Which would you prefer for Physical Fitness in the Army: CrossFit vs. PRT?

2016-01-08T14:42:39-05:00

If the Army revamped the PT program, would you like to see the incorporation of CrossFit or "Functional Fitness" ?

I am of the opinion that CrossFit is the way ahead for physical fitness in the Army. I have been a part of a unit that strictly adhered to PRT and the overall level of physical fitness within that unit was underwhelming.

I began CrossFit when I PCS'd to my current unit, as it is the primary fitness program. Using myself as the guinea pig, in the past year, I found enormous improvements in various areas to include strength, speed and endurance. I attribute it entirely to the CrossFit PT program that we adhere to.

Assuming the Army went about it correctly (training/certifying leaders through CrossFit Inc., providing proper equipment, incorporating a dietary program) I think the Army as a whole would see great improvements in Soldier wellness and fitness. Thoughts?

Attached is the study produced by the Army in 2010.

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_USArmy_Study.pdf

Response by SSG Kelly Ferguson made Jan 8 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-01-08T14:57:48-05:00

If you look at in combat terms CrossFit YES,
I I have never had to run 2 miles in combat or sit-ups and or push-ups. The way the muscle are conditioned in CrossFit goes into play so I'm for CrossFit

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 3:01 PM

2016-01-08T15:01:17-05:00

Hands down. Yes.

I'd have to do some more digging, but I believe last year or in 2014 there was a study done to compare soldiers in similar physical shape after one group adhered to just PRT and those who did crossfit.

But, let's be honest everyone knows that if you just do PRT, without more physical training on the outside or implementing more cross training it prepares you to just meet the minimum. Does push you further.

CrossFit is amazing. I did it whole in college and while I was at BOLC. LOVED IT! I was in the best shape of my life and rocked my PT test. Now... I unfortunately live 40 minutes away from the closest crossfit, have a newborn and work 8-5. Getting there is would be next to impossible if I wanted to maintain my sanity, rest and spend time with my child.

I miss you crossfit.... I miss you!!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 3:07 PM

2016-01-08T15:07:33-05:00

I will retire before I allow the Army to make me do CrossFit. One word: Rhabdomylosis... Look here: https://medium.com/@ericrobertson/crossfits-dirty-little-secret-97bcce70356d#.e61o14s2l

CrossFit’s Dirty Little Secret

Everyone has an uncle they’d rather you not meet.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-01-08T15:09:46-05:00

I agree that is has to implemented the correct way. I've been doing CrossFit for some time now, Level 1 certified, and volunteer coach at the local box a few days a week. I'm a strong believer in the CrossFit methodology, as you are constantly shocking the body, you are never isolating one muscle group. You consistently get stronger, faster, more endurance. Because through CrossFit you never let your body get comfortable. After all it is constantly varied, functional movements, executed at a high intensity.

I do believe that Serious CrossFit athletes are the fittest people in the world. I also agree that there are a ton of alpha male/female types in the military, that will hurt themselves quickly, if not performing the exercises correctly. Olympic lifting is very technical.

Training by certified instructors is paramount to ensure that all Soldiers can benefit from these types of work outs.

Last thing, I also like that CrossFit is universally scalable, meaning everyone can do the same workout, some soldiers will use different weights than others.

I like your post LT, I wish the army would take a hard look at this.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 3:32 PM

2016-01-08T15:32:20-05:00

Yeah PRT was designed for the NEW generation of soldiers. My body does not respond to PRT. I'm old school as are many of us here on Rallypoint. I like Crossfit but I wouldn't want to do it with people who don't like it, I can hear them whining right now. I think PT back in the day was fine the way it was.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jan 8 at 2016 4:37 PM

2016-01-08T16:37:22-05:00

At the end of the day, the PFT/PRT/(or whatever your branch calls it) is merely a way to measure some baseline physical condition. I do agree that there is always a good/better/best way to DEVELOP one's strength & endurance. But, when it comes to administering a fitness test to 300+ people at a time, the PFT will continue to be the baseline for all: It's efficient.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 5:03 PM

