Why are males afraid to correct females?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:07:24 -0400

Why is it so hard for males to correct females? Since I have been in it has only been a few that I see will correct a female. Some come to me and ask me to go correct them and some ask me to go with them. We all need to make sure we know AR 670-1 on the male and female end.

Response by SSG Jeff Principe made Mar 15 at 2014 11:09 AM

SSG Jeff Principe — Sat, 15 Mar 2014 11:09:46 -0400

Leading and enforcing the rules does not omit one gender from correcting the other. All must comply. That's why I loved the Military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 1:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 01:48:18 -0400

Lead from the front, SSG. Males should be able to correct females and visa versa.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 17 at 2014 2:19 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:19:42 -0400

If they are married men, question answered SSG Moore!

Ba-dum, dum!

I've never experienced the issue, as I treated all the soldiers I worked with same way. A correction should not be gender biased. I will say it is different to address a female on hair style, make up, those sort of things because unless it is something outlandish its not something that would pop out at me where as male with hair past his ears just screams - its a guy thing.

Now as for which way the toilet seat goes ...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 2:39 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:39:39 -0400

I raised 5 daughters, so it was not a problem making on the spot corrections for female Soldiers, however I always made sure there was also someone else around. Perception, presumption, assumption is the mother of all evil. In this day & age, anyone can say SHARP or EEO, and the big purple 1000lb ape in the room is loose. A previous RP poster asked if there was a regulation for a female to shave her legs before he made a correction. My advice to any NCO or Soldier, immerse yourself in regs, policy, concerning appearance and hygiene, especially where it pertains to female Soldiers. You treat Soldiers with respect & dignity no matter their sex, race, color, creed or religion. As an NCO, you're the standards bearer, that's part of your job as a leader. MAJ Petrarca, you bring up a good point, married male Soldier. Although I didn't have any bad experiences, I just made sure I had my bases covered. Trust me, you don't want to be in that room with that purple 1000lb ape.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Jun 17 at 2014 2:52 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:52:43 -0400

We all know that it is an issue with sometimes ramifications that could be disciplinary. There is always a perceived notion hat it is harassment or discrimination. I am merely speaking from 27 years of service and from MOS's that have always included females. I like to think of Army Soldiers and "GREEN PEOPLE" with no sexual gender. Treat them all the same and except the same from each of them. When I was a young SSG and had to counsel a SPC, I was accused of prejudice because I counseled a Soldier for crying and acting out at a professional development school house. I had escorts int he room for said purpose. It still did not stop the perception that I was prejudice against her gender. I would have counseled a male the exact same way.

The question about 670-1 is that most male Soldiers DO NOT concern themselves with the proper uniform and dress standards of female Soldiers. So they lack a sense of what is right and wrong and may not want to be wrong in making a correction.

It has been my experience that a Soldier and NCO or Officer who makes a correction regardless of rank, gender or color is being what we want and need in the Army, A professional Soldier first.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jun 17 at 2014 3:06 PM

MSG Floyd Williams — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:06:11 -0400

SSG Moore......Most male leaders use caution because of the high sexual harassment charges, I remember a female Staff Sergeant was given a simple order from a male Sergeant First Class, and right away the female got angry and shouted, "Are you harassing me?" A good thing for the male Senior NCO that others and myself was there to witness what had happened. If I had to counsel a female or whatever the case may be, I made sure a female ranking Junior or Senior NCO was present, it is all about keeping things under control.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 17 at 2014 3:37 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:37:28 -0400

The last time I asked that question (a SGT walked by a female Soldier with blatantly jacked up hair. Because he mentioned race in his reply, I should mention she was black), I recieved the following reply when I questioned him:

"Nowadays, all it takes is an accusation, and your career is done. All it takes is that Soldier copping an attitude, and accusing me of sexism or racism, and I might as well kiss my career goodbye. No Commander want's to look racist or sexist, so he'd burn me just for appearance sake. Do YOU think her jacked up hair is worth your career?".

I'm not saying he was right, but he did illustrate what I think is a pervasive fear. Guilty until proven innocent is a commonly heard phrase.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 3:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:52:15 -0400

In my observations over the years I have to these conclusions:
1. Some male soldiers are not as well versed as they should be in appearances for female soldiers and therefore dont enforce them or at the very least hesitant.
2. Lets all address the elephant in the room. These days if you so much as look at a female soldier too long you are subject to get thrown under the bus. Males have a deep concern that if they correct a female soldier (even in the most professional manner), said soldier will take offense to being corrected (often because she hasnt been corrected prior and allowed to get away with it) and will cook up a reason to get that leader in some hot water ie...SHARP, EO, IG etc. So I feel some male leaders haave a valid concern in the matter, especially with downsize in full swing.

What it boils down to teaching these young hooahs that the standard is the standard and that they need to follow them. Leaders, we need to educate one another and ensure we are knowledgable on the regs and policies set forth so that we are well informed. Lastly, and its been a big issue as of lately (at least on Hood), be professional and fair. at ALL times!
3 F's: Be FIRM, be FAIR, but never FAMILIAR.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 3:55 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:55:43 -0400

1. The female hair regulations are a bit baffling to a lot of male GIs.

2. I have had to survive accusations of sexual harassment, sexual discrimination, and even racial discrimination because of trying to correct female GIs on their grooming standards. And I am likely not alone in this- you ask yourself "is it worth the headache?".

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jun 17 at 2014 4:03 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:03:34 -0400

Because most of us are married and know better than trying to correct a female.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 17 at 2014 4:24 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:24:22 -0400

Why? Mothers, wives and sisters. You get beat up enough, you learn to be careful. This is why you don't feed pit-bull by holding raw meat in your teeth.

