Where would one go to find out about an Apache incentive flight?

2018-05-16T17:26:24-04:00

Where would one go to find out about an incentive flight? I know it has to climb the chain all they up to BG but could some one point me to the right direction, so I can attempt to try for an Apache incentive flight?

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 16 at 2018 6:34 PM

2018-05-16T18:34:53-04:00

I sent my soldiers flying with the Medevac choppers. I checked for their helmets, tags, and a barf bag.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 16 at 2018 8:34 PM

2018-05-16T20:34:55-04:00

I know this might not be what youdmwamt to hear, and I can fathom why, of course, however, wherever you're assigned, there must, I'd think, be off installation flight schools that might included rotary wing. I gather you're asking to seek to be allowed it, as you'd want to apply for the program, I get that, however, in all the time I was USAF, I only !knew one guy in the BOQ we we were both in, who'd gotten a chance to go up in a T-38 for a check ride when he was on his summer training during AFROTC. Honestly, if you want to see what rotary wing is like, my honest, fastest suggestion, would be to try to seek out a private school, and ask for an orientation ride, if they've got rotary wing. Wherever you are, also, there might be a mil aero club ,htee was one where I was, I did go up in fixed wing at least once, I reclp, maybe twice, however, I was utterly abysmal about using the program there for the private pilot ground school, if there's a chance you fan make use of a mil aero club by you, use it, for God's sake, if it's available, get the private pilot, insstrement rating, multiengine rating, and maybe the commerifla license. I've obv heard that learning flight is easier going from rotary wing to fixed wing thereafter due to conditioning of reflexes, I have no idea if that old chestnut is true, however, a check ride in rotary wing at a private school might set you back what? A few hundred bucks? I'm not saying it's the same thing, I realize it's not, my only point is, it might be a whole lot easier to try to get a chance to do, assuming a place by you might do it for the cash, for however long half and hour, an hour, whatever. Second, if you go to those lengths to try to do a private school check or orientation ride, plus do mil aero club, if there's one by you, or evenFAA sport pilot, which I gather costs a whole lot less then private pilot, though you might have to go for an FAA physical, which would possibly mean asking if you could do it from your chain, perhaps, I don't know what the rules about that are for active duty. You'd need to ask in advance, and find an FAA rated physician near you, if it'd be allowed, or if your own installation can't do it, of it might not be coverable, that's why spyou should ask before doing any of this, certainly, it certainly couldn't hurt on your resume when submitting for WOCS. I only suggest you ask as, if you ask, and say you're willing to eat the cost of going up on your own, just to see if you'd even like flight, that might convince tour chain to actually ask to get you such an incentive flight, that's obv my only point. I couldn't go pilot due to my eyes, I saw the UPT/UNT guys at USAF OTS, I often wished I'd gone in as UNT, I couldnt, USAF for some crazy reason, wouldn't let under 20/100 apply, I was 20/200, I tried for Navy NFO, I did the flight med, I passed at a nav air station near where I was, I just never got ten chance to try for interservice, going Army rotary nav/WSO I never tried. Also, you might be able to get nav/WSO, not pilot, the first go round, if you get it, go...if you can submit for USAF drone enlisted pilot, as an incentive, if that'd help you try for Army WOCS, I only mention that as a thought, I don't know if Army uses drone enlisted pilots. Another thought is Civil Air Patrol (CAP), CAP owns their own aircraft, I've read or heard that CAP members, which I think active duty can join, I spent time with a CAP cadet/senior mixed squadron where I was, they have some kind of flight program for cadets, I don't know if they allow reduced rates for senior members. The USCG Auxiliary also uses observers on their own aircraft, you could ask about spending time with them, as well, though they don't own their own planes as a corporation the way CAP does, USCG Aux uses individual member planes and boats, apparently, also, USCG Uax is classed as an instrumentality of the USCG, CAP isn't one of the USAF, both doe reap tasked missions, however the legal aspects are different under the Genemva Convention, I merely explain that for info, I've wanted to do both since my total perm disability, I've never been able, the disability keeps getting in the way, I just figured you might find looking at both of interest, provided there's a CAP senior or cadet squadron by you, or a USCG aviation flotilla, as their units are called. Next, apart from the flight school stuff, elaborate if you can as to your college, AP coursework in high school, whether you've gotten a DANTES or Amer Council on Education (ACE) military transcript yet, have you dine your associates at alp, anything toward your bachelors? If so, what degrees if any? What grades? ZGPA? Major? sTEM topic at all? I only ask to try to suggest things to enhance you with Army for WOCS, which I've heard is a really, really rough program, I'm not saying that to dissuade, merely to relate what I've heard and/or read, there's an interesting true film illmsend, about the first female Army enlisted to go through it with Patty Duke, done yes ago. I realize Army WOCS only needs high school, I merely thought to suggest things that might help you get in. Also, since your clearly helicopter maintenance, I gather, have you gotten your FAA airframe and powerplant (A&P) license yet at all? I merely always wondered if enlisted going for aircraft maintenance in any svc, Army included, ever was reqd to get that, as well as an FCC genl radiotelephone operators license (GROL), with radar endorsement, possibly. Do a detailed bio sketch if you can, coursework, grades, GPA major, ambitions, objectives, hobbies reading, interests, sports, martial arts, the more you related the more I might be able to suggest, as could others possibly, OK? I hope that helps...also, if you're bachelors level, or aiming for it, have you thought about trying for a regular OCS or OIS (indoc) program! At all? Look not just at USAF or Navy, also USCG, USMC, and also the NOAA Corps flight program, they're small and really selective, I think there's a five year commitment for NOAA Corps, I'll try to send you some links that you mug find of use, OK? I'd be most eager to hear more, epwhenever time permits, I hope that helped, honest....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 16 at 2018 8:35 PM

2018-05-16T20:35:19-04:00

http://www.ocsfoundation.org

You might find this of use....

