to the days if Privates, Corporals and Sergeants being the enlisted ranks, with the the varying other ranks coming later. If the Master Sergeant wants to be called Master Sergeant, then call him Master Sergeant. He earned it.

Response by 1SG Morales Mata made Apr 2 at 2018 6:03 PM

1SG Morales Mata — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 18:03:16 -0400

There are three NCO ranks you do not address as SGT and they are: CPL, 1SG and SGM. if there is a recent change to the regulations, then I stand corrected.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 6:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 18:13:05 -0400

It seems that you already know the reference and regulation. AR 600-20, Table 1-1 would be a great tool for some professional development.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 6:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 18:14:30 -0400

I've seen this cropping up myself too. Not sure where the trend comes from exactly.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 6:21 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 18:21:32 -0400

I do it out of respect, they have been in long enough to have earned it. May not have to do it but I do.

Response by SGT Joshua Strup made Apr 2 at 2018 8:36 PM

SGT Joshua Strup — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 20:36:04 -0400

I always addressed master sergeants by full rank out of respect. Similarly, I addressed privates first class as "PFC" and asked my first sergeants if they preferred "first sergeant" or "top." From my experience, most warrant officers preferred "chief." Despite what regulation says, a little respect can take you a long way.

Response by Cpl Mark Sullivan made Apr 2 at 2018 9:43 PM

Cpl Mark Sullivan — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:43:38 -0400

What about top or gunny

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Apr 2 at 2018 9:48 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 21:48:43 -0400

Yeahhhhhh...try calling an Infantry NCO E-7 and above as simply "Sergeant" and see how far that gets you

Response by SFC Daniel Zelch made Apr 2 at 2018 10:06 PM

SFC Daniel Zelch — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 22:06:40 -0400

I have been retired for 17 years. When I was an active duty NCO it was understood that there were three titles for NCO. E-5 (Sgt) thru E-8 (Master Sgt) you called SGT. a 1Sgt was referred to as such, and a Sgt. Major (staff or command) was referred to as Sgt. Major

Response by PO2 Gary Caron made Apr 2 at 2018 11:04 PM

PO2 Gary Caron — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 23:04:44 -0400

It’s total BS when I was in the Navy any Chief E7 E8 or E9 was Chief not Senior or Master then after entering federal civilian service ie submarine maintenance the crews on board the boats called them Senior or Master Chief I called a few of them Chief and was called out more than once what a crock of BS

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 12:01 AM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 00:01:41 -0400

Sergeant is the correct term. We have to leave our egos at the front gate headed into work. At the end f the day, we all have to retire and leave our rank on the blue ID card.

Response by MSG Daniel C. made Apr 3 at 2018 12:21 AM

MSG Daniel C. — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 00:21:17 -0400

My only experience with this was in 2011 when I was deployed to Camp Arifjan Kuwait with 3rd Army. I was MSG working in the IG shop and I would answer the phone or refer to myself as sergeant and I was corrected by the deputy IG, a LTC. He was telling me I should be answering the phone as master sergeant. I never even considered that issue. I never experienced it before or after that deployment. Maybe just a trend in some spots.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 3:22 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 03:22:10 -0400

Ill always be a Sergeant, but if Soldiers want to call me Master Sergeant I just let it go, not that big of a deal to me. We have bigger fish to fry. Just don't call me asshole and were good to go.

Response by LtCol Mike Schaefer made Apr 3 at 2018 7:30 AM

LtCol Mike Schaefer — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 07:30:52 -0400

NCO's work hard for their rank. Using the entire rank when addressing them shoes the proper respect for that hard work.!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 9:10 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 09:10:04 -0400

Nothing official, but I guess I don't mind it as a show of respect.
I would never correct a Soldier for calling a MSG "Sergeant" or "Master Sergeant", though.
The cat that corrected you needs a hug.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Apr 3 at 2018 9:15 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 09:15:52 -0400

I noticed that recent trend too. Maybe in the last 5 years? I never got much static for bucking that trend, but I did notice it becoming normal; even caught myself saying it from time to time.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 4:04 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:04:32 -0400

Maybe it’s from the Ranger Regiment?
I know a MSG who spent his whole life in the Regiment and those around him just started to call him Master Sergeant. He’d even correct those who called him Sergeant.