SSG Moore,
On a more serious note, I think many men are not used to dealing with women, in or out of the military, and are afraid of harassment charges. Along the same lines as doctors bring a nurse with them to examine females. There was a time in recruiting when we were required to have buddy, preferably a female, with us when dealing with female applicants.
I remember watching soldiers struggling with if they should help a female soldier? One soldier, most likely brought up to help the ‘weaker sex’ was killing himself trying to take care of a female soldier. I asked what he was doing, and if he would do that for one of the guys? Then there was another soldier, who was trying to make sure he was not acting like the first soldier, and he was going out of his way to not help? I had to ask him the same thing for the opposite reason. I think on this subject, I was blessed to have four sisters…of course that is not a hell I would wish on another.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 5:20 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:20:09 -0400

I notice this all the time. Obviously, we females know our own regulations and it is easier to correct each other. But coming from the other end, I've corrected males when they need to trim their mustache/get a hair cut. We know the male's regs, why should it be any different? Especially as NCOs, men should be aware of at least the basic grooming standards. There shouldn't be any special privilege if a PL or direct supervisor is the opposite gender, thus not enforcing standards as strictly as they should be. If a female goes to work and her makeup or hair is out of whack, any co-worker or leader should be able to correct her, AND know how she needs to correct herself. I've had men try to correct my hair but they weren't familiar with all the standards, so they turned out to be wrong.

Nobody should be "afraid" of correcting anyone, we all need to be held to the standards and regulations that were written out for us.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 5:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:25:18 -0400

Personally, I'd rather have someone correct me instead of me walking around jacked up! If my hair is falling - tell me. If my trousers came unbloused - tell me. If my ribbons are crooked - tell me.

If a Soldier knows that he or she is jacked up and get defensive when you correct them, then in my opinion they aren't meant for the Army. If they refuse to abide by the standards and/or just brush off what others correct them on, then please by all means, go be a civilian.

I see a lot of males say that they really don't understand the female guidelines, well find a female Soldier and ask them to help you understand them. I'm sure there are plenty of us out there who are willing to help you understand the female guidelines. They're not much different than the males.

Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 5:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:48:54 -0400

Unfortunately, there tends to be the proverbial backlash against males by females when they are corrected. I had it happen to me a few years ago and was made to apologize to the young soldier. I was very angry and disappointed afterwards.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 7:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 19:28:41 -0400

I for one don't have an issue with making on the spot corrections. Gender has nothing to do with it. If you are in violation of a regulation then you need to be corrected. That being said, do I talk to males differently than females? Of course, I do. I talk to both with dignity and respect regardless. I have several battle buddies that are female Sr. NCOs that I can call on if needed.

I think we as leaders need to be mindful and make on the spot corrections more often.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 8:24 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:24:25 -0400

Okay, we've all been walking on eggshells here and ignoring actual situations where there is a LINE that has been crossed. I'll use some scenarios I used in the Air Force Senior NCO Academy.

1. You are in charge of PT - and a female in the formation is wearing a correct uniform. HOWEVER, she has been genetically blessed with an overly-ample bosom, and the PT gyrations are earning stares and comments from junior males in the formation. How do you tell her to fix the problem, and what do you tell her?

2. Again, you're in charge of PT - and a male has been seen with an obvious "7-10" split (no underwear under his PT shorts)... and it's all scarily visible when he is either stretching or doing exercises on the ground. How do you tell him to fix the problem and what do you tell him?

I'll withhold my answers until some folks respond...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 8:56 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 20:56:04 -0400

Some are worried in this current climate of SHARP that they will be accused of something inappropriate if they correct something such as how they may be dressed off duty or at family functions (in such a manor that would embarrass their grandparents and make Miley Cyrus blush...). Others do not know the regulations as they do not have females in their unit as it is infantry or Sapper, etc. and then are moved to another unit or see them around post. Lastly, it seems as if the regulations keep changing on the wearing of hair, etc. That is not a good excuse but that is what some use.

Response by SFC Scott O. made Jun 17 at 2014 10:59 PM

SFC Scott O. — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 22:59:10 -0400

The day that all Soldiers take pride in their apperance and make sure they are correct is the day i know i will never see. Regulations are there so you know what to fix on yourself, not only for Soldiers to correct eachother. Open AR 670-1 and make sure that you are within the standards. The new regulation spells it out plain and simple. I have a nice power point that was sent to me about the AR 670-1 changes with a lot of pictures to help you understand. Message me if you would like me to e-mail it to you.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 11:34 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 23:34:08 -0400

I have no problem correcting females one bit. You wear the uniform and that's what I see. No one gets special treatment.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 18 at 2014 12:08 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 00:08:17 -0400

21 Years, I only remember having one female work for me. Isn't that a kick in the Head. DP3 and she was great. Only time I had to correct her was she got overzealous and cleaned and organized CTO1s Desk. I said thank you and don't ever do that again. I like my desk covered in papers. Couldn't find a damn thing for a while. That was in DC I worked for a lot of Females though and they spoiled my ass rotten.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 10:43 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:43:41 -0400

The problem with this is very much what everyone else is saying, the problem is not only that everyone is not aware of the female regulations but there are those females that want to call EO or Sexual Harrassment now a days. All soldiers have to adhere to standards and if you ever come across this situations have witnesses that can vouch and verify what happen in the situation to keep you from trouble in case those females put a false report on you. The army has changed and we have to adapt to the changes to be able to get the results needed.