OCS Foundation

SERVICES FOR: Candidates Alumni Officer Families

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 16 at 2018 8:39 PM

2018-05-16T20:39:43-04:00

https://www.omao.noaa.gov/

Look at this, many don't know about it, their OCS is the BOTC, a tenant unit at USMMA Kings Point, I saw it when my brother graduated there I commissioned him, I wandered through the BOTC he didn't go that route he was USMS Merchant Marine Reserve (USNR-MMR), however, I did walk through just out of interest, that was qlp, I found it really interesting, honest....

Office of Marine and Aviation Operations |

Learn about the NOAA Diving Program, which trains, certifies, and equips personnel to safely support underwater missions

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2018 3:18 PM

2018-05-20T15:18:51-04:00

I've never heard of anything more than an apache incentive "hover". And the guys that got to do it didn't ask for it. Their chain just granted it to them for hard work. I'm pretty sure that's how it works for any incentive flight, at least that's how mine have been.

Response by SGT Todd Hooper made Jul 4 at 2018 2:45 PM

2018-07-04T14:45:42-04:00

When our guard unit switched from AH-64a to AH-64d models in 2010 they used the last two remaining aircraft to give about 20 incentive flights, mostly to those who had been on the Afghanistan deployment 4 years earlier. A handful (maybe 7-8) were granted to newer valued Crewcheifs who were full-timers. The flights all were administered by 2 approved unit flight instructors.

Our flights were 30 minutes long and covered a couple hundred miles and a lot of altitude. Once we were up in the air and off the airfield, I was handed the controls for the remainder of the flight. The Instructor talked me through the entire flight and only took over again right before landing (after a short hover attempt was attempted, a little less skillfully, haha). He challenged me to try a few maneuvers including a 30 degree bank turn, (feels like you’re going to fall out the window) which didn’t require as much skill as they did guts. I was incredibly grateful to the unit and that test pilot. As a crewcheif of 9 years, I learned that the machine I had maintained flies like a Ferrari sports car in the rotary wing world. This gave me a whole new respect for my job, my aircraft, and even the flight instructor who took me up. (He was one of the more curmudgeonly and finicky pilots to work with, as a ground crew. Then he was a total bad ass and incredibly friendly in the air, which was a shock because of how strict and hard liner he was on the ground. To think, I was actually bemoaning that I was assigned him as my pilot.)

I immediately began considering flight school seriously and finally put my packet together after 3-4 years of prodding from a handful of our pilots and leaders. In the end, I separated to finish college. Then I was got married and the misses asked me not to join up again.

I share all this to illustrate:
1. Our incentive flights were way, Way more than just a hover. It was an absolutely breathtaking, once-in-a-lifetime experience; and one worth pushing for!

2. We (enlisted, and leadership) pushed for incentive flights a few times, starting in 2005 after returning from Afghanistan. We were denied, if I recall correctly, twice. Then finally granted them in 2010, four years later when transferring out our old fleet that was headed to depot for conversion to delta models. For some reason this was an easier time for our leaders to justify it. (We couldn’t break any of the planes we need to maintain operational readiness?)

3. These served a real purpose for the unit leadership. They seemed to be trying to recruit for flight school internally (although they were NOT restricting who received the flights, a few old guys went). They were also losing a lot of their experienced members who were disenchanted with the unit complexion and leaving the unit for various reasons. This was a time of upheaval, not long after command staff and leadership changes that had created somewhat of a caustic environment. I think this may have made the whole affair easier to justify to the new command staff. (A few of which had been on the deployment and pushed for the incentive flights the first two times.)

I think the timing and environment has to be right for the Army to be willing to assume the risk. Keep planting the seed and back it up with sound reasoning. (retention of critical staff, recruiting known known personnel for flight school, etc.)

If you build this case now, and plant the seed, keep pushing for it, then when the environment is right, all of the stars may finally align. It might have to wait until those who are passionate about it now to be promoted to positions of real influence with the BG.

The point I hope to make is this — because the BG and even big Army had to approve it — a request by one individual is dead in the water before it starts. This is a unified effort where you get a critical mass on board and sold on the idea, then together they build a plan for top brass to grant a certain number of slots all at once. It’s important to detail it out as much as possible, so they see the logistics are manageable, probably right down to selection of personnel, and unit risk assessments. (It also happened in a lull, when not many people were tuned in to what the unit was doing. It seems like it was kept quiet so that 20 slots when a long way. It couldn’t have happened during pre-mob or post-mob, or even within a year of each. Every damn body who wasn’t maintenance would’ve had a conniption fit and tried to shut it down because it isn’t “fair”. As evidenced by he fate of our first request. I actually think Our unit command was afraid of reprisals.