Who would win if US Marines went up against Russian naval infantry?

SP5 Mark Kuzinski — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:00:51 -0500

The United States Marine Corps: 241 years of butt-kicking and tradition!
Russian Naval Infantry: A Russian military force with 311 years of victory — and defeat!

Which is the deadlier unit in a matchup of the U.S. versus Russia when it comes to naval infantry? Comments please.

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Dec 3 at 2016 10:03 AM

SSgt Terry P. — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:03:24 -0500

I may be a little prejudice on this matter.

Response by SFC George Smith made Dec 3 at 2016 10:04 AM

SFC George Smith — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:04:44 -0500

this is one I would not want to wager on... But I would Pray and be there to pass the Ammo and hope the US marines would prevail.....

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Dec 3 at 2016 10:05 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:05:50 -0500

SP5 Mark Kuzinski I can tell you I'd put my money on the United States Marines - Ooh Rah!

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Dec 3 at 2016 10:06 AM

Capt Tom Brown — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:06:21 -0500

USMC without a doubt. (not the best forum to ask this question if you want an objective answer)

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 10:16 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:16:18 -0500

US Marines have been engaged in constant combat for almost 16 yrs now. Annexing Crimea is not comparable.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Dec 3 at 2016 10:32 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:32:07 -0500

Marines would of course, they take more initiative and overall are smarter due to the societal and educational demands we place on them prior to enlistment that alone gives them a large edge just like it does on the Army side. The 17-22 years olds of today though much maligned are a LOT better in thinking skills, reaction speed and trainability than the 17-22 year olds back in the 1980's, IMO. I think that is largely due to how our society has changed in regards to educational standards K-12, Technology adaptation (Russians back in the 1990's still in some cases).......just better and more well rounded younger folks (with some exceptions of course).

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 3 at 2016 10:36 AM

LTC Stephen C. — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:36:06 -0500

I'll go with the USMC, SP5 Mark Kuzinski. People that select the Russians on this thread ought to find a new home...Russia! Besides, the USMC is much bigger!

Response by Sgt Wayne Wood made Dec 3 at 2016 10:38 AM

Sgt Wayne Wood — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 10:38:11 -0500

We have better Air & Naval support assets.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Dec 3 at 2016 11:04 AM

PO3 David Fries — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 11:04:45 -0500

Without any idea of the capabilities of the Russian Naval Infantry, I have to go with what I do know. USMC all day.

Response by Maj John Bell made Dec 3 at 2016 11:40 AM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 11:40:25 -0500

Base line assumptions from 35 years ago.
-Russian Naval infantry was supposed to pose a threat to line of communication, lines of logistics, or key terrain/installations. As opposed to massive projection of power ashore to seize a force beach head and open another front.
-Russian Naval Infantry would not be employed as part of a combined arms team. They lacked medium and heavy artillery, fixed and rotary wing close air support, and medium/heavy armor.
-Unlike the rest of the Russian Army, the Russian Naval Infantry was supposedly good at understanding Commander's intent an seizing the initiative if the Chain of Command's lines of communication were disrupted.

An honest answer. I would never want to fight a Russian, Naval Infantry or Regular Army, on his own turf. I would never want to fight a Russian who has had a lot of time on his hands and a shovel with which to dig. They prefer to grind an enemy up with well prepared defensive positions backed up with indirect fires up the ying yang (yes that is the doctrinal term). Since Russian Naval Infantry lacks the logistical base to provide ying yang level volume of indirect fires, boo hoo to them.

So, if the Marines got to pick the terrain (an important part of any General's plan) and had all the elements of Combined Arms at their disposal. We'd kick their ass.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Dec 3 at 2016 11:44 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 11:44:11 -0500

Didn't even know Russian Navy had an infantry, but it makes sense even if they are an unknown unit, at least to this AF guy. Doesn't matter though, marines would swab the decks with them!

Response by SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder made Dec 3 at 2016 12:17 PM

SGT Matthew Schenkenfelder — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 12:17:20 -0500

The Marines.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Dec 3 at 2016 12:30 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 12:30:43 -0500

To use an old Stripes assessment.