Response by SGT(P) Michael H. made Jun 18 at 2014 11:13 AM

SGT(P) Michael H. — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 11:13:36 -0400

I didn't realize our NCO corps was so spineless. I have no problem correcting a female. As a Non-Commissioned Officer I have had to correct a couple newly appointed 2LTs and Junior soldiers (females) along the way, and I'll even throw in a few mid- to more senior-level female Officers and NCOs, and I did so in a tactful, professional, no-nonsense, regulation-quoting manner that left no room for rebuttal or discussion. Most were thankful for the "heads-up" so they didn't look like a soup sandwich, and the others knew they were out of line to begin with. As it is, if you know the business you are in, and are confident in your skills as a leader and a soldier(NCO or Officer), there should NEVER be an issue with correcting a soldier, male or female! Man up!!

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Jun 18 at 2014 12:18 PM

SFC Rich Carey — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:18:40 -0400

We are afraid of sexual harassment allegations
Women don't forget and look for an opportunity to get even
Political correctness
Chivalry
Need a witness......

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 4:06 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 16:06:59 -0400

to keep it short and too the point were honestly afraid of being falsely accused of any harassment when its not there, and the screaming of EO! is something we would rather not deal with. not saying all women would do it but sadly if someone scream the words EO the side is not favoring the male sad but true unfortunately

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2014 9:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:22:03 -0400

I don't see a difference between a male or a female. If you're messed up i'm gonna correct you.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jun 19 at 2014 11:34 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 23:34:23 -0400

Being direct and honest demonstrates the authentic leadership style that should be developed at the lower enlisted ranks and carried over toward career progression. If you are going to make an on the spot correction, be right first.

Response by SFC Michael W. made Jun 22 at 2014 10:11 PM

SFC Michael W. — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 22:11:36 -0400

The problem we have nowadays is that there are females in the military that as soon as a male corrects or attempt to correct them they will be quick to cry "sexual harrassment" complaint against the male. We all know that as NCOs if someone makes a statement like sexual harrassment against him/her that even if it is a false statement and proven so that NCO's career is pretty much over because it will follow that individual everywhere he/she goes by being in their records. I will correct a soldier, male or female, without remorse and in a professional manner...period.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2014 12:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:14:02 -0400

Prior to 9/11 Soldiers were disciplined and humbled enough to listen to their superiors and follow orders. Today we have a force of Soldiers and Leaders who take things way out of context. The standards imposed and altered to represent an professional and motivated military should be reasonably easy to adhere to. However there are some in the ranks who feel they are above the standards or dont find it necessary to be compliant when corrected. For example when you correct a uniform or appearamce of the Servicemember it should just be a simple roger and thank you. Instead according to your question it becomes a gender biased or racial biased debocal that in turn remains unresolved for fear of retribution. Regardless of creed, gender, religion, or personal lifestyle we all have arole to play. If your messed up you should fix it not look and zone in on shortcomings of the corrector. In a social media dominated society we have to be so saran wrap skin thin that unfortunately politics play much more of role than previous decades. Where was the Supervisor of the NCO in Fort Jackson correcting, or the SOldier that sat in her car waiting for the colors to conclude for the day, where were the Leaders who know better to allow a BDE or BN Staff member have her hair basketed around her head. It starts with superiors enforcing standards regardless of gender, race, religion, or personal lifestyl. Once the NCO Corps. was great and impartial for this it is time we bring it back and do what is right even if it makes us unpopular in the eyes of subordinates or outsiders.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 9:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:08:20 -0400

There are a ton of people who are paranoid of EO complaints.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Sep 11 at 2014 2:29 AM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 02:29:15 -0400

It goes both ways. We are all most familiar with the regulations that pertain to our own appearance, less so with those for the other sex. I have seen both males and females ask others for clarification before correcting someone, to ensure that they were in the right and the individual actually needed to be corrected.

Because females are a much smaller portion of the military, you see males failing to correct females more often. Also, if the male is coming from a specialty where females are extremely rare or non-existent, they may never have had to deal with female regulations.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2014 7:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:03:11 -0400

EO. Simplest and easiest answer.
Historically when a male corrects a female soldier and EO complaint appears. Valid or invalid doesn't matter once that monster appears.
My professional opinion based on past investigations ?
That Male soldier already has or is trying to get with that female soldier and doesn't want to ruin it.
As I reminded my male leaders, you cannot have intimate relations with a soldier on the weekend and expect them to follow you at work.
As for asking a female NCO to handle it, well that's just a CYA move because you are less likely to have a complaint filed against you.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Sep 11 at 2014 3:08 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:08:56 -0400

Because things can get real messy real quick.

When I was a Sgt on Instructor Duty teaching Avionics to young Sailors and Marines, we had a WM that didn't like wearing a bra and when they would get in the lab (which was A/C'd for the equipment) and take their cammie blouses off... well, you can imagine what was visible through that T-Shirt.

All the instructors in my section were male and I was the only Marine covering TACAN and so I was elected to bring the subject up with her, seeing as she was a WM.

So I call her over to the instructor desk and ask her if she was missing any part of her uniform, and she responds, "Oh, you mean my bra?" to which I responded, "Well, it's apparent you aren't wearing one and that could be distracting to the others." She insisted it wasn't, and the other students saw me discussing with her and they kind of saw it coming so they weren't paying attention to the lab and were just listening in as hard as they could... being nosy. And the other students started defending her saying it didn't bother them. So I let her go back to doing her lab and later my GySgt comes in and tells me she complained to him about being harrassed. He knew I didn't harrass her because there were plenty of witnesses and it didn't go anywhere, but he told me to let it go. They didn't see it as something that needed to be given any more attention, because it wasn't worth pursuing. FWIW.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Sep 12 at 2014 4:19 PM

SSG Mike Angelo — Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:19:03 -0400

Why is it so hard for males to correct females? Because it goes against a man's life norm and conditioned behavior.