Hell of a guy and NCO though, I don’t think it’s an ego thing.

Response by CSM William DeWolf made Apr 4 at 2018 2:49 PM

CSM William DeWolf — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:49:27 -0400

I believe it shows respect for the soldier and the rank and have no problem with it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 10:21 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 22:21:13 -0400

I don't see this a lot on the medical side but I will call a MSG by full rank if they are acting 1SG. Some people's egos get the best of them.

Response by MSG Al S made Apr 6 at 2018 8:28 AM

MSG Al S — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 08:28:21 -0400

It's a board question... Corporal, Sergeant, 1st Sergeant, Sergeant Major.... thats it,... its in the regulation

Response by MSG Brian Wiscott made Apr 6 at 2018 7:24 PM

MSG Brian Wiscott — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:24:36 -0400

From one that entered active duty way back in 1977 ( it was a different army then ) lower inlisted would most certainly call an NCO by their full rank. Other NCO's and Officers in non formal setting's would just use Sergeant.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 3:23 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 15:23:07 -0400

SERGEANT is correct. Master Segeant is merely a “term of endearment” (e.g. Smoke, Chief, Doc, etc.). I’m asked this a lot as a Master Sergeant. AR 600-20, Ch1!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 2:19 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:19:22 -0400

I look at it as a term of endearment. Still to this day, I call them Master Sergeant as a sign of respect. If I'm required to call a frocked SFC, First Sergeant, the least I can do is address a MSG by his full rank.

Response by MSG Roy Broussard made Apr 14 at 2018 11:14 PM

MSG Roy Broussard — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 23:14:12 -0400

I have always viewed it as a sign of respect for the rank. Just as a person addresses his ‘First Sergeant’, he should address the other E8 as ‘Master Sergeant’. In fact, in most units to which I have been assigned, all senior NCOs have been addressed by their full rank.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2018 12:50 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 12:50:06 -0400

I have spent some time around Marines and Airmen and I believe the Army should start addressing the NCOs by their proper ranks. As the Marines and Airmen have explained it keeps down confusion to whom is in charge. Even when I explain to them they could address me as SGT they would not do it.

Response by MSG Chris Brown made Apr 16 at 2018 4:11 PM

MSG Chris Brown — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 16:11:34 -0400

It's because MSG and 1SG are both E8 rank and you call the latter "First Sargent". I was also taught that MSG was addressed as "Sargent". It's what my men addressed me as.

Response by MSG Kirk Jackson made Apr 17 at 2018 4:32 PM

MSG Kirk Jackson — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 16:32:07 -0400

Do you call the other pay grade E8 Sergeant? Just follow tradition and you will be good to go

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2018 10:15 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Apr 2018 10:15:06 -0400

Recent? It's always been normal to call a MSG either by their full rank or just Sergeant. I've been in 14 years and have seen it both ways. I've seen people call a MSG by their full rank more often than not. I usually call a MSG by his or her full rank most of the time.

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Apr 29 at 2018 7:32 AM

SFC Mamerto Perez — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 07:32:50 -0400

A Master Sergeant has been call Sergeant for ages. I put 24 years in the Army and the only time they would address a Master Sergeant was you were telling and other soldier to report to a Master Sergeant.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2018 8:52 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:52:15 -0400

I will be real honest, I come from a back ground in the Marine Corp. When I came to the army I was shocked that all SGT's no matter of rank are call SGT's except E8 and above. I feel it is disrespectful for all SGT's. You earned that rank and deserve to be called a SGT, SSG, SFC, 1SGT, MSG, SM, CSM. I feel that it is laziness on the a protocol that needs changed. I feel the AR 600-20 needs to be clearly changed!

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Apr 29 at 2018 8:58 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:58:01 -0400

Allegations that use of actual rank designation in the Corps is an ego thing are wrong. A Master Sergeant or Master Gunnery Sergeant earn their titles by being expert in a particular field while a First Sergeant and Sergeant Major are more generalists who are assigned as part of the Commanding Officers experts on all enlisted matters. Although I would never ignore a Master Sergeant or Master Gunnery Sergeant's advice on any matter having impact on the members of my unit, I would never go to my First Sergeant or Sergeant Major for an opinion on an aircraft system. Yes, there are informal titles for all, but the grade designation gives a more accurate general idea of expertise.
I would also have different expectations of the overall capabilities of a E-8 vs an E-5 or a Lieutenant Colonel (05) vs Colonel (06) although both are commonly referred to as "Colonels". Titles do have meaning.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2018 10:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 10:59:04 -0400

I was taught that when addressing them it is Sergeant, when talking about them it is Master Sergeant...or Staff..etc..