Response by MSgt Richard Randall made Dec 3 at 2016 12:43 PM

MSgt Richard Randall — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 12:43:28 -0500

Good question. The only thing that came to mind was from that old dude, Sun Tzu:

"Knowing others and knowing oneself, in one hundred battles no danger.
Not knowing the other and knowing oneself, one victory for one loss.
Not knowing the other and not knowing oneself, in every battle certain defeat."

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 3 at 2016 1:01 PM

SN Greg Wright — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 13:01:50 -0500

USMC, without a doubt. However, remember than NO ONE has ever successfully invaded Russia during the winter. Alexander tried it. Ghengis tried it. Napoleon tried it. Hitler tried it. All failed. So in those circumstances....well.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 1:27 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 13:27:12 -0500

Having served with and trained in combat tactics by Marines and Served in combat with them I am going with USMC everyday all day. The Marines have Air Ground and Sea advantage, they now how to use this and why they call it MAGTAF. My Navy Ground Combat Support community is a big part of that combat team. We set our Battalions up just Like Marines, and use Company, Platoons, Squads and Fire Teams just like Marines, so we can operate with them in combat. The regular Fleet side of the Navy uses what is called N-Shops Like N-3 (OPS) and N-4 (Logistics) we do not, we use S-CODES Like 3-3, S-2, S-4 and S-1 just like Marines one more time so we can talk and work like them. I love Marines have been under-fire and engaged in contact with them, and saved by them a couple of times (QRF) Have two Combat Action Ribbons earned with Marines not with Navy and have two Fleet Marine Force Combat Operations Insignia's earned in combat. God Bless Marines and Oorah freaking Rah from "Can Do"

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2016 1:41 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 13:41:56 -0500

Marines will overcome all obstacles to secure the objective.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Dec 3 at 2016 1:52 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 13:52:11 -0500

Marines. I am biased

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Dec 3 at 2016 2:07 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 14:07:16 -0500

Why is this even a question? Communism is dead. Sure, there are a few college professors on American campuses lecturing our children about the virtues of communism. Yes, there is still a communist government in China hanging onto the horns of a bullish capitalist economy. And, a communist bureaucracy still likes to parade in the streets of Havana. But there are new enemies in the world. Real enemies that we need to focus on. Let's compare our Marines to Jihadists. That makes more sense to me. Actually, one of the encouraging aspects of Trumps campaign was the apparent relationship between him and Russia. Russia has resources. America knows how to exploit them. I think that could make for a wonderful symbiotic relationship. How about this: Who could take on the U.S. Marines and the Russian Naval Infantry fighting side-by-side?

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Dec 3 at 2016 5:41 PM

SSgt David Tedrow — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 17:41:36 -0500

There are many reasons that The USMC would most likely prevail in a head to head. The best reason is history as well as the choice to become a Marine. Russia still has a conscript military, and although many choose to become Naval Infantry, many don't. There are discipline issues, language issues and lack of trained leaders in the Russian морской пехоты.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Dec 3 at 2016 10:07 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Sat, 03 Dec 2016 22:07:36 -0500

This matchup would be heavily influenced by location and climate SP5 Mark Kuzinski. For instance if the matchup occurred north of Vladivostok in the winter or in northern Siberia the Russian Naval Infantry would prevail because they would know how to maintain their equipment and survive in 50 degrees below and colder much better than the USMC forces would.
On the other hand if the matchup were in the mountains of Afghanistan or Iraq in the summer, then the USMC would prevail undoubtedly.
Every western nation which invaded Russia in the winter has suffered terribly.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Dec 4 at 2016 12:07 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 00:07:59 -0500

Marines.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 4 at 2016 12:18 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 00:18:36 -0500

On a level playing field, properly supported, my MC buddies would clean house. That said, with Dumb A ROEs, conflicting mission requirements, no exit strategy, and limited support, we could be in for it. We've had many many years of one arm being tied behind our backs. I'm waiting for the PC crowd to insist on safe zones and a veto authority to prohibit "micro aggressions". After all you don't want to hurt their feelings. Like anything else, the circumstances have not been fleshed out.

