Why are officers recognized with awards more than enlisted?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:16:09 -0400

It seems to me that officers are recogized far more often then enlisted soldiers. I mean an officer and junior enlisted could do the same exact thing, or an enlisted could do more then an officer and chances are the officer will be given a higher award. Why? I have been in for almost 8 years and only have 1 AAM which is my only actual award.

Response by LTC Peter Hartman made Apr 19 at 2017 11:27 PM

LTC Peter Hartman — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:27:59 -0400

Bad leadership. Soldiers should be rewarded for going above and beyond.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2017 11:30 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:30:25 -0400

Wow. Seems like leadership issues. Have you ever PCS? Deployments? Have you done anything outside of your duty description that distinguished yourself?

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 19 at 2017 11:32 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:32:40 -0400

A very reasonable question with a very simple answer. Junior officers, the ones in closet contact with enlisted personnel aren't very adept leaders. They are lucky to know how to do the simplest tasks of leadership let alone something sophisticated like recommending personnel for awards and decorations. Their immediate superiors aren't much better. However senior officers who are well aware of the significance that decorations can have on a military career rarely witness the accomplishments of the troops as individuals. What's the solution? If you witness an act of valor or a significant accomplishment that you feel is worthy of recognition, bring it to the attention of your immediate superior. Suggest a that they submit a recommendation for recognition if they're too dense to take the hint. Write it up yourself if you have to. Then hope that someone does the same for you when you deserve it. If anyone gives you trouble for following my advice, refer them to me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2017 11:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:34:11 -0400

Have you ever discussed this with your leadership? It may be instructive to have a conversation. Mention that you have only been awarded once in 8 years and ask if there are specific things that you need to do to get recognition.

You should realize that, at least in my experience, part time Soldiers don't get as many opportunities to be recognized. The majority of situations that allow you to perform beyond expectations happen during annual training. If you and your leadership end up doing AT at different times, or working different shifts, it can make it more difficult for your accomplishments to stand out enough in the eyes of a potential recommender.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 19 at 2017 11:47 PM

COL Charles Williams — Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:47:45 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member First you need to understand responsibility before awards will make sense... I served from E-1 to O-6. From E-1 to E-5, I got an AAM (Impact), a JSAM, and an ARCOM when I went to OCS... I could not rate a MSM until I was Captain, or an LOM until I was a Colonel and Brigade Commander.
It is all about level of responsibility for both officers and NCOs.
What do you think you should be getting?
Awards are not what you want or expect, they are what you earn. And, yes, rank does play a role.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Apr 20 at 2017 1:09 AM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 01:09:34 -0400

You made Specialist five years ago. What have you done since then to receive awards? Are you on track for SGT? I don't know much about the reserve world, so my viewpoint on awards and reserve service is limited.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 20 at 2017 1:49 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 01:49:13 -0400

My input comes with the "results will vary" disclaimer. First, I'm in the camp that there's way too many decorations awarded, way to many patches/badges, etc. My NAM had to be signed off by the Fleet Vice Admiral. That's how I grew up. BTW my NAM showed up in my in-box. So being somewhat jaded, I progressed from E-1 to O-6 to Command and had these percentage awards authorized. My policy was if I could do up to 5% of the body count or whatever, it would apply equally to ENL and OFF. It was more of a struggle to get ENL stuff done right primarily due to the crappy writing skills of the NCO and JO community. To make it work took some babysitting. So if you're evenly spreading, sometimes you have to make a determination that a pro rata split isn't right.
When you have Dets spread all over the world, including the badlands, you'll see more award focus there. Stuff I couldn't sign off on had to be staffed up and that meant XO and I were heavy into the write up. It's a poor reflection on the Skipper to have stuff tossed back. I batted 100% through MSMs. LOMs were prepared after I had a heart to heart with the Flag and received the go ahead to push it up. The amount of work, responsibility, impact, or whatever it is now called, had been diluted greatly during my time in and continued unabated afterward. When I was doing promotion boards (including O-5/6), the notion of EOTs was just starting to be mainstream to the point of reviewing officers wondering why one wasn't awarded given a must promote recommendation on the Fitrep. I knew the awards system was seriously broke then.

Oh saw a piece of COL Charles Williams sage input. Never fall into the "quantity" trap. An analogy is flipping burgers. If flipping 200 and hour is the standard, what reward for doing 300? Same skill, same span of control, same output, same risk. Your reward will be employee of the month and maybe a 50 cent raise. Consider awards are more for the lasting difference you make after you're gone. My NAM was an O-1/2 award for building new stuff in Antarctica that hadn't been done before. That and running the surface SAR operation and having to fetch boondoggler politicians when their Huey went down in a whiteout. Add a dash of freeing a brand new stuck ice breaker (Polar Star) using explosives techniques I devised. That I was told was solidly in the range of a NAM. Times change.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 20 at 2017 2:41 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 02:41:21 -0400

OK well my two cents and don't take this personally. I am kind of irritated awards like the AAM are downgraded by giving them away for a routine task. You should get an AAM for going above and beyond. Having said that and having long ago service in the National Guard. You have to let your Chain of Command know or remind them constantly where you have gone above and beyond. When your in the Reserves it is not always as visible as when your Active Duty. So start volunteering more for extra drills and such and start keeping a list. You are correct though with eight years in.....even with a Reserve unit you should have more than just an AAM. I think your problem is your blending in too much and need to be more visible with your extra tasks. Also, with 8 years in, why are you still a Specialist? I would think at a minimum you would have a GCM or two of them for two enlistments, whats up with that?

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Apr 20 at 2017 5:24 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 05:24:48 -0400

Everyone I have ever met in the military, who is worth a damn, cares more about what's between your ears than what's on your chest......

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Apr 20 at 2017 7:37 AM

CW4 Guy Butler — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 07:37:15 -0400

From my perspective, part of the problem looks like you haven't been in a unit long enough for leadership to get a good handle on your abilities and capabilities - based on your profile, you've been in 5 units since you made specialist 5 years ago.

That means your leadership has, on average, 24 days of IDT (half of which is tied up in admin and mandatory training) and 2-3 weeks of ECT to get you integrated into the unit and begin to evaluate you. That's not a lot of time - and then you're gone to the next unit. Given a choice between writing an award for you and the Specialist who's been in the unit for 2-3 years, who do you think is going to get the ARCOM?

My advice would be to find a unit - preferably an Engineer unit - and stick with it.

Response by SGT David T. made Apr 20 at 2017 8:03 AM

SGT David T. — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:03:00 -0400

I can go on for hours about this very topic. There is a belief that level of responsibility (read rank) determines the award. On paper this is not true. Every award has a set criteria and any Soldier that meets said criteria can be awarded that. However, fact of the matter is too many so called leaders tie rank to the award. This is why most E-7 and above get BSMs as deployment awards and E-6 and below typically do not (unless it has a V). I always read the criteria and put my Soldiers in for awards that met it. Every single time I wrote one up that was higher than an ARCOM it was summarily downgraded due to the grade of the Soldier. It didn't matter to the chain of command that they clearly met the criteria.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Apr 20 at 2017 8:56 AM

MGySgt James Forward — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:56:27 -0400

Don't get wrapped around the axle on awards, sometimes there is not much rhyme or reason. Do you best always, I never worried about any awards. End of tour before PCS orders is a give away award in my book and does not occur that much in the Marine Corps. We also don't give promotion point for them either. Yes, looks nice on your uniform but you evals and performance are what count in my book. Semper fi and keep charging.

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Apr 20 at 2017 9:31 AM

GySgt Bill Smith — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:31:23 -0400

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 20 at 2017 10:30 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:30:26 -0400

I'm not sure you are entirely correct that officers are awarded more often and with higher awards than enlisted personnel. I understand your perception, but I ask that you consider another point of view. I see you are in the Reserve Component. Some of what I'm going to say may not apply to RC units because I'm mostly familiar with Active Component units.

There are many more enlisted persons than officers. The percent of people in each group (I'm lumping officers and warrant officers in one group and all grades of enlisted in another) who receive each type of achievement award is what you should look at. I don't have access to the statistics, but your -1 shop will. If you look at the number of officers and enlisted in your organization and similar organizations at the same level in your command, you will probably find (my guess) that a higher percent of enlisted persons receive achievement awards than officers. It is true to some extent that the officer's grade influences the level of achievement award they receive, especially on PCS. A LTC probably won't receive an Army Achievement Medal on PCS or Change of Command, but most likely will get a Meritorious Service Medal. To some extent it's tradition, but if you read the requirements for the medal, you'll see the opportunity for a junior enlisted to do the types of acts to warrant the MSM are very limited. Whereas, the Battalion Commander has every opportunity to do the type of work the MSM recognizes.

The other factor is leadership and you may have a point here. Good leaders reward their subordinates in every way and at every opportunity for exceptional work. Sometimes a simple "thanks for the great job" from a Company or Battalion Commander means a lot. Extra days on pass can be awarded to groups or individuals for extra effort and time on duty. I suppose a letter of commendation can still be placed in the record. Achievement and Commendation Medals take more work but are usually approved at a fairly low (below general officer) level, but the service member's front line supervisor has to start the process by recommending the award in most cases. If you look at the statistics and believe your unit has a leadership issue, I recommend you talk about it with your first sergeant or sergeant major.

CPT Jack Durish has an excellent post about acts of valor.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 10:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 10:41:13 -0400

Most Enlisted I know pretty much agree that the awards system is broken. Officers know it's broken as well, but they are more likely to benefit from it than enlisted. However, the biggest thing that stops soldiers from getting awards is laziness from their leadership, and that includes senior NCO's.

I would like to add, however, that enlisted are less likely to have a plan for their future, to plot out their means of advancement. Officers tend to know how much their career depends on OER's and awards, and they actually work to ensure a successful career. If you focus on your career path and work hard to achieve long term goals, you are more likely to end up with awards.

Response by SPC Todd Hanson made Apr 20 at 2017 12:25 PM

SPC Todd Hanson — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:25:27 -0400

I was serving in a position of S6 as a 36B brand new private. My PCS award was a AAM due to my grade. Then I had an ARCOM submitted by an 0-6 thru my COC that got down graded to a AAM due again due to my grade.

Response by MSG David Rogers III made Apr 20 at 2017 1:19 PM

MSG David Rogers III — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:19:30 -0400

Sometimes it is perception. An Officer or Senior NCO may be doing a lot more than you see. There is a lot of things going on behind closed doors, or in conferences with senior leadership. There is more planning and organizing than the average Joe can see. I'm sure this is not always the case, but many times it is happening that way, and the folks at the bottom of the chain do not want to believe it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 1:59 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:59:44 -0400

Here is my two cents (maybe a little more than two cents):

You have been in almost 9 yrs and your only award is an AAM. Which you got for getting 9 Soldiers back into the Reserves. The written standard (as you stated) is x3 and you get an AAM. Was it written that if you got x9 that you would get an ARCOM? If not, then oh well. Instead of focusing on what you DIDN'T get, focus on what you did get. Perhaps, in the minds of the powers that be, AAM is simply the standard...no more no less. Or it could be they didn't feel that x9 justified an ARCOM. Or it could be that they weren't sure how to quantify the bullets to warrant an ARCOM. There are a number of reasons why.

As for your statement of being in almost 8 yrs and your only real award is an AAM......well, sometimes that's how it goes. I was in initially for 10 yrs and when I ETSd, I walked out with 4 ribbons on my chest.....which were an AAM, NDSM, ASR, and an OSR. Also, at no time did I ever receive a PCS nor ETS award (there is nothing stating those HAVE to be given). Was it bad leadership, or leadership that didn't think I did enough, or was it that I just didn't do enough? Who knows. Did I feel I was owed more? Sure, I thought that. But knowing what I know now looking back, I didn't deserve more than I got. It's just how the game is played. Besides the fact that rank is not supposed to be a factor in awards (with the exception of certain awards), rank is taken into account based on the level of responsibility. I didn't get my first ARCOM until after I finished my deployment to Iraq as a SPC. My next ARCOM was after a WAREX where I was but a SGT and I was dual hatting as Team Leader and Detachment Sergeant (SFC position).

Now, looking at your DORs, I see that you made SPC in April of 2012. Here it is April of 2017 and you are still a SPC. You should have been promoted to SGT and working on SSG by now. You can be certain that your Leaders are looking at this. This tells them.....and me....that your drive is not all there. Plus, it would appear that you are only doing things to get medals. If this is your only goal....things are going to be a little rough for you down the road. Besides doing Military Funeral Rites, and getting x9 Soldiers back into the Reserves, what else have you done to better your unit and the Army? Are you going outside your comfort zone within your unit to learn things that no one else wants? For example, taking charge of new Soldiers to the unit and being their Sponsor? Or, taking charge of the unit's APFT program, or HT/WT program, or being an assistant to the Training and/or OPS NCO? Serve as a Squad Leader? Anything other than being a Squad Member and Funeral details?

I'm not saying all this to chastise you, I'm saying all this to give you food for thought.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 2:29 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:29:14 -0400

I would be interested to see statistics on this subject. As I have personally seen Sergeant Major's and First Sergeant's who never, "left the wire" receive Bronze Star's with Valor devices within months of returning CONUS while Lance Corporals, who obviously deserve, and who were submitted for the same award, by astute and professional leaders, never receive one.

For obvious reasons this can create a caustic command in which the lower ranks assume that their superiors are only out for themselves, and may have "trashed" (i.e. not submitted beyond the initial chain of command) the write-ups.

I think that rank SHOULD NOT influence the receipt of awards, but would argue that it does. Furthermore any O-6's+, E-8's, and/or E-9's who have received unearned awards would, in all likelihood, argue against or downplay this belief, by saying, "it doesn't or shouldn't matter". When in reality, it does matter and heavily influences whether or not people stay in.

Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we are still a war time military force, and should be trying to retain all of the savages we can, not the careerists.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Apr 20 at 2017 2:56 PM

CWO2 Shelby DuBois — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:56:42 -0400

Most of the time, when you're enlisted, you get a set of orders and a nice plaque and going away party when you leave, regardless of how well you did your job. It's what you do. Each time an officer leaves for a new assignment, they seem to always get some beautiful parting gifts or 'recognized' for not shooting themselves in the foot, embarrassing the old man or generally being there. The expectation is that the enlisted will get some award at the end of his obligation and be gone in an enlistement or two...while an officer just might stick around, and it'd be embarrassing to have a Colonel in his blues with just a Natl Def Medal with stars and an Expert badge hanging there. A chest full of medals help denote his 'been there, done that...don't argue with me' posture. Seriously, though, the officer community does indeed take care of themselves better in this regard (see Aid or Asst XO). Enlisteds rely on senior enlisted and Jr officers for recognition and quite frankly, most of them are less concerned about writing up recommendations than just getting the job done.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2017 4:30 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:30:24 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member I have seen a lot of ideas of what gets and deserves awards here. In reality it comes down to three things: 1. did anyone put you in for an award, 2. how well was it written (aka was it written in a way that shows that you earned the award that they are recommending you for), and 3. the approving authority. If nobody for you in for it you will not get one. If the writer paints a picture that you are amazing you might get it, if they are horrible at expressing what you did it might get downgraded or disapproved. And if the approving authority has it in their mind that nobody gets awards then nobody gets awards. If they are like Opera and "you get an ARCOM, you get an ARCOM, everyone gets an ARCOM" then everyone gets one.

While there are contributing factors such as unwritten rules and guidelines, etc. it all depends on these three things.

Response by SGT William Howell made Apr 20 at 2017 4:35 PM

SGT William Howell — Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:35:03 -0400

In full disclosure these are my opinions and observations please take them as such. Awards are given based off your commander's leadership. I joined the Guard after being out for 11 years. I had 3 awards in the Navy for 4 years of service. I had a great leadership team with my Guard unit. They recommend enlisted on a regular basis for awards. They had an expatiation that awards would be submitted if deserved. I spent 13 months in combat with that unit. I had the start 5 rows when I came off my combat tour and a service record full of down graded awards to letters of commendation.

The unit I transferred to I was not in the important crowd and they could care less that I was on orders or what I was doing. Should they have? Absolutely, but they were more worried about company picnics and what the Full Bird thought about them. That's how it goes.

You are a 8 year SPC. I think your priorities might be a bit skewed. You should be worried about stripes not ribbons. You should be out or an NCO by now. Not sure which one of those you fit into, but when I was a SPC I was beating down my platoon daddy's door wanting to know what I needed to do to get ready for promotion. You are the only person responsible for your promotion. You should have already attended WLC, PLDC or whatever they are calling it this week and since you haven't you should be the fucking squeaky wheel. You need to find an NCO that is willing to mentor you and get you ready for promotion. Not preaching at you, but you need to get a fire lit if you want to keep playing Army.

Now as far as officers go with awards. I have noticed plenty of officers have chimed in on this. They are correct in what they are saying. When things go "blame game wrong" they are the ones that have to bear burden of decisions made. Besides officers love things that say, "Look at me!" Once they make CPT promotions become more political. As enlisted you can have a chest full of medals and after 125/165 promotion points they mean nothing. For officers it may make the difference in being passed up for promotion. Don't worry about them, you need to focus on getting a stripe on your trousers.

Response by CPT(P) David Thorp made Apr 21 at 2017 2:11 AM

CPT(P) David Thorp — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 02:11:51 -0400

Because they AREN'T worried about how many awards they have. The Soldiers who think less about themselves are the ones who get awarded. If you really want to be selfish, be unselfish.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 11:54 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 11:54:03 -0400

For the junior enlisted ranks their first level of supervision is usually also enlisted, so unless they kick it up to the officer the actions often go unnoticed. Even providing bullets to the officer is a good start and better than doing nothing. Write them on an MRE box if that's all you have, as the officer's job is to smooth it up and follow up until it's delivered. It's also a time-management issue. Folks are so wrapped up with the mission that any but required admin for ammo, fuel, rations etc. is often the lowest priority. As to officer awards they often get wrapped up in taking care of each other instead of the guys in the trenches that deserve it the most. That may offend some but that's the way I often saw it. USMC was not that big on awards anyway. That can be both bad and good. If the junior folks know that even near super-human efforts will result in a Letter of Appreciation or Meritorious Mast, some will just do the bare minimum because there is no incentive. That's not characteristic of Marines generally though, as they all try to give their best. It is a factor though. It is noticed when someone that works at BN gets an award for showing up while the guys in the Platoons bust their tails. The sweet spot is in the middle. Meaning being, recognize those that rate it but don't recognize those that don't. Not everyone can get a medal but nothing should prevent a lesser acknowledgement; other than apathy and laziness. Many times I saw a unit do great things during a training evolution or exercise and once all personnel and gear were accounted for, that's the end of emphasis i.e. ENDEX and sound Liberty Call. The last phase of anything like that for a leader is to recognize performers. Not associating awards with anything bad because they should be taken seriously, but when you take a dump you're not finished until you do the paperwork.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 12:15 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:15:47 -0400

I would argue the opposite, it's hard as an E3 or E4 to look at an O1-O4 and understand their responsibility, and sometimes for an O1-O4 looking at that junior Soldiers' contribution, but I have always witnessed enlisted guys getting impact awards, while officers general get EOT awards.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Apr 21 at 2017 2:20 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:20:44 -0400

My last CO (a LtCol) downgraded the impact MSM recommendation written by my OIC to a NCM because "E7 = NCM". I'm not sure where that regulation is written. He then proceeded to award a MSM to the assistant supply officer (Captain) as an end of tour award. Guess the background of the CO?
Do officers get preferential treatment for awards? Unfortunately I think in most cases the answer is YES.
Keep doing your best. Commanders, and their "unwritten rules", come and go. The next one may have different opinions.

Response by SSgt Eric Ott made Apr 21 at 2017 4:15 PM

SSgt Eric Ott — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:15:10 -0400

I spent 9 on Active Duty in the Marines and 6 in the reserves. It does seem that there is preferential treatment towards rewarding junior officers but I believe that is because the JO has an intermediate officer looking over them whereas, the enlisted has the JO looking over them. The JO knows less and less likely to recognize superior performance, therefore less likely to write something up. Senior Enlisted need to recognize their subordinates when appropriate and make the effort.