When a Soldier or Servicemember reaches a certain leadership rank, such as Corporal, Sergeant, or Lt, or Captain, there should be some professional development school to address this specific question.

For those that have daughters, and come from a big family...kudos. You are one step ahead. For those who were conditioned to turn the other way or pass the problem or issue on, I suggest you get help.

The WAC, or formerly Woman Army Corps is a good example of our traditional story demystifying women Service members, enlisted female or officer female. Back then, it was the 1Sgt or Senior Enlisted at the company or unit Commander level that controls the female role, time and behavior in a male dominate organization. Where there are stigmas, half-truths and/or rumors...scuttlebutt, it is stopped at the Senior Enlisted or Commander level. ... Back then...

Fast forward today...Situational Leadership folks...Learn it, know it and be it...

In making an on the spot correction, as in yesteryear...Be right first.
In making an on the spot correction, try to have a witness, but if you cannot and it is a direct safety to life or injury. Physically make the correction without bias. And then review it ASAP to that individual in a professional manner, so she understands what she did to put herself or others in that situation.

If it is not a safety violation, but a failure to repair, which is a behavioral issue, set up a time for discussion and counseling. Come together with a solution that best fits the needs of the military unit, and individual.

There is one thing that I learned in the military and still holds true today. As a leader don't back down from your decision. Your action cannot be undone and it is your story for truth and justice. And treat people like you would like to be treated; with respect and dignity.

In most cases, when leaders act like Billy Bad asses, there is always someone else that is badder or higher in the pecking order of things.

I recommend, for this specific issue of female military servicemembers...Go to your chain of command and put in for the appropriate leadership academy. It is this collective training that units respect and hold greater confidence in their leader's professionalism. You get the opportunity to learn from others in ways units cannot develop their leaders.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Sep 24 at 2014 2:05 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:05:49 -0400

Well, back when, for most of my years, men were men and girls were WACs*. There was no such thing as sexual harassment. Even towards the end when WACs were being detailed to other branches because of the lack of male volunteers, I never observed a problem with men correcting them. Most of the WACs were eager to learn new jobs and did not have a problem with the guys correcting them when they made a boo-boo. Now I'll admit I did not know the correct length for skirts, it changed up and down over the years, and minor stuff like that. But I knew the important stuff, like the modesty flap on fatigues should be buttoned, cords should be starched, etc.

*Excepting, of course, those fine ladies in the ANC.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2014 10:39 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 22:39:56 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I think men get mixed up and do not want to offend females and others have more ulterior motives.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Nov 4 at 2014 6:26 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 06:26:51 -0500

When I got to my first integrated unit (an MI BN) in the 90s, I didn't talk to a female for two months unless she was in uniform, outranked me, and spoke to me first. Even then I tried to avoid it. I was terrified. We'd all heard stories... "Man you'll get a sexual harassment charge just for talking to a female!" Sounds silly, right? Culture shock.

A lot of guys will say "I don't know the female reg that well" and will "go get a female", but I think that many times they just want another woman to be present when addressing a correction as backup or witness. I'm not going to pass blame onto any system or gender for this being a thing, but there you have it.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 11:51 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 11:51:02 -0500

Fear of a possible EEO compliant being filed is the reason.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 9:24 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 21:24:40 -0500

That one is really easy to answer, its called EEO! Any time I had to talk to a female about any issue I made sure that I had another female there just make sure my backside was covered. Fortunatly I had a retired no BS type female Chief that worked in our unit was that was always more than happy to sit in for me. She also wasn't afraid to offer some "advice" for these troops as well

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Nov 6 at 2014 3:22 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:22:45 -0500

Good question - my first response before I read your full statement was this question -Are we referring to men who are married or men who are single?

Being an older guy, I can see times when the basic element of communication gets tainted by how we grow up and where we are in life. Is the male concerned about being considered a bully, or being insensitive (in our own minds). It may be that if the woman has good self-confidence and self-esteem, that it may be tough for a male who does not have those traits to come off doing it well. It may be that the woman in question may be regarded as problematic - in whatever connotation it comes individually. I think it is another aspect of a world in which women and men often are not on the same page - so trying to get together on that same page is critical wherever we are in life.

Great question.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2014 3:24 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:24:43 -0500

One word: politics.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2014 3:46 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Nov 2014 03:46:11 -0500

I have never had to have one of my female soldiers go correct another female, but there is a problem with a lot of blunt and to the point male leaders trying to correct or discipline a female. Some female soldiers take what you are saying in a professional but brusque manner and turn it against you because you were impolite and not sensitive to their feelings. When you could and have said the same thing to male soldiers and they get it and move on.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Dec 27 at 2014 5:13 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Sat, 27 Dec 2014 17:13:42 -0500

In a supervisory setting it's because they lack the intestinal fortitude to correct a subordinate who needs it.

If there's a worry that there will be some kind of false accusations yadda yadda, use the rule of threes. Or better yet, have YOUR superior present.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 3 at 2015 5:51 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:51:28 -0500

I imagine there's a lot of hesitancy because of the difference intrinsic between males and females. This is a challenge for many service members in general.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Mar 3 at 2015 5:59 PM

MSgt Michael Durkee — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 17:59:17 -0500

As Capt Richard I P. already mentioned, this can be a challenge. Junior enlisted spend so much time trying to square themselves away until it becomes second nature that they may only be aware and comfortable correcting the gender to which they belong in what they believe to be their swim lane.
Once supervision becomes a responsibility, the maturity that should accompany this, makes it more likely for corrections across the board.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 3 at 2015 6:11 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:11:33 -0500

Many aren't as familiar with some of the gender specific regulations as they should be.