2016-01-08T17:03:35-05:00

Crossfit is a great program if done correctly. So is PRT.
I do both.
The problem with both but more with Cross Fit is the potential for injury is pretty high when the exercises are not done exactly right. That is a pretty bid deal when you have a company or platoon out in the grass and can't watch everyone all of the time.
I think both are much better with about a 5:1 follower to leader ratio.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 7:47 PM

2016-01-08T19:47:24-05:00

Ma'am, I am on the fence with crossfit. I just started messing around with it but I only perform the functional lifts and movements. The ones that I know are the safest for my body and my joints. I don't agree with the butterfly or kipping pull ups or hand stand push ups. I do all of my stuff strict. I think that it's better, healthier and safer for the joints. I am not a MRT but I have 2 degrees in the body and have been an athlete all of my life so my opinions may be a little slanted. Fitness in itself is a lifestyle and if forced on those who only participate in fitness because of the fact that they are in the Army are the ones that I would be careful with. They are more prone to injuries. There is definitely benefits in the program and in PRT as well. I normally perform PRT before my heavy lifts to warm up. So, there are pros and cons. This would be an interesting and probably hard topic to push.

Now, in my current unit we have been issued fitbits and while they aren't the most accurate, they certainly help. Keeps you accountable for being active every day. A lot of money, yes, so maybe something else could be figured out but even something as small as this could help improve fitness as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:59 PM

2016-01-08T21:59:31-05:00

Ma'am
Crossfit would be beneficial if done correctly but many times it is not. If there are trainers for each platoon with correct training, it could work.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 10:45 PM

2016-01-08T22:45:34-05:00

I am not a fan of PRT at all. I like Cross Fit even less. One thing that always strikes me to be honest. I have been in the Army about 14 years now. The strength of our soldiers in the past was not an issue. I was in Iraq as a scout in 2003 carrying 100+ pounds of gear. I didn't need either. But I knew how to get in shape. Now a days I don't think that is the cause. You have soldiers that don't get out and move so we are running into the issues we are seeing now. I don't believe that either one is perfect for the full force either. I work where we train soldiers for master fitness. They know a lot but then even the master fitness don't all train the same way. Fitness should be tailored to the person but they all should be able to achieved a set expectation. What makes me able to get a 300 may not be the most effective means to train. We should really focus on enabling our soldiers and educating them.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jan 8 at 2016 10:54 PM

2016-01-08T22:54:23-05:00

Just adding some more PRT/CrossFit discussions to the mix for those interested:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/prt-or-crossfit-which-do-you-think-provides-better-results

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/crossfit-vs-prt-army-to-conduct-biggest-crossfit-study-ever-which-will-come-out-on-top

https://www.rallypoint.com/topics/prt/answers/is-prt-really-as-good-as-people-seem-to-thing-it-is

PRT or CrossFit? Which do you think provides better results? | RallyPoint

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-01-09T11:58:33-05:00

PRT was designed to be functional. The other criteria was that it had to be able to administered using D&C commands to a company of basic trainees with minimal use of external equipment or resources. Remember that the doctrine has to be applicable to 1.1 million Soldiers in a variety of specialties and jobs from the AC and RC. Cross fit and other programs are great for smaller groups if done correctly to prevent injury. PRT was specifically designed to prevent injury in new accessions. There are ways to increase the intensity if your results are underwhelming once the basics are established. The Army is currently developing job specific functional standards. But it's taking longer than it should. Addressing the lack of a functional fitness test should be a higher priority than revamping a PRT program that hasn't been fully institutionally inculcated yet IMO.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 11:59 AM

2016-01-09T11:59:51-05:00

CrossFit might be a good program for those fit enough and disciplined enough to know and execute proper form during exercises to reduce injury. But CrossFit in the big Army would translate to preventable injuries, because the Army is not filled, in general, with those fit enough and disciplined enough to know and execute proper form during exercises. The Army has more than 1.1 million uniformed members; PRT provides a baseline fitness program for the Total Force that CrossFit simply can't match.

