Who is truly moral?

2014-04-08T15:45:32-04:00

What do you observe from those around you? Specifically, as it pertains to others being of strong moral character (positive connotation). Do you see many "stand up" Armed Forces Service Members / DoD Civilians, or very few? What do you base your assessment on?

I understand this is very subjective. Please just respond how you feel. This is the second question of five that pertains to a study I am conducting. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 8 at 2014 3:49 PM

2014-04-08T15:49:53-04:00

I have seen some highly moral, stand-up Soldiers who do the right thing no matter the cost or consequences. Standing up to seniors who give unlawful orders is a quality I find to be moral. Doing what's right for your Soldiers even when it makes you look bad. That's the type of leader I want working for me or above me.

Concerning the opposite sinde of the question, I have always found immoral behavior by Soldiers to involve ridiculing the enemy (Making fun of the fact that they were maimed by a missile and are crawling out of the impact area). That sickens me. I don't feel comfortable around people who celebrate death like that. Yes, we took an enemy combatant off of the battlefield but should we revel in the pain and torture of another human being? I think not.

Most Soldiers don't seem to express this sort of immoral behavior and I have seen others who say something about it.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 8 at 2014 3:55 PM

2014-04-08T15:55:55-04:00

well as you know there are no theives in the Army, only people trying to get there stuff back. On a occassion I was with buddy and we where doing laundry during annual training. His laundry bag was mistakenly took by someone else. When we where done he was going to take someone elses. I was like really that just happened to you and now you are going to do it. First off we are better than that. second we are MP's and thrid it's just wrong! So after a little discussion he put it back. I had a extra one and gave it to him.

I was rasied if isn't yours DON'T TOUCH IT! nough said.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Apr 8 at 2014 4:13 PM

2014-04-08T16:13:57-04:00

The problem I have found is "Define your morality." Is it the result, the action, or the intent that makes an action wrong? Are you a "for the greater good" kind of guy or individual liberties and rights?<div><br></div><div>To me, immorality is defined by those that are willing to throw both the greater good and the individual liberties of others away for their personal gain. If you have a definitive justification why you, as a leader, should sacrifice another so that you can live i.e. test the all clear (I mean that's what you are supposed to do right? sacrifice the least mission essential team member for the greater good), cool. But if you are willing to throw another under the bus for no other reason than you don't want to take responsibility for your bad choices, may there be a special place in hell for you.</div>

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 8 at 2014 6:23 PM

2014-04-08T18:23:05-04:00

When I think of Morals I think of Individuals and Actions. Like Major General Smedley Butler.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 8 at 2014 6:27 PM

2014-04-08T18:27:52-04:00

When I think of Morals I also think of Hugh Clowers Thompson (April 15, 1943 – January 6, 2006) was a United States Army helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is best known for his role in stopping the My Lai Massacre, in which a group of US Army soldiers tortured and killed several hundred unarmed Vietnamese civilians, mutilating their bodies after they had been murdered. Although initially ill-treated in some quarters for their intervention, Thompson and his crew, Glenn Andreotta and Lawrence Colburn, were recognized and decorated many years later for their heroism at My Lai. Andreotta had died in combat three weeks after the massacre, and so was honored posthumously.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 8 at 2014 6:35 PM

2014-04-08T18:35:38-04:00

Another example of a Moral Individual, lest I forget a fellow sailor.

Uriah Phillips Levy (April 22, 1792 – March 26, 1862) was a naval officer, real estate investor, and philanthropist. He was a veteran of the War of 1812 and the first Jewish Commodore of the United States Navy.[note 1] He was instrumental in helping to end the Navy's practice of flogging, and during his half-century-long service prevailed against the antisemitism he faced among some of his fellow naval officers.

An admirer of Thomas Jefferson, Levy purchased and began the restoration of Monticello in the 1830s; he also commissioned and donated a statue of Jefferson that is now located in the Capitol Rotunda; it is the only privately commissioned artwork in the Capitol.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 2:44 AM

2014-04-09T02:44:04-04:00

Once again, CW2 Kantor hit the nail on the head. I'm starting to realize that I must come across as pessimistic, but I think morality has taken a nose dive. I do not think that this is a problem that will last forever, however. With the huge wave of waivers for enlistment, many that shouldn't have been allowed in were brought in. They will eventually weed themselves out. Keep in mind that this is coming from an 88M. Throughout my time, I have seen SEVERAL that I couldn't understand how they made it through MEPS. I will say that in other MOSs, that actually have standards, the problem isn't as prevalent. They came in and poisoned the well, so to speak, in that they come in with the "back on the block" mentality and ruin the little innocent good kids. They do stuff and aren't held accountable, so one that may have been a good Soldier, plays along and finds themselves emulating those that should have never been allowed in, in the first place.

I will say that I have seen a hand-full of the "Stand-Up" service members. As I have been in a few purple environments, most of them were not Army. However, those that are seemed to shine really bright. It is sad that those that are doing the right thing seem so rare.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 23 at 2014 10:54 PM

2014-06-23T22:54:04-04:00

MSG, This reminds me of philosophy class. A moral person to me is a person who is honest, respects others even when respect is not given, believes in keeping families together, and one who contributes to their community and country in positive ways.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 7:43 AM

2014-10-22T07:43:28-04:00

SGM Hahn, the trouble with Truth and Morality is that it is often defined by those in power within specific cultures. What is considered moral and just and right one day may not be acceptable the next as our own history of America reveals.
Truth has another status. There is that which is Provably True and that which we believe to be truth . I believe the sun will rise tomorrow morning, but it is not necessarily provably true forever. There is a high mathematical PROBABILITY that the sun will rise in the morning just as there is a high mathematical probability that someday the sun will not be there. Nor will we.
Throughout recorded history, much of what we thought was true was disproved with new 'facts'; similarly some things we thought were morally right according to the times , were not. Medicine, science, religion, astronomy, geography, race, superstitions are chock full of examples. That does not mean that cultures or politics should not center around moral imperatives; it does mean we should always question them in the light of fact with less emotion.