Enlisted personnel need to focus on what counts... stripes, not salads. I worked incredibly hard and performed above my pay-grade and was awarded with 2 meritorious promotions (Cpl and Sgt) and narrowly missed a 3rd. I pinned SSgt within 6 years and never was awarded anything other than unit or service awards, but I did have a box full of Meritorious Mass and Certificates of Appreciation that may have included opportunities for write-ups if someone had made the effort.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 8:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:23:00 -0400

Looking at your profile it looks like you havent done anything to progress your career in over 5 years, i mean youre an 8 year specialist and youve been on funeral detail since 2012. What do you do that is actually related to your MOS? have you tried volunteering for deployments? you cant just sit still and expect stuff to happen on its own, you have to go out and work for it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2017 10:45 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:45:07 -0400

Couple things cross my mind inreading the question and responses....
1. Why are you a 8 year SPC?
2. Have you done something to warrent/deserve/earn an award?
3. What is your command policy on awards? Some have PCS, 300 APFT, 40/40 range qual....
I went the first 8 years/all of my enlisted time with 1 unit transfer without getting an award (and I went above the standard by doing CLS, NBC, and UPL). Sometimes it's a leadership issue.
My policy and expectation is to earn an award you go above and beyond your job and/or grade. I have awarded PFCs for doing MSG tasks, because that SM exceeded the expectation.
Officers carry a greater level of responsibility and they tend to get noticed more (both positively and negatively), that could be why you feel or have seen more officers get awards.

Response by CPO Bill Penrod made Apr 23 at 2017 5:27 PM

CPO Bill Penrod — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:27:25 -0400

The Navy didn't award NAMs as end of tours awards until way after I retired. In today's Navy if one doesn't get at least a NAM end of tour something's wrong. Our daughter has a chest full of medals and ribbons where as I had nine and only the Good Conduct Medal was a personal award the others are geek dunk awards. Times change.

Response by SPC Steven Depuy made Apr 24 at 2017 11:34 AM

SPC Steven Depuy — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:34:48 -0400

They get the most glory, and get the most blame. Crap runs uphill sometimes too.

Response by LCDR Gabriel Helms made Apr 24 at 2017 11:50 AM

LCDR Gabriel Helms — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:50:13 -0400

Why do some enlisted get fewer awards than officers? Poor leadership. If you are in a command where officers are getting more than enlisted, welcome to poor management. As for the previous statement that enlisted could do the same jobs as officers, it's coming from a very narrow perspective. I've been on both sides of the aisle and can tell you for fact that many enlisted could not. There ARE some that definitely could and I've worked with some. Conversely, there are officers that can't do a good job, as they original post points out. I've seen those too. One thing I've seen in every command though is that an enlisted that only does 8 hour shifts always calls the officer that works 12-20 hours lazy because the enlisted don't see them work past their own shift. Many officers put in AT LEAST 12 hour days. We called it a Banger half day when I was in the Wallbangers (VAW-117).

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Apr 24 at 2017 11:50 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:50:25 -0400

Okay, this is ridiculous. Officers don't get recognized more often than enlisted. In all actuality, the lower enlisted members probably get more recognized than any other group in the military. I think this is for a few reasons: 1. Lower enlisted are usually younger and need that pat on the back to keep their morale up, 2. NCOs by that time don't really care about massing awards, especially if they have already made it to E6 and thus, in the army it goes to the centralized boards (i can't speak on the other services. But more importantly, who actually thinks to put the LT in for an AAM? No one. He or she is expected to uphold the standard and thus doing great really isn't an award worthy feet. Go looking around at the ribbon racks of officers and enlisted members and tell me which ones have the most AAMs and ARCOMs and such. I be never seen an officer with more than one ARCOM and I don't believe I've ever seen one wearing an AAM. This sounds more to me like someone pouting because they haven't earned enough medals. You must exceed the standard to earn medals.go out and start exceeding!

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Apr 24 at 2017 12:08 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:08:23 -0400

It's because they behave like Democrats... lie through their teeth, look out for their own even to their organization's own detriment, and shower each other with ego awards (Nobel prize anyone?) to keep them happily complicit. In fact, there are entire classes of awards that are only for Generals.. How arrogant, self centered, and egotistical do you have to be to even put that award in the books for presentation?

The left, after all, gets the first crack at indoctrination in the Universities. It is far easier to join the military for the purpose of corrupting it when you don't often have to actually risk your life or anything. It's easy to join the military when you don't have to accept near the risk enlisted do.. and you don't even have to do all that PT stuff or much of the other BS that goes along with being in the military. I mean, you can be so incompetent that you drive one of your troops to suicide.. worry not.. Your brethren will all point out how it was the Joe's fault.. you will still get promoted.. decorated ect.. You can embezzle federal funds to send your wife on shopping trips and even get the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs beg the SecDef to not take your rank away... even though just last week you completely crushed an enlistedman's life for messing up with his travel card. I mean, why the hell not? Right? I bet this is probably why the Air Force is the most left wing among the services... So.. if you want to understand the officer corps.. look at the Democrat Party.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2017 1:44 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:44:46 -0400

1. Organizational culture plays a role. Some units give out more awards than necessary, others give out very few. A lot of it depends on your leadership.

2. With nearly 11 years of service, two deployments, and a successful company command I have two ARCOMs and an MSM. None of my awards were impact awards. I can count the number of times in my career I've seen an officer of any grade receive an impact award on one hand.

3. Your being an 8 year E4 immediately sends up red flags, especially in a relatively high density MOS. It's very possible you're being held back by a lack of slots, but with that said what have you done to distinguish yourself? Are you scoring 270+ on the APFT, shooting expert, and finding ways to go the extra mile? Do you have SSD1 and BLC done? Have you stepped into an NCO position to fill a vacancy?

4. There's something called the burden of command. It's an incredible honor, but an extremely challenging experience at the same time. In my case I was responsible for both the successes and failures of 131 men. Command does not mean sitting in your office drinking coffee while your men work. If you think your Officers do nothing one of two things are happening: either they're all shitbags (unlikely) or you're simply oblivious to the work they've put in. (Likely) Any officer worth his salt is on step 8 of the TLPs by the time you arrive at formation.

5. You're awful close to whining in the post. Tagging "fairness" isn't helping your case either. Nothing is fair on the battlefield.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Apr 24 at 2017 1:46 PM

CW4 Scott Hyde — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:46:13 -0400

What have you accomplished? Have you made significant impact? Have you changed jobs? Have you volunteered? Stop worrying about the other guy and work on you. If you do not like your current situation, change it. What have you done to change this culture? If you do not like being enlisted, a WOCS class starts every two weeks and OCS is taking applications.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Apr 24 at 2017 4:05 PM

LTC Russ Smith — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 16:05:43 -0400

Sadly the author is correct. I was enlisted for six years and officer for a little over 20. Three of those enlisted years were in the Marines. I remember being in formation as a Corporal on Okinawa in September 1982 and a Second Lieutenant got a Navy achievement medal for doing a great job running the motor pool for six months. Simultaneously, a Navy Corpsman was recognized by the same general at the same formation. While out bicycling on the back roads of Okinawa he watched as a public bus literally went over a cliff. The corpsman descended the cliff freehand and rescued people from the bus. He pulled them out, got them to safety, performed First Aid etc. Eventually the bus caught on fire but because of the Corpsman's actions no one was hurt. He got a letter of commendation.

Response by Maj Ken Brown made Apr 24 at 2017 6:30 PM

Maj Ken Brown — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 18:30:15 -0400

Maybe in the Army, Air Force, and Navy. Not in the Marines or the Coast Guard.

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Apr 24 at 2017 7:47 PM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:47:06 -0400

When I deployed to Iraq I worked in the network operations and security center. My immediate supervisor in this instance was a Captain. There was no NCO intermediary. This is not typical but, it's what t was. We distributed and shipped critical commo equipment throughout Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait. My boss received a bronze star myself a commendation. Doesn't quite make sense a commander should have the ability bestow awards fitting Soldiers role and position.

Response by SSG Johnnie Vaughn made Apr 24 at 2017 9:18 PM

SSG Johnnie Vaughn — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:18:05 -0400

This will get a lot of flack, I'm sure, but here is something to consider: Your recognition can never exceed that of the immediate officers above you. Recognize that, and use it to your advantage. Pick a junior level officer to serve as your "mentor." Identify a project that has tangible benefits, and seek his "advice." Then frequently mention your "team's project" in front of the higher-ups. When it comes to fruition, you will have to watch your junior officer receive a higher award than he deserved, but you will get your recognition and a lower level award as fallout. On the plus side, word will get around and you'll have more opportunities to excel. Get good enough, and they will seek you out.
I got my first ARCOM as a infantry buck sergeant in 1981... the year they first came out with the AAM. Anybody that knows how hard that was to get will look at the citation and go, "WTF, over?" There is no mention of the project that got my OIC a MSM... which was virtually unheard of since he was just a 1LT. But everybody in my CoC received recognition and I benefited from it.
This presumes that you can recognize opportunities for improvement that don't knife a superior in the back when exposed. I learned that the hard way.

We all like to believe that in a perfect world, everything would be based on performance and merit... but office politics are something that has to be acknowledged since they really do come into play.

And for those that say awards don't mean anything, I call BS... promotion points are important to enlisted personnel.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Apr 24 at 2017 10:38 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:38:37 -0400

If you truly believe that and awards are that important to you look into becoming an officer so you can see for yourself whether that's true or not!!! Another thing you can do is find out what can get you an award and go after it. My recommendation? Focus on performance and do the things others don't or won't and awards and promotions will come!

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Apr 25 at 2017 12:09 AM

SSG(P) Brian Kliesen — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:09:51 -0400

In my previous unit, regardless of the award or individual, no one received anything. Even time in service awards or training ribbons were impossible to document and get approved, which only required a simple memo. Later on, Officers received awards because it was 'an important stepping stone for their career and necessary for them to progress and be recognized by their peers'. Junior Enlisted and NCO's, who did most if not all of the work anyway, still did not receive anything. In my current unit it is much the same, Officers get inflated awards and soldiers are lucky to get a 'Certificate of Appreciation' with a minimum of spelling errors. Not even a 'Certificate of Achievement' which is at least a few promotion points. A year later we are waiting on awards for our home station AT which required a lot of work and preparation. This year the unit is going to go to support a mission as AT and I would bet that the officers will get their awards approved quickly with little, if anything for the rest.

Response by LCpl Nicholas Hines made Apr 25 at 2017 11:03 AM

LCpl Nicholas Hines — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:03:12 -0400

Because officers approve awards, They will give each other awards for all kinds of dumb crap, and then the few enlisted awards they usually approve will be even stupider. NAM ceremonies are always interesting when you get to listen to the trumped up accomplishments of your peers or leaders.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2017 11:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:27:42 -0400

There are a lot of good answers to this question already. But I will add that no one should do anything with the intent of getting a reward/medal for it. Do your job to the best of your ability and your superiors will notice. Likewise, regardless of rank and medals, if you're a crappy soldier everyone will know it.

Response by PO3 Andrew Kelly made Apr 25 at 2017 1:21 PM

PO3 Andrew Kelly — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:21:48 -0400

I think it goes back to the Authority/Responsibility rule. (You can delegate authority but not responsibility) So an officer gets credit for the actions of his subordinates and has the responsibility of recognizing their actions. But the second half of that formula is often overlooked so enlisted often get overlooked unless their actions come to the attention of higher ups other than by "proper" channels.

Response by LT Steve Wilson made Apr 26 at 2017 11:05 PM

LT Steve Wilson — Wed, 26 Apr 2017 23:05:13 -0400

Good question; however, during my 12 as an enlisted missile technician and instructor I received twice the awards as when I accepted a commission in the Navy. Of course, some of these were good conduct (which officers don't get), professional military education (which I don't think anyone other than the USAF gets), and longevity ribbons. Additionally, that is leaving out the NDM and other conflict or deployment medals or ribbons.
I think the honors go to those most in the spotlight as well as their proximity to those who award the medals. If someone is promoting your image as 'the best' you will see results, yet if you are constantly down in the trenches or hidden in the engineering spaces the chain of command may not even know you exist.

Response by Cpl Kevin Dover made Apr 27 at 2017 1:52 PM

Cpl Kevin Dover — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:52:58 -0400

The easy answer is yes. The rules and guidelines for awards of heroism (Bronze and silver stars and the like) are also far less stringent for commissioned officers. RHIP.

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Apr 27 at 2017 3:33 PM

PO1 Todd B. — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:33:50 -0400

A question you are not alone in asking.. I too often wondered that myself.

Response by COL John McClellan made Apr 27 at 2017 3:42 PM

COL John McClellan — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:42:36 -0400

On this topic I would also say this -- I don't know if officers are really recognized more or not (i.e. statistically) but certainly there is a widely held perception that they are -- so, this is something that both officer and NCO leaders at all ranks have to be cognizant of, and understand, when approaching who's getting recommended for what, when and how. Especially, again, young officers, need to realize that their troops may feel this way, and that they themselves (the 2LT...) are not likely to be told this directly! This is where a good PSG and a solid PL--PSG relationship comes in!! If in a particular unit this perception is strong, then there are things that leaders can do to inform/educate everyone without changing the underlying reasons why you might or might not recognize someone in the first place - their merited achievements.

Response by SGT Mark Grier made May 1 at 2017 11:22 AM

SGT Mark Grier — Mon, 01 May 2017 11:22:59 -0400

They are smarter. They knew by not being enlisted they wouldn't have to put up with NCO bullshit and get better housing and not have a depenapotamous follow them all over the world. They have better teeth and have soldiers set up their tents and they can use soldiers as butlers too.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 3 at 2017 8:40 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 May 2017 08:40:14 -0400

Reality is, if you have been im the Army almost 8 year and yoi still an E-4, do not ask why Officers got more awards than you, what you should be asking to yourself is what you are not doing right. Awards are not candies and should not be given just for do your job. The fact that you still a SPC is telling me that you are not even barely able to perform a task without supervision, NOT Worthy of award.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made May 7 at 2017 1:51 PM

PVT Raymond Lopez — Sun, 07 May 2017 13:51:00 -0400

Why are officers recognized with awards more than enlisted? I always wondered when someone would be innocent enough to ask that question and since I am very much closer to the grave than the cradle I am going to give you an answer which should give more than a few people heart burn. All awards are initiated by commissioned officers however the people who are at the company, troop or battery headquarters tend to get special treatment. For instance based on personal experience, I have seen company clerks by hap stance, mischance and coincidence just happen to get flight status and flight pay and Air Medals for being door gunners when people from aviation units including Air Cavalry Troop were on R&R. Interestingly enough enlisted people in air assault unit would get only one Air Medal for the whole year even if they made one hundred air assaults. Each air assault was supposed to count as one mission and by Army Regulations every twenty five were supposed to count as another Oak Leaf Cluster.

Response by MCPO Tom Miller made May 7 at 2017 10:09 PM

MCPO Tom Miller — Sun, 07 May 2017 22:09:56 -0400

I retired in 1978, and it was worse back then! Recognition was given much more on citations, award letters and mentioned in your evaluations. Today, awards come more freely and medals too! I think there is a medal for deployments and much more not given in my tenure! When recommended for a medal, usually it would be down graded to a lower level. I was surprised when I left Recruiting duty as I received the Navy Achievement Medal for my tenure. I was the Recruiter of the Year twice and in alternate years station of the year, but my tour was extended from a three year tour to a five year tour as each time I was Recruiter of the Year I was extended a year. As an enlisted man, I thought that was my reward! I was selected in the first group into the Navy's Career Counselor Rating. Made Master Chief right away and was satisfied as that was my award! I had orders to Recruiting Area Three as Master Chief of Command and was a Master Chief for Retention on Cruiser/Destroyer Group Eight and wrote the first Retention Instruction just prior and had a series of heart attacks. With twenty two years I was medically retired and left as a two row ribbons sailor. I never felt any resentment that more medals went to the officers as that was the way it was back then. I spent over 10 years at sea before going ashore as a Boilerman and that sea time far exceeded Officers. If an Officer did a recognizable job during his deployment, he could expect a medal to follow and presented at his next command. It was what it was and today it is what it is!

Response by SSG John Caples made May 12 at 2017 8:56 PM

SSG John Caples — Fri, 12 May 2017 20:56:44 -0400

That's the way the Army is, I was put in for a purple heart by my platoon sargent. And got down graded to a ARCOM

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2017 10:24 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 May 2017 22:24:58 -0400

Please read this entire comment before any judgement, please. My Commander just received a badge for his one year in command that took me over a year in training and 14 months doing my job to earn. Back in my specialist days, I think I saw this as unfair but now I have a bit different of an impression. Sometimes the awards a Commander receives show the accomplishments of the entire unit and depending on the unit and the Commander's previous experience, they may be doing a brilliant job just by jumping in and not wrecking the bus. I have seen people removed from operations and even kicked out of the Army, but Commanders and XOs have a far smaller leeway. They can be relieved for not forseeing the outcome of decisions that weren't theirs in the first place. I suppose I am just saying that I don't fault the CO for getting the higher ribbon than the PSG, even though the PSG most likely has more time in service. I really haven't even seen too many impact awards for officers as their exemplary actions are considered par for the course (like the lack on the AGCM). If anyone is to sore on this subject, I would just ask how much you have considered this point of view. Good question though.

Response by Capt Dwayne Conyers made May 13 at 2017 12:56 AM

Capt Dwayne Conyers — Sat, 13 May 2017 00:56:36 -0400

That assertion does not reflect my career. Granted, the USAF is possibly the most political of the services. As a ROTC student, I watched or top graduates leave active duty in disgrace after a few months.

As a flight commander, I pioneered a technique to exponentially improve squadron productivity. The staff study I wrote on that issue was added to the curriculum at ACSC.

While I survived four years AD, I had only the ribbons on my chest. My commanding General called me back to AD with a promotion to O-3 and a BTZ to O-4 scheduled for a year later. Before I could pin on the latter, politics treated is ugly head again.

Your mileage may vary...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2017 11:14 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 May 2017 23:14:44 -0400

Man, there are a LOT of officers responding with their thoughts on why the enlisted ranks don't get the amount or level of awards that officers get.

And most of these answers are hilarious. But only because I'm a RETIRED MSG and it doesn't matter to me anymore.

There is an unwritten law in the Army that the higher the rank you are, the higher the award you get for doing a thing. and I am not whining, it really doesn't matter to this retired Soldier so I am speaking objectively.

I have been on the receiving end of not getting the award that an officer who did the same thing DID get, I have put in Soldiers for Awards and seen officers that I put in get upgraded while enlisted (especially lower enlisted) get downgraded for THE SAME ACTIONS.

And when I have mentioned these discrepancies, I have been told "that must just be your unit," "that's probably not what happened," or my favorite, "you don't understand the dynamics of what happens at higher levels."

I WAS the higher damned level. I ran a Batalion and a Brigade S2 Section. And I repeatedly watched as enlisted Soldiers got awarded lesser awards than officers, often for events in which the enlisted Soldier did something well beyond the officer's actions.

This is an Army-wide issue, and one that has been going on for decades. In 1993 as a Private I got an Certificate of Achievement for beating the best time on the "Green Hell" obstacle course in Fort Sherman Panama. My partner, a junior NCO, got an AAM. Later I found out that two officers, a 1st Lieutenant and a Captain, recieved ARCOMs for getting the "best time," which wasn't actually the best time but what translated to the "best time for a pair of officers," which they happened to leave off of the award citation.

In Iraq in 2009 I put a couple of Soldiers in for ARCOMs for their actions in the Intel field. I put our OIC in for an ARCOM as well, because I knew that putting him in for anything less would be a ska in the face that would cause all of my Soldiers' Awards to get slapped down. Our OIC had only been with us for bout a third of the deployment, prior to that we were without an OIC, having myself and one other NCO to run things. Our OIC was awarded a Bronze Star, and most of my Soldiers received AAMs.

I and most NCOs have long understood that the system is INCREDIBLY flawed, and that one just needs to Lee their teeth together and grind it out because the people who would CHANGE the flawed system are the same people who currently BENEFIT from the flawed system - namely, officers. and it's not ONLY officers; Senior NCOs are often given awards that are WILDLY out of proportion for the actions they have taken. Not too long ago a 1SG got an ARCOM for reporting Soldiers who were complaining ONLINE about their leadership. This, to me, says that her "trolling" of these Soldiers is equal in merit to the Army as my actions in COMBAT that merited an ARCOM. Which is, obviously, fucking RIDICULOUS.

I am not trying to offer any type of fix for this, I am simply stating the facts: officers (and to an extent senior NCOs) receive preferential treatment when it comes to awards. Anyone who tells you different is either delusional, bullshitting, or an officer who is trying to defend a flawed system.

And that's okay. My DD-214 is two pages long with all of the damned awards and decorations I received by being in the wrong place at the wrong time for the Army over three different decades, and I've found that once you're out not a single one of them matters.

So drive on, Airborne. Huaa?

Response by SPC Jamie Smith made May 15 at 2017 7:01 AM

SPC Jamie Smith — Mon, 15 May 2017 07:01:13 -0400

From my Vietnam experience, it seems it is true because the junior officers have more contact with the ones who actually recommend the men for awards , than do the enlisted men. "Flipper John Kerry" with all his "purple oowies" is a prime example. In some instances they can simply have a buddy officer put them in for awards, earned or not.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made May 15 at 2017 8:58 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Mon, 15 May 2017 20:58:27 -0400

Difficult to answer. I received every award without prior knowledge of having been recommended. How ever, during vietam, I recognized the exemplary actions of my aircraft crew under extraordinary enemy fire and awarded them accordingly. There was a time when awards ment being awarded under the most trying time during war. Today, the same awards seem to be awarded to desk jockeys deminishing their recognition and politizing the military for recognitions unworthy of such.