My first 4 years in, there were literally no female Marines in the Camp I was at (Camp Horno, Camp Pendleton). It was an Infantry Regiment. No females. No need for me to know gender specific regulations. That portion of my brain just atrophied.

When I PCS'ed to Quantico, I sat down and relearned the regs and made sure I knew them.

After that, the biggest issue is if I ever needed to make a physical correction. But that's as simple as "May I touch your uniform?" get a nod, and then straighten a sleeve, or a collar or whatever. Which you should do for any servicemember as a matter of courtesy.

That, and the institution is making a big deal out it. They keep reminding us that there are male & female servicemembers, instead of just servicemembers.

Response by TSgt Jackie Jones made Mar 3 at 2015 6:18 PM

TSgt Jackie Jones — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:18:10 -0500

I think as long as all items are approached with professionalism and respect- there should not be a problem. I have discussed difficult issues with those above and below my rank, and of the opposite gender. I have had less than "grown up" responses, but that is thier problem. :)

Response by Cpl Michael Stevens made Mar 3 at 2015 6:22 PM

Cpl Michael Stevens — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:22:56 -0500

I'm too lazy to read the other comments on here... But from my experience, a lot of the problem comes with the fear that the female can call harassment charges on the male. It's stupid but it's a reality

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 6:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 18:26:01 -0500

I don't think it has anything to do with comfort level. However I feel that it as more to do with Soldiers wanting to be friends instead of subordinates. I've seen when the soldier goes back and tell their first line all he/she says is don't worry about Sgt/O whomever is just tripping. My take is do it with tact and move along. Once corrected always corrected.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 7:01 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:01:12 -0500

I refuse to be intimidated, but I can see why so many are. Some get all butthurt over being corrected and go running to the first higher ranking female they can find and whine about how mean Sgt McKimmie was. A lot of guys don't want to deal with the drama. I frankly don't care. If ya can't handle being told you're wrong (regardless of gender), then you shouldn't be in the military.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 3 at 2015 7:03 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:03:29 -0500

I am not always sure of the regulations about what is permitted for females. I had to assist my boss about the hair down during PT because he was not aware it was now authorized. Thanks to SSG V. Michelle Woods for bringing that one to my attention.

I've unfortunately seen comments of supposed sexism and racism being shouted by the person being corrected at the corrector. I know that is thankfully not most soldiers, but it has been seen.

I've seen a 2LT play the race card against his (much darker) squad leader while in training.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 7:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:15:36 -0500

I think it is fear that's prevalent due to the hyper-focus we have on gender "neutrality" in the Armed Services today. Some of the "male" NCO's that I have spoken to about this flat out refuse to make an on the spot correction on female Soldiers for fear of reprisal (from the Command). In other words if you make a correction and the Soldier cries foul, then the CMD will punish them.

I chalk that up to training, or lack there-of. While we focus on SHARP training, EO, etc., my goal is to ensure that the NCO's and their Soldiers have the most time available to train on their TTP's in order to build a team. Esprit De Corps, Camaraderie.

When I hear any "Leader" say they are afraid of their Soldiers that makes me believe that the focus has strayed away from military leadership and is more focused on managing. Of course this is my experience and not all inclusive. Perhaps it's different elsewhere.

Great discussion question PO1 Private RallyPoint Member!

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 3 at 2015 7:24 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:24:48 -0500

Chances are it is a lack of confidence (he doesn't want to offend her) or just wanting to take the easy way out (wants her to do the dirty work). As long as we maintain our bearing and professionalism, it really doesn't matter who we are making an on the spot correction on.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 7:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:33:12 -0500

Petty officer Purcell I think the reason your male cohorts ask you to make the correction could be for one of two reasons first there are sometimes specific changes or regs regarding female service members, now for this they may feel you are more knowledgeable on the matter however since they know the deficiency I would lean to the fact of a service wide stigma imposed due to programs such as in the army SHARP and EO while both very good programs I think they may feel entrapped Ora's if someone could take the correction inappropriately and end a career. A quick fix for that is for them to know what they are doing is right as long as what they do is in regs and in a professional only manner. As for the correcting seniors I have seen this plenty I think it is mostly people afraid to say the wrong thing and make themselves exposed to ridicule, or in their mind punishment or job separation. Obviously this is not the case, as a pv2 (e-2) I corrected a sergeant major on a uniform deficiency, I think that juniors need to just make sure that they do it so tactfully and with respect and seniors need to make sure they are approachable.

Response by Maj William Raney II made Mar 3 at 2015 7:49 PM

Maj William Raney II — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:49:13 -0500

Here is the un-politically observance. Sexual assault and harassment have become a politically charged issue for the military. Multiple members of Congress and Senate have called for action, resulting in the Chiefs calling for action.

A few of our leaders, backed by statistics, declared that 1 in 3 females (in the Marine Corps) had and/or have suffered some type of sexual crime. The Commandant of the Marine Corps (Gen James Amos) made a multi-national tour to advise all of his Officers and senior SNCO's that any allegation would be prosecuted to full extent of the UCMJ. Commanders took that to mean fry 'em. A white letter (meant for GO's) was later sent out rescinding his comments, as the lawyers got ahold of it.

Here's the thing, I have served in a number of leadership and mentorship positions throughout my career. I have served with countless women, some of who broke barriers. I respected most, just like men, and disciplined some, just like men.

