Who do you think is responsible for our failure in Iraq?

2014-08-10T20:23:34-04:00

Strategically, who do you think the blame falls with? Is it Paul Bremer, GWB, or do you blame some of the senior leaders for screwing OIF up?

Not trying start a debate here, but it's obvious that this war was mishandled and strategically screwed up ... and if you need proof, just look at what ISIS is doing.

Thoughts?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 8:29 PM

2014-08-10T20:29:00-04:00

The Iraqi government.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Aug 10 at 2014 8:40 PM

2014-08-10T20:40:51-04:00

Let me be annoying for a second and just ask for clarification. Do you mean OEF as in Afghanistan or do you mean Iraq which is OIF or OND?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 9:12 PM

2014-08-10T21:12:56-04:00

You battle religious fanaticism through literacy and education, and it takes decades to move a country like Iraq into the 21st century. When we focus on military victory we lose sight of the harder long term victory in which everyone truly wins.

*added content:

My personal take is that we didn't stay long enough to ensure security for a whole generation of Iraqi children to become literate and grow up. We are now witnessing the result.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 9:38 PM

2014-08-10T21:38:13-04:00

Blaming Bremer and his cronies will undoubtedly be a popular choice for disbanding the military they way they did. However, I blame the Iraqi government for the current situation.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 11:09 PM

2014-08-10T23:09:58-04:00

A few things here. If we're doing a FLIPL on this thing, the proximate cause is the decision to invade in the first place. However, since it's not, I'll jump on the decision to disband the systems under the seat of power. Purging Batthists was probably a bad way to go. But...and this is a big but...the Iraqi Government and culture share a huge portion of the blame. Let's say America get's it's ass handed to it by...I don't know, let's say Kazakstan. It's just a "for instance," bear with me. We have 10 years to build a capable military. The American mindset, even after defeat, would have been able to build a force (with the guidance and a SHITE-TON of cash from Kazakstan) capable of withstanding an attempted take-over by the Grays Harbor County Patriot Militia (I chose a home state militia so no one would get their knickers in a twist). Corruption on the grand scale that exists in the governments in the middle east do not exist in our (general, publicly held) collective mind as a society. Given the vast amount of money and support and guidance and weapons provided to Iraq, they should have been able to stop ISL in Mosul.

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Aug 10 at 2014 11:48 PM

2014-08-10T23:48:52-04:00

Hindsight is 20/20, looking back, we should have not went to war in Iraq. We did, so there is nothing that can be done to change that. So, I blame GWB for starting an unnecessary war to begin with.

With that being said, I blame the current president for the failure of Iraq. The decision to pull out all troops by a certain time, based solely on political points, was a huge mistake by the president. It is easy to convince the public it was a right decision when you keep firing senior military leaders until they all agree with your political point of view.

I knew when the decision was made to pull the troops out of Iraq was made that it was a mistake. Terrorists are patient, and knowing Iraq had such a fragile government made it easy for them to exploit the weakness of the government, which was the three differing factions trying to run it as one.

Once the terrorists were able to get the differing factions in the government fighting each other, it made it easier for security to break down.

I put all the blame on the failure of Iraq with President Obama and then Secretary of State Clinton.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 11:48 PM

2014-08-10T23:48:34-04:00

I don't know what more we could have done other than jamming Old Glory in the ground and calling it a new State of the Union. We spent years and billions and gallons of blood making the best possible scenario for a government to be on it's feet and running in full offense mode towards the end zone, the ball was dropped, in my opinion, after we left the field.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Aug 11 at 2014 12:54 AM

2014-08-11T00:54:53-04:00

It was a political promise made by the President to pull the troops out, but I am in no way blaming the President. The Iraqis have a cultural of laziness and when their military is faced with a challenge, they don't run to it to destroy it, they drop their weapons and run. They are cowards and our military trained them to be Soldiers, and I am not sure if they even deserve to be called Soldiers. We can train them, but we can't teach courage and bravery. The Iraqis had the training and equipment to be an effective military but they seem to lack the will and the courage to live.

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Aug 11 at 2014 2:47 AM

2014-08-11T02:47:21-04:00

First off it is not our 'Failure'. It's the failure of the Iraqi government, people, and their institutions. We set them up, we spent more money building their infra-structure, rebuilding/training their police and military, and improving their country... more than our own.

GWB hasn't been in office for a while now so, I wish everyone would stop blaming him for this mess. He didn't attack us on 911. He didn't violate UN resolutions. I will agree that not everything was done right (I have stated that in other posts)... but the same terrorist group attacked us under Bill Clinton but no one blames him for his lack of response. Obama, right or wrong did what he thought was right (I am not an Obama supporter). But it was time to leave and let Iraq take care of itself.

How long to do you hold someone's hand and it is either sink or swim especially if your going to sink with them? America can't afford to waste money in all these piss-ant countries that hate us anyway... We have some real friends that we ignore. It is time to gather our real frineds and fix our own problems... then and only then should we waste time and money and like Iraq.

I can hear people now "evil prevails when good men do nothing"... Well Iraq and the rest of the world are full of good men...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 6:06 AM

2014-08-11T06:06:34-04:00

No foreign strategy can undo mindset of brainwashed, ideology infused, too weak and scared to think for themselves, determined to propagate their cause by absolutely any and all means necessary... MOBS

These are the true 21st century living ZOMBIES that do not know, nor understand anything else in this world. And you know the only way to stop those zombies, right? Yes, only 1 way unfortunately.

To paraphrase Patton: no bastard ever won the war by dying for his country (or cause). He won it by having the other bastard dying for his country (or cause). We're the bastards. Our cause is the country. They're the other bastards. Their cause is Islamic caliphate. That's all I got to say here

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 7:21 AM

2014-08-11T07:21:27-04:00

I'm not so sure that the whole thing was a failure I believe we were doing some pretty good things and having some advancement in the country but I also think that our all mighty leader wanted to pull all our troops out too quick and that's where the debacle is coming from.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 10:44 AM

2014-08-11T10:44:21-04:00

We pulled out too early just like we always do. We start something and the American people get tired of it so they demand that we "send all the troops home"! I guess Vietnam didn't teach us anything huh?

Response by SFC Phillip Allen made Aug 11 at 2014 12:44 PM

2014-08-11T12:44:50-04:00

It was a mistake to go to Iraq in the first place, after multiple deployments to that cesspool of a country, I can tell you it was never going to be what we thought it should be, they didn't, and still don't, want what we were offering.

I truly hate to think that it was all a waste of lives and money, but the point is it was. I think Pres Obama made the right decision to leave, it's what America wanted, and he delivered, and anybody who was there and actually paying attention knew it was a lost cause, and would fall apart once we left, whenever that might have been.

The biggest mistake was made after WWII when the Allies forced people who didn't want to be a country to become a country namely, Iraq, and we forced Israel on the Middle East without regard for the impact that would have, we just wanted to insure that the Jewish people felt better after Holocaust. Point being it wasn't our business then, it wasn't our business 10 years ago, and it's not our business now. I say let them sort it out themselves, and protect the homeland, and if they come at us again, then we do exactly what we intended to do after 9-11, we figure out who did it, track them down, and wipe them out, as an example, and then we go back home, and stop wasting American money and lives on people who don't even like us, not even a little bit.

Response by Cpl Keldon McFarland made Aug 11 at 2014 1:05 PM

2014-08-11T13:05:38-04:00

Obama. Obam, Obama, Obama is responsible for the retreat and early pull-out of Iraq. Obama gleefully withdrew and gave that jerk-face, smug smirk of his, gloating that Iraq was "stable" and well prepared to take care of itself. Obama is a cancer leading us to ruin in every capacity.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Aug 11 at 2014 1:07 PM

2014-08-11T13:07:18-04:00

The problem is in thinking that we could change centuries of ingrained behavior.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Aug 11 at 2014 1:30 PM

2014-08-11T13:30:03-04:00

Did you forget Obama's refusal to establish a status of forces agreement? Yes, firing the Iraqi military was a HUGE bonehead mistake, but leaving was even more so. We still have troops in European countries and Japan 70 years after the end of WWII. Leaving Iraq gave the Global War on Terror high ground back to the enemy. It will take more now to get it back, but it's not worth it if we're not going to stay. We need a Middle East Marshall Plan. We need to retain bases and authority to operate in order to project power and influence.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2014 1:52 PM

2014-08-11T13:52:13-04:00

I don't think it's a question of "Who" (FYI proper English - "Whom" not "Who". Sorry kind of a nerd in that aspect.), but really a laundry list of failures that have brought Iraq to this breaking point.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
When the Afghans were fighting the Russians they received covert help from the USG. After they had fought and won against the Russians they requested aid from the USG to rebuild their country. The USG wiped their hands and said thanks for beating the Russians but you are not our responsibility. The Afghans received "aid" from an unlikely ally, bin Laden, and started down a very perilous path that culminated in OEF.

The problem is the USG is willing to help these countries fight and win but not rebuild. In the rebuilding is where we earn our bread and butter. Without proper infrastructure and a bridge to a better life people will turn to just about anything to make a living. Drugs (growing and distribution), arms dealing, protection, slavery, etc. People need to fill their basic needs and will go to great lengths to fill them.

In my opinion the USG should have stayed the course, no matter how unpopular, and rebuilt the Government of Iraq. Without further international aid the situation will only get worse. I understand the reason for ending an "unpopular" war but the reality is there really never is an end. We are still oin Japan, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Aug 11 at 2014 2:41 PM

2014-08-11T14:41:57-04:00

I do not believe that WE failed in Iraq. Once Maliki decided not to renew the Status of Forces Agreement, our President was right in pulling us out.

That aside, we never lost a battle, we (the Military) left the country in good shape, and the Iraqi government blew it. I have used this analogy before but it was Vietnam Deja Vu. Not our fault.

If some would have stayed, I am positive that the Iraqis would be in better shape now than when we left. But without that Status of Forces Agreement, a Soldier could be tried in the Iraqi Courts for ANYTHING that they didn't like.

And, for an additional 2 cents, we left the wrong country.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Aug 11 at 2014 2:53 PM

2014-08-11T14:53:49-04:00

Lets remove the word "our" from your question. US and allied forces captured a ruthless dictator, secured strategic land, quelled a raging dispute between religious sects, and left a relatively secure country after our withdrawal. In short the forces involved accomplished the complex missions assigned to them with compassion and firm resolve.
At home any failure lies in the politicians taking advantage of a hot subject to create divide within our population, draining support from the mission to create a situation that may shift enough votes for a change in the political landscape.
In Iraq it is squarely the fault of an elected government failing to push forward after 10 years of political discourse and debate being settled by arms. Nominating weak leaders in positions that could matter to ensure no matter who was elected no viewpoint can win out.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Aug 11 at 2014 3:40 PM

2014-08-11T15:40:31-04:00

Sir I can only say that if what took place during the war needs a blame, let's look at where it all began.
If you have 2 hours of your time, please look at this, this is my home town and I lived this personally as it took place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCRL4felADM

9/11/01 ABC New York Local A.M. Broadcast

the news

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 11 at 2014 10:34 PM

2014-08-11T22:34:39-04:00

Well it appears not all Iraqis lack the stones to face ISIS. Footage from a recent Iraqi Air Force mission that morphed from a humanitarian supply drop to impromptu rescue.

Look at those door-gunners get some! I believe one is even wearing a 4ID patch on his helmet...

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 1:05 AM

2014-08-12T01:05:52-04:00

I think its the Iraq Government's fault. I mean the saying goes "You can only lead the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink"

Response by MSG Bill DeSouza made Aug 12 at 2014 9:24 AM

2014-08-12T09:24:52-04:00

1. The fact that the US are in Iraq in the first place
2. The fact that there was no discernable long term plan for a feasible exit strategy from the begining
3. The Iraq governments’ infighting, graft, and general disorganization
4. The clan structure and the inability for the US (under Bush) to see and understand the internal dynamics of the Iraq people
5. Fighting a war by proxy with under paid, ill-trained, ill-disciplined Iraqi troops
6. Making the same mistakes over and over again due to a lack of understanding by US troops on the ground on the Iraqi clan structure and thinking that the Iraqi people would all welcome the US (FYI, This is the fault of the senior officers and political string pullers and not the fault of the general ground troops)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 11:15 AM

2014-08-12T11:15:30-04:00

Many may say the Iraqi Government, however General Colin Powell actually admitted in his book "It Worked For Me" that we entered Iraq based on false information and with no long term plan. Don't get me wrong, the Iraqi goverenment needs to take accountability for their lack of action however, a.) democracy was not created in one night or even in 10 years, and b.) poor planning and lack of correct information set us up for failure from the beginning.

Response by Cpl Ian Schuelke made Aug 12 at 2014 1:05 PM

2014-08-12T13:05:09-04:00

I highly doubt that with as many factors as were influencing the initial days following the fall of Saddams government that anything we could have done would have mitigated any of the follow on incidences which led to OIF. Especially considering that the last time that the US was involved in a Occupation following the destruction of the established government was in Japan and Germany following WW2. In the case of Germany it was a part of a five power deal and in the case of Japan culturally at the time they accepted rulership as part of their cultural identity. Unless I am badly mistaken even during the Cold War West Germany was largely self ruling. Could OIF gone better Yes but with a complete and total power vaccum caused by the fall of a totalitarian government I don't think realistically that anything could've happened differently.

Even with all the mismanagement and things like Abu Ghraib in my opinion those were more the signs of inexperience then outright malfeasance or a lack of caring. More than once I have compared Iraq as a whole to 1920s Chicago, and in fact the "Al-Anbar Awakening" really didn't gain any traction until the assassination of Sheik Sattar. However once that happened AQI lost almost complete control of Al Anbar and since Al Anbar was the linchpin of the resistance...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 2:23 PM

2014-08-12T14:23:11-04:00

We should have never went to Iraq in the first place. Going to Iraq had nothing to do with our freedom or our constitution. But, putting that aside the Iraqi government is to blame they don't want freedom because they are to lazy to defend it themselves.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 4:12 PM

2014-08-12T16:12:15-04:00

All of the above. Iraqi government; current and past presidents and cowardly general and flag officers who would not stand up for what was the right thing to do, only the politically correct thing to do.

Response by SPC Richard White made Aug 12 at 2014 4:14 PM

2014-08-12T16:14:52-04:00

I think you are looking at it wrong. We didn't fail.We should have never stuck our nose in a war that has been on going for generations.War has no winners.I would say the Iraqi people and Govt. is who the blame falls with.

