Where should our Loyalties lie, with the Constitution or a Sitting POTUS??

SSgt Kevin Chavez — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:12:24 -0500

Leadership is handed over peacefully in this Country every 4 to 8 years. There will always be a divide between progressives and conservatives. With every administration, rules are challenged and the envelope of constitutionality is pushed further and further, especially in recent years. We have progressed, we have become better as a society and yes there needed to be changes throughout history, but where does it end? Have we peaked?? Is the progressive movement pushing too far? Have conservatives given up too much and where is that line? Is there work to do, I believe so. Have people become to reliant on the Government, have we given too much power to the Government. I still hold the Pledge of Allegiance in high regard, and my favorite part is the last line and will always be a guiding principle to this Conservative Marine Veteran. "With Liberty and Justice for All". So I argue that our loyalty should always lie with the Constitution first. Semper Fidelis

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 31 at 2015 3:41 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 15:41:46 -0500

Our Service Oath is actually very straight forward on the matter.

The Officer service oath does not include mention of the President at all, just the Supporting and Defending of the Constitution.

The Enlisted Oath also includes following the orders of the President and all Officers appointed over us, but following orders is not the same as loyalties. Supporting and Defending the Constitution however is.

The President also swears and Oath on the Constitution.

So all that said, everything goes back to the Constitutions.

Presidential Oath of Office:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Officers Oath:

"I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

Enlisted Oath:

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So although the Sitting President is the "Representative" (important distinction) Head of State and Commander In Chief, we are Sworn to the Country as a whole, not to a single individual.

Response by SFC Scott Fifield made Jan 31 at 2015 5:06 PM

SFC Scott Fifield — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:06:44 -0500

Loyalty to the Constitution. The document has defined and kept us safe and strong as a country and people for over 200 years. On one individual should ever be allowed to violate or go against our Constitution. Semper Fi.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 5:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:10:53 -0500

As Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS stated, my oath is too the Constitution.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 5:11 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 17:11:25 -0500

Can I vote both? Obviously first and foremost, we swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. Then, right along with that, the President is our Commander in Chief and is due our respect and our loyalty as members of the military he commands.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 6:10 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:10:23 -0500

Our great nation expects us to place allegiance to the Constitution above any other civic obligation, political allegiance etc. That having now been said if any POTUS diverges or violates the constitution it is the job of the 2 other branches of govt to render an immediate on the spot correction.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 31 at 2015 6:46 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:46:52 -0500

This is a rhetorical question, correct? I'll just assume it is and give you a thumbs up.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Jan 31 at 2015 9:43 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:43:46 -0500

Always to the Constitution and the oath that we took. We also have to remember that POTUS during his/her inauguration swears to uphold the constitution, so in all actuality, we are swearing to do the same. I really don't think it is an either or question since we are supposed to be in alignment.

If we are not, then either the President will get impeached, and those in the military will have to be discharged.

Response by MSG Dan Foster made Feb 18 at 2015 10:40 AM

MSG Dan Foster — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 10:40:45 -0500

SSgt Kevin Chavez, I agree that our loyalty should always lie with the Constitution first but, it seems the interpretation and original intent is being challenged every time it stands in the way of a political ideology. Sadly, when a challenge ends up in the courts there is no guarantee a Judges interpretation won't be biased by political ideology as well. Our way of governing is not perfect but from what I have seen it's still the best thing going. But, given what has transpired over the last fourteen years, especially the last six, we have become even less perfect on many levels.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2015 11:09 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:09:54 -0500

Primary loyalty lies with the Constitution.

If an elected official violates the constitution, we have a duty and an obligation to oppose that elected official.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 1:45 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 01:45:39 -0400

Both, as long as POTUS is upholding his oath of office. Any order given against the Constitution would be an unlawful order.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 18 at 2015 3:15 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 03:15:45 -0400

This issue tends to be very heated. There are those who believe that the Constitution must be read in a strict, fundamentalist way, and followed exactly as the framers intended it.

Of course, that's not possible, because the framers established a system whereby the Constitution can change, grow, adapt and be interpreted by the Court.