Your leadership is concerned with the outcome of a closed door session or a simple correction to the uniform. A sexual harassment charge is career ending, even if it is unfounded.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 7:49 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:49:45 -0500

I simply don't get why I would need another female to correct another female soldier. If I see an on-the-spot correction I address it. That should be the end of story. If she outranks me I utilize tact to let effective flow of communication take it's course; if she is junior to me I let the correction become a training and mentor ship session to help promote good junior leaders.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 3 at 2015 7:59 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 19:59:13 -0500

I can echo the sentiments of others on this list. As Radcon Officer on SHENANDOAH (AD44) there were women I had no concerns about, but there were a lot with chips on their shoulders, and they DID cry harassment if they were ever dressed down.

Because of this, with the exception of one very squared away sailor who worked for me, I made it a point to never be in a space alone with a Female Enlisted person. It just wasn't worth the risk...

Is this ideal? Far from it, but this was in the early 90's, right after Tailhook, and if you were a male then, you had a target on your back...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 10:07 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:07:08 -0500

When I was in (1999 - 2004), I didn't hesitate to help correct female junior enlisted soldiers within my platoon after the first few months. The unit was almost 50% female so after a while it became second nature for on the spot corrections going both ways.
But I only did that within my platoon, if I noticed something outside that I would use an intermediary.
Fear of sexual harassment ran high back then, I imagine it still does. Something as little as a name plate betting somewhat crooked (a chronic problem I noticed on large busts) can snowball unfortunately.
Even on the outside the fear is still there, after I left the army I was a police officer for a while and it was the same problems with name plates, perfect on the hanger, crooked on the body.
Now I run my own business, I set the dress code, but the fear is still there. Is my correction going to be construed as sexual harassment? Are those shorts too short? Are the straps on that top to thin? The final determination is mine, but what if her answer is "you wouldn't have noticed if you weren't checking me out?" So every time this comes up, I have to balance making that call against a lawsuit. In the service, you have to balance making that call against your career and benefits.
I wasn't going to mention this, but while I was in basic training (week 6), I was wrapped into a sexual harassment investigation. It took the next three weeks for someone who matters to look at the duty roster and confirm that I was on KP the day the incident took place and five miles away from the training area the incident occurred. The whole time I wasn't allowed to be near the female soldiers, unless a drill sergeant was present, extra duties and assignments appeared once I met the minimum standard to get me out of the area quickly, meetings with the EO rep, command, JA, and threats of dishonorable discharge unless I changed my story. Honestly, by the end I was almost convinced I had done something wrong.
I was just a single private back then, I had nothing to lose. I imagine losing five or more years of time and the associated benefits, the stress of maintaining a family weighs against the risk of a minor uniform correction being blown out of proportion by the wrong service member.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 10:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 22:41:17 -0500

It's the same in the Army PO1 Private RallyPoint Member. Many males don't feel comfortable addressing deficiencies in the female, so we get to do it. Woo-hoo and all that jazz.
But really, there's some merit in the hesitancy, no?

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 3 at 2015 11:08 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:08:59 -0500

A male SM should be careful when addressing female SMs especially without a witness. It only takes one false statement, only one misconceived idea on one's demeanor, words used and tone of voice to turn things around, and to twist around words to ruin a career. I have seen it in my 16 years of service that some females and a few males will falsify a verbal statement because another higher SM put them into their place.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 11:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:31:26 -0500

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member I think there is a difference between correcting a female as male or vice versa and that of correcting a higher ranking NCO or officer. I know from experience it was hard for me as a brand new 2LT (O-1) out of training to correct a MAJ (O-4) on his ribbons the first time I met him as he was my battalion XO. As I grew to know him I would gladly go help him out, but most do not see it as helping out a person but are too focused on the rank difference and afraid that they will be accused of calling them out and get yelled out. I have been very fortunate and I have never been yelled at for pointing out issues and was mostly thanked for helping them out.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Mar 3 at 2015 11:33 PM

1SG Cameron M. Wesson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:33:17 -0500

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member a good question! I remember making an "On-the-spot" correction on a young female... Because a male NCO didn't. When I asked why he failed to make the correction... He confessed that he didn't know the female uniform standards as well as the male uniform standards. I've seen that a few times... Sad as it sounds, it could be that easy of an explanation. Not saying its right... Just providing a reason.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 11:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:39:48 -0500

While many males are able to articulate regulations that pertain specifically to females, they are not as confident or competent in the practice of making those corrections and therefore do not make those corrections in fear that they may cross boundaries that can lead to harassment allegations. Making corrections on females is outside of their comfort zone and therefore choose to look the other way rather than do the right thing. In my opinion it boils down to insecurity.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 3 at 2015 11:41 PM

GySgt Joe Strong — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 23:41:18 -0500

It's straight up the unfounded allegation issue.
Males that don't know Female regs don't tend to know Male regs either and shouldn't be making bad corrections - these guys may be dragging a female in because they don't know the regs.
Everyone else is worried about the unfounded retributional, or misunderstanding accusation.
It's this kind of problem that is one of the reasons for resistance of women joining V units. No time to worry about this kind of PC potentially career ending BS when making all the many corrections.
No one wants to say it but it is one of the Elephants in the room.
Personally, I just ensured there was a view of myself and the Marine by someone else and made the correction. But I was pretty squeaky clean.
If any females want to say the males are over sensitized and afraid. Simply reverse the situation and think about how you'd feel about it if you could face not just NJP, but potential criminal charges to include sex offender status for correcting a males collar rank insignia.
It's a real problem, it needs a real solution. But as long as either sex is taking advantage, I'm afraid it will persist.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 2:29 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 02:29:35 -0500

Female souls are just as tasty as male souls...just sayin!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 3:23 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 03:23:41 -0500

Here's my politically incorrect answer:

GySgt Joe Strong hit the nail on the head. It all goes back to SHARP training and the climate our senior leadership has created. In an attempt to address a problem within our ranks we've created a culture of fear and retribution. A reoccurring theme in SHARP training is that it is all about the perception of the individual, not the intent of the accused. In other words, if the person feels they're being harassed then by definition you're harassing them. Reactions to any accusation are so severe by senior leadership looking to CYA that events that should be non-issues can become career ending. Even events that are found to be untrue still typically follow a Soldier after the fact. They'll always be "that guy" who had a SHARP complaint.

