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I am my Detachments Primary Armorer.
My new Det Sergeant is requiring me to surrender my range box to BN S3.
The other Company arm's rooms do not do this, And S3 is very confused as to why they would maintain a Detachments range box.
I have looked into 190-11 but have not found anything regarding this issue. Does anyone have any regulation/doctrine references that would apply to this scenario?
Thank you!
My new Det Sergeant is requiring me to surrender my range box to BN S3.
The other Company arm's rooms do not do this, And S3 is very confused as to why they would maintain a Detachments range box.
I have looked into 190-11 but have not found anything regarding this issue. Does anyone have any regulation/doctrine references that would apply to this scenario?
Thank you!
Operations (S3)
Detachment Sergeant
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 6
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Get the DET NCOIC or DET CO visibility on this.
A range box isn't a "big deal", but it can sure complicate a range day if it's not on hand. Passing it up to BN only adds additional complexity to planning for a range.
1) Another chain to go up through to get hands on the Range Box.
2) Presumes the Range Box will be fully stocked with everything the DET needs the moment it is passed down.
3) Now introduces another chain of custody into the Range Box where others can pilfer from it for their own range boxes.
How is the DET commander in this case? I ask, because some of my peer LT commanders who were very green commanders showed up to a Range weekend without ammo because the whole planning process wasn't done correctly, and the commander LT didn't know any better either.
So I present this, if your chain of command is OK with this I caution them to familiarize themselves with the whole range planning process.
Oh, we don't have extra targets
Oh we only have one stapler
Oh we don't have any staples
Oh we don't have any extra ear plugs
Oh we don't have the HAZMAT placards to transport ammo
Oh we don't have weapons manuals and SOPs
Oh we don't have the safety officer and Combat Life saver roster
Where are those?
The range box?
Where's the range box?
At BN?
WTF is it at BN
Remember, SGT Smith wanted it there and the commander was OK with it?
No, who is SGT Smith, oh he ETS'd 10 months ago.
Which commander was OK with this?
LT Snuffy, the one you just took over for............
SOB................
OK, run to Office Depot, and get a bunch of staplers on my dime, and then head over to Lowes, and pick up ear plugs
Then run Office Max and make 100 copies of this zero target we have, tape up the bullet holes first though and cross out SFC Dude's name on the top of it.
Down load the weapons manuals in PDF, e-mail them to yourself and run to the Fedex store, rent computer time and print the weapon manuals and buy a binder for them. Just incase range control shows up and audit's their safety SOP's and we need the manuals on hand.
I can go on and on...............
A range box isn't a "big deal", but it can sure complicate a range day if it's not on hand. Passing it up to BN only adds additional complexity to planning for a range.
1) Another chain to go up through to get hands on the Range Box.
2) Presumes the Range Box will be fully stocked with everything the DET needs the moment it is passed down.
3) Now introduces another chain of custody into the Range Box where others can pilfer from it for their own range boxes.
How is the DET commander in this case? I ask, because some of my peer LT commanders who were very green commanders showed up to a Range weekend without ammo because the whole planning process wasn't done correctly, and the commander LT didn't know any better either.
So I present this, if your chain of command is OK with this I caution them to familiarize themselves with the whole range planning process.
Oh, we don't have extra targets
Oh we only have one stapler
Oh we don't have any staples
Oh we don't have any extra ear plugs
Oh we don't have the HAZMAT placards to transport ammo
Oh we don't have weapons manuals and SOPs
Oh we don't have the safety officer and Combat Life saver roster
Where are those?
The range box?
Where's the range box?
At BN?
WTF is it at BN
Remember, SGT Smith wanted it there and the commander was OK with it?
No, who is SGT Smith, oh he ETS'd 10 months ago.
Which commander was OK with this?
LT Snuffy, the one you just took over for............
SOB................
OK, run to Office Depot, and get a bunch of staplers on my dime, and then head over to Lowes, and pick up ear plugs
Then run Office Max and make 100 copies of this zero target we have, tape up the bullet holes first though and cross out SFC Dude's name on the top of it.
Down load the weapons manuals in PDF, e-mail them to yourself and run to the Fedex store, rent computer time and print the weapon manuals and buy a binder for them. Just incase range control shows up and audit's their safety SOP's and we need the manuals on hand.
I can go on and on...............
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SP5 (Join to see)
CPT (Join to see) You have pulled the appropriate pages from the book on Murphy's Law - "if anything can go wrong, it will".
Thanks for the humor.
Thanks for the humor.