Response by SP5 Mark Kuzinski made Dec 4 at 2016 12:24 AM

SP5 Mark Kuzinski — Sun, 04 Dec 2016 00:24:18 -0500

Update:

Who would win if US Marines went up against Russian naval infantry

Using a force of five pre-positioned vessels, the U.S. delivered the gear and supplies needed for the 4th MEB to operate for 30 days as additional heavy forces arrived. It wasn’t anyone’s idea of a slouch: It brought a reinforced regiment of Marines (three battalions of Marine infantry, a battalion of artillery, and companies of AAV-7A1 Amphibious Assault Vehicles, Light Armored Vehicles, and tanks) for ground combat, and also featured three squadrons of AV-8B+ Harriers, two squadrons of F/A-18C Hornets, a squadron of EA-6B Prowlers, and seven squadrons of helicopters.
A Russian Naval Infantry Brigade is also quite powerful. For the sake of this discussion, let’s look at the forces of Red Banner Northern Fleet, centered on the 61st Kirkinesskaya Red Banner Marine Brigade.
The Red Banner Northern Fleet’s naval infantry force has three battalions of naval infantry, one air-assault battalion, one “reconnaissance” battalion, one “armored” battalion, two artillery battalions, and an air-defense battalion.
If things were to come to blows in Norway during the Cold War (or today, for that matter), these units would go head-to-head. In fact, ironically, the 4th MEB was diverted from preparations for a deployment exercise to Norway to respond to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. So, who would win that face-off?
With what is effectively four battalions of infantry, a reconnaissance battalion, a tank battalion, two artillery battalions, and the other attachments, the Russians have a slight numerical edge in ground firepower. The air-defense battalion can somewhat negate the air power that a Marine Expeditionary Brigade would bring to a fight.
That said, some of the equipment is older, like the PT-76 light tank and the BRDM-2 armored car. The BMP-2 is equipping some units, but many still use BTR-80 and MT-LB armored personnel carriers. Very few BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles or T-90 main battle tanks have arrived.
That said, the American Marines have potent firepower of their own. Perhaps the most potent ground firepower would come from the company of M1A1 Abrams tanks. Don’t be fooled by their 1980s lineage — these tanks have been heavily upgraded, and are on par with the M1A2 SEP tanks in Army service.
Marine Corps LAV-25s and LAV-ATs can also kill the armored vehicles attached to the Red Banner Northern Fleet. This does not include man-portable anti-tank missiles like the FGM-148 Javelin or the BGM-71 TOW.
What will really ruin the day for the Russian Naval Infantry is the Marine aviation. Marine aviation specifically trains to support Marines on the ground, and the close-air support — particularly from the AV-8B+ Harrier — will prove to be very decisive.
In short, the Marines might be spotting Russian Naval Infantry seven decades of tradition, but they will show the Russians why they were called “devil dogs.”

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Dec 5 at 2016 8:52 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 08:52:48 -0500

Well I might be a little biased.... but I'm going to have to say Marines. I have never fought any Russians, but I do know the Marine Corps mindset.

Not all Marines are infantry, but every Marine I met has a warrior mindset. We train. We fight. We shoot and we pump ourselves up just in the hope that we'd have the opportunity to get into the fight.

They might have more years than us, but I can't imagine anyone thirsting for fighting more than a US Marine.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Dec 5 at 2016 12:05 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 12:05:05 -0500

As nice as it is to acknowledge hundreds of years of history, what really counts is the level of combat experience among the combatants and their command today, along with their respective training, technology and equipment. Factoring those in, I'd bet my paycheck on a solid Marine Corp victory in a head-to-head matchup.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2016 6:42 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 06:42:43 -0500

Usmc

Response by GySgt Joseph Jay Johnston made Dec 6 at 2016 6:56 AM

GySgt Joseph Jay Johnston — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 06:56:15 -0500

U.S.M.C would win,Russia has lost and they wouuld lose against us Marines....

Response by LCpl Frankie Rush made Dec 6 at 2016 8:40 AM

LCpl Frankie Rush — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 08:40:20 -0500

The US Marines would win hands down if politics stayed out of the mix.

