Why are fewer young Veterans joining Veteran organizations (VFW, American Legion) post military service?

2014-08-15T00:33:27-04:00

Our WWII Veteran ranks are very thin, and we are losing many Korean War Veterans now. Vietnam Veterans are in their upper 60s or 70s already. My point is, our stories and our history is shared across the generations in lodges and halls across the country, but fewer Veterans are joining these organizations post military. Who will tell their stories when they are all gone....who will tell our stories? Curious to others opinions on this subject! Thanks in advance! AATW!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 5:42 AM

2014-08-15T05:42:00-04:00

When they have an app for that I'm sure the younger guys will get involved. Or if they could tweet their way in I'm sure that would pull some members in. Just saying too many younger people just wanna do social media, well hell look at me I'm on a computer right now so i guess i can't say much right.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 15 at 2014 9:02 AM

2014-08-15T09:02:00-04:00

This is an issue that all the service organizations are facing. The bottom line is that these groups (VFW, American Legion, DAV, AMVETS, etc.) are our primary voice in Washington and provide representation through accredited Service Officers in the filing of VA Claims.. as the local posts struggle and die off, these program become in danger of going away. Membership starts at the local level. These posts need to start reaching out to our younger veterans to get them (and their families) involved.
Before anyone starts, yes, I understand there are numerous posts out there 'stuck in the dark ages' that don't want to change things.. but it's going to have to happen if they want to keep their posts alive and 'young blood' is the only answer.
All it takes is to get a few younger members and allow them to help 'tailor' programs to attract more... it CAN be done, it NEEDS to be done. The services these organizations provide (Nationally and Locally) are needed but can't continue without membership.
As a message to all of you younger vets on this site.. at least TRY to get involved at a local post... give them fresh ideas, it doesn't take much time! PLEASE!

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Aug 15 at 2014 9:14 AM

2014-08-15T09:14:36-04:00

I will be joining the VFW, right now it is a money alignment issue.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 15 at 2014 11:05 AM

2014-08-15T11:05:21-04:00

Simple: Young vets see no benefit in joining.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Aug 15 at 2014 11:15 AM

2014-08-15T11:15:50-04:00

My biggest constraint is time. I was a member in the American Legion and American Legion Riders when I was stationed in San Antonio.... when I moved away from San Antonio a couple things happened.... 1. local chapter does not have an American Legion Riders group 2. I was disappointed in myself for lack of involvement....my time is limited due to family obligations. I do not want to "join a group" and not have any meaningful participation. Family comes first, work comes next....with those 2, I have very little time left over for a "third: organization participation".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 11:35 AM

2014-08-15T11:35:58-04:00

Great question 1SG John O. ! I joined a local VFW post within a few months of my arrival at Fort Polk. The biggest influence in my joining was the fact that I work with one of the leaders of that VFW post SGM Matthew West. He gave me losts of info about the organization and I stopped by and saw what they do for the community. I am one of only a handful of active duty personnel who are also members at this particular post and I think the main reason for it might simply be a lack of awareness. Before I joined, I thought these organizations were mostly just for those who had completed their service. These organizations serve a valuable purpose by providing commraderie for veterans of all generations and by being active participants in the local community. I think SSgt Joseph Barker makes a good point about social media being a key element in communicating with the younger servicemembers. If we think the VFW is just an "old Soldiers club" then we aren't going to join right away. But if we see what they stand for, what they do and how they do it, then I think you will see greater interest from the younger Soldiers.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 11:39 AM

2014-08-15T11:39:41-04:00

Some more mature women vets saw no reason to join either - at least in my era.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 11:56 AM

2014-08-15T11:56:55-04:00

I feel like Veterans are VERY important. It's sad to see how a lot are treated and how the gov'n cares (or lack thereof) for them. I have such respect for men that were in WWII, Korean, Vietnam. Men in those times served with such valor and honor. There is nothing I love more than hearing a Vets story and what they went through and the courage they had during that time. Not to water down what our troops and military does to this day but I naturally dont feel as proud as maybe I ought. It seems as time goes on the reasoning behind our war, if you can call them that, seems more unsure. Even though I am young in the service, joining a Vet Organization wouldn't be a problem. More as what can I offer in my personal opinion. Not to mention not being eduated on what they do and what is done within them.

Response by SGM Matthew West made Aug 15 at 2014 12:24 PM

2014-08-15T12:24:43-04:00

I would like to say as a Commander of Post 3619 in DeRidder, LA, I had the same issue with getting new younger members involved. So I started my campaign on what is the VFW doing for our Veterans of Today. In the 2012-2013 VFW calendar year, our post of about 326 members (at the time), GAVE BACK $48,000 in one year to our community programs, needy veterans and veteran services. $48,000! I was actually off by about 13,000 when I was doing quick math in my head. That year we made All State, this past year, we were All State and All American, by increasing our membership by 73 people. This was due to bringing in some more active duty members, getting them involved, participating and just being part of our family. Most young people think of the VFW as a place where old guys go to drink beer on Sundays.....does that happen? Well yes, but it is so much more. Membership is about numbers that are represented in Congress when trying to get Veteran Related issues passed. Between all of the organizations, Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion, AMVETS and such, we have a great voice on Capitol Hill.

Response by SPC Michelle M. made Aug 15 at 2014 12:44 PM

2014-08-15T12:44:19-04:00

honestly it never occurred to me to even join.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Aug 15 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-08-15T12:51:42-04:00

For any of you who want to join one of these Veterans Service Organizations (VFW, American Legion, AMVETS, etc..) but, for whatever reason, aren't able to find a local post that you feel is a 'fit' for you, consider joining as a Member at Large through the organizations national website (listings elsewhere in this thread). You can still be part of the numbers that are needed at the National Level to keep those programs alive and well, and you can still transfer from at large to any post, anywhere in the world, should you so desire. Just a thought.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 12:56 PM

2014-08-15T12:56:38-04:00

1SG Okerson,

I always thought that the VFW is for older vets who've completed their service. It never occurred to me to join, or even to look up the eligibility requirements. Thank you for posting this question. Hopefully it will raise people's awareness.

Maybe these organizations should consider marketing on FaceBook or Twitter. There are probably lots of young vets who would join if they were aware these organizations existed.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Aug 15 at 2014 1:36 PM

2014-08-15T13:36:37-04:00

I'm a member of VFW, but I've never set foot inside of a post. It might be time to rectify that.

Response by SFC Edwin Snyder made Aug 15 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-08-15T14:45:59-04:00

I've been a member of the Association of the United States Army (AUSA) for several years and have served on the board of directors for the local chapter on Fort Knox. All of the service organizations are doing important work for veterans, retirees and active duty members. i you have to pick and choose, pick the one that makes the most sense for you. Our numbers have been dwindling which makes our voice at a national level less influential. We need the numbers to make those on capitol hill listen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 3:42 PM

2014-08-15T15:42:53-04:00

Thanks for posting this as I felt this for a long time. My father got me started in the American Legion the day I joined the Army. Right now I don't participate much in my post because I am so far away but I am going to look into my nearby post. I think that there is a stigma that these organizations are something older folks goes to tell old war stories and play bingo. Not too many of us want to talk about our stories in our generation. I am a strong believer that our younger generation should be more involved in an organization like the American Legion or VFW. These organizations can open up new doors for you and give some insight on a better tomorrow, not to mention they are big supporters of local communities.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Aug 15 at 2014 5:21 PM

2014-08-15T17:21:20-04:00

I personally have never seen the need or benefit of joining. You mention passing down stories, but I pass them down to my children, not the people who were also there.

Maybe I just don't know anything about them.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2014 8:43 PM

2014-08-15T20:43:26-04:00

I can speak on my behalf: after coming home from Desert Storm, not one....not one... of the veteran organizations reached out to me. All of my squad members from other states were invited in and had a veteran pay their first year dues. I have at least 15 VFW, American Legions, and AmVets within a 20 mile radius of my address. My picture and information was in the local papers, thanks to my mother. I would have gladly joined any one of them if they would have offered.

I see some the of the younger veterans who are in the organizations are not reaching out to the new "flock". They are turning them into "fraternities" and only want certain drinking buddies in. That's not what they are for. We do need to take back these organizations from these disillusioned few and make them a great place to be and to be proud members again.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Aug 16 at 2014 1:15 AM

2014-08-16T01:15:05-04:00

A lot of young veterans are turned off by the face of the organizations. They appear to only cater to older veterans. Younger organizations are better suited to younger vets because they understand the challenges specifically facing young veterans today. Not only are we facing the usual challenges reintegrating into society, but we also are facing the challenges of our entire generation. We are fresh off an economic crash, and walking away from over a decade of war. The biggest turn off for me was dues. Because of the economy many of us are unemployed long after unemployment insurance runs out and cannot afford any discretionary spending. I was also unaware of the tradition of new vets in the area having their way paid in.

I was personally attracted to IAVA because they speak the language of myself and my peers. They are in the forefront making waves on capital hill, connecting vets across the country, and there are no dues. They have a huge presence on social media, something the VFWs and American Legions do not have. They must cross the generational gap if they want to survive. That means social media, and considering lowering, or even eliminating dues, when at public events the reps need to smile and interact with everyone. I was turned off completely in my hometown when I got cold stares from a veterans organization booth where the rest of the town was celebrating. This experience is not unique. It needs to stop.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 16 at 2014 3:58 AM

2014-08-16T03:58:23-04:00

I had this discussion at our VFW post. The commander is a Vietnam/Gulf War vet. He said that it was all WWII vets when the Vietnam vets were coming back. They had the table seating since the bar was commandeered by the WWII & Korean War vets. In time, they slowly merged but it wasn't until the mid-late 80's that the Vietnam vets had taken the reins. I'm sure each post has it's personalities. AZ is a serious retirement area for veterans, especially in the winter when the "snow birds"(2nd residency is AZ) return to roost. When the older vets return, they all go right up to the bar and stake their claim. It's a cycle. In 20 years, the old timers of OIF/OEF/OND veterans will be bellied up at the bar and shaking hands with the new batch of veterans.....returning from the war with ___________.

Response by CPT Mike M. made Aug 16 at 2014 10:21 AM

2014-08-16T10:21:08-04:00

I think that after Vietnam the Vets didn't have the support that we have coming out of deployments and military service. Not that things are perfect here but we're generally pretty appreciated. Whereas the Vietnam vets needed a place to go and have some support and being able to do so over a couple of beers doesn't hurt.

Response by CPT Yul Eblamo made Aug 16 at 2014 11:48 AM

2014-08-16T11:48:10-04:00

Gen X and Gen Y have Internet and have found a way to be comfortable in being anti social. In addition the VA quickstart and predischarge program addresses most of the new veterans coming out VA needs and kind of eliminates the need for VSO for the veteran coming out. I predict that their will be a surge of Veterans joining these organizations again when they can afford to spend time away from trying to worry about gainful employment. Also back in 2008-2009 I signed up with the VFW in Riverside and they never processed my lifetime membership. At the time I believe it was 500 and now it was raised higher so I gave up on that endeavor because they never even contacted me even after I gave three different ways to do so.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Aug 16 at 2014 12:27 PM

2014-08-16T12:27:58-04:00

All VSO's are designed to help support veterans and the community! I have been a member of the VFW for over 20 years, I just recent joined the American Legion also, for a couple of reasons!!!! The VSO's also represent us in Congress when need be. The more members are in the organizations, the bigger their voice is and can be heard!

I am a past Post Commander of VFW 9985, along with several positions held in the Post and District. I am also currently the Senior Vice Commander for VFW Post 9770 and Post Athletic Officer for American Legion Post 95. My VFW is in Brownstown, IL and the Legion is in Vandalia, IL. Plus, both Posts work together in supporting each other. We do military rites together all the time, and so forth.

One person can make a difference in a Post, also many of the Posts do need younger blood to keep them going.

I believe a common issue with younger veterans, is time! When you are raising a family and working, your time is limited in giving and/or be active in the various VSO's. I know that from experience as many do, as you get older and toss your kids out of the house. Retire do to age and/or disabilities, you find more time to become active.

My VFW Post, we various ages throughout it. At 51, I am the Senior Vice, our Quartermaster is a young lady who is about 27 as a couple of examples. Our Post Color Guard ranges from the ages of 28 to 79.

My American Legion Post is prominently gentlemen over the age of 70 plus. The Senior Vice is 64 and I am 51, he and I are looking at ways to recruit younger membership.

Thing to remember, membership has gone down in many of these organizations due to less qualified members/veterans that can join. After WWII we had millions of veterans who were there, then Korea, and Vietnam, came along right after each other! Which kept membership high, do to the high number of people that served at those times. The draft was in place all those years till 1976.

Since after Vietnam and the end of the draft. There have been a lot less people who have served in the military then before 1976. And many of those that have served and were members of the various VSO's are passing away at a alarming rate now.

Response by SPC Calvin E. McCaslin Jr. made Aug 16 at 2014 1:36 PM

2014-08-16T13:36:03-04:00

There are so many returning vets who are trying to get by with very low pay trying to do the best they can for their families. At our Post the first year is paid by the post. A lot of the Posts have gotten bad raps as Just a place to go drink and try to tell bigger war stories or we were frowned upon by the saying Vietnam was not a war and you did not win it hence V.V.A. or there were some VFW Posts that welcomed us. I first joined down in FT. Hood. Dropped out for many years then rejoined and worked at our weekly Bingo to get my Life Membership. There were some political issues at the hall (members being qualified) so I was very inactive for quite a few years. I transferred to a different Post and finally found my home. I was a member there for a year became Sr. Vice the next election I accepted the Commandership and held that position for 4 years and due to family health issues declined to run again. I have seen so many things the Service Orgs. have done in the past years for the Veterans and the community.
The thing I love the most is WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN ARMS and by working together we will stronger in our fight for Veterans rights and the care we need and were promised.
Cal McCaslin Jr

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 16 at 2014 1:56 PM

2014-08-16T13:56:37-04:00

The VFW and Legion WERE the RallyPoint of their day. RallyPoint is better for me because there is no obligation to respond to comments that are not beneficial to the question on your mind. I quit drinking so it is better for me to use RallyPoint. My post loves their new veterans and by the end of the night, I would have a stack of "chips" (free drink tokens) in front of me.

Response by 1SG John O. made Aug 16 at 2014 2:02 PM

2014-08-16T14:02:46-04:00

WHOO!!! This is awesome!! I appreciate everyone's input and comments! I posted this question, so I could go back to my local Legion and VFW with data and outside POVs. Thank you again for the overwhelming response and different perspectives! Keep doing greatness for our country, and let's take care of each other, in and out of uniform! AATW!!!

Response by PO2 Jennifer Heraty made Aug 17 at 2014 1:47 AM

2014-08-17T01:47:05-04:00

I agree the younger veterans should join the VFW, American Legion, Amvets, ect. I am a proud member along with my husband of VFW 1136 in Wyandotte, MI. I love talking to the Viet. veterans because that us what my dad was. I remember when me and my husband went to the post for the first time to join and pay the dues. The ladies overheard we were married and talked to me about joining the Ladies Aux. They were surprised to find out that I was a Persian Gulf, Iraq, and Afghan veteran. My husband and I love the VFW so much and what they stand for we also joined out districts honor guard. I think that after deployments or when the service member gets out of the military there should be some mention of these great organizations.

Response by SGT G Colson made Aug 17 at 2014 3:04 AM

2014-08-17T03:04:45-04:00

VFW and Legion halls are nothing but barrooms. I don't plan on spending my day drinking, so they have little to offer me. VVA and PVA seem to be focused on actually helping vets navigate the VA, so that's who I support.

Response by SFC Dennis Aalid made Aug 17 at 2014 10:28 AM

2014-08-17T10:28:15-04:00

I belong to American Legion Post 133 in Temple Texas. We have the same Problem! Of the 300+ members, I have yet to see any member under 50 or 55. Most are in their late 60's to 70's and even 80's. I attend every monthly gathering and participate in the monthly meetings every 2-3 months. Our post has a large hall that has Bingo 6 days a week! This provides us with a substantial income to allow us to make significant contributions to community projects. Also, every month we have a free dinner for all active members and Auxiliary members. Our biggest problem is we have a lot of "Stuck in the Dark Ages" members, probably 80 or 85%. We give two scholarships each year to deserving youths in the community. Every monthly meal is prepared and served by a local Organization. We pay them $6 per meal with a guarantee of 300 Meals! Even with all this going on, not one young face has showed up for our monthly gatherings in the 18 months I have been a member of this post. The leadership is trying to get members more involved in getting younger members, but only a handful even want to try. Alslo, the older (70+) members tend to gather in their own little groups and are not very friendly to "Outsiders". If this trend continues, I am afraid that this great organization will die out. Every month we hear of 1 or 2 more members that died! Does anyone have any suggestions on what we can do to reverse this trend? I don't have a younger view point since I will be 69 this fall.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-08-17T11:33:53-04:00

1SG, I am a member of both the VFW and the legion. Sadly, with both organizations, I am simply a dues paying member. With the VFW, the post I belong to essentially fell apart. The leadership did nothing to motivate young troops and former Military to join. All they cared about was getting revenue from renting out the hall. No community programs - nothing. When us "young folk" tried to get things going we were looked at like we were crazy. The legion is pretty much the same. Until the posts decide they want to move into the 21st century a lot of us are simply going to be dues paying members if for no other reason than the pull the organizations have on the hill when Congress starts targeting veterans and retiree benefits...

Response by SGT Keith Rose made Aug 17 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-08-17T11:40:56-04:00

A lot of good points so far!

My experience with the long-standing VSOs have been not positive. A lot of the VSOs have this mentality of they have to be the Knowledge Brokers for all Veterans, and if you show any level of knowledge on benefits or Veterans Services, they cut you loose and essentially shun you. They don't want Veterans who will ask questions and try to grow their own knowledge base. This generation of Veterans have social networking, and the internet in general, at their instant disposal and can seek the information out for themselves. The problem is the VSOs, the VA, and the State Veterans Departments, have all of their information scattered and buried in their sites, making it hard to find all the information.

There are a lot of bloggers (myself included) that have made it their mission to make the information accessible and in one location. Lots of sources have decided to make all the information accessible for everyone, and all in one place. The Old School VSOs don't like it, but they need to wise up to the modern Veteran.

http://www.veteranbenefitresourceguide.com

https://www.facebook.com/VeteranBenefitResource

Veteran Benefit Resource Guide

A topic that was just brought to our attention was Navy Veterans that were exposed to Asbestos and who decades later are diagnosed with Cancer, to include Mesothelioma. For decades, the DOD used Asbestos in many things, and Service Members were exposed, even with documentation that states that the DOD knew the risks to exposure.

Response by SPC Darin Taylor made Aug 17 at 2014 12:20 PM

2014-08-17T12:20:12-04:00

When I became a lifetime member of the DAV and joined DAV Chapter 7 in Jackson, TN I noticed that I was the youngest member of that Chapter at the age of 45. The DAV is a great help to our Disabled Veterans when it comes to VA Disability Claims assistance and to the Veterans in our community. At my first DAV Chapter meeting I was discouraged because there were no younger Veterans at the meeting and felt strongly that changes needed to be made. The only way to make a difference in my newly joined DAV Chapter was to be an actively involved member. I believe that the only way a Veterans Service Organization is going to grow in membership (young or old) is to encourage the members to be an active participant.

Response by CPO Bobby Welch made Aug 17 at 2014 1:37 PM

2014-08-17T13:37:28-04:00

Wow what a wonderful discussion. As the Commander of a VFW that has a very large percentage of OIF/OEF veterans I find this conversation enlightening... as matter of fact of the 11 elected officers of the post 8 of them are OIF/OEF vets, myself included. Many of you stated that you were turned off by the "old timers" unfortunately I have seen this firsthand... I finally found a post that had open arms towards the younger vets. Living south of Chicago I can drive 20 min in any direction and run into at least 10 posts, most of them I am sure are on their last leg. They just don't "get it." As for the younger vets on here that do not belong to a VSO, please join one. Its a numbers game in Washington and its just like in a fight... he who has the most guns, wins... you should see the list of resolutions from the VFW National Convention that the organization is going to push on Congress, many of them are geared toward helping the new generation of returning warriors.

