Why are NCO’s okay with sugarcoating the outcomes of certain situation regarding junior soldiers?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 18:24:58 -0500

If you are an NCO, and your NCO induction stated you are to be honest with your soldiers and not leave them uniformed, why are y’all getting upset when truthful answers come off as brash or not “NCO-like”?

As an NCO, we are not in the business of creating friendships but in the business of leading soldiers. If you are honest to the soldier of the potential outcome, they are far more likely to trust you down the road. If you lie to them or are not honest with them, then you are negatively effecting mission readiness and you now have a soldier that may not listen to you.

So what do you do? Are you honest with them so that they know, which may result in them getting upset at first, or do you sugar coat the outcome to not upset them at first?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2020 6:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 18:30:44 -0500

I mean, that’s pretty vague...

I try as much as possible to give them every possible outcome according to my knowledge then follow up with any questions. Depending on the situation (and to an extent the soldier) I may offer my view on what outcome is most likely

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jan 18 at 2020 8:16 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:16:33 -0500

This thread makes me remember how fortunate I was as a junior officer to have amazing NCOs in my platoon and battery. Some of the best NCOs in the Army. They were worth more than their weight in gold.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2020 8:29 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:29:18 -0500

You literally made another post in regards to my reply when you told a PFC that she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant and that you recommend that she should start a chapter 8 when that has nothing to do with her question. Lmao. If you believe that’s the correct way to handle things as an NCO, I’m not sure what there is left to say other that you need to re-evaluate your leadership capabilities. I know many single mothers in the Army that are doing fantastic things and it’s good they don’t listen to an NCO that shames them for getting pregnant and suggests to start a chapter packet.

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Jan 18 at 2020 8:47 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:47:22 -0500

From what I’ve been told, I’m loved (mostly) by those I lead for my candor and honesty.

Those above me, for the most part, don’t like it and it shows. I’ve never kissed ass and I’ll be damned if I start now.

Not here to make friends. That goes both ways.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jan 18 at 2020 8:56 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:56:08 -0500

You need to learn your people every where you go and lead. Some will react best with ball busting others will report you. Nothing has changed there, just how people take reports. Once upon a time, if you ball busted and they complained, they investigated and went with the outcome of the investigation. Today they remove first. You should be learning your people anyways as a leader.

Response by SPC Richard Zacke made Jan 18 at 2020 8:59 PM

SPC Richard Zacke — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 20:59:28 -0500

You can't go wrong being honest with your NCO or vice verse. If an NCO loses the trust of his troops missions will suffer, lifes could be lost. So if you think your NCO is being rude or brash in giving orders take it like a trooper because 9 times out of 10 they are just attempting to get the orders understood. And if you notice the platoon screw-up not paying attention straiten him out after formation and if he blows you off report it to your NCO before the mission,it just may save your life.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 18 at 2020 9:04 PM

CPL Gary Pifer — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 21:04:52 -0500

One day the sugar coating may come off and your people are in bags and hospitals.. Thank God this is your problem... bring doughnuts.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2020 9:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 21:33:40 -0500

I don't believe you are going to receive many soft responses from the crowd around here. I may be wrong. Jump their butt knee deep and straighten their ass out, that’s what your getting paid for. MHO

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2020 9:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 21:49:34 -0500

There’s a difference between being honest and being judgemental. It is not your place to tell a Soldier she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant simply because she asked if she would be allowed to live off base or would she have to live in the barracks.

If you’re going to ask a question, make sure you give the complete story versus telling the story to get people to validate your response in which they know nothing about.
Soldiers come on here for professional guidance and junior soldiers come on here to ask questions on things they simply just don’t know. Having tact and respecting someone’s decision to start their family has nothing to do with building friendships, it’s about respecting their choice. So be careful how you deliver your response when you answer Soldiers questions.