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Dec 6 at 2016 9:43 AM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 09:43:57 -0500

As long as we treat them with respect: we can kill them with respect.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Dec 6 at 2016 10:08 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:08:48 -0500

This is a good question ! Since I was a Marine from 1979 - 1988 , of course I will say we would win any conflict. Because attitudes, times and training were of such that only a total idiot would oppose the United States Marines. But I got a cold dose of reality will serving as part of a communications team while aboard an LPH back in 83. On day while on duty, we notice a big board on a stand and it was covered over with a white sheet. Since the room was a secure area, we quickly pulled back the sheet to have a quick look, and what we saw made our hearts stop ! It was a complete schematic of Russians Naval , land and Air assets. At that time we were out gunned in Naval and man power. We had Air Superiority, and N.A.T.O. But we learned something about Russia, that navy base they have just north east of Norway , was frozen and could not move 4 to 6 months out of the year, while we could move at will. So we learned that Russia would not dare start a fight during the harsh winter months. Also our Cobra Helicopters didn't carry enough fire power to bring down a Russian H.I.N.D helicopter. Black Hawks didn't exist back then. Also the Russian Bear Bombers were so big, that it could take a couple of hits front our sidewinders and still fly to its target. During those days of the early to mid eighties the Tomcat Pilots for instructed to fly their F- 14 in to the Bombay of the Russian bears once the bomb bay doors were open. I'm sure much is changed in 2016 rush it is nowhere near the superpower it once was so I'm very confident that the United States Marines would not only defeat rush it but beat them back across Norway over Finland and back into their country where they belong.

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Dec 6 at 2016 4:14 PM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 16:14:09 -0500

This is a joke, right?

Response by Sgt Christopher Robin made Dec 6 at 2016 4:41 PM

Sgt Christopher Robin — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 16:41:20 -0500

Would like the think some salty old dogs would win...but have learned the hard way to never underestimate the tenacity of your enemy (; Carry-on!

Response by Sgt Joseph Baker made Dec 6 at 2016 4:53 PM

Sgt Joseph Baker — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 16:53:32 -0500

I noticed the picture selected for this thread really says it all. There are at least three Marines seen in this photo. Only one is shooting. That's because they want to make if a fair fight.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2016 7:28 PM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Dec 2016 19:28:02 -0500

Silly question because it depends on things outside of Marine Corps controll. Do the politicians let us go full bore against the Russians? Many questions and scenarios that would need to be worked out to give a better hip fire answer.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2016 5:18 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Dec 2016 05:18:43 -0500

The Marine Corps of past isn't the New Corps. Technology wise , in the field, we win. Hand-to-hand it comes down to individual motivation and training. What we can do BEFORE we hit the trenches will make all the difference. I just have a feeling the Russians rely too much on the hand-to-hand, the in fighting if you will. War is not waged like WWII anymore. Marines just aren't "grunts", we are grunts with brains. The US arsenal is far superior in what is available to the Marine. What good is an equal size Russian force in the field if half of them are dead before the battle begins?

Response by TSgt James Goldsmith made Dec 8 at 2016 11:54 AM

TSgt James Goldsmith — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 11:54:01 -0500

USMC against anyone!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2016 4:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 16:44:32 -0500

Devil Dogs kick ass!!!

Response by Cpl Joshua Caldwell made Dec 12 at 2016 9:20 PM

Cpl Joshua Caldwell — Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:20:15 -0500

Cut off their vodka supply and the Russians will wilt like a flower in the snow.

Response by SSG Ronald Lowe made Dec 13 at 2016 8:26 AM

SSG Ronald Lowe — Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:26:33 -0500

When was the last real fight the RNI had? 1945? We have been fighting continuously for 20 years and War tempo for 13. We would smoke them.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Jun 2 at 2017 2:41 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 14:41:33 -0400

Who would win if US Marines went up against Russian naval infantry? Have you ever heard the expression diamond cutting diamond? Though you have to the US Marines the edge because of the Marine Air Wings they love to move mud and they are damned good at it!

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Jun 2 at 2017 2:41 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 14:41:52 -0400