You do not have to belong to a particular post, there is a member at large option. You will receive the same benefits as a member of a post... Car Rental Discounts, Life Insurance, Magazine for the Organization, Etc. but no matter what you have to try, you have to fight for what you want, nothing is free in this life. Do not be discouraged because of one bad experience at a post.

As others have stated in previous comments... I am going to take this thread to a higher level in the organization and hopefully there can be a change that will benefit both parties.

Response by CW2 Scott Williams made Aug 17 at 2014 2:26 PM

2014-08-17T14:26:04-04:00

Most VFW's and legions are big on cantinas and smoking. Dark and not very family friendly. The VSO's are going to have to adapt if they are going to survive. Family centric communities centers are the answer if they wish to continue. After school or even create their own charter school in the post. With the life experience present in our veterans a desire to be above the best and a won't tolerate political correctness attitude, we could become a force for good all over the country. We swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, our battles haven't stopped, they enemy lives amongst us and its creed is progressivism.

Response by CH (LTC) Jim Howard made Aug 17 at 2014 3:52 PM

2014-08-17T15:52:24-04:00

I have been a commander of our local VFW Post 1498 and a member of American Legion Post 1450. In some ways part of the issue in getting younger members is to be found in making the experience in the posts enjoyable. There is a very real generational issue here that will not be solved unless we are willing to listen to young veterans and what they want out of these organizations.

All too often we carry on as if everything is going well, but the truth is that unless we actively engage in bringing in our younger veterans, these organizations will cease to exist.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2014 4:41 PM

2014-08-17T16:41:03-04:00

Look at the comments below and there's your answer. Get over yourself and get on social media. "Adapt and overcome." Remember that gentlemen?

Also, what is the VFW doing to market itself to the gigantic population of female vets from the GWOT?

Honestly, until I saw this RP post, the thought of joining a veterans organization never crossed my mind.

Response by SPC(P) Mark Newman made Aug 17 at 2014 7:55 PM

2014-08-17T19:55:50-04:00

Could it be that in "the old days," people were more interested in face to face friendships?

Also, we don't have to seek privacy to have a beer and a smoke. I think at one time, that was not something done with the family in tow; you needed a special place.

But for some vets, 60 years ago, they HAD to go out for entertainment. There were no 24 hour movie channels, no FOX or CNN around the clock. No VCRs or Internet.

Maybe we need to have more face to face friendships, and fewer facebook to facebook friendships.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 11:04 AM

2014-08-18T11:04:17-04:00

1SG John O. One part is there is no need because veterans of especially the Asian campaigns felt bad upon coming back. Then there is the idea that there are bad feelings towards the services in the last few years.

It seems there are very few warriors for our cause these days and a lot of this work to help each other out is been done by veterans with very little help from Washington where it matters.

It truly is appearance over substance and the effects of that will be felt for a long time...

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 11:05 AM

2014-08-18T11:05:32-04:00

"Fewer" should be used instead of "less" with nouns for countable objects and concepts. Thus, “I should drink less coffee,” but “I should eat fewer doughnuts.”

Response by MSgt Brian Codd made Aug 18 at 2014 11:43 AM

2014-08-18T11:43:48-04:00

Our local VFW in San Angelo, TX, was desperately hurting for members. I talked to some of their senior leaders during an open house they had and they were asking for ideas on what they could do to draw in the younger crowd. My buddy and I shared some ideas, and after talking for a bit, signed up for membership.

I made a few trips to the VFW after I signed up. Each time I was ignored wholesale by the membership at large. It was so bad, that at one point I went up to someone and introduced myself with a big smile. The individual turned his back to me and went back to drinking his beer.

The same thing happened to me in Clovis, New Mexico about 12 years ago. The impression that I was left with is that the older vets wanted our membership... particularly our money... to keep their bar open. Outside of that, they wanted to have nothing to do with us. Several of them made the misinformed point of stating that "our service was nothing like what they had to do when they served"... Why would I want to hang around with people like that?

I'm sure these two examples are not the case with every VFW across the U.S.... but the posts that do act like this are doing your organization at large a terrible disservice.

Response by Sgt S.P. Woodke made Aug 18 at 2014 11:53 AM

2014-08-18T11:53:39-04:00

MOST "clubs" haven't kept up with the times - furniture is extremely outdated...management leave much to be desired...Lighting is horrible...sound systems are substandard (if they have any) ...in the MAJORITY of those "clubs" in which I have visited...Many (not all) extremely set in their ways and unwilling to make the leap into the 21st Century. Don't forget the poorly lit parking lots...BUT...on a Positive note... the liquor prices are still the same as they were back in the 70's.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 11:55 AM

2014-08-18T11:55:16-04:00

I have found that when asked, younger active duty, guard and reserve members readily join The American Legion. There are two issues, the first is getting the word out about what the Legion, VFW and DAV do. The second is to go to where they are, job fairs, local fairs, etc. This past year we did exactly that and we were very successful. There is a perception that they need to volunteer. It would be great to have more workers, but we need to educate the younger generation (I am Lebanon/Grenada era) what our organizations have done, like the Legion was the originator of the GI Bill. I had two younger vets join recently and they are very active, the reason, thier kids have grown and no they are ready to reconnect.

Response by Cpl Harry Larsen made Aug 18 at 2014 12:13 PM

2014-08-18T12:13:10-04:00

There was a stigma attached to being a 'Nam vet back in 1970. I was screamed at by a young woman working at a kiosk in the San Diego airport when I was purchasing smokes and candy bars...I thought she was insane and wondered how she ever got that job working with the public. A few hours later, I was spat upon at SF International airport just as I entered the concourse...I think it was a fellow traveler, I can't be sure...at the time, I thought it was just someone being really, really crude spitting on the carpet...it never occurred to me that it was my Marine Corps uniform that ticked him off...it wasn't till I arrived at my parent's house that I discovered spittle on my back.

I went back to work at the large aerospace company that I'd left two years earlier and there was a LOT of anti-war sentiment in the daily conversations. There was also talk about draft dodgers being allowed amnesty. I ventured an opinion that they should be lined up and machine-gunned. Not exactly politically correct even for those days. I got some weird looks. In order NOT to attract unwanted criticism of my service to my country I decided that I wouldn't talk about it. No one wanted to hear my stories, anyway.

I didn't associate with other servicemen and women because they weren't talking about it either. I didn't even know which ones had served, but I had a pretty good idea who didn't.

I believe there was a general concensus amongst 'Nam vets to put the war and our experiences out of sight and out of mind. I worked hard to keep myself occupied so I wouldn't have to dwell on the past. PTSD made that difficult to do. I thought I must be going crazy because of the rage that erupted (over minor stuff) and the nightmares I experienced.

I was alone and isolated...not a good combination. My self-esteem was at rock bottom. Those first ten years back were NOT good ones.

So...to make a long story longer, why would I attend a VFW or any other organization at that time?

I do attend the annual reunions of my old unit, and find solace and healing there amongst my brothers who understand our predicament.

Response by Sgt Samantha Jee made Aug 18 at 2014 1:32 PM

2014-08-18T13:32:20-04:00

For us in Susanville, Ca, we try to get those from our generation active in the organizations. The only people who move to our town right now are veterans. We mostly go through the community college's gunsmith program. As our VFW commander says (Vietnam era), "If we don't get anyone from your generation active in the post, there won't be anyone to do our funerals and pass on what we stand for."

Response by SrA Holly H made Aug 18 at 2014 2:43 PM

2014-08-18T14:43:15-04:00

I am a recently separated combat veteran and have had the opportunity to visit a few different places here locally in Colorado. I've been to the VFW and the American Legion. When I went, I just felt so out of place. Although I was around fellow combat veterans, I just didn't feel the connection. I couldn't really discuss some of the questions I had regarding the Post 9-11 GI bill or any of the issues we new veterans are facing. I got the typical "Back in my day story..." and as a respectful American citizen I listened to them, of course, but didn't feel that I could relate. It wasn't until I joined Team Rubicon and Team Red White and Blue that I really felt that I was in my league. These are veterans just like me, around my age, and we all have the common goal of maintaining fitness and providing active service back to the community. I think our new veterans feel the same way. We want to still feel like we are in the service even though were not on orders anymore. I respect our older veterans associated with the VFW, American Legion, etc. I just don't think they are up to speed with our new generation of veterans.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2014 5:55 PM

2014-08-18T17:55:31-04:00

I can speak of three examples that I know of:

1. In certain areas - Reading, Massachusetts for example- the Am Leg and VFW have merged, because so many members who had been in from WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam are passing away - that by merging they managed to save the organizations.

2. When I received my VFW card from the Emerson Hovey Post (Portsmouth, NH) in 1991 during the Persian Gulf War - when I came back on leave from the PGW to Portsmouth, and I showed up to say Thanks - I was turned away at the door.

3. And as alot of RP members have seen/and given the info - too many Am Leg and VFW's are seen only as Bars. And we - current vets -aren't willing to spend our days drinking. We have alot more bridges to cross over - i.e. finding new careers, seeing the world as tourists, getting degrees, etc....

Response by CW4 Dan Cady made Aug 18 at 2014 6:21 PM

2014-08-18T18:21:57-04:00

In 1972 when I returned from Vietnam, I took 3 vet buddies to the VFW in Omaha, NE and we joined. No one spoke to us after induction & we felt the same way you folks are feeling! Know what? We went and recruited 5 younger members each and they found 2 or 3 each and within a very short period, the Vietnam era vets out numbered and became the Post leadership. We did then and will always respect those that came before us.
Now, retired and at 67 a veteran of the far and middle east, I encourage you all to promote your vets organization by being interactive and show some leadership. Step up! I did and have been an active American Legion and VFW member for 42 years.

Response by SPC Gareth Mannion made Aug 18 at 2014 7:20 PM

2014-08-18T19:20:42-04:00

I was in a VFW for a few years and never felt connected. I was even alienated by some of the Vietnam Vets. I tried again years later and attended a meeting but there was no private area. I had my son with me who was 12 and he was forced to be it in a tiny office for the meeting. I felt uncomfortable there as everyone was drinking after. If there was a 'dry' VFW, I might have tried again. The world is changing but the Vfws are not changing with it.

I am a Desert Storm veteran and even find now that us Desert Stormers are not on the sam par as OIF/OEF veterans. I joined Team RWB and run with a group weekly

Response by SSgt James Guy made Aug 18 at 2014 10:32 PM

2014-08-18T22:32:29-04:00

I remember when I came home from Nam out VFW and AL in my home town did not want us. We were druggies and baby killers. It took me 30 years before I joined anything. Maybe the younger vets have the same type of disconnect.

Response by LCDR Bart Denny made Aug 19 at 2014 6:23 AM

2014-08-19T06:23:31-04:00

Why don't people join? Well, actually, an older (than me, at least!) member of the American Legion recruited me in California. I was in uniform and at the exchange. Thought that was great! Well, I moved on to Florida (where I retired) and the post in my town called to make contact. The fellow calling said no drinking or smoking at the post, and I said that's great, exactly what I'm looking for. We talked a little about my career. I said I had enlisted in the Navy and then (and here's where the guy's tone changed) I said I had earned my commission after 11 years, and now I was an O-4. "Oh, an officer." And so, I'm thinking "really?" Never mind that I'm a veteran of OIF, not just hundreds of miles offshore, but right up the river in Iraq. So, I figured if a bunch of old guys long gone from the military are gonna be uncomfortable in the presence of an officer (i.e. can't get over it), no need to ruffle feathers. Oh yeah, after I retired, I figured there was probably no need to assume that was going to change...I don't need that whole "officer-enlisted thing" going after I retire. I put my pants on same way as anyone else. So I still haven't renewed my membership and have found other volunteer causes that can use my talents and don't ostracize me because of my career path. Other than when I present my retiree ID at the base gate to go to the commissary, I am just "Bart," thank you very much.

Response by Capt Andre Toman made Aug 19 at 2014 11:43 AM

2014-08-19T11:43:54-04:00

When I joined the VFW it was like an interrogation to prove that I served overseas. Maybe this is an issue the VFW is facing--individuals that didn't serve overseas trying to join. It was really strange, and it left a sour taste in my mouth. Needless to say, I wasn't very involved.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2014 12:36 PM

2014-08-19T12:36:44-04:00

This is a good thread and I wanted to throw in my two cents worth. I am a County Veteran Service officer in South Florida. I am a life member of the DAV and a member of the local American Legion. I do several speaking engagements at various organization posts (AMVETS, VVA, VFW, DAV...) a month throughout my county. I see an unfortunate trend in all the service organization posts I visit. They all seem to be stuck in the 60's. All the posts I have visited are dark, dank, filled with cigarette smoke and resemble a corner bar from 1967. If we (I share some responsibility) expect the younger generation of Veterans to become a part of our organizations we need to reflect their point of view. A post needs to look more like a sports bar and less like a hunting lodge. Additionally the organizational bickering needs to stop, there are over 400 Veteran service originations out there and they all want their peace of the pie. DAV folks say they are better than the VFW, VFW folks say they are better than the VVA, the VVA says they...well, you get the idea. We need to unify! There are 65 million Veterans in the US, all the Veterans organizations combined spent less lobbying congress last year than the NRA (4.5 mil members). No slight on the NRA, I'm a member by the way. Gun enthusiasts have a unified voice in Washington, Veterans do not. That's why gun control advocates have so much trouble pushing their agenda, and Veteran issues get lip service. Younger Veterans understand this and want a real voice not a hodgepodge of rhetoric. Times change and our Veteran organizations need to embrace change if they are to attract the younger Veterans. Sapper 5, Out.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Aug 19 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-08-19T13:13:36-04:00

1SG I had considered joining my local VFW until I had a bad experience with the one nearest me. I was going through my med board and was advised to get with them to review my case and either further it or recommend what I could do to get my percentage up. I drove there, met a few people (very nice folks), and went home with the phone numbers I had to use for contacting them. I ended up calling the entire lodges phone directory to include the bar to get an answer. In that time, my board was coming up and no contact from anyone there at that lodge. So I said forget it, and Google became my best friend and what I needed done was done...by me (which was great. Learned something in the process). Two months after my board was over, I got a call from the lodge and it was someone I left multiple messages with, and he was clueless as to what I wanted done, how to do it, and call someone else. I told him no need and thank you (no point in being rude) and went on my way. I don't hold THE VFW in a bad light because one of their lodges didn't have their stuff together, but for right now I don't see me joining because of that instance which I'm sure I'm not alone with. But again there are some GREAT individuals there and I won't take anything away from them.

Response by SSG Don Waggoner made Aug 19 at 2014 1:36 PM

2014-08-19T13:36:33-04:00

1SG John O - Your comment doesn't make any sense. "There is no need because veterans ... felt bad...." I never joined any of these organizations for a number of reasons, but they do serve a purpose for some people. I agree, however, that the organizations seem to cater to older veterans and inhabit smoke filled bars. That is a turn off to the younger veterans.

Response by SSG Don Waggoner made Aug 19 at 2014 1:41 PM

2014-08-19T13:41:41-04:00

I know some do not think this replies to the original question, but I disagree- It should be "fewer" younger veterans, not "less" younger veterans.

Non-Coms sometimes get the reputation that they can't run with officers because they aren't as smart. The poor use of grammar doesn't help to make that impression go away.

See my opinion directly on point below.

Response by LTC Alan Moore made Aug 19 at 2014 1:54 PM

2014-08-19T13:54:26-04:00

Why are LESS younger veterans....
Maybe because they finished high school and learned that the proper word here is FEWER and they don't want to associate with a bunch of guys who never learned to speak English correctly! (Less refers to degree, as in "less likely to join because of poor grammar. Fewer refers to number, as in "fewer and fewer young vets will want to associate with older vets who never learned how to speak correctly!"

Just sayin' .......

Response by PO1 Daniel Hazley made Aug 19 at 2014 4:36 PM

2014-08-19T16:36:40-04:00

Real sore subject with me. I did choose to get involved with a VFW Post in Philadelphia. When I joined there we attracted maybe 8 vets to a meeting. I was recruited to immediately get involved as an officer because the older guys just didn't want the leadership role anymore. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. My first initiative was to get existing members back involved and bring new members in. man was that met with skepticism and insult! They had the good ole boys network in place, non veteran social members felt threatened. Us "outsiders" (veterans) were actually told we weren't welcomed, that this was "their" neighborhood place and since we didn;t live in "their" neighborhood, we had no say in operations. I knew it was time to move on when I felt compelled to carry a loaded handgun to protection. For thsoe who want to to know...Bridesburg-Lawton VFW Post 2 in Philadelphia.

Response by PO3 Jody Wangen made Aug 20 at 2014 10:08 AM

2014-08-20T10:08:16-04:00

how about making female vets welcome? we are veterans too!!! we don't want to join the wife's club. plenty of us out there, but everyone acts like we don't count. I notice all you posters are male.

Response by PO1 Daniel Hazley made Aug 20 at 2014 1:21 PM

2014-08-20T13:21:58-04:00

Here are some other issues I've had with the VFW. I'm divorced now, been with the same lady for years, but she doesn't qualify without a "marriage certificate". Times have changed, people aren't getting married, vets are gay, there are same sex couples. Opens up a huge can of worms doesn't it? The VFW is also bogged down with rules and by-laws that are interpreted differently by district, state, and national. Personally, I don't like the cover, the use of the term "comrade" (makes me think of the USSR), the regular reference to the bible while not everyone believes, OR they may be our a different persuasion. The numerous generational gaps are a recipe for failure. Finally, I found VFWs are very "clickish", the fact that offices are only elected for a year proves counterproductive as the body simply has to delay positive progress and rally the troops to "vote you out".

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 20 at 2014 1:59 PM

2014-08-20T13:59:28-04:00

I feel that social media has definitely impacted veteran organizations as vets can now stay connected to the guys and gals in their former units via digital means. Former military will always gravitate towards other former members but with smart phones and the internet the days of sitting around and telling war stories are unfortunately becoming a thing of the past. Rallypoint.com and the like are a prime reason but also there is a fundamental change in the way the younger generations communicate in general. There's no need to gather because of advancements in the way we now communicate. Also there are more organizations out there. I myself have reached out to DAV and The Soldier's Project based on their missions.

Response by SSG Kevin Crozier made Aug 20 at 2014 7:45 PM

2014-08-20T19:45:01-04:00

They are not joining the VFW or DAV as they are having everything handed to them and have never had to fight for it. All the previous veterans have done the fighting. They don't realize that if they don't join that once the older vets pass on, there will be no one left to continue to fight for veterans

Response by SSG Kevin Crozier made Aug 20 at 2014 7:47 PM

2014-08-20T19:47:40-04:00

They are not joining the VFW or DAV as the kids these days are being given everything free. They have no idea or respect for the fight that previous vet have done to bring these good benefits to all vets. They will be sorry when the older vets begin to pass on and no one is around to continue the fight.

Response by SPC(P) Geoffrey Fansher made Aug 20 at 2014 11:18 PM

2014-08-20T23:18:28-04:00

Maybe this is too broad of a statement but, maybe because they're just recognized as a bar? I mean, I toss one back every now and again but, I'd say I've been to a bar/pub maybe twice in the last year. I'd be willing to bet a dime to a dollar that the perception of a VFW is a bar where you're allowed to smoke inside (at least the one I was a member of). I'm not saying that there is an abundance (or any) money to change this but...if it was more of a community/family based center that offered food (and not just frozen pizzas), games, entertainment, etc....there would be more interest. I just don't know that there's anything that can be done to make that big of a change within a short amount of time. As veterans/people/generations have changed, these facilities have stayed the same.

Response by SPC Jeff Martin made Aug 21 at 2014 11:22 AM

2014-08-21T11:22:54-04:00

Been out 20 years. Never been to one. What is the difference between the organizations? I drive by one every day but have never stopped by.

Response by SGT James P. Davidson, MSM made Aug 21 at 2014 1:43 PM

2014-08-21T13:43:55-04:00

I delayed joining the VFW for a few years after returning home. My father was a 'Nam Vet. He was an alcoholic. I observed the majority of Vets at the VFW were alcoholics. I didn't want to join their ranks and be the 'young alcoholic in training'. I rarely go to my local VFW, though when I moved across the country, I did transfer my membership.

I don't have a lot of time to spend there, and bingo isn't exactly an exciting event for me. There is little imagination in the halls of the VFW Posts. I believe there is no attraction. I believe the VFW is not reaching out, but rather waiting for the younger, new Vets to walk in.

