What are your thoughts on the award policy in the Army? Should certain awards be reserved for higher ranks and positions?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 21:47:22 -0500

My PL recommended me for an MSM for winning our Division gunnery competition. It was immediately kicked back by our company commander who stated that commanders, XOs, S3 staff, and BCs are given this award.

AR 600-8-22 states, “ provides, in pertinent part, that the Meritorious Service Medal is awarded to members of the Armed Forces of the United States or of a friendly foreign nation who distinguish themselves by outstanding meritorious achievement or service in a noncombat area.”

The only reason my PL sent it up in the first place was because the previous year, two soldiers were given an MSM for having the fastest ruck time in E3B.

What are your thoughts as leaders?

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Mar 4 at 2025 10:43 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 22:43:33 -0500

No, certainly not. HOWEVER, winning division gunnery does not in my opinion rise to the level of an MSM. Top Gun in Division Gunnery is an ARCOM level award.

Response by COL Randall C. made Mar 4 at 2025 10:46 PM

COL Randall C. — Tue, 04 Mar 2025 22:46:56 -0500

Granting an award is always in the hands of the approval authority. In this case, a MSM will go to your CG, or a GO/SES that they've formally delegated the approval authority to (i.e., in writing).

The only person who can deny/downgrade the award is the approval authority or, if formally delegated, an immediate subordinate commander who has the authority to approve the next lower award. In the case of a MSM, it would be the O-6 commander in the chain of command (again, if the authority to deny it has been formally delegated).

Your Company Commander can recommend it be downgraded or disapproved, but they cannot downgrade or deny it as they don't have the authority to do so.

Of course, that is how the regulation (AR 600-8-22*, para 3-6f) requires it, but awards being 'kicked back' seem to happen frequently at the lower echelons (even the higher echelons although to a lesser degree) because individuals don't know the requirements ("what do you mean I can't disprove it?") or just ignore them ("I'm not going to clog up the CG's inbox for something that is going to be denied anyways.").

I would respectfully and tactfully direct your CO's attention to the applicable paragraph. If it remains 'kicked back' (i.e., it wasn't being done because of a lack of understanding), then you'll have to decide 'if the juice is worth the squeeze' regarding further actions.
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* AR 600-8-22 - https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN30935-AR_600-8-22-000-WEB-1.pdf

ARN30935-AR_600-8-22-000-WEB-1.pdf

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2025 12:43 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 00:43:42 -0500

Oh. Dear. God. How I hate it when Leaders use rank/position as a basis for certain levels of awards. It clearly states in the regs that this (outside very specific awards) practice is not allowed. It needs to be based on the level of impact.

I've no idea if DIV Gunnery is a level worthy of MSM, but that is NOT for your Commander to decide. That belongs to the CG or their designated rep. I don't feel the fastest ruck time is worthy. AAM at best.

Again, I HATE this for you.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Mar 5 at 2025 9:12 AM

CSM William Everroad — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 09:12:38 -0500

SSG Private RallyPoint Member Award policy is stated in the regulation as COL Randall C. has pointed out. But, if I interpret your question correctly, it is less about, "Does DIV gunnery rise to the ranks of an MSM recommendation?" and more of "How would you set criteria for awards?"

I will preface this to say that each approving authority (and their SEL) will interpret award criteria in many different ways based on their understanding and experience.

For the former, I am with SSG Roger Ayscue, I would not advise anyone to recommend an MSM for DIV gunnery. My rationale is that it was created as an "almost" Legion of Merit to recognize exemplary service. While it can be used for specific acts of achievement, my thought is that it centers around the character of service and not one-off events such as BWC, DIV Gunnery, Best Sapper, etc.

For the latter, when advising approval authorities, I always try to initiate that conversation early in their tenure. The purpose is to understand what they envision for each award that they have approval authority for and that would pass through them as an intermediate approver. It helps to recap the scope of each award and the history (kind of our job as NCOs is to steward the history and traditions of the military). The act of reviewing awards is usually enough to center the Officer on a common sense approach that is uniform across all awards. The task is then to communicate this philosophy across the formation.

This is not to say that some people will get into their feelings about what they perceive as favoritism or preferential treatment to certain pay grades or specific awards, or bring up that one dumpster fire who got a RET award they didn't deserve that one time. It is not perfect, and there is a lot of variability across commands. In my experience for example, what one GO may think of as criteria for a Silver Star may not meet the criteria of another, and a lot of confusion happens because the expectations for each award are not communicated clearly to subordinate commands.