Response by PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson made May 16 at 2017 10:41 PM

PO3 Christopher Jonah Nelson — Tue, 16 May 2017 22:41:43 -0400

The easiest answer is that officers are supposed to know how to write award recommendations for their troops, so they're often taught how. Since they know how, they tend to do it for themselves, making sure that their efforts are not going unnoticed. It's not until you get to about E6-E7 level that enlisted personnel are taught to do this, and so most of the things that you do go unnoticed because you never say anything about them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2017 4:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 May 2017 16:35:36 -0400

That's not always the case there were a couple of Specialists in my last unit that got an AAM for finishing the Nijmegen march and the NCOs that also finished it as well received no award. As others have said a lot of times it comes down to whether or not you have earned the award and if you have inquired about it. If you feel that you deserve an award for being the only Specialist on the funeral honors team ask your first line about it. It never hurts to ask a question; besides there are only two responses they can give you yes or no. So either way you have a 50/50 shot.

Response by SPC James H Butts Iii made May 18 at 2017 4:43 PM

SPC James H Butts Iii — Thu, 18 May 2017 16:43:45 -0400

I've got some m

Response by CW5 John Vassar made May 21 at 2017 8:14 PM

CW5 John Vassar — Sun, 21 May 2017 20:14:09 -0400

I have always felt that, due to the somewhat privileged and esteemed position that Commissioned Officers enjoy, decorations should be primarily reserved for the enlisted personnel.

Response by MSG Darren Gaddy made May 24 at 2017 8:47 PM

MSG Darren Gaddy — Wed, 24 May 2017 20:47:00 -0400

This system is biased in my opinion in a lot of commands that I've been associated with. Let's use a good friend of mine for example. He deployed to Somalia and did great work and accomplished missions that were done for the first time ever, several times. He later deployed to Iraq and did many firsts and things that far exceeded anyone's job description to included conducting one of the first complete police academies amongst several other things which had not been done before. Once this Soldier was submitted for his retirement award which was a LOM, it was downgraded almost immediately to a MSM because he was not an officer or a SGM, according to the S1/G1. This award would have had to leave the DIV and be sent higher, but the intermediate authority (O6) felt that a MSG didn't have that level of responsibility to earn that award and wasn't worthy of that award. I've seen this in many units. Awards were given according to rank and not according to accomplishments. This is a systemic issue in my opinion and needs more regulation. I once had a SGT who worked for me who had been in the Army 16 years who was smarter than most of the other people around us, but he was only a SGT and therefore treated as such. The award system is bogus in my opinion. There is no equillivenancy comparison nor any real regulation, so how can you get a MSM for a PCS award and my friend get a MSM for two different deployments where he did things which had never been done before?

Response by CPT Douglas Griffith made May 25 at 2017 2:16 AM

CPT Douglas Griffith — Thu, 25 May 2017 02:16:23 -0400

Ummm, that's because you are a looser. You should get an award because you thought you did more than somebody else when actuality you were fucking sleeping on the patrol. Cry to somebody else, someone who hasn't done any time in the fucking Army whatsoever.

Response by CPT Douglas Griffith made May 25 at 2017 2:17 AM

CPT Douglas Griffith — Thu, 25 May 2017 02:17:53 -0400

P.S. I went from E1 to E7 before I went to the Darkside, don't even try that angle of bullshit.

Response by CPT Douglas Griffith made May 25 at 2017 2:26 AM

CPT Douglas Griffith — Thu, 25 May 2017 02:26:37 -0400

E7 in 86 months. Find a new topic.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2017 9:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 May 2017 09:41:36 -0400

Award inflation is a big problem in todays military. You have Senior NCO's and Officers that deploy and basically just sit around and they go home with a Bronze Star and a Combat Action Badge. Yet you could have a junior enlisted Soldier who logged thousands of miles on the road and have been directly engaged in hostile fire situations and they walk away with an ARCOM. Its not a situation that I see will be fixed anytime soon. As an NCO I always try to recognize my Soldiers achievements whether its in theater or at home stateside. About half the time the awards get downgraded but all we can do is try to justify it the best we can.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made May 25 at 2017 11:51 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 25 May 2017 11:51:47 -0400

Awards take time and effort to push through the system, as well as experience in what makes a strong write up to get your guys what they deserve.
That said I always ask troops who complain about not getting awards "what are you doing to stand out". Just showing up and doing your job may rate an end of tour award but it isn't going to get you the admiration and praise of your peers or leaders heaped upon you.
If you are looking for recognition here's some attention getters for you:
- compete and win at the Soldier and NCO of the month, quarter, year competitions.
- compete and be selected at SGT Audie Murphy or Morales boards.
- submit solutions to equipment or material deficiencies found in your MOS's gear to the regimental proponancy office, professional journal or PM magazine.
-volunteer on your free time in support of, or initiate an activity that helps the community.
-volunteer for and seek out the opportunities for deployments; both operational and combat.
-volunteer for special teams, NAIRA, NBC recon, ADVON.........
- mentor a sub standard Soldier to accomplish any of the above.
-be the subject matter expert on something, become so frick'n proficient that when the topic is mentioned folks say go find "Voye".
- give everyone near or around you that remotely touches any endeavor you undertake the credit for any success you have, it breeds teamwork and makes outside folks want to be part of your team, and displays selflessness which for some reason makes folks want to help you.
- never say anything bad about anyone to anyone, and if you do be sure that you've looked them in the eye and told them they suck, why they suck and have tried to help them. Then if they need help...give it.
Hope this helps, good luck and good hunting.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2017 3:21 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 25 May 2017 15:21:13 -0400

I can't answer the "why" to your question, but if I may make a suggestion...There are a great number of awesome folks in here that are Active Duty enlisted and I bet most would be willing to lend some mentoring advice and help you understand the process and possibly some avenues to succeed. CSM Private RallyPoint Member, 1SG Private RallyPoint Member, 1SG Steven Stankovich, SGM Erik Marquez, SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4", 1SG Cameron M. Wesson, 1SG Henry Yates, and SSG Pete Oneill. These are just a handful of fine soldiers I know. Good luck to you.

Response by MSgt Ronnie Kelly made May 25 at 2017 4:31 PM

MSgt Ronnie Kelly — Thu, 25 May 2017 16:31:45 -0400

Take this as you may, but personally know of cases of this. An aircrew on a multi crew aircraft consisting of both O's and E's. The crew flies a combat mission, all crewmembers complete their duties, all face the same risk of not coming home. The entire crew is put in for the same award. When the results were finalized the crew with exception of the Aircraft Commander/ Pilot were downgraded to a lower award. The Aircraft Commander, however was upgraded to the next higher award. When questioned as to why the answer was it was a HQ call. Rumor had was because he was "chosen"

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2017 3:36 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 May 2017 15:36:59 -0400

I have been in the military for many years, both active and reserves, as a enlisted person to currently a MAJ, and I have gotten my share of awards. But if this SPC thinks he should get an award for just showing up, then all the awards that have been given for going "up and beyond" mean nothing then. So, instead of feeling sorry for yourself, I would look inside yourself and reflect on why after 8 yrs of being in the reserves "I'm only a E-4" and surely you have done a few 2-week AT's and haven't gotten a single award, that should make you wonder if there is something I need to do.
But, after all that you still think you deserve an award, go ahead and put yourself in for one or two, you don't need to wait on someone else to write your award, you can write up your own award and submit it, as long as you have supporting documentation your Commander should support you and sign off on it.
Good luck and I hope you have many more years in the military.

Response by 1SG Timothy Trewin made May 27 at 2017 9:02 PM

1SG Timothy Trewin — Sat, 27 May 2017 21:02:23 -0400

1. It's the level of responsibility. I can guarantee you that a SPC and a 2LT aren't doing the "same" things.

2. You have been in for 8 years and have one AAM? Either you have worked for the worst leadership ever or there is more to the story that you are not telling us.

Response by CW4 Scott Hyde made Jun 1 at 2017 10:05 PM

CW4 Scott Hyde — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 22:05:02 -0400

I cannot speculate on why you have one award during your eight years of service because I do not know you, your job, your command, your performance and so on. Those are generally factors behind giving an award. You can volunteer and earn a MOVSM and add that to your fruit salad. Most only score when they PCS. One assignment, one award while another Soldier hits Korea then does a combat tour, then back to Korea and that fruit salad gets bigger.

I will throw this out here. I can say that I received more impact awards while enlisted than I have received awards while an officer. Sure, we are talking AAMs, JSAM, ARCOM, COAs, and coins but my award count for impacts during my 11 years prior to going to the dark side outnumbers my PCS/tour awards in the 17 years since then. These were for doing stuff like drown proofing instructor, funeral detail, NCO of the year and so on. As a funeral detail OIC (WO1) I did not get an award but my team did, all of them. I made sure of it.

Now we can look at the level of award as an officer versus enlisted, the highest award I received while enlisted was a JSCOM and ARCOM (pre war time frame during the last century) and have since pulled a couple MSMs, BSM and LOM. Senior NCOs get higher level awards than junior in most cases. It is based on the level of responsibility in most cases. Good leaders take care of their Soldiers and awards are free (cost nothing to give when earned, not candy to hand out). I give out my Chief's poker chip when I do inspections as a pat on the back for good performance. It is their supervisor's responsibility to capture that performance in their tour award or an impact.

Another line of thought is that we see officers getting pinned in big formations where we sometimes award our own at the section or platoon level. Some at going away lunches keeping things on a more personal level. Perception is not always reality.

We also have different standards for awards between units. Officers tend to move more often and if the policy is an award for position and officer will generally have two or more positions in 36 months (XO, S1/2/3/4 and PL for example) while enlisted generally one. If they change units they may get an award for that position or they may get a letter of continuity.

Now, if you are worried about officers getting more awards, put in your packet. WOCS and OCS have classes that start pretty much every other week.

Response by LTC Richard Cooper made Jun 8 at 2017 2:24 AM

LTC Richard Cooper — Thu, 08 Jun 2017 02:24:55 -0400

Sometimes I wonder if we have too many awards. A soldier graduating from Advanced Individual Training could in theory leave the course with up to three awards (two medals and a ribbon, Army Achievement, National Defense Service and Army Service Ribbon). There seems to be a train of thought in the military today that is supportive of making sure that troops (at least in the Army) get recognized with an award and that no one is left out. Apparently this train of thought is tied in with perceptions that the awards support the morale of the troops. It also seems to be tied in with the belief in civilian circles that everyone needs to be recognized for their participation.

Response by 1SG Harold Piet made Jun 9 at 2017 12:18 PM

1SG Harold Piet — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 12:18:51 -0400

Any body can recommend someone for an award. Officers take care of each other because it is vital to their profession. Enlisted are so busy working or working to get out of work, they fail to take care of each other.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Jun 11 at 2017 6:33 PM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Sun, 11 Jun 2017 18:33:07 -0400

Good question. I suppose one answer would be, junior officers are easily distracted by shiny , colorfull, objects, and it keeps them amused. I found in my years that far too much emphasis has been placed on decorations. Don't get me wrong, meritorious behavior should be recognised, but in many a formation I listened to citations being read out, so noting that awardee so and so, showed up on time, carried out his duties, and didn't kill himself or anyone in the process. Bang here's your medal. Meritorious/Valorous conduct must be recognised. In the same light awards should not be used a gauge, i.e. This NCO/Officer should have "x" number of decorations by the time they reach "y" rank. Why do O's get more than E's?? Good question. I would start with it is incumbent on SNCO's to counsel their junior officers on the awards process, and the importance with recognizing deserving individuals.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 6:16 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 06:16:37 -0400

There's not a course in ROTC that covers award writing... when to give awards.. etc.. your LT that has been in a year is still learning how to be an officer.
My unit, enlisted, especially the most junior, are getting awards on a regular basis. Every field ex we do an award ceremony for the Soldiers who have had the most impact.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jun 13 at 2017 12:41 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 12:41:34 -0400

I think the Army Awards system really is a right place at the right time and observed by many type deal. Hard to do these balancing exercises, in my view. Bottom line is you know what you did or didn't do during your enlistment and that really should be enough. A lot of the WWII awards were blanket awards, some of the Vietnam era ones were, along with the first Gulf War. Can't speak for post 2000 too much because I was long seperated by that time and out of touch with most GWOT Veterans. I would be surprised though if we did not find out later that some of the GWOT awards were not blanket awards. I only have one AAM and I served during peacetime, it was a hard earned AAM though and I am proud of it. I don't care that I didn't get another one all that much. I don't even care I never earned a CIB or never served in a war zone because lots of BS behind earning a CIB or serving in a war zone. Once you earn a CIB it becomes a contest to see whose CIB was earned under more difficult terms and that BS goes on and on the rest of your life. I can live without going through that the rest of my life. Congrats to those that have a CIB but I don't miss not having one and kind of have sympathy for those that did earn one. Wearing it is not burden free.

Response by SFC Thomas Holcomb made Jun 13 at 2017 1:19 PM

SFC Thomas Holcomb — Tue, 13 Jun 2017 13:19:22 -0400

Sometimes it's better to just do the best you possibly can at all tasks given you. Being in the limelight is not always the best thing awards are nice but at the end of the day do you want to be that LT wanted to get noticed by a Star and asked a question he as no clue about are just be for closing your eyes at night thinking you did right by your troops. Always remember Mission, Men, Me

Response by MCPO Mark Burns made Jun 14 at 2017 8:12 PM

MCPO Mark Burns — Wed, 14 Jun 2017 20:12:08 -0400

Too much candy passed out for very little on all sides of the fence. Just saying.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2017 4:02 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 04:02:56 -0400

My chest is full of ribbons & medals. Some wanted, some deserved.
Nevertheless, I never looked for none nor cried about any...
DO YOUR FUCKIN DUTY NCO & YOU WILL WIN!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2017 10:43 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 10:43:19 -0400

Awards tend to be aligned with position and responsibility, along with achievement. Many of the awards you are referencing are service awards because an officer completed an assignment as a Platoon Leader, Staff officer, or commander.
Enlisted Soldiers don't get assignments where their position and responsibilities rate a Service award until they've been in for a while.
Instead, enlisted Soldiers tend to get awards for doing something extraordinary, like winning a Soldier of the Year board or really putting in work above and beyond during a training event.

If you feel like you aren't being recognized for what you do, sometimes the best thing to do is put yourself in a position to be recognized.
Lead training.
Volunteer for additional duties.
Try something hard, like an Audie Murphy Board.

I can tell you that the same thing happens when you get senior enough; people just expect you to perform outstandingly, because you are the First Sergeant, Sergeant Major, etc.
Honestly at this stage in the game, I don't need any more medals to validate what I do; it is as much a hassle to update a ribbon for one more AAM or something. But I absolutely recognize what a little formal recognition means to my Soldiers, so I try to give them opportunities to excel and see what the results are. Excellence tends to self-identify.

Response by 1stSgt Sean Oconnor made Jun 20 at 2017 12:02 PM

1stSgt Sean Oconnor — Tue, 20 Jun 2017 12:02:55 -0400

How do you get an award that you felt should have gotten but know retired for 4 yrs

Response by SGT Linda Burgess made Jun 27 at 2017 11:43 PM

SGT Linda Burgess — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:43:02 -0400

Some of the arrogant ones write their commendation and the higher up signs it. I was in a unit that all majors and above got Bronze Stars for almost doing their job and complaining daily how they shouldn't be there. They all retired at a higher rank. Not a Leader in the bunch.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2017 2:27 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jul 2017 14:27:56 -0400

Rank Plays a role. Too much of one in most cases. Having served in both peacetime and conflict I personally seen types of awards issued based simply on rank rather than achievement. For example if several non com's got an arcom then the platoon leader must be due a bronze star. Even though there was nothing to support it.

Response by LTC Stephen Malone made Jul 9 at 2017 12:41 PM

LTC Stephen Malone — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 12:41:16 -0400

The other issue that comes into play is when you were in the Service. If you were a Cold Warrior and retired prior to the Global War on Terrorism, you would have seen a lot of officers and enlisted with far fewer awards and decorations, unless they were older folks who had served during VietNam or quite possibly Korea. Very few senior enlisted or senior officers were very junior during WWII remained when I started. During my time, we had Grenada, Panama, and Desert Shield/Desert Storm. As I see it, at the end of the day, a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine or Coast Guardsman should focus on the task at hand, become proficient in their skill set, and take care of the folks on their right and left, and it should all work out pretty well in the end.

Response by SFC Malcolm Haugen made Jul 12 at 2017 8:27 PM

SFC Malcolm Haugen — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:27:10 -0400

Remember, who writes, reviews and approve awards. Also remember that in war time, which of officers or enlisted receive the highest awards. Normally enlisted, they usually die in the line of duty. Don't feel bad in 20 years I got 3AAMs. It's political more now than ever.

Response by PO2 Dave Johnson made Jul 17 at 2017 8:12 AM

PO2 Dave Johnson — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:12:53 -0400

It seems to me they are handing out a lot more awards now than when I was in not saying that is a bad thing just saying

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 1:29 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:29:58 -0400

In the Navy, you can write yourself an award or an award for someone else. You have to be will to put the time in and do a good write up. I imagine most military branches are the same. Your administration will need to sign off on it. Plus, the skipper. It is really not that difficult, but please make it worthwhile and not BS award. I saw a Colonel get a Bronze Star for just doing his job in Iraq. He just devalued the medal.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 21 at 2017 12:59 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:59:57 -0400

Ask yourself the following. Who is the approving authority on awards? Are they enlisted? Officers? The answer's in there for ya if you look hard enough ;)

Response by SSG David Primeaux made Jul 21 at 2017 6:55 AM

SSG David Primeaux — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:55:07 -0400

Im my 20 yrs of service I have noticed this. How ever today military not like the military of yesterday don't demand the SR enlisted or a officer to help lower ranks in doing whats needed for promotions. The Officers seem to be more supported of each other and into padding there future and helping each other. It seems the enlisted not schooled on this any longer and not good at wording the paper work and don't know what to fill out.....

In fact funny thing is when I retired I was finally awarded what I would of needed for a promotion. Go Figure

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2017 9:30 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:30:41 -0400

Anyone no matter the rank can recommend some one for an award. If the deed meets the criteria and the award is written correctly and submitted I would think it would be approved, maybe downgraded or I have seen a few upgraded.

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Jul 21 at 2017 10:05 AM

SSG Michael Burdiss — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:05:16 -0400

They take care of their own.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Jul 21 at 2017 12:45 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 12:45:29 -0400

The short answer? Because they are officers. The military is the only place in the United States where a class system still exists. It's an outdated system that dates back hundreds of years that no one is willing to change. I have seen the AF give out bronze stars to officers just for serving in Afghanistan.

But in the end, awards don't mean crap (at least 90% of time).

Response by Sgt Gary Keith made Jul 24 at 2017 4:34 AM

Sgt Gary Keith — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:34:28 -0400

Damn good Question Cody. I often wonder that myself.

Response by LTC Tom Jacobs made Jul 31 at 2017 8:16 AM

LTC Tom Jacobs — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:16:52 -0400

I once heard awards explained this way. First, you have to do something. Second, someone has to witness the act. Third, if combat, the witness(es) have to survive. And finally, someone has to write it up. A private can make the award recommendation. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Response by CW4 Robert Goldsmith made Jul 31 at 2017 9:55 PM

CW4 Robert Goldsmith — Mon, 31 Jul 2017 21:55:21 -0400

The real answer is there are many lazy leaders with poor written communication skills who don't know their subordinates well enough to write good recommendations. Copy and paste was status quo while I was in the Army. I took great pride in writing evaluation reports and award recommendations that were very specific so if copied, they would be blatant lies about anyone else. I challenged my commanders to check the NO block on DA Form 638 and say why it should be downgraded. I mentored Company Grade Officers on how to write evaluations and award recommendations for Junior Warrant Officers, and NCO's for their subordinates as well instead of using fluffy bullets or narratives that lacked any substance. The focus should be on the individual, not their rank. The message to leaders is do your job. Written counseling, performance evaluations and award recommendations are part of it. You owe it to the people who do the work that fills the evaluation reports that get you promoted and awarded for.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2017 1:44 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Aug 2017 01:44:00 -0400

I only care about awards if they get me access to good schools or promotions. I don't really care to much about getting medals it's tedious it's troublesome at least the ceremonies.