I am glad that I did join, and have spent time with some of my predecessors, however, if for no other reason than to let them have someone to talk to, or to learn something about our nation's past.

But again - for the younger crowd, I don't see that it is attractive to them at all.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 22 at 2014 5:11 PM

2014-08-22T17:11:36-04:00

Old school organizations need to adapt with the times or they risk being replaced by social media savvy organizations.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Aug 22 at 2014 5:16 PM

2014-08-22T17:16:36-04:00

I think it has to do with technology. Veterans of older wars didn't have the internet, so keeping up with old buddies was probably a lot more difficult. Now, with things like Facebook, you can friend all your buddies and essentially keep tabs on them forever without any effort. Also, young veterans join a lot of online military groups as opposed to physical groups, and that's where they have their discussions and swap stories.

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Aug 22 at 2014 5:21 PM

2014-08-22T17:21:49-04:00

Another theory I have, though this is more conjecture, is that veterans of this generation's wars may feel like they don't "rate" being in a class of veterans of Vietnam or Korea. In boot camp, we learn all about the Marine Corp's famous battles of old: Frozen Chosin, Hue City, Okinawa, and many more. We're told that the Marine Corps has never taken home more glory than it did then. Now, with the way today's wars are fought, there very, very few big battles. Most combat that today's veterans see is short contacts with few enemy combatants. And I think that this may lead some veterans to feel "unworthy", especially in the presence of Marines who can recall fighting off hordes of Viet Cong and conducting real bayonet assaults against the enemy.

Response by MSG Sommer Brown made Aug 24 at 2014 4:52 PM

2014-08-24T16:52:50-04:00

I joined an American Legion and was very disappointed. The only thing these guys wanted to do was drink. Before, During and after the meetings and most events were centered around drinking. I also continued to see the "good ole boy" system in place. There were a few that were in the know and the rest of us didn't have a clue what was going on and they could not remember my name no matter how many times I told them. I was very disappointed in the organization. Now that is only one; I am sure there are some good ones out there.

Response by CPO Bobby Welch made Aug 25 at 2014 8:14 PM

2014-08-25T20:14:42-04:00

I love following this discussion, I wish all the nay-sayers and skeptics could come visit my post... sure we have a "day crowd" or as I like to call them the "usual suspects"... but we have a side that not many get to see unless they come to meetings... and that is the face of the younger veterans who are eager to serve, even with them there are a couple "usual suspects" who just want to drink. but for the most part we are active in the community. We have an annual picnic that is FREE to anybody who wants to come, it's our way of giving back to the community, bean bags every Tuesday in the summer, we donate more Turkeys than I can count for needy families on Thanksgiving, Christmas with Santa for needy children, and we just put together our own Co-Rec softball team composed of members, auxiliary members, and spouses. We are the youngest (collective age wise) in the District and we are fiercely proud of that fact.

So this is an open invitation if any of you are ever on the south side of Chicago, look up VFW Post 450, 118th and Cicero, ring the doorbell and ask for Chief...

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Veterans-of-Foreign-Wars-Post-450/ [login to see] 77128

Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 450

Response by CPO John Miller made Aug 26 at 2014 12:24 PM

2014-08-26T12:24:41-04:00

I think there is a big "generation gap" issue with some posts. My son and I are the youngest members by far (I'm 50 he is 24). The next youngest members are the Korean Vets!

Another issue is the requirements for joining. I was allowed to join the Amer. Leg. because I was in during the Grenada incident. I could not join the VFW until after I deployed to Iraq. By then I had been in for 14 years. Other members may have served 3-4 years (some even less) but it was during a time of war and they were members. This isn't the case for the younger OIF/OEF vets but they have created their own organizatios for vets with the same service/conflict circumstances.

I personally know many Vietnam vets who don't wantto be a part of any VSOs. For whatever reason - there is a big population we need to reach out to. I am a member of the Legion Riders and they are a unique group. Vets of all ages and the Auxilary and SALs are all EQUAL members and the meetings are held with all members - dues go into one pot. At my local post the Legionaires are all male between 90 and 75 (except my son and I) and the Auxilary is it's own entity. Each does their own events and the dues are seperate. My wife and I are more active in the Legion Riders because she feels more accepted as a member - not an "auxilary".

Response by CPL Tom Patrick made Aug 27 at 2014 5:56 PM

2014-08-27T17:56:58-04:00

every time i see a VFW table or person out side a store,its always older guys.We need to project the VFW as a group for all ages put guys out there who are younger give the younger crowed 3 months free to see what it is all about i love the VFW.the old war stories and the brother hood/sister is amazing.to be able to talk to some one who has been and done what you have is the best type of release. I am praying that we get more guys involved

Response by SrA Joshua Hagler made Aug 27 at 2014 11:03 PM

2014-08-27T23:03:33-04:00

As a young vet, I will say this, a lot of us young guys and girls have never heard of these groups. I haven't joined any myself, mostly because I can not afford the dues if any. From my experience a lot of these organizations do not advertise very well and also to be honest, I have no idea what they do. I have seen lately a more representative push from these groups in government, however these groups do not come to any separation classes or out-processing briefs of separating military members. For my own experience, I have always felt I do not belong to any of these groups even with my trips overseas. I have since changed that feeling but I know a lot of my brothers and sisters feel that way.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2014 2:59 AM

2014-08-28T02:59:53-04:00

I am a Life Member of VFW Post 7686 Alamogordo NM. I have served as the Post Surgeon as well as the State Communications Officer. I am proud of my affiliation with the VFW. I have personally known and worked with Past VFW C&C Tommy Tradewell who is a fantastic resource and a wealth of knowledge. With that said I too have experienced less than warm receptions at several posts around the country. When I first moved to South Carolina for instance i decided that I was going to transfer my membership to one of the posts here in the Columbia Area so that I could stay involved, I wanted to make a difference. The post I joined sadly was the Poster Child of the Old Veteran Organization Stereo Type. They were barely open, they could barely get enough people to show up to the meetings to have a meeting (including the officers). They were completely stuck in the past and no amount of prodding, talking, kicking or bitching would get the powers that be at that post to do much of anything. For God sake they are closed on Memorial day and Veterans day.Out of the 20 or so people that you could find sitting at the bar maybe one or two would get up and introduce themselves to someone they hadn't met. If a young person came in most would turn away and huddle together so they could pretend they didn't exist.

I bring this up because this is one of the big things that is broke with these organizations.

In contrast at My Post 7686 which I transferred my membership back to after my experiences here.

You walk in and half the bar at least says hi, the Canteen Manager comes around from her perch at the end of the bar with a smile and a hug (Miss you Miss Judy), Checks your ID and sets you down at the bar. once you are seated half a dozen old codgers scoot over and shake your hand, introduce themselves and offer to buy you a drink. After 1700 the Air Force rolls in from Holloman AFB and the party starts old vets and young vets alike milling around, listening to the Juke Box which Plays everything From Hank, Willie and Wailin to Eminem, Disturbed,and Lynkin Park. By 1900 there is a band or Karaoke setting up and folks are getting on the dance floor.

The meetings are generally Standing Room only cause the old guys get there first and either take the chairs or come in riding their own. ALL have equal voice no matter where you served, or what branch you come from. We are all Comrades.

I am not saying that 7686 is perfect I am not saying that we don't have tiffs and arguments but push comes to shove we are a family and all are welcome. This is what these organizations should be. For the older generation of vets to behave the way they did at the Post in SC is pitiful and that is the very reason that they are on their way to closing their doors for good.

We have a Choice to make as Veterans do we want to allow these great organizations to crumble and die? Do we want to lose the resource, the advocacy and the proud tradition? If not then we need to do something all of us together Old Vets and New. Old Vets you need us, sadly ya'll are dying out at an alarming rate, it is time to pass the torch while you can still provide Mentoring and guidance. Quit resisting the change that needs to happen, add some new music to the JukeBox, get a FaceBook Page (find a high speed you vet to run it and keep it up to date... give him/her a job make'em feel included) Plan Family nights (Wii Bowling is always a hit) you have to give the Young Vets with Families a way something to bring them in, Have Dinners, adopt your local National Guard or Reserve Units, Be there when they leave, be there when they come home and every minute in between.Young Vets, Get involved! Be respectful and soak up every bit of knowledge and wisdom you can squeeze out of those crusty old guys. Bring your Ideas, don't be sacred they may be old and cranky but 9.9 out of 10 have hearts of gold and more knowledge and experience in their bald gray heads then you will every have.

Bottom Line Folks We got to work together in our present to preserve our future.

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made Sep 2 at 2014 9:19 AM

2014-09-02T09:19:25-04:00

Everytime I go to visit one the older "FARTS" just do not care to spend time with the younger VETS. I do say that some , not all the younger VETS have a large chip on their shoulders like the older VETS own them something. In my opinion the only thing they are owed is a kick in the ASS and thank the older VET for being there first.

Response by SFC Adam Potter made Sep 2 at 2014 2:58 PM

2014-09-02T14:58:17-04:00

It is very important that Veterans join these organizations, as they do lobby for Veterans rights and try to preserve our benefits. If they go away, it is one less voice for Veterans in D.C.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made Sep 2 at 2014 5:20 PM

2014-09-02T17:20:28-04:00

To be 100% honest. I just don't have time to dedicate to that. A lot of younger guys like me, we get out and go to school. School takes up a bit of time.

Response by SGT Christopher Mays made Sep 6 at 2014 9:42 PM

2014-09-06T21:42:26-04:00

I am an Iraq War veteran. From my personal experience, It can be cultural awareness. Some posts treated me well with welcome arms, others did not let me enter the post even with a paid membership card. I decided to complain to the state chapters of the American Legion and Veteran of Foreign Wars. He said that Vietnam vets did the same thing to World War II vets. Also there were racial tensions during the Vietnam War. Some Vietnam Vets may have not gotten over that. The other reason I was told, was that because of low membership, they begin to accept non veterans to fund the post. The non veterans sometimes themselves are not culture aware of not only the military lifestyle but racial inclusiveness of the military. I chose to become a member of IAVA. Race is less of an issue.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Sep 11 at 2014 1:00 PM

2014-09-11T13:00:22-04:00

I think you can find the answer pretty clear below. It may not be the case with EVERY vfw and AL, but there is obviously enough spread out to give the impression that it's just a bunch of older people drinking every night at a private bar.

For me, it is a very simple answer.I do not share any common interests or experiences with the people that I know to be at my local VFW and AL. Iraq and Afghanistan are very different from previous wars, and its hard to relate I find. I also am trying to do more and accomplish more with my life than just being a vet. As such The veterans I choose to surround my self with are doing the same.

If VFW and AL want to survive, they need to revamp their mission and goals to better align with current vets. My experience is that vets of today want to get up and DO things. Look at the success of the WWP programs.

That is just my two cents. Again, I can't say this is how it is for EVERY VFW and AL group, but it is certainly the extent of my experience.

Response by SSG Joe Stone made Sep 17 at 2014 11:33 AM

2014-09-17T11:33:35-04:00

I am the J.V. Commander for VFW Post 2554, and there are three things that we've done to help boost membership for our younger generations. One, is by having the post and it's members heavily promote VFW functions through our website and various social media outlets and show the importance of maintaining camaraderie with vets in the community. Two, get our members involved in various activities allowing them to engage the community (talking to kids at schools, participate in special local events, sponsor events, community cleanup, etc.). Three, not running a post "watering hole" and promoting the very idea that our organization is a bunch of old drunks telling war stories. It basically boils down to having a good, active public relations program.

Response by SGT Paul Lidzy made Sep 18 at 2014 1:40 PM

2014-09-18T13:40:47-04:00

I don't know if any other veterans have come across this, but one reason I haven't joined any of these great organizations is that a lot of veterans before the Gulf War don't believe we belong there. Even though it is a ""foreign war", we are generally looked down upon as inferior veterans. I do agree with you in the aspect that our stories should be shared.

Maybe I just had a bad experience and should try again somewhere else, since I now live in San Antonio, TX. But like I said, this was one reason I hadn't tried again.

Response by SSgt Henry Phillips made Sep 21 at 2014 1:11 PM

2014-09-21T13:11:46-04:00

I live in Nevada and hold membership in the VFW, American Legion, DAV and AMVETS. There are a variety of reasons young veterans like myself do not join the veteran groups.

The first is image. Yes a lot of the general public, not just the younger veterans, have the mental image of old guys drinking beer around a bar, feeling sorry for themselves and trading "woe-is-me" stories.

The second is a lot of the individual posts do not try to engage the younger veterans. There are a few reasons for this but the main one is a generational gap. This gap causes a break in communications. Older veterans do not now how to reach out to younger veterans. Case in point I am the Nevada "Student Veteran of America" Liaison. The gentlemen I took over for is over 30 years older than myself. He said he could not do the job anymore because he couldn't connect to the student. There were too many gaps for him to make up: age, military experience, etc.

The third is young veterans left the military for a reason. The last thing they want is to see the same old tired people they left in the military. They want to get their own identity and develop who they are. Joining a veterans group for some feels like putting a uniform back on. The rules, the meetings, the uniforms is a huge turn off for some.

The fourth is sometimes they do join an organization and they quickly leave. Why? Poor leadership and poor communication. I know a lot of posts who are worried more about making "All American" than making sure they are helping veterans. You have the personality clashes, the politics, the "we've always done it this way, it doesn't matter what the rule book says" attitude.

These are just four reasons but it makes it extremely tough for us to stay connected with the veteran groups, turning them to help and just hanging out with other veterans in general. Hope this helps.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 22 at 2014 10:23 PM

2014-09-22T22:23:04-04:00

I don't know about VFW's as a whole but I chose not to join the local chapter for several reasons. Mostly, they have a pretty rough reputation for DUI's, sexual assaults/harassment, and corruption. I think they are working to repair that but for now, it's not something I want my name to be associated with.

Response by SSgt Alan Pruitt made Sep 23 at 2014 1:09 PM

2014-09-23T13:09:42-04:00

"For the Few, By the Few" seems to be the modus operandi for the veterans service organizations that I have affiliated with in the past. In my experience, I am never taken seriously as a "real" veteran because all of my service was Cold War Era. Mind you, I am a lifetime member of DAV because of the awesome advocacy they provided on my VA claim (ultimately 100% service-connected) - but that love did not translate to a good experience at the local level - because I don't "look" disabled from any combat related experience. Similar experience with two different AL Post. Nothing but negative experiences for me with the mostly alcohol related events and non-stop chain smoking members. And don't get me started with the mainly arch-conservative politics with the national magazines I receive - they don't make it out of the post office. In my town (Yuma AZ) - the visceral and constant negative comments about POTUS as our Commander-in-Chief is another reason for me to distant myself from an obviously polarized veteran community. So, in short, I do not believe that most existing veterans organizations support a healthy lifestyle and the politics of membership does not appreciate multi-generational service members who proudly served. It seems that if you did not "suffer" enough during your time in service - then you do not rate membership. I watch national representatives begging for memberships at national events from existing veterans and its quite clear that they only want to generate membership revenue stream to fill the coffers and bragging rights about how many members are on-board (politically) for their lobbying efforts. That is a major reason why I throw my support and participation behind Team Red White & Blue and Team Rubicon. It's "sweat equity" that is behind these TRWB & TR memberships - not politics or out-of-touch members who think endless "meat draws" and "fish frys" announcements are going to sustain veterans and their interests.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 12:35 PM

2014-10-22T12:35:39-04:00

I know this thread is a bit old but here goes my 2 cents. We have an American Legion post in my little town but you never, ever see anybody there. I used to hear that they did a monthly dance or hoedown or whatever but it didn't seem to be my kind of crowd. The one or two vets I've run into that were members were older than my parents. I didn't feel any connection.

It reminded me of when you go to the VA hospital for whatever reason (I've been there a lot for my mother who is a retired vet) and you see all the old timers wearing pins on their hats and vests or what have you. It is just a different culture than people from my generation and younger. Maybe I'll have to join via the national chapter or something.

I do understand the responsibility to support our service organizations but can't seem to find one that would be comfortable. It's like finding yourself in the Chief's club somehow as a junior enlisted...you have a lot of respect for them but aren't comfortable buying a round.

Response by PO1 Brian Wool made Oct 22 at 2014 6:22 PM

2014-10-22T18:22:24-04:00

What I don't get is why IAVA needed to be stood up? Was there that much of dissimilarity between them and the VFW? And why is there one? I have cousin pushing boots at GL currently and he's with the VFW.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 2:06 PM

2014-10-27T14:06:55-04:00

1SG Okerson, we've had several Ages of (military) Fraternalism, mainly after the Civil War, WWI, WWII. We'll skip Masonic and other groups, including Hereditary that are mostly, but not all, non-military for the time being. The first wave after the Civil War was a mixed bag of orgs including GAR, and the infamous KKK which included many veterans from the South. The second wave saw creation of the new veterans groups such as the American Legion,VFW, etc. . Those groups and others increased their memberships during and after WWII, Vietnam. Many of the groups served very useful purposes to help veterans and their communities, much like other civic groups. Some got further away from the main line and focused on gambling, and dancing or other member desires that were affordable. Not many people dancing to swing these days. Many groups did not have legacy plans, and made it difficult for younger members to assimilate, hurting the orgs in the long term. The proliferation of other choices and many other entertainment and civic group options tended to reduce the available membership pool. At this time, many orgs are in decline from a shortage of eligible members to generational change in choices and attitudes about what such membership really means...or should. Many civic and hereditary orgs such as SAR, DAR, War of 1812, Colonial Wars, and Patriotic Orgs such as the Boy Scouts also perpetually face the contraction of members for a variety of reasons, including attacks on conservative doctrines, and must renew their efforts to find their own replacements by inviting people to join, making it friendly, happier, more welcoming and meaningful.

Response by SN Jennifer M. made Oct 29 at 2014 4:26 AM

2014-10-29T04:26:30-04:00

I get the stereotypical thing. Here is the spouse application! Um. No. But another thing is that I move so often. So it is hard to be involved in something if we are constantly moving. I guess I am more involved in organizations that are more a reflection of myself. I am with F7 Group (female vets), The Mission Continues (Post 9/11 vets) and some other organizations as well.

Nothing against VFW or other organizations as such... I am just not a smoker. I come out of there smelling like an ashtray. The people are great! Just don't like the smoke. And feeling like I am not a veteran since I am female. Does that make sense?

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Oct 29 at 2014 10:12 AM

2014-10-29T10:12:16-04:00

I will say for me the experience left much to be desired. I joined both my Local VFW and American Legion and found that they really didn't do anything other than the Thursday night bingo, Friday night band/drinking.

You hear all about the aging membership in these organizations but it doesn't seem they offer the type of activities our current war veterans seek, and yes SGM West I understand joining for numbers in congress etc. and that is why I am still a member of both but I haven't attended a meeting at either in over 2 yrs.

Response by Sgt Israel Zinns made Oct 31 at 2014 4:17 PM

2014-10-31T16:17:05-04:00

This article sums up, pretty well actually, my view on this issue. The VA assistance is a great benefit, but my need to be mostly self-sufficient makes it useless for me. Nothing against either organization, but I prefer to do that type of paperwork myself and if I have questions the website has tons of answers and I don't mind picking up the phone to call the VA if I need to. The change that the article describes some posts are doing sounds like a great idea, but I hope it doesn't come at the cost of running the older veterans out.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/19/younger-veterans-bypass-vfw-american-legion-for-se/?page=all

Younger veterans bypass VFW, American Legion for service, fitness groups

Kate Hoit served eight years in the Army Reserves, including a tour in Iraq, but when she tried to join her local Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, someone asked whether she needed an application for military spouses instead.

Response by PO2 Lynn Iron made Nov 12 at 2014 6:15 PM

2014-11-12T18:15:11-05:00

I live in Durango, Colorado and go to school at Fort Lewis College where I am currently the FLC Veterans club president. I have been working with the VFW once a year to borrow flags and things. I am trying to bring the Veteran students, DAV and VFW together. It is hard for me because they do not show up to many events. I cancelled taps on campus this year in hopes that my fellow student vets would show up and participate in the parade. Nothing... I think for the next event, I will have it catered at the VFW and maybe it will work out! Bar, pool table, outside sitting area and friends! Never know, but I will give it a try. VFWs, find the President of the Veterans club at all schools and go from there! Cater a free meal event also with posters that are young and fresh in order to help bring the Veteran students to your post.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 5:00 PM

2014-12-01T17:00:42-05:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member and MSG Wade Huffman and I discussed this in a previous thread, but I had issues with older members thinking I should be in an auxiliary when I'm a veteran.