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MAJ Ken Landgren
I agree with all your points. The primary use for the range box is the detachment, not the battalion. It does not make much sense centralizing the custody of the range box.
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What is the 3 shop gonna do with a Range Box? Now, here is my question...Just because the DET SGT wants you to kick it to the 3 Shop, what does your Commander want?
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SGT (Join to see)
1st: your not going to find what you're asking for in a regulation, maybe a local policy addressing a Detachments responsibility in relation to being tasked to coordinate and run a unit range day (Now there's a thought, a written and published document common to all that lays out the unit, BN, BDE, ect responsibilities for a training calendar planned event...LOL)
2nd: What's a range box? ( I know what that phrase means to me) A "range box" is not a piece of issue equipment with an inventory list, -10 manual, ect. Its a general term used to mean a box(s) that contain what the leadership wants in that box to support a range day.
Perhaps the DET SGT has been burned once too many times by a keeper of the "range box" and left the detachment scrambling for items on range day.
The unit operations expert, the S3 is tasked by design to know what equipment, requests, approvals, policies, supplies ect are needed to coordinate and execute a training event. Who better than the S3 shop to establish what is required, by item and quantity for a unit range box?
Now, if the BN HQ (the S3) is geographically separated, or works on a different day/ time line than the detachment..the range box should likely be at the lowest unit level that operates independently.
Lastly; the items in your range box.... are all items procured from supply yes? Is this a fight worth taking on? Give the S3 the box, then build a new one you maintain.
1st: your not going to find what you're asking for in a regulation, maybe a local policy addressing a Detachments responsibility in relation to being tasked to coordinate and run a unit range day (Now there's a thought, a written and published document common to all that lays out the unit, BN, BDE, ect responsibilities for a training calendar planned event...LOL)
2nd: What's a range box? ( I know what that phrase means to me) A "range box" is not a piece of issue equipment with an inventory list, -10 manual, ect. Its a general term used to mean a box(s) that contain what the leadership wants in that box to support a range day.
Perhaps the DET SGT has been burned once too many times by a keeper of the "range box" and left the detachment scrambling for items on range day.
The unit operations expert, the S3 is tasked by design to know what equipment, requests, approvals, policies, supplies ect are needed to coordinate and execute a training event. Who better than the S3 shop to establish what is required, by item and quantity for a unit range box?
Now, if the BN HQ (the S3) is geographically separated, or works on a different day/ time line than the detachment..the range box should likely be at the lowest unit level that operates independently.
Lastly; the items in your range box.... are all items procured from supply yes? Is this a fight worth taking on? Give the S3 the box, then build a new one you maintain.
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Capt John Schmitt
Actually sounds more like a task for the S-4 shop to get all the materials and maintain a ready stock of common supplies needed for range boxes within the BN. That is where the supplies are requisitioned through in the first place, and how they get to the range and back... but the "range box" for unit range training - that's a small unit type readiness issue, JIC or CYA if the range is deficient in supplies.
As a PLT, CO, Section, and Independent commander I had my own "range box" (Stock of live fire supplies) and each of my SNCO's had one too, with what they may need within their area of responsibility. Maybe just a Marine thing though.
Only time I had an Armorer was when I was OIC of the BN Armory.
As a PLT, CO, Section, and Independent commander I had my own "range box" (Stock of live fire supplies) and each of my SNCO's had one too, with what they may need within their area of responsibility. Maybe just a Marine thing though.
Only time I had an Armorer was when I was OIC of the BN Armory.
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SGM Erik Marquez
Capt John Schmitt
I was always a big believer in supplies been issued and maintain
At the lowest level by the end-users. Not hoarded and centralized location where they had to be extracted usually through tedious and time-consuming practice
And I absolutely agree with you
As a company for certain everyone of my platoons had its own range box that they were responsible for if it was their turn to run a company range box better be up-to-date and ready to go
That also provided some redundancy in case another Bluetooth range box fell short or the company was tasked to run a battalion or larger range we can consolidate platoon a company range boxes and facilitate the larger range
I was always a big believer in supplies been issued and maintain
At the lowest level by the end-users. Not hoarded and centralized location where they had to be extracted usually through tedious and time-consuming practice
And I absolutely agree with you
As a company for certain everyone of my platoons had its own range box that they were responsible for if it was their turn to run a company range box better be up-to-date and ready to go
That also provided some redundancy in case another Bluetooth range box fell short or the company was tasked to run a battalion or larger range we can consolidate platoon a company range boxes and facilitate the larger range
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