Response by CPT David McRaney made May 2 at 2018 7:40 AM

CPT David McRaney — Wed, 02 May 2018 07:40:07 -0400

I believe that came from Master Sergeants

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made May 3 at 2018 11:58 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Thu, 03 May 2018 23:58:20 -0400

Well you have the reg on your side but some MSGs like to feel more important but being addressed by their full title. (Personally, I like it but I don't expect or demand it.) For what it is worth I once heard a CSM say he doesn't mind being addressed only as "sergeant". Its a matter of personal taste.

Response by SSG Dale London made May 4 at 2018 5:31 PM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 04 May 2018 17:31:32 -0400

It may have translated over from the Marine Corps following all the joint tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
As for me, anybody with more than two stripes is sergeant unless they sport a diamond or a star.

Response by COL Clifford Wheeler made May 5 at 2018 3:21 PM

COL Clifford Wheeler — Sat, 05 May 2018 15:21:05 -0400

I worked for a RCT in Iraq and learned that in the Corps, full rank is expected so I started doing that. It stuck with me through today. Not a big deal from my foxhole.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made May 7 at 2018 7:02 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Mon, 07 May 2018 07:02:22 -0400

More than likely, that calling out was from a 1SG wanna-be. I've seen it happen and discreet corrections to the offender (not within earshot of any subordinates, however)

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 8 at 2018 1:54 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 08 May 2018 13:54:15 -0400

Has someone posted the regulation yet because there is a regulation; it is simply not the norm. AR 600-20; Table 1-1
Grade: Master Sergeant
Pay grade: E-8
Title of address: Sergeant
Abbreviation: MSG
I got it. The Marines do it this way or that way. It's not disrespect or a norm; it's a regulation.

Response by CPT Edward Gunderson made May 8 at 2018 6:26 PM

CPT Edward Gunderson — Tue, 08 May 2018 18:26:14 -0400

If it is black and white, tell him you will do it as a sign of respect, but kindly mention what 600-20 says for his information. Generally speaking, they have enough pull to make life uncomfortable for you.

Response by MSG Manuel Garcia made May 10 at 2018 2:20 PM

MSG Manuel Garcia — Thu, 10 May 2018 14:20:35 -0400

As a MSG was never the type of look at me I’m above you. Although many soldiers in my Unit addressed me as MSG.
When I did my tour as a 1SG, well all called me that because of my position.
Then took over as the School SGM in a training commend and all called me MSG. I called a fellow MSG SGT and he was about to have a cow. We had to have a talk then behind closed doors. Later on in my career saw an opportunity to go to Iraq as a PM during the drawdown in 2010. It was a neat experience and recommend any MSGs to broaden their experience in many positions they can. As I always told my Sr. NCOs, respect is earned and send them to learn the NCO Creed. LOL

Response by LT Richard Lambing made May 10 at 2018 2:47 PM

LT Richard Lambing — Thu, 10 May 2018 14:47:12 -0400

I thought using the full rank title, was a Marine Corps thing. The other bran Che’s used titles of sergeant, petty officer, or dwhats appropriate.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2018 4:54 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 May 2018 16:54:35 -0400

For the Marines, always.
Never did for Army, learning that in JROTC, until a new MSG came to the JROTC unit at my alma mater, replacing the SGM. He knew my wife’s family, I’d been more thoroughly navalized with the full rank, and I figured, “if you do the long rank for both E9, why not for both E8, especially those that deserve it. What the heck.”
Now, he’s the only one I’ve done that to, and I’m not Army, obviously, so take my thoughts with a grain of (sea) salt.

.......what do USAF M/Sgts use?

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made May 10 at 2018 6:08 PM

MSG Louis Alexander — Thu, 10 May 2018 18:08:52 -0400

Some questions in Rally point never ceases to amaze me especially by individuals who received rank identification training during basic training. What’s disturbing is political correctness has crept into our ranks and many are adopting to its form of irrelevancy and sensitivity. Those soldiers having problems with rank identification needs to attend School of the Soldier”, where they can be reeducated on the finer points of Army rank. If you wear three stripes or more you’re “Sergeant” unless additional markings designate otherwise. How difficult is that to understand? Surly they can tell the difference between a Sergeant E-5, Master Sergeant and Command Sergeants Major.