Response by MSG Darren Gaddy made Aug 3 at 2017 12:52 PM

MSG Darren Gaddy — Thu, 03 Aug 2017 12:52:21 -0400

In my opinion it's true. Of my 27 years served, my last 10 I held many high profile positions to include at the Division level. A lot of the things I developed and accomplished were firsts. I was also deployed a couple of times during my last 10 where I accomplished high level payoff things that had never been done before. The significance of my last 10 years is that's how far you can go back to write a retirement award. To shorten the story, my COL submitted me for a LOM, and since I was at the Division level it had to be approved outside my installation by the next higher command. Well it was downgraded to a MSM and never left my command, but meanwhile several senior offices and even a few Sergeants Majors received the same award (LOM) for working at the Division for a few years and doing various other things, but many did not have a right Shoulder patch. By this time I had several. So this is not only perception, it's reality. Officers take care of officers, and anyone below E9 enlisted is on his own seemingly. I was once in a unit early on and after a deployment the Commander told the PLDRs/PSGs that awards will be done by rank regardless of accomplishment. So I serverd all my years in the Army and successfully accomplished my mission above and beyond in many astuere environments and I get the same award as a MAJ gets for PCSing after two years. Hummm...

Response by SFC Ed C. made Aug 4 at 2017 6:23 AM

SFC Ed C. — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 06:23:39 -0400

During my 26 years of service, I served as the full time unit member of the National Guard. I did all the paperwork for awards. In that position, I did not see many officers receiving awards. Also,I was a Plt Sgt and in that capacity, I took great care to recognize the enlisted under me. They were the ones that made the officers look good by completing their mission successfully. So to me, it lies in the NCO Corp to recognize the soldiers and make recommendations for awards. Most officers at Battalion and above were the ones to get awards. My opinion is that they need awards to move up or out.

Response by SSG Michael Burdiss made Aug 4 at 2017 8:48 AM

SSG Michael Burdiss — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 08:48:01 -0400

Because they take care of each other.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Aug 4 at 2017 3:11 PM

CSM David Heidke — Fri, 04 Aug 2017 15:11:54 -0400

Because officers approve the awards. Simple answer.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2017 11:00 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:00:19 -0400

On deployment, seems most O-3 and up get a bronze star for, well I don't know what they get them for.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2017 11:04 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 23:04:13 -0400

I know a unit that gives out arcoms for things like adminstering a pt test. They gave a mechanic an arcom at an event where there were no vehicles. People just stand in the back and have that look about it.

Response by SFC Dr. Fred Lockard made Aug 10 at 2017 12:55 PM

SFC Dr. Fred Lockard — Thu, 10 Aug 2017 12:55:55 -0400

The absolute worst example I have of this was in the aftermath of the 1st Gulf War. As a SSG NBC NCO everyone came to me for guidance and advice as we were not sure if the Iraqi's were going to use WMD or not. So I was, I would dare say, one of the more valuable and sought after people in the early days of the war. I was busy every day and the BN CDR came to me for advice quite often and even wanted me to be the BN NBC NCO (I was promoted during the deployment). So when we got back, every single officer in a leadership position in the CoC was put in for a Bronze Star and me......an ARCOM! A freaking ARCOM. Well my wife left me before the war ended and when we got back I did not care one bit for the CoC anymore and I told them to stuff their ARCOM. They did and I got nothing. Even my NCOER was crap. Now that is leadership for you folks!

Response by SP5 Chris Golembar made Aug 11 at 2017 10:07 PM

SP5 Chris Golembar — Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:07:34 -0400

If you aren't getting any awards it says more about you than the command. You're an 8 year specialist. I've met quite a few people who made E-7 in 7 years. I've also seen many guys make E-6 in 3 years.
The fact that you think privates can do the same job as LT's shows that you obviously don't know much about an officers job. In fact it's quite the opposite of what you think. An officer can do a privates job and be a rifleman, or push, quarter turn and pull on an M60 igniter. On the other hand, I've never met a private who understands MDMP, or can write an operations order. Hell, most privates don't know the paragraphs of an Op order. The few privates who can regurgitate the paragraphs still have no idea how to use them while planning a mission. If you're referencing a Bronze star deployment award then you probably don't know what they're awarded for. Now understand that I'm talking about a Bronze star without valor. Also, if your buddy in your squad does something dumb, you won't be held accountable for his actions but, an officer a thousand miles away on a beach vacation will be held accountable.
Just a little tip, don't worry about awards, especially other people's awards. Worry about doing your job to the best of your ability. Do some sole searching and figure out why you haven't been promoted and take accountability for yourself. Wont blame other people for your failures.

Response by SGT Scott Henderson made Aug 12 at 2017 7:15 AM

SGT Scott Henderson — Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:15:14 -0400

Because officers love to jerk each other off. Awards are more about your position than your job. Example, for 15 months I planned every route the MND-B commanding general took. I led the motorcade and got him to every meeting safely and on time. At the end of the deployment I got the "thanks for showing up" ARCOM. His driver who just followed me around the whole time got a DSM. Awards are all about position and nothing to do with effort.

Response by PO1 Ed Cola made Aug 15 at 2017 10:14 AM

PO1 Ed Cola — Tue, 15 Aug 2017 10:14:10 -0400

Recently I read a book about the USS Tang, WW2 submarine. Written by the captain from his patrol logbooks. It indicated that when he got a silver star he was empowered to give out 2 bronze stars to officers who contributed the most and they, in turn were able to give out lesser awards to enlisted. After the proper paperwork was approved, of coarse. There seemed to be a limit on total awards. It seemed to be a rule, written or unwritten. Can the senior staff be unconsciously handing down this system all these years? Tradition, something which once worked taken to an absurdity.

Response by CW4 Edmund Parowski made Aug 17 at 2017 5:37 PM

CW4 Edmund Parowski — Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:37:42 -0400

Theater policy - official or not - was that every platoon leader and principle staff officer would be awarded a Bronze Star. After that, the quota for the unit was pretty much used up except for the CSM and 1SGs. I suggested the creation of a Snowflake Device to be affixed to the ribbon for those who earned this award while never leaving air conditioning. Command was not amused.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2017 3:25 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Aug 2017 03:25:36 -0400

I don't know because that wasn't my experience. It seemed to me that junior enlisted were handed "impact" awards very frequently which isn't a bad thing. As a leader you want to recognize excellent performance so I didn't mind writing them. One other thing though, keep in mind that only enlisted members can get the "Good Conduct Medal" which literally is just for keeping your nose clean and doing your assigned job.

Response by Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. made Aug 20 at 2017 1:08 AM

Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 01:08:53 -0400

A time of war verses a time of peace has an impact. Considering the Vietnam War years, as a SSgt with 5 1/2 yrs, I reported for OTS. Most others were civilians - but I was able to link up & room with two who were also prior service cadets. On our first formal room inspection our room were 100% squared away and it remained that way way untill graduation. However, our Flight instructor, a Captain & Pilot, took note of our formal uniforms in the closets and made the remark he soon regretted, "I hope you all really earned all those awards." We said Yes, sir. He should have done some prior review of our records. One - a TSgt - had the most ribbons / medals including numerous Bronze Stars and a couple Silver Stars. He multiple tours in Vietman as a C130 gunner involved in combat and support rescue missions aiding all the services. He had been wounded more than once.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2017 3:24 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Aug 2017 03:24:14 -0400

1. Welcome to the military.
2. While I'm surprised that you don't quite understand why yet as an E-4, I'll give it to you plain and simple: Senior leadership only sees what the officers have accomplished. Rarely do they observe what us enlisted guys are doing behind the scenes, actually making it all happen. You have to understand that ultimately, your officer will get all of the praise when the mission is accomplished and done well, and conversely, all of the blame when something goes wrong. A lot of it has to do with MOS, I've noticed as well. It's not uncommon for an admin clerk to leave their first unit with an achievement medal (not sure why, but I've noticed that it's a common trend), while we communicators have to work a little extra for ours. I recently just received a NAM at almost six years of service, which was for running a four-man S-6 in Australia for two months, installing, operating, and maintaining a network for all of our aviation combat element in the brigade to use, as well as setting up infrastructure and providing frequent IT support for a mishap board in the aftermath of a crash off of Oahu that killed 12 Marines. It was in Australia that my 2ndLt received his first NAM with only a year and a half of experience in the fleet but again, he is who the Colonel sees day in and day out; not us little guys.

It's really all up to your leaders to determine what they feel merits an award. Some may be pretty lax about what they require and write that junior admin Cpl up for an award for having processed some few hundred individuals during their stay at the unit, and with others, you may have to pull some operational miracles in the field with your undermanned and overburdened comm section. I say don't be too hard on yourself if you're putting out every day and yet see your officers taking the credit all the time; that's simply the nature of the game we play.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Aug 24 at 2017 2:17 PM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 14:17:04 -0400

Oh come on. It is simple. The "leader" gets recognized for the accomplishments of the team. So if your team does something outstanding then you can expect the officer or the senior enlisted to get the recognition.

Response by PVT John Williams made Aug 24 at 2017 5:07 PM

PVT John Williams — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:07:36 -0400

The only award I wanted was the plane ticket home.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 24 at 2017 5:58 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 17:58:47 -0400

Who is the approval authority for awards? Well there ya go ;) Awards come quickly when you and your buddies are on the signature blocks.

Response by SP5 Joel McDargh made Aug 24 at 2017 9:13 PM

SP5 Joel McDargh — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:13:48 -0400

As one officer told me once, "It's all about my OEM." Officers and top enlisted live and die by how their efficiency reports are addressed. The more awards and decorations these individuals can show in their personnel records the better their chances for promotion. Unfortunately, in the process many deserving lower ranking EMs are denied what should have been.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2017 9:27 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:27:16 -0400

As an E-4 (SrA) i was told some of the best advice, "It's amazing the work you can do when you don't care who gets the credit". Eventually that person will have to reproduce, and eventually your talent will speak for it's self.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2017 7:55 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Aug 2017 07:55:18 -0400

Do you golf? Fluent in sports? Network well? If not, start. Otherwise you can bust your hump and you'll still get decent appraisals but won't be a the top - unless you truly are a superstar. It's all about the club and playing the politics. If that's not your style then try Plan B - truly being a superstar. More than one way to skin a cat although I've never been inclined to actually skin one.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Aug 27 at 2017 9:08 AM

SFC Ken Heise — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 09:08:31 -0400

Politics

Response by TSgt Albert Nigh made Aug 27 at 2017 8:21 PM

TSgt Albert Nigh — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 20:21:46 -0400

I was a medic in the military and worked as civilian as a certified medical aid. The majority of the care given to patients is by a CNA not a nurse, an officer in the military. The nurse is always recognized and the CNA is not!

Response by SSG George Duncan made Aug 28 at 2017 1:31 PM

SSG George Duncan — Mon, 28 Aug 2017 13:31:27 -0400

because they tell the company clerk what to do

Response by PO3 Brian Drey made Aug 31 at 2017 12:31 AM

PO3 Brian Drey — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:31:34 -0400

1 AAM is still impressive. Some people are just in the right place at the right time that's it man. Your reward should come from when you look in the mirror not from a piece of paper, a metal on your chest, or a mark on your dd214. If you did your best each day admitted any mistakes and fought for this country then your an amazing person period. I know this and society should know this also. Head up walk tall!

Response by Sgt Charles Malcom made Sep 5 at 2017 7:59 PM

Sgt Charles Malcom — Tue, 05 Sep 2017 19:59:29 -0400

I have been reading a lot of responses from Junior Officers, Senior Officers, Top of the line NCOs and some of us lower rated unknowns. I know nothing about AAM, ARCOM, or all those other MSM, or what have you. I spent almost 15 years in the Corps and I had 4 Good conduct Medals (1 every three years.) The only award I ever looked for was stripes on my arm. I worked my butt off to earn what I had, E5 in 6 years, and another nine years waiting. But, I did it to myself. When you sound off about something when you should keep you trap shut, don't blame anybody else. I had some outstanding fitness reports as far as knowledge of my MOS and my performance of duty, but there was always those two or three times I should have shut up instead of speaking up.
I did not see combat, so I never anticipated any type of award. Ribbons on the chest meant nothing to me, except someone with the MOH, and I knew three of those personally, and any man with a Purple Heart I always looked up to. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Please keep your thoughts to yourself, Sgt Cosgrove.

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Sep 6 at 2017 10:45 AM

MSG Ronnie Snider — Wed, 06 Sep 2017 10:45:56 -0400

The same reason they are giving out so many Bronze Stars theses days. It makes their records look better.

Response by CW4 Don Kite made Sep 7 at 2017 10:58 PM

CW4 Don Kite — Thu, 07 Sep 2017 22:58:01 -0400

As for enlisted the squeeky wheel gets the most grease. I mean many leaders do not take the time to write awards let alone well written awards and therefore lower enlisted missout. SGT's and SSG's should learn to speak up for themselves (write your own award) or be left in the dirt for promotion points. I know this sounds f'ed up, but the leaders many times over look the enlisted because they feel there are so many other important things to do than use their time writing awards. So, there is no reason why an individual cant write their own award and present it to their leader.

Response by PO1 Bill Adams made Sep 8 at 2017 8:47 AM

PO1 Bill Adams — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 08:47:13 -0400

Awards, Medals, Commendations, I've seen people get them that I felt didn't deserve them, including myself.

I've seen people not get them, who richly deserved them. Including myself.

My theory of Officers getting more medal:
They work directly for the people who have the authority to recommend medals, their efforts get noticed by those people. So they get medals.

My personal opinion is, if an officer gets an award, the enlisted down his chain of command should get something as well. He/She didn't do that alone.

Response by MSG William Hesser made Sep 8 at 2017 12:53 PM

MSG William Hesser — Fri, 08 Sep 2017 12:53:05 -0400

I know the feeling you have on this. Especially with the "junior 'butter bar' LT's". If it wasn't for the 'senior NCO's' they wouldn't be alive today. I used to tell the young new officers, that they will only become as good an officer as the senior NCO that grooms them.
I was put in for a Silver Star and two Bronze Stars. Paperwork got lost in the shuffle and never saw it. I eventually received (in the mail no less) an ARCOM with a 'V' as if that would 'correct the problem.
I noticed that most officers were more concerned with their 'picket fence' evaluation report and would do the 'ticket punch' to get the appropriate awards and decorations and advancements to better their career. Seems they didn't care what the troops needed to do their job.
I think that is one of the reasons why I went Special Forces. The NCO is on an even keel with the officers and we only kept them around to be a life support system for a 'signature block' so sign for the accountable material. We never let them have a map or compass, since we didn't want to get lost. We were also part of the planning of the mission.

Response by PO3 B Al Eisen made Sep 11 at 2017 3:03 PM

PO3 B Al Eisen — Mon, 11 Sep 2017 15:03:33 -0400

This odd practice goes back to when Generals paid for their own soldiers, officers were expected to have family pay their salaries, and, enlisted personnel were usually social misfits. Higher ranked enlisted got higher awards usually, also.

Response by SSG(P) Brian Kliesen made Sep 12 at 2017 3:55 PM

SSG(P) Brian Kliesen — Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:55:21 -0400

I am a reservist, and have spent my entire time in the Army Reserve where I am now a Staff Sergeant. I have been in for 12 years, have mobilized twice, and will ETS this next year. I have organized countless trainings, ranges, AT's, programs, ceremonies, worked with other branches of the military, other nations and civilian organizations. I have spent weeks preparing for courses, contacting soldiers for their required online training, medical updates, phone calls, counseling, and have travelled to visit my soldiers who do not live in the local area. I am available at all times and have helped my soldiers as an advocate, instructor, and job reference. I have been singled out by various commands, Officers and CSM's for doing an outstanding job and have received more than two dozen coins.

In the 12 years I have been in the Army Reserve, I have received no awards. None.

All my awards were from my two, one year mobilizations. I have submitted over 40 DA Form 638, Recommendation for Award, to my higher to recognize my soldiers and officers and had exactly six approved. 4 ETS awards and 2 AAM's (downgraded from ARCOM). I didn't join the military to receive awards, but I would very much like to recognize some of my soldiers for their hard work, to build an esprit de corps, to show that their efforts are appreciated and to show others that they too can be recognized.

Depending on your command, some make awards easy. There are always those stories of Officers and senior NCO's writing their own awards. At the ceremonies I have had to attend, the officers got the majority of the awards, while the enlisted rolled their eyes and shook their heads. It weakens the award structure when officers get awarded for the work their soldiers do. Not recognizing soldiers for their work is one of the many ways we lose good soldiers every day.

Response by PO1 Donald Vinson made Sep 21 at 2017 4:03 AM

PO1 Donald Vinson — Thu, 21 Sep 2017 04:03:18 -0400

I agree to a certain extent that Officers are recognized more than Enlisted. I've received a few awards during my career. There were times that I or my junior enlisted should've been recognized for going beyond our spectrum of job responsibilities/duties. I've recommended junior enlisted for awards and written up the recommendations myself and submitted it to my Seniors and seemed to somehow almost always fell through the cracks. Now that I'm retired I can relate to some of their complaints and would give this advice, lead by example, let your actions do all of your talking and be proud of everything you do knowing that you gave 110%. Whether you are Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and yes include Coast Guard, it's always "One Team, One Fight" because that is what we volunteered for and I'm proud of "All" that signs on the dotted line to protect Our Great Country. Thanks for reading, this is just my opinion.

Response by Sgt David G Duchesneau made Sep 24 at 2017 1:00 PM

Sgt David G Duchesneau — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:00:29 -0400

Being an old Combat Marine who served two tours in Vietnam, I can only say this. If no one is there to actually put someone in for any type of Award, then it's just common sense that no one will receive an Award, whatever it is. During my time in Vietnam, I received several Awards, including Unit Awards and I've seen many enlistment Marines receive all kids of Awards from Silver Stars, Bronze Stars, Purple Hearts, Navy Cross and so on. But sometimes, due to what happened during battle, there was no one left to actually submit a recommendation for Awards. Point in case, In August , 1969, we were in the Cam Lo area of South Vietnam, Quang Tri Provence, near the DMZ and we were set up on a Hill. The shit literally hit the fan. I was a squad leader at the time. As a result of a fierce firefight that ensued during the night, we were over-run by the NVA and Sapper Units. When everything was all over, we lost our CO, his radio man, my Lieutenant and his radio man and so many other great, brave and courageous fellow Marines. Marines fought their hearts out to force back the NVA and finally, the NVA retreated. So many Marines when above and beyond their Call of Duty to save their fellow Marines. The entire Company were brave heroes that night. In short, our CO was Awarded the Navy Cross, posthumously, and the entire Company received the Navy Unit Commendation. Again, I'm sure that many Marines that night could of received other Awards, but no one in Command recommended anyone, other than our CO, for any individual Awards for Valor other than the Purple Hearts. Go figure...........

Response by Capt Al Parker made Sep 24 at 2017 7:25 PM

Capt Al Parker — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 19:25:30 -0400

How would E1 - E3 get an award for Leadership or Command? They don't give awards for Latrine Queen, policing up the base, making bunks correctly, following orders, etc.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Oct 1 at 2017 11:36 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Sun, 01 Oct 2017 23:36:12 -0400

Great points. Thanks for the update. Makes sense in civilian life as well.
Goes to show you that there are still major class divisions between the workers and management.

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Oct 2 at 2017 3:04 AM

SFC Ken Heise — Mon, 02 Oct 2017 03:04:41 -0400

Politics

Response by PO1 Edward Hunnicutt made Oct 4 at 2017 3:42 PM

PO1 Edward Hunnicutt — Wed, 04 Oct 2017 15:42:54 -0400

My Military experience showed me that Officers often don't want enlisted to be given assignment awards because of personal grievances they have with one or two that would get the award.. I saw that happen way too many times....
A few times to me... Officers are not always gentlemen and very few times are they as honest as God would like them to be...
I can only think of a couple officers that I think deserve any recognition.

Just so you know that I'm not an Idiot, I had a very successful consulting service in Silicon Valley for nearly 30 years... At times I had 50 consultants on paying contracts.

Response by David Lanclos made Oct 5 at 2017 6:17 AM

David Lanclos — Thu, 05 Oct 2017 06:17:34 -0400

sometimes we need to stand in front of the mirror. We have to train them and show them, and not just try to put our hand out to receive. Some that are in authority positions don't know their job either, even they have been there a while. So, how I have to say it, train them. That is your job to train them and they need to understand 1st on top, respect and honor, gratitude, thankfulness, and do what we are suppose to do, so then, we can be recongnized and rewarded for our excellence.

Response by LTC Larry Davis made Oct 10 at 2017 1:38 PM

LTC Larry Davis — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:38:34 -0400

I didn't experience the awards cycle like some of my colleagues did. Prior to gaining O-5, I had only an ARCOM, ACM, and a USAF ACM, which obviously I couldn't wear. At my last official photo shoot, the photographer commented that I was probably the least decorated officer he'd ever seen. Some would see that as a reflection of poor performance; that is not the case. I simply had commanders (and one CG) who didn't think officers deserved awards. I had multiple recommendations submitted; all were shitcanned. However, I noticed that all those commanders and that CG sure had plenty of decorations! They just didn't award them to junior officers.

