Who remembers the "Peacetime Army?" Are we headed towards painting rocks again?

SFC Kevin Cornett — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:09:37 -0500

As the Military transitions back towards a "peacetime" stance, will the leaders, (junior and senior alike) forget lessons learned? Will training revert back to check the block exercises, and will budget cuts leave us woefully unprepared for future conflicts? How do we prevent the "training for the last war we fought" as was done after Vietnam, and then again after Desert Storm? Are these real issues that deserve attention, or are they unfounded fears. Thank you in advance for your input.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 8:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:20:22 -0500

We are already gearing up to fight the last war next time.

I'm certain we will go back to check the block training where it was more important for the Range OIC to have a briefing book and dress right port a johns than actually ensure training is conducted.

If we didn't go to war I would have got out as soon as my time was up.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 7 at 2013 8:20 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:20:56 -0500

Two things: Everything is cyclical and war brings money.

The military cannot sustain the current fighting force or training opportunities without funding from the government.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 7 at 2013 8:38 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:38:22 -0500

Perhaps we will eventually go to war with a country whose kryptonite is painted rocks?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2013 8:59 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:59:00 -0500

Our civilian and military leadership (and society in general) need to learn from the past - like the saying goes "learn from history or you are doomed to repeat it."

Response by SPC Rachel Stubbs made Dec 7 at 2013 9:02 PM

SPC Rachel Stubbs — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 21:02:15 -0500

Who said we ever stopped painting rocks. Wether we are in a time of war or peace, there is always going to be that BS detail in between the training missions.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 4:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 16:25:12 -0500

We obviously cannot ignore the priorities of those above us. What I recommend is that we all get accustomed to demanding a purpose to go along with the task we are given. When things are put in perspective people with "great ideas" might realize they are pushing I'm the wrong direction. My old Regimental CSM once said, "If it doesn't kill the enemy or ensure your Soldiers' survivability, then why are you doing it?"

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 5:03 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 17:03:02 -0500

I remember some of that in my first assignment but in the weather field there was no time of peace. Always had something to do that was important and related to peace time activities. In maintenance we cleaned the seals of refrigerators to keep the country safe.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 5:11 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 17:11:23 -0500

Transitioning back to an Army focused primarily on efforts other than training for combat is inevitable but we must remember that as Leaders we have to train as if we'll be leaving for another deployment in 2 weeks. We're not doing so hot on that now and it starts from the top down. Those Seniors must enforce the standard for those that serve underneath them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2013 8:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 20:26:38 -0500

if we are heading in that direction, then it will be a long trip especially when we are the so called "world police".

Response by MAJ Joseph Parker made Dec 9 at 2013 9:31 PM

MAJ Joseph Parker — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 21:31:13 -0500

SFC Cornett: Great question! The answer is that most leadership won't forget the lessons learned, but the organizational dynamics of the Army, political pressures, and budgetary constraints will inevitably push training into a showcase mode at best and as in times past the military will not be fully prepared. Some of the RP readers may remember TF Smith from Korea, and soldiers preparing for "OHIO" before WWII. This question has been raised since after the Revolutionary War, and was the very reason for the founding of West Point in 1802, so it is not an unfounded fear. It has been that way ever since.

Of course, junior leaders can just go with the flow. Do minimal training because there isn't enough money, not enough ammo, too hard to be innovative. Nobody really cares anyway. Don't rock the boat. Chances are there won't be any hostile action; and if there is the unit will get everything it needs and there will be time to get ready. Most leaders are more than willing to bet their soldiers lives on that. In the end, careers are far more important. Right?

Wrong. Leaders must train with whatever resources they have, even if there are none at all. Every junior leader owes it to the troops in their charge to have them ready for combat and their mission at all times, no excuses about budgets, Washington, whatever. The enemy won't allow the excuses, the troops won't forgive the excuses, their parents and families won't accept the excuses, and those excuses will sit in the junior leader's heart forever, if they even survive. The same goes to the supporting units' excuses. Think of it this way: would any unit quit fighting because they ran out of resources? Hell no. They would fight to the death. We train the way we fight. There were lots of ways we did it. Today's SMs will do it, too.

