Who is responsible for the Iraqi Forces and their lack of training??

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:13:46 -0400

Where does the fault lie after the President of these United States acknowledges that there is absolutely NO strategy for training the Iraqi Forces??

Do you think that pulling out too quickly has made the Iraqi's feel betrayed?
Is that why their morale is suffering?

You do realize that the POTUS took our forces out, just to send 3000 back in? Having said that, do you think the President will ever acknowledge the fact that pulling all our forces out was probably NOT the smartest thing to do?!

The POTUS would like the Sunni's to get more involved. How can they be involved when they feel that there is a lack of training and weapons in order to defeat ISIS/ISIL? "Guarantees create Confidence, and we need Confidence."

Are our Basic Combat Skills enough in order to defeat ISIS/ISIL?? I know when the USA military puts it all together, it is. And we kick A$$, but is this kind of strategy and training enough for the barbaric actions ISIS/ISIL take?

Again, I believe that President Obama's strategy (and the lack there of) is what created ISIS/ISIL. I believe that collectively, it is both his and the Iraqi Governments fault.

You can believe whatever it is you want. There are many questions within this question and no where does it state that BO is 100% Responsible. What I do state is my opinion. If it were Bush's fault, you would state it too. Getting tired of you RP bullies. I will say, you make yourselves look like complete idiots.

Anyways, what is your OPINION????

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/f93da7336ad04967a30b4cb53247e091/obama-huddles-over-mideast-problems-summit-sidelines

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2015 5:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:20:31 -0400

We need to stop trying to turn foreign armies into clones of the U.S. military. These countries don't have the budgets, manpower, or will power to fight like we do, so our strategy should be to build a force that works for them,

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2015 5:21 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:21:33 -0400

I think the majority of blame lies w/ the Iraqis, but were our instructors limited in what they could teach? Stubbornness in one's students does not allow for a subject to be absorbed.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jun 8 at 2015 5:25 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:25:08 -0400

I'm going to put this one on Messers Sykes and Picot, and anyone in a leadership position who doesn't know those names.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 8 at 2015 6:02 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:02:27 -0400

Here is a serious question for people.

How long does it take to build an effective Army? How many years? How many decades? How many generations?

We forget that we have an Officer & NCO Corps that includes INDIVIDUAL experience in excess of 30 years. We have institutional knowledge that goes back more than two centuries. And we steal from much older empires than ours.

"Modern" Iraq has existed for how long? A dozen years. We can barely "build" good Field Grades & Mid-Grade NCOs in that amount of time. How are we going to help build Generals & Senior Enlisted Advisers?

As for who is responsible. We break it, we bought it. We went in there, and tore down what was a "functioning government" (and by functioning, I mean like functioning alcoholic). I know this is not a popular opinion, but choices have consequences, and we made the choice to go in. We made the choice to elect officials who made that call. We bear that responsibility. Just because we don't like it 15 years later doesn't undo that decision.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 8 at 2015 6:25 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:25:53 -0400

Look up SOFA. Easy to blame POTUS but the Iraqis didn't want us there and that provided a ready made excuse for the POTUS to pull us out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2015 6:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:34:18 -0400

If we stayed in Iraq all that would accomplish is a common target to attack US troops and coalition forces, Iraq is a complex country with a complex history and big sectarian divide which will not be bridged any time soon, if we did not de Baathify Iraq we would not have these problem, current IS daesh is pretty much ex baath members. In a short summery there is no easy answer

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2015 6:59 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 18:59:19 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I would argue that the Iraqis are responsible for their forces and lack of training. One of the biggest issues we dealt with was personal ownership of the problem and the desire to get better. They have to be responsible for training and their forces. It is not any one President of policy or strategy, it is, in my opinion, something that needs to be addressed inward and not outward.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 1:32 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:32:23 -0400

Iraq is a sovereign nation. What they accept from us and allow us to do with their army is their own decision. The outcome and fault lies squarely in their laps.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 9 at 2015 2:16 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:16:24 -0400

Government, generals, officers, NCOs, soldiers. It is a teamwork of failure.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 4:38 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:38:50 -0400

Honestly I think a lot of it is on the Iraqi people/leadership. If they truly believed in running their own show I think they would have put more emphasis on it. It needs to be a united effort from Iraq's diverse cultures to secure themselves. They cannot forever rely on an outside power to keep away aggressors and people who do not want that way of life or want all the control. Sure we could have stayed longer and spent more money and potentially more lives there. The hard question is at what point does the state need to take complete responsibility for itself? I'm not sure anyone has or had that answer.