Response by CSM Felipe Mendez made Jan 18 at 2020 10:56 PM

CSM Felipe Mendez — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 22:56:32 -0500

As a NCO, it is our responsibility to be honest/truthful with our soldiers. They look up to us as leaders to guide them in the right direction.. at the same time, when they get themselves in the wrong path, it is our duty to get them back, even if we have to use the UCMJ process. A good soldier, finds a leaders that stand by his side always, but, when that good soldiers goes bad... such leader disappears.. I called them “ spot light NCOs”, they shine when things are good and job is easy, but, when shit hits the fan.. they aren’t nowhere to be found.. if a leader, takes time to know each one of his soldiers.... he (NCO) knows how to approach each soldier individually without worrying about hurting anyone’s Feelings.. best way to keep soldiers engage is to be truthful, honest and keep them inform daily on units mission and provide them information that may affect their daily routine

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2020 11:04 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 23:04:20 -0500

As a first line supervisor, all the way up the chain, being honest and upfront with an individual soldier on any issue is very important, regardless of how they may react. Sugarcoating anything is difficult, but if it seems harder to break news to someone, you must mind your tact and understand that soldier and know what will break through to them for them to best understand what you are trying to convey without totally breaking someone down. The ability to break hard news, but still motivate a soldier is a skill, and a skill worth learning and mastering, just as any soldier's ability to be tactful in the way they convey information to a superior.

Response by CSM Felipe Mendez made Jan 18 at 2020 11:42 PM

CSM Felipe Mendez — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 23:42:33 -0500

Sometimes can be the overall inexperience, or the inexperience on how to handle the soldier’s reaction

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 19 at 2020 7:48 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 07:48:15 -0500

Your descriimptuin is unclear. If I read it correctly, NCOs should keep their Soldiers informed. It is the delivery of the message. Orders cannot be unlawful, if they are lawful and you don’t like it, it is not the NCO’s place to complain or speak ill of those issuing the order. It is the place of the NCO to follow the order and issue it in a way that reflects and contributes to good order and discipline. When an NCO articulates their negative feelings about a lawful order, they are then in violation by have a negative impact of on good order and discipline.

If the order is unlawful it is simple, the NCO takes that order and evidence of it being unlawful, and presents it to other leaders, not Junior Soldiers and confronts the leader who has issued such an order. If the leader fails to recognize the error in their judgement, it goes to the next level.

Never, in any way does an NCO articulations negative feelings to Sokdiers regarding lawful orders. When you portray a stupid, yet lawful order in a negative manner you again, are in violation yourself. Read and thoroughly evaluate the creed you reference, balance those valuable, insightful components with the UCMJ, and the oath taken when you enlist, or re-enlist. Follow the orders of those appointed over you.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jan 19 at 2020 10:48 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 10:48:08 -0500

Sugar coating, that is a unique word. You get more honey than vinegar. By that I mean you don't have to be a hard ass to rectify a problem. To fix the problem, get with the individual and allow them to be part of the problem solving solution.
You will in most cases get better results

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2020 11:06 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:06:19 -0500

I try to give as much information as possible but I am also very blunt, when they fuck up I tell them why they did and how to fix it and when they work hard I tell them I appreciate it. I always try to build an understanding but not a friendship. Honesty is definitely the best policy in my view. There is also many other factors of leadership that will decide if the soldier listens to you or not though. There are also many ways to deliver the truth to someone without causing offense.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Jan 19 at 2020 12:11 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:11:56 -0500

If it came to keeping informed, I don't care how I got information sugar coat or not, when it came to important stuff. The question is a little vague though, can you give an example to get a better answer?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 19 at 2020 12:19 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:19:31 -0500

The question is a little vague, but if you're trying to get a leadership lesson I'll give it a shot.

This seems to have to do with telling the truth and tact. For example, in truth a Soldier may be a complete screw up and deserve to be booted out of the Service. How to tell them? You can tell them straight out what a hot mess they are and demand they change today or you'll UCMJ their ass. This might work. It might even be the right approach for some people.