I've seen too many of my friends, subordinates, and peers get the worse end of this. A good example would be 68W friend of mine. He was a line medic in the 101st for years, including 2 tours in Iraq. After pinning on E6 and he was sent to a CSH. In his section he had a few females, one of which was pregnant. While leading PT with his section the pregnant Soldier tells him she can't complete the exercises. He asks if it's because she's pregnant, recognizing the physical changes and limitations pregnancy often brings. Long story short, she files a SHARP complaint and he receives a letter of concern in his permanent file. While he's admittedly not the most tactful individual at times, I don't believe his actions justified a SHARP complaint.

Being in combat arms I've been largely insulated from this issue. However, I'll admit I often feel uneasy correcting females as well. While I typically make the correction anyways, in the back of my mind I wonder if I'm going to get called on the carpet later.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 7:18 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 07:18:49 -0500

I think it goes the other way to, I've been approached several times from junior and senior females regarding male soldier corrections... And I won't lie, I get uncomfortable correcting a female I don't have an established understanding of. So I utilize my battle buddies to get it done. All in all, I agree we shouldn't have these hurdles in such a professional force, but the important thing is, the corrections are being made. To spin the situation into another example, let's recall the uproar when the hair standards were re-reinforced not to long ago, and how difficult it was even for a female of the same gender and race to make corrections, much less opposite race and gender.... "Unnecessary nightmare, with necessary corrections"

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made Mar 4 at 2015 8:26 AM

MAJ Haris Balcinovic — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:26:29 -0500

A lot of has to do with the stigma that comes with addressing female Soldiers, "what if this can be taken as some sort of sexual harassment"?

Personally I have never had any issues correcting male or female service members as they are just that service members.

Be professional and courteous and know your regulations. Sometimes you have to use your command voice (especially with the younger / new generation of Soldiers), but all in all it's all about the approach.

As a former NCO I was quite a bit more "in your face" about it. Now as an officer I'll try to find a crusty old-school NCO to make the correction, and if I can't I do it myself.

Response by SGM Ron Crump made Mar 4 at 2015 10:25 AM

SGM Ron Crump — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 10:25:29 -0500

Having spent my first 16 years in an Armor (M1A1 Tank) Unit, I had very little contact with Female Soldiers. Finance, Medical, etc at the Garrison Level, but not at Battalion and below. Then I was assigned to a Division level Headquarters Company. As the First Sergeant I had to learn very quickly what the regs said about Hair, Nail Polish, Makeup and Earrings depending on the uniform. Fortunately, the G1 SGM and the G4 CPT were female and they were more than happy to mentor me. They told me they hated seeing younger females bend/break the regs and no one would correct them.

The hardest part is defining what shades of makeup complement the skin tone and still be within the rules. And just as with the men hair style and length can vary based on the person. Another is what is the appropriate size shirt/pants. Believe it or not many men would wear larger size BDUs in order to hide a gut, or a smaller size to show "the guns". Conversely some females do the same with larger uniforms pieces to mask their hips or baby weight or smaller sizes to show off "that rocking body". But that may not be appropriate size for the persons size and it can be unsafe in the Motor Pool or in a War Zone. Being too tight will restrict air flow and mobility; and too loose gets caught when trying to exit a vehicle in a hurry. Believe me getting shot at will make you want to exit in a hurry.

I have read the other posts about potential harassment, ogling or inexperience. So the bottom line is that education and mentorship will go a long way. If you see a Male who doesn't make a correction it is probably because they are fearful of getting in trouble, they don't know or they are unsure of the rules. So take the bull by the horns, seek them out, school them; the Military will be all the better for it. If it is a person in your chain of command or your fear reprisal seek out a senior NCO for help and guidance. Only by addressing the issue head on can you overcome it.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Mar 4 at 2015 11:19 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:19:07 -0500

I remember a similar thread to your question in the past and to me it boils down to person's self confidence and past experiences. I will add that many of the comments I have read on the thread are very troubling and make me wonder about problems we have been led to believe were in the past?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 11:38 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:38:28 -0500

It's all about sexual harassment. It's to easy for a woman to cry wolf, when they don't want to follow regs. Or they come under the thought that they are just being singled out because they are a woman. It's not worth the risk as a man to try to correct a woman. In my experience anyway.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 4 at 2015 2:09 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 14:09:33 -0500

My guess is they want to avoid being though of as a pervert or worse depending on what they were correcting. I have informed a SSgt once that her nametape and branch tape were on the wrong sides on her fleece and due to the placement of them you can probably see where it could be easily taken inappropriately. Regardless, the regs are the regs and if you notice a discrepancy you should make the correction.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 4:39 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:39:46 -0500

Because for the last two years I've had SAPR sexual assault training shoved down my throat for about 80 solid hours of instruction. I won't look at a female troop outside of my shop let alone correct her uniform.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Mar 5 at 2015 4:54 AM

SGT Jim Z. — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:54:27 -0500

As most others in have commented males are afraid because all of the SHARP/SAPR training that has been forced fed down their throats. I also know there is a right way and a wrong way in making the corrections but at times the situation does not warrant. I used to make sure if I was inspecting a female's uniform it was either down in "public" i.e. in ranks or with the door to the barracks room open and if possible another female present. I never had a problem but I am sure problems lay in the weeds waiting to strike even if you do everything right.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2015 4:57 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:57:15 -0500

Mostly because they simply do not know the standards enough to call them out. For example, they will claim "you cannot have your hair like that," and the SM who is being called out says, "yes I can because of A, B, and C." The person who initiated the conversation is now a proverbial deer in the headlights, walks away and doesn't look back.