Response by SSG Joe Stone made Dec 15 at 2014 3:15 PM

2014-12-15T15:15:53-05:00

I'm a Post 9/11 veteran and J.V. Commander for VFW Post#2554, a small rural VFW Post located in Sultan, WA. In my opinion, the one thing that’s holding a lot of these organizations back is not being relatable, relevant, or modern in their means of communication. One of the ways we addressed this at my post is through the use of Social Media on top of our normal community engagement –VSO’s first and foremost must be involved in their community-even when it’s not veteran related to show that no one cares more for their community than a veteran. These organizations must encourage their members to volunteer and attend meetings with Boy and Girl Scout groups, go to schools or the boys and girls club and talk with the kids after school, attend City Council Meetings, Town Hall meetings, Block Watch, etc. Then think of the use of social media as a force multiplier on top of these great things they are doing, and cost nothing to implement. It’s an excellent tool where you are able to advertise the organizations activities, recognize the efforts of folks in your community, and communicate with those specific demographics that will give you the best results. I’m sorry, but the local newspaper and phone book are not as relevant in the internet age. When implementing a social media program, organizations should select one or two members to manage and take ownership of those accounts and other members of the post can help as well by liking and sharing content with their friends and in local groups. All of which will help you increase your reach. In a town of less than 5,000 we are able reach around 500-800 people a week by posting relevant and sometimes comical content related to being in the service. At the moment, there is no better way to engage the community and focus your efforts. Since I started our posts Facebook page last year, we've gained 10 new members (all post 9/11) and our community events have doubled and tripled their attendance from years past. Our post has gone from completely irrelevant in our community to a pillar organization thanks to efforts of our members and the tools that social media provides. There are number of other issues that I could touch on as well that would make VSO's a more desirable thing to join, but this post is getting lengthy as it is.

Response by MSG D Cebo made Dec 16 at 2014 9:30 AM

2014-12-16T09:30:35-05:00

Simple some of them Just Simple don't know, all this Organization need to be included as a part of pay day activities or NCODP like American Legion and VFW they do lots of fund raising and pay for Soldier to go to Army Balls etc, etc

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 4:50 PM

2014-12-16T16:50:57-05:00

Honestly, I recently returned my membership to The American Legion due to the fact of little activity that I was aware of. There was little way of finding out what was forth coming and I always had to push to find any information of what was going on. Most of the existing leadership refuse to let anyone of the newer generation take over and run with ideas. But this was only my experience.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 4:10 PM

2014-12-29T16:10:54-05:00

It's simple. There is not enough advertisement about the organizations. I never knew anything about them until about 10 years ago. I heard about the VFW through a friend and did some research and then joined. It's a simple process, but the word has to get out there what these organizations do for us. Most think it's all about cheap drinks, but they don't realize how much clout they have on capital hill.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 4:16 PM

2014-12-29T16:16:53-05:00

We do tons of marketing for brands targeting 18-35 year old demos. The problem is huge and it boils down to three trends:

1. Younger generations aren't joining organizations that depend on physical interaction at the rate they were before. Competition for attention/time is HIGH.
2. The #s of vets now are just not there as a % of society to replenish those ranks in the numbers they were during Vietnam and Korea.
3. The younger generations don't see the benefit of joining these organizations.

They'll need to modernize their marketing methods and brand, otherwise, sadly they will disappear.

Response by Sgt Junyer Knight made Dec 29 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-12-29T18:47:10-05:00

When I was on a cross-country bicycle ride for a children's charity and walked into a VFW, AL, or DAV lodge I was usually met with a lot of silent stares from the bar. It seemed like people who had given up were the ones hanging out in these establishments. (NOT ALL, there are definitely some great lodges out here!)

With programs like Team Rubicon around who wants to waste their time in a bar?

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2014 4:28 AM

2014-12-30T04:28:18-05:00

Please help me to maybe provide an intelligent answer by answering another question and this may start to help answer the initial question. What is the VFW and what do they do? When I think VFW I think of the old guys sitting around the bar drinking beers and swapping war stories. Not being rude but I think many of the younger vets have never been educated on what the VFW is how they can help. Me included.

Response by SGT Thomas Lucken made Dec 30 at 2014 2:33 PM

2014-12-30T14:33:52-05:00

As I have stated elsewhere, a big part of the issue is the percentage of Veterans in our Society anymore!

The last drafted ended almost 40 years ago, otherwise the youngest draftees you are going to find are about 58 years of age. When the draft was on, you had more people serving then you do now!

Also, since the end of the Cold War (1991), the volunteer military has dropped quite a bit in size!

So after stating that, I think you actually seen a higher percentage that do join VSOs. But that is on a percentage base on living veterans! The amount of living veterans is about 10 percent of the current population, if that high even, which is 30,000,000 people. I would say it is closer to only 5% of the population has ever served in the military, 15,000,000.

Response by SSgt James Connolly made Jan 1 at 2015 6:55 PM

2015-01-01T18:55:41-05:00

I would welcome anyone living in or around Mpls./St.Paul MN. to give me a call and I am all ears about doing things that would attract any of the OIF/Desert Storm/ Irag/Afgan veterans and getting some input as to what your interests are.
We have halls that can be used for BS. sessions of your own peers or Yoga classes, Fire Arms Saftey and anything else we could accomadaate you for.We need your input you have to remember at the end of RVN we didn't even know what computors were all about.
Thanks for reading

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 4:38 AM

2015-02-04T04:38:05-05:00

I think the biggest issue facing recruitment for veteran organizations is the generation gap. I was a member of the Legion for a time. When I went in there, I was the youngest by 40 years. I had nothing in common with them. I know some guys my age-late 20s-mid 30's who are involved in their posts, but most of them have family members there too.

I know that the Legion/VFW do great things at the national level, but I don't see the point of hanging out with a bunch of grumpy old men drinking canned beer and choking on smoke.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2015 5:37 AM

2015-02-04T05:37:31-05:00

I would think that it is because they don't have enough time to do what they want to do or are working to many hours to take on extra activites. I know I work 14-18 hours a day 5-6 days a week so it is currently out of my question to join. When I retire. I most certainly will join!

Response by SFC Michael Hanke made Feb 5 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-02-05T12:39:05-05:00

AMVETS in the great north has been successful with opening their doors to young vets. They recenty chartered a new post with the average age in their 30's.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-02-05T12:44:38-05:00

As a "younger" veteran (joined in 2002 and served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan) many do not understand what these organizations do or have to offer them. Many younger veterans see the local VFW lodges as places for Vietnam/Korean war vets to go and drink. All they see are "old guys" in their hats. It's not viewed as a "cool" place to hang out on Friday nights. To me it's an image and an education problem. SGM West seems to be doing some great community outreach to younger veterans but I don't see this as a VFW program across the board. I don't see VFW members in my community reaching out to younger veterans or educating younger veterans about what the VFW does for them. My community has two or three halls and we have 4 or 5 community parades every year. What a great time and place to get your message out. However they are not represented. We see the Mason's, the volunteer Fire Fighters, and other organizations but no VFW members.

Response by LTC Rob Hefner made Feb 5 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-02-05T12:56:12-05:00

Veterans gather together because being around others who understand matters. WWII, VietNam, even the first Gulf War are different from what our bubbas in the 'Stan and Iraq faced and are facing. Warriors all, but every war is different. Every generation is different.Those guys, the younger ones, are not going to spend their time wearing funny hats and talking politics any more than Korea veterans would have in 1959 (no offence, just my experience in lat 3 VFW posts visited). They may join a place where camaraderie matters, where they can be around others with the same experiences. They don't seek pity or benefits or involvement or guidance. They seek brotherhood.

Response by MAJ Daniel Buchholz made Feb 5 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-02-05T12:56:41-05:00

My dad (a VFW lifetime member) paid for half of my membership when I got back from AFG. I haven't really been involved (as I am still in ARNG and have a very young child, both of which don't leave me with a lot of free time) but I knew that this was an organization that looks after vets both in the community and on the national level and figured I should join the ranks.
With all the civic groups that appear to be dying on the vine, it seemed like a good way to keep in touch with my fellow local veterans.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 1:00 PM

2015-02-05T13:00:07-05:00

I believe it's just a different generation- a more technilogical one and a more health conscience one. VSOs are a dime a dozen out there now, that have no membership fee and do a lot of good in this country and around the world. A veteran's 'community service' isn't limited to the town where they belong to the Legion/VFW.

Team Rubicon matches MOS skills with labor, sending veterans out the door into natural disasters around the world. Team RWB Concentrates on fitness. IAVA lobbies.

I belong to my Legion and VFW, but truth be told, I don't want to sit around and share war stories while drinking/smoking. My Legion and VFW do a couple of community feeds every year, but I want to be more involved than that.

Some Leaders in the VFW and the Legion would say, well, why don't you get into leadership and start to foment change? I will do that when these organizations take our service, OUR DIVERSITY and our suggestions seriously.

For example, how come all the freaking paperwork isn't on digits? How come when my generation comes into the Legion/VFW Hall there's no wireless? How come when my sisiters in arms have good suggestions they are ignored? How come there's never any money to do anything? (at the meetings you give the financial report and we seem to be flush).

Now I don't mind having a meeting place to kick back and watch a game. I like participating in Boy's State and the Legion youth baseball league. The children's programs are good.

Just different priorities and different ways to accomplish the same things. The Legion/VFW lobby well for Veterans, I'll give them that, but so do other VSOs.

And I'll have to say that these are local level (chapter) problems for the most part. Retention is going to be harder and harder for the old organizations as people die off. You need new (young) blood up and down the chain, starting at the natinoal levels. I actually had a Legion District Commander tell me to not worry about recruiting all the combat vets at the Guard Armory 20 min from the post, but to concentrate on getting fees from the current members. Fully 60% live out of state. Anyone see a problem with that?

These older organizations have to get thier sales hats on and aggresively recruit from the ARNG/USAR Centers/Armories around them. Launch a letter writing campaign to Active Duty veterans (my post knows who each and every AD person is who came from this town) and get them to commit now. They need to ask this younger generation of Vets what they want to see in their post and then implement it, perhaps with help from state and national.

Just my two cents...

Response by CPT David McDonald made Feb 5 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-02-05T13:10:18-05:00

I would join except they, VFW, American Legion, are not very helpful when it comes to veterans benefits. I have been retired for three years 01MAR 15 and my retirement pay is still wrong. I have asked the mentioned organizations in my area for help and I get the bovine look. I don't need a place to drink cheap I needed an organization that would truly help. When that becomes the mission of these fine clubs call me.

Response by Sgt Justin Thompson made Feb 5 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-02-05T13:21:26-05:00

One big reason is social media is allowing younger service members to stay in touch, so they rely less on service orgs for their connection, I am a Life Member of VFW and the Legion and I stop in to the VFW from time to time. The Legion post here is a pretty tight group of old timers that have not been very welcoming the few times I have stopped in. Plus I have a large family and neither post offers much in the way of events suitable for the kiddos. If I want a beer I stop in and shoot the breeze.

Response by LTC Andrew Loeb made Feb 5 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-02-05T13:24:05-05:00

The University of Pittsburgh recently paid tribute to the 100 year organization of the VFW here in Pittsburgh at the old Schenley Hotel in 1914 back in September.

http://www.cmmr.pitt.edu/news-story/vfw-celebrates-100-years-pittsburgh

A few things that I've noticed in the 2 years that I've been working with "Big John Biedrzycki Jr. " who is due to take over the helm this summer at the national convention here in Pittsburgh.
1) There is an effort internal to both the VFW and American Legion to change the public image of the VSO from local watering holes to one of value and meaning. Unfortunately that will only happen from leadership that is integrated and involved at the local level.
2) The VFW has itself been slow to adapt to changes in Veterans recruitment. Segregating the male and female participation in the organization only recently changed. I cannot speak for every chapter but their is a seniority based rank structure within some of the local chapters here in Pittsburgh.

Recently returning Veterans are more attracted to join organizations such as Red White and Blue, Student Veterans Association, and Veterans of Iraq/Afghanistan Chapters because of their visibility and recent organization.

I'm curious to see how the VFW National meeting here in Pittsburgh adapts and see if it can change its overall image attract new members.

VFW Celebrates 100 Years in Pittsburgh | Center for Military Medicine Research | University of...

The University of Pittsburgh is among the nation's most distinguished comprehensive universities, with a wide variety of high-quality programs in both the arts and sciences and professional fields.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 2:07 PM

2015-02-05T14:07:55-05:00

I am glad to see that this question was addressed and is now coming up again. the posts are excellent, with the highest complaint being that the 'bar' is all that that post does; or appears to do. It would appear that the individual post need to do a lot more community education as well as involvement. I am retiring and have been looking for a post to attach myself too, haven't found it yet. Still looking though, I do want to maintain a relationship with my fellow veterans as well as contribute.

Response by SPC Rich Stiltner made Feb 5 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-02-05T14:17:58-05:00

Joining the VFW was the best thing I did. Post 1578

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 2:19 PM

2015-02-05T14:19:29-05:00

1SG, I think it comes down to a couple of things.

The first is Attitude. I am a member of the Legion (Fairfax, VA) and was of the VFW (Morgantown, WV). I joined because I wanted the connection, but the attitude of many of the members post is that the new warriors aren't worthy or aren't the same. You can see this attitude within the postings here. I noticed someone said "if they had an app for it", the membership would be up. Slights like that are said all the time and at a point people like me, the next generation Legionnaires stop wanting to participate.

The second issue is when members do join, they aren't invited to get involved. It seems like even on a national level once the dues are paid the brotherhood is over. I have been a member of my post for several months, and I have made the meetings, social hours etc. But I have yet to be asked to join a committee or assist in a project. Part of this may be me not really reaching out and attempting to get involved, but I feel like its a two-way street and I do not want to rock the boat. To a certain extent, many of my generation feel we are rocking the boat by playing music on the jukebox, or being a little to loud at the pool table.

Finally, I think both organizations are great. But I think we need to make some changes in the way we treat each other in the Social Halls. I think we all need to change our focus of our recruitment from touting what we do in Washington and showing what we do locally to help our brothers in the posts.

Response by Cpl Charles Thompson made Feb 5 at 2015 3:08 PM

2015-02-05T15:08:17-05:00

Well, was a member of the VFW, I enjoyed it until, I wasn't coming in every week , I'd cone in every other week or so..well some of the guys assumed it was because I was out doing drugs, when honestly I was spending less time going our and more time with my wife a 2 kids.Thatsy reason ...The main reason I hear from other vets my age I've heard was the age gap, the older guys like the old way and newer guys don't want to sit in a smoke filled dark room listening to hank willams (myself not included)

Response by Cpl Charles Thompson made Feb 5 at 2015 3:13 PM

2015-02-05T15:13:27-05:00

I'd personally wouldn't mind a Marine Corps League set up closer to my home.the nearest is 45 min to an hour drive.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 3:15 PM

2015-02-05T15:15:47-05:00

The answer is simple...societal norms. Men are expected to be home after work to help out with the family unit. Good luck, guys, trying to get a pass to go the bar after work or on the weekends. God help you if you get a DUI driving back from the VFW, your career is done.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 3:19 PM

2015-02-05T15:19:32-05:00

Not so long ago, I tried to join the vfw in my hometown. They acted as though I was a spouse trying to wear my husband's rank despite it being my name clearly on my documentation. "I'm sure you are proud of your husband ma'am but that doesn't make you a vet."
Considering I was home on con leave after finally making it home after being wounded in Afghanistan this did not go over well. Left such a bad taste in my mouth I have no plan to associate with the group further.

Response by SFC James Massey made Feb 5 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-02-05T15:49:23-05:00

I believe that the young veterans of today who have be through numerous deployments and disappointments from the service no longer wish to be associated with any military type organization. Although we are not THE military we are all from the military and I feel the young veterans fail to recognize the difference. The veterans that are not injured in any way just want to put as much distance between themselves and the service or any organization that even whispers a branch of the military.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-02-05T16:08:56-05:00

Greetings, I am currently stationed in Germany. I reached out to the VFW numerous times, to a few members who claimed they were active members of the organization with the hopes to get some form of support/collaboration/honoring of veterans event during one of our Veterans Day meals in my Dining Facility where I served as Assistant Manager. I am sad to report that I never heard back, and as a Noncommissioned officer I followed up with those contacts numerous times. I recon'd the times of meetings at their local office here in my community, and upon my arrival, i encountered nothing but an empty location with no one present. So to answer this question, I am sure a few folks have already provided the same answer, what are organizations such as the VFW and etc doing to gain the interest of those outside of their organizations to carry the rich history that it bears, to tell those stories. We as a society can not expect for everything to just come to us, it has to be looked for and innovation has to play a part in how to do it. I have been here for 3 years, have yet to hear a response from those I contacted, no calls returned, no info provided.

Response by SGT Paul Belk made Feb 5 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-02-05T16:13:57-05:00

I am a younger member of the veteran population. I retired from the National Guard in 2009 because of medical issues I had just shy of 20 years. I resisted the idea of joining the VFW because I did not want to become associated with the beer drinking smoking crowd. I was invited by an older member to attend a charity event for VFW Post 2423 in Indian Trail, NC and I expected to encounter the smell of cigarette smoke, but it was surprisingly absent.
The canteen has a bar and a designated smoking area out back in the fresh air. I have no problem with smokers I often hang out with my comrades out there and I enjoy the post immensely. We do a great deal for our community in the Charlotte area. I am the Post Service Officer. I believe if the VFW membership at large would remember what it was like when they came home from war or military service. Have more events oriented for families and still have the usual activities. If we stand together and realize we have a responsibility to keep serving each other and our community I think we will not have any issues attracting and maintaining younger veterans.

Response by SGT Bryan Noyes made Feb 5 at 2015 4:15 PM

2015-02-05T16:15:07-05:00

I know this an issue for everybody. I was introduced to my Local VFW Post 6859 by my professor at the local community college. (Btw, was the best professor I had) and he wasn't pushing membership, he proving and showed me he CARED about me and Veterans altogether. He was the faculty advisor to building & establishing the Veterans Club at the college and the other local Universities. All the college campuses should have a Veteran's Club or space and Veteran's can have a voice in the schools. I have been a member for 4 years now, the past 2 years, I have been really active because I could see the strength of the legacy these organizations have now and need to maintain in order for us to get anything done. Our Post (Portland,ME) is AWESOME. The Men's & Ladies Auxiliaries &the VFW itself have been supportive and been like a brotherhood again and the few "Safe places" I feel like I can go to anytime. Our post is one of the youngest population BECAUSE they reached out to the college campuses. Yes, the initial thought is that we are those generations, but when they the colorguard and half our Post Leadership and our generation then more come in. The thing to show is not just a Canteen but PROVE what our mission is, SHOW that we care of the community and each other. I have been Post Service Officer for 2 years, Trustee for 2 years & Our Post & State Dept HonorGuard. Being active keeps me busy but I have seen more of what we do for each other and rebuilt the comradery that I have missed. Primarily, EVERY MEMBER can do outreach for our daily lives and not pushembership but push that we CARE & CAN HELP...then they become members after because they haven't had the help in life...all aspects of life. Reach out to the campuses, be there thier events & show we can do more things faster & better than going thru just the VA. Network and know where they can get help for anything (not just claims, but housing, car repair, heating assistance, rehabiltation, therapy, and even...just a good time outside of the Post level.) I agree, our future is only solid when we don't have to recreate something new, lean on each other and the legacy each member has earned to create and lengthen our own legacies.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made Feb 5 at 2015 4:19 PM

2015-02-05T16:19:46-05:00

The VFW from personal experience does not have as much to offer as Wounded Warrior Project or IAVA. I found that when I visit most VFW post the bar is always full. Wounded Warrior Projects aims to help better veterans and actually contacts members who join and tell them about events. I hate to say this, But after joining the VFW and being with them for several years they challenged my membership and was rude about it. I could not believe the way they were acting. I think the newer organizations are more active. I think that during the VFWs watch the whole VA thing happened. When you know things are not right and you sit on your hands while corruption is going on, you are just as guilty.