So, what we have today is the natural outgrowth of what the framers built, even if it is not interpreted or followed in any way that the framers meant when they wrote it...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2015 9:57 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:57:45 -0400

I swore an oath to the Constitution, and later to obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over me.
They should never be at odds, certainly not as it applies to an order I was given.
Should that conflict occur, it would be a very dark day in the USA.

This has happened before, you know. Several Constitutional provisions were suspended during the Civil War by Abraham Lincoln.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Mar 20 at 2015 8:14 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:14:30 -0400

I 100% agree the constitution first.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Mar 20 at 2015 8:15 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Fri, 20 Mar 2015 20:15:29 -0400

Beside the oath is to constitution not the president. We follow the orders of the president but locality to the constitution.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 31 at 2016 10:18 AM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:18:28 -0500

Forgive me for being late to the conversation. I'm in the midst of reading an eight volume biography of Winston Churchill and the following quote inspired me to ask a similar question:

‘I know what is troubling you. It is loyalty to the Service and loyalty to the State. You must realise that loyalty to the State must come before loyalty to the Service.’

To understand the import of Churchill's advice to a friend, you have to make adjustments for the cultural and political differences between Britain and America. Britain doesn't have a constitution like ours. Theirs is an aggregation of laws passed by Parliament over the centuries. It is mutable. Rights given by law may be removed by law. And the "State" is represented by the Crown.

In our case, the state is the Constitution. People may die. The land may be occupied. Even the constitutional document itself may be torn asunder or burned, but the Constitution is forever.

In our case, the President is actually part of "the service". The President sits at the head of the service as its Commander-in-Chief.

Thus, I believe that Churchill's advice answers our question admirably. Our loyalty is to the Constitution and we will follow the President, to the very gates of Hell if necessary, so long as he also remains loyal to it.

Response by LCpl Steve Smith made Apr 17 at 2016 5:58 PM

LCpl Steve Smith — Sun, 17 Apr 2016 17:58:26 -0400

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. comes before

and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. ;)

Remember an Unlawful Order is an Unlawful Order no matter who gives it! If the POTUS ordered the military to kill the "Families" of Terrorists Like Trump would like us to do if he becomes POTUS That order is an Unlawful Order. I would not Fallow that Order even if it cost me my military career. (I know I'm a Vet But if i was still active that would be my stance). Our Job is to defend and protect the innocent, Not go in with the motto Kill everything in sight.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Apr 18 at 2016 2:37 AM

SGM Joel Cook — Mon, 18 Apr 2016 02:37:17 -0400

As stated previously our loyalties should lie with the Constitution first and obey the orders of the president. The President also swears an oath to do the best of his ability, to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. Failure of the POTUS to live up to this oath leaves him open to impeachment. For example if the President makes a treaty with a foreign nation or nations and does not have it ratified by congress he has broken his oath and left himself open to impeachment according to the constitution.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 18 at 2016 2:49 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:49:58 -0400

Review your oath of enlistment. No brainer. CONSTITUTION

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Apr 18 at 2016 2:56 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 18 Apr 2016 14:56:13 -0400

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign or domestic". Nothing in there about supporting or defending a president or administration....as it should be. The US Military is not a Praetorian Guard, who role and purpose is to prop up a particular leader.

Response by SGT Mary G. made Dec 21 at 2020 4:39 PM

SGT Mary G. — Mon, 21 Dec 2020 16:39:13 -0500

I can't believe anyone would actually ask that question!

Response by SGT James Picard made Jan 3 at 2021 6:02 PM

SGT James Picard — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 18:02:26 -0500

I totally agree.

Response by PO1 William Nelson made Sep 2 at 2021 1:01 AM

PO1 William Nelson — Thu, 02 Sep 2021 01:01:36 -0400

There are no government funded programs, unless the government is making and selling a product for profit of which I am unaware, barring that all government programs are taxpayer funded programs. In that light, it seems the current tax system is a system for the redrisbutation of wealth but not before the politicians take their cut.

Loyalty has been and always will be to the Constitution, I swore an oath to the Constitution, not the president.