Response by PFC Stephen Eric Serati made Aug 12 at 2014 7:15 PM

2014-08-12T19:15:17-04:00

We have not failed, we pulled back for them to step forward.Now as allies we support them.Like the French did with us a long time ago.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2014 9:20 PM

2014-08-12T21:20:18-04:00

Look at the mission: Secure the people/ensure the safety of the American population? those were easy, the HARD part was the democratic self governing Iraq. You can't hand someone freedom, they will throw it away. They will not appreciate it if they did not fight for it, and will not fight to keep it. We installed a government they did not choose for themselves. They participated in a democratic election because WE were occupying and telling them to.

They didn't want America to pull out for two reasons. 1: the second we left someone else would be in power who would not be free from corruption, and 2: every day America was there we were pouring money into their economy.

Our failure in Iraq was taking on a mission that could not be accomplished.
Finding WHO to blame is pointless and will accomplish nothing, LEARNING from that mistake WILL be productive. Bottom line, they will not be independent until they are inspired as a people to take it for themselves. We cannot give it to them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 12:27 PM

2014-08-13T12:27:18-04:00

The Iraqi government is responsible for the state of affairs. They were left with a good product: A country basically built by the US with US dollars, and an entire infrastructure that needed only to be maintained to remain fully functional.

They failed to manage their own country.

An over-simplified analogy: I cleaned my 6 year old son's disaster of a bedroom this weekend. This morning, it was back to disaster status. I told him he would have to clean up the mess this time, and he complained "but its too messy, i cant clean it all by myself". My response: " I already cleaned it up once, all you have to do is take care of it".

Iraq in a nutshell.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Aug 13 at 2014 2:43 PM

2014-08-13T14:43:07-04:00

Cpt Johathan,

In my honest opinion, failure in Iraq was not our military but looking at the soft power in the diplomatic arena.

America's diplomatic relationships has been built on a military power, agriculture, education and technology, while smaller countries who have survived thousands of years relying on lesser amounts and other resources for a more meaningful and sustainable diplomatic impact.

America has one of the greatest military powers on the planet modern man has ever seen, but has local, regional, and global challenges in diplomacy. US Embassies and Consulates are like palaces, huge and small town Western and dominate American culture, representing a strong presence from the West.

If our presence in the region is so huge, why isn't America's diplomatic story in Iraq not mainstream media? It is possible that there is none. It is also possible that American diplomacy efforts are hidden from the American people and the world, for what ever reason. Whose to blame?

If there is blame, we must blame our inadequacies in our diplomatic relationships. Blame, as much as there is, the solution set would be to envision realistic resolve with great promise in our young country's diplomacy in action.

Thank you for your service.

Response by Cpl Matthew Wall made Aug 13 at 2014 3:10 PM

2014-08-13T15:10:54-04:00

The problem started before we ever got there. They were fighting with each other long before we got there and they will continue to fight with each other long after we are gone. ISIL is a problem, but we bred that problem by letting Syria do what every they wanted to do and worrying about Iraq and Afghanistan. It is the whole ME that is a problem, but nobody wanted to address that for fear of nuclear war.

Now besides all that you now have a POTUS is a do nothing on foreign policy. His belief is that you should stand back and let things play out and not get involved too much. It was a great theory, but when it comes to Putin or the ME you have to do something or they will try to walk all over you. There is a difference in not providing foreign aid and not doing anything at all. I prefer to not give out foreign aid, but still knock someone in the dirt if need be.

The other problem arises with the way we fight a war. We were doing great when we could go in and kill them all. Now you have to worry about politics and blah blah blah. Congress really did a number on crap. As a result I could argue that more people got killed because of the ROEs.

Response by CAPT Gary Foster made Aug 13 at 2014 3:17 PM

2014-08-13T15:17:00-04:00

A lot of good Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines died trying to stabilize Iraq, so no one should blame our military. The civilian leadership on the other hand is very much responsible. Starting with the Iraqi government that the US helped establish, they wanted us out of their country. They apparently had very little idea that this sort of thing could happen, and certainly without our presence it did. It's almost amusing to watch the current spin from the administration trying to dance away from taking responsibility. Once again, it is "Bush's fault." Some of it is, but look who has been "spiking the football" to use an overused sports analogy. Over the last six years (coincidental with the administration) we have seen the results of an apologetic foreign policy that has resulted in a continuing Arab Spring, persecution of Christians, and the rise of radical Islam. The self-gratification of proclaiming "I got us out of Iraq; I got Osama Bin Laden; Al Qaeda is decimated; ISIS is the JV, etc......" the list goes on, was constantly drilled by the administration and a media that no longer is there to check and balance what the administration says and does. Mrs. Clinton pointing the finger at the President is as laughable as his inaction. She was at the helm of foreign policy while it burned itself beyond recognition. The result has been disastrous: Four dead Americans in Benghazi; a complete reversal of compassion for a Palestinian state that continues to terrorize Israel, without any help from the US, and numerous other events that do nothing but raise eyebrows. All we are apparently doing is setting up for the next great battle that we will inevitably be sucked into without any help from the useless UN. We are the world's police force whether we choose to admit it or not. We are the only country that unselfishly commits our resources to other countries for not only defeating aggression, but Americans as a people give more in monetary and human assistance for disaster relief. I am proud to be an American, but the longer we sit back on vacation while the world goes to hell in a hand-basket tells me that we are being set up for a mega-battle for world freedom. Isolationists will tell us not to get involved. That’s arrogant and selfish, considering how we got involved because of 9-11.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 13 at 2014 4:59 PM

2014-08-13T16:59:25-04:00

IMO the problem in Iraq stems from the American people.

In Desert Storm we smashed their infrastructure and then walked away under political pressure.

We then spent 12 years following a policy of bombing the country from afar without committing any "boots on the ground" this gave Hussein ample opportunity to demonize America, and blame us for the economic depression the country was forced to live in (Very similar to the time between WWI and WWII that allowed Hitler to raise to power).

We went to war under the policy of "not to conquer, but to liberate" out of political correctness.

We allowed people who had been brainwashed by a maniacal dictator for almost a quarter of a century to elect a government.

We then "threw the keys" to a weak, fledgling government that had been elected by a country of abused children. Again, politics.

Had we been honest with ourselves, and admitted to ourselves collectively that our only interest in the middle east is it's strategic oil reserves. With that in mind we could have entered the Desert Storm with the realization that we would need to occupy and re-indoctrinate a defeated enemy long term the same way we did with Japan and Germany post WWII.

Instead we followed a policy reminiscent of Vietnamization, and we are seeing (predictably) similar results. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of walking away from Iraq (because of terrorism and the country's strategic importance) the way we did in Vietnam.

Until we educate ourselves, and elect officials that use common sense as seen through the lens of history. I'm afraid we will continue to fight wars with one hand tied behind our back, and walk away from hills bought with too much blood. It's just an unfortunate weak point of a Democracy... unless "We the People" are willing to think for ourselves, we will continue to elect leaders who are unwilling to make unpopular but right decisions.

Response by Cpl Christopher Allen-Shinn made Aug 13 at 2014 6:10 PM

2014-08-13T18:10:02-04:00

The failure is on the corrupt Iraqi politicians, not on the American military or Presidents Clinton, Bush, or Obama. I disagreed with the strategic decision to invade in 2003 by GWB, but regardless of that our military performed very well tactically and stabilized that state prior to our withdrawal.

Nobody (Obama, Iraqis, or ordinary Americans) wanted us to stay by the time that the Bush administration had ended and Obama had taken office. Theoretically, we could have engaged in nation-building and training/CT operations, but I doubt that our economy could've sustained that long term even if the political will was there.

Response by CSM William Payne made Aug 13 at 2014 6:55 PM

2014-08-13T18:55:00-04:00

Jay Garner had a plan, which he was just starting to implement. When Paul Bremer came in and Garner was out Bremer implemented the debathazation of the Iraqi Government and military and that was the beginning of the chaos. The biggest of many mistakes we made in Iraq, if you even agree we should have been there to begin with, especially in light of what we were doing in Afghanistan at the time. We planned for the invasion, but not for the aftermath. Bremer didn't come up with that brilliant decision by himself, those above him would have never given him that authority. So who's call was it? Was worth it to dispose Saddam? If he was still in power Al-Qaeda would be minimal and ISIS would not be in Iraq. Invading Iraq also prolonged the war in Afghanistan. The Bush administration pick to run the Iraqi Government , Ahmed Chalabi turned out to be a joke and provided a lot of the misinformation we used to invade Iraq to begin with, but al-Maliki has not turned out much better and is to blame for the current political climate in Iraq. His persecution of the Kurds and Sunnis has led to the current situation. There are no Thomas Jeffersons in Iraq. It took the United States 89 years to have another war to figure out democracy and we are as dysfunctional today as we have ever been. There is a reason that George Washington opposed the development of political parties . . . and we expect countries in the middle east to figure it out in a little over 10 years?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2014 10:03 PM

2014-08-13T22:03:28-04:00

Sir, with all due respect for Islamic religion, whoever added anything pertinent to annihilation of infidels is to blame. That includes lying, manipulating, and going to the most inhumane methods to commit unspeakable atrocities in the name of Allah

That kind of narrows it down to one man who walked this planet in 600AD. I'll stop right there and let the reader think about it. This is a very politically controversial, but true answer in regards to those who take this religion fundamentally.

And that mentality, Sir, is unfortunately irreversible, prompting only one action to stop it, which I'm sure you know what it is

Response by SPC Stephen Bobchin made Aug 14 at 2014 12:02 AM

2014-08-14T00:02:54-04:00

The Iraqi government, and to an extent, the Iraqi people for not standing up and fighting for themselves.

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made Aug 14 at 2014 5:16 AM

2014-08-14T05:16:49-04:00

I'm not going to get too technical here or even political but blaming the Iraqi government would be the equivalent of a Communist country invading America, setting up a Communist government, and then it all falls apart because we don't want it.

Response by MSG John Ada made Aug 14 at 2014 4:21 PM

2014-08-14T16:21:48-04:00

Hindsight is always 20/20, asking who is to blame is a difficult question.

I am sure that there is enough blame to go around in varying degrees.

We did train and mentor the Iraqi security forces.

I did two tours on Military Transition Teams (MITTs) in Iraq.

- 2004-2005 Border Patrol (Syrian border)

- 2008-2009 National Police (Mosul)

I am only mentioning that to put my following comment in context.

I did not see a will to fight in the majority of the individuals that constituted the Iraqi security forces.

You can train and mentor all you want, but if a national pride to fight for your nation is not there you cannot win.

It is disappointing to see what is happening in Iraq, I personally have a difficult time watching the news.

I had several Yezidi interpreters for both my tours, the most distressing scene to me is seeing the plight they are currently enduring.

Response by SSG David Lewis made Aug 14 at 2014 10:37 PM

2014-08-14T22:37:15-04:00

Iraq was lost before we initiated operations. D. Rumsfeld looked his officers in the eye and said, "I'll fire the next man who says that we need a strategy for post-invasion Iraq." That is a direct quote. No vision allowed. As the insurgency grew, he said, "We are fighting 1500 to 2000 dead-enders." Clueless.

We destroyed all Iraqi civil and governmental institutions...stupid.

We dropped in and tried to build a top-down central government: a bureaucracy and an Army...but a bureaucracy and an army don't make a people a nation. That has to come first, a nation, then a government.

Our political civilians wrote the most outrageously restrictive rules of engagement...they wanted a war, but they didn't want anybody to get hurt.

Our political civilians stuck with the lines drawn by the Brits in the early 1900s, when clearly the Iraqi PEOPLE don't fit inside those lines...better to lose than admit that Winston Churchill might have been wrong...

Our political and diplomatic civilians acted as if Iran didn't exist and therefore could take no action in Iraq...they were wrong. Iran has been an actor there since the beginning...what did they think was going to happen? The answer is, they didn't think.

Iraqis suck at conventional soldiering and conventional governing...so they are collapsing before the last puff of prop blast from the last US C130 has cleared the air...this was predictable by anyone who had been there...

Look at what is happening there now. Let me ask you, "What kind of a---h--le would it take to keep all those factions and personalities in line?"...an a--hole like Saddam Hussein, is the answer. How's old Saddam lookin now that ISIS is BURYING FAMILIES ALIVE??? Not too bad, huh? Wishing for the good old days when the only danger was getting tortured by Uday and Kusay...two dudes doin' the torture instead of thousands.

Just my .02 cents

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 15 at 2014 1:47 AM

2014-08-15T01:47:29-04:00

While I feel that the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916 played a pivotal role with the unrest in the region the root cause of the overall failure in the area is due to a conflicted foreign policy that struggles to strike a balance between our nations energy concerns and human rights issues. However the recent events with the rise of ISIS is a direct failure in establishing a A status of forces agreement (SOFA) in Iraq. This systemic failure can be viewed as either incompetence or a crafty dogs of war run by big business. Until we develop a strategy to defeat an ideology and not a standing force we will always be chasing our tails in the sand.

Response by SSG Jacob Wiley made Oct 2 at 2014 7:41 AM

2014-10-02T07:41:31-04:00

Iraqis are to blame, with a little help from rushing us out to win political points and be able to boast "I ended the war in iraq". That was advised against...it, like most things, fell on deaf ears.

In general - blame which ever side - WE still haven't learned a lesson about those people. The folks over there, Iraq and Afghanistan, do not give a damn. They are lazy, they are worthless, they are filth. They do not fight for anything, they sit back and say "help me mista", holding their hands out for food, and everything else that can be provided FOR them.

It was foolish to think that animals could be trained to give a damn, become organized and fend for themselves. If that was an inaccurate statement - why are have they fallen apart again?

Like 1LT John Martin said, " ...a lazy Iraqi Army and Intelligence structure that didn't do systematic checks...Leadership at all levels should have been...recruited informants and sore losers from insurgent groups..."