Veterans need a stronger voice. We are not the same old veterans that let others do the work. We are a younger generation with a real commitment to change things and shake things up.

I myself am impressed with the wounded warrior project.

I sent the VFW proof and not one apology from them on how they acted.

Response by PO3 Ronald Shierling made Feb 5 at 2015 4:24 PM

2015-02-05T16:24:26-05:00

Having joined the local VFW Post 2391 here in St. Augustine, I can tell you that a lot of the reasons the younger vet's don't want to join is partially the stigma that its for older vet's. I know that our post while an outstanding one is kinda standoffish when first walking in as a new member. You get the look from the older vets as if saying he wasn't part of my war. The other part is that, with all the old blood in leadership position's no one wants to change anything or think outside the box. Just my thoughts and observations.

Response by CSM Ralph Hernandez made Feb 5 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-02-05T17:02:38-05:00

I am a member of the VFW. Everytime I see young Veteran I try to sell the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), American legion, and the Disabled American Veterans (DAV). I also tell them about the Old Soldiers Home. I tell them this so if they ever see a Fellow Veteran in need, they can help. I exp!ain what the VFW does for families such as scholarship programs and also fight for their rights at Capitol Hill. I am getting ready to Retire after 35 years of Service to our Nation and the Best Army in the world. I will continue to sell our programs to all young Veterans. Thank you all for what you do for our Great Nation each and every day.

V/r,

SGM Ralph O. Hernandez

Response by SFC John Cruzat made Feb 5 at 2015 5:57 PM

2015-02-05T17:57:13-05:00

I was thinking about this the other day and realized I didn't feel compelled to join either. As I thought about why I felt that way it occurred to me that these organizations have no visibility in my world and that if they pulled on their internal talent (Marketing Execs, Business Leaders, etc) they could craft a campaign to reach out nationally in a way that would get even younger soldiers to engage and lock in the succession for generations to come.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 7:39 PM

2015-02-05T19:39:16-05:00

I believe we effectively skipped a generation of Veteran mentors. WWII had WWI, Korea had WWII, Vietnam had Korea. The current generation, while fighting the longest war our nation has engaged in, has no one to bridge the bi-generational gap from Vietnam to GWOT (not taking anything away from the Gulf War I). It’s a problem not just with mentorship (I’ll explain in a second), but the reason that we’re not seeing as many MOHs. Today’s leaders aren’t quite sure what qualifies because their generation never experienced it. There’s the problem statement; a Generational Gap.

The VFW, AmVets, American Legion, many have experienced this ‘gap’ in membership. Last time I pick up a VFW magazine, I saw adds for Velcro dress shoes and clip on sunglasses. To begin with, they need to modernize their marketing. I understand that it may affect their baseline target audience from a business perspective, Vietnam era vets, but as those vets move onto Vahalla, the organizations have to transform. Ten years ago there was no impetus, but unlike Smith Corona who never changed (never heard of them, there's a reason not; google their demise), I believe the vet organizations are beginning to realize the need for change, or at least grow their base.

But if weekly medication tray advertisements is the face of the vet’s groups in magazines, it’s no wonder we are killing ourselves at a rate of 22 a day. I explained to my friend Jeff, we (vets in general) used to be able to go down to the VFW hall, sit on a stool, drink a beer and exchange stories with someone who was 10-15 years our senior. It was mentorship and support. We’d tie a few on, gripe about friends we lost, and through a shared misery, we would norm what was a horrific and traumatizing experience. You would know that you were not alone. There was someone you could call. These guys are older than your 20-something year old vets’ dads. No one wants to gripe to their Pop. AN fewer want to go hang out in a (some are) smokey bar. Not this generation.

That said, they CAN capitalize on the vets through imaging. We all are familiar with the Patriot Riders. We know a Vietnam Vet with a bike. I don’t have one, but that is the image I hold. These guys are not your pop. They are tough, they were shat on by a country when they returned. And they have been the driving force to ensure we were never treated like them. They hold an amazing amount of respect. It needs to be leveraged.

My 8 and 5 year old sons met the Vietnam Vets at the Vietnam and Korea memorial at 0600 on a Sunday a few months back. We were jogging the Mall that am and stopped to help. We pitched in cleaning the walls, trimming the hedges in the Korea War Memorial. They were grateful to see that not just my generation, but my sons’ were being raised with the right values. It was a teaching opportunity for me to my sons on why I always tell Vietnam Vets, “Welcome home” instead of “Thank you”.

Sorry. A little disjointed, but the bottom line is to modernize marketing and leverage the image of the Vietnam Vet who did what he was asked by a country who didn’t acknowledge it at the time. I think part of us (modern vets) are so used to being spoiled, it is good to touch base with those for whom it wasn’t so. Sponsor Vet motorcycle mentorship rides. Clean up opportunities in the community of our memorials with current and older vets. ***See if they can get themselves invited to the local base dining in or mil ball functions. ***Take an office call with the Garrison Commander and talk about how they can help on base. ***Office call with the medical treatment facility commander to see how they can help with suicide abatement.

All these would go a long way. Sorry so long winded.

Response by SSG Daniel Rosploch made Feb 5 at 2015 7:39 PM

2015-02-05T19:39:27-05:00

I see the same problem here in Australia as I did in the US. Its not just US veterans turning away from vet groups. Here, the RSL only operates bars and casinos. I walked into one looking to connect with veterans, and was told I had to pay higher membership fees over social club membership fees in order to join. And even if I did that, they couldn't promise any programs that involved veterans hanging out together and bonding. Ya know, I wouldn't mind hanging at a bar with old vets, but by not offering programs that appeal to younger veterans, you not only lost membership dues, but lost long-term support and reputation.

Another thing is that the VFW seems to favor Vietnam and older veterans, or at least that's they way it seems when you walk into one. They seem like they are only in existence for generating revenue to keep the lights on so they can have a place to hide from their wives. I'm okay with that, but there's got to more that we can do...helping that homeless vet a couple blocks down, sprucing up that local veterans memorial in the local park, etc.

I do agree, its a local leadership issue rather than national. But, its an international problem as well....

http://www.thecitizen.org.au/news/young-veterans-turning-away-out-touch-rsl

Young veterans turning away from 'out of touch' RSL

Newly established ex-service groups are drawing strong support from veterans of both conflicts, who see the long-standing Returned and Services League as too bureaucratic and generally “out of touch” with their needs. Instead, they are accessing a range of advocacy and support services provided by emerging groups such as Young Diggers, founded in 2010, and other non-affiliated RSL organisations.

Response by SGT Jon Henri Matteau made Feb 5 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-02-05T21:10:58-05:00

Probably because the religious undertones of these groups is outdated and out of place. There is a stygma now attributed to veterans from older wars compared to newer ones. The Vietnam vets we see wandering around are older and eccentric. We see a cluster of them hovering around intersections begging. To be fair the majority of these beggars are not vets, but the general public does not know that. Now with the influx and confusion of the veterans from the war and the veterans from the invasion, the general public is confused by the "threat" of PTSD. Who wants to be associated with crazies? Regardless of the truth.

Response by PO2 Thomas J. made Feb 5 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-02-05T21:14:01-05:00

I belong to the American Legion and served 2 terms as Adjutant.

Response by MAJ Gregory M. made Feb 5 at 2015 10:54 PM

2015-02-05T22:54:49-05:00

I think it depends on the local chapter. VFW Post 1 in Denver is very active, but it also draws from a lot of student veterans at local colleges and many veterans working in the local aerospace and defense industry as well as local finance and technology hubs. The post has a lot of active service programs and a tight network with many Colorado veteran organizations, as well as fitness and art events by veterans. I don't think many of the smaller posts in surrounding suburbs have the same level of activity or membership.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-02-05T23:32:17-05:00

I am a life member of Marine Corps League, VFW, AMVETS and DAV and what I notice is a bunch of old white guys hanging out at s bar or in the ceremonies some archaic silly bullsh*t. The leadership and most veteran organizations are failing to reach out to the younger veteran communities and offering things that they find important

Response by SSG Sean Garcia made Feb 5 at 2015 11:40 PM

2015-02-05T23:40:27-05:00

I don't really care to join the VFW just because I don't want to. I am an Afghan vet and I honestly don't feel the need to have to pay for membership for something that I feel like I've earned. IAVA marches on to Washington and fights for many of the causes that I also feel strongly about, and it's free. Key word for me is, it's free. I know that all these organizations are trying to reach out to younger vets and I wish you all the best. I am just simply adding my two cents as to why I prefer the newer organizations that I feel pertain to me personally. Good luck though and I hope that you are able to maintain your numbers

Response by SPC Christopher Dunbar made Feb 6 at 2015 12:53 AM

2015-02-06T00:53:51-05:00

This is one thing that I think about constantly. I am 30 years old and the Commander of my local American Legion Post. I've only been it a year, and before I joined, the average age of membership was near 80! I dramatically lessened it, being 28 when I joined.

The "problem" stems from several places.

#1: People getting the stigmata to and from a younger generation. VFWs and American Legions are notorious for having a Canteena. Older Vets tend to not welcome newer Vets because they didn't go through the same thing the elders did. I am the same way. My friendship allegiances are The Platoon I served with, the company, the battalion, then everyone else. I get that.
It also comes from the energy of the younger generations. When I go to a bar or canteena, I would prefer to be up and moving while an older generation prefers to stay seated and lower the music volume.

#2: Number 2 coincides with the end of #1. People run 5K races (and higher) and way more active than the older generations. I'm not saying that the older generations couldn't do it, but more often they prefer to not, and they won't participate from the sidelines either. The generations are too different in physique.

#3: There are so many (too many) other groups geared to today's generation of warrior class. Wounded Warriors and IAVA are just a few Veteran geared programs, as well as many different obstacle course and cohesion programs, such as Tough Mudder, Spartan Race, Limit of Advance, and many, many more. Any opportunist can see that the generational gap and let's face it, it's all in advertising. Who wouldn't want to join a group who are named after the campaigns that they participated in?

Reasons #1 and #2 make a good influence opportunity and set up reason #3. The CEOs, owners, founders, whoever gain influence at the very least, money at the most. I'm not saying that anyone is out for the money, but the opportunity is there.

There are more reasons why this is happening, and I believe it is all of our responsibilities to try and bridge this gap.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Feb 6 at 2015 5:14 AM

2015-02-06T05:14:29-05:00

There is a large generational gap to start with. The older members were used to having a different work ethic as part of their life. Just about every one of them was thinking about what they were going to do to make ends meet at 16 if not earlier. Society today is much slower to fully engage with their adult responsibilities. For the WWII generation it was simple. You were good to go, or you weren't. You were worth something or you weren't. Your word meant you could be trusted or not. There were no extra issues with all the excuses for why you did something. I think that creates a separation with the older vets. For some reason I find that I can talk with the older vets more easily than I can with just about any other population. I share theri attitudes in regard toward what a person is worth. I have also extensively studied our military history from WWII and Viet Nam. Maybe they helps create a bond that would be tenous otherwise.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Feb 6 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-02-06T07:50:20-05:00

I think it is reasonable to wonder how much longer these organizations (VFW, American Legion, et al) will still be around, especially as the OIF-OEF generation of service members and veterans gets older. If so few of us are joining the VFW and Legion, then it's only logical that many of those organizations' posts will fade in member #s due to age and older veterans passing away. Upfront, I can say that I don't think it helps for the VFW and Legion to be charging annual membership dues to people as a way of sustaining their operations.

Response by SSG Andrew Neeb made Feb 6 at 2015 8:02 AM

2015-02-06T08:02:25-05:00

My thought, too many organizations. Consolodation needs to happen in order to pool funds and increase outreach and influence.

Response by SGT Stephen Boldrey made Feb 6 at 2015 8:23 AM

2015-02-06T08:23:05-05:00

I know a lot of younger soldier have told me the same thang in different words. They got a bad taste in there mouth from past deployment .were they didn't have leaders that took the time to get know them & just used them as a stepping stone to get awards or metals. And on the other hand these kids today are joining the military for the wrong reasons there looking for College money . Not all some do it for the love of Country . I can trace my family history from WW1 WW2 Vietnam to Afghanistan. I have a little faith in our leaders that represent us in Washington . But I know the VFW works hard to fight for penetrant. That's all the reason I need to join .

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-02-06T09:19:34-05:00

Its a shame if current Veterans are not joining and participating in these organizations. I joined the VFW and became a lifetime member after my first deployment to OIF 2003. I stay as active as I can, and enjoy very much talking to those who served before me. I volunteer my time at the Veterans Retirement homes as well seeking to gain wisdom from my forefathers, less we never forget their sacrifices. A legacy we need to reenforce with the current generation of service members.

Response by CPL James Nesmith made Feb 6 at 2015 9:41 AM

2015-02-06T09:41:18-05:00

What might help is updating your own Image. Your uniforms and look is great for a WWII vets but you need to appeal to the young generation.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-02-06T09:54:31-05:00

I fully intend on joining the local American Legion as soon as I am a little more financially stable. Currently I belong to the Knights of Columbus & am very active w/ the patriotic portion of it. My dad is a member back in my hometown & speaks rather highly of it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-02-06T10:11:07-05:00

I think that today most people's lives are busier than they have been in the past. I am an active member of my VFW post but I miss several meetings because I am still an active Guardsman and Miltech. I try to work the Poppy sales and other events, but unless it's a holiday that relieves me from my regular duties then it is difficult for me to make it. Attending schools or training can also interfere even with holidays.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 11:11 AM

2015-02-06T11:11:21-05:00

These organizations just don't appeal to most young veterens anymore. OTHER than cheaper alcohol there aren't many perks for younger service members. I myself am a member of the VFW and the AMVETS but I rarely go and it's for a number of reasons. 1. They are usually musty, rundown, dank, and dark establishments in questionable neighborhoods with limited parking. They close early. They only have one pool table that is of questionable quality and the jukebox is ancient. They aren't well cleaned, well maintained, updated or renovated. 2. There are very few, single, available and attractive members of the opposite sex. I'm not trying to be an ass, but I want to have something to look at and talk to and Enjoy spending time with and for many younger troopers that is what is fun on a weekend. 3. There seems to be a great disparity in age groups. I love my Vietnam vets. I grew up with them, hung out with them as a kid, played frisbee with them, hell drank and got drunk at a much too early age with them, and I have mad respect for them, but other than fighting a war, most younger service men and women have nothing in common with them. Many were born two decades after these vets got out of service. To many younger vets, the older generation is nothing more than pictures on the wall and Vietnam is where their shoes are made. I have no idea what the answers to the problems are but to hazard a few guesses. 1. Shut down a lot of these struggling small posts. Sell the space or ATLEAST stop leasing it, consolidate and build a larger, newer post that can accommodate more members but that is updated. Fresh. 2. Build it somewhere it can have some yard for summer games like cornhole, horseshoes, etc. Somewhere pleasant to stand or sit outdoors and converse, smoke unmolested, and drink a beverage. 3. Disallow smoking indoors. Make a smoking area outside or a smoking room/terrace for colder climates. Let's face it. Even smokers are tired of smelling like an ashtray and it makes the whole bar dingy and stink. 4. More family oriented activities. Not just dinners and socials but golf scrambles and small family fairs with midways and rides. Fundraisers/Donation drives. Etc. Get people active and participating. 5. Get young servicemen connected to it. Example. The reason I joined is because my sergeant major used to take young joes on a detail in uniform to help VFW and America Legion parades on Veterans Day, Memorial Day and independence day. I drove a Humvee with some World War II vets through the parade waving etc. Seeing kids yell and laugh and wave and smile at me the whole way. I drove all the way to the cemetery where they put me on the honor guard with an m-1 firing the 21 gun salute! Holy shit!! Loved it. It made me feel apart of the whole. I may have joined the next day! Now I'm not saying that these things aren't happening at some places but that as a general whole this is what I have seen at the many VFWs I have visited around the country from Maine to California.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-02-06T11:18:52-05:00

I think mostly its a cultural issue. VFW's are seen mostly as bars by outsiders. I use the term "outsider" because I was with my MIL and wife and we played bingo there once and she introduced me to one of the guys and told him I was an Iraq/AFG vet and he said "well good for you, that'll be $12."
Vets these days are more into community outreach and helping each other, going to Spartan races, etc. I can't think of any of my friends that just want to go sit and drink and smoke and joke and swap war stories in a smoky hall bar.

Response by SFC Richard M. made Feb 6 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-02-06T12:03:47-05:00

I saw this post yesterday and it struck a chord with me. Last night I signed up and am now a member of the VFW Post 6978. Thanks for the inspiration.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Feb 6 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-02-06T12:14:33-05:00

I will tell my story with the VFW and hope that sheds some light on the issue. When I first returned home after leaving the service it was 2005 and there were very few GWOT Vets out there. So I went down to my local VFW to sign up and hang out with the only other Vets I knew of. My first impression was kind of negative. I walked in and told the bartender that I wanted to sign up and their response was "Oh, are you on your daddy's auxiliary?" So right away I was slighted for being young. I said "No, I am the veterans" and went ahead and signed up. So I would head over there every once and awhile to have a beer and see what was going on. I was disappointed by the crowd to say the least. Most of the people in there were on their daddy's auxiliary so they weren't vets. The other vets in there were interesting and mostly dysfunctional. As I was trying to get my life on track I just stopped going because I felt it wasn't a place I wanted to be. Not to mention the atmosphere is dark and dingy so I never felt better when I left. I think that is one reason why many young vets don't sign up. Also many are going to college and joining their college Veteran groups.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 6 at 2015 12:35 PM

2015-02-06T12:35:02-05:00

I don't think that today's young veterans are encountering the same reception that Vietnam Vets experienced when they approached veterans organizations such as the American Legion and the VFW. We were shunned and dismissed as not being "real soldiers". We lost our war (of course a fallacious claim). We were drug addicts and baby killers.

As a consequence, the "Big 2", the American Legion and the VFW, are mere shadows of their former selves. Membership has declined as those who rejected us, WWII and Korean Vets, are dying off, and only a smattering of Vietnam Vets are returning to take their places. Fortunately, Vietnam Vets are determined to not repeat the mistakes of the WWII and Korean Vets.

I didn't join the American Legion and the VFW until I was 71 and I could be accused of hanging around at their meetings just to feel young again. (For those who have trouble deciphering my suggestion allow me to add that the average age of the membership seems to be approaching the century mark.) It's not the kind of place where young people would feel comfortable. The only thing we share in common is the fact that we too served.

I'm trying to change that.

I volunteered to take over the website and give it a younger, hipper flair. I'm also working on a mobile version to appeal to the fact that younger people prefer to use mobile devices such as iPads and smart phones.

A few of us are lobbying for programs and services that address the needs of younger veterans: Young adult education and helping with careers and job searches.

Still, it's a battle. Two young female veterans showed up at our December meeting and many of us were overjoyed. We took pains to make them feel welcome, but it appears that we failed. They didn't return in January and I can only hope that we'll see them at the February meeting. Someone needs to call them to encourage them to return and bring their friends...

Response by SGT Kevin Gardner made Feb 6 at 2015 2:45 PM

2015-02-06T14:45:28-05:00

I saw this post but thought I needed some time to think about the question, now I can only speak for myself but here is my take on why membership is down for younger members.

I have a family and spend most of my time with them, this helps with my healing process and can honestly say that I would like to see more out reach programs from the VFW that include family friendly activities.

Growing up my grandfather would take me to the VFW and my takeaway from those visits was there was a lot of bitterness, I once saw a veteran attack another veteran of how Vietnam was nat a war and that that veteran had no right to be at the VFW, now I know this attitude has changed some but the underlying bitterness is still there.

Our generations are so far removed that many of us don't feel there is any level of understanding, now for some of us we know this is not true, but in my grandfathers day trama was something to be ignored put it aside don't talk about it, and we know now that we need to have these discussions (not to say my generation is a bunch of cry baby's, but the perception is there.)

It seems to me that that my generation feels that the VFW is a place for old warriors to hang out drink all day and tell each other story's, now I know this is not true.

I know the VFW fights hard to make sure that the promis our nation has made to us is kept, but I think that message gets lost in the perceptions we see when we enter a VFW post.

I will admit I let my membership lapse, I just can't seem to justify taking my wife and daughters to a VFW post with the amount booze floating around.

the VFW will have to make some drastic changes in order to show the new generation of veterans that the VFW is a place that they want to be, I have had a few ideas based on what other veterans I have talked with, but found our ideas to fall on deaf ears.