Response by PFC Robert Rice made Oct 10 at 2017 1:47 PM

PFC Robert Rice — Tue, 10 Oct 2017 13:47:10 -0400

With rank comes perks!

Response by MAJ Norm Michaels made Oct 15 at 2017 5:21 PM

MAJ Norm Michaels — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:21:26 -0400

Yes - I served E1 through E6, and then O1 through O4. My impact to the war as a major had way more significance than my impact as a SSG. These awards are not based on rank, but impact to the big picture. Yes, there have always been and always be exceptions to this rule, and there will always be some that abuse the rule.

Response by SPC Kevin Doiel made Oct 20 at 2017 5:20 PM

SPC Kevin Doiel — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:20:00 -0400

Officers look out for each other. Heck with the enlisteds.

Response by Sgt Austin McJeepington made Oct 20 at 2017 5:45 PM

Sgt Austin McJeepington — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 17:45:23 -0400

Don't listen to this "responsibility" crap. It's not that. It's that the bigger awards aren't supposed to be given out as often, so they're saved for the higher ranking individuals.

Reinforcing story number 1. I served in 2 branches. During my second branch (USMC), I was named SACO of the year for our base due to maintaining such an outstanding program as a sergeant. The civilian in charge recommended me for a NavCom. My COC attempted to knock it down to a meritorious mast because I was only a sergeant. Then they looked into my SRB and found that I already had an AAM and an ARCOM from my previous service. They settled in the middle and gave me a NAM.

Reinforcing story number 2: My younger brother joined the Marine Corps out of high school. A couple months after hitting the fleet in Hawaii, he was at the PX after work one day to pull some money out of the ATM. The young Marine in front of him locked up in a seizure out of nowhere. My younger brother caught him before he hit the ground, told someone to call 911, and performed 1st aide until help arrived. A witnessing Chaplain contacted his COC and recommended a NavCom. COC bumped it down to a NAM because he was only a PFC and didnt have any personal awards yet.

Bottom line. You want big awards, you better get big rank or do something insanely heroic.

Response by CPT John Sheridan made Oct 20 at 2017 7:29 PM

CPT John Sheridan — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 19:29:50 -0400

I remember standing at the III Corps Parade Field after the Gulf War while they handed out medals. I recall a CPT that was a Battalion Motor Officer getting a BSM with V-Device for conducting recovery operations in an Iraqi obstacle line. I thought 'what about the M88 crew? Didn't they have something to do with it?'

I used to think it was awkward that our 1990-1991 desert adventure bagged me 5 medals. NDSM, SASM, Kuwait Liberation (Saudi), Kuwait Liberation (Kuwait), ARCOM (sans V-Device).

Response by SFC Dave Beran made Oct 20 at 2017 8:35 PM

SFC Dave Beran — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 20:35:49 -0400

During my service, I received many awards. When I made SFC, I endured my junior NCOs and Enlisted were recognized with awards. Did not have to prove myself anymore.

Response by SGT Frank Pritchett made Oct 20 at 2017 9:23 PM

SGT Frank Pritchett — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:23:16 -0400

As an NCO I never bothered myself at how many medals an Officer has, only that he does his job so that I may do mine. I have noticed that Officers do pay attention to enlisted that receive awards and medals and commend them. what does matter is that the awards and medals received are justly earned. The Uniform is is your mirror of your success; wear them proudly.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2017 1:06 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:06:18 -0400

I didn't get my first ARCOM until I was a Major with 20 years in. I received four MSMs, a BSM, and one more ARCOM over the following decade as a more senior MAJ and LTC. I saw many NCOs get more awards than me.

Response by SSG Mike Cox made Oct 21 at 2017 12:41 PM

SSG Mike Cox — Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:41:31 -0400

IN THE WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN THE BRONZE STARS WERE ABUSED BY UPPER RANKS BASED ON RANK AND RESPONSIBLITY !!
AS A INFANTRYMAN RANK IS UNDERSTOOD-- IN AN ENEMY ENGAGEMENT RESPONSIBILITY IS THE { SAME FOR ALL RANKS } TO KEEP YOURSELF YOUR LEADER AND YOUR FELLOW SOLDIERS ALIVE TO COMPLETE YOUR MISSION IN ANY ENGAGEMENT !! THE BRONZE STAR WAS AN OPEN AWARD AT ANY LEVEL TO {{{ ALL }}} RANKS !!! E-! TO GENERAL !! IN WWII, KOREA, AND VIETNAM, WHY ?? BECAUSE ITS A COMBAT AWARD AND A ARCOM IS {{ NOT }} !! ONLY IF ITS GIVEN FOR VALOR !! THE ARCOM ONLY SAYS MERIT ON THE BACK !! THEIR IS SUCH A THING AS MERITOURIOUS ACHIEVMENT OR SERVICE IN A COMBAT ACTION !!!!!!

Response by SSG Michael Eastes made Oct 22 at 2017 9:11 PM

SSG Michael Eastes — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:11:25 -0400

Some of it may be MOS-related. I spent my RA time as an ER/ambulance medic, in the 70s. It was something of a sore point with us that if an MP did CPR, they got an ARCOM, at least at Ft. Lewis. We did CPR and other life-saving tasks regularly, but we were medics, so no cigar. We used to joke about taking the ambulances out and stopping speeders.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Oct 22 at 2017 10:19 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 22:19:07 -0400

I would have to say, don't stress about that stuff. Just do your best. I see that you're in the Army Reserves, which I'm not down-playing because I was, at one time, in all three components; RA, AR, NG over the 20+ years of service. If you happen to be in a unit that hasn't or doesn't deploy too often, either look for a unit that does, or attend a credible college and get a degree under your belt. That college degree will help in promotions in the Reserves, but also help you obtain a better civilian job in the long run.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Oct 29 at 2017 8:23 PM

Capt Al Parker — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 20:23:08 -0400

Because they give don't awards for Latrine Queen, Policing up the base, shinning shoes, obeying orders, and all the other Grunt Stuff the Enlisted personal are required to do.

Response by MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS made Oct 29 at 2017 9:41 PM

MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS — Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:41:40 -0400

Probably depends on what unit you are in. My BN CSM made it a point for is Team Sergeants to put deserving people in for awards.

Response by MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS made Oct 30 at 2017 8:00 AM

MSG Richard Cooper, PMP, SIPM, CMAS — Mon, 30 Oct 2017 08:00:11 -0400

Thinking more about this and I am more proud of my Master Parachutist badge and my CIB. That is enough for me.

Response by Chris Smith made Oct 31 at 2017 9:30 AM

Chris Smith — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:30:37 -0400

Maybe things have changed. My dad was a junior officer - a 2nd Lt - on Iwo Jima. He had command of 1st Platoon, E Company, 2/9, with then Lt Col Robert Cushman in battalion command. Dad was one of 9 survivors out of 2 rifle companies, E & F of 2/9, to come out of Cushman’s Pocket. His best friend in the service was 1st Lt George Todd, who had 2nd Platoon E/2/9. !st and 2nd Platoons of E/2/9 were part of the combined assault on Hill 362C under cover of darkness at about 4am, which was believed to be the location of Japanese General Kurabayashi’s command post. Lt Todd was killed in the first few minutes of action right after daybreak, and my dad was wounded, shot in the chest. Almost all of the men of the four assault platoons from E and F were killed in short order under a combined mortar barrage and machine gun crossfire. Lt Todd’s platoon sergeant, Thomas E. Barrow, took charge of the surviving men and retreated them into a defensible position until night fell. By then, my dad had begun to recover some function after the shock had worn off, and he and Sergeant Barrow led the men out of the pocket to the safety of the marine lines. All but 1 of the 9 had been wounded, including Barrow himself. One of the first things my dad did as he was being worked on in the aid station before evacuation to Guam was to put in Sergeant Barrow for the Navy Cross, which he did receive. Hell, he probably deserved the MoH, but on Iwo, “uncommon valor was a common virtue”, and the Navy Cross is nothing to be ashamed of.

That is at least ONE case of a junior officer recommending an award, which was actually made to happen. Once recovered from his wound on Guam, my dad was promoted to 1st Lt and placed in command of a rifle company, training them for Operation Downfall, when the two atom bombs were dropped, and his war was over. Having served long enough, beeen in combat, and wounded, he had earned enough points to not get shipped to China, and he was sent home. After leaving active duty, he went into the Marine Reserves, where he was promoted to Captain, and that’s what is on his old military ID card which my mother still has. He went on to have a long and successful career as a professor of Engelish Literature at Caltech. We lost him to pancreatic cancer in 1990, but he was a man whose boots were big and hard to fill. Like many of the men of his generation and experience, he did not talk much about the combat itself. My 2 younger brothers and I pieced it together from brief snatches he told us over the years, and from letters he had written to SOCS classmates, and so on. In the intervening years since his death, I’ve actually spoken with 3 of the 9 men who came out of Cushman’s Pocket alive with my dad, and they all three confirm in detail the things he said, including one who sent me a hand drawn map of the Pocket which exactly matches my dad’s description of the battlefield. But two of the people my dad spoke of a lot were 2nd Lt Todd and Platoon Sergeant Barrows. Todd, he loved like a brother. They were from the same home town of Glendale California, and they were thick as thieves. But when he spoke of Thomas Barrows, it was with an awe and respect I have never heard him use to describe any other man on the planet. He must have been one of those salty old-school Marine NCOs that scared the hell out of everybody. I had nothing to do with any of this other than being the first born son of a man who survived much horror, but one of the things I am MOST proud of about my dad’s service is that his recommendation of Thomas E. Barrows for the Navy Cross was made official, and Barrows got a measure of recognition for being the real life hero that he was; and at least 8 other men owe their lives to Barrows - my own father among them. If not for Barrows, I might likely not be here to type this.

Here is the link to Sergeant Barrow’s award: http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=7678

Valor awards for Thomas E. Barrow

The Hall of Valor is a searchable database of valor award citations collected by Doug Sterner, a Vietnam veteran and Military Times contributing editor, and by Military Times staff.

Response by PO3 Michael James made Oct 31 at 2017 10:57 AM

PO3 Michael James — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 10:57:50 -0400

Well, the Vietnam Veterans, overall, are the most awarded Veterans ever considering the "Middle Finger Award"...

Response by SGT Todd Vance made Oct 31 at 2017 5:17 PM

SGT Todd Vance — Tue, 31 Oct 2017 17:17:38 -0400

I can say as serving in the BN and BDE S-1’s, that officers and senior NCO’s may not necessarily receive more awards, but often higher awards. I’ve seen offices and senior NCO’s receive EOT awards in Iraq of BSM for literally doing nothing. My S-1 and S-4 NCOIC’s both E-7 received BSM’s and did nothing more than sit in the truck the entire deployment. EVERYTHING was delegated down to jr. NCO’s and enlisted. Staff Officers, clearly overweight, again BSM and had no duties to speak of. It’s just flat ridiculous!! Now a lot of that is leadership. As others have stated, E-5’s doing the job of an E-7 awards downgraded due to rank. Nobody can tell me that wasn’t the case. Bullets all state how said NCO was in an E-7 position, instrumental to the success of the battalion etc. BDE CDR recommended downgrade as it was an E-5 (stated on the recommendation). Didn’t help that the BN CDR, XO, CSM and BDE CSM, XO also said downgrade as he’s only an E-5.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2017 6:48 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Nov 2017 06:48:15 -0400

To encourage you to become an officer. I had the same Issue so I went to WOCS. Now I am responsible for 40 million dollars worth of stuff and a bunch of Soldiers instead of a rucksack and two Soldiers. You do the math.

Response by SrA Kelly Richard made Nov 5 at 2017 11:27 AM

SrA Kelly Richard — Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:27:24 -0500

It's kinda difficult to give a straight answer unless we directly worked with you. It could be the culture of your unit/branch, OR maybe a difference in perspective. What you might think is worthy of an award, someone else may feel it's a part of the job and they may feel that awards should be for going above and beyond, not for just doing your job. But if you did your job and you did the most of what ever you do, or what you did saved lives or $$$ then, it might be a culture of leadership that could use some polite reminders to award people and promote positive motivation. You could always go Air Force! We give out awards like we're Oprah!

Response by Helga Leonard made Nov 10 at 2017 4:44 PM

Helga Leonard — Fri, 10 Nov 2017 16:44:09 -0500

Maybe that's another class to add to boot camp.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Nov 13 at 2017 9:13 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:13:40 -0500

Who gives a shit about who gets what award? If that's why you serve you should do something else.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 9:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:50:51 -0500

I can't speak for every unit but it seems like a lot of units higher leadership are looking out for the officers because they may need more awards and medals to move up in rank. Of course the enlisted side does as well. I also think there is an actual amount of awards that can be awarded per unit at any given time. I was on a deployment and was recommended for an ARCOM with a V device and it was downgraded to a plain ARCOM so a 1LT could be awarded a bronze star. I could of course be wrong but that is what happened and I've seen it before. Awards aren't everything though. People know your worth by your actions and not what's on your chest.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2017 6:03 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:03:47 -0500

Simple answer. Your NCOs failed at submitting recommendation for awards or you have done nothing to outshine your peers.

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 14 at 2017 9:08 AM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 09:08:09 -0500

If you only have 1 AAM in 8 years, you're doing something wrong lol

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2017 8:13 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 20:13:55 -0500

This is a great question. Clearly, no policy prevents any rank from receiving any level of award. Instead, there are only two questions that matter: a) does someone care enough to write an award and b) who must approve it.

To answer the first question, you should talk to your NCOs and officers about what it takes to earn an award, as either can initiate one. Do not focus on rank, as it something that you can't change. Instead, focus on what YOU can do in your current rank. For instance, a SPC can (most likely) earn an award for being your BN's Soldier of the Year. On the other hand, a SPC can't earn an award for being the best CO CDR at NTC.

To answer the second question, you should read AR 600-8-22 in detail. A commander simply shouldn't approve an award because they feel like it. Instead, it is a deliberate act that must convey meaning on the award (unlike the Service Medals and Service Ribbons in Chap 5). In your case, this may involve reflecting on your previous contributions along the lines of the other people who responded to this post.

Response by MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson made Nov 19 at 2017 5:58 PM

MAJ R. Andrew Hoskinson — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:58:16 -0500

Part of the problem is that we give out too many awards. The Army should stop awarding end-of-tour awards. Your reward is your great OER/NCOER that will get you promoted. Awards should be impact awards only, given for exceptional /valorous performance of duty tied to specific events/activities. That said, end of tour awards tend to be higher level awards for officers due to the higher “level of responsibility” in most officer roles vis-a-vis enlisted roles.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2017 12:27 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Nov 2017 12:27:01 -0500

As a specialist, what are you required to do? As a PFC, I was on a team and walked around with part of a crew served weapon. As a specialist, you might possibly be a team leader, but likely aren’t. Meanwhile a brand spanking new 2LT has more than just his rifle and place in the unit to worry about. He has you and 30-40 other joes. There is such a thing as the burden of leadership, and with increased responsibility comes increased reward. I can’t say it more bluntly than that, having been on both sides of the fence and being that PFC that didn’t receive a medal.

And what imperial evidence do you have that officers are recognized far more? I would say across the board it is much less. For every platoon leader or CO that receives an award, there are dozens more enlisted that do when you leave country or PCS.

If you have been in for 8 years and only have an AAM, start looking at the factors. Has what you have done rated an ARCOM? After 8 years I am assuming you are an NCO and no longer a SPC. If that’s the case, why have you not sat down with your platoon SGT or other leaders and plead your case?

It’s not a black and white officer v. Enlisted issue. It has much to do with your leaders and what you do compared to everyone else.

And anyone can put someone in for an award. If all else fails, write one up for yourself if you feel you deserve it and have your squad leader or PSGT pass it on up.

Response by SPC Alejandro Martinez made Nov 25 at 2017 9:11 AM

SPC Alejandro Martinez — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 09:11:23 -0500

As a former Army HR enlisted soldier, I think that anybody getting an award, in the army, depends on 1. the person getting/deserving the award, 2. the person recognizing the merit, 3. the person (42A) actually writing/setting up the award, 4. the NCO over the 42A's, the 5. S-1 officer in charge of this whole process, and the 6. commanding officer of that unit. The ball can be dropped anywhere much more easily than it can be dunked for a 3-pointer, and for varied reasons. I made it a point to get the guys as many awards as they could before the time was up. If you have research skills and the luxury of time, a good 42A lower enlisted can fill up your chest with ribbons and medals.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2017 6:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Nov 2017 18:02:11 -0500

Interesting thing about awards, one fellow officer made a comment regarding giving awards to officers, to the effect that your reward as an officer generally is your OER. Until you are in a combat tour, and it seems like the BSM is the attaboy award.

Response by CW4 Robert Augur made Nov 27 at 2017 12:05 PM

CW4 Robert Augur — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:05:34 -0500

As a Spc4 in 1974 I asked the same question. I could tell you what I was told but that type language is not allowed on this site. Suffice it to say if you stay in long enough you will one day understand.

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 30 at 2017 10:09 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:09:33 -0500

Officers will get awards for simply doing their job after a deployment. Same with Plt Sgts and up on the enlisted side. I remember having to stand at attention in Iraq watching the officers congratulate themselves and each other jobs well done as if they had apparently won the war without the hundred enlisted men standing behind them haha. I'm not as salty about it as I sound I just think its a funny anecdote. I agree with the people saying not to worry about them though, just do your job and help weigh down some officers chest and enjoy yourself while you're in.

Response by CW3 Michael Clifford made Dec 2 at 2017 6:58 PM

CW3 Michael Clifford — Sat, 02 Dec 2017 18:58:46 -0500

There is no rhyme or reason on who receives awards. Much of awards for enlisted personnel is how much your leadership cares about you and recognizes your contribution you provide to the mission. I saved a child in 1982 with effective use of the Hiemlich maneuver. No award because my immediate CW3 did not care for me and leadership above this was unaware of the action I took. Then, in 1986, I saved a woman with a sucking chest wound after she shot herself with a .357 revolver in a suicide attempt. Again, no award because I was in the middle of a PCS move and my Command was totally unaware of my action. I was never one to politic for awards and was taught by my parents to be humble. I finished my Army career as a CW3 and all of my award citations sit in a cedar chest and not on public display.

Response by Al Reynolds made Dec 23 at 2017 10:54 PM

Al Reynolds — Sat, 23 Dec 2017 22:54:47 -0500

That's a good question... Why are officers even considered for awards... They shouldn't be... The award system should recognize the heavy lifters. The officers should be honored knowing it was their leadership or extreme good luck to have been surrounded by good men to whom those awards should go.

Response by SFC Richard Galli made Dec 24 at 2017 6:29 PM

SFC Richard Galli — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 18:29:26 -0500

"5 jump chumps" lame
I put three men in for Bronze Stars for bravery, two reduced to Arcom with "V" one more denied. I wish you could have seen their valor... one was even badly wounded
A civilian reporter asked at an award ceremony where 26 PHs & 17 BS "for merit" were awarded "are Purple Hearts for enlisted men and Bronze Stars for officers?"

Response by SFC Derrick Hardison made Dec 24 at 2017 11:35 PM

SFC Derrick Hardison — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 23:35:40 -0500

SFC Malcolm Haugen, very nice post! It's hard to get a straight response out of someone who is out of touch with the Soldiers. NCO's go above and beyond everyday with their Soldiers and are often left overlooked, underpaid and under appreciated.

Response by 1SG Michael Bonnett made Dec 24 at 2017 11:43 PM

1SG Michael Bonnett — Sun, 24 Dec 2017 23:43:11 -0500

The honest uncomfortable truth is officers always look after themselves before the enlisted. I grew up in the military and did over 20 myself. Observe and form your own opinion. Think on this.

No one can name a flag rank officer who has gone to jail for committing a felony in the last 100 years in the US military justice system. Name one and I will delete this comment, if the admins do not do it after a flag officer reads this.

Good luck on finding a flag officer who has gone to prison under the UMCJ. I can name you several where the civilian courts said enough and went after them but there is a strange absence under the Uniform Code of Military Justice... The only example the Generals and Admirals can point at is a flag officer who committed 3 counts of forcible rape on one of his subordinates and did not go to prison and was not even dishonorably discharged. He retired as a two star and will get an over $150,000 dollar a year pension.

You can find dozens of flag officers who have committed felonies but their peers just will not prosecute, even when Congress demands it. They will instead force them to retire and then lie to Congress about it.

You will note for enlisted men retirement is a favorable action and cannot been done when you are accused of crime. Not so for officers....... This preference or looking the other way starts with awards for junior officers who do not deserve them and leads to what we have now with our senior officers.