Once the US left and quit watching, quit DOING for them - they also quit. This time when we go in there, the military should do what it's for: kill them. Kill every goat loving one of them that is identified as hostile, then turn around and leave. No more hand holding, no more years rebuilding and playing teacher. Find, fix, and destroy - come home.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Oct 2 at 2014 8:48 AM

2014-10-02T08:48:06-04:00

Bremer or Bush, really? I think any sane person realizes that when those two left their office, things were stable but when they left, the people left in place were either ignorant or so apathetic that they allowed...supported...this mess.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 2 at 2014 9:54 AM

2014-10-02T09:54:37-04:00

Days of Fire by Peter Baker is an outstanding book that eludes to how Iraq was mishandled at crucial points. In a nutshell alot of the problems stem from Donald Rumsfeld, GEN Casy, and GEN Abizaid prior to the surge according to the book. Essentially they wanted to continue with transferring authority over to Iraqi's and put a heavier burden on SOF's, as well as more emphasis on Advisor's. GEN (R) Keane conducted studies with "the Iraq Study Group" and pushed for the surge wich really quelled the sectarian violence and established a pretty stable Iraq throughout my time there in 07-09 during the surge.
However my two cent's on the matter happen to be that we never should have left that country and established enduring bases just like in Korea and Germany. It was obvious in 2009 that they're security forces were literally just there to collect a paycheck, and if they weren't payed on time went and did whatever they could to make money, most of the time being planting IED's etc. They absolutely had no vested interest in securing their country, no sense of pride in country If you were to name any of our Army Values only a handful of the 500+ Soldiers I assisted in training exhibited a single one. To make that Country actually "work" in my opinion, the Government must be fixed, and allow them to establish a real military that is self sustaining with a model similar to ours in terms of entry level military training.

Response by PO1 Jose Roman made Oct 2 at 2014 11:11 AM

2014-10-02T11:11:38-04:00

These were major blunders in no particular order of importance but they all compound and feed into one another.

#1 Administration calling the Iraqi "Mission Accomplished" before its time
#2 The CPA disbanding the Iraqi Army and Debaathication of the govt. (Sending home everyone that knew how to run the place and bringing in a bunch of carpetbaggers)
#3 Fighting a war on the cheap, not being 100% committed to an end game/exit strategy
#4 NOT having an exit strategy or thorough end game in place
#5 Believing Iraq, left in shambles would latch on to a democratic govt at gun point
#6 Privatizing the economy then letting foreign investors in with immunity of the law and no taxes to pay back to the govt
#7 Gross mismanagement of billion of US tax dollars for reconstruction
#8 ignoring ethnic divisions in the country

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made Oct 3 at 2014 12:40 PM

2014-10-03T12:40:19-04:00

The lack of an Iraqi National will.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Oct 3 at 2014 1:00 PM

2014-10-03T13:00:14-04:00

What I say may be hurtful to some vets or SMs, so I apologize in advance, but the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are absolute failures that never should have started. There was no good reason to go into Iraq, but our government struck while the iron was hot, while we all still demanded blood. Now, we DID do our best to give them every chance in the world to succeed, but clearly they will not. Their government is a failure and it should be allowed to fail. We should never again send one American man or woman to Iraq.

Onto Afghanistan, my war. What, just what in the hell are we doing there? Afghanistan is so rural and so backwards that it cannot be easily given a decent democratic government like we did for Iraq. The people in one village did not give a hoot in hell about the people just a few miles down the river, and they certainly did not care about some phantom government on the other side of the country in Kabul. Almost everywhere I went, if you took away the guns, vehicles, and very limited electricity, it would look exactly like it did 800 years ago. It upset me to admit it, but nothing we have accomplished there is going to last (my unit handed off Now-Zad to the ANA last summer, and it's already fallen). We need to pull out now and, like Iraq, never again set foot in the graveyard of empires.

That's my piece. The Middle East is not our fight. No troops or bases or foreign aid should go to any of those countries, or any country in the world, for that matter. The only connections we should have are trade.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2014 1:42 PM

2014-10-03T13:42:15-04:00

Donald Rumsfeld! When he was asked by the media how he planned to catch Saddam Hussein he answered "To catch a big fish, you must cast a big net". Then we began searching every home in the country, which turned most of the population against us - even people that hated Saddam! Brigade commanders were conducting raids, then eventually "cordon searches" (raids under a more palatable name). Interestingly enough when we caught Saddam Hussein it was because someone told us where he was hiding. The searches didn't produce anything. If someone asked me to come up with a sure fire way to turn Iraqi hearts and minds against us, I would have come up with Rumsfeld's plan.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2014 2:10 PM

2014-10-03T14:10:46-04:00

Honestly there is enough blame to go around from start to finish. In my opinion we had no business being there in 2003, but that is besides the point. We screwed up in Iraq in 2003 because we caused a power vacuum when we removed Saddam and we had no plan to prevent that until it was too late. Where we really messed up is the way in which we up and left the Iraqi people in 2011 was the turning point in which the door was opened for SIS/ISIL and even Al Queda if they had been a factor at that point. I don't blame the ground forces I blame the higher Sr leadership in the White House and in the Pentagon for how it all played out. That is my opinion on this.

Response by SSG John Erny made Oct 3 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-10-03T16:50:09-04:00

US for trusting that they were ready to protect their own country and theirs for not using what we taught them. Some thing tells me they do not have a strong NCO core.

Response by CPT Robert Skinner made Oct 17 at 2014 3:28 PM

2014-10-17T15:28:21-04:00

CPT Springer,

Did we close in and destroy the enemy in 2003? Did we accomplish the mission of removing Sadaam Hussein from power?

The failure in Iraqi Freedom as you stated in my opinion was purely political, Don Rumsfeld, and General Officers afraid to stand up to a bully! (I understand strategic operations are handled by senior officers) To afraid or to go against the current of the time except for one, General Shinseki. They scoffed at his attempt to give an accurate picture to congress. So what did Don Rumsfeld do, he said you can retire.

I also believe we must address the responsibility of the Iraqi army and how the have inherent responsibility to their people and country.

I would argue that every war has been mishandled since WWII, given the current political atmosphere at the time.

Response by Cpl Robert Masi made Oct 17 at 2014 4:38 PM

2014-10-17T16:38:05-04:00

The failure came when we thought we could make a change.
1. Gorilla Warfare has never been defeated. It's how America became independent.
2. You can't fight terrorist groups. They are indistinguishable from the civilians. You either go to war with a country, or you don't let any of them into your country...you can't fight a terrorist organization, and keep letting potential terrorists into your own country at the same time....you want to talk about creating the 9/11 incident? We did that by allowing them into our country....the Boston Bombing? We allowed that to happen because the FBI didn't deport them, despite the rules that said we were supposed to a year prior. But it wasn't Politically Correct to deport them.
3. Allowed to much media coverage. No one will doubt that the major media sways public opinion. And when a majority are Liberals, the group of people that blame America if some kid in Africa gets a hangnail, then it's a recipe for a pull out before the jobs is done.
4. The President. Who's platform for election was to pull out, and then when ISIS started to take over, Obama being himself said "I never wanted to pull out of Iraq" (yea he said that).
5. The Generals who would not stand up and tell Obama he is wrong and stupid. I blame all Military leadership who did what Obama told them to do because they were afraid of him, instead of doing the right thing.

-I blame them even now for agreeing to send 4,000 US troops to Liberia, so they can contract the Ebola Virus and bring it back to the states in various strategically placed bases around the country.....Sometimes you just have to smack a child, or else they run you over with bad ideas. And Obama should have been smacked around a long time ago.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2014 5:17 PM

2014-10-17T17:17:16-04:00

I think it's a tough to point the finger at one specific cause. But I heard this critique and thought it was dead on: if you're going to go to war, you have to be in it to win it. Undoubtably as servicemen, we are more than willing to do what's necessary, but it's really a critique on the politics and American people. I don't think the politicians were in it to win it. They wanted overnight-quick results.

Being involved in a war, especially like Iraq, is a long term conflict. One of my biggest complaints that really gets under my skin is hearing "the American people are tired of war", "America is war weary" - when less than 1% of the population actually enlists and is directly impacted by war. It's not like WWII or Vietnam where there was a draft and everyone had to contribute, which leads me to think that the typical american doesn't understand what it takes to win a war like this, views any kind of conflict as bad, and thus politicians move to pull us out because that's where the public opinion is to keep their careers.

The political class wasn't in it to win it. When you leave before you've finished, you get Iraq - and subsequently, ISIS.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Oct 18 at 2014 7:28 AM

2014-10-18T07:28:15-04:00

the weAK ASSED PREZZZZZZZZZZ

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 18 at 2014 2:17 PM

2014-10-18T14:17:05-04:00

In there under false pretenses with manufactured intelligence to support the reasoning, to overthrow a man that we supported to some degree as far as arming him with weapons to use against Iran. Once Overthrown the new government won't sign a SOFA with us which puts our Armed Forces in a bind. The list is endless for the Failures there. No win situation from the get go like so many. Good Idea to cut our loses and leave and the sooner the better, although I have no problem against using it as a location to bomb the holy wee wee out of ISIS and any other Religious Fundementalist Ding Dongs that happen to be a problem there.

Response by CSM William Payne made Oct 18 at 2014 4:12 PM

2014-10-18T16:12:26-04:00

I have already responded to this question but have an update to my original response based on some conversations I have had recently with resources that would know.

Not withstanding that we already had an agreement in place to leave Iraq when we did, the inability to sign a new Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) was a symptom to the real issue as to why we are not there as opposed to being the real issue.

The DOD had a number in mind of the number of personnel it wanted to leave in country to have a concentration of mass to handle any situation that might arise and to ensure the security of our forces. Maliki would not agree to a number anywhere near what we wanted to leave in country because he was worried that it would make him look like an American puppet, especially to his Sunni neighbors to the east in Iran.

His unwillingness to negotiate that number and / or willingness to put our Soldiers in a compromised situation made the lack of a new Status of Forces agreement mute at that point.

So the Iraqi Government in general and Prime Minister al-Maliki in specific were responsible for creating the fractured country, the failed military and the resulting chaos that Iraq finds itself in today.

The shame is that Iraq is a beautiful country with many major historical sites within its borders, it has oil, it has more water between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers then any other Arab country. Before we invaded there was one of the largest concentrations of Christians living in any country in the Middle East. They lived in relative peace under Saddam's rule.

Having spent a year there from 2006 to 2007 with the specific purpose of training the Iraqi military and providing Soldiers to also assist in training its National Police it kills me to see the state of Iraq today. What a disappointment. Unless the new government under al-Abadi can build a true coalition government and is more accommodating for our assistance, we are just spinning our wheels.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Oct 18 at 2014 6:06 PM

2014-10-18T18:06:20-04:00

Everyone that let us go into that region in the first place, allowed us to stay there, or allows us to continue to buy their oil is to blame.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2014 3:08 PM

2014-10-20T15:08:20-04:00

Obama

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2014 1:24 AM

2014-10-24T01:24:30-04:00

Bremmer, Chenney and Rummy screwed up. The original plan was to restore order with an Iraq Army General that was willing to work with us. Leaving it a dictatorship with the expectations to slowly bring peace and democracy would have prevented the power vacuum and resentment that followed the next decade.

Response by Cpl Shawn Hueter made Nov 4 at 2014 9:37 PM

2014-11-04T21:37:17-05:00

The Iraqi Government has failed in its mission. The only reason why they were stabled was because we were there to keep these nut jobs at bay. Once we left the government had no policies in place on how to deal with this crisis. 7,000 years of fighting.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 9:29 PM

2014-12-06T21:29:30-05:00

This is a difficult subject to broach on this forum because, for so many of us, Iraq is not yet far enough removed for those of us who were there to maintain objectivity. And, with the global rise of ISL, it has now boomeranged back into our professional lives as a potential hotspot.

At this point, it's difficult to assign blame, and we should probably refrain from trying to find a correlation between the withdrawal in Iraq and the rise of ISL. From what I have observed, the rise of ISL is directly related to what happened, and is still happening, in Syria.

As long as there is a United States of America, there will always be an ISL, or an Al Qaeda, or a Taliban, or an Al who gives a shit. The point is, they are waging a war of ideology whose message is oppression and subjugation. They will wage that war on all free people until those free people appropriately and proportionately discourage them from doing so.

So, who is to blame for our failures in Iraq? I do not know. Bremer made some decisions that adversely impacted our mission in Iraq. The Coalition Provisional Authority, staffed with twenty something year old college graduates who had no experience in the area in which they were assigned, made decisions that adversely impacted our mission in Iraq. Executive decisions on enhanced interrogation techniques adversely impacted our mission in Iraq. Military leaders that did not understand counterinsurgency made decisions that adversely impacted our mission in Iraq. Congressional representatives who never engaged in debate on the justification that we used to invade Iraq.

If we have failed, then our failure is as a nation. We bear a collective guilt for what we did because we allowed people in positions of public trust to pursue personal agendas rather than pursue policies that were in accordance with our democratic principles.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Dec 7 at 2014 12:33 PM

2014-12-07T12:33:37-05:00

The question needs to be worded better. The way it is currently worded evokes an immediate emotional response with people. I know of nothing that the US Military was tasked to do that was a failure. Now, at the Political/Strategic level, there were many decisions/ Policies that history has shown us were wrong and ended up not working as planned/envisioned.

But, instead of wasting our time trying to figure out/ debate "who's fault it is", we should be focused on "how are we going to fix it", because it has to be fixed! Who is responsible to fix it today is the current leadership (USA, Iraq, NATO, and whoever else has interests in the area).

"One day I was walking around and saw something wrong, and I thought 'Someone' needs to fix this. Then I realized I was 'Someone'!"

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 12:42 PM

2014-12-07T12:42:15-05:00

Multiple things are to blame for the failure in Iraq. We pulled out knowing the job wasn't done and that once we left, it was up to a government that had not cemented itself. The Iraqi gov. for not being prepared is also to blame. I wasn't a huge fan when we pulled out and were still getting attacked so I don't believe the blame just goes to one person or organization.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 8 at 2014 5:08 PM

2014-12-08T17:08:26-05:00

I blame the Iraqi government it was deteriorating prior to ISIS so to me they took advantage of the situation.

Response by 1SG Mark Colomb made Dec 8 at 2014 7:16 PM

2014-12-08T19:16:25-05:00

How about blaming the Iraqi's? It is their country, they are ultimately responsible. We left them with the tools and knowledge, they failed on the performance end.

Response by SSG William Patton made Dec 9 at 2014 1:25 PM

2014-12-09T13:25:19-05:00

The failure is due to several factors. First, we have tried to install democracies in nations where dictators or tribal chieftans have historically been the power in each nation. Second, and maybe most important is our failure to understand the cultures. We made the same mistake in Vietnam and did not learn our lesson. For a democracy to take hold there must be a higher level of education so the people can understand the fallacy of their current leaders goals and what could be achieved in a democracy. Finally, islam. Anyone who does not believe in islam is an infidel and therefore must die, according to the koran. The key tenet of the governing law is sharia law and that is based in the koran. Democracy will never work in the middle east and as long as islam is present, we will be at war with these people. Better to obliterate them than have them annilate the world, which is their goal.