It's not just what the VFW does for the community of veterans as a whole but it also needs to be about helping with the healing process as well as being family oriented, the VFW needs to find the younger Vets and push them into positions to have some influence on how the VFW deals with this new generation of warriors.

A lot of us feel that the VFW was our grandfathers club, now me I have no shame in wanting to be apart of that club to me my grand father is the greatest man to have ever put on a uniform, to deploy to Korea. And yes I idolized my grandfather his generation and the generations of all war fighters who have been called to duty for our nation, but mostly my grandfather is my hero.

I know I went off on a tangent there for a second but thank you for letting me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-02-06T15:35:45-05:00

I think I know the reason. Out of 20+ VFW's and AL's I been to, only one was willing to let me in the door and that is because they were expecting my brothers and I. To put it this way, I stopped at a random American legion in West Virginia and asked to use the latrine because I was on a motorcycle ride with a buddy of mine (also a vet). They told me that I can't come in. I told them I have my CAC card in my pocket, and they replied "sorry, can't help you bud." Really??? After that, I was done!!! Who wants to be part of an organization like that???? Sorry, but that is complete disrespect in my book!!!

Response by PO2 Michael Ryals made Feb 6 at 2015 5:40 PM

2015-02-06T17:40:18-05:00

My two cents. VSOs should not be "for" GWOT vets yet. Very few of us need the benefits. (Same thing for the VA). We are still working and getting other benefits. In 10ish years when we are ready to take over the responsibilities from the "Nam" vets and are starting to think about civilian retirements we can start talking about it. But I am sure the Nam guys got the same treatment from WW2 guys.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 6:33 PM

2015-02-06T18:33:32-05:00

I hope to be more active in one or both organizations, I just seem so busy that I don't know how I can fit it in.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-02-06T20:37:23-05:00

The reason I feel is, I don't feel like I belong. My service and deployment time just feels like it's a joke in comparison to what they did during their time. Those guys have done so many things that I feel most of us will never be able to hold a candle to. Some real heroes.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 9:19 PM

2015-02-06T21:19:27-05:00

A lot of the younger veterans see the VFW and American Legions as a place to go just to drink and smoke. Often times they do not receive what they see as a warm welcome from some of the older generation. Also, a lot of the younger ones are more into physical fitness rather than sitting and drinking. I think that if some VFWs or whomever were to sponsor 5ks or some stuff like that it could possibly draw in the younger crowd and start changing perceptions - because as we all know perception is everything :)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 7:36 PM

2015-02-08T19:36:04-05:00

I am a life member the VFW. People need to join. I recently transferred to a chapter which has not contacted me since my transfer. I really want to be fair here. My generation should join, if you flew in through Bangore Maine after deployment the VFW welcomed you. But the current memberships elsewhere should also reach out more. VFW members should start inviting young vets.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 7:49 PM

2015-02-08T19:49:16-05:00

These organizations were meant to help veterans and to fight for their rights. These days that isn't as much of an issue.

Response by Matthew Torrelli made Feb 8 at 2015 9:13 PM

2015-02-08T21:13:55-05:00

I am a life member of my VFW POST 307 in Rochester,Ny. I became a member while on block leave after coming home from Iraq (OIF 1 2003-2004) Assigned to the 801st MSB,101st Abn Div from 2003-2013

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-02-08T21:24:54-05:00

I am an active duty soilder and I have been inthe military for 4 years now and this is the first time I am hearing that younger veterans can join these organizations. The reason why most younger veterans don't or have not joined is because1. Initially when a young person thinks of these organizations they see people who have served for over 10+ years and belive that their short term of service does not add up to that standard. 2. They didn't know that they could join. Just a thought.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Feb 8 at 2015 11:32 PM

2015-02-08T23:32:38-05:00

Because they are old and out touch, and don't want to change. I am a post Vietnam veteran with more combat experience than most Vietnam Vets, and while I thank them all, and thankful for them all, I don't think they want the younger generations around. They like the old smoke filled bar, the war stories, and don't seem to want change or us.

Response by LTC Paul Turevon made Feb 9 at 2015 9:23 AM

2015-02-09T09:23:55-05:00

This is a great question. I am a member of the American Legion, the VFW as well as the Knights of Columbus. The general perception that I hear from a lot of people is that these organizations are a “bunch of old men sitting around drinking beer.” There is a statement that I have heard several times that the older generation joined civic organizations but the younger generation joins causes. The younger veterans will not just simply seek out and join these organizations unless they have a compelling reason where they understand how they can benefit and how they can contribute. You need to reach out to them and connect; it is a farming activity. I also find that they younger generation wants to have a direct line of sight into the value that is added. When you present activities that are national in nature such as contributed X hours and Y dollars, they tend not to draw a connection. There is a bumper sticker that you regularly see on cars, “think globally and act locally” and I believe that applies here. If younger veterans are going to commit time to an organization, they want to believe they are making a difference so I find it is much more effective to present local accomplishments and charitable works. There is an message on the VFW web site where the National Commander John W. Stroud touches on this very issue. Here is the link:

http://www.vfw.org/News-and-Events/Articles/2014-Articles/VFW-NATIONAL-COMMANDER-PUTS-POSTS-ON-NOTICE/

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2015 8:40 PM

2015-02-09T20:40:26-05:00

Comment

MSG Stephen Oles

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MSG Stephen Oles,

MSG

I have been a member of several American Legion posts for over 30 yrs. due to the course of different military re-locations. I was active in some and just paid dues to remain a member in others due to a feeling of maybe I don't belong. I joined way back when Vietnam vets were treated somewhat less welcomed.

I have written letters to both local and national levels of the AL, and dropped off letters to local posts during my retirement travels, requesting them to petition the Al to amend the preamble to include all veterans by including the following.

Part of the preamble includes the words " great wars". With all do respect to those who fought so gallantly in WWII, there hasn't been a " Congressionally" declared war since WWII.

I have requested that the words "and conflicts" be added to the preamble after " great wars" so as to include combat actions in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Somalia, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, War on Terror (non-declared officially) etc., and all those other operations not declared as wars by Congress, although American blood has been spilled in all those places.

All Honorably discharged vets are eligible to join the Legion, and I feel this action would close an invisible hole in the generation gap, which would make more of the younger service members feel more of a part of an organization that is made up of all "brothers in arms", young and old.

I have written a letters to the editor of American Legion Magazine (who did not print it) in the letters to the editor section of the magazine. I did however, receive a letter from National Headquarters stating that a petition would be required to accomplish this.

If you agree, have your post submit a petition to your state headquarters, who hopefully will forward it to National and make the change possible. If this is done by ALL Posts through out the nation, maybe change will take place and membership would rise..

Response by SFC Joey Jimenez made Feb 10 at 2015 11:04 AM

2015-02-10T11:04:09-05:00

Most young Veterans have no idea what the purpose or mission is of any of these organizations. Veterans get out of the military and end up living in other states other than their own which can be as foreign as a combat zone. My VFW in my hometown would be awesome to join because I know everyone involved. When you are an outsider to a community it is not the same. Guys in my hometown went to war together and they have a special bond which carries through to membership in a VFW. I went to a Veteran breakfast in my current local community and didn't even get a simple hello which caused an empty feeling inside my heart.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Feb 18 at 2015 1:10 PM

2015-02-18T13:10:21-05:00

For me, I don't go because their meeting places and family functions reek of tobacco smoke and alcohol. For most others, they probably don't go for reason that they don't see the value of collecting or passing on history and actual individual historical accounts because they don't believe that "(bad) history will repeat itself in their generation. I don't know that that's an actual reason but it's something they will miss out on.

Response by PO1 Joan (Tipka) (Plummer) Fisher made Feb 18 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-02-18T14:41:08-05:00

I have found that the current members here by my home are not quite into Females being "full" members. They say go join the Auxilary. Hence why I do not belong to these organizations.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 12:39 AM

2015-02-19T00:39:50-05:00

I am an American Legion member. One of the biggest ones I get is, I would love to support the organizations, (American Legion and VFW), but, I won't subject my wife, children and family to the smoke filled rooms and cafes. They feel their family values are different, and they don't understand why the older generation, keeps killing them selves slowly with the smoke filled rooms.
I was told that if the smokers would smoke in designated rooms, or smoke out side they would join and hold more positions, and come to more dinners, dances, and other events. I think we should listen to them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2015 4:49 PM

2015-02-19T16:49:35-05:00

I went to a local post after coming back from OIF-II, in 2005. The local post was very welcome to GWoT vets, technically, but they old Nam guys and older looked at me like I just stepped off a spaceship whenever I walked in.

I went to a couple meetings, and what struck me was how "churchy" it was. There was a prayer to open the meeting, a prayer at intermission, a prayer to remember fallen Comrades, and a prayer to close. It was more-or-less non-denominational, but that's not the point-- If I want church, I'll go to church. And I really can't listen to too many hotdog feeds, chili cookouts, and bingo games being planned before it all sounds the same.

It's too bad, because these organizations could be so useful to a lot of returning vets.

Response by Maj Egbert Dawkins made Feb 27 at 2015 8:15 PM

2015-02-27T20:15:46-05:00

What it would take to revitalize Patriotism?

This observation is in response to general questions I observed in prior discussions: I am overwhelmed by the amount of questions formulated by active duty personnel as well of veterans. This leads me to conclude that information is not disseminated well, from knowing that one can join the American Legion while still active to becoming politicians when released from active duty. I personally believe the urge to wanting to be and belong to something more than a service member is lacking…, that sense of pride of being Patriotic has diminished or maybe was never there. This degradation is probably due in part, that most military members today join to complete schooling and or to get an education. Other factors could be lack of 110% commitment to study war and the fulfillment of military obligations as a career.

Solution to the above may be alleviated with orientation; good pep talks from the Commander, Executive Officers and or Officers in-Charge on the subject of Patriotism. And in transition, SEPARATIONS must be able to implement programs that revitalize the outgoing with patriotic enthusiasm and to ensure that all members leaving the services are well informed of the different organizations they can become part of. In so doing, may lead to the increase of members to organizations such as the American Legion and to Congress having more than just 20% of veterans in its rank and file…. Also, in so doing, may eliminate all questions in between, such as the saluting of the flag to how one should answer or feel when folks try to ridicule one with obvious questions.

Response by Cpl Alex Whitney made Mar 3 at 2015 9:34 PM

2015-03-03T21:34:02-05:00

Great question! I think you and others nailed it though. Many, including myself thought of these VSOs as an Old Mans Club. I joined the American Legion 5 years ago at the age of 27 - 6 years after getting out of the Marine Corps, and after getting married and having kids. Now, I'm the 1st Vice Commander and truly understand the importance these organizations serve. It's not just an old mans club, but a social gathering place filled with history, camaraderie, esprit de drops, etc. The VSOs do a lot in their communities for Veterans, Active Duty members and especially children.

Response by Capt Logan Wenzler made Mar 11 at 2015 1:03 PM

2015-03-11T13:03:46-04:00

I think young veterans are simply becoming involved in different organizations. For instance Team Red White and Blue, Team Rubicon, The Mission Continues. These organizations have the mission to help veterans during the transition in a slightly different way. We get lots of projects to do, respond to disaster sites, engage in group runs/workouts, attend outdoor camps such as rock climbing/trail running. It's just a different beast, and offers something different than the VFW, etc.

Response by SPC Allison Joy Cumming made Mar 18 at 2015 9:24 PM

2015-03-18T21:24:35-04:00

I feel there are a few reasons. One a generational shift/change in needs. Example post 911 veterans are more interested in family events, women and children no longer stay home, they choose major entertainment that will encompass the whole family unit while at the same time allow the veteran to spend time with fellow veterans. Two, the words "because that's the way we always did it", we want to understand why. Three the lack of mentoring and teaching about all the VFW does, contributes and influences.

I could come up with more but that is a start.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 3:18 PM

2015-03-25T15:18:04-04:00

I am very active in our Veteran organizations but feel it is time for them to make changes if they want their legacies to live on. I go out of a sense of duty, responsibility and respect but I am from a different generation (age 46). My grandfathers were instrumental in my life so I want to give back. It isn't always exciting or rewarding but I do value the relationships I have built. I personally feel like these men and women paved a path for me and I owe it to them to have their backs when they need me. I do think there are a number of reasons that younger Veterans don't get involved in the VFW/American Legion type of organizations. 1. VFW/American Legion aren't doing enough to attract the younger generation. They aren't learning the culture or changing with the times. There meeting places are not attractive and are often reminiscent of the "good ol'boys club". 2. The meetings are boring and drag on. There isn't always a sense of purpose or advocating for things that are important to the younger generations. 3. I have experienced discrimination in some groups where they are happy to have younger women participate but refuse to put them in a position of Leadership or authority. Women are Veterans too! They served, sacrificed and did their part. Why would they want to join a group that doesn't value their service? There are also a small minority of men who still view women as chattel and treat them as such. Younger women Veterans don't want to be around a bunch of dirty old men. Most men I have worked with are great but there are a couple that I have had to put in check which is not very comfortable situation to be in especially if you are an MST survivor 4. There are more exciting programs/organizations that are being developed that speak to the younger generation of Veterans such as Team RWB, Team Rubicon and Wounded Warriors to name a few. 5. Most of the younger Veterans have families, work full time jobs and don't have time to attend meetings during the week. 6. Younger Veterans aren't being asked what they value, what is important to them, what do they need in order to help them readjust to civilian life. They want to be a part of a "team" where their thoughts and ideas are valued and where they feel there is some common ground. 7. I think if the younger generation of Veterans were approached differently they would be more willing to step up to the plate - ask for their help. Ask them to share their stories. Give them a sense of purpose and show mutual respect. I think both groups could learn so much from each other if given the opportunities. Our older Veterans could gain their attention by inviting them to hear one of the more dynamic speakers share their stories about sacrifice, perseverance and overcoming obstacles. Create connections that count.

I hope this information proves useful.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Apr 6 at 2015 2:03 AM

2015-04-06T02:03:11-04:00

The reason why fewer vets are joining, is because there is a stigma with these organisations. Everyone thinks they are for older people, to sit around and tell war stories. That is the furthest thing from the truth. The VFW, or American Legion posts needs to change this attitude, offer more out reach to younger vets, inform them how they can help them, especially as far as cutting through a lot of VA's red tape. These organizations need to figure out a way to appeal to the younger vets, give them things that will draw them in, keep them coming back. I have seen one VFW post do this sort of thing, VFW Post 392 in Virginia Beach, they offer themselves as a private club, they offer events anything from Karaoke night, live DJ's, and Steak Nights. They serve meals on a regular basis, practically nightly. Their door is always open, and they are very reachable. They visit with VA Hospital in Hampton VA monthly, they talk to the young service-members stationed throughout Hampton Roads/Tidewater

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made Apr 6 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-04-06T10:05:10-04:00

Wow, great topic. I am currently a member of a fairly new American Legion post that was organized and stationed in the University that I am attending. We are mostly newer Veterans and the majority of them are much younger than I. We are integrated with females and minorities; giving the post a refreshing ability for insight and flexibility. The membership is active in both Naples and Fort Myers and conducts many activities throughout the year. Its membership is growing (I do not have the exact number, but it is over 200).

I have had several experiences with different groups, as I have attempted to sample and make up my mind. I am 51 years old and was medically retired 3 ½ years ago, so I have a pretty fresh perspective (I think) of the younger generation. Anyway, I have been to several VFWs throughout South Florida, I felt that the biggest problem with them was the “Old Guard”. The OG did not want to change or cater to younger Veterans, they liked it the way it was, and if you did not like it, then so be it. When approached about providing hip hop nights, or market targeting the OIF/OEF Veterans, I was told “We tried that once”. That truly gave me an insight. I went to an American Legion in the Fort Myers area, and after getting acquainted, I brought up the subject of the changing landscape of homosexuals serving in the military that did not go over well, again the OG was unwilling to even entertain changes in their approach to the newer and younger Veterans.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 20 at 2015 1:28 AM

2015-04-20T01:28:55-04:00

There's a hard reluctance for today's service members to make that psychological jump. I wonder if this is a combination of factors. Its well noted how much more selfish this generation is compared to WWII or Vietnam. Also, in WWII and Vietnam, there was a draft and I still think the draft came down much harder, mentally, on the young draftees than volunteering does today. I can't imagine how hard that must have been.

With that said- I think I can speak for a lot of recent veterans that going to these organizations is hard sometimes. Its a sign for some that there is an end of an era that defined you. Now, you are entering a phase of life that seemed unimaginable. When that happens, it seems like yesterday I was 19 and all of this was new.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Apr 20 at 2015 2:21 AM

2015-04-20T02:21:02-04:00

once upon a time there was an organization called the Grand Army of the Republic - they were the veterans of the Union Army( I belong to the successor org Son of Union Vets, from Ernst Keller a recent immigrant from Bavaria after the failed european revolution, 7th Cav Mo State Mil) this was the 1st integrated society in america with many posts that were predominately white with black officers. Then the Span Am vets wanted to join and were turned away. Then after WWI a number of posts welcomed the new vets and threw out the blacks and called themselves the American Legion, one of the founders of which was Teddy Roosevelt Jr, WWI vet whose grandfather was a draft dodger in the civil war. about a decade and a half later at the upstate mills in New York there was a big strike, and a group got together to perform a concert to support the strikers, and the nite before the concert a group trashed the concert hall - the group was a combination of : the American Legion, the KKK, and the Amerian Nazi party. I'm not only a veteran, but 3d generation union, and a great nephew of a veteran of the spanish civil war for the republic - I belong to Veterans for Peace

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Apr 20 at 2015 12:26 PM

2015-04-20T12:26:16-04:00

The problem is that there are so many other organizations popping up all the time. Instead of working with already existing programs, new ideas have formed in the way of just making more organizations.

It all started with the first gulf war and the military's push for more service members and veterans to go to college. At first there was just a military rep on a campus, than colleges wanting to get veterans more involved, started their own clubs and organizations on campuses. No almost every campus has some kind of veteran organization or program.

Than with the new wars, young soldiers returning and seeing older members at the VFW's, AL's and DAV's soldiers felt that they could not connect, so many younger soldiers instead of working to improve things started their own organizations. Organizations like the WWP. In my area alone we have the WWP, 911 vets, combat paper, VFW, DAV, AL, 5 veterans programs on campuses, Post 911, a motorcycle veterans group, a PTSD group, not to mention the country and state veterans programs.

At the end it all gets confusing, vets can get some services from one organization and other assistance from other organizations, but how many organizations can one veteran belong too? If I joined even the basic organizations in my are that benefit me I would need to join 4 organizations, as a veteran that lives off my disability that means about 120.00 in dues. That is a lot of money for a vet.

Response by CPT Tamara Brewer made Apr 20 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-04-20T13:25:01-04:00

Because we are broken financially and emotionally by the time we get to the point of joining.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 2:28 PM

2015-04-20T14:28:16-04:00

From my perspective, it's a lot of convoluted reasons, and they'll be different for everyone. For me personally, I tend to be anti-social as I find socializing exhausting. I've been a member of clubs and frats and what not in the past, and I grew tired of each of them. As such, I've lost pretty much all interest in joining anything in the future. And I think this is a minor insight into one of those "convoluted reasons" I mentioned. A lot of my generation were raised by parents who pushed them into countless extracurricular activities, clubs, etc. I don't know whether that's how it's always been, but it seems like that's how it was for us, at least in my little world that I grew up in. Being involved in 3, 4, 5, or who knows how many extracurricular organizations at a time, for the entirety of one's youth and adolescence, is exhausting. You get tired of it, you just want to be free of it, you need to have some free time to be able to do nothing. Maybe I'll (we'll?) come around in a few years or a decade, but I would reckon I'm not the only one who's currently burned out.

One of the other "convoluted reasons" I can think of is the perception of these organizations being "just a bunch of old guys". I know some other people on this thread have mentioned that as well. Fortunately for organizations such as the VFW and American Legion, they have the power to change this image and appeal to younger folks, even though it'll be difficult.