It is no surprise to me why officers get awards fighting from their desks that enlisted men do not even get after dying in combat. I have seen this rot growing for over 50 years now, and each year it is worse.

This rot is a cancer to the Armed Forces of the United States.

I think if we could shoot a PVT in WWII for cowardice why can we not send a senior officer to prison?

Perhaps the President could ask the Chiefs.....

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2017 12:53 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:53:05 -0500

You say "it seems that officers are recognized far more often than enlisted soldiers". Is that in fact true, in today's military? I don't have enough information to comment on your personal situation. I can only give this advice. If you as a leader at any level receive an award, look at your subordinates and determine which of those own a part of that award being that they work for you. Then be sure to nominate the one or two (maybe more depending on your position) individuals for an award that obviously they deserve. No leader accomplishes the mission on his/her own.

Response by SFC Fred Youngs made Dec 25 at 2017 6:04 PM

SFC Fred Youngs — Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:04:23 -0500

Enlisted in 1974 the only Award that was on my chest was the NDSM and then the Army came up with the (About 1978-1979) Overseas Ribbon and the I joined the Army Ribbon. I did my Job and I future Awards for My work. The highest award I got was an ARCOM. As a Retiree Recall I worked for an W-5 and was Platoon Sgt. I guess he could write Awards as I got a MSM at End of Tour. I agree with a lot of what has been said here. The Awards Program in the Army is Broken. Especially for Sr. NCO's and Officers.

Response by SSG Mike Hagerty made Dec 28 at 2017 10:56 AM

SSG Mike Hagerty — Thu, 28 Dec 2017 10:56:56 -0500

RHIP. Then again, I was awarded the MSM in 1979 as a Staff Sergeant, which I later learned is normally reserved for field grade officers, senior CWOs, and senior NCOs. It was a great honor, and total suprise to me, because I was leaving the Army after 9-1/2 years of service to return to civilian life. I am grateful to the officers who went out of their way to recognize a departing soldier.

Response by Lt Col Eric Plura made Dec 31 at 2017 4:53 PM

Lt Col Eric Plura — Sun, 31 Dec 2017 16:53:20 -0500

I don’t believe that’s the case but I’l admit that I’m not the subject matter expert on the issue

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Jan 1 at 2018 12:35 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:35:27 -0500

Higher up the food chain in getting awards both put in and approved. Plus I suppose you can say they have chances at "leadership" awards that lower soldiers don't have , by default of being in-command to begin with.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Jan 1 at 2018 12:58 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 12:58:20 -0500

To the OP . On another note, Have you been in units that were "stingy" with awards to begin with, or in an MOS/duty station that awards don't occur much? For example, me an enlisted tanker , was two years in Germany during a time of high readiness and many training exercises and readiness inspections and with commanders who awarded based on consistent levels across the board . In two years I got 7or 8 AAM's, (silver oak leaf+bronze oak leaf or 2) 4-5 for gunnery , 1 an inspection, 1 special service, 1 attaboy when I left. I would not have had all those chances to win/earn an award anywhere else , though at my second duty station I got another 3 AAM's and an Arcom when I left , for my last field exercise. I had a lot of chances to earn awards, because of my MOS, combined with my competency, being part of a good team, and a good chain of command and where I was at, it takes those 5 things , if even one is missing , well you're just outta luck. .

Response by CPT Earl George made Jan 1 at 2018 7:57 PM

CPT Earl George — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 19:57:34 -0500

A short awards story you might find interesting. Germany 1974. I'm the assistant 1st brigade 3ID S-1. My boss comes into my office and tells me that our brigade commander has just gotten a butt chewing from the Division Commander for having the best brigade but not having one individual put in for an achievement award. He further tells me that I should expect some coming from the battalions and to make sure they are properly filled out. The first one comes from the 3/7th Cav. It is not properly filled out and I call them to come and get it. The S-1(CPT Charles C. Hagemeister ) comes to my office to pick up the recommendation for award that needs to be corrected. In 1967, in Vietnam SP4 Hagemeister, an Army medic, received the medal of honor. WE had a good chat, told him what was needed to correct the recommendation and I met my first MOH recipient.

Response by PO1 Scott Fitzpatrick made Jan 7 at 2018 8:02 PM

PO1 Scott Fitzpatrick — Sun, 07 Jan 2018 20:02:32 -0500

Perhaps this is the case in the Army, but the NAVY tossed out NAMs like candy...I had four, plus a NCOM and for just doing the job I was trained for.

Response by MAJ Doug Mattox made Jan 8 at 2018 12:17 AM

MAJ Doug Mattox — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 00:17:36 -0500

I was upset about this during my tours in Iraq. I think I was most bothered by the number of Bronze Stars awarded. I went and read some of the recipients stories from WWII. I was dismayed at the differences in their stories and the reasons for the recipients being awarded the medal in Iraq. I know of an Officer who put himself in for a Silver Star for basically hearing gunfire near his Hummer. I was the G2 and close friends with S-1. I know he squashed it but I am sure others got through. I think some of the reason is, receiving medals is perceived to advance their careers. I think their perception is correct. I wonder about the integrity at times. It is like when everyone gets a trophy it minimizes the awe of those who deserved it. Just my thoughts.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jan 8 at 2018 8:47 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 20:47:17 -0500

Hmm, I remember walking up the steps of our Battalion Head Quarters with our CPO Doc. Posted on the bulkhead, on every other step was a citation for Marines who were MOH recipients. I had read them numerous times. Most of the recipients received them posthumously, all seemed to have gave their lives saving fellow Marines. I asked the CPO why there were not more “Docs” being MOH recipients. ( At that time, only 43, in the history of the MOH had received the highest award) CPO turned to me and said, “ Why give a medal for a person to do his job?” I thought about that for a while and realized it made sense. So, why do SNCO and Ofcs receive more medals and awards? We had a SNCO received an award for a field operation where he had oversaw 8 bays of vehicles being worked on for 12 hours a day for two weeks straight. Made sure all the vehicles got done. ( Wasn’t in the plan) Made sure the troops got three hot meals a day, showers, and berthing. He was an assistant, it wasn’t his job, but, he did it. I didn’t like the puke because he was a slave driver and his tact was non existent. He got the job done, at our expense, which wasn’t his job. So, yes, he got an award, and we got zip. Even though I didn’t like him as a person, I had to respect what he did. So, if you haven’t received an award, just what are you not doing? Are you doing your job? You get a paycheck for that. You get an award for making yourself stand out

Response by SGT David Greth made Jan 13 at 2018 11:17 AM

SGT David Greth — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 11:17:32 -0500

Col. Williams, sir therein lies the problem. You stated "I could not rate a MSM until I was Captain, or an LOM until I was a Colonel.." Awards should NOT be tied to rank. In '87 my Colonel put me in for an MSM knowing the CG would downgrade and he did. Why? "We don't award MSMs to E-4s." However my Col. did the right thing, put it in, "fought the good fight" and showed me how a leader takes care of and goes to bat for his troops. I'm not saying you don't. I'm just sharing my personal experience. The award should reflect the act, not the rank.

Response by SP5 Joel McDargh made Jan 13 at 2018 8:53 PM

SP5 Joel McDargh — Sat, 13 Jan 2018 20:53:42 -0500

I have been privy to this obsevation all too often when I was active. Bottom line, and this came from my CO when stationed at Ft. Bragg, an officer's or NCO's efficiency report isn't worth the paper to wipe one's butt on without the proper awards and commendations. In essence low ranking enlisted will be passed over for those awards to go to their superiors. It is the way it is.

Response by SSgt Cedric Hathway made Jan 14 at 2018 5:12 PM

SSgt Cedric Hathway — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 17:12:02 -0500

I have always put more weight on medals that enlisted are awarded. We have a local politician (Air Force LTC reserves) who touted his Bronze star, when the closest he got to in country was Kuwait City. Look at some of the Administrative personnel who get Bronze Stars. We enlisted need to take care of our own. When one of your Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen or Coasties do something above our standards make sure the appropriate officers find out. If they don't act do it yourself!
Semper Fidelis!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Jan 14 at 2018 9:57 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:57:26 -0500

Rank has its privileges...

Response by CW2 Jonathan Hall made Jan 21 at 2018 10:37 PM

CW2 Jonathan Hall — Sun, 21 Jan 2018 22:37:41 -0500

Well said MSG!! I agree with everything you said! Well said!

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Jan 22 at 2018 11:33 AM

SPC Byron Skinner — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 11:33:25 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner. The only medal that the enlisted 11B get more of the officers is the Purple Heart. 11B's carry most of the combat load, thats when we enlisted for, its our job. It is well understood that many acts that might end up be done by a non 11B or a Junior Officer is not in their pay grade and thus beacon an act of heroism. I know of one officer in particular, an 03 who got a Silver Star for a combat fire fight he wasn't even at, he was several mile away in a very secure base camp at a staff meeting, it was a Monday. I know this to be true because I took out a NVA mortar position with out an assistance or back up. I not nottin' for it although the mortar was getting registered on a road where only seconds after being taken out two duce and a halts with bleeding and dyeing soldiers passed through as fast as the could go. For an enlisted 11B its all in a days work. It is not an easy job, on the Vietnam memorial in Washington D.C. the most common MOS among the US Army Dead of the Vietnam War are 11B's, its our job.

Response by SSG Richard Relyea made Jan 22 at 2018 11:54 PM

SSG Richard Relyea — Mon, 22 Jan 2018 23:54:05 -0500

Part of the problem stems from commanders sending memorandum out (generally during deployment) setting minimum and maximum rewards based on rank. Such as E-7 and all officers are bronze star, E-5 and E-6 are ARCOM and all others are AAM or less. Yes I've seen it and been forced to follow it. It is shit from Col. and above trying to "take care of their own". It is wrong and should be based on merit of individual. Most LT's are about as bright as a PFC and rely on SSG or higher to complete mission. Don't get me wrong some are very high speed but in general a college degree does not mean you can lead especially in combat. Most unit commanders have seen less tires of duty than an E-5 and have certainly not been outside the wire as much as any troop.

Response by MAJ Larry Richardson made Jan 25 at 2018 12:07 PM

MAJ Larry Richardson — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 12:07:29 -0500

I am retired, having spent just less than 1/2 of my career as enlisted and a little more than 1/2 as an officer. I firmly believe that awards for enlisted ranks depend on the commanding officer! I saw my share of injustices in the Army, when it came to awards and commendations. Most of my career was in Army Special Forces where awards are not "expected", rather superb performance above the call of duty is an expectation. I've now watched how awards and commendations are given out like candy while there were less of them while I was on active duty! Awards were never meant to be incentives but that appears to be the norm now. My belief that officers garnered more decorations than enlisted (while I was on active duty) pobably stems from the fact that officers know how to use the regulations to get those awards while, many times, overlooking the fact that they wouldn't have been deemed worthy of those awards had it not been for the support of the enlistedman/women. Just my two cents!

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 1:50 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 13:50:25 -0500

It is not just officers, Mobilized with a Brigade I seen a Sergeants Major that was in charge of just 4 enlisted soldiers, 1 SGT, 1 SPC and 2 PFC's and NCOER tracking, for which there were very few enlisted in the G4. The whole tour never left Bagram to visit his troops in other FOB's . Major achievements were cleaning up a motor pool and crunch numbers. End or tour award-Bronze Star. The four enlisted that did the work for what his Bronze Star received a Campaign Medal.

I found it ironic that the most senior enlisted member that is suppose to take care of enlisted troops take credit for their work and keep it all for himself.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 2:11 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:11:45 -0500

It beats me. It makes no sense that some 2LT stuck in the S4 automatically gets a bronze star for his 4 months in Iraq and the SSG out there leading his Platoon everyday for 365 days goes home with an ARCOM. LoMs are rarer than a MoH, and DSCs are essentially reserved for Generals only. Then, you have Brigade Commanders writing policy letters that specifically say (I wish I was kidding on this one) that RANK WILL BE USED FOR DETERMINATION OF AWARD CRITERIA. Um no, rank has no place in determining if somebody is deserving of an award or not.

Response by Cpl Brian Ruby made Jan 28 at 2018 8:03 PM

Cpl Brian Ruby — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 20:03:52 -0500

Because the officers award them to each other. Duh!

Response by PO1 Kevin Arnold made Jan 28 at 2018 10:00 PM

PO1 Kevin Arnold — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 22:00:35 -0500

I had seen it all the time to where a senior officer got a higher award than the enlisted personel that was actually doing the job. Being the awards clerk for one command I had seen it done more times than I can count.

Response by SSG Floyd Morris made Jan 29 at 2018 2:33 AM

SSG Floyd Morris — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 02:33:59 -0500

I'am a Vietnam VETERAN, and almost everytime whenever we were on patrol, or clearing a mine field, we would not see an officer! Although even when we did they normally whenever they showed up after we got it done, then they would show! And about 14 days to 30 days, later would have an awards for the Valor. The enlisted men verry seldom got noticed for the part that they did for that Butter Bar Lt. Seems that they hardly ever even got drity, however even though they didn't know shit, they would try to tell us what we did wrong! Then 30 days later the officer got a Bronze Star, fore of us enlisted men got a ARMY ACOMADATION!

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Jan 29 at 2018 7:33 AM

SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales — Mon, 29 Jan 2018 07:33:39 -0500

Many times a Soldier can get stuck in an MOS that really just has them doing their job during projected work hours. Unless someone recognizes that you are coming in to complete unit mission tasks during your personal off time.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made Feb 4 at 2018 7:03 PM

CPT Tom Monahan — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 19:03:53 -0500

First Line Leaders need to start the process and that means they need to know how the award system works. Now here’s a question. What means more for a first or second hitch Private thru Specialist: time off, early promotion, special duty, a school or a medal? I think the medal may not rate highly. What motivates the individual should be used as the reward.

Response by CPO William A. Bullard Jr. made Feb 5 at 2018 4:28 PM

CPO William A. Bullard Jr. — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:28:03 -0500

You gotit' Master Gunn'y. The only bloody guarantee you get when you join the Tribe is that you will serve. Learn it, live it, love it and you will do well. When you get up and scrape your face in the morning before Reveille you will be comfortable with what you see looking back at you from the mirror. Your shipmates will know it, your fire team will know it and in the end that's all that really counts; the rest is cream cheese. Anchor'sAweigh/SemperFi--ChiefBull--

Response by SPC Travis Arrington made Feb 7 at 2018 2:05 PM

SPC Travis Arrington — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:05:01 -0500

I was on a deployment supplementing SF when there weren't enough to go around. My unit was broken up and sent all over Afghanistan. I was a Spc doing the job of a 1lt or ever Cpt. I was put in for a bronze start but our command decided it did not matter what you did, it all depended on your rank. So officers got a bronze star, NCOs got a ACM, and jr enlisted got an AAM. I thought that was absolutely ridiculous, lazy, and unjust. Command did a huge disservice to all it's subordinates.

Response by SGT David Reed made Feb 7 at 2018 10:17 PM

SGT David Reed — Wed, 07 Feb 2018 22:17:57 -0500

I didnt see that as fact during my career. I would a tribrute this as to the old saying "It,s not what u know, but who u know.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Feb 11 at 2018 11:43 PM

SSgt Bruce Probert — Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:43:24 -0500

There are a lot of reasons that not all get their story told, the people who write the after action reports usually magnify their contributions from their perspective not that it means a bias against others but more how they see through their eyes, especially their first time under fire. If every act of courage was documented we'd have to look into the souls of those who have stepped up and boarded that helicopter going into harms way facing their fears and doing it anyway. We need to step up each of us and recognize those whose service is exemplary whether or not it's running a detail or their performance under fire. It's the Gunny that keeps the men and their needs foremost with the platoon leader.

Response by SPC Michael Dehn made Feb 12 at 2018 5:07 PM

SPC Michael Dehn — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 17:07:50 -0500

My CO lost a truck during Desert Storm. It had a prk 77 radio in it with a Vinson. She told the driver not to clear the Vinson.

She received a bronze star medal. I didn't think it was right.

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Feb 13 at 2018 1:13 AM

CW3 Jeff Held — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 01:13:56 -0500

I had 2 separate LOM’s downgraded by the CG at two separate duty stations. Why? I was told ‘quotas’.

Response by 1stSgt Casey Crowfoot made Feb 19 at 2018 3:55 PM

1stSgt Casey Crowfoot — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 15:55:44 -0500

Why does everyone expect an Officer to write the award. I wrote several awards the first was as a Sgt. Of course I also know that awards boards are strange. I was once written for an award and the award board said a GySgt couldn't have possibly done what the award recommendation said. It had to be an Officer who did what was written. So it was down graded.
Don't worry about awards, if I had an award for each time someone said they were writing it. The top one would say continued on other side. You know what you did and so do the people you work with. I would rather have the respect of my men than all of the awards. That is the true award. Having your men call you and tell you thank you for your leadership and guidance.

Response by CPO Atwell Suman made Feb 25 at 2018 5:11 PM

CPO Atwell Suman — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:11:47 -0500

Back in the early seventies, ADM Zumwalt directed that enlisted people should be better recognised through awards and commendations. Then the shit hit the fan. People were getting awards for showing up on time and some awards were degraded, i.e., the Navy Acheivement Medal used to be awarded by the type commander such as COMSUBLANT. Mine was signed by Adm. Eugene Wilkenson and it was vetted before being awarded. Now days a C.O. can recommend and award a N.A.M. which degrades the importance.

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Mar 11 at 2018 12:42 AM

MSG Louis Alexander — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 00:42:09 -0500

I have over the years wrote up and recommended subordinates and peers for awards, more than 90% were approved. The problem I’ve witnessed throughout the years is that supervisors beginning with Sergeant E-5 above are too idle or simply ignorant to the fact. I see soldier’s break their backs in an effort to do good and be recognized only to have their supervisors use them as toilet paper. When questioned, these heartless selfish leaders always give the same explanation; “I’m in the process of writing it up”, or I’ll have you an award before you go to your next duty station. Yet these same leaders will hound their superiors for a particular award. When I had junior NCO approach me inquiring about a personal award, I used to ask them, how many have you recommended for your soldiers? Naturally it’s the same old story, I’ve been too busy or I’m working on it. I use to review their counseling folder after observing them and their work ethics rather or not I’d write up and submit an award. I remembered when I was a private how NCO’s would utilize me for this or that and not once consider me for anything other than shit details. I made myself a promise that I’d ensure everyone would be entitled to something even if was a certificate, and I found by reviewing their counseling folder, I would be able to make a better decision on what avenue to take. Many of my junior NCO’s never, ever counseled their soldiers. And when evaluations rolled around I asked to review their folders and nothing negative was in the soldier’s folder, and yet these same NCO’s would rant and rave how bad these soldiers were. I’d tell them, write them an award, for what I could tell from their counseling folder, nothing negative was ever written, therefore that soldier was one of the finest soldiers in the US Army and they will be identified as such. As for them, they get what they sow. If they were leaders and trainers with a dedication to enhance their soldier’s capabilities and build their proficiency, I might consider an award, otherwise, like them, it went in one ear and out the other. I can’t speak for Commissioned Officer’s but I do believe they probably work the same way.

Response by PO1 Joseph Smith made Mar 12 at 2018 1:51 AM

PO1 Joseph Smith — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 01:51:15 -0400

Officers have more free time and are better at paperwork? haha

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2018 1:52 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:52:01 -0400

Go Officer and don't make the same mistake. Likewise when you are a SNCO. As a 1st Sgt or SgtMaj it becomes your job to advise the Commander, same as a Plt Sgt to a PC. You'll never change the double standard entirely, but recognize that even the first O in your C of C has responsibilities far above what you have. Whether they honor them is a different matter. If you are a Fire Team Leader then you have more than yourself to lead. The Plt Cmdr has 10 times that many.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 13 at 2018 3:11 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 03:11:14 -0400

Sorry Specialist, but your platoon leader has a heck of a lot more responsibility that you do. Gee - only one AAM after 8 years of service. I feel sorry for you - NOT! I was in for 21 years before I got my first, and only, AAM. If you want to play the "it sucks to me" game - give me a call. You will lose every time.
Do officers get more awards than enlisteds? I'm not sure. I've seen a lot of enlisteds with five or more AAMs or ARCOMs. Personally, I don't think it has as much to do with rank as it does with how tall and good looking you are. But that's just my opinion.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2018 1:32 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 13:32:18 -0400

I never noticed that. I was enlisted on active duty for about four years. I left with a bunch of awards. Including five AAMs and a PCS ARCOM. It may have to do with scope of influence. I had an MSM downgraded to ARCOM because I was an E5 squad leader and all others were E6 and got MSM. Oh well...

Response by SPC William Wells made Mar 21 at 2018 9:43 AM

SPC William Wells — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:43:44 -0400

Because they put themselves in the award.

