Which is the better route, enlisting and completing my degree or graduating and then getting a commission?

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 08:02:55 -0500

I am a current member of the NC Air National Guard. I have been in for 2 years and I am finally getting back into college. I have finished my first year and enrolling for my second year. I'm 21 years old and my goal is to commission. As an enlistee, my job is Engineering Apprentice (EA) and want to continue to follow that path as an Air Force Civil Engineer officer. As I continue through college.. I think about following the path of enlisted as an EA so I can start my career now and commit my full 20 years to hopefully make E-9, or I stick it out and get an engineering/architecture degree to commission as a Civil Engineer in 4 years.

My uncle, a retired CMSgt, and my aunt, a Air Guard Captain, both tell me that the best thing for me to do is commission first then go active duty. I have also spoken to the Cadre's at my school for AFRTOC, they advised me to just get any degree and commission to be a pilot. But that isn't what I want to do. I love my job in the field of engineering, its what I'm good at.

I know I'm young, I know I'm being impatient, but I am truly wondering if the enlisted route without a degree is just the better option for me. So I'm curious, I've always heard that even enlisted folks have college degrees to make themselves more competitive for promotions. So that is also a reason I've stayed in college thus far.

Will having a degree enlisted make me more competitive for promotional slots?
Should I go active now and just take online classes?
Should I stay in college, get my degree, and commission active duty?

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Jan 22 at 2018 8:10 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 08:10:23 -0500

To commission, you will need a degree. Beyond that, follow your heart and your career desires. Set your goal then go for it. Whether or not a degree will make you more competitive is not in my knowledge bank. Things have changed since my day. I wish you well.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Jan 22 at 2018 8:39 AM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 08:39:27 -0500

First, to answer your questions:

1. Yes, having a degree as an enlisted Servicemember WILL make you more competitive for promotion.
2. That's one option.
3. This is the option *I* would choose if I were you - "Stay in college, get your degree, and commission active duty.

Now, there's something to be said for being enlisted for awhile first, but its by no means a requirement. If you want to stay in and retire, the Officer side is more comfortable and you have more opportunities to make a difference in bigger ways.

If you have more questions, let me know, I'm happy to provide what experience and help I can.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jan 22 at 2018 8:51 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 08:51:01 -0500

A couple of answers. Yes, civilian education does count towards enlisted promotions, but not a lot. If you are serious about a commission, my advice would be to finish your second year of college, join ROTC during your Junior year, your MOS should exempt you from the first two years, and stay in a SMP program with your current Guard Unit. The SMP program will promote you to E-5 pay grade and you don't lose TIS with you are a Cadet. Then complete the last two years, get your degree and a commission. This also still allows you to use any state educational benefits and still get drill pay too.
Don't know how the Air Force does an officers wish list for jobs. The Army tries to give you your first choice, but it's the Needs of the Service and there are no guarantees.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Jan 22 at 2018 11:37 AM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:37:43 -0500

E9 in 20 in the USAF? WTH are you smoking up there in NC? Stay in the Guard, get your education, then get a commission. Going to school on AD is difficult, when family and unit are factored in. Another consideration is that no matter what is said, a lot of units have issues with their members going to school.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 22 at 2018 11:45 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:45:48 -0500

I normally tell people who pose this kind of question to first decide what their life goals are and then make life-changing decisions such as joining the military or starting college. I'm skipping that lecture with you because you asked some specific questions that deserve a clear answer based on the information you provided.
"Will having a degree enlisted make me more competitive for promotional slots?" I think the answer is yes, but current and recently retired senior enlisted people can provide a better answer than I.
"Should I go active now and just take online classes?" No. You said your goal was to be an engineering officer. The quickest path to that goal is getting your degree as soon as you can and gaining a commission. If you have the capability to go to school full-time now, do it."
"Should I stay in college, get my degree, and commission active duty?" Yes. If you can afford financially to get your degree, do it. If you have the academic capability to complete an engineering degree, good for you! (I spent one year in the "college of pre-liberal arts".)
You also inferred, Should I be a pilot? Maybe. I thought I wanted to be an intelligence officer when I was a college Freshman and Sophomore. I had some experience with flying with the Civil Air Patrol, but had decided I didn't want to be a pilot. I was in AFROTC. My Professor of Aerospace Science, who was a private pilot, took me on a ride in his Cessna and convinced that I could fly and should fly for the Air Force. I subsequently applied for a two-year AFROTC scholarship as a pilot student, won the scholarship, and went on to commission and complete pilot training. Never did become an Intel Officer, which was good because I suck at foreign languages.