But there'll always be the guys like me who, while I support what these organizations do, joining a post just isn't for me. I'm now reading below from MSG Wade Huffman that one can join as a "member at large". That's definitely something an anti-social, fed up person like me would actually be prone to doing, so I would think advertising that option more and making it more prevalent is a good COA for orgs looking to boost their numbers.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Apr 20 at 2015 4:41 PM

2015-04-20T16:41:14-04:00

Two years ago I went to my local American Legion spoke with them about assisting with a fundraiser for the unit and was told that the only way they would assist me as if I joined the legion. The fundraiser was an auction for a very unique item it was going to assist the local legion with membership drives as well as raise money for the unit event. It was a win-win but the Legion seemed more interested in having me as a member than they were with trying to assist in the program. And to be clear the only assistance they would have to do was they were going to put the raffle information on their website and request that the legions across United States did the same. Their final answer was they were going to let me know once I pinned my membership. I contacted the VFW and heard nothing. I then went to a local Masonic Lodge I did not inform them that I was a mason but simply present them with the same request that I had given to the legion in the VFW not only were they wanting to do it but resident place it across the United States they were going to do a silent auction and raise whatever money that we were trying to get for the item. They were more concerned with assisting a local military unit then they were with their own membership. I gave them a huge hats off and thanked them for all their help afterwards and have never looked again to the legion or the VFW. I hear all the time about shrinking memberships and how badly the VFW in the American Legion need new blood coming in yet this is a common occurrence with young soldiers some of the old-timers don't want the new guys coming in and disrupting The way of life. I am sure it is not like this in many of the different locations I'm just telling you the experience that I had with those close to me.

Response by 1SG Kenneth Talkington Sr made May 7 at 2015 2:06 PM

2015-05-07T14:06:04-04:00

Perhaps, as happened to me, they do not feel welcome when they enter the club. When I went to join I had to search for the person I need to see to join. When I found him I was treated as a second class person. I never did feel welcome as at the time most of the veterans were WWII and Korean War veterans. Those of us who were Vietnam vets were not welcome. It was our fault the war was lost.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2015 7:04 AM

2015-05-11T07:04:50-04:00

As someone that joined both the American Legion and the VFW, I have to say that it serves as a point of comroderie that transcends the age gap. Often times people people in these organizations have many years experience and can be a great resource for solutions that happen in today's military. Also, being able to talk to a group of people that have also been in and been to war gives an outlet that some (if not most) civillians would not comprehend. From friends that are gone (but not forgotten) to embracing the suck in a third world country, these people understand.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made May 12 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-05-12T14:34:48-04:00

I know I'm going to sound a little rude here but I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful to anyone.
The main reasons I think people don't want to join Veteran organizations is the perception of the good old buddy / buddy system, or the drinking and swapping sea stories.
I have been to a few different Veteran organizations and they were your typical watering holes filled with guys reliving the glory days.
Some promise help like the DAV, but the ones I met here locally are a bunch of talkers who do nothing more than talk. At a recent job fair in Oxnard, the DAV seemed more focused on their buddies than any of the other veterans who they did not know. They had some swag bags but they selectively passed them to their buddies. I got a business card and a "brother you should come to a meeting".
I know there are lots of good Veteran organizations out there but sadly there are far too many watering holes that do nothing much except collect dues.

Response by SGT David T. made May 18 at 2015 8:41 AM

2015-05-18T08:41:00-04:00

After I left the Army I joined the VFW. I didn't do too much with it at first but then I moved. When I arrived at my new location, I thought it was awesome that the VFW was right behind my apartment. However, when I went in there I was not made to feel welcome. Many members glared at me as they were all significantly older. I was asked for my member card anywhere from 5 to 10 times in a single visit. I finally had enough and stopped going and let my membership lapse. I figured if they didn't want me there then I really didn't want to be there. One thing I did notice was that all of the events were geared towards the older crowd, so that might be a factor in some cases.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made May 20 at 2015 11:38 PM

2015-05-20T23:38:46-04:00

I was checking my phone this morning and I will give you a prime example of why the younger generation is avoiding the VFW! Someone said it is because younger veterans are given everything! What the hell is that about. All veterans are receiving the same benefits. When you walk into the VA they do not ask you if you are Vietnam vet or Korea War Vet, instead they treat you that is even if you get treated. When asking for you to become a member or make a donation the older veterans are all about being about the veterans. But let a new group spring up and watch how fast the damn claws come out. I have traveled through several states in this country and there is rarely a time that a VFW member has approached me about anything. Just walk into any VFW and watch as the silence starts and the heads turn and stare at you. No one talks to you. I have been a member for ten years and the only contact I had was with the magazine and a letter challenging my membership. I was fine to provide them what they wanted, but This is the attitude that make me upset. Then someone comes along says we are given everything. I for one am not given everything, and I know other veterans in the same boat. WWP and CV4A have events that I am invited to. I get calls from the veterans with other groups, I was ask to stand and talk about something. I got out on a boat, I went to the stables, WWP has offered to pay for aquatics therapy to help me get into shape. These are all newly created organizations. Look at the history of your post and you will see that your organizations started with the same fire. We can't stand together long enough to make changes. When ask if someone wants to help recovery work from the flood, it was my dad and me and one other person from the post, there were no others that wanted to do anything. If your organizations are doing great things for the veterans then why is there a drop. Because older veterans do not welcome the newer veterans. Like all organizations few want to actually get out and work and everyone else avoids work. So before you start dissing younger veterans, try to remember these are the same veterans that you depend on to grow. Look at your post today..When it comes to being a forward thinking positive experience the next time a young soldier walks in just watch how you react? Or go check out the work that is being done by your VFW, see how many people actually show up and are in a motivated mood to get the work done. If you did not get what you deserve when you returned and benefits were not what you wanted then ask yourself what did you do to change it? How many letters have you written your congress. How many times have you without seeking glory done something within the community just for the sake of doing it and not for a reward? I am sorry that CV4A and WWP, along with IAVA have better outreach programs. Stop complaining and join these groups as well. I belong to CV4A, IAVA, and WWP. I am a life member of the VFW and I am the founder of the Granbury Cheetahs Special Olympics Texas Team, and I am still getting into anything where I see the motivation is there and people are serious about this work. Weather doing things for the community or doing things for fellow veterans, it seems to me we have more important things to worry about than to fight each other who is the better veteran. We all love our country. But if you want to insult, first take a close look at where this country is!!! Where is it going!!! and who is going to stand up for freedom. Every time there is a burning of a flag or a protest at a funeral there should be the loudest out cry from you. Stop watching the country fail and start yelling and getting attention. Wake the hell up!

Response by SSgt Donnavon Smith made May 26 at 2015 11:39 PM

2015-05-26T23:39:30-04:00

Well, I do not rate the VFW, but have been a member or the legion do 12 years. I do not go as I do not feel the need to sit in a smokey room while drunk old men ignore me.

Response by PO2 Darin Meadows made May 27 at 2015 9:04 PM

2015-05-27T21:04:19-04:00

Living in a small town doesn't help lots of older vet's with old ideas we all want younger members but they just aren't there .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 3:51 PM

2015-06-16T15:51:34-04:00

I came back from Iraq and became a Life Member of the VFW. However, I only attended a couple of meetings. It was a lot like the stereotypes: a bunch of cranky old guys sitting around, drinking, complaining or telling stories. I was regarded with cool disdain or disinterest, like I was upsetting something carefully balanced by being there.

The activities were/are uninteresting; bingo, hot-dog feeds, teaming up with the Boy Scouts to organize proper old flag disposal ceremonial burns, etc.

Then there were meetings-- The meeting opened with a prayer, then they discussed these above-mentioned events, then there was a break with a prayer, then we re-convened. We ran through a list of members who had died since the last meeting and had another prayer, then some final discussions, and a closing prayer.

People, if I want church, I'll go to church, okay?

The place just seemed to be repository of tales of glory days and lamentations. I'm not saying these old guys need to go freestyle rock climbing or something, I understand that many just enjoy resting and talking with their old friends. But that seems to be about all there is. If today's veterans are going to go to the trouble for a face-to-face meeting, then we'd prefer to do something more active and dynamic. Sitting around talking and complaining and drinking, hell, we already do that on the internet and we don't have to drive home afterwards (hah).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2015 11:44 PM

2015-06-16T23:44:43-04:00

Because we are treated as second class citizens by the Vietnam and Korean War vets. The racism doesn't help either.

Response by SFC Randall Beat made Jun 25 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-06-25T14:00:50-04:00

Hello "Brothers and Sisters in Arms",

I apologize now this will likely be a long post.

VSOs in general have a uphill battle against the current culture of our nation. VSOs were largely founded on an all but gone community culture that many veterans of previous conflict/wars shared. This is the reason most VSOs need to make changes to accommodate younger veterans, the old ways need to change with the culture.

Before I joined my local VFW almost 2 years ago, I did some research on the current status of VSOs and how they were fairing in the current national culture. What I found very quickly is that most if not all VSOs were shrinking in overall membership and many post were closing due to low membership and low activity.

I’ll give you a brief background about me to show you my prospective. I served 18 years US Army – Medical Discharged for lower back injury in the line of duty, 30% disability rating from VA, BA in Business Admin. – Marketing, MA in Business and Organizational Security Management.
I moved from Southern California to North Idaho in April of 2013. During that long drive I made a decision to be part of the community I live in rather than just live in the community. I decided months later to join the VFW in my community. So I looked up the nearest post and found via the website when there post meeting were. So I show up and as soon as I walk in the door, everyone in the room turns and looks at me. One of the members asked “Are you a member?” I replied “not yet”. I quickly got a reply “you cannot come in; this is a members only meeting”. I turned and left the room, a membered followed me out and gave me quick explanation why I was not allowed to attend and that he did not have time to see to making me a member right now. There were only about 10 members in the room and only one of them was below the age of 50. I came back on another day and paid my dues and became a “card carrying member”. From there I attend most of the VFW functions and quickly became a “pain in the arse” to many of the older members, with my new ideas and spitfire attitude.
Looking back I understand that many posts will come off with the good ol’ boy attitude, but sticking with it will often times overcome that built in culture. I also found that when I gave an idea that I needed to back it up with action and reap the respect from its success. Over the last 19 months, I have been given enough rope to hang myself and instead used that rope to make a bridge between the post and our community. Here are some of the new things our post has done in the last 18 months and the out comes from those events:
Hosted a Game convention in alliance with our local Game store
60 people attended and the event made the front page of the paper.

The post made over $18,000 dollars in donations and donated over $18,000 to veterans in our community. There were no 30% costs or administration fees put on this money. Every dime we were donated went back to the veterans in our community.
We supported Women Warrior Retreat and recruited several female veterans.
We planned and will hold our first Veteran Family Retreat this weekend, in hopes of making it an annual event.
From these events and activities I have learned that activity breeds activity. The older the average age of a post is the more difficult it will be to stay activity in the community. So recruiting members is and will always be the life blood of VSOs. If you are not getting new “younger” members, your post is effectively dying a slow death. As you all know many posts have a bar that at one point in time with the “best watering hole in town”. That watering hole is now all dried up! The younger veterans that would be considered the market for VSOs are in the stage of their life that they have kids and jobs, alcohol though legal is not the preferred method of building loyalty with a veteran family. In my opinion the posts that perpetuation the stereo typical of veterans wasting their days away drinking and smoking at the “Watering hole” is doing more damage to VSOs than anything else. VSOs must be active in their community or they will waste away.
Some of the ways a post can be active in its community are: providing a Veteran Family Retreat, putting on a month Family movie night, have a weekly coffee and donut (free) where all veterans are welcome. This is just a few ways to move in the right direction, I’m sure there are many more. I would enjoy hearing about them.
Since joining the VFW, I have been placed/voted into several positions: Post Jr Vice, Post Sr Vice, District QM and District Chief Recruiter, I also attended the state conventions, I decided to focus on my community rather than focus on trying to move up the chairs in district. As many of you know VSOs are a bureaucracy and that means “Red Tape” and paper work. After holding the positions, I understand the need for the paper work. My goal is to change my community’s view of the VFW and provide for the veterans in my community. VSOs are a community based organization and that being said they add value to their community or they will go away.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post and if you are in need of direction when it comes to a VSO please feel free to contact me.

Response by SPC Chris Early made Jul 4 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-07-04T09:27:32-04:00

I have joined american legion but i have never stepped foot into any of these Organization, nit because i don't want to but i don't know what goes on within them. I believe if we as the next generation of veterans knew more about it or even had an older vet as a sponser to introduce us to them we would go and preticipate more.

Response by LCpl Steven Fiore made Oct 27 at 2015 8:50 PM

2015-10-27T20:50:34-04:00

Hello,
I am an Afghanistan Veteran and have recently decided to pursue an active involvement into the VFW, AMVETS, and AL. Here is my personal opinion. It is actually tough to do this without help. When I signed up, I signed up for life memberships to VFW and AMVETS. AL has the PUFL program, but doesn't allow you to do it up front. There are ways to find a post for VFW, but no information on how to join a post, online. This means I need to reach out and pursue it myself. I drove by the closest vfw post and it is closed (sad to say). The next closest is about 25 miles away. I was able to call them and will be going for a visit this weekend. It was easy to pay the lifetime fees, but actually getting involved is a bit of a challenge.

Now, this will deter most of my generation, but for anyone that is in their 20's and 30's and are bypassing these old guard groups, please think twice. My grandfather was a member of DAV, AL, VFW. I am proud to have the ability to join the veteran groups I can.

I read an article that laid it out plainly. 15% of post DS veterans that are eligible join these groups. There is a 50% decline in members since the mid 90's. Vietnam Vets make up the majority of the members and are now reaching "that age." I get that a lot of old guard vets dislike the new vets. This hasn't changed. If the old salty dogs of Vietnam can remember what the the previous old salty dogs thought of them, when they got back stateside, it might remind them how it is and might help them be less surly.

Now, here is the message i give every young vet. If it wasn't for these groups continually fighting on Capital Hill for us. We would not have the benefits we do today. These benefits are not entitlements, they must be fought for, or we will lose them. I understand that the average age for some of these groups is in the high 60's and low 70's. The major complaint I always here, is that these groups are out of touch. Do you really think that the old guard should adjust to our modern way? It is our responsibility, dare i say duty, to pick up these reins and move forward. Got your feelings hurt for an old salty dog not liking the new way of living? deal with it. If you don't like the way things are, bring in more of your veteran buddies. We all have common ground and someone needs to preserve and keep these groups strong and alive. My generation needs to put their big boy (girl) pants on and get some tough skin and earn the respect to take the reins forward.

as for all you salty dogs, remember what your old guard thought of you and try and make it a bit easier on our generation. If not, we all lose.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Sep 27 at 2016 9:22 AM

2016-09-27T09:22:29-04:00

You want the honest truth? Its a clique. Unless you fought in the jungle hand-to-hand or knocked out tanks in the field, most people won't talk to you. Every one I've been to has been the same. And to be fair, I can sit and home and drink by myself, right? Pain in the ass to go somewhere special and be ignored.

Response by LCpl James Robertson made Sep 27 at 2016 9:56 AM

2016-09-27T09:56:33-04:00

I have seen American Legions all my life, and then joined one, but I don't especially see how they can be healthful to the veterans, what are the benefits of joining, except for a club like environment for veterans. When I got out of the USMC in the 1970's no one informs you of what your benefits are. Back then once you told the Marine Corps you were not re-enlisting they practically threw you off base.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Sep 27 at 2016 10:13 AM

2016-09-27T10:13:43-04:00

I know for me it's about not having enough time to truly devote to an organization. We kids going in three different direction s from football, gymnastics, and horse back lessons it hard to find time for me. I used to go to the American Legion when I first got out but I was single and had more time to spare.

Response by PO2 John Neese made Sep 27 at 2016 10:19 AM

2016-09-27T10:19:14-04:00

I joined a local Legion Post and the one time I entered, it smelled of cigarette smoke and spilled old beer, the food was not good and even though it was my local post, the first impression was not a warm welcome, I never returned and this year did not renew my membership.

Response by SPC Anna Larson made Sep 27 at 2016 10:33 AM

2016-09-27T10:33:32-04:00

1. I can't join VFW because I served in between wars, so not eligible.
2. DAV--Also don't qualify as I didn't serve in time of war.
3. American Legion--Don't qualify for also.
Basically I'm a veteran, but don't qualify to join most veterans organizations.

Response by SFC John Peters CWDP: BES, JSS made Sep 27 at 2016 10:40 AM

2016-09-27T10:40:01-04:00

I know most veterans organizations are non-partisan. But some members of local posts in my area feel the need to push their political agendas. I made the mistake of mentioning that I voted for Obama in 2008 and was told by another member that I was "unpatriotic and unamerican" for doing so. Needless to say...I did not renew my membership. I was so turned off by that experience that I will never join another veterans organization. It's too bad a few people have to spoil it for everyone else.

Response by CPO George Bass made Sep 27 at 2016 11:05 AM

2016-09-27T11:05:58-04:00

Not sure why, but I know why I let my membership elapse. The american legion post that I join only sat around, drank, and smoked. The building reflected the same. The group of people I am associated with run, bike, swim, and all sorts of activity things. i just don't want to sit around a grow old doing nothing.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 11:20 AM

2016-09-27T11:20:13-04:00

I would also venture a guess, that most of the veterans age 45+, who only did one enlisted tour, never served in combat.. I mean if you look at military conflict timelines... prior to the Gulf War, if I am not mistaken, Grenada and Panama were the only real conflicts involving major U.S. troops after Vietnam. Furthermore, many of the organization require combat ribbons, expeditionary medals, hazardous duty, direct line of fire, etc... and with the modern military, that eliminates a great deal of candidates, myself included...(Coast Guard)... It is not that I would not join... I can't... I am not eligible due to the fact that even in time of conflict, MY branch did not get involved in combat, for the most part... As an E-4 I had no say in the who, what, where, when, or why.. Those decision were WAY above my pay grade. Thus, the decisions of the Commander-in-Chief preclude ME from being a member based on their own criteria and rules for being a member... It does not matter that I joined of my own volition.... Or served honorably,.... The fact is, the antiquated rules disregard 75-80% of the would be candidates through no fault of their own... And many of the current combat vets, at least the ones I know, don't like or want to talk about their experiences, and avoid military organizations in general... but, this is just my opinion...I may be wrong...

Response by SrA Chris Hunt made Sep 27 at 2016 11:21 AM

2016-09-27T11:21:22-04:00

I myself am a middle aged veteran that belongs to all veterans organizations. What I have noticed is that several organizations are controlled by the older veterans and they resist all change to the point of putting off new members. We have had several debates that sometimes get heated over issues that would make it more appealing to younger families. Even to the point of saying children are not allowed in the lodge. Unfortunately, most of our next generation veterans are families just getting started. Why would they want to join if they feel unwelcome?
Having talked to several people, the conception is that the posts and lodges are for "old people"... We need to get the word out about what they really are and the important role they play in our communities.

Response by 1stSgt William Wirts made Sep 27 at 2016 11:34 AM

2016-09-27T11:34:09-04:00

I joined the DAV (Life Membership) prior to retiring in 2005 after 20 years of service. I looked into joining the local VFW but decided against it did not appeal to me for various reasons. It seemed more like a complaining club more so then focusing on how to possibly change things or how to help other vets. This maybe localized in the Fort Campbell KY area but none the less it was disheartening.

Response by Sgt Jim Weeder made Sep 27 at 2016 11:42 AM

2016-09-27T11:42:46-04:00

One thing for me is the costs. With a limited budget it is hard to justify the yearly dues let alone a lifetime membership.

Response by GySgt James Marchinke made Sep 27 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-09-27T11:46:59-04:00

Most have joined their own organization as did the Vietnam Veterans, but in time they realize their organization will end with last standing era of Veterans and join the AMVETS, American Legions, and or the VFW that have the whole spectrum of era Veterans and more members mean our voices are heard in Congress; one way to get them involved is to have what they seek at our Posts, WIFI, weight benches and open halls, instead of doors to bar area only.