Response by SPC William Wells made Mar 21 at 2018 9:53 AM

SPC William Wells — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:53:49 -0400

It's because the enlisted do all the hard work, while the officers take all the credit.

Response by 1SG Mark Reed made Mar 24 at 2018 5:31 PM

1SG Mark Reed — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:31:04 -0400

Funny how the officer comments on this broken system try to make excuses for their good old boy awards program. It's gonna take strong NCOs to stand their ground when submitting the awards. Many times awards are submitted and the approving authority doesn't even know the troop receiving it. I observed down grades many times in my 23yrs and sometimes you need to stand your ground with the officer corps. They seem to put themselves on a pedestal and think they are more important than the rest of the crowd. I did have the privilege to work with a few quality officers that truly valued their enlisted and took great care of them.

Response by SSgt Dwayne G Haines made Mar 24 at 2018 8:59 PM

SSgt Dwayne G Haines — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:59:08 -0400

Good one, mine hardly went out on missions but got a Silver Star. The coward would ride 4th seat in the back because it was where he said he knew that the enemy would never expected the leadership would be sitting!!!

Response by PO2 Steven Parker made Mar 24 at 2018 10:48 PM

PO2 Steven Parker — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 22:48:30 -0400

That is the way it always has been.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Mar 25 at 2018 11:31 AM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 11:31:02 -0400

My question is, what have you done to earn an award? Sometimes, especially if you are enlisted, you have to push the issue concerning awards.

Response by MAJ Gregory M. made Mar 27 at 2018 11:34 AM

MAJ Gregory M. — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 11:34:30 -0400

Having served both with troops and at headquarters over 6 combat rotations, I can say that this topic was frequently discussed at all levels of command. There is a difference between valor awards and service or end of tour awards. Valor awards are based on your individual actions and their effect on protecting and leading others or defeating the enemy in a specific combat situation. Service or end of tour awards are based on the impact and level of responsibility that you held during the period. Generally the perception at higher ranks is that to get a higher level award, like a Bronze Star, you must not only have done a really great job in your individual function but have done something that impacted the larger mission. One of my Staff Sergeants got a Bronze Star on my last Afghanistan tour, because he was flying and driving all across the Division AO training troops going out on patrol improved Counter-IED TTPs, and we were able to show with data that the training was reducing casualties. I have also seen many instances when higher headquarters send back or downgrades awards because the write-up doesn't justify the level of award, and you have to have a local headquarters that can fight for those awards and push the paperwork to get them approved.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Apr 3 at 2018 2:35 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 14:35:46 -0400

I am puzzled, With 8 years in and you are a E-4 and worried about awards. You should be worried about rank and why you are still an E-4 and not at lease E-5 and on your way to SSG. I saw this when I first went into the Army, guys satisfied with PFC E-3 and if they got Spc 4 they just quit trying for anything else. You have to set a goal and work towards it. It doesn't hurt to make sure that others above you know of your goals. They will often help you to it or tell you what you need to do to get there. The ribbons look pretty but the stripes look better.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 6:02 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 18:02:33 -0400

Imagine this, you are an officer, signed for every piece of equipment your soldier's control. You are in charge of your soldiers, and their actions. Now you are not only accountable for your actions but theirs as well. It is your call whether you want to downgrade PPE, basically, every safety factor that officer can be accountable is at his discretion. You being a single soldier are only accountable for yourself, and maybe a few underlings, but only in the eyes of your Chain. So if your soldier messes up, you may get punished, but they are the ones who are actually responsible. And if you perform great, good but you are one person. If an officer performs great, that means all of his soldiers did too. When you play chess, do you think that the rook is smart because he just took out the queen, or do you think you are smart because you are in charge of the rook, and its capabilities? I hope that answers it all.

Response by SSgt Sean Brown made Apr 6 at 2018 1:49 AM

SSgt Sean Brown — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 01:49:01 -0400

Because that's the way it's always been; we won the Revolution, yet we allow our politicians, as well as military officers, to behave like parasitic and ineffective English princes, royals, kings and monarchs, not American Civil Servants, which is what they all are!

Response by CPT Mike Wright made Apr 12 at 2018 2:29 PM

CPT Mike Wright — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 14:29:19 -0400

Simple. Because officers recommend and approve the awards. Probably not the answer anyone likes. But that was the reality of my time in service. But I'll also add this: I received more awards during my three years as an enlisted than I did during the nine years I was an officer. And I feel I did twice the amount of work as an officer.

Response by LTC Lewis Cox made Apr 12 at 2018 5:25 PM

LTC Lewis Cox — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:25:01 -0400

SPC Cody, officers recognize the need for commendations and medals earlier and tend to put each other in for them!

Response by SGT George Duncan made Apr 15 at 2018 12:55 PM

SGT George Duncan — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 12:55:57 -0400

they sign the paper work and it makes them feel important

Response by Capt Seavy Barefoot made May 3 at 2018 7:01 PM

Capt Seavy Barefoot — Thu, 03 May 2018 19:01:12 -0400

I have heard this concern.. I served as an officer and enlisted. I flew over 2000 hours as a bomb and Airdrop Navigator, only awarded one medal for flying , The Air Medal, my pilot was awarded a DFC. We flew in the same cockpit ,same mission, so go figure. In Special OPS my Pilot was my Boss.
Life isn't about the medals but about service. To get the Awards your bosses have to be on the ball and recommend you. ? When I was a 2Lt, I was combat capable, ready and flew many combat missions. Prior to becoming a 2nd Lt I completed two college degrees. I attended and completed Flight School, Survival School, and held 11 Quals in my airframe. I beg to disagree that junior officers are incapable of leading , although being a prior NCO I understood the importance of Enlisted Airmen.

Response by CPL Any Jim made May 5 at 2018 5:29 PM

CPL Any Jim — Sat, 05 May 2018 17:29:43 -0400

Its usually the CSM that down grades the awards. It has nothing to do with officers but they signatures! 9 times out of 10 it is the CSM uncle tomming the enlisted or junior enlisted ! CSM has no responsibilites what so ever : except to be senior NCO advisior and super secertary for battalion commander! So award is usually down graded by CSM before LTC even gets a chance to look at or even sign it. CSM will say we need to keep enlisted and junior enlisted in check and giving deserving award will lead to a revolt? Technically CSM is out ranked by even lowest commisioned officer: i.e. 2LT! So yah CSM on an every day level says Commisioned Officers are weak, dumb and any other slander and curses about officers in private; but behind closed doors CSM is the one saying "Sir or Ma'am yah that 2LT deserves and ARCOM and yah them enlisted are below us do not approave they award..... There fore reasons enlisted and junior enlisted to get less awards : thank CSM ! & reasons Officers get shiny awards is thanks to CSM !

Response by CPL Any Jim made May 5 at 2018 5:44 PM

CPL Any Jim — Sat, 05 May 2018 17:44:28 -0400

CSM is technially a polished name for head battalion secertary! But it usually CSM that downgrades enlisted and junior enlisted awards before LTC has option to see, approave and sign! Technically a 2LT out ranks a CSM ; so yah a CSM publicly slanders & curses officers : but in private behind closes doors CSM is behging and saying yes yes yes ' give that officer a shiny award ! Most officers awards are deserving' the discrepency is that enlisted awards must be 1 level or 2 level below award deserved ! #CSM Ennis Air Borne all day ! CSM will sell out enlisted and junior enlisted with hopes of a kick back in return ..... Like they did the commisioned officers a favor by keeping them from signing a deserving award ! Officers understand 1 person does not make the army ' but a team makes us strong. But if you make it to CSM that is 1 of the most selfish ranks in the army? What does a CSM DO ? To make it to that rank you have had to step on people , slander and intentionaly attack sum 1 career? Just do not under stand why army has a enlisted rank higher than SFC ? Does being a CSM mean you never qualifed or was accepted in OCS ? Why is there a rank of CSM ? Awards would be more valid and less people would be screwed over if there was no CSM rank ?

Response by Capt Terry Fillmore made May 5 at 2018 9:31 PM

Capt Terry Fillmore — Sat, 05 May 2018 21:31:30 -0400

During my first 14 years in the Marines (74-88), I received a NDSM and a GCM. I was enlisted for 7 years and had 4.9/5.0 proficiency and conduct marks. My fitness reports were outstanding from Sgt. to Capt. Back then I had no expectations. It wasn't until a few years later that the NAM became popular. Even the Vietnam Vets that trained me had relatively few awards (6 or fewer). For whatever reason, it seems that awards are much easier to earn today.

Response by PO1 Tom Mcbride made May 7 at 2018 8:58 AM

PO1 Tom Mcbride — Mon, 07 May 2018 08:58:05 -0400

From what I saw in the Navy, it is pretty simple. Either be part of the club or be so exceptional that they can't deny you. It isn't an officer and enlisted thing, it is a buddy benefit system. Also, I got my fair share in the 6 years active, but none for 4 years reserve. I think being a reservist definitely limits potential for awards, relative to active. Bear in mind, I made E6 in 6 and then quickly found how limited billets are in the reserves as well, since I got out as an E6. Ultimately, you need to decide if you are going career or not. If you are, find your path to officer life. If you aren't, you will find that all those awards don't generally mean a damn thing to a potential employer. I never once had anyone ask what awards I had for a job interview.

Response by SSG Ryan Molton made May 13 at 2018 8:36 PM

SSG Ryan Molton — Sun, 13 May 2018 20:36:01 -0400

It is a messed up system for sure ! It is not a system that is equal. Just know that the bottom line is you know what you did or didn’t and the officer even though maybe got a bronze star really didn’t earn it or he earned it in a different way maybe by leading from the joc.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made May 13 at 2018 10:47 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sun, 13 May 2018 22:47:13 -0400

If you are a company Commander your recommendation will come from a battalion commander, battalion commander from a brigade and so on. If you are enlisted the individual who would write your recommendation is likely to carry less weight. The likelihood of action on that recommendation is therefore is going to be less. It is a function of influence on the decision makers. I never worried about awards. My goal was to do the best not only that I could, but better than others in my position. I only have a couple of ribbons, but I made E5 in 19 months.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2018 5:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 May 2018 17:31:06 -0400

I am sorry this is even a question. I try to do Awards like a quote attributed to Napoleon sic "Give out ribbons and rule the world".

I would hope that we give more awards than receive them.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 1:43 AM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jun 2018 01:43:20 -0400

Can't speak for every service or circumstance obviously but my first 10 years were spent as enlisted, but the last 4 years as an officer. I received far more awards comparatively during my enlisted time than I have as an officer. It all depends on who your supervisor is and whether they care to write awards or not. If you feel you aren't being recognized as you should, take the initiative to write your own award and submit it. The worst that can happen is it being denied.

Response by SGT Tom Recupero made Jun 5 at 2018 7:31 PM

SGT Tom Recupero — Tue, 05 Jun 2018 19:31:53 -0400

They sign for the rewards

Response by TSgt Chris Cortte made Jun 8 at 2018 5:53 AM

TSgt Chris Cortte — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 05:53:03 -0400

I put my soldiers in for awards after 9/11. None of them actually got awards but our leadership took the idea and opportunity to give themselves the award. Awards are so arbitrary and inconsistent, it seems to reinforce the old boys club mentality. We had a LtCOL get a bronze star for setup up barracks for a few hundred people, after that vomit pile I gave up caring about chest candy.

Response by SFC George Simons made Jun 19 at 2018 8:56 PM

SFC George Simons — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:56:28 -0400

Because officers sign the awards. If an officer and enlisted do the same job, the enlisted gets an AAM and the officer gets an ARCOM or higher. Unfair, but just a fact of life.

Response by SFC Rick Walton made Jun 24 at 2018 6:29 PM

SFC Rick Walton — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 18:29:51 -0400

Granted, I served from 89-2010 so my experiences may not be as relevant. Having said that... I never saw an officer with opportunities to earn awards like an enlisted man in a garrison environment. Soldiers have the chance to earn awards by simply winning boards (Soldier/NCO mnth, qtr, year). I have also witnessed batch award ceremonies where AAMs are a dime a dozen following FTX and gunneries and there is no rhyme or reason for who gets one. I have been on both sides if this, didn't recieve an award I earned and recieving one I did nothing to merit. If you set yourself apart by outstanding actions and deeds you will not be recognized EVERY single time. But if you continue to excel you will recognized. If your main concern is about who gets what award when, perhaps you should reconsider you career choice. No Soldier deserves an award for doing thier job. It is what you are paid for. Guess that doesn't really address the question but, folks did a pretty good job of spelling out "life ain't fair" in other posts here.

Response by COL Dan O'Rourke made Jun 26 at 2018 7:50 PM

COL Dan O'Rourke — Tue, 26 Jun 2018 19:50:10 -0400

I agree with many comments above - the whole “your level of leadership dictates the award” is not very realistic (where the hell did this concept come from). It’s the action that is (or should be) being recognized not the individual/slot they’re in. I would suggest, and I stated this every chance I got as a BN Cdr, that every soldier should be taught how to write a DA 638. Best part of the job is promoting or awarding deserving Soldiers. Love to see the look on a Soldiers face that’s done a great job but didn’t expect the recognition!

Response by SGM Harvey Boone made Jul 1 at 2018 1:22 PM

SGM Harvey Boone — Sun, 01 Jul 2018 13:22:33 -0400

The officers get the awards that should go to the enlisted because most are incompetent and if it wasn't for the enlisted carrying them they would fall flat on their faces. Every one knows that the competent NCOS are the ones that make the Military work but its always the officer that receives the recognition. Call me what you may But I served thirty Years I,ve seen and know first hand officers also will stab you in the back in a heart beat.

Response by CPO John Krawczyk made Jul 5 at 2018 1:03 PM

CPO John Krawczyk — Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:03:51 -0400

That is known as the Good Old Boy network. They make sure they look out for each other. Unless you have a good senior enlisted supervisor you will not be recognized for the outstanding work that you do. But also if you have senior enlisted supervisor who had to work hard for his personnel awards he will be reluctant to recommend you for a personal award for just doing your job. I found that now awards are handed out at the drop of the hat for merely just doing your job. It has come to appoint that a lot of awards such as Navy Achievement and Navy Commendation are no look upon as being as valued as they once were.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 9 at 2018 9:55 AM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 09:55:56 -0400

Officers take care of officers and sometimes remember the troops. Now i know some officers i served with took care of anyone who deserved recognition. Few and far between.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jul 11 at 2018 12:09 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 00:09:58 -0400

1. Maybe because officers have a higher level of responsibility than enlisteds? An Army officer starts as a platoon leader whereas a platoon sergeant, on average, has 10 or more years time in service. After about, on average, 6 years the lieutenant is a captain in command of a company and his first sergeant has about 15 to 20 years time in service. Remember this - NCOs "run" the Army but officers "own" the Army and bear ultimate responsibility for its success or failure.

2. Maybe because officers are more likely than enlisteds to push for a medal. Senior commanders (battalion level and above) who want their junior officers to succeed are more likely to recommend them for awards so they have a "good" record. Other commanders might have the "you were just doing your job" mentality and only give awards for those who go "above and beyond".

3. There never has been and never will be a perfect awards system. Don't worry about awards. Sometimes they come and sometimes they don't. If you waste your time comparing yourself to others - you will always be disappointed. I didn't get my first AAM until I had been in for 21 years and was only a SGT. I retired as an MSG with a BSM and an MSM (plus 2 ARCOMs and the AAM). Yes, many have done better but I think I did okay and that's all that matters.

Response by SSG Bryan Hollister made Jul 12 at 2018 10:11 AM

SSG Bryan Hollister — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 10:11:32 -0400

In my opinion and experience, sometimes it comes down to ass-kissing or name recogntion. I've been both a beneficiary and a *victim* of this phenomenon. On the name-recognition front, while in the Corps in 1993, I spent time with a MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit for the non-Marines here) as a commo maintenance tech. Made multiple trips to and from ships while in transit to keep equipment working. Flew so much that the wingers *awarded* me honorary flight crew status, had my own cranial, flight patch, and they wrangled two pairs of coveralls for me. Put together the entire class IX parts block for the entire commo maintenance section. Was put in for a NAM upon return to the states. Stood in 5 different batallion formations and watched as 5 different Marines received NAMs for work that I personally had done; every single one of them had a direct connection to Headquarters at the battalion level. 4 months later, an impromptu company formation was held and my name was called. The reason? My NAM had cycled all the way through the Corps, out the other side, and had somehow ended up on the desk of the XO for the 6th Fleet. I don't know if it was because he was feeling especially magnanimous that day or if he took pity on me, but he felt it necessary to issue me a "Letter of Commendation" for my work. The NAM citation was quoted word for word. Let me reiterate: I got a letter of recognition from a Navy Rear Admiral for work I did for my Marine Corps unit. That was the day I stopped giving a shit whether or not anyone recognized my work. I did my job, well, and went home at night toy family.

On the *not gonna kiss ass* front, I served with the TNANG in Iraq in 2005 as a commo chief - both fixing them AND co-managing the comm section. 12 months in country, multiple troop movements to and from retrans sections, including he and I both spending time out on site in the *wilderness.* worked long hours both in the commo shop and the TOC, gave multiple classes to troops and officers because a lot of them had little to no experience on the SINGARS system. At the end of the tour, PltSgt and I (both of us were SSG's fulfilling E7-E8 duties throughout the tour) were put in for ARCOMs. Mine came back without a hitch, his was bounced around and eventually downgraded to an AAM, eith half of theboriginal citation trimmed out. Why? While I have never been one to suck up, he was an even pricklier ass who refused to even entertain the suggestion of playing nice. I love him like a brother and would do anything for him, but he was absolutely the epitome of *screw you, I'm doing it my way.* And when our reqards wwnt up simultaneously, I was seen as much less of a prick than he was.

Moral of this long-winded story? Unless you perform some undeniable valorous act under direct enemy fire, your likelihood of receiving an award commensurate with your actions is oftentimes directly proportional to who you know or how much ass you are willing to kiss. So if you get an award, good. If not, it's not necessarily because you didn't earn it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2018 1:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Jul 2018 13:59:36 -0400

As a retired Battalion/Brigade S-1, I can speak to the fact that officers are not getting more awards than enlisted soldiers. I can assure you that the amount of awards that are processed monthly are tallied. That tally is sent to division each month and audited to ensure there is equality among awards is distributed by demographics. I have processed at least 20 awards on a monthly basis and none of those awards included any officer. Now I have served in several units as the S-1 and that was a very common trend. Now when it comes to the type of awards among soldiers, they vary. They vary based on the impact the soldier made on the unit or the mission. If an officer made a significant impact or contribution, that officer was awarded accordingly. The same goes for an enlisted soldier. In the case of enlisted soldiers, there were some that weren't warranted, but with a tenacious command team, that award was pushed through. My point in all of this is that if you do the work or efforts it takes to get an award, your leadership will (and should) push for an award on your behalf. Eight years is a long time to only receive one award as a AAM.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Jul 18 at 2018 4:36 PM

PO2 John Driskill — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 16:36:44 -0400

Officers getting awarded with medals they never earned. Been going on since the Vietnam War in all branches of the military.

Response by Jeffrey Skibenes made Jul 20 at 2018 5:00 PM

Jeffrey Skibenes — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 17:00:02 -0400

If it makes anyone feel better this is nothing new. My son who spent 10 years in the Marines was the recipient of such treatment. His superior put him in for a bronze star in Afghanistan in 2009. The after action report clearly rises to the level of silver star and he ended up with a commendation medal with valor. He also spent 2 weeks in a hospital with a concussion bleeding from his ear when his truck drove over an IED. No purple heart or mention of anything for that either. Major Winters (ret) refers to this very thing back at the end of WWII in his book "Beyond Band of Brothers". In the end, however, I don't think that there is one straight answer here. BUT, I theorize a few: 1) Inept leaders, 2) lazy leaders (nearly synonymous with inept), 3) brotherhood of the officers in a "us vs. them" type approach, 4) hubris, and finally the one I think most fits 5) self aggrandizement!

Response by Jeffrey Skibenes made Jul 21 at 2018 9:50 AM

Jeffrey Skibenes — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 09:50:44 -0400

Here is a perfect example of this problem:
Lipton was part of the Carentan raid by Easy Company supervised by Lt. Colonel, Robert George Cole who got injured from a shot fired by a sniper. Lipton himself received injuries in the groin and face for which he was honored with a ‘Purple Heart’ while Lt. Col George Cole received a ‘Medal of Honor’ for his effective leadership

Response by PO2 Matthew Barnebey made Jul 24 at 2018 11:35 PM

PO2 Matthew Barnebey — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 23:35:18 -0400

I am sorry, but I am in the same boat. I did get only one major award- a Navy Achievement Medal and when I finally got it, I was credited with helping manage a $7.1 million budget. The prior time I was even considered for one was when I was up for Junior Sailor of the Year at my first command in Japan. But that's what it's supposed to be like. Every military individual medal for professional achievement is higher than any civil honor- including a President Medal of Freedom. Also, These things are technically given in theory on behalf of the secretary of the respective service. This is why even Achievement awards should not be given out like candy. That's why there's letters and certificates of appreciation and accommodation. And I have a bunch of those.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 10:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 10:53:31 -0400

I've seen this first hand, my first duty station out of infantry and jump school was in Panama, while there I received 2 ARCOM's. When I PCS'd to Fort Bragg our first class A inspection the 1SG asked to see my 201 file because E-4's didnt get ARCOM'S in Division. Went to S-1 and pulled the paperwork for him. The entire time I was with Division I received one AAM as a PCS award.