Response by SGT Jodi WittBailey made May 12 at 2018 5:20 PM

SGT Jodi WittBailey — Sat, 12 May 2018 17:20:29 -0400

I always addressed MSG as such. I would have had issues if I hadn't. No one ever corrected me.

Response by GySgt David Shaver made May 13 at 2018 2:52 PM

GySgt David Shaver — Sun, 13 May 2018 14:52:40 -0400

My opinion is if they are considered a senior NCO, they should be addressed as such. Otherwise, why pick up rank if you want to be called Sergeant. Are you not proud of your accomplishments?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2018 4:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 May 2018 16:23:39 -0400

I always think of the Dirty Dozen reference to E8s. Stupid but cracks me up everytime. "What do you call 3 up and 3 down. A baseball inning."

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made May 21 at 2018 1:35 PM

1SG Harold Piet — Mon, 21 May 2018 13:35:13 -0400

EGO

Response by Sgt Carlos Barrera made May 22 at 2018 4:01 PM

Sgt Carlos Barrera — Tue, 22 May 2018 16:01:24 -0400

Most ranks in the Army above SGT (E-5) all are called Sgt, but that is in the Army; Marines calls anyone above the rank of Sgt by their rank. E7 Gunnery Sergeant (Gunny) E8 Master Sergeant (top) and E9 Sergeant Major (no need to explain) or Master Gunnery Sergeant (Master Guns).
But mostly all ranks are called by their correct rank

Response by Cpl David Amos made May 23 at 2018 3:58 PM

Cpl David Amos — Wed, 23 May 2018 15:58:16 -0400

That is one thing about the Army that drives me up the wall. In the USMC, you call them by the rank they earned,; enlisted of course. I would never, I my wildest dreams, pull are Gomer Pyle and call a GySgt "Sarge " or Sergeant. I know some units allow MSgt to be called "Top" but I would address an E6 as Sraff Sergeant. Even when I'm on an Army base I still call them by the rank they earned. When I was active as a new Corporal, I had to come home on convalescent leave and ended up going to Darnell Army hospital at Fort Hood. I would hear Sergeant First Class guys being called Sergeant and it was no big deal to them. Never in the Corps would that fly; nor would I expect it to. I thought the end of the world was fixin to happen. Semper fi

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2018 9:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 May 2018 09:05:16 -0400

I’ve wrestled with this one too. I’m aware that just “Sergeant” is the correct title, but sometimes I throw in “Master Sergeant” depending on the situation. I’m more likely to use the longer title if I know the MSG has already done 1SG time. I think of it as basically an extra courtesy that it’s up to my individual discretion to use or not. I will add that since MSG are often surrounded by other NCOs, it does make it slightly easier to get their attention if you throw in the “Master.”

Response by CPO Daren James made May 25 at 2018 12:48 PM

CPO Daren James — Fri, 25 May 2018 12:48:28 -0400

As an E-6 or below I wouldn't ever address my Master or Senior Chief as just Chief when I was afloat. So unless you're on a personal relationship with a MSG I'd use their full rank.

Response by CPT Alfred Smiley made May 29 at 2018 1:36 PM

CPT Alfred Smiley — Tue, 29 May 2018 13:36:01 -0400

Every promotion is an accomplishment, and as a soldier moves up the ladder, each promotion is a successively greater accomplishment. I think Sergeant E-5 is a milestone, as the soldier has now attained the "journeyman" level of expertise and is expected to assume a full leadership role.
Platoon Sergeant/SFC E-7 is a really significant milestone.
Those who go on to reach First Sergeant/Master Sergeant have reached such heights that they fully deserve to be called by their full rank title; and I pity the fool who does not call an E-9 by his rank of "Sergeant Major".