Response by SPC Scott Grother made Jan 30 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-01-30T15:54:11-05:00

I am not sure you can figure that out in anything less than a encyclopedia set worth of books. Do we just talk about OIF, or go back to when we helped Saddam into power or when we played both sides of the Iran/Iraq conflict or when we encouraged the Kurds and Iraqis in the south to rebel after the First Gulf War and then left them on their own. I got out right before 9/11 so I didn't go, but it seems to me that it was mostly civilian leadership that failed. The troops did everything there were asked and trained to do and more, but it was like we never had a real objective of what victory was.

I think most of the responsibility for the current situation falls on al-Maliki and the government. They didn't want to lead or be inclusive, they wanted to settle old scores and created a toxic environment for a large portion of their population

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Jan 30 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-01-30T16:31:20-05:00

During the prep for Iraq at Ft. Stewart during the Warfighter exercise in December 2002 & January 2003, we kind of knew what the outcome would be. It was a conventional war turned into an insurgency. The maps we used were of Algeria. The French endeavour there was considered an unwinnable war. It was not pretty. At the end of our exercise, it just ended without much being obtained except to win militarily but not totally. Pretty much just like how Algeria ended up for the French. Operation Iraqi Freedom was there to end the cat & mouse game Sadaam was playing. He played the robber with his finger in his pocket making us believe he had WMDs that he really didn't have. Him & his sons had to go but beyond that, there was no total victory to be had there. It was a barely settled region before the European influence 100 years ago. They have to settle their country now even if it's not pretty.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-01-30T16:46:43-05:00

I hold the current administation to blame for he current state of affairs in Iraq. I am in no way attempting to be partisan but President Obama and his administration have been in charge for the past seven years and need to quit placing their foregin policy gaffs and failures on the President Bush.

The Arab Spring which ushred in a lot of the turmoil in the Middle East is a direct result of President Obama making his trip and speech at the University of Cairo and making a call for change in the region during his first year in office. Add to this the obvious failure and lack of leadership on the part of the President and the United States to take the lead on numerous security and defense issues. The President had one goal - make a hasty retreat from Iraq and Afghanistan. All our enemies had to do was sit and wait. We have a President who does not acknowledge Islamic Terrorism; underestimated ISIS; coddles the Muslim Brotherhood; exchanges terrorist leaders for an Army deserter; and now refuses to call the Taliban terrorists.

President Bush is responsible for 2001 to 2008 and the failure and successes in that period just as President Obama is responsbile for the failures and small successes during his adminstration.

Response by PO1 Adam Hendricks made Jan 30 at 2015 4:53 PM

2015-01-30T16:53:54-05:00

BHO

Response by SPC Phil L made Jan 30 at 2015 5:33 PM

2015-01-30T17:33:59-05:00

George W Bush. He was president and commander in chief. He said that Iraq was awash in WMD's and a threat to the United States. none of which was true. His war has destabilized the middle east for decades to come.

Response by SN Nick Backman made Jan 30 at 2015 5:38 PM

2015-01-30T17:38:27-05:00

My generation should have taken out Saddam out in 1991.... that was the failure

Response by SSG William Patton made Jan 30 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-01-30T17:56:04-05:00

First, I question the decision to remove Saddam from power. Sure he was an evil bastard, but then, so are most leaders in that part of the world. We knew he had WMDs because we sold him the weapons during the Iraq/Iran War. Even though we were unable to verify there existence many years later, it caused conflict early on when they could not be located and that was the excuse the Bush Administration used to invade. All of that is water under the bridge so to speak now. The takeover of many parts of the country by radical muzzies illustrates the mistake of not leaving a sizable force there to ensure something like ISIS did not occur. We should have realized after al Queda tried to seize power while we were there, that another group of radicals would attempt the same. The situation there now is the fault of the current administration in my opinion. The muzzie in charge has demonstrated how he feels about our military and our nation many times and none have been positive. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Response by SPC Joe Boots made Jan 30 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-01-30T17:58:20-05:00

failure in iraq was destined to happen... they want the chaos in the middle east. someone does at least.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 5:58 PM

2015-01-30T17:58:28-05:00

The majority of the reasons are political.

1) The American people are just not willing to fight like we did in WWII. Admittedly that's because of the combined influence of the panty-waste, limp-wristed liberals and the "blame America first" wacko, both darlings of the media. But Bush should have recognized that and planned for sufficient violence to end the war quickly and decisively.

I was in Kuwait in 2003, waiting for the war to start. Bush expected Saddam to back down, which any student of Arabic strongmen would say is highly unlikely. Then March got around, we had 12,000 troops stacked up like cordwood in a base built for 1500, and Bush was advised that we needed to go, or wait to September, to avoid fighting in the summer (which we did anyway.) And don't forget that we intended a two-pronged attack, with the northern force leaving from Turkey.

So there were definite planning problems, largely because Bush wasn't ready for Saddam to persist in defiance.

2) More or less a follow on to number 1, we had no definite plan for what to do when we won. We didn't pacify behind us, and the Iraqis who surrendered didn't have any leadership or guidance.

An example, the mujaheddin took some families prisoner and threatened to kill them if the soldiers didn't get back in their tanks and attack. So 11 tanks came down the road and were slaughtered by the British forces holding Basra.

3) We knew some of the bad guys weren't going to play nice. Mookie is the prime example. We should have arranged for someone to drop a rock on his head. 90% of the problems with the Shi'a in Baghdad were Mookie's responsibility.

4) We allowed the Iraqi government to play while we paid. We should have insisted on them taking more responsibility, or not let them in power in the first place.

5) Both in Iraq and In Afghanistan the family of a suicide bomber receives money, generally about $5000, which will feed a family for about 20 years. One big reason the Iraqi and Afghan armies have no balls is the soldier is often the only moneymaker in the family, and the family will starve if he dies. We should have recognized this and insisted on at least equivalent payments to help them find some guts.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 30 at 2015 6:06 PM

2015-01-30T18:06:59-05:00

Le me the devils advocate here...we the voters allowed this to happen, we pushed for it as a nation in 2003, we fell for the hype, we ignored the obvious and we put out patriotism over our common sense. It sounds harsh but in retrospect it is clear...wars are not fought to be won these days, I hope we now see this and act accordingly in the future.

I ASK that when and if anyone comments, or please do not read into my words, create a statement I did not write and then insult me as if I meant what you wrote.

I am however up for an invigorating, civil debate.

Steady on,
Steven

Response by SFC Kyle Gibson made Jan 30 at 2015 6:21 PM

2015-01-30T18:21:18-05:00

The politicians are to blame for the miss handling of OIF with all their rules of ingagement, if they would have let us do our jobs we would not be in this mess.

Response by SSgt James Connolly made Jan 30 at 2015 6:47 PM

2015-01-30T18:47:50-05:00

It definetly was not our Military, it was the POTUS and Congress and our own families and citizens, it almost got to be like NAM all over again

Response by SFC Jay Needham made Jan 30 at 2015 7:27 PM

2015-01-30T19:27:08-05:00

George W Bush..

Response by TSgt Jason Thompson made Jan 30 at 2015 7:29 PM

2015-01-30T19:29:07-05:00

The first failure was us going in and destabilizing the country. Yes, Saddam was a ruthless dictator, but he also represented a stable Iraq, no matter how great our issues were with his policies.

The second failure was all Nouri al-Maliki. Members of both sides of the US political coin - caveat: the ones who actually think strategy and mission accomplishment, rather than just brown nosing the popular opinion - knew we were withdrawing far too soon. We approached Maliki for stay of complete departure until the Iraqi forces were truly ready multiple times (no argument as to whether that would ever had occurred), and he kept shooting the proposal down under the mantra that US forces had achieved enough. (It also didn't help that he is corrupt to the bone.)

Response by SPC Stephen Mouret made Jan 30 at 2015 7:40 PM

2015-01-30T19:40:50-05:00

The Iraqi government and their troops are the reason for failure

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Jan 30 at 2015 7:45 PM

2015-01-30T19:45:52-05:00

It starts with the wrong-headed notion that you can win a purely political war. Lack of vision to end state, lack of cultural awareness and inefficient planning significantly contributed as did war profiteering. I was in Kuwait from 2000 to 2003 at the US Embassy. I watched this all come together. In 2000, Condi Rice, a fellow at the Hoover Institute, in The Economist, scolded then President Clinton of getting embroiled in Somalia and in 2003 she was the principal architect of what became the failed efforts in Iraq. When the first attempt: ORHA went down it flames it had provided enough time for State to rally and consider a triumvirate with 3 regional governors. The appointees were so bad it was scrapped and Breamer came in as a modern Caliphate. He ruled by edict. He fired all of the professional soldiers and disbanded the Army. He failed to pull the Iraqi Dinar from circulation and replace it with scrip until new bills could be issued. Failing to do that meant the old Ba'ath party guys kept BILLIONS to hire the guys Breamer fired. Two of Saddam's Lt. Cols became the immediate Deputies to al-Baghdadi and are the principal leaders of Daesh (ISIL/ISIS). Breamer insisted on religious identities being put on the Iraqi National ID card. This got a lot of people killed, either getting their eyeballs drilled out or decapitated (Shi'ial/Sunni). I worked in Baghdad in 2006 as a contractor. I know we hired unqualified, inexperienced contractors, some with with no actual skills in their area who simply never went to work and lied on their time cards while they hung out at the pools in the Green Zone. I knew of two people being identified as being complete frauds - after long service in country. Nobody knew and nobody seemed to care. However, the food was EXCELLENT and we often said the food service should be classified. We ate on china whenever a Congressional delegation came through, which was pretty often. We ate steak routnely and Sunday roast and lobsters were not to be missed. Haliburton overcharged for goods (toilet paper was especially poor - made in Poland, green, globs of glue making it mostly unusable), split mattress sets so one person had the mattress and one the box spring (but charged Uncle Same for full sets. The Iraqi leadership we promoted were all corrupt, but they were Shi'ia, so that was OK. A Supply commander (Brigadier General) had all supplies delivered to his compound -- an outdoor warehouse/bazaar for appliances. He was selling them. The Navy commander was charging his divers for the air they used in diving to clear the harbor. Soldiers sold their rifles for $900 because we could not get linkage to set up a military justice system and give them even non-judicial punishment. We simply gave them more rifles. 400,000 M-4s, many of which now see service with Daesh. We didn't put LOJACK systems into any of the big ticket items we gave them -- police cars (a bunch were stolen on arrival and used to kidnap and later execute members of the Iraqi Olympic team. Militarily the plan was to stand up 18 Brigades in 18 Months. I don't think they could say they've effectively stood up anything. We wanted them to adopt the UCMJ (they were using British Rules of War and were resistant to accepting wholly new doctrine so they simply stalled the process. Companies were playing at developing advanced training methodologies. Nobody ever got trained in best practices. The soldiers and police officers assigned as teachers did a terrific job - one on one with the troops-- it was the Iraqi senior leadership that was incompetent. There is plenty of blame to go around and few people who will stand up and take the hit or for some even admitting they were ever there.

Response by PO3 Stephen Michael made Jan 30 at 2015 8:12 PM

2015-01-30T20:12:04-05:00

GWB. As I learned in the Navy, you can delegate authority, you can't delegate responsibility. Did we learn anything from this? Not likely.
"Hubris is one of the great renewable resources" -P.J. O'Rourke

Response by PO3 Michael James made Jan 30 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-01-30T20:13:05-05:00

Ok.. Sorry, not to cause trouble.. however, Our Military always needs the Support and Blessings of the Citizens of this country !!! Did we loose the Vietnam War ?? Who does NOT listen to our Generals ? Who declares War, sending thousands of young men, and now women into "harms Way" and then decides to cut the funding ? All of us just Followed Orders, we did not desert, we did not dodge the "draft" We certainly are not to fault, when what looked good on paper, did not work !

Response by SSgt Hal Kiah made Jan 30 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-01-30T21:10:54-05:00

I would have to say that it was a screw up in a number of areas, both politically, and stratigically, with the politics having a heavier hand in the matter. Going into Iraq was something that I was not in favor of, and hoped was a course that GW would not take. I can't, and won't put the blame on him, like the current administration and others have done, primarily because it was a decision made, based on the purported intell that we had available. Then polkitics took over after the change of administration. With the early pull , and comlete (which was wrong, no mater How you look at it) out of our forces, it was a heavy game changer for the people of Iraq, along with the fact that politics within Iraq were playing a heavy and negative role in how things were being handled, along with so many Iraqi "soldiers" abandoning their posts, and weapons because of their fears of a contingent of extremists that, if the countries troops had held their ground and acted like soldiers, I believe the threat could have been stopped, before it went any further. So there are a number of places where fingers could be pointed at.

Response by SSgt Hal Kiah made Jan 30 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-01-30T21:14:39-05:00

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 30 at 2015 9:18 PM

2015-01-30T21:18:24-05:00

Is anyone surprised that any discussion of "Who is responsible for our failure in Iraq?" has wandered so far afield? This is politically charged stuff. No, make that ideologically charged.

Yes, there was some disagreement with the Iraqis over the Force Agreement, but that was just a political posture adopted to rationalize the withdrawal. The decision to withdraw was made long before President Obama was even elected.

The simple fact is that President Obama placed himself in a box. He had no choice to "end the war" without regard for the situation there. He made it a key campaign promise, castigated President Bush for even going there in the first place, pooh-poohed the idea of WMDs, and all the rest. To cast it in military terms, he put his political forces on line and charged without first determining the tactical situation.

Does all this mean that President Obama is to blame? Maybe.

Now, let's deal with the side issues that have been raised in this discussion thread...

There are those who argue that the error falls on the shoulders of those who committed us to the war in the first place. They seek to blame President Bush because Sadaam was already contained, he posed no threat. Really? Is it really that simple?

Let's look at the broader picture. Iraq threatened US vital interests in the region when Sadaam invaded Kuwait. He threatened to take control of oil supplies flowing from that part of the world which would have put him in the catbird's seat for determining socio-political outcomes all over the world. The coalition that drove him back to his own borders didn't stop because they had won a war. They stopped by virtue of an armistice, an agreement wherein Sadaam agreed to open his borders to inspectors to demonstrate that he did not have the capability to do it again.

Sadaam reneged on that agreement. He broke the armistice. The coalition was not only legally empowered to resume hostilities, it was obligated to do so. To fail to respond to Sadaam's actions, would be to encourage him and other tyrants to embark on other misadventures. The coalition would have, in effect, defanged the international community and the rule of international law.

Now, as to those who argue that there were no WMD's, let's put that one to rest for once and for all. The WMD's were found. The yellow cake was found. American service members are suffering the effects of being exposed to them. Can we now stop talking about that one?

