Why am I not allowed to go to the promotion board for being on profile for a pending surgery? Is there a regulation supporting my position?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:33:22 -0400

My PS is preventing me from going to the promotion board. I have won the company board and I shoot perfect in every weapon. I'm an outstanding soldier. My TL and SL tell me they want me to go to the P board. But because I'm on profile for a pending surgery on my knee I cant go? Because I am incapable of taking the PT test? Even though I'm pending surgery, and with this whole coronavirus thing I am not able to get surgery until it blows over. So can anyone tell me am I really stuck? There is nothing I can do? Not to mention I have been a E4 since January 2018

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 12:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:41:40 -0400

Here's the thing.....you are on a temporary profile. Even if you did go to the board and get your P, you can't go to PME school with a temporary profile. Also, most Army units are being ordered to NOT hold an in person promotion board due to the spread of COVID-19. Also, the Army is stopping movement. Which means, no one is going anywhere any time soon. In order to go to school, you need a current/valid APFT score. You can't get that with a temporary profile. If you can't get to school due to surgery and due to COVID-19, you could very well fall off the PPRL. Perhaps your Platoon Sergeant is looking out for your well being and not wanting to waste everyone's (to include your) time. Have you sat down with your Platoon Sergeant and/or TL and/or SL to be counselled as to why you are not getting to the promotion board?

And food for thought, I once sat as a SPC for 11 years before making SGT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 12:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 12:49:22 -0400

There is a registration, it's called Enlisted Promotions and Reductions AR 600-8-19.
Read it and you will see when you are eligible to go and when you are required to go

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 1:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:02:52 -0400

a temporary profile in and of itself should not prevent you from getting promoted. unless you are flagged or your last APFT is too long ago. I have been promoted twice while on temp profile. once to E6 and once to O3. but that was a long time ago and things may have changed.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 2:21 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:21:44 -0400

You just need to tough it out and do what you have to do to get promoted the surgery will come. I went my last 16 years in the Army with no ACL, Went to BNCOC, ANCOC, AudiMurphy, Drill Sergeant School, two years on the Trail and WOCS and two Warrant Officer Basic Courses like that. A permanent profile want hurt you. I ran on my PT test and won every other award in school but it's all heart buddy. I was Artillery where everything was a competition so you don't want to fall behind three others. With that being said in year 20 I had a total knee replacement but it was worth all I put my body through.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 2:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:23:47 -0400

If you have to vindicate yourself to figure out why you are not being sent, i.e shooting expert and being an "outstanding" soldier, there are probably some issues that are not being mentioned in the post. You have been an E4 since Jan 2018, meaning you should theoretically be in your primary zone which should have resulted in you being sent to the board. If not, your command is initiating BAR paperwork.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 2:48 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 14:48:05 -0400

What's wrong with the knee

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 3:39 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 15:39:41 -0400

You can get a run at own pace and distance but the profile helps until three surgery and makes you eligible for the board. You only need a scope to fix what's wrong which you can recover from in less than a month I've had three

Response by COL Thom Brooks made Mar 26 at 2020 6:24 PM

COL Thom Brooks — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:24:48 -0400

I suspect that with the present pandemic, the APFT might be waivered, allowing you to be promoted. I have not read the exact guidelines, but you might want to look into this. The additional problem is going to the schoolhouse, with a temporary profile. BLUF: don't give up, but be respectful.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2020 12:35 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 12:35:13 -0400

Regardless of the *Opinions* stated here, the Regulation (AR 600-8-19) is the ultimate judge here. The only reference I can find in the reg regarding profiles relating to promotion is for those who got a profile due to combat action. In that reg, it states,

"b. Soldiers who are unable to take an aerobic or alternate APFT event due to a permanent physical profile will use their last APFT score until the Soldier is medically cleared to take the APFT. If the Soldier’s last score was a failing score, that Soldier will be granted a minimum qualifying score of 60 points for each APFT event.
c. Temporary physical profiles and APFT.
(1) AA, AGR, and TPU Soldiers with a temporary profile that prohibit taking one or more events of the APFT will use their current APFT score provided it is not more than 2 years old at the time of the promotion point computation." AR 600-8-19, Ch. 1-32

3-42 (4)(2) says:
"(2) Temporary profiles.
(a) Soldiers with a temporary profile that prohibits taking one or more events of the APFT will use their current APFT score provided it is not more than 1 year old at the time of the promotion point computation and the Soldier was not afforded the opportunity to take an APFT or an authorized alternate test.
(b) If the Soldier was afforded the opportunity and failed, or through his or her own negligence (as determined by the unit CDR) failed to take the test, the Soldier will lose the APFT points."

Those notations do not say whether the profile had to be combat-related or not, but I would assume so, as it was stated earlier in the reg.

Regarding NCOES schools, 7-32 says:
"Soldiers with a temporary medical profile due to participation in contingency operations will be permitted by their immediate CDR to attend professional military education within the guidelines of their temporary profile. Soldiers must arrive at the course of instruction with a copy of their current temporary profile and a memorandum signed by their CDR that states the temporary profile is a result
of injuries sustained due to participation in contingency operations."

So the bottom line seems to be that if your injury was combat-related, you should be allowed to appear before the promotion board. If not, your leadership may have broad discretionary power to not invite you to the board. However, as SFC Thomas Livingston noted, you should have been counseled as to why you are not going to the board. The regulation backs this up.

"1–26. Counseling of Soldiers not recommended for promotion
a. First-line leaders will counsel Soldiers who are eligible for promotion to PV2 through SSG without a waiver (fully qualified) but not recommended in writing. Counseling will take place initially when the Soldier attains eligibility, and at least every 3 months thereafter, and include information as to why the Soldier was not recommended and what can be done to correct deficiencies or qualities that reflect a lack of promotion potential."

If this doesn't happen, you have a good case for Inspector General review of the situation. If your injury was combat/contingency related, and you are not invited to the board, then that too, is a reason to contact the IG. However, take these specific notations in the regulation to your leadership, and present them in a respectful manner, requesting that you be allowed to attend the promotion board. Good Luck!