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2018 2:54 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 May 2018 14:54:11 -0400

Either you have you’ve run into someone with stick up their behind or he’s pulled something from another military service which doesn’t really apply unless it’s in the Army regulations.
An E-4 through E-6 is called a Petty Officer in the Navy and the Coast Guard. However, a E-7 through E-9 is never referred to as just Petty Officer. It’s in the Coast Guard’s regulations that an E-7 shall be address as “Chief Petty Officer” or “Chief”; an E-8 shall be address as “Senior Chief Petty Officer” or “Senior Chief”; and an E-9 shall be addressed as “Master Chief Petty Officer” or “Master Chief”. I got called “MC” quiet a bit. It’s not standard but I don’t have any problem with it.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Jun 2 at 2018 11:22 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sat, 02 Jun 2018 23:22:13 -0400

At the risk of sounding "prideful" I will say from associating with Marines. The only sergeants we call Sergeant are Sergeants. Staff sergeants are addressed as Staff Sergeant of sometimes Staff. Gunnery Sergeants or Gunny, and so on. We also will refer to E-8 and above as Top. Master Gunnery Sergeant as Master Guns and pity the poor slob who does not address the Sergeant Major as Sergeant Major. We do this out of loving respect for the years of dedication it has taken to EARN these ranks and for the respect we have for ourselves and our Corps. -Among ourselves we may refer to the Sgt. Maj. as Smaj. but that is in private within the ranks. While I think it is rather petty of a senior Staff NCO to be so insecure as to "require" formal address, I also think it is rather disrespectful to NOT address a senior Staff NCO as just Sergeant. I also believe that such lackadaisical and laissez-faire leads to a lack of appreciation and respect for the efforts, achievements, and dedication to excellence that is concurrent with the rank held by that professional warrior. Of course, there is but one title that means the most to us. Simply that of MARINE. Just this humble Marines opinion.

Response by CWO2 James Mathews made Jun 4 at 2018 12:39 PM

CWO2 James Mathews — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:39:25 -0400

Not being totally familiar with other services and how they refer to their senior NCOs I can only really remark about the Navy. I hold the rank of a Master Chief (E-9) and as such, I was always addressed as a Master Chief. In my view, a Senior Chief and a Master Chief (E-8 and E-9), each have a different set of duties to a Chief (E-7). All have the title of "Chief," to be sure, however, again in my view, and in the view of all the senior officers that I have dealt with, each rank deserves to be addressed by his full rank, in recognition of his rank, duties, and responsibilities, just as all officers deserve to be saluted, regardless of their attitude, disposition toward enlisted, or their ability level. It is my understanding from my close association with the Marine Corps on a Nuclear support ship that similar rules are observed by the Corps, which I find to be just as justifiable as the Navy's procedures. In addition, my ego does not rebel if someone misses that title, nor have I ever felt as a Junior NCO that my seniors did not deserve the respect of their rank and standing in the command. That kind of an attitude is not good leadership, and tends to divide the enlisted from the officers and junior NCOs from the Seniors, just as surely as any severe breach of discipline! However, I must add that my very brief meeting with two Air Force Senior Seargents gave me some doubt as to the way the Air Force feels about their senior NCO's. As an E-6, I encountered one of my men who was drunk and the two AF Senior Sgts. (E-8), in an AF NCO Club, were amazed that I had the authority and effrontery to send a man back to the ship, asking me again who I was, and where had I gotten that kind of authority, when I challenged the man, and then sent him back to the ship to sober up, as I felt it was my duty to do, as his Section Leader. Obviously different services have different views. As a retired Navy NCO and former Chief Warrant Officer, I am quite satisfied with the rules I encountered during my service. Respectfully Submitted: Jim Mathews, TMCM (SS), CWO-2, USN (Ret.)

Response by Ken Kraetzer made Jun 4 at 2018 12:47 PM

Ken Kraetzer — Mon, 04 Jun 2018 12:47:43 -0400

First time I worked with a SCM at an event, called him Sergeant, was quickly corrected to call him Sergeant Major. Great guy in in ROTC instruction his grads email him from around the world for advice.

Response by SGT Rick Colburn made Jun 8 at 2018 11:32 AM

SGT Rick Colburn — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 11:32:10 -0400

IT IS CALLED R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Jun 10 at 2018 10:56 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Sun, 10 Jun 2018 22:56:09 -0400

He must have just made his rank and needs to feel important. The CO will take care of it and take him down a notch as well as the Sargeant Major. Now the Sargeant Major you call him by his full rank.