So, we come back to President Obama's withdrawal. Was it premature? Well, to answer that we have to ask, did he have an option?

Of course, there was an option. It's an option that we should have exercised in Vietnam as well as Iraq. It's an option that we exercised in Korea, Germany, and Japan, and has been proven effective in each and every case. We could have left a Trigger Force. A complement of US and coalition forces just strong enough to defend themselves and justify a full deployment if attacked in the future. A warning to hostile forces that we would return if they failed to "behave".

There you have it. That's my opinion. Responses welcome...

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-01-30T21:24:17-05:00

The War was unconstitutional and pointless in the first place. I blame the American people (to include myself) that were bamboozled into supporting the psychopaths in D.C. in waging this war to begin with.

Response by SPC Thomas Webb made Jan 30 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-01-30T21:50:57-05:00

I don't think it was a failure... The Powers That Be got exactly what they wanted out of it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 9:57 PM

2015-01-30T21:57:09-05:00

This is a horribly complicated question with no good answer. 100 years of geopolitics lay behind the power shift with thousands underlying the sectarian violence. But I put a lot of blame for this at the feet of the current administration. By withdrawing troops while removing and supporting the removal of the strawmen dictators the west had put in that stabilized the region. The al Qaida in Iraq was bad enough but when we started financing Isis in Syria and running guns through Libya to them, we secured chaos in Iraq.

Response by SGT Kenneth Duncan made Jan 30 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-01-30T22:02:12-05:00

Just look at what is happening now, NOTHING. We have a lead from behind President.

Response by SSG Jeremy Larkin made Jan 30 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-01-30T22:04:25-05:00

I Think it falls with the Iraqi Military, They don't take the training that we have given our lives to give them Seriously, But they will now. We as soldiers and Leader did what was expected of us, Now its time for a County to do what a County does, Become self Sufficient. We didn't screw up. But we did over estimate the people we were supposed to be Helping.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Jan 30 at 2015 10:05 PM

2015-01-30T22:05:46-05:00

When there is a war there is money to be made, when the money isn't enough time to quit. My stepson was a sniper in Iraq, his biggest complaint was that he had to sit and watch the enemy fire mores into fireballs while waiting for permission to take them out, a lot of time it was hit and run, so when permission came there was no one to fire at. Our values have changed to much, politics and money dictated the startING and stopping. Don't build me a house and not put on the doors and windows, do send people to fight for you unless you are going to finish the job. When the money is weak and public opinion is strong, we are still dying while they are trying to find a way out and keep their wealth, jobs, and power for another day.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-01-30T22:15:47-05:00

The same ones that were responsible for us losing in Vietnam. The Federal Government. They talk a good show but when it comes down to it, they are all mouth. If they think some raw recruits can go into a country that have been fighting wars since before Jesus was born, and train and change their thoughts about other Arab nations, they are nuts. From what I've seen since Iraq 1992, they, the people, are lazy, either stupid or don't care, and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. When we are finally out of the Middle East, things will return to the way it was before we wasted all those lives and injuries trying to teach them and reform them. Sadly, it's all a crock. IMHO

Response by SSG Joel Senn made Jan 30 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-01-30T22:42:02-05:00

I think the proposed question ignores the catalyst of what "caused" the United States to invade a sovereign nation? I served Active Duty for 10 years, with 3 tours to Iraq...initially I was enraged, but only because the misinformation and propaganda that was designed for that end. Freedom is fundamentally an oxymoron for a people conditioned to believe that "Nationalism" and "Freedom" are in direct opposition to their faith. The people of Iraq and other Muslim nations cannot bridge the gap in their understanding of the benefits gained through a non-totalitarian, non-religious form of government. They cannot separate "church and state" they are quite literally one-in-the-same! So to pointedly answer the question, I propose one of my own: What in your life experience, would a successful outcome in Iraq resemble? Given the recent world current, how would that be accomplished? Because Iraq is only the stage this genocide is being featured, but is rapidly becoming a blockbuster hit sweeping the world

Response by TSgt Phillip Temple made Jan 30 at 2015 10:42 PM

2015-01-30T22:42:18-05:00

We had an example in the Kuwait conflict. When the President at the time refused
to follow the Powell doctrine, he guaranteed the quagmire that inevitably followed,
replaying most of the failures of the Vietnam conflict...engaged in a conflict that
could not be "won", especially given the history of the region.

I'm not even going to address a sitting President getting on an aircraft carrier with a big sign saying,well, you know....

Now, if you look at which businesses made a huge profit from this conflict...it's
like a old NCO once told me...Follow The Money..

Response by LTC Allen Crowley made Jan 30 at 2015 11:19 PM

2015-01-30T23:19:32-05:00

I love the line, "Not trying start a debate here." Blame seems a bit petty, and responsibility falls from the top down, the CiC to senior leaders. The factors though are so numerous that I'd run out of characters before listing them, not to mention addressing them all. Strategic policy, Foreign policy, and national readiness, are key issues on the governmental side. Military/Industrial preparation, clarity of mission, and Joint planning, were important issues on the military side. Organization of the Coalition Provisional Authority and integration of the coalition politically were significant factors. The structure of our economy,(the Finance, Insurance, Real Estate [F.I.R.E.] model) played an important role in hindering our ability to prepare in advance, coordinate industry, and work with our foreign partners.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 12:54 AM

2015-01-31T00:54:49-05:00

The Infantry!!!! No, just kidding.

I feel it could be both the Bush administration not having a clear, defined strategy for victory, claiming victory too soon and the Obama administration for not having a clear, defined exit strategy that took into account the three warring factions (Shiats, Sunnis and Kurds)

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 1:07 AM

2015-01-31T01:07:06-05:00

Their Government we gave them the tools and the training. You cannot instill a nations pride and the call to freedom without struggle. Their own people are not willing to stand up and take the reigns on this. Personally I would love to go back there I think there are a lot of us on here that have unfinished business over there.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Jan 31 at 2015 1:46 AM

2015-01-31T01:46:25-05:00

Not removing Hussain during Desert Storm? UN failure to keep tabs on WMDs entering the country?

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Jan 31 at 2015 5:56 AM

2015-01-31T05:56:44-05:00

That's a really easy answer. Our military has never lost a fight a politician started. Politicians have lost fights military finished. WWI is a good example. Had the politicians of the day not gone so hard core on Germany wanting to punish them for everything in all likelyhood WWII would not have happened. The best current example...ISIS, Iraq which was won under Bush in '07 when I was there. It was lost after that by ignoring an emerging threat. Only a fol gives away what he has earned. We earned a victory there with our Iraqi partners, and had to watch while it was given away. That is not how you keep the peace after a war. People were screaming a out when we were leaving Iraq and Afghanistan. I woukd pose them ine question. When did we leave Japan, Germany, or Korea after the war? Why would Iraq or Afghanistan have to be any different?

Response by CSM Frank Graham made Jan 31 at 2015 6:01 AM

2015-01-31T06:01:09-05:00

I blame the Iraqi government and the infleunce from Iran. The Iraqi government failed by not wrapping their arms around the Sunnis and Kurds. That is their failure. Our Armed Forces did their jobs along with our government support. I was personally a part of the Awakening process in Iraq when the Sunnis helped the US rid the Anbar province of Al Qaeda. If the Iraqi government would bring these two groups on board and include them into their Armed Forces or let them be responsible for their sectors and support them with government funds Iraq would be secured. The most important thing of all is to stop listening to Iran and run their own country. I think Iraq could be stable.

Response by SPC John Holbrooks made Jan 31 at 2015 7:28 AM

2015-01-31T07:28:18-05:00

Barack HUSSEIN Obama and Nouri Al-Maliki

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Jan 31 at 2015 8:31 AM

2015-01-31T08:31:18-05:00

the benObama administration failure to push for the status of forces agreement and the announcement of a withdraw date was the turning point. In Nam we won all the battles and lost the war politically and it is the same in Iraq. Or you could go back to Gulf War 1 when we stopped because of our self imposed goal for pushing the Iraqi's out. So blame administrations back to Bush 41. Not completing the mission. That being the destruction of an enemy's ability to wage war. Or blame us, we the people, because we do not have the stomach to finish what we start. People die in war and we as a people, in my opinion, could not take the news of casualties in the 100's or more. In the civil war Shilo 15K plus, and more in later battles. 1. Political will 2. goal of complete destruction of an enemy, 3. Many casualties, and 4. we as a collective by not demanding victory. ANd it is happening again in Afganistan, and the over all war on terror.

Response by SGT Mike Ok made Jan 31 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-01-31T08:39:46-05:00

The West, or better, the Administration in that there was a "cultural understanding failure". Was Hussein a "bad man"? Of that, I have no doubt but but he was merely like a cork in a bottle for the region.
Just an IMHO

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-01-31T09:29:24-05:00

Well it starts at the top President Obama has not done enough to fight them, his unwillingness to do anything has made a mess of the military, he does not even like the military with what he's doing. But we should have gone in and trained or fought along side those fighters already. He says he doesn't want another war, but the minute he started bombing them we are in one. Everyone knows that air power can not win wars or even slow them down to much with out ground forces.

Response by SFC Leon Chlebowski made Jan 31 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-01-31T09:30:33-05:00

The Failure in Iraq is squarely on the shoulders of the senior leadership(military), it seemed that most were worried about their next promotion more then the outcome of the conflict, the rules of engagement should have never put us at a disadvantage, it happened in Iraq Afganistan and Vietnam, thats what happened, and that was the fault of the senior leadership, it dragged on to long which gave the civilians time to start feeling sorry for the terrorists, we could have ended everything a lot sooner, in all the conflicts.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Jan 31 at 2015 9:37 AM

2015-01-31T09:37:09-05:00

Who is to blame? As if there can be a single person to point a finger at. There are many to blame, and so I'm not going to point a single finger at a single person, but I will share a list.

- Perhaps we shouldn't have jumped into Iraq, since Al Qaeda was operating in Afghanistan.
- Of course Saddam and his Sunni minority WAS tyrannical, but we make deals with
Tyrants all the time, and in the 1980's Saddam was OUR tyrant against the Iranians, and
lets not forget that it was Saddam who broke the OPEC oil embargo by selling us oil in the
1970's.
- The question here is not who is to blame, but why would we do such a thing without
CLEAR and STATED objectives that include an end game. (Democracy doesn't work
in tribal societies, particularly those that have a potentially volatile religion in play.) A look
a whole host of similar societies proves this to be true.

- It should be clear by now that the Muslims in such areas don't even get along with each
other. When Saddam (Sunni minority) took control he treated the Shias, and the Kurds as
as second class citizens, and when the Kurds rose up against him he DID treat them harshly,
including WMD. (Of course WMD have been used in Syria, though by whom seems to be
unclear, and we haven't done anything about it.) Under Saddam, there WAS a modicum
of ORDER, and even Christians (if they weren't rising up) were tolerated, and even protected.
This proved to NOT be the case under the elected government of Iraq.
- Once "Democracy" was forced in place (I was there on Jan 31, 2004 for one of Iraq's
largest votes) the majority Shias took control, and treated the Sunni's poorly.

- So, replacing the tyranny of a Dictator with the tyranny of the Majority proved to NOT be
a solution, particularly in a religiously divided, tribal society.

- It could be argued that it didn't matter WHEN we left Iraq. The outcome wouldn't have
been much different, only delayed.

- What is TRULY troubling about all this is that even those who rallied against our intervention
in Iraq, have, and continue to follow the same model.
- We supported the ousting of Mubarak in Egypt to be replaced with a Muslim
Brotherhood (terrorist) party with Morsi, only to be overthrown in a Coup d' etat.
Clearly the Military is influencing much of the Egyptian government.
- I could go on about our support for the overthrow of Qaddafi in Libya, and Al Assad,
in Syria, and to a lesser degree, the violent changes of government in Tunisia, Sudan,
and Yemen.

So, in conclusion, I don't see how anybody can point the finger at a single person, or even a single administration so long as successive administrations and Congresses keep supporting the idea that one tyrannical government is somehow better than another, the only difference being the government's propensity to do what we want them to do. Until people, and governments, particularly those of the Western variety, are willing to objectively look at the nature of the threats we face, we will continue to help orchestrate the game of tyrannical musical chairs in these volatile tribal-religious despotic dictatorships and democracies. Remember, the tyranny of the majority is as despotic as the tyranny of the dictator. some may argue more-so because the "majority" leaves no one in particular to point the finger at for it's atrocities.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jan 31 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-01-31T10:14:37-05:00

I see where the main stream news media asking why did we lose in Iraq----When we started this war the liberals were screaming we lost the war---the fact is if those type of people were running the government in December 1941 most of us wouldn't be alive and the few million of former Americans would probably be speaking German and Japanese.
ISIS is getting their asses kicked by the Kurds, and I'm sure there will be trouble between the Kurds, who are grabbing up territory and the Bagdad government. The facts are Saddam Husain is dead and his family is out of power, and the terrorists are losing their grip on Iraq

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jan 31 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-01-31T10:35:14-05:00

I don't think the U.S. failed in our military mission. I do feel mistakes were made and things would have been better off if prior planning was better.

I went into Iraq in a soft side Hummer and remember civilians happy to see us. I also saw things change. I feel one of the biggest fails was when "East meets West". We had no pre-knowledge of customs of the area. I feel if we'd gotten a little more info on their culture and such many mistakes wouldn't have happened. I also feel Bremer's cutting out all the Iraqi military was a mistake. There were many Iraqi military leaders just waiting at the doors to help, but were over looked. Same with the police and local leaders. We didn't expect everything to collapse like it did. We expected it to be like Germany, with local leaders, police and such to be around so as to help out, but everything disappeared and we were left hanging. It was a struggle. When we took over much of the infrastructure was almost at a collapse, electrical, water and such were working, but the systems were so run down, plus the bombing didn't help much. There wasn't much of a Phase IV plan for the "Occupation" phase of the operation. Again the biggest thing that caught us off guard was the total collapse of "help". Ammo dumps were left completely unguarded and open, free for the pickins and believe you me, they got picked!

Now Iraq turned into the play ground for every extremists in the world. Free arms, explosives and such was the calling card. The virtually non-existing borders made access easy. Also the fact we pissed a lot of the locals off because we didn't know their customs didn't do any good. The Iraqis are a very "revenge" seeing society. They must save face and this mentality drove a lot of Iraqi to start to take actions against us and then the extremists coming into the country found pickings great and very easy to recruit these people.

Religion also played a big factor into what happened. The two factions Shi'a and Sunni didn't help. Because of the strong thumb SH held over the people this was repressed, after he was gone, and the local leaders were gone, then the poop hit the fan, of course outside help didn't make the situation better.