Response by SGM Jeff Mccloud made Mar 5 at 2025 10:07 AM

SGM Jeff Mccloud — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 10:07:49 -0500

Your CO is close to right, but probably for all the wrong reasons, (unless he knows this and didn't want to give the complete explanation).

The reason why it looks like awards are based on rank (duty position really) is because the approving authority for an award considers the service and achievement of the awardee as it pertains to the positive effect or influence on their formation or it's mission.

In the case of an MSM, a GO is looking at the positive effect or influence on that brigade, and overall that division's formation or it's mission. A successful BN command with quantifiable improvement could very well have a positive effect on that division's mission, so you see BCs getting an MSM.

And bear in mind, every award below LOM is 4 distinct achievements to describe and justify that level of positive effect or influence, compared to an impact award which is just one very significant achievement. A good example of an impact award would be a Soldier stepping above their level of responsibility and providing the solution that no one else at BN or BDE level came up with to overcome a significant problem.

In your examples, winning the division gunnery competition, or the two soldiers with the fasted ruck time in a E3B, these would be impact situations, but definitively individual achievement, not necessarily having a greater positive effect or influence on a formation or it's mission.
Often, winning a division level competition, or even one of multiple events of an E3B, like the road march, is recognized with a coin from the CG.
Just as often, it is recognized with an impact AAM or ARCOM, but until today I have never seen an example of an impact MSM awarded in this situation, which many would argue is excessive.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2025 12:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 12:16:01 -0500

No awards should not be reserved for certain ranks, that is horse manure. But I can tell you when in Afghanistan, our commander gave all the officers bronze stars and the enlisted AA's. Yet not one officer except a LT ever went outside the wire, hell our commander rarely came to the office before 11:00 and was gone by 3:30. Never attended staff meetings for the higher command, always sent a NCO to represent our unit.

Response by LTC Trent Klug made Mar 5 at 2025 1:37 PM

LTC Trent Klug — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 13:37:36 -0500

I hate the rank dictates medal garbage.

That said, don't sweat the downgrade. Keep performing to the best of your abilities by setting the example (like in division gunnery) and the rewards and awards will come.

Response by MSG Thomas Currie made Mar 5 at 2025 2:10 PM

MSG Thomas Currie — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 14:10:40 -0500

Certain awards ARE "reserved for higher ranks and positions" -- just no one wants to ever admit that in writing.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 5 at 2025 10:30 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 05 Mar 2025 22:30:08 -0500

The ARs were written for a reason, standards for the awards. There is nothing in the ARs about certain ranks for certain awards. Just too bad there are leaders who think awards should be given by rank. Get with it .

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Mar 6 at 2025 2:05 AM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 02:05:12 -0500

To me: the higher the medal is ranked the higher the positive impact made to warrant it (this is strictly concerning peacetime personal awards). Did you do something that changes your whole MOS for the better? Heck yeah, that should rate an MSM. A Marine Corporal received an MSM for that very reason plus saving the Corps, by estimates, over a million dollars. A positive impact within one's unit to me shouldn't necessarily be more than an AAM unless accolades about you/your company/platoon level-unit were made specifically to general officers. That's just me though. It took me five units and stations before I finally got any semblance of a personal award; which also goes to show that part of receiving an award is also with some level of social politics.

Response by SGT Lorenzo Nieto made Mar 6 at 2025 7:10 AM

SGT Lorenzo Nieto — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 07:10:19 -0500

It should be open to everyone if it wasn’t for the little private the higher ranking people would not get anything see we make you what you are.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Mar 6 at 2025 6:21 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 18:21:23 -0500

I have had an ARCOM kicked back because my soldier was a specialist and received one every PCS for doing less. When I submitted my retirement award to my rater, I submitted an AAM. If my soldier could not get an ARCOM then an AAM is fine for me. Still stings I received nothing at retirement but I can say one of the last things I did was stand up for an enlisted soldier.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Mar 7 at 2025 8:36 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Fri, 07 Mar 2025 08:36:24 -0500

I am not postive about the meaning of “kicked back” but it probably doesn’t mean he disapproved the award. He most likely said the act doesn’t rise to the level outlined in paragraph 1-21 for an impact award. The rank examples most likely were intended as guidance for the type of positions that normally have responsibility levels that may reach the level of magnitude outlined in that paragraph. Your PL could push the issue to the approval authority although he probably should wait and include in your service award when you depart. If this had been an impact AAM it might have gotten through. I can’t speak to the other Soldier’s awards but in my opinion this falls way short of the criteria most Commands use to when awarding MSMs.