Apologies for the long post. Thank you for your excellent service, SFC Cornett!

Response by SGT Tommy Silvas made Dec 11 at 2013 2:10 PM

SGT Tommy Silvas — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 14:10:34 -0500

Being in the 82nd airborne I remember there not even being enough money to fuel the airplanes so we can go on jumps or field problems, not a good time for the military or the country. I truly hope that does not happen again.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 2:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 14:19:07 -0500

Our military training and doctrine still has a solid foundation in conventional warfare and a very comfortable familiarity in the unconventional. Along with the newly-developed Direct Action Training Envoronment (DATE) scenarios, and a pruning of leaders who lack potential, I believe we will be much better prepared for future contingency operations than we were for OEF.

Response by SPC Chad Force made Dec 16 at 2013 7:09 PM

SPC Chad Force — Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:09:57 -0500

Wow this post brings back memories. I remember rocks being painted at Ft. Hood, and even grass being painted at Ft. Lewis. God forbid there be a brown patch during a dog and pony show. On the other hand, I also remember walking to the field carrying a SAW...while assigned as a Bradley driver...in order to conduct valuable training when funds for fuel were limited. There were good and bad things sent our way by the chain of command, but Jr NCO's and even individuals had opportunities to excel. For me individually the biggest impact of the low funding levels was the fact that I could not get a single, residential combat arms related school...even as battalion soldier of the year! Sure wanted a try at Ranger or Sniper school...but would have jumped at ANY school remotely related to my job. Also remember some great individual and squad level training during SGT's time...sad that we usually only took a break from work details once a week to actually train while in garrison .

Response by SFC James Baber made Jan 11 at 2014 11:33 PM

SFC James Baber — Sat, 11 Jan 2014 23:33:43 -0500

I think this is a good thread for those we are trying to get to join can see the substance of some things we discuss between us as current and former military, soft spoken as well as informational and mentoring types of postings.

We also have fun at times while remaining professional.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2014 12:27 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 00:27:21 -0500

Lol, Marines paint rocks during wartime, peacetime just gets stupid... well, at least from what I've heard. I think the Marine Corps has been and is doing a good job at training for every clime and place.

Response by LTC Paul Mullins made May 9 at 2014 10:00 AM

LTC Paul Mullins — Fri, 09 May 2014 10:00:30 -0400

Yes, we are going back to painting rocks again. It may not literally be painting rocks, but it is that mentality. We are now starting to create more and more bureaucracy when we don't need it. i.e. creating an excel spreadsheet that needs updating daily for a statistic that no one paid any attention to until the past year.

But, as a positive we are also starting to train as we did before 9/11 on legacy and new missions. As MSG Cunningham stated above, our officers and NCOs who have only been in since 9/11 don't know how to do peacetime training and daily activities. You get a very blank stare on things that a lot of us take for granted. Like the Green/Amber/Red cycle we reinstituted here at Ft. Stewart a few months ago. That hasn't been used in over 10 years.

And the budgets are shrinking with the personnel reductions and this will continue for the forseeable future. For those who have lived through one or two of these post-war eras, we know it will get worse. They will have us hit bottom before we start climbing and eventually reach an even keel (to borrow a Navy term).

So, yes, painting rocks is back in vogue, but so are a lot of good things to.

Response by SSgt Kevin Beckley made Jun 2 at 2014 10:25 PM

SSgt Kevin Beckley — Mon, 02 Jun 2014 22:25:54 -0400

I hope not. I remember when I got out in 1988 and joined the Army National Guard I was to be a 52 Charley. We worked on house refrigerators and painted curbs. As an E5 Sgt It was humiliating. Then Desert Storm Broke out and since I was in a mash unit. Army took our Doctors and Nurses to Fill another unit. So we painted.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Nov 8 at 2015 6:00 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Sun, 08 Nov 2015 18:00:17 -0500

Right after schools got a higher priority over combat experience said everything to me about the enlisted way of life for the future. W