There's a lot to this and I've just skimmed the surface. The bottom rock is, Iraqi people have got to work together to get the country they want. The worst part is Iraq is still too "Tribal". Many are loyal to their local leaders and not to the country. Until they can overcome many of the differences and start to work together as one nation, it will never happen. Not our fault.

Response by SSG Jim Husselman made Jan 31 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-01-31T10:35:59-05:00

Folks in my humble opinion the major failure with our attempts to help Iraq, Afghanistan ect.. In that region is they do not want peace!! They have been fighting and killing each other for centuries. They will not take accountability for themselves and do the hard things required to maintain. We can take out a tyrant to liberate their masses but as long as the masses keep the sheeple mentality then the situation will always revert back to what has been their way of life for an eternity! Because there is always an out her bad guy and his crew that want to control the sheeple and will do the hard things to take them over so until they truly want a better way we are wasting our money, time and our great Soldiers lives.

Response by PO2 Kevin Soper made Jan 31 at 2015 10:35 AM

2015-01-31T10:35:59-05:00

I fought in a war so people can be free to be as they want. For me this includes people that are different than me and or do thing i do not like. This is free, this helps me here, I fought for other to do thing some people despise, including me. Then I can except it's okay for them to be as they are or did, doing, or will. I'd tarnish the polished free i won for them by my misguided bad. Sometime if I was guided to understand..... wisdom will ring clear. I need
....."I FOUGHT FOR THEM TO BE LIKE THAT"

Response by PO3 Armando Marquez made Jan 31 at 2015 10:45 AM

2015-01-31T10:45:23-05:00

The problem I believe is the region that Iraq is situated in. I can kind of see the middle east as a country and all the states are the countries in the area, united by their religion. From what I've seen isis isn't just in one place. They're moving throughout the region, overthrowing those that don't follow their ways and picking up believers as they go. The thing is that the whole region is unstable. The Muslim culture actually has many different views and some groups are starting to give voice and action to their beliefs as with isis and groups in other countries like Yemen and Egypt for example. To keep Iraq stable in such an active area I believe, unfortunately, that we or another UN country would have to set up long term residence their with two goals. One would be to protect Iraq from groups that wish to do the country harm. So a military presence would be needed. Two would be to see that they have education in all the things the western world is educated in. This second one may seem like forcing our beliefs on them but what I was thinking of more was in mechanics and chemistry for industrial applications. I was MOBed to Afghanistan not Iraq but from what I saw, the people seemed like high school kids as far as work. They liked to cut corners not realizing the detrimental effects it would have on either the equipment or their projects. So I think if we fix their industrial sector it may lead to a better economy and they may be able to sustain the themselves with that. Anyway that's just my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 10:49 AM

2015-01-31T10:49:15-05:00

1. Iraqis.
2. I never bought into the stupid idea that what's going on there now is the USA ' s fault. The Iraqi view of freedom and independence isn't even culturally similar to ours. The Bush and Obama administrations never faced reality. I don't say this out of racism or any of that kind of crap, but my personal experience.
3. You'll see similar results in Afghanistan very soon.

Response by SPC Mark Nestell made Jan 31 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-01-31T10:55:26-05:00

Obama

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 10:55 AM

2015-01-31T10:55:36-05:00

I guess it depends on what you deem a failure?

Vietnam was ended less due to military tactical or strategic weakness on our part and more due to a hostile media at the time turning public opinion against it (regardless of if it was a good or bad war to be involved in, that was why the US pulled out.)

The same was true with Iraq and, largely, Afghanistan (though there you also had top down blunders by the elected civilian leadership thinking they were better at directing wars than the Generals.) Instead of talking about our victories, the media largely focused on the death count. This was also shown o be nothing more than media political bias, as those reports came to an abrupt end in 2009 (when we had 2k troops die in Iraq it was on all the major news outlets. When we crossed that same number in Afghanistan, the media was basically silent.)

So instead of praising he efforts of our military, only failures or abises were mentioned. This tainted public opinion, and is also a large reason for the aversion to "boots on the ground" now. Americans have been convinced that fighting a "war" is bad, but that bombing people isn't really war, so that's Kay. Overall, this actually leads to more instability, as we've seen in Libya and Yemen.

I could be wrong, but I've become convinced that wars in the modern era are won and lost, not by tactics, capabilities, or strategies, but instead by median and their shaping of public opinion.

The only role strategy now plays is to attempt to end the war before the media driven public opinion has turned against it. If you end the war quickly, before the public mood sours, it is a "victory" (fisry Gulf War). If you do not, it is a "quagmire" (Vietnam, Afghanistan) until you pull out and the enemy retakes wham you bested them to get in the first place. Then it becomes a "failure" (Iraq).

Maybe I'm wrong, though...?

Response by SPC Phil L made Jan 31 at 2015 11:06 AM

2015-01-31T11:06:41-05:00

The Military is equally guilty. Nuremberg dispensed with the concept of "I was just following orders ". The American people were guilty for reelecting the bush gang. In other words we are all guilty to a degree. It troubles me to think there are those still out there that believe it was a noble cause. Iraq is about as noble a cause as the Philippine-American war of 1898.

Response by SPC Phil L made Jan 31 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-01-31T11:09:51-05:00

Yes genocide is the answer. After the rag heads lets solve that pesky Jewish problem too. Of course Christianity the epitome of brotherhood and tolerance. Not!

Response by CPO Wally Briones made Jan 31 at 2015 11:40 AM

2015-01-31T11:40:22-05:00

Paul Brenner screwed up when decided to disband the Iraqi military, Malakii won because Sunis didnt even vote. With the sects all divided they will never achieve piece.The Kurdish who started to built their own government is now the victim of Sunni and Shite conflict. Isis who are mostly Sunnis now want to take it all, thats the reason this bullshit will never end. We should help the Kurdish it seems like they are the only one who wants peace.Watch out Asia, Al qaeda And Sunis are Majority there. check the news in the Phiilippines, 44 special forces ambushed by Muslin rebels.

Response by MAJ Phil Bundy made Jan 31 at 2015 2:35 PM

2015-01-31T14:35:06-05:00

We invaded on a lie - the intel was faulty and we invaded on a lie.

Once the decision to invade was made all the doctrines we had been taught about how many troops would be needed were tossed out the window.

President Bush made the decision to invade, and the fault lies with him. He was the President.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-01-31T15:10:12-05:00

In hindsight I realize that Arab populations just so far have not been able to for any sort of democratic government. The really seem to need a strongman in charge. Iraq is no different unfortunately. The question of "who broke it" might be made moot by the question of "could it (an Arab democracy) ever have worked in the first place?".

Response by SSG Everett Wilson made Jan 31 at 2015 3:37 PM

2015-01-31T15:37:17-05:00

I feel it is our civilian leadership is to blame for the failure in Iraq. We learned after we left Nam, that the country was quickly over ran. If we had followed our lead after WWII, we discover that we left a strong (West) Germany. We left a weak Iraqi Government and we did nothing to really support them.

Response by SFC Charles W. Robinson made Jan 31 at 2015 4:52 PM

2015-01-31T16:52:46-05:00

It was a combination of several things:
1. The failure if the Iraqi government to be fair and inclusive.
2. The failure of Obama to properly monitor and follow through (Lost all that we have won).
3. The failure of Obama to act when Syria came apart.

Ignoring the REAL world is not leadership.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 5:53 PM

2015-01-31T17:53:21-05:00

The Obama administration and their foreign policy. The philosophy and ideology behind the the advice and the decisions made thus far haven't been working. This is no commitment to use the limited force effectively, it's been a token effort to satisfy their base and the media for their support. The sorties flown since the United States re-entered should be tripled per day. Their lack of support for the Kurds who have the only capable troops has been minimal at best and a useless at the worse.

Response by SPC Brian Alagna made Jan 31 at 2015 6:42 PM

2015-01-31T18:42:10-05:00

Last I checked, the Kurdish military I helped train was holding their own against ISIS in and around Kirkuk. The only aspect of the war that "failed" was the media.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-01-31T19:21:11-05:00

There was no WAR in the true sense of the word. Now stand fast , YES our men and woman - our Nations fighting men. Did engage in Combat , a strange form of controlled combat. Many a Marine & Solider were left hanging as word from some Commander in a far off CIA run control center picked his nose and ass. Until some dead beat connected to a SPY reporting back to Washington decided if the troops could defend the Platoon or not. Many times it depended on the source / drug supply lines / or other protected scumbag operating a 'Black-Market something or other. And that kind of operation was more important to the Powers that Be.
Only one former Marine / Sitting Congressman (Murtha) stated in public that the WAR was criminal. Due to his belief our men were setting the stage for what you see today and the looting of Afgan minerals which has already started. And that particular Congressman is no more. He died after under going a simple medical procedure. How strange.
But there is another former Marine Officer / Navy War College - Professor that also set the stage for the purge that in time will come. His name is Alan Zabroski , the man in the photo with me. Google him , the truth will set you free. I hope before it's to late.

Response by CPL Ernest Hoag made Jan 31 at 2015 8:07 PM

2015-01-31T20:07:53-05:00

How the hell do you make such inflammatory comments, with an "I'm not looking to start a debate" caveat. Chicken$hit way to start a discussion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-01-31T23:45:35-05:00

Mr. Greenzone failed. Not you.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Feb 1 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-02-01T10:05:33-05:00

The president. He was too worried about keeping a political promise and didn't do or work hard enough for American interests

Response by SPC Matthew Hart made Feb 1 at 2015 12:07 PM

2015-02-01T12:07:29-05:00

In all fairness I blame Obama... but then he's not a military man, he didn't get any real leadership training, he never served, the closest thing to a job he's had was as a constitutional law professor and apparently not a very good one, so military strategy is beyond his grasp and he knows nothing of combat.

Response by SP5 John Brandt made Feb 1 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-02-01T15:08:55-05:00

Kill them all, let Allah sort them out!

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Feb 2 at 2015 5:21 AM

2015-02-02T05:21:57-05:00

Bremer was highly criticized by military leaders at the time regarding firing the entire Iraqi Army. That created the insurgency as surely as anything else. Things were stabilized later and the battle became manageable. Pulling out gave up the high ground in the Global War on Terror and flushed all advances and gains down the pipe. We're still in Germany, Japan and Italy 70 years after defeating them in WWII. Those countries are among the most peaceful and prosperous on earth not in spite of US but because of US and the brilliance of General Marshall and the commitment made to the Marshall Plan. We need to return to Iraq and then STAY. We need a Middle East Marshall Plan and a commitment from our Middle East friends for their support of such a plan. If we don't lead, no one else will. Hooah!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 5:25 AM

2015-02-02T05:25:23-05:00

Iraq is essentially the vietnam of our time. All I can say is that this is what happens when politicians try to run a war...

Response by Sgt Mike Boland made Feb 2 at 2015 5:37 AM

2015-02-02T05:37:10-05:00

The current administra is completely and totally responisble for Iraq falling into the hands of the enemy. I lost brothers and left flesh in that desert and for the administration to completely pull out and turn a blind eye to the invasion clearly for political reasons and campaign promises is unacceptable.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 7:17 AM

2015-02-02T07:17:12-05:00

Iraq was always bound to be unstable given the minority but more powerful Sunnis conflict with the disenfranchised but majority Shias. Iraq was formed this way by the British to balance the Iranian influence but they didn't appreciate the issues it would cause. So my opinion is that Bremer strategy was ill informed and knee-jerk but the real responsibility lies with the British who organized the country.

Response by Cpl Ramon Lozano made Feb 2 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-02-02T07:47:09-05:00

What failure??? The war was a MASSIVE success! The war was WON in less than 3 months. That's as textbook as it gets!!! It is the 12 years of the following "PEACE" that have been a huge disaster! Peace is not the soldiers job......the war was!!

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Feb 2 at 2015 9:45 AM

2015-02-02T09:45:20-05:00

This is very similar to Vietnam discussions I remember when I was growing up.

We didn't really 'lose' in Iraq, so failure doesn't 100% apply. By the end of 2011 we were trying to get a new security agreement approved with Iraq. The Iraqi PM, in typical middle east fashion, kept haggling US diplomats. Very similar to how Hamid Karzai haggled the US right up till the last Afghan presidential elections. He would first make a move or gesture like he wanted us there, then take it back the next day, then go back to near agreement. This is how Middle Eastern people are, they love haggling and drawing out decisions because they want to see how much they can control you.

But in Iraq's case, I suspect the Iraqi PM didn't think the US was actually serious about the end of 2011 being a deadline. So, I'm sure he was shocked when the troops simply packed up and left their bases at the end of 2011. He absolutely thought he could haggle the US with trifling tactics, so when we left, it put him on the spot. He wanted to be free of the US, but liked our military support.

So, I don't really think the military had anything to do with it. This was a political decision really by a small circle of people next to Obama and the Iraqi Prime Minister. The average joes on both sides had nothing to say about it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:33 AM

2015-02-02T10:33:54-05:00

isis the Iwaqis and the Hakewi Indians.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2015 10:36 AM

2015-02-02T10:36:24-05:00

Do you include Apophis on that list?

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Feb 2 at 2015 10:34 PM

2015-02-02T22:34:37-05:00

Umm, the Iraqi's........?

Response by Sgt Mark Ramos made Feb 3 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-02-03T10:51:06-05:00

President Obama is responsible. We knew the faults and failures of the Iraqi government and military while there and when the decision to withdraw was made. You can not hand off a responsibility to a known irresponsible party and then blame them for the failure. Iraq was a broken society. We knew in the past that it took generation to develop an ally. Look at Japan, Germany, and Korea.

Response by Sgt Mark Ramos made Feb 3 at 2015 11:02 AM

2015-02-03T11:02:25-05:00

I know a lot of you here lived it and don't need to be reminded, or told what you experienced. But for people like me who had the good fortune of serving during more peaceful times. This documentary by PBS is excellent and seems well balanced: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/losing-iraq/

Losing Iraq – FRONTLINE

FRONTLINE examines the unfolding chaos in Iraq: What went wrong? How did we get here? And what happens now?