Response by SP5 Peter Keane made Mar 7 at 2025 5:31 PM

SP5 Peter Keane — Fri, 07 Mar 2025 17:31:03 -0500

Service in Viet Nam was a rank based award assignment for the Army. Meritorious awards for completing the year without incident got SGT and below an ARCOM, SSG and above got a BSM. I received 2 ARCOMs just for doing a decent job and spending 22 months there. (I use those ranks as catchalls, SP5 and so forth) Downgrading was common then also. I learned well after the fact that an ARCOM w V was actually submitted as a BSM w V. No biggie, as the V and 2 OLCs looked fine on my chest. The real awards were the 2 SS recipients that were next to me that day, and the MOH that would come for a PL KIA that day.

Response by LTC Stewart Mason made Mar 10 at 2025 12:35 AM

LTC Stewart Mason — Mon, 10 Mar 2025 00:35:50 -0400

Congratulations for becoming Divisional Top Gun. When I was Corporal I did the same thing and I received a personal written congratulations from the 9th ID CSM and a coin from the commander. Awards are usually weighted, and dependent upon the event being recognized.

I agree with the technical response from COL Cudworth. I think a discussion with your PL is warranted. I think this is an opportunity for you, your PL to learn the process and it sounds like a great subject for NCOPD and OPD. The re-address the event for an award.

Response by CSM Bryan Seale made Mar 12 at 2025 12:55 AM

CSM Bryan Seale — Wed, 12 Mar 2025 00:55:08 -0400

Sounds like someone did not read the regulation. Was the same commander involved last year? It seems to me that winning the gunnery competition takes more knowledge and skill than doing the fastest ruck time.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2025 7:15 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 19:15:58 -0400

It’s always a tricky topic. I don’t understand why in cases like this, soldier competitions, academic or physical- why isn’t the award already preapproved?

How many different units give different awards for winning a soldier of the month board? I wish the army would streamline some of this a little bit more.

It’s never going to be perfect. There are people out there, who were skilled with the word, and can make you sound like a hero for simply showing up. And obviously, there is the commands that unless you are deserving, a congressional medal of honor, then you were “just doing your job.”

I think the truth lies somewhere in between. But making standards for gunnery competitions, boards etc….. I would help alleviate some of that.

Response by 1SG Uwe Mueller made Mar 24 at 2025 4:21 PM

1SG Uwe Mueller — Mon, 24 Mar 2025 16:21:49 -0400

Your Company Commander had a lot to learn regarding achievement, performance, and recognition for superior performance. I think the Ban SGM should have been made aware and had a discussion with the Captain on behalf of the Bn. Cdr..

Response by SPC Julio R. made Mar 25 at 2025 6:31 PM

SPC Julio R. — Tue, 25 Mar 2025 18:31:06 -0400

There's always blue Falcon. Cos and/or officers point blank period it's jealousy. If it soldier get outstanding, he deserves an award or she deserves an award or they deserve an award. Rank be d***** The only people that give a s*** about that is desk. Jockeys, that got nothing better to do. That's a wine that day. Didn't get the award one.All in all?All they gotta do is pencil.Whip themselves an award. point blank period if you're a private e fuzzy, and you did something that needs to be recognized, or that should be recognized, then recognize it. It's just as bad as when we stand in formation after coming back from deployment and all the NC o's get called up and they all get these Stars for doing what Exactly jack s***.
Why didn't complaining the whole town were deployed, telling us what to do instead of showing us what to do leave from the front that didn't happen. But they all stood up there. The backbone of the Army c*** No, ncos are not the backbone of the army.It's the lower enlisted e4 below.
But I digress, blue falcons are the ones screwing soldiers over awards, no awards, all that.
So you're telling that if a snot nosed new b****, does something else standing? They can't get an award, so you're going to go give it to his sergeant instead. we got more things to worry about right now. Like the breach of security that the secretary of defense, the sexual assaulter, the blue falcon, the disgrace to the uniform, the unqualified one and t g with the opsec breach.

secdef is a nazi

Response by CSM Bryan Seale made May 28 at 2025 6:29 PM

CSM Bryan Seale — Wed, 28 May 2025 18:29:12 -0400

It is my opinion that your company commander needs to read the regulation. In all likelihood he was 'advised' by someone higher of the 'policy ' his quoted.