While at War, Female Soldiers Fight to Belong. What are your thoughts on this article?

2015-05-25T18:34:19-04:00

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/25/health/while-at-war-female-soldiers-fight-to-belong.html?ref=todayspaper

Given recent discussions here on RallyPoint, I thought this article was particularly interesting. Please give it a read and then share your thoughts ...

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Response by PO3 David Fries made May 25 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-05-25T18:53:33-04:00

If you do the job, cover your sector of fire, and have my 6; you belong. That goes for anyone.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 7:00 PM

2015-05-25T19:00:06-04:00

Exact replica of GI Jane. Females definitely have it tougher than males. It's a stigma that isn't going away any time soon. I still witness differential treatments even to this day!

We can try to raise awareness of 'equal opportunity', 'sexual harassment', etc... that will minimize such cases. But to eliminate it completely, eh, unless Hillary becomes president and radically feminize military [over my dead body]

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 7:26 PM

2015-05-25T19:26:40-04:00

Growing up in a small town and being the only girl in my class of 12, I learned really fast, you need a tough exterior, but a tougher core, if you want to have male friends. If you want to be "treated as one of them" you have to be able to take it and give it like them. But girls can't fake the funk to fit in with the guys. Sorry just because we have the same jobs, doesn't mean we all have all common interests and a common ground.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-05-25T19:36:03-04:00

I don't think females fight to belong. I have never come across a female fighting to belong to a unit, normally after awhile they sort of become assimilated with the unit, I saw it happen down range with some Female Engage Teams attached to our Scout units. The problem was the culture, here is a culture that does not respect women at all, and look at females with disdain, not just their females but any females. Fortunately the FET engaged afghan women and defused situations where men might have found themselves in. I believe they are a vital tools and have contributed greatly to the mission in Kandahar.

Response by SGT Rick Ash made May 25 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-05-25T20:08:29-04:00

I think it's something that was way overdue. But, having said that I have to wonder how I would interact with women in my company, especially during a conflict or in an actual war zone. Would I be overly protective? Could I treat them just like my fellow man?

I know I could count on them to cover my 6 and I know they wouldn't try to use their gender to jump ahead in a chow line. What if my CO or 1st SGT were of the opposite sex? Could I handle that? They would have received the same training as me so no concerns there. So where do these concerns I do HAVE come from? I suppose that since I am 6'5" and weigh 220 or so could they even d r a g me out of harms' way? Would it take them a long time to build a perimeter with 70 pound sand bags? Put those over her head? Not even a third of my body weight but possible, maybe likely one half of hers? I'd go out past the wire with a female soldier but if I get wounded am I in worse shape than with a male counterpart? I guess I summed up my fear. It all comes down to physical capabilities. What say you?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 25 at 2015 8:12 PM

2015-05-25T20:12:36-04:00

We all have our own leadership style, ways of fitting in and dealing with stress, male and female. If we keep up the insistence that one has it harder than the other, how will we ever fully integrate? Articles like this keep the "gender gap" open instead of trying to close it. We all get it men, are different than women and there are less women than men in the military. We each find our way to cope and do our missions as SMs. IMHO this women in the military yearning for their feminine side in a combat zone just doesn't fit the concept. We're all soldiers. In a combat zone we all wear the same uniform and equipment and have the same goal of staying alive and keeping those in our charge the same way.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 8:51 PM

2015-05-25T20:51:36-04:00

I find it easy to believe. I am sure that there are still some who are threatened by having female soldiers serving beside them.

What I do not know is why.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 11:49 PM

2015-05-25T23:49:40-04:00

I observed a very similar thing while on deployment. In a male only unit I have observed that there is a center core in each platoon, a close knit group of guys, who most of the rest of the platoon get along with, and then there are a few guys who are outliers and loners. The loners from each platoon will usually hang around with each other if given the chance, unless they are loners by personality. Otherwise, they are loners because they get in trouble and suck at being a soldier, or are PERCIEVED to at any rate.

In the integrated unit I deployed with, the outliers were the females. The unit also didn't have a good sense of camaraderie like I am used to. There were numerous little cliques in each platoon. This probably affected the females worse than the rest of us too.

It's customary in my experience to throw rocks at other soldiers nuts. That's just one example of the kind of behavior that makes being a soldier different from working at a factory. One of my buddies will walk into a group of guys smoking and joking and slap everybody in the group on the backside. There's no way that I'm aware of to include females in this without it being sexual harassment. I've been told that male soldiers shouldn't indulge in these "male bonging" exercises, but I truly believe that silly crap like this is what makes being a soldier different from working at Wal-Mart.

Whether true or not, females are likely to feel alienated from the males in the unit, who by demographics are going to be the majority.

This is further exacerbated by command policies that are designed to protect females. When I was in Afghanistan the males in our squad would hang out in our bhut, females were not allowed to enter the bhut. So naturally they were left out of most anything we did. Males and females weren't allowed to make a "battle buddy pair," which while it wasn't strictly enforced, still helped create a rift between male soldiers and female soldiers.

I believe that if the Army actually wants to effectively integrate females, not just make pretty plans of action and powerpoints to show that they're taking the issue seriously, but actually get serious about it, the Army must create an environment where there are just soldiers, not female soldiers, not male soldiers, but soldiers. The same way they DID with race. Get rid of separate billets, at least in a deployed environment. Hang up a few woobies to give the females their own section of a tent or bhut, but keep the squad together. I believe that this would not only help actually integrate females into the unit, but it would help keep sexual predators in check, because all interactions would be in view of the squad, and those of us who respect women don't take assault or harassment lightly.

The way it is set up now, the Army gives a lot of leeway as to what constitutes sexual harassment. For example if I tell off color jokes, and a female is offended, that is sexual harassment, but if she is not, then it isn't. This puts female service members in a spot. I don't have a clear cut answer for what should be done about this, but this isn't really right. The LT spotlighted in this article faced this issue. She should have addressed the jokes, but she was worried about acceptance so didn't, which brings me to my next point.

In my limited observations, male soldiers when they don't feel accepted as part of the team, squad or platoon, get a "screw you, I don't care" attitude. Females seem to take it much more personally, which appears to have been the issue with this LT.

I believe that for a female to be successful in an integrated unit, she should be confident and not put up with crap. Much better to be regarded as a competent b***h, than be walked over by those who should be your peers. Especially with regard to sexual harassment.

On that note however, men are unbelievably thick headed with regards to the opposite sex. Putting on a uniform doesn't help us out any. While on deployment, I had a long conversation with a female NCO about another NCO who she felt was sexually harassing her. I asked her why she didn't say anything to him, she replied that he knew what he was doing. Long story short, I took him and another NCO involved aside and talked to both, and both I really believe had no idea they were offending her. Both stopped immediately. Both were hurt that she hadn't talked to them directly, because they regarded her as a close enough friend that they thought the jokes and comments were just in good humor.

With apologies to female service members, I'm not looking forward to integrating combat arms, as I rather enjoy not having to think about any of this crap on a regular basis. However, I'm pretty certain it's in the future, so here's to making it happen.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 26 at 2015 12:14 AM

2015-05-26T00:14:49-04:00

Interesting GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad and certainly a good insight into how a female leaders feels in the male dominated world of the military. I believe there is difference between between respecting and accepting. Women have been in the Army for a long time now, and they continue to venture into more and more career fields. From the women I have worked with along the way (there have been women in my career field since I came in in 1980), I know that most feel they have to be as good physically, if not better, than the men; that is a hard standard to meet and keep. I have never walked in those shoes, but I know most of my female military friends are under tremendous stress and pressure, that most of us males never know.