To compare modern Iraq to us is apples to oranges. Yes we have had years to develop our force structures, however when we revolted against the monarchy we only had the weaponry we could obtain or already had, and went up against a well sorted out military force. The win ultimately came from the will to be free and lead ourselves. Maybe that is what is lacking in this situation?

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Jun 9 at 2015 4:40 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 16:40:40 -0400

its really the Iraqi's fault. They never seemed to really get their act together or have any good discipline. Mind you I'm saying that from what I observe on the news. I realize that could be totally off base vs the opinion of someone who was actually there.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jun 9 at 2015 5:04 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 17:04:42 -0400

Just a recommendation here....you will probably get a much more reasoned and enlightened dialogue on future questions if you dial back your huge dose of "It's all Obama's fault".

Response by SSG James Arlington made Jun 9 at 2015 5:40 PM

SSG James Arlington — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 17:40:23 -0400

Interesting what Donald Rumsfeld just said about democracy in Iraq and nation-building, something many conservatives, including George W. criticized Clinton for in Bosnia etc. Given that, unfortunately, much of that region (Middle East) only understands "strongmen." This is not one person's fault, but collective failure. If we had stayed, without the protections for our troops that we demanded, we would only have been viewed as occupiers.

Response by CPL Eric Allen made Jun 9 at 2015 6:06 PM

CPL Eric Allen — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 18:06:04 -0400

Hey we pull out all the time what's the difference between afghan and Iraq none they will both be in the same place they need a strong voice to lead there people or they will end up like cockroaches squashed and and bloody

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jun 10 at 2015 10:07 AM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:07:41 -0400

Armys are NCOs
We pretty much gutted the NCO culture out of Iraq.
They all carry ISIS cards now.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Jun 10 at 2015 10:13 AM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:13:41 -0400

From what I've read (generally the veterans or current service members), the Iraqi army lacks the will to fight. If these guys aren't motivated to protect their families or country, what's the point of a military force? ISIS took advantage of this weakness. We can cite that the President was too quick in pulling out troops. However, the United States cannot fight everyone's battles and at what point does our presence begin to blur the lines between liberators and occupiers. Essentially, the people of Iraq (and Afghanistan) need to take care of themselves.

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 10 at 2015 12:59 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 12:59:57 -0400

The main reason for all of the problems we see now is the Status of Forces Agreement. The SOFA was rejected by Ali al-Sistani and he would only accept a memorandum of understanding in lieu of a SOFA only if it detailed specific dates for a complete withdrawal of foreign troops. Late 2008 rolls around and Iraq and US sign a deal. The United States completed its final withdrawal of troops from Iraq on December 16, 2011.

Following the military breakdowns, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had to ask for the help of the United States. However the Kurds warned Maliki about the ISIS attack on Kirkuk, and offered to help in addressing ISIS in Mosul - he refused. The peshmerga troops were subsequently ordered to advance to the city and protect it.

So I would say a good part of this crisis falls on the Iraqi leadership and their hardheadedness in asking for help and their lack of internal cooperation to get things done. Not to mention other issues like the Naqshbandi Army led by former Iraqi Vice President Izzat al-Duri who was mucking about in Mosul the same time ISIS was looking to take it.

Iraq's fate is in the hands of Iraqis - The will or desire to fight is a non-cognitive skill - it can't be trained into people regardless of the approach by POTUS.

Response by WO1 Ricardo Eva made Dec 17 at 2020 7:47 PM

WO1 Ricardo Eva — Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:47:33 -0500

Although I agree with you and as a former "member" I never thought it a great idea for us to be involved in Iraq...actually, if you go back in history, even the Russians advised us against going. Regardless, now we are in and are responsible for not only stabilizing but insuring that ISIS/ISIL is no longer capable of raising havoc any longer. How, pray tell, can we do that specially whenever we either arrest, or further measure, a number of them, they DO multiply a 100 fold? How do you recognize the "kid" and differentiate the kid from the actual terrorist? We are professionals, and those in the field have, often times at a very high cost, learned to recognize real threats and, I believe, it is a profound disservice to ALL OF US that POTUS has taken a seemingly unthought decision to pull us out just like that!