Response by SCPO Bruce Davis made Jun 22 at 2018 4:15 PM

SCPO Bruce Davis — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 16:15:38 -0400

This is neither here nor there, but I was career Seabee. Up until you make CPO in the Navy, you were addressed by your last name. It was cumbersome to call someone Third, Second, or First Class Petty Officer. Although during the latter part of Vietnam era that changed, during my early career your last name was enough — except on pay day. CPO’s and above are appointed by the Secretary of the Navy and are thereafter addressed as Chief. When you are promoted above that, in informal day to day business you are usually addressed as Senior or Master. In formal situations it was Senior Chief or Master Chief.

Response by MSgt J D McKee made Jun 24 at 2018 12:30 PM

MSgt J D McKee — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 12:30:39 -0400

Can't talk about the Amy, but during my time in the USAF, Sgt E4 to SMSgt E8 were called "Sergeant". CMSgt was called "Chief". The USAF stupidly dropped Warrant ranks before my time, and converted them to "super grade NCO's". Meaning the whole NCO chain took a jump up in responsibility and a downgrade in pay. And when dealing with other military organizations, authority, because the ranks do not translate any more.

I often wondered how officers would take it if everyone, from about Captain up, was called "general". So Captain=Captain General, then Major General, then Lt Col General, then Col General, and Brigadier General General and so on ---this is almost exactly what was done with NCO ranks in the USAF. So then, we'd start out with Captain General, and call everyone "General"....

But, the insistence on using a full, aggravating to say on a regular basis title does at least serve the valuable purpose of sorting out the arrogant for not much reason assholes.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 9:58 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 21:58:28 -0400

When I was on an Air Force base for Tech School, I would always call soldiers and airmen by their full ranks. They always seemed really surprised by it and I had a few people over the course of my time there say they liked that the Marines did that. To give full respect to each rank.

Response by MSG Justin Kuchar made Jun 25 at 2018 7:11 PM

MSG Justin Kuchar — Mon, 25 Jun 2018 19:11:58 -0400

AR 600-20 Army Command Policy (at least in 2000s when I was still in) outlined to address E8s by Sergeant unless local command policy differed. Many divisional elements had a formal policy letter.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2018 2:22 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jun 2018 14:22:46 -0400

I always call/called MSGs Master Sarn’t. I know what the reg says, it just never felt right to me. Of course I don’t break anyones’ balls for calling me Sarn’t because that’s what I am.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2018 9:33 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jun 2018 09:33:41 -0400

In my book the achievement is being an NCO. From CPL to SMA, they’ve always been the ones that saved our asses, haven’t they?

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Jul 1 at 2018 8:02 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:02:48 -0400

You will always find the egotistical ones. They haven’t decided to fit in with the rest of the Soldiers hooah

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Jul 1 at 2018 8:04 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 20:04:56 -0400

Agree Sir

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Jul 2 at 2018 2:30 AM

MSG Chuck Pewsey — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 02:30:38 -0400

I am/was one and I still can't get used to being addressed by the full title.

Response by SGT William Hawkins made Jul 2 at 2018 12:04 PM

SGT William Hawkins — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 12:04:51 -0400

AR 600-20 hasn’t changed.

Response by LTC John Sutherland made Jul 2 at 2018 1:53 PM

LTC John Sutherland — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 13:53:00 -0400

I did 25 years in the Army after three in the Marine Corps. I learned in the Marine Corps to always call someone by their full rank. They earned it, I appreciated it when people used my full rank. Might not be required in the Army but it was my personal practice.

Response by MSG(P) Thomas Finn made Jul 5 at 2018 8:49 PM

MSG(P) Thomas Finn — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 20:49:24 -0400

Respect. We need more of it in the Army!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 9:08 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 09:08:20 -0400

What I was taught coming in (and may be wrong, but makes sense to me) is there is a difference between addressing/talking to someone, and referring to someone. For example, when addressing them it would be "Sergeant Jones, can you teach me how to...." versus "So I was working with Master Sergeant Jones and he was teaching me how to..." When you are referring to someone, you use their full title in order to avoid any confusion on who you are speaking about and to show proper respect to their rank and position. It's no different than calling a Warrant Officer or Officer Sir/Ma'am when speaking to them but calling them by their full rank when referring to them.