Sometimes it's necessary to communicate in a kinder way. Maybe you need to determine why the Soldier is a complete screw up in the first place. Is it a personal issue, a training issue, or even a medical or psychological issue. You can still communicate that their performance of late has been below standard and explain how it's below standard. Additionally, you might offer an opportunity for them to improve. Of course making the opportunity to improve, which might require hard work, more attractive is the threat of disciplinary action or being removed from the Service. This approach still requires straight talk, but it's fact based and has a fair to good chance of getting the Soldier to try to improve.

Keep in mind what you can't say and who you are. Your can't show any type of discrimination or derogatory comments about any protected group. You aren't a doctor or psychologist, but you can send the Soldier for medical evaluation.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 19 at 2020 12:32 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:32:48 -0500

Departing from the truth will morally bankrupt the organization as it will create an alternate reality. IMO a leader who lies is a spineless person.

Response by SPC Richard Zacke made Jan 19 at 2020 3:40 PM

SPC Richard Zacke — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:40:07 -0500

Your question needs some follow up examples to make it clearer. I come from the old Army (1978) and when a senior NCO gave orders they normally came out loud and brash but this was not because the Senior NCO was trying to be an ass He was simply making sure that they were understood. Feelings are hurt to easily in todays military. It's not about you it's about getting the orders out. Put yourself in the Senior NCO's place and you gave out the orders in a calm and quite way as to not hurt anyones feelings and a dozen body bags rolled up in the back of a deuce and a half. Who's feelings would be hurt then? You are in life and death situations there is no more x-box....THIS IS NOT A FU*KING GAME ANYMORE...GROW UP!!!!!!!

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 19 at 2020 4:03 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 16:03:06 -0500

Most situations have a range of possible outcomes. Immediately jumping to the worst one and (effectively) saying "you are totally screwed" is no better than (effectively) saying "it's no big deal, don't worry about it.

So yes, there is such a thing as being too brash.

Response by SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr made Jan 19 at 2020 4:26 PM

SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 16:26:36 -0500

PC culture has taken the military by storm. Our enemies feared Marines coming ashore and NOW they laugh at that thought. Liberalism/leftism has taken firm control.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jan 19 at 2020 8:42 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:42:53 -0500

You cannot (TRUST) anyone who is not honest. Trust and honesty breed loyalty. Being honest, even brutally honest, is necessary. It can be a matter of tact and diplomacy too. Good leaders should never be afraid to tell it as it is. Officer or NCO we are not in the business of holding hands or wiping away tears.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jan 20 at 2020 5:16 AM

SGT Robert Wager — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 05:16:00 -0500

There is a difference between being honest and being an asshole. Leadership has been defined as the art of influencing others to accomplish the mission. NCOs can inspire others in a lot of different ways. Is it your job to make other people miserable? The NCO makes or breaks a soldier’s career. The NCO decides whether a soldier truly enjoys his job or hates showing up for formation every day.

Should you polish the turds for soldiers? Nope, but you should inspire your soldiers to enjoy the trip when they are going to hell.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 10:59 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 10:59:10 -0500

Once something is known you're either a part of the problem or part of the solution. I rather tell my soldiers straight up what they need to hear instead of what they want to hear. Granted some might get in their feelings but I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to develop the future leaders. If I'm wrong and they come up to me and tell me they don't appreciate the way I communicate (hasn't happened yet) than I need to evaluate myself and might have to fix certain things on my part. If you're coming from a good place sooner or later they'll realize you only want what's best for them, even if it's a hard pill to swallow, but that's why you're there to guide them and let them know they're not alone when things get rough. Everyone has their own tolerance when dealing with stress and no two soldiers are the same, do what's right and consult with your seniors just like you are doing now. No matter where we are in our career we all need help regardless of how hard we think we are.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 4:03 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 16:03:42 -0500

The Three Meter Zone: Common Sense Leadership for NCOs - CSM J. D. Pendry

Response by PV2 Wayne Grinnell made Jan 20 at 2020 4:58 PM

PV2 Wayne Grinnell — Mon, 20 Jan 2020 16:58:42 -0500

Because snowflakes can’t take the truth