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Sep 27 at 2016 11:49 AM

2016-09-27T11:49:06-04:00

I joined the American Legion post 173 here in Holiday Florida a few years back It is not a bad little club but it does have quite a few problems 1. You walk into place the morning to get breakfast and you will see the same guy's at the bar drinking and its 8am in the morning. 2. If it is winter time you will see about 20 to 25 Canadians having breakfast you will wait quite a while to get served. I asked the post commander about this his only answer was we need the money. Sure there is a big sing on the wall veterans first but this is not the case. I no longer pay dues to them and I show up there once in a while if a good friend gives a call and wants to chat about the old days. I could go on and on about this post but all you have to do is walk in and spend a little time in the place and you will see why no young Vet wants to join.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Sep 27 at 2016 12:12 PM

2016-09-27T12:12:11-04:00

It's a whole different club. Old timers like me never spent the active time in combat that the current servicemen and women are spending. If I had to boil it down I'd say even though I was shot at, I wasn't shot at every damn day for a year or multiple years so we are talking a whole different experience. Then there is the associated PTSD issue....

Response by Sgt Ludell Owen-Breding made Sep 27 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-09-27T12:33:25-04:00

I am a 100% disabled veteran and I don't qualify for membership in the VFW. Since I wasn't in a war theatre I don't meet the criteria. They need to allow all veterans. No matter where you are stationed the threat is there. I was active duty during the gulf war in 1990-91, stationed in Hawaii. We were in high alert the entire time. My brother-in-law is a member of the VFW and I can only join the Auxiliary.

Response by SPC Wanda Vergara-Yates made Sep 27 at 2016 1:17 PM

2016-09-27T13:17:14-04:00

the politics. My hub does not deal well with political drama. We joined AL to help a friend out. We left because his mess caught us in a load of mess we would just as soon never have landed in. We made our exit and never looked back. If I do join again it will have to be VFW and I barely qualify for that, if at all. I am DS/DS vet that never deployed because I got the cush assignment at Corps HQ and had a cush MOS that rarely sees the field for any reason unless the whole Army is out there. 75E was as close to a civilian job as a uniform can get. Meaning, I don't have war / combat experience although I have wartime experience. Hmmm. But ask another vet under age 60 and you will probably get yet another kind of story.

Response by SrA James Cannon made Sep 27 at 2016 2:02 PM

2016-09-27T14:02:58-04:00

I am personally a member of several organizations, including the American Legion, Sons of Confederate Veterans, and others. I think it all comes down to what each organization has to offer people, and how much time involvement membership requires. Some local chapters are not very active nor involved in the community which could turn some folks off. Others may take up too much time from someone who is busy trying to raise a family and earn a living. I think recruitment can help because some folks aren't even aware of a local chapter being around.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 2:28 PM

2016-09-27T14:28:41-04:00

1SG Okerson, I belong to several, but I am annoyed at the amount of Spam and marketing mail I get. I understand very well that the organizations have to operate as a business to survive. One site gave my info to the VFW, a good organization, marketers and I have been getting spammed by them and foundations supporting them. This has made me reconsider joining. There is a better approach to the problem as many here have given their ideas -- just don't spam or mail bomb me.

Response by SFC Edward Hall made Sep 27 at 2016 3:01 PM

2016-09-27T15:01:32-04:00

One of the problems we have in recruiting members for our VFW Post is that that local National Guard unit has more members who live outside of the city. This also applies to the local Arm Reserve Unit. I believe that our veterans organizations have to establish programs which the younger veterans can relate to. I think a lot of them look at those of us who are current members as a bunch of "old fogies" who are to old to do anything.

Response by SCPO Frank Carson made Sep 27 at 2016 4:21 PM

2016-09-27T16:21:53-04:00

I went to the VFW next to my home and the guys said what is Operation Enduring Freedom? It was like a private club and I wasn't invited...8818, but 2422 was very welcoming, but 2400 miles away...

Response by Sgt Jerry Genesio made Sep 27 at 2016 4:27 PM

2016-09-27T16:27:16-04:00

Traditional veterans' organizations have, in my opinion, become far too politically oriented, and often consist of members who tend to glorify war. The only political involvement any of these organizations should have is to stand as a voting block in opposition to any military action or war that is not in response to a direct act of war perpetrated against the United States AND declared by the US Congress.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Sep 27 at 2016 5:16 PM

2016-09-27T17:16:53-04:00

This is a concern. I am a Post member and mystified by the lack of interest by the younger generation. I am concerned that Veterans may loose benefits if there are no Veterans organizations to fight for our issues to Congress. I would be interested in the comments if others.

Response by 1stSgt Troy Seals made Sep 27 at 2016 5:20 PM

2016-09-27T17:20:29-04:00

My own experience, after my Vietnam vacation, twice, I was invited to join the VFW in my hometown. Went to the meeting and was surprised to find over 50% of the members were National Guard guys who hadn't been anywhere. Nothing against The guard, but I was under the impression that VFW meant Veterans Of Foreign Wars. Before young Guard guys get all pissed, this was in 1971. You young guys can Google how many Guard units were called up. It was before the "One Army concept.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 10:14 PM

2016-09-27T22:14:22-04:00

have them quit discriminating against female veterans. they were in the local VA clinic when I stepped off the elevator for a doctor's appointment and they just ignored me. they ignored me when I was walking back to the elevator after my appointment.

if they aren't going to show any interest in talking to me, why should I approach them?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2016 11:44 PM

2016-09-27T23:44:46-04:00

I would like to think it's the attitude of the post but mainly the attitude of the individual veteran. In today's society we are linked by technology through numerous of sources. I believe in general that today's young men and women want to join but don't want the responsibility to go with it. I maybe wrong but I doubt it very much.
VFW Life Member 1994

Semper Fidelis,

J.K.Kaupe, Jr.

Response by MSG Mitch Dumont made Sep 28 at 2016 4:02 AM

2016-09-28T04:02:08-04:00

Unfortunately the posts in my state were managed poorly and went under. The posts were more concerned with getting membership to keep people at the bar. I am a lifetime member and tried joining to separate posts in my state and had the same experience at both. Granted we served and have our entitlements, but I also believe in giving back to the community. I've never experienced this climate in my state.

Response by LCpl Bryan Ragland made Sep 28 at 2016 5:42 AM

2016-09-28T05:42:45-04:00

Well I cant speak for all, but this day and age the youth is more digital. I see a lot of Vets like myself basically tell our stories more anonymous online. I dont go to these service orginazations because I dont either have transportation and I live in a more rural community. They always remind me of my grandpa who served in WWII and that feeling of sadness because of losses both in and out of active duty. It is my past and it was an experience that will haunt me till I am cold in the ground. But it has made me who I am today.
I hope this answers some of your question.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Sep 28 at 2016 6:06 PM

2016-09-28T18:06:41-04:00

Well, if you can figure this out or better yet find a way to increase membership I would like to know. My church has been steady at losing membership and the most common reason stated is that they just don't like organized religion. Most structured organizations face the same problem - the organizedness of it all!!!

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made Sep 28 at 2016 6:32 PM

2016-09-28T18:32:36-04:00

Well, as an officer in Post #44 on Kwajalein Atoll, RMI. We have very few active member who are Vietnam Era or older. 90% of our members are post Vietnam Era members. But ours is different than most posts as we are located on a military base, and most of members are Vets working as contractors on the base. Most are between the ages of 35 to 65.

Response by SPC Rebecca M. made Sep 28 at 2016 8:49 PM

2016-09-28T20:49:40-04:00

I can tell you I've looked into a few of them (American Legion and DAV mainly), but I will not join due to the religious components involved in some. The prayers, the use of religious terminology, etc. I got out in my late 20s. I'm early 40s now. I'm a member of a recognized religious faith, but it is not Judeo-Christian. I also happen to be in the Bible Belt, which means if I joined and (respectfully) refrained from participating in those portions of meetings, I would be singled out and chastised. I attended an AL meeting once just to check it out and that happened then, even as a guest. I've heard it has happened to others I know as well in similar situations. I don't have the time, energy, nor desire to participate in that particular battle. I have a very good working relationship (both as a disabled veteran and as a professional also in the disability field) with my local VSO, and that seems to do just fine for my needs at this time.

If the larger organizations would at least acknowledge and even welcome veterans from different faith backgrounds by secularizing their meeting format (I have a copy of a meeting format script for the AL somewhere, I think the one welcoming a new member and it includes a very Christian prayer), I personally would feel far more comfortable participating in such organizations, being at meetings, etc. As is it, I am distinctly uncomfortable and thus have no interest in joining. I serve disabled veterans and the military as a contractor with local military installations providing contracted services which just happen to be performed largely by disabled individuals, many f whom are veterans. As a result of THAT, I also don't have a very strong urge to "give back" because I already am and have been since just about the day I was discharged.

So short answer: Inclusion of faith-based elements within these groups are my personal turn-off and reason for not joining these organizations.

Response by SPC Juanita Anderson made Sep 29 at 2016 11:13 AM

2016-09-29T11:13:34-04:00

Because most of the advertisement is geared to the older vets and the younger do not get you could say asked to join it "for the older ones"

Response by SPC Christopher Dunbar made Sep 29 at 2016 3:48 PM

2016-09-29T15:48:12-04:00

I've seen this type of post before. Some people running away because they were once redirected to the women's auxiliary because women veterans aren't as common as men, so she got offended. Buck up and prove them wrong.

I have seen the clique in other posts and that is a difficult problem to fix. Only way to get to that changed is to get in or convince those who are that it is detremental to the longevity of their organization.

Others don't want to just sit around and drink like some organizations do. The younger generations are more about running 5k races and Crossfit, color runs, etc.

The way to change it is to get into and change it within. I hope that more people consider joining American Legion and VFW. The more specific groups, like Vietnam Veterans and IAVA will fizzle out because someday there won't be anyone alive who is eligible for the clubs. AL and VFW have been around along time and have contributed to all the benefits that Veterans now have.

Good luck, everyone!

Response by SPC Robin Price-Dirks made Oct 1 at 2016 7:06 PM

2016-10-01T19:06:47-04:00

As a veteran of no war but the Cold war (78-84) I have been told that if I didn't serve in Korea I don't count. I live far out of town and don't feel like being told one more time that my service didn't matter by one more person. So I am Done with all the clubs that haven't accepted me. I couldn't even get a job in my MOS because no one wanted a clerk that actually knew automotive supply, they wanted cutesy eye candy for the front desk.

Response by SFC Charles Temm made Oct 2 at 2016 3:54 PM

2016-10-02T15:54:24-04:00

I think part of it is the changing times. being a member of one of various service orgs used to be a key element in one's life to help find jobs and be around people like yourself...the younger folks don't make longer ranged decisions like those or even stick in one town all that long anymore.

Younger people are even more mobile than my generation was (born in 1960) and roots are shallower. They don't stay in one job or place as long. That changes for many of course as they age so it may be that they will look at service orgs later in life....

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Oct 2 at 2016 5:36 PM

2016-10-02T17:36:57-04:00

I'm on My sixth term as Commander of American Legion, Post 208, Millis, MA. one of the things We do is for our local Veteran's who wish to join who are still on active duty We pay their membership dues during the entire time they remain on active duty. We do have many WWII and Korean War Veterans active in the post but of course their numbers a shrinking. Most of the current elected Post Officers are veterans of the Viet Nam War or Persian Gulf war. We have a social coffee every Thursday morning all year round and those that attend don't have to be Legion Members, just Veterans. This is 100% social, not a formal meeting at all. We have good attendance at this once a week gathering. We have also started having guest speakers with interesting subjects to get beyond just the formal part of the meetings We do of course need more of the younger Veterans to come in and take the reigns. I'm a Viet Nam Veteran Myself, as is My 1st Vice Commander . The 2nd Vice Commander is of the Persian Gulf War era. Our membership is still growing but there is a way to go.

Response by Sgt Alan Decato made Oct 2 at 2016 11:35 PM

2016-10-02T23:35:16-04:00

Your concerns are quite valid. The youngest World War II vets are almost 90 the youngest Korean war vets are almost 80 and the youngest Vietnam Vets are almost 60.
I believe that the cycle of veterans of prior conflicts welcoming home returning veterans was disrupted during the Vietnam war. Many veterans including myself did not feel welcomed by the then World War II era veterans who populated the post. Instead there was a great deal of criticism for the way the war was conducted and dissatisfaction off and blaming the veterans that were involved.
We can never let this happen again and we have to play catch-up to somehow re-establish the culture of veterans supporting those returning from current Duty assignment. it's incumbent on us now to support currently deployed veterans families and reach out to returning veterans.
With the current multiple deployments they are experiencing it is critical that we just don't tell them our stories but listen to theirs and try to understand and let them know we are all Brothers.
Alan Decato, Commander American Legion Post 87, West Rutland, VT

Response by MAJ Daniel Buchholz made Oct 6 at 2016 1:47 PM

2016-10-06T13:47:54-04:00

I joined my local VFW (3150 John Lyon Post) when I got back (it helped that my dad, also a member, offered to pay half the lifetime fee). I think that the VSO do a good job and many of the younger veterans don't understand the long battle it took IOT get the benefits that we now have (and if not protected how quickly they will erode). The two main VSO's (VFW and AL) have taken a long time to get "hip" and market themselves to the new generation (my post does a good job, but it is a post by post thing) and some of the new organizations (IAVA, Team RWB) have cut in to those traditional spaces. I personally have been mostly disengaged in my membership, but that is due to having my real job, my part (hah) time job (Company Commander in the ARNG) and two toddlers at home.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Oct 13 at 2016 1:25 PM

2016-10-13T13:25:28-04:00

I am in my 60s and because of my "personality", I just don't want to join any veteran's group. On the other hand, my youngest son, who is in his 40s, a retired veteran of Desert Storm and Iraq, wanted to join our local VFW but was given the run around. He finally got frustrated and told them where to go.

There are two reasons. I just never had the desire and my son got the run around.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Oct 20 at 2016 10:59 PM

2016-10-20T22:59:55-04:00

There is a veterans organization chapter not too far from me. After reading these posts and despite my prior experience with that one other one I visited, I am going to give it a try, again. Maybe, I'll join.

Response by SGT James Hammons made Oct 27 at 2016 3:31 PM

2016-10-27T15:31:33-04:00

Personal invite to anyone returning, I am in Hurst Texas and you can swing by and visit us anytime. We are located behind the cobra club before you get to Bell on Hurst Blvd.

Response by SGT James Murphy made Nov 3 at 2016 5:22 PM

2016-11-03T17:22:06-04:00

You know I never considered it because when I got out I had a completely different experience that the bulk of the guys that were in those organizations. They Got a Parade ... We got spit on.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Nov 25 at 2016 9:30 PM

2016-11-25T21:30:02-05:00

I scanned the responses and I don't think I mentioned this before on this thread.

Years ago a Marine started contacting local Marines with the purpose of getting a Marine Corps League chapter started in the area. I was called and said I would come. The city were the League was to be located was 45 miles away, but I made the trip. We had a nice dinner and spent a fair amount of time talking to one another about our days in the Corps. The next month came and I went again. I had a really good time and began looking forward to the meetings. After many months, we finally had enough people and the paperwork was submitted to start a local chapter. We continued to meet and we finally got permission. After a few more meetings, the leadership said it was time to start our public service activities, and that's when I started thinking. After the next meeting I talked to the leadership and told them I was not returning and I wished them the best of luck. If all the service activities were going to be in the "big city" I saw no purpose in volunteering my time to help those in a city 45 miles from where I lived. I left that meeting never to return again. I missed the comradely, but if I am going to do any service activities, I would like to help my community and not one that is an hour's drive away.

Perhaps some of the people here might have had a similar experience.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Dec 15 at 2016 7:52 PM

2016-12-15T19:52:10-05:00

Thank you for this question. I have been delaying my trip to the local VFW center to join. This wakes me up.

Response by SPC Rebecca M. made Feb 8 at 2017 11:48 AM

2017-02-08T11:48:09-05:00

So I've been on the fence about joining any of the organizations, to be honest. I've looked into some of the meeting structures and though I've not attended any meetings here in Jacksonville, NC, I do talk to all the organizations frequently at the various military job fairs and such that I attend representing my company (we are in the vocational rehabilitation field and hold military contracts which we use as training sites for our program). At the Veterans Stand Down yesterday, the local DAV commander yet again asked me if I would consider joining. As usual, I told him I wasn't sure if I could do so at this point. In the conversation, it came out that I have (for years now) been trying to figure out ways to assist veterans beyond the career transition work I already do. I've got a lot of experience on the personal and professional ends both with VA claims, benefits, have a lot of contacts - and the commander told me they desperately need female VSOs at the DAV. Apparently female veterans have said they're a bit uncomfortable at times talking to males about female issues if that is involved in a claim of benefit application. I loved the idea, but thought it was a membership grab in the making. I was told you don't have to be a DAV member to be a DAV VSO. Does that sound right to anyone? It seemed weird to me. I need to make a decision about accepting this very part-time volunteer position either today or tomorrow, as they have to send their list of names for the annual training (held March 9th this year) in on Friday. I've worked extensively with the county VSOs on my own claims and my husband's. I was not impressed by the DAV VSO I talked to first back int eh day. Maybe I could bring fresh blood and tech savvy to that office (which desperately needed it, as I recall). I want to help but I don't know that I want to join. Logistics are a whole different hurdle I have to consider, but I know very little about the DAV's VSO training, even after talking to their senior VSO on the phone earlier today when he called me as a follow up. Does anyone have insights or suggestions, anything? It's very tempting but would require me to do some shuffling (that I really need to do anyway...) , and I am very comfortable with the system, the bureaucracy, all of that. I want to help. I also want to know what I might be getting myself into if I accept - BEFORE I have to start talking to my boss about a half day off each week when we're already re-negotiating my medical leave accommodations at the moment. Ideas, anyone?

Response by LTC Rob Hefner made Feb 16 at 2017 12:18 PM

2017-02-16T12:18:48-05:00

I know this will sound harsh, but sugary words don't hide perception. when faced with perception, reality is irrelevant.
VFW = grey beard drinking club with ashtrays on every table
Legion = grey beard drinking club with ashtrays on the table and funny hats

I know, there is a lot more to both organizations, and I have at one point been a member of each, and have visited several chapters.

Both organizations do great work in Washington, and without them we would be in serious trouble. Most vets under 40 don't give a crap about Washington, they want a job, a place to live, and the company of fellow veterans to whom they can relate. WWII and VietNam stories are cool to hear, but better to spend time with someone who shares your war.

If you arent active on social media these days you are irrelevant. I just checked three local chapters, 2 VFW and one Legion. All had some kind of meal special, pictures of people over 65, a patriotic message or two, somebody selling something to Vets, and 2 of 3 had a Valentines Day message.
Put yourself in the shoes of a 25 year old Vet who is underemployed and lives in a ratty apartment, riding the bus because he can't afford a car. He has to be helped before he can help others. Now go to local VFW or Legion facebook sites and look for something relevant to him.

Response by PO2 Robert Scott made Dec 31 at 2017 1:27 PM

2017-12-31T13:27:33-05:00

I was in the Navy from '72-'78, deplyed aboard the USS Constellation. I was informed I wasn't allowed to join due to my active duty not being in an active war zone, even though I am a Vietnam Era veteran. At the time I was interested in joining the VFW, I had no idea there was this type of discrimination between types of veterans in the eyes of the VFW!

Response by CPL Michael Follmann made May 18 at 2018 3:36 PM

2018-05-18T15:36:21-04:00

WE SHOULD SUPORT THE AMERICAN LEGIONS CAUSE

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 2 at 2019 4:19 PM

2019-08-02T16:19:23-04:00

Maybe they less of an connection to the Military!

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Aug 27 at 2021 5:43 AM

2021-08-27T05:43:05-04:00

It is very difficult for that age group to find time to volunteer for anything especially if they are married and have kids. I think one way around it would be to market the membership more as a husband/wife activity to get out of the house and away from the kids. Even then there is the concern and expense with leaving the kids with a babysitter? Most younger Parents do not want to take their kids to a American Legion or VFW post because of the reputation it being a kind of drinking at a bar type club.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Aug 27 at 2021 6:20 AM

2021-08-27T06:20:26-04:00

I am not a member of any organization other then the NIA I do not have know anyone around me who belongs to anything that I am friends with. I do not drink anymore so I really saw no need to go. Perhaps if I knew someone that belonged I would join them and just hang out and drink an Ice Tea

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Aug 27 at 2021 7:46 AM

2021-08-27T07:46:53-04:00

AATW!

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made Aug 27 at 2021 9:59 AM

2021-08-27T09:59:24-04:00

None of you are right. I would never join my local legion as it's nothing but racist insurrectionists and this is not the diversity our young vets are used to.