Clearly, however, studies have shown that CrossFit--if done properly--can result in enormous fitness gains. I'd guess studies have shown that PRT done correctly (or, really, any fitness program done correctly) can result in enormous fitness gains. I'm lucky--I've been out of the big Army since 2008, and I've had the opportunity to actually use my MFT certification and other acquired knowledge to develop a fitness program that works for me. I don't do PRT; I prep for the APFT for a couple weeks every six months (meaning I run and do situps only in prep for the APFT). I don't do CrossFit, though---I've never tried it; just overwhelmingly too much literature and too many studies showing how CrossFit breaks people. Yet, I totally agree that for those in shape, trained, and disciplined, PRT (as improperly executed by the big Army, in general) is a pretty terrible program that isn't going to generate improved levels of fitness.

I'd prefer the following:
1) That the APFT situp event be replaced with something not proven to cause back and neck injuries. The run and pushups are fine; maybe add a pull-up event to the APFT, and maybe a plank event for measuring ab strength.
2) That there be one standard for the APFT, not dozens of standards based on gender and age norming.
3) That more emphasis be placed on the Triad of Performance. The Army is on the right path with its Triad of Performance project. Transforming Army culture to prioritize proper nutrition, rest, and exercise will have exponentially greater impact on fitness than changing the fitness program from PRT to anything else.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2016 4:03 PM

2016-01-09T16:03:22-05:00

You will never find a workout that works for all units. That is why we always say that PT is for esprit de corps and the APFT is your own personal responsibility. If I had it my way we would do Billy Blanks one day, Insanity 3 days, and 1SG smoke sessions on Friday.

Much different than all the other people on here and we all have opinions.....officers love those 6 mile runs and Top seems to love smoke sessions.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 4:22 PM

2016-01-11T16:22:23-05:00

I have a negative view of Crossfit. The chance for injuries is high, especially when a given unit will have varying levels of fitness among its Soldiers.

PRT is meant to provide a minimum level of fitness. You're not really going to excel under strict PRT. Soldiers should be doing more in their free time to excel on the APFT. Additionally, I've used PRT as a tool to instill confidence to Soldiers. I feel that getting a Soldier in front of a formation and issuing simple commands is beneficial.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2016 4:47 PM

2016-01-11T16:47:00-05:00

I am currently in the 3 ID and a couple of years ago when GEN Abrams commanded the division he pushed crossfit. All the companies in the division have crossfit stuff, bumber plates, kettle bells, etc. Spent a crazy amount of money for all the equipment. All anyone does around here is crossfit, the thing is, they only do the WODs they like. Who doesn't want to do Fran every frickin day....THIS GUY!!! I see absolutely no difference in the physical fitness of Soldiers in this division than any Soldiers in other divisions.

If you are a leader or if your higher leaders make you do nothing but PRT because the Army says that's the physical training we are supposed to do, it's a damn shame. Leaders should be incorporating functional exercises, aerobic conditioning and strength exercises to include battle focused physical training. P.T. is about the only training that the PL/PSG can plan and conduct that's not directed from higher.

I am not against crossfit but I don't think the Army should focus on one type of physical training. As a leader I allow my subordinates to plan and execute P.T. if their APFT scores are poor than I will ask them to re-evaluate their plan. It's too easy and it's the only time during the day that you have your entire unit together, you gotta make it count!

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 12 at 2016 12:56 AM

2016-01-12T00:56:25-05:00

PRT

Response by CW2 Michael Berthiaume made Jan 12 at 2016 2:20 PM

2016-01-12T14:20:38-05:00

I prefer Insanity, MAX30 or Body Beast

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 5:53 PM

2016-01-25T17:53:29-05:00

PRT is dumb, Crossfit is even dumber. 4th ID has Mountain Athlete Warrior (MAW), and its actually really good.