If School House Rock has taught me anything it is that "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!"

Response by PO3 Devin Gallagher made Mar 5 at 2015 1:27 PM

PO3 Devin Gallagher — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:27:10 -0500

Women understand women better. A guy knows other guys limits but only a woman understands fully a woman's limits. Guys are afraid of going to far and the next thing they know they are in NJP for sexual harassment.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Mar 5 at 2015 1:34 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:34:41 -0500

Um...unless the correction involved something gender-specific that would be better received as coming from a female leader (whatever that might be...?) I see no reason why there should ever be any gender considerations in a leader correcting a soldier.

Response by SGT Tyler G. made Mar 5 at 2015 9:23 PM

SGT Tyler G. — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 21:23:22 -0500

Short answer? Fear of a false accusation of sexual misconduct because the service member didn't like being corrected. False accusations are far too common for comfort, and too many people disregard the notion of innocent until proven guilty. People will usually side with the accuser, even when a claim has no merit, and that is enough to ruin your career and potentially much worse. If I'm correcting a female, I want at least one witness around, preferably also female.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2015 12:41 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Mar 2015 12:41:33 -0500

I think a lot of it is because the males don't know the female part of the regulations. I personally have no issue correcting female Soldiers. Honestly, one of the board questions that was asked when I went to the SSG board was about the female hair standards that is in the newest version of AR 670-1. Unlike some NCOs, I actually looked at the newest changes in 670-1 so I know what it right and what it wrong, especially since I have female Soldiers within my Platoon and within my Troop.

Response by PO1 Shahida Marmol made Jul 19 at 2015 10:39 PM

PO1 Shahida Marmol — Sun, 19 Jul 2015 22:39:47 -0400

The guys at my command say it's because they don't want anyone to think they were looking too hard. Or they don't want it to seem like they're bullying the female.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 22 at 2015 3:03 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:03:48 -0400

I used to correct females, and they corrected me as well. No awkwardness. Sometimes things got a bit physical *wink*, but meh. At the end of the day, we all looked squared away.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2015 3:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:16:02 -0400

The accusations can be based on nothing and be without merit but once they're made they can be detrimental. It can go both ways. I had to oversee a case where two individuals working in an office together made accusations against one another. I asked one of them, "What makes you think SGT XXX is harassing you. " The response was, "Because almost every time I look up SGT XXX is looking at me." Note here that it was a small office and their desks were positioned so that they faced each other. This accusation wasn't even based on something that was said or any physical type of encounter.... Need I say more.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Aug 25 at 2015 9:30 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 09:30:19 -0400

When I was a Sgt instructor teaching Avionics, I corrected a female for not wearing a bra with her cammies. Nobody probably would have known except that she took her cammie blouse off and was just wearing her tee-shirt in a COLD air conditioned lab full of electronic equipment AND other young red-blooded male students. I asked her if she was missing part of her uniform. She responded, "Oh, you mean my bra? I didn't feel like wearing one because they're uncomfortable." I just told her, "If it's part of your uniform, you're supposed to wear it." and ended the conversation. We both knew that I expected to see her with her whole uniform on the next day.

So what happened? She went crying to the GySgt who came by and told me to leave it alone. He was up for MSgt and didn't want a stink to be made on his watch and him get caught in the crossfire of some kind of EEO complaint. He warned me that it wasn't worth it. I complied but saw it as a demonstration of weak leadership on his part. I guarantee you that if I arbitrarily decided to show up at the school house wearing my cammies without a Tee-Shirt underneath, even if I kept the top on, I would have been written up and counseled for being out of uniform.

As much as we want to pretend double standards don't exist, the reality is that they do exist. I don't think we are better off for it. Our obsession with PC is hurting the military and destroying America.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Aug 27 at 2015 1:00 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:00:14 -0400

Because sadly its far too easy to get yourself in hot water for correcting a female. I had it happen to me back in 1987. I told a female E-3 on a working party, in a not very nice tone of voice, to stop slacking and work like everyone else because we needed to get done. 20 minutes later one of the PO3's from the office came over and said that the Chief and Senior Chief wanted to see me ASAP.
I was told that the female E-3 said I had sexually propositioned her in exchange for being released from the working party. That was the start of 6 months of hell.
So you can see why some might fear correcting females, it should not be that way but sadly there are lots of scammers, male and female, out there.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Aug 27 at 2015 1:28 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:28:00 -0400

Who said that? Hell, if they fu-k up, then they should be told and corrected just like any other male person. After all, if they want to play in this world then they should have no special treatment and everyone is treated alike. What's fair for one is fair for everybody!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2016 1:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Feb 2016 01:44:08 -0500

Sergeant some Service Members can't take being corrected,So they go cry SHARP or EO, which if the right things are said that can end or ruin the Male SM career. We at least as an Army are so SHARP/EO weary that we can't square each other away without fear of repercussions. That being said there still is Discrimination and there still is Sexual Harassment/Assault going on, but when it affects how we do business then something is amiss.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Monk made Oct 3 at 2017 5:52 PM

SSG Jeffrey Monk — Tue, 03 Oct 2017 17:52:38 -0400

I never had to much of an issue with correcting my Female SM, but I can tell you as a 21 year old sergeant I was scared as S%#T to try lining up her ribbons and badges. She was great about it even teased me a bit afterward due to my blushing. But it tends to sit in the back of most males minds especially those of us who served most of our time in all male units.