Response by Cpl Christopher Sturdevant made Feb 3 at 2015 6:02 PM

2015-02-03T18:02:04-05:00

I say our government. We did just what we did in Vietnam and suffering the same result. What I saw us do is provide so much support and money and equipment and supplies that we rendered them dependent upon our resources and troops. We tried teaching them, they didn't learn. We paid for all the damages done, all the goats that got blown up, etc... Once we ceased support and started removing ourselves its like a bird falling out of the nest but can't fly because it almost relied completely on its support system to provide. Once it was gone, they didn't know what to do. Kind of like the S Vietnamese during the Vietnamization stage.
I see the same thing happening in Afghanistan: We are training/trained them but based on my experience with them, they are completely unable to support themselves, incompetent and untrustworthy leadership, and once again have almost completely relied on US support to continue their mission. I do recall reading the news about the Afghani President wanting us to leave the country but wants us to continue to provide financial support. If you haven't figured it out in the 10 or so years we've been there, you aren't going to figure it out now.

Response by SPC John Decker made Feb 3 at 2015 6:55 PM

2015-02-03T18:55:17-05:00

How many years have the Iraqis been at war with someone? They just don't want to fight anymore.

Response by SFC Benjamin Varlese made Feb 3 at 2015 7:51 PM

2015-02-03T19:51:49-05:00

Regardless of American altruism, lack of understanding of 5000 years of Middle Eastern history and culture, our weak populace and politicians betraying and undermining the military at every turn, ultimately it all resides on the shoulders of the Iraqis. They are lazy, apathetic, corrupt, dishonest and cowardly and it is not only immersed in the framework of their culture but all of the above are actually encouraged. I worked as a LNO for several months training and going on missions with ISF and it literally was akin to herding cats. Even on patrol, ISF would leave weapons leaning against lampposts, stop to go grocery shopping or have chi, and look the wrong direction when 'pulling security', and that doesn't even include actual firefights or combat. The only ISF we had that were at all useful or adept were unsurprisingly all Kurdish Peshmergas.
We need to stay the heck out of there period, let the whole place burn then go in to sweep up the ashes. Iraq is not salvagable as long as Iraqis live there.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Feb 4 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-02-04T13:02:49-05:00

The only we who could and should be 'blamed' are the upper elechlon people that planned the war in the first place.

Neither the troops nor the Iraqis on the ground are primarily to blame for. And if post-US iraq can't live in peace, well just don't forget this is a choice they are walking, too. Who are we to decide right and wrong here.

Response by SPC Dennis Heaning made Feb 4 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-02-04T13:19:00-05:00

the french helped us defeat the brittish, we did, and did not run away ! the u.s. helped the iraqi people trained them, we left, they ran away. welcome ISIS !

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-02-04T13:28:39-05:00

In my opinion, we didn't fail. The war itself was flawed from the beginning. Success was never clear, and there was no clear end state, much like Vietnam. When we bombed Japan, did we wallow in it, trying to decide how to fix the damage? No. We had a mission. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the mission stopped being war as soon as we worried about the "hearts and minds". Stabilizing an entire region is a far more detailed mission, but not a war.

Response by SSgt David Walden made Feb 4 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-02-04T13:53:44-05:00

The painful answer is.... the American voters. We voted the incompetent leaders we have into power.... That is, assuming you believe voter fraud and ridged electronic voting machines had no impact.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-02-04T14:19:10-05:00

If they wanted to really make us happy they could start killing each other. That would put us in our place. lol

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-02-05T14:18:48-05:00

Military Historian Peter Hart Faults British leadership for "a lack of realistic goals, no coherent plan, the use of experienced troops...negligible artillery support, totally inadequate logistical and medical arrangements and a gross underestimation of the enemy." This was the Battle of Gallipoli which began April 1915 and costed nearly half a million men killed, wounded, and missing in action.
A lack of realistic goals, no coherent plan, and a gross underestimation of the enemy and who is to blame for the failure of Iraq? Let me ask these question's. Who or what was responsible for setting unrealistic battle goals, who or what was responsible for a gray coherent battle plan, and who was responsible in underestimation of the enemy. And what was the atmosphere in our nation when all these mistakes were being put in military action that has and is costing lives many years later. Who, indeed is responsible. You may already know the answer to the question.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Feb 6 at 2015 12:42 AM

2015-02-06T00:42:57-05:00

Condoleezza Rice. Former Sec State. From Jan 20, 2001 until Jan 26, 2005 she was the National Security Advisor who served as the chief advisor to the President of the United States on national security issues, which is what Iraq was. This is the same Rice who wrote the following: “The president must remember that the military is a special instrument. It is lethal, and it is meant to be. It is not a civilian police force. It is not a political referee. And it is most certainly not designed to build a civilian society.” - Condoleezza Rice, then a Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution writing for Foreign Affairs Magazine, January-February 2000 issue.

She was beating up then President Clinton over Somalia so she knew full well the futility of what she proposed in Iraq. We went in and the military did it's assigned task and then the US Dept of State sent in Bremer as the Caliphate. There was no planning or consideration of Iraqi wants or desires for an end state. I was in Baghdad in 2006 as an advisor to the General Counsel of the Iraqi Armed Forces and nobody ever asked the Iraqis a damn thing. GEN Martin Dempsey just pushed the State agenda --you will become a democracy and worked on standing up 18 Brigades. I'd blame Dempsey for insisting on US Doctrine when the Iraqis understood British doctrine. I'd blame war profiteers who just sent crap that seemed to somehow satisfy our quality requirements. The entire operation was just too big and too unfocused. There is plenty of blame to go around and the only person who ever accepted any blame was poor old Jay Garner, the head of the briefly alive ORHA the original agency commissioned to oversee the reconstruction. There have been two great reconstruction efforts in recent times. The first was after the US Civil War and the other was the Marshall Plan. Iraq was much closer to being like the former.

Response by CPL David Monsma made Feb 12 at 2015 2:40 AM

2015-02-12T02:40:29-05:00

Those who served there never failed. The "deciders" who sent them there in the first place did! First being misguided and untruthful about why troops should be sent there in the first place. The Bush administration was all about shooting first and asking real questions later. They rode the wave of the then fresh post 9/11 fear and reactionary angst to sucker the public and congress into supporting a fight against the wrong target. Saddam wasn't good news, but to chant 9/11 as a reason to go into Iraq left me feeling like we were barking up the wrong tree to begin with. WMDs were also another weak excuse. Not only did we find they didn't exist, Bush decided to charge in before the coalition UN finished searching, like he didn't even really care if they were there. That's by no means a way to send people into harms way!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 2:47 AM

2015-02-12T02:47:01-05:00

I think whomever came up with the grand idea to tell the media we have an exit plan...so probably both are to blame. There can be no exit plan if we want ensured success.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 10:21 AM

2015-02-12T10:21:41-05:00

I was never in Iraq, my career took me to Egypt instead, however I have studied the situation extensively during my Graduate studies and written various papers on it. Further, I have had long discussions with my own peers who were on our battalions two tours there:

There are several reasons why Iraq failed after we left, some were senior leadership decisions, others were beyond the control of any American or coalition partner;

1) Decision to disband Iraqi Army, (De-Ba'athification) -- This essentially exiled the experienced Iraqi leadership from the new government in 2003, when we needed them most. (Bremer mainly, but Bush also contributed to this) This would force them to turn to the Fedayeen and later AQI

2) Abject failure to understand the inter-and intra-ethnic dynamics of Iraq, Intel should have been watching this but they were too concerned drinking the "All Iraqis want Democracy" Kool-Aid.

3) Attempts by senior commanders to use traditional maneuver tactics against an insurgency in utter defiance of everything we (should have) learned from Vietnam, the French experiences in Indochina and Algeria and the British experiences in Sudan, Oman, Palestine, Malaysia and more

4) Insisting on a democratic government in a country that has no history of democracy. Democracy historically evolves from a more authoritarian level of government after economic development is established. Even the American colonies had a developed export based economy and a monarchial government before the American Revolution. This doesn't necessarily mean a dictatorship nor communism, South Korea began with a right-wing military junta, no it is a vibrant world class economy governed by an elected federal system.

5) Foolish insistence that Iraq remain a united country composed of three disparate ethnic groups, that hate each other, just because when the French and British drew the current borders of the Middle East in 1918 with the Sykes-Picot Agreement that was how they wanted it. It would be better to split into three states, one for each of the Kurds, Shi'ites and Sunnis and maintain separate relations with all three.

6) This is actually the biggest one; Rampant corruption and laziness at all levels of the Iraqi government, military and civilian sectors. Enough said.

Response by Sgt Jason West made Feb 12 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-02-12T13:53:29-05:00

I disagree with your premise that we failed.

The only thing we failed at was pulling out too soon and not giving the government a chance to really get things under control. Same thing the Russians did in Afghanistan and we are doing all over again. It's a cycle we have been repeating for over 70 years now. Knock down a government/leader and then leave. The power vaccuum creates these groups (Taliban/ISIS type groups. Heck look at Iran. We set up the government there and basically started a lot of this crap by helping overhtrow their government in the 50's. If you don't go in and really rebuild (Japan/Germany after WW2, South Korea) then you are basically asking for some numbskulls to go in a royally F things up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2015 10:08 AM

2015-02-14T10:08:01-05:00

Everyone involved from the Lowest Soldier to the highest governments. It took one of my students when I was teaching WLC to really open my eyes to it. A student said he was in the first push into Iraq and every one laughed at hearts and minds. So piss bottles, shitty treat meant to the civilian population, pork MREs etc given out... then in 2013 he was heading back. The same kids everyone made fun of, threatened, or did anything wrong now was of age to shoot back.

If the tables were turned and some Russian Soldiers made your dad crawl through their piss to get muddy, what we/you do? Kill as many as possible that's what.

Now it isn't all the Soldiers fault, we could and should have been more Professional, not like the British occupy a patriots house during the Revolutionary war. Our leadership, the thing that also took many Soldiers lives is the ability to not care about Right Seat Rides. Oh this unit was guard, oh this unit was mech, oh this unit... and with in a week that company, battalion or BDE lost Soldiers right off the bat.

The unit who replaced us only wanted one ride with us and then to take over operations and be hardcore (I was even active duty then) and found a friendly MP check point and started shooting at them. The MP point thought it was enemy and engaged. In that failure they lost 2 guys. This is a straight failure on the chain of command.

Third, our government for thinking the Iraqi government could advance quickly. These people live as if it was 1 AD, sure some had basic amenities but they are a tribal people. The whole planning phase was if we took over a 1st world country.

Fourth, government contracts. SO much money was spent on what? Really, we broke the bank and kept going for stock brokers and CEOs to get rich.....

This war wasn't one with clear mission, commanders intent, nor the ability to execute.

Response by PFC Jason Weaver made Feb 14 at 2015 10:58 AM

2015-02-14T10:58:45-05:00

The Iraq goverment, they ran and gave up ground.. Ground that we fought so hard to get they just gave it up, with out a fight...billions of dollars to train a army who runs???

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 14 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-02-14T11:28:41-05:00

You'd have to go back to Desert Storm and then you may as well go back to 1968 when Kuwait was still part of Iraq and look at that mess when it became its own country. What's the point of the Arab League? Or UN if they could not prevent the degradation we're seeing now? I think Iraq failed because Syria became a Disney Land destination for jihadists thanks to Al-Assads human rights violations and war crimes. It's regional but we new this going into desert shield and long before. Maybe the interim government should have started re building infrastructure and providing sanitation? The citizens are living amongst the rubble and garbage but they have wireless internet? "Let them have Twitter". When people live like animals they behave as such. Anyway...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2015 3:14 PM

2015-02-24T15:14:30-05:00

I believe that our commanders did a job that is incredibly difficult, and I applaud them all. When we realize that the western mind (ours) finds it baffling to even consider how the middle eastern mind functions, that may temper how critical we may be towards our commanders for the job they did. After all, we avoid death and injury (for obvious reasons). And we love our families. They run TO death and injury. How do we mentally process such a mind? They cannot love their families the same way we do. God help me if I ever strap bombs to my wife or children for any reason at all. EVER.

I just saw yesterday on the news that ISIS has training camps for young boys age 8-12 (or so). Full camouflage. Bandana headwrap with (Arabic?) writing on it. And hate on their faces. We may be able to eliminate the men in charge now, but the next generation is already in place. Even though they are minors right now, they have already been taught to hate. When they are grown and can act on that hate, with a gun in their hands.... *shudders*

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 2:46 PM

2015-02-25T14:46:43-05:00

We didn't fail in Iraq. The Iraqi's failed, not the United States. We failed to keep an eye on a country we liberated, in that we should have kept a monitoring force but Obama was too interested in claiming bragging rights. He wanted the money from the war to offset Obamacare. Makes you wonder since we are back in Iraq and spending money, where is he getting the money for Obamacare?

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Mar 11 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-03-11T15:13:37-04:00

Politicians. Military folks know how to win wars. Politicians know nothing about either winning wars, or winning peace. They are truly just here for the money.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 25 at 2015 11:58 PM

2015-03-25T23:58:40-04:00

We left the GOI with the best chance of success that we could provide. They had to/have to want it more than than we do. Our desires and dreams can't fix their lack of desire. Unfortunately, many times our war aims are different, or at odds, with what the nation we are supporting really wants.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Apr 1 at 2015 1:37 PM

2015-04-01T13:37:43-04:00

If the people who say the U.S. military failed in Iraq, were around in 1941---we'd be speaking Japanese right now. The U.S. military has never failed in any mission they've ever been given----The Washington lawyers are the ones that screw up things--- by making decisions and introducing policies' that favor their political agendas first---at the expense of the peoples we liberate.---- In my humble opinion the news services are no better and seem to promote this type of behavior ----Regrettably, the days of Walter Cronkite and Edward R Murrow are long gone.

Response by BG David Fleming III made Apr 1 at 2015 3:32 PM

2015-04-01T15:32:47-04:00

Religious intolerance on multiple sides. Extremist!