Response by SGT James Clark made Jul 9 at 2018 10:06 PM

SGT James Clark — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 22:06:34 -0400

I believe that the Master Sergeant wanted to be called by his full rank. Therefore you call him Master Sergeant. Remember he out ranks you so show him the respect and move on.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 9 at 2018 10:56 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 22:56:34 -0400

COL Private RallyPoint Member Colonel, several years ago I attended memorial services for WO Rodarte, deceased, former Maintenance Warrant of the 4/160 Infantry, Santa Ana, CA, 40th ID, CAARNG.

Isaac often functioned as the Motor Officer of the BN.

At his memorial services, people were amazed when I referred to him as Mr Rodarte.

On occasion, I might have addressed him as Isaac, when I referred to him it was as Mr Rodarte. He wore a CIB and 3rd INF DIV patch from his service in Korea.

It is all about respect. CSM

Response by CSM William Payne made Jul 15 at 2018 7:09 PM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 15 Jul 2018 19:09:06 -0400

Recently saw a post where a CSM jumped on a Sergeant for addressing him as Sergeant Major, correcting the Soldier that he was a COMMAND Sergeant Major. BS, didn’t know CIF had hats that big. Common leaders, we can do much better than that.

Response by 1SG Donald Elmore made Jul 27 at 2018 11:21 AM

1SG Donald Elmore — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:21:58 -0400

I am a retired First Sergeant, but was a Master Sergeant for almost one year before getting a First Sergeant slot. As a Master Sergeant I expected to be called Sergeant, not Master Sergeant. I think that anyone that wants to be called Master Sergeant is on an ego trip.

Response by PO2 W Scott Decker made Aug 1 at 2018 2:53 PM

PO2 W Scott Decker — Wed, 01 Aug 2018 14:53:13 -0400

Okay Army guys just a suggestion from an Old Navy Salt. This reminds me of the whole idea of Chief. Now I know you guys call somebody a Sergeant once they make Sergeant. Yet in the Navy when somebody makes Master Chief E - 9 we give them credit when credit is do, we go the full title and I don't see any problem with giving them that respect, they are "Master Chief". Why not Master Sergeant?

Response by LTC Michael Sternfeld made Aug 5 at 2018 8:49 PM

LTC Michael Sternfeld — Sun, 05 Aug 2018 20:49:05 -0400

The older Army tradition prior to 2003 and the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom was always as is published in AR 600-20 to use the word Sergeant. But then after so many years of joint operations in Iraq and Afghanistan we were around our Marine brethren and the "Marine-ism" of using the NCOs full rank crept into oral usage. Now I am not a retied Marine, I am a retired Army LTC. So I don't know what the USMC version of AR600-20 says. I am just replying and stating what I know from personal experience.
I can tell you that in the 1966-69 period when I was a young solder who rose to the rank of SGT we called only two Sergeants by their full title when addressing them...the Company 1st Sgt and the BN or BDE SGM.
The same held true in the 1991 Gulf War (Operation Desert Storm) when I was an older and saltier MAJ activated from the USAR. I did not notice the change in speech pattern of Operation Iraqi Freedom until I arrived "In Theater" in April 2005.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2018 9:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Aug 2018 09:22:09 -0400

A little courtesy goes a long way. And showing someone the respect of calling them Master Sergeant doesn’t detract from anything.

Response by MSG Aubrey Shirley made Aug 26 at 2018 11:21 PM

MSG Aubrey Shirley — Sun, 26 Aug 2018 23:21:58 -0400

I have recently Retired, I am sure things continue to change. Before I Retired there more and more enlisted personnel addressing me as Master Sergeant, in lieu of Sergeant. I believe this another for of Respect. I didn't mind either way.
Thank You All for Your Service.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 18 at 2018 1:11 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Tue, 18 Sep 2018 13:11:48 -0400

Doesn’t hurt to use the full rank if your in doubt it is correct. We used abbreviations back in the day Gunnery Sgt was just Gunny , Master Gunny was Top, 1st Sgt and Sgt Major always by rank.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2019 11:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 23:54:48 -0400

I've been in since 08 and have always addressed msg by their full rank. It's nothing new by any means

Response by MSG William Hanes made Apr 7 at 2021 5:42 PM

MSG William Hanes — Wed, 07 Apr 2021 17:42:14 -0400

You are correct