If you want to be an engineering officer, your should also look outside of the Air Force. The Army and Navy use officers with engineering degrees in organizations that do engineer work. They build roads, bridges, airfields, ports, and structures; oversee major engineering projects in the Army Corps of Engineers. The Army, Air Force, and Navy do use engineer officers in their research and development commands. Each Service focuses on various type of R&D based on their missions. All of the services have some type of civil engineering or public works organization at their installations. These organizations may supervise or perform some engineering functions, but many mostly manage contracts to get the real work done by outside contractors. For example, most AF bases have contracts to maintain the grounds and keep the grass mowed.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jan 22 at 2018 11:50 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:50:38 -0500

I held two promotion papers in my hands. One to E-5, one to O-1. I picked the later for several reasons, including more money and opening many more opportunities that I wouldn't have had going the ENL route. My advice is to focus on the big rocks and getting them behind you soonest. One big caution. Make sure your degree is ABET EAC credentialed, NOT ABET ETAC. That will be a career ender on the officer side if professional registration is required to make O-4/5 like it is in my designator. Also remember the long game. You'll want the Service to put you through your MS program later as you'll want that pedigree check mark too. One of the common things I've seen is interest in an officer career and not looking at all the hard work you'll have to do other than mission to make it happen. You'll always be doing some sort of school. Same on the ENL slide to a degree. As soon as you've taken the BLC, you get asked why you haven't taken ALC yet. It'll never end.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jan 22 at 2018 4:22 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 16:22:18 -0500

First, stay in school and get your degree. Second, talk with an Air Force Recruiting Officer about potential programs that night grease the path to a commission while you are in school. Don't know if the Air Force has them, but I know the Navy/Marine Corps had programs that credited college time toward service time for pay and promotion purposes.

Response by LCDR Robert S. made Jan 23 at 2018 8:45 AM

LCDR Robert S. — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 08:45:58 -0500

I'm going to start with my most important point. While you're in school make sure you take full advantage of your summers. I can see two good ways for you to do this (and maybe a third): the first is to work in your field - if you can find internships with companies that will let you learn actual engineering, great - if not, the construction industry has *lots* of extra work in the summer, and you can probably find jobs that are more engineering than grunt work. The second is to take classes and get your degree sooner. The third I'm not sure about, because my experience is active & reserve, and I don't know if the Guard has a mechanism for working full-time other than when activated - if they do, jump on them - it will make you look good for promotions, it will get you more experience, and it will earn you more retirement credit (yes, I know, you're only 21, but I wish I had known when I was 17 some of the things I learned about retirement when I was 35 - it's never to early to start planning for retirement - not to focus on it, but just to be aware that it's there). In short, summer vacations are for children, and you're an adult now, so you should be using your summers like you're using the rest of the year - to pursue your goals.

Now, on to your questions, starting with your last one first. YES! Stay in college and get your degree. Even if you're really self-motivated, you'll get more out of it sitting in the classroom, interacting with your peers and your professors, and taking advantage of all the things that happen at college that you don't get from the online experience. That answers your second question - no, get your degree, then go active. Getting a degree is a lot harder when you're working a full-time job (and even harder than that when you're working a more-than-full-time job like the military). I don't know the answer for the ANG or AF whether a degree helps for promotion, but I can guarantee that it won't hurt.

And finally, regarding the AFROTC cadre you spoke to at school - pursue your own goals and dreams, not theirs. Sure, the primary function of the Air Force is to drop bombs on targets, and the glory jobs go to the jet jockeys - but they can't do anything without the rest of the support team. That said, there are engineering jobs in the other services as well. Yes, you know Air Force side of things from your time in the ANG, but when it comes time to seek a commission, look at everybody. I enlisted in the Navy while I was still in high school, but when I decided to pursue a commission, I looked at everyone's programs. When I went to the reserves after 11 years active, I looked at everybody's programs. I wound up staying Navy in both cases, because that was what worked best for me then, but if one or two things had been different, I could definitely see myself in a different service, in a different career field.