Response by SFC Stephen King made Apr 24 at 2015 7:32 PM

2015-04-24T19:32:12-04:00

The failure or on going war was a result of a combination of things. If a status of forces agreement had been able to reached a different outcome would also be in reach. The campaign promises of ending the war in Iraq. Lastly, the first 100 day War when we stormed to Baghdad imagine if we had taken the city in the late 90's.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 25 at 2015 10:31 AM

2015-04-25T10:31:57-04:00

It is reasonable to make the argument that much of the strategy was -- and continues to be -- flawed. Yes, the Iraqi Government has big problems and has certainly not helped -- but if we were basing our strategy on the Iraqi Government being a well-oiled machine, then whose fault is that...theirs or ours? Not saying war strategy is easy, and not saying that hindsight equals wisdom. I'm just making the point.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 30 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-04-30T21:24:27-04:00

the president was advised of the danger of invasion but chose to go foeward. That aside, the reality that we liberated a people that did not want to be liberated. The failure to understand that that the various factions that make up the country were never going to come together.
That said, we were highly successful in attacking, seizing , and occuping - you know military stuff, we were quite successful. In short,our failure was in our inabilty to find anyone in iraq that was willing to die, or live for their country

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 30 at 2015 9:27 PM

2015-04-30T21:27:31-04:00

Batak Obama, Democrats, Liberal isolationist, Iraqis

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made May 1 at 2015 8:42 AM

2015-05-01T08:42:27-04:00

There are several if not many publications, manuscripts, literature reviews et al...I find this publication interesting...."The Iraq study group report" is an authorized edition for "The Way Forward - A new Approach" 2006, by Baker, James A III, Hamilton, Lee H...with Eagleburger, Lawrence s., Joran Vernon E., Meese, Edwin III., O'Conner, Sandra Day, Panetta, Leon E, Perry, William J., Robb, Charles S. and Simpson, Alan K...Vintage Books, NY. United States Institute of Peace website http://www.usip.org

Based on this book, 142 pages...it does have merit and much credibility as a reactive posture identiying problems and recommendations for the US and partners, however, the book lacked a shared vision approach. Scope creep could have been a factor overall in Iraq...in my opinion.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made May 1 at 2015 9:02 AM

2015-05-01T09:02:49-04:00

A good website for AAR Iraq and beyond....http://www.usip.org

United States Institute of Peace

The United States Institute of Peace (USIP) was established by Congress in 1984 as an independent, federally-funded national security institution devoted to the nonviolent prevention and mitigation of deadly conflict abroad.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 7:16 PM

2015-05-25T19:16:01-04:00

Public forums aren't the right places for Service Members to debate these concerns.

Response by SSG James Arlington made May 28 at 2015 3:20 PM

2015-05-28T15:20:57-04:00

No one individual is to blame. There are many factors, many beyond our control, as to cause. Ultimately, we cannot fight their battles for them.

Response by PO3 Johnny Osborn made May 28 at 2015 3:23 PM

2015-05-28T15:23:53-04:00

Iraq is responsible. It's their country, if the people are not willing to fight for their freedom, then there is no point in spilling our blood to fight their war.

Response by SGT Rob Debord made May 29 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-05-29T13:07:03-04:00

Obama I think only those who have served should hold position to control the outcomes of the sacrifices of those serving. Wars and liberation are not politics it is real life for those affected by your decision. We have let the Iraq people down twice now. They have suffered enough he'll we went to Afghanistan first and we are still there training but we can't even put spotters on the ground in Iraq. Shame on the Obama administration and all those that allow his tyranny to reign over our military leaders. Sad Sad Sad.

Response by SP5 John Brandt made Jun 4 at 2015 9:18 PM

2015-06-04T21:18:04-04:00

Obama blew them off as nothing, now, are you blind, it is inevitable that many many more of our brave young soldiers are going to die in that shithole!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-06-05T17:19:31-04:00

What do you mean by "Our Failure?"

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-06-07T11:55:15-04:00

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, "Not trying to start a debate ..."

Sorry, sir, but you are trying to start a debate, or at least win one that you fashioned. From your post, "failure", "screwing OIF up", "blame falls with", "obvious", "mishandled" ...

Which doesn't mean I don't think there were failures, blame, and mishandling aplenty.

1) Failure to recognize the extent to which we allowed Iraqi politicians to play politics and line their pockets with money rather than get on with the job of building a stable country. (Applies to Afghan politicians as well.)
2) Failure to capitalize on what we have in common, rather than emphasizing our differences. (Specifically I'm referring to allowing our enemies to set the debate about religion without any reasonable response.)
3) Failure to set a policy covering collateral damage. The opposition has continued the policy of using and causing civilian casualties and blaming us for it. We need to drop a billion leaflets on Iraq and Afghanistan (with collateral coverage of Iran) showing the following:

Here is a terrorist. He kills people.
Here is a US bomb dropping on the terrorist's head.
If you stand next to a terrorist, especially one riding in a captured US vehicle, you may die when we drop a bomb on his head.
If you choose to stand so, your death is YOUR fault, not ours. We do not want to kill anyone, not even terrorists, but if we need to stop him, we aren't going to let you being in the way stop us.
We do not want your family to mourn you loss, so when you see a terrorist, move away from him as quickly as possible.

4) Failure to prosecute, seize, confiscate, or whatever, the illegally gained money of those who were paid for projects but did not deliver them.
5) Failure to support those who aided us, whether by money, security, or immigration. Every time we cut the legs off from someone who supported us, we make it that much harder to gain support next time.

And who do I assign the lion's share of this blame to? The American people and the two-party system of government we are saddled with. (We need a viable third party so we can avoid the intentional gridlock between the two major parties.) We cannot manage to get politicians with limited to no military knowledge out of military operations. We cannot seem to remember that no politician will support any policy that might keep him from getting re-elected. So we vacillate, double-talk, countermand, meddle, interfere, and make poor long-term decisions.

Response by SGT Michael DeLaGarza made Jun 7 at 2015 12:19 PM

2015-06-07T12:19:35-04:00

All of the above...and do not forget Congress and everyone in Politics... It was about the defense industry.

Response by SP5 John Brandt made Jun 12 at 2015 7:23 PM

2015-06-12T19:23:56-04:00

Our illustrious president Barack Hussian Obama bin Ladin blew them off a year ago! Did he know something than that we didn't? He's a lame dick president so he doesn't have to worry about re-election, he has a middle eastern name, AND HE IS A TRADER!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2015 11:31 PM

2015-07-09T23:31:15-04:00

Everything we have accomplished, all of the lives lost in Iraq, are now equal to nothing if our leadership does not take a firm stand and destroy this bitter enemy

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Jul 10 at 2015 12:19 AM

2015-07-10T00:19:26-04:00

I was in Iraq #1. Without over analysis, what has Iraq itself done to govern itself? It has broken up into factions with warlords,, tribal battles, nothing resembling a centralized government and the expecation of those in government that they WILL get bribes and kickbacks from the locals etc.

T.E. Lawrence: So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are. Lawrence of Arabia

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-08-19T22:02:55-04:00

We did not fail in Iraq. The Iraqi forces failed themselves and the Iraqi government failed it's people.

Response by SSG Ralph Watkins made Aug 20 at 2015 6:09 PM

2015-08-20T18:09:54-04:00

Sadaam & his sons had to go. Part of the planning stage for Iraq our biggest fear was Iran invading & taking over. We never foresaw ISIS or that type of group as the threat. We could easily blame Bush & Cheney but other sources fueled the intelligence that made them think about the WMDs being there. Ahmed Chalabi was considered the Iraqi govt in exile in London & his family members fed us plenty of false human intelligence. When I got to Iraq, we heard plenty of buzz that Chalabi set all of this up. He is a mobster & used a bigger mobster (the US military) to get rid of his competition (Sadaam). When Al Qaeda in Iraq first appeared in Fallujah in 2004, we were seeing Iraqi (nationalists) insurgents fighting the religious whackos. Fast forward a number of years. When Obama decided to pull our troops out, Iraq was pretty stable. The PM of Iraq said it was time for us to pull out. Granted, Obama didn't ask about a status of forces agreement but we all know he sucks at foreign affairs. Every person has their weaknesses. We pulled out. Things were fine. Iraq had a standing Army large enough & trained well enough to fight ISIS. We succeeded with our mission in Iraq. That chapter is over. What caused this fiasco? Iraqi govt corruption & a cowardly military. It's harsh but it's right. A few hundred ISIS fighter show up & tell thousands of Iraq troops who are dug in to drop their weapons & surrender & they do, that's sheer cowardice. The Iraqi will keep losing until they grow a pair to fight on their own. The Iraqis have failed. We can't hold their hands forever.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 1:02 PM

2015-08-27T13:02:05-04:00

WTF?? We're seeing it as down 3-2 in the bottom of the third.
Granted this is kinda embarrassing because we knew how to do this, but sometimes you start the wrong pitcher. What can ya do?

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-08-27T13:10:12-04:00

I'm sure given enough time, imagination, ignoring certain facts and exaggerating some meaningless conversation like this administration, I could walk this back and blame FDR and maybe even blame President Lincoln. That being said the withdrawal of all our forces under this administration just to have some political bragging Rights for a re-election campaign, I have to say it's Obama fault. Having troops would mean having advanced intelligence. It's like the cop on the beat, he/she hears things on the street

Response by SPC Scott Grother made Aug 27 at 2015 1:13 PM

2015-08-27T13:13:34-04:00

I think there is a lot of blame to go around. When Powell was making statements like "if you break it, you buy it" there were administration officials with no combat experience saying Vietnam made him weak. Rumsfeld said "you go to war with the Army you have and not the Army you want" and just wanted to show how "shock and awe" was the new way to fight wars. We had no plan beyond "mission accomplished" other than collecting the roses and money the newly freed Iraqis threw at us. And like in many other places we put people in power who weren't the best option for their country but were most likely to follow our lead. We tend to try and prop up governments doomed to eventually fail to get our way. We did it with Saddam, Iran, Vietnam,...

I think the overall problem in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam is that they are a lot more patient than we are. Vietnam had been fighting with France and knew they we would quit eventually. They knew the same when we entered. Same in Iraq and Afghanistan. They play the long game and we go all in on the first hand. Actually we don't even go all in anymore because we fight wars politically. When we were bombing Germany we were doing what we had to do to win. Same with using atomic bombs on Japan. The options we gave were surrender or be annihilated and not please don't make us shoot you. You go to war to crush the enemies will to fight and not just for the time period of war, but forever.

I think in the Muslim countries, Somalia showed that there was a level of loss beyond which we will no longer support the mission. And pulling out reinforced for many that we had weak stomachs at home. We also add in that most of the countries have borders defined by western governments not base on anything other than what benefited their own interests (resources) at that time and many decision makers have no understanding of other cultures.

I think now I am just rambling :-)

Response by MAJ Michael Bressler made Aug 27 at 2015 9:37 PM

2015-08-27T21:37:09-04:00

The President is responsible for everything America does or fails to do... Leadership 101

Response by SSG William Patton made Sep 3 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-09-03T13:00:44-04:00

I think W made a mistake when he ordered the invasion of Iraq. His reasons have since been vindicated as WMDs have been found. After all, we knew they were there because we sold them to Saddam. W's daddy made a wise decision by not invading when Kuwait was liberated. He clipped Saddam's wings, but did not destroy the balance of power in the region. Taking down Saddam gave Iran a free reign to conduct their terror. The current situation however, is the fault of obama. Pulling out all troops opened the door for ISIS and the subsequent slaughter of thousands of Christians. Our government never learns. Some countries do not thrive under democracy and Iraq is one of those countries.

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Sep 4 at 2015 7:04 AM

2015-09-04T07:04:31-04:00

We won the war and lost the peace. When DOD turned the country over to the State Department it was over. They stood down the Iraqi army and dumped the leadership. They called it de basification. Like purging Germany after WW2 of all Nazis. Now a lot of ISSI leaders are x-Iraqi officers including some generals.

Response by Sgt Mike Boland made Sep 10 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-09-10T15:15:28-04:00

What makes you think we failed in Iraq? We did not fail in Iraq! The administration failed to listen to the advice of the outgoing administration and did not leave a contingency force. The Obama administration failed in Iraq after our military victory. The president allowed politics and his personal feelings to outweigh good judgment, therefore, created a vacuum in the region that was filled by al Kaida and insurgents from Iran.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 8:28 PM

2015-09-17T20:28:59-04:00

Scooter Libby.

Response by SSG Jason Penn made Sep 22 at 2015 11:12 AM

2015-09-22T11:12:43-04:00

Depends on what you mean by failure, there were lots of failures in regards to Iraq. There are too many to point out, but I'll list a few for you. 1) stand up and arming of Insurgent groups - the push (race) for Baghdad meant that we bypassed and left numerous weapon caches unguarded which insurgent groups later used to arm themselves - Rumsfeld's fault. 2) growing numbers of insurgent groups (such as the 1920s Revolutionary Brigade) which happened due to our elimination of jobs (primarily military and primarily Bath Party members) which only served to piss people off and drive them into the open arms of insurgent groups - Again Rumsfeld's fault. 3) Failure to listen to reason - Rumsfeld asked GEN Shinseki what was need on the ground, the response was 150,000 more troops. After a series of head-buttings, Rumsfeld took that as the last straw and demanded that Shinseki Retire or he would be fired. After Shinseki retired, no one would step up to the position, so Rumsfeld called upon GEN Schoomaker to come out of retirement to take the position. Schoomaker's first act was to ask for 150,000 more troops in Iraq. Again Rumsfeld's fault for not listening to experience. (Each of those three are definitely directly Rumsfeld's fault, but since W stood by him, and as Commander in Chief, Bush was ultimately responsible.) 4) Failure to withdraw without a secure area - premature withdraw from Iraq without ensuring that Iraqi forces could maintain security opened up a vaccum that allowed ISIS to take root and capture vast areas of Iraq. This one has the blame completely resting on Obama's shoulders.

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Jan 17 at 2016 8:29 AM

2016-01-17T08:29:19-05:00

It's a multi-level failure. To blame it on one would be senseless. I think it boils down to what was the bane of the Vietnam War - the politician, not the eyes on the ground, decide what should be done. We throw in the 24 hour news agencies who analyze everything at their specified biases - the general public does not know what the unfettered truth is.

The govnernment itself uses its DIME - Diplomacy, Intelligence, Military, and Economics to try to work with other governments, both big and small, friend or foe. It's those high-level decisions which determine what our military is doing for the next 10 years...

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2016 11:38 AM

2016-01-21T11:38:48-05:00

well, it seems we won, we had it stabilized. That would be called a success even by stupid people. There was a failure to keep it stabilized by completely pulling out too soon. Obama was wrong, he admitted it when he decided NOT to completely pull out of Afghanistan. That is the BEST statement of a mistake a person could ever make. If he thought he was right in Iraq, he would have done the same thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2016 1:46 PM

2016-01-22T13:46:34-05:00

Current POTUS. For him it was the "bad" war, now he is sending us there again.

Response by CH (MAJ) Jack E. D. made Mar 11 at 2016 9:46 PM

2016-03-11T21:46:46-05:00

BHO owns the fall of Iraq! Senior Military Leaders warned him to leave a Force In Place . . . 10-15K soldiers. Champaign Promises won out and he had EVERYONE withdraw . . . the resulting power vacuum sucked in ISIS!
No more complicated than that . . . Leave it to a Liberal Democrat to "suck Victory into the jaws of Defeat"!
What of the countless deaths of US Service members? Was it all for naught . . . seems so, BHO! PS: GWB had NOTHING to do with this, O!