So to answer your question, some units submit awards based of accomplishments and some submit based off of rank.

Response by Lt Col Jim Bemis made Jul 28 at 2018 11:51 AM

Lt Col Jim Bemis — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 11:51:29 -0400

I agree with both MSGT Minor and CPT Durish. When I was a young officer, I was required to put myself in for an award AND my boss as well, even though he had absolutely nothing to do with my personal achievement. My service, while believed to be a bit more liberal in the dcorations, apparently takes a back seat to the Army when it comes to Bronze Stars, even for meritorious performance (vice valor). I also had an award downgraded because I was a junior officer at the time, and my overarching superior did not believe in junior officers getting that award. Understand, like the MSGT, I am retired, and I could care less about any of what happened to me, but I believe that a lot of what happened is endemic to the military.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 1:45 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 01:45:10 -0400

It really comes down to the task of writing the award. And then submitting the award. It’s that simple. I took command of a unit and the biggest initial complaint was we never get awards because they get denied. I told them I wanted all the denied awards. The reality was the awards were never written. Over the next two days they wrote and submitted awards. All awards were submitted and all the ones submitted were received. That is the most basic issue. The next issue is leaders advocating for their soldiers. Make sure the senior leaders know their Soldiers and their accomplishments. This is doing storyboards and weekly roll ups. Again simple over looked tasks. Giving Soldiers positive counseling statements that document accomplishments. Roll ups, storyboards, and positive counselings provide documentation of the accomplishments but also ensure people outside of the platoon or company are aware. And finally, well written awards and evaluations that accurately represent the Soldier and their accomplishments. The awards should not simply be a form letter with the same accomplishments and only the name changes. As a commander I believed every soldier should receive an impact award and a PCS award. And an end of tour award for deployments. Level of awards becomes another discussion but it should reflect the accomplishments. If you’re not doing the above correctly, it is hard to get the higher level awards. The award shouldn’t be the first time the appropriate approval authority is hearing about the event or the Soldier.

Response by 1stSgt Jeff Blovat made Aug 13 at 2018 9:53 AM

1stSgt Jeff Blovat — Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:53:40 -0400

In my 24.7 years of service, I found that nothing is better than experience. With that comes confidence. Finding a good senior advisor or someone who truly “gets it” helps.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Aug 19 at 2018 6:07 PM

SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 18:07:03 -0400

ANYONE can submit an award. Less often do enlisted submit. This ensures other enlisted do not receive an award. So, if you feel you did not get the award you deserved, ask yourself, how many awards have you submitted for others? Are you part of the problem?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2018 9:18 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Aug 2018 21:18:17 -0400

"It seems to you" because you are unfamiliar with the awards regulation. Officers have legal responsibilities that enlisted do not have. Therefore their scopes of duty and responsibilities rate higher which is one of the 5 components of evaluation for an award.

Response by SSG Patrick Sloan made Aug 27 at 2018 8:43 AM

SSG Patrick Sloan — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 08:43:36 -0400

Cronyism and taking care of O Elites over the EM's.
After returning from DS / DS, our BN O"s all got BSM's. Not a single EM was awarded much of anything. I can't speak for the other companies but our EM's got nada. 8 months of very hard living, very first units on the ground with the 82nd, all the things we did and and no EM's were awarded anything? And the O's all got BSM's? Some one said more responsibility for the O's. Maybe but that still doesn't wash. Not one O did I ever see hump the M60 mile after mile in soft sand or the mortar system and never fall out; that's not worthy of recognition? But an O gets an attaboy because they didn't get us lost? Having put my time in and watched the Army inside and out, its cronyism. Pure and simple.

Response by CW3 Stephen Mills made Aug 30 at 2018 4:54 PM

CW3 Stephen Mills — Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:54:17 -0400

The idea anybody can put anybody in for an award is a figment of the regulations fantasy. It will just keep getting kicked back again and again until you get tired of changing commas and periods back and forth and finally just give up.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2018 11:19 AM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Sep 2018 11:19:10 -0400

You’re joking right?

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Sep 4 at 2018 11:17 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Tue, 04 Sep 2018 23:17:51 -0400

Officers need awards to get promoted.

Response by 1SG John Cummings made Sep 5 at 2018 9:09 PM

1SG John Cummings — Wed, 05 Sep 2018 21:09:25 -0400

The reason is because there are two types of awards. One for achievement one for service. Most awards are awarded for service ie deployments. Deployment awards are based off of level of responsibility. Does an e-4 have the same level of responsibility as an o-2, no. And he never will. Can the e-4 earn a higher award for an heroic action? Hell to the yes!

Response by PFC Stephen Trynosky made Sep 14 at 2018 9:46 AM

PFC Stephen Trynosky — Fri, 14 Sep 2018 09:46:53 -0400

In my very biased opinion, using a very unscientific poll, (my experience in the US Army, exclusively CONUS 1969-70), I know the reason. It is referred to as "ticket punching". I guess over that time I had dealings with 20 or so company grade officers. Two I would have followed into hell. The others, not so much. As a matter of fact I thought half of them would probably have gotten me killed, stupidly, in a combat situation. Since that time I have raised three young men, all who have become officers and all of whom demonstrate a deep loyalty to their troops, sailors and airmen. This has carried over into their civilian lives. I see a lot more good than bad these days but there still is a disconnect between officers and Enlisted in many areas where it should not exist.

Response by SGT Jim Giffin made Sep 25 at 2018 11:38 AM

SGT Jim Giffin — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 11:38:06 -0400

Officers need their ego stroked.

Response by SSgt Robert Bell made Sep 27 at 2018 3:42 PM

SSgt Robert Bell — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 15:42:45 -0400

Back when I was active I was sent for detailed training on my SC along with my squad. There were no officers there other than the Sgt training us. When I got to Nam none of the officers were trained in my SC (Munitions) but the Senior NCO’s we’re all retreads. The only AF officers getting awards were the pilots and as you should know why, they had to fly in the face of danger. But what is meant by Awards? Maybe now a days it something a lot different? Still awards may be an incentive to do things better so good luck with that!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2018 7:15 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:15:12 -0400

Honest-to-god half the time that I see this is due in large part to junior NCOs. I strive to make sure my "guys" get the recognition they deserve for outstanding accomplishment because I myself as a junior enlisted soldier felt a bit jilted seeing all these senior NCOs and officers getting awards for what I saw as simply doing the minimum required by their assignment to a particular task. Often junior enlisted soldiers are overlooks for awards because their junior Officers (the LTs and Captains) don't have enough interaction with them to SEE the accomplishments. This is coming from the Aviation world where we work with our Officers far more regularly than the ground-pounder tends to. As such I feel much of the "blame" (although that isn't a far word to use really) lies with the SGTs and CPLs who need to take the initiative and sit down to write that DA 638. It will often be the first that the Chain of Command hears about a soldier going above and beyond in their tasks.

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2018 8:35 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Oct 2018 08:35:38 -0400

Having spent time on both sides of the fence (E and O), my feeling is that senior NCOs (the ones who write the award up) feel that the person is "doing their job", whereas the officer sees the recognition as a way to acknowledge the effort put in by the person. Case in point, I received no individual awards when I was an E, despite the fact that I was regularly selected for high visibility jobs and deployed many, many times a day pulled countless days on SAC nuclear alert. As an O, I responded with another medic to an on-base accident that took the life of a young troop. We initiated efforts to revive and stabilize the guy, ran the "code" until the clinic medical teal arrived, countinued to care for him until he was medevaced by help to the regional hospital where he died. Wing Commander was there as we tried to revive him and on the way out, asked that the first responders be recognized with AF Achievement Medal. Found out later that the "Awards and Dec's" SNCO shot it down because "they we're just doing their jobs".

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2018 3:39 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Oct 2018 03:39:22 -0400

From my experience as USAR Company Commander, essentially soldiers are flagged for APFT/HW (awards for valor are exempt from flag disqualification). I quickly learned to ask that question to S1 before I went and wasted my time with a 638. I bend over backwards with 638's on my computer ready to fill in names with general accomplishments already drafted (anticipating which of my superstars will get recommended). 1-2 soldiers get an ARCOM per AT exercise, 3-4 get AAM's. AGR's get MSM's with properly articulated accomplishments at end of tour. Then those numbers come crashing down when checked if the soldiers are flagged.

Next, as prior enlisted MI, and current officer Quartermaster my observation is MI is much more liberal with awards relative to Logistics (regardless of rank). My MI enlisted (intel analyst) deployment showed awards were handed out by rank. From LOM’s down to ARCOMS (for the lowest ranks). AAM’s were given as an F-U for those who totally sucked.

What I take going forward now as the author of these awards is regardless of perception of awards it all comes down to circumstances and chain of command. During a deployment with a MI mission set willingness to sign off on awards is very high (you don’t even have to be MI, being a reservist attached to an SF mission set helps just as much, and logistics find themselves everywhere). So, milk it while you can if in such a situation. While in garrison it’s a lot harder, and I have to write very strong accomplishments for just a simple AAM. While at an Annual Training Exercise under a separate command it is often expressed they want to hand out ARCOMs and AAMs for the exercise and will use their O5 and O6 powers to grant them (meaning I get to sneak awards through outside of my garrison chain of command). Leaders need to POUNCE on those opportunities.

Response by SPC Mike Davis made Oct 8 at 2018 7:51 AM

SPC Mike Davis — Mon, 08 Oct 2018 07:51:12 -0400

In reality no one cares how many awards someone received. How many awards or ribbons did Pvt Joe Dokes receive in the revolutionary war? Nobody knows and nobody cares. How many ribbons or awards did snot nose 2nd Lt percful receive in the civil war? Nobody knows and nobody cares. If some officer is giving himself a lot of awards just remember no one knows and no one cares. In civilian life. If one does a good job one gets a increase in monies. That person can take those funds put them in the bank and make a better life for himself and his family. Cannot do that with worthless awards no one cares about. Just a thought on keeping one's priorities straight.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2018 4:08 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:08:23 -0400

Because officers are in charge so they rain awards down on each other. Every officer above LT would get a bronze star down range and now a MSM. It’s all about career progression for them, not for you

Response by LTC James McElreath made Oct 14 at 2018 4:30 PM

LTC James McElreath — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 16:30:44 -0400

SPC Cody V.
There is no reason why enlisted personnel do not receive as many awards. You would find though that the NCOIC just doesn't want to take the time to write his section up for a medal. It takes a lot of work to fill out the form, highlighting your accomplishments (humor), I think the biggest reason is many leaders do not wish to take the time and others think that you are just doing your job.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Oct 14 at 2018 10:35 PM

MSG Frank Kapaun — Sun, 14 Oct 2018 22:35:09 -0400

My favorite awards story is when I saw an AGR 1LT on her first AGR tour throw a hissy fit because she got an ARCOM instead of an MSM at the end of her tour.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Oct 15 at 2018 2:12 PM

SSG Jess Peters — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 14:12:09 -0400

Because they are officers.

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Oct 19 at 2018 9:39 PM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Fri, 19 Oct 2018 21:39:20 -0400

I made it a point to make not only mental notes but "notes" when ever I saw anyone do an outstanding job. Also those who did their job on a consistent basis too. I did recognize that not many NCO's would take the time and write soldiers up for an award and officers as well...I think it was because of lack of motivation and or "oh someone else will do it". If you want high morale in your Unit and you truly believe in your soldiers and you know their doing a damn good job, then take that time to fill out the form and get them recognized. I saw a few officers write each other up and wondered why? I won't go any further .....

Response by CW3 Dan Mackey made Oct 21 at 2018 11:42 PM

CW3 Dan Mackey — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 23:42:33 -0400

LMAO they approve the awards

Response by SFC Ron Culver made Oct 22 at 2018 12:01 AM

SFC Ron Culver — Mon, 22 Oct 2018 00:01:23 -0400

The RLOs take of their own. Or, it is known as a class system. There are Officers, then there are Enlisted Swine. Proud to say I was an enlisted swine.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 3:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 15:38:06 -0400

You know anyone can put a Soldier in for an award. That means a PLT SGT, another leader, or other Soldiers from a different command. Leaders are not doing their part in supporting Soldiers. The Army somewhere lost it's way.

Response by CPT Jim Kotva made Oct 28 at 2018 7:52 AM

CPT Jim Kotva — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 07:52:32 -0400

Officers are the top management they are at the top of the hill making decisions effecting everyone under them. I myself received more awards enlisted than I did as an officer

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Nov 2 at 2018 1:57 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Fri, 02 Nov 2018 13:57:45 -0400

When I was in the Navy River Patrol in Vietnam, an investigation was done when an enlisted man was put in for an award. Officers on the other hand just put themselves in for awards and received them. In all fairness most of the Naval Officers I met deserved far more awards than they received. However, on occasion, you would get liers who would put themselves in for awards for someone else's actions. One lieutenant put himself in for a purple heart, claiming he had a broken ear drum from guns going off. The corpsman didn't verify he was injured and he received his purple heart. It could have had a lot to do with the face his father was the Admiral in charge of Subic Bay Naval Base. It was just the way things were back then.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Nov 11 at 2018 7:31 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 19:31:36 -0500

I can never begin to think I have the answer to this, but in my limited experience the service you belong to has a lot to do with this. When I was at HQUSCENTCOM I'd put individuals up for awards and the Marines would routinely deny or downgrade them while the other services would approve, or at least approve a downgraded version, of what was submitted. I agree with comments that more senior individuals realize the significance of awards and that younger leaders most probably have not learned the techniques of writing a nomination that will check all the boxes.

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 11 at 2018 7:47 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 19:47:01 -0500

I talked to a World War 2 Veteran and while we talked someone asked him about what medals he got from landing on D day! He said the only thing he got that mentioned anything was his honorable discharge! Don't worry about medals, ribbons and awards do a great job and you'll know!

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Nov 12 at 2018 6:33 AM

MSG Greg Kelly — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:33:39 -0500

I will make a long story short I watched 26 BSM's get handed out on my 1st tour all but one went to a Fobbit. The one was my NCOIC we conducted many missions. My medic saved 4 from a Hummer hit with IED on fire while taking fire. CO refused to give him BSM w/ V claimed they could only issue so many BSM's in unit. I have lost all respect for awards and saw some things that made me want to vomit from Officers. I take no one on face value anymore and trust nothing any human tells me.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 20 at 2018 4:38 PM

1SG James Kelly — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 16:38:42 -0500

They need them?

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 22 at 2018 12:36 PM

1SG James Kelly — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 12:36:38 -0500

Who cares?
The little bits of colored ribbon don't mean shit.
What your people think of you means a lot.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2018 8:44 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 08:44:15 -0500

I think really it comes down to a lack of understanding about the awards system. Any soldier can recommend a soldier for an award (army statement, but I assume the same in other services), regardless of rank. For some reason, award writing is not developed in the lower ranks. The most important aspect of an award recommendation is first hand knowledge of the action required to earn the award and at what degree of merit equates to the specific award recommendation requirements. Officers understand this and submit awards for peers as a matter of course. BTW: An award does not need to be shiny medal or pretty ribbon on your chest ... Certificates of Achievement or Appreciation can be just as meaningful when written and presented correctly. I have a ton of each and they mean something to me, mainly because someone recognized something I did with thoughtfulness. MWR, Family Support Groups, Section Chiefs, and etc. I had the number of hours in additional volunteer service to have qualified for the MOVSM, which had not yet been invented! Anyway, do your best for personal satisfaction, for completing the mission with superior degree of effort, and your reward will be the feeling of accomplishment and the admiration of those who serve with you. Anyone who earned the Medal of Honor did not do their act with the thought of earning such an award. Be the service member that everyone enjoys serving with, for that is the greatest recognition of all ... A smile and a comment like 'I am so glad we serve together!' My opinion.

Response by MSG Steve Collier made Dec 6 at 2018 1:02 PM

MSG Steve Collier — Thu, 06 Dec 2018 13:02:17 -0500

Seems to me, as my National Guard was preparing to return home, a number of my unit members were nominated for Bronze Stars... there unit members whose service and risk deserved the BSM were quoted out of a truly deserved award. The reason? VII Corps (US) decided to limit awards by rank, category of service (we were "those national guard pukes") and MOS. It isn't a matter of having leaders who know the ropes of the awards ladder. Our SGM wrote most of the BSMs for soldiers whose service and other aspects were worthy of the various awards he wrote. All it takes is a fitting acknowledgement of an act to make soldiers want to be career minded, but when nothing nice rolls down to those on the line, it becomes difficult to keep a soldier motivated. No, before I'm accused, I'm not advocating "participation" decorations. A junior soldier who only hears bitching from the head shed is going to feel less inclined to go the extra mile.

Response by PO1 Mac MacIntyre made Dec 13 at 2018 6:17 AM

PO1 Mac MacIntyre — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 06:17:56 -0500

Because they are officers and write their own fitness reports as well.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2018 8:20 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Dec 2018 20:20:59 -0500

As the battalion adjutant, I personally review all awards that are submitted in the battalion. Everything is a process, and awards have restrictions on them. Even if you do something really well, the command may hold off on recommending an award in order to roll it in to an award later. The problem comes when Plt Cmdrs and OICs change hands and there’s no letters of continuity. On another token, many people are just doing their job and don’t rate their service achievement medal. Sometimes, an outstanding fitness report or higher promotions points are more appropriate. Not everyone should always be receiving awards.

Concerning the level of awards, scope of responsibility is the key factor. Your average E-5 and below will almost never rate an MSM or higher level award just due to the sheer fact that their impact just doesn’t measure up. I’m not applying this to valor awards but only to non-combat awards. I have, however, seen higher level life saving, non-combat awards be awarded and presented when it was justified.

Everything comes down to someone recommending an individual for an award and doing the appropriate write up. It also takes someone like myself to educate my fellow officers concerning the ins and outs of awards. I’d say my unit does a pretty good job.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Dec 16 at 2018 11:22 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Sun, 16 Dec 2018 23:22:37 -0500

Well that answer is simple they write there own awards
The ones I have seen with a lot of awards are the admin personal for the reason they know how to format them correctly
But to be honest I that has been the only thing in the military that irks me the most Promotions of Jr officers and awards they receive
My E-7 And E-8 was just handed to me literally on pass by in hallway

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2018 8:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:03:50 -0500

Great feeling when you (E4) have more awards than your CAPT or when your the only person under E9 or MAJ in your unit with an MSM. People get so jealous over awards. Yes officers and senior NCOs get higher awards for the same actions. Those that don’t believe that are naive.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2018 8:12 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Dec 2018 20:12:50 -0500

If I have to be just, I think with rank comes some responsibility to include the leadership of the officer over the enlisted with whom they work on such project and in other to preserve that integrity, it would make sense to award the person with leadership over the other, a higher award. Well, while the above makes sense, I like to encourage my soldiers so it would better pay off awarding the junior soldier at one event and focus on awarding senior soldiers at a different event in this way, such highlight is prevented or diminished.

Response by SPC Steven Caliendo made Jan 6 at 2019 7:22 AM

SPC Steven Caliendo — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 07:22:21 -0500

Here's a situation that happened to me. Our UH -1 crew many years ago in Vietnam happened to hear a call for an emergency Med-evac and responded to the call. After picking up a Marine Major, we were Army, we found out that one of his units were in heavy contact with the enemy and their LT was severely wounded and needed to be airlifted out of a hot LZ and we were also to insert this Major into the battle. We accomplished our mission thinking nothing about being awarded for doing our job. A few months later we stood in formation and found out the Major put our crew in for awards. The Aircraft commander, a Warrant, received the DFC while the other three of us, which included an LT co-pilot, received the AM/V. Now, we were all on the same ship and it was a team effort to save this mans life, why weren't we all awarded the DFC? Unfortunately that's the way the military works, there's no fairness in awards when it come to officers and enlisted men, and at times some officers get screwed like our LT on our ship that day because he wasn't the aircraft commander.

Response by SSG George Duncan made Jan 7 at 2019 7:00 PM

SSG George Duncan — Mon, 07 Jan 2019 19:00:03 -0500

because they do the paper work

Response by SPC Adam Lincoln made Jan 9 at 2019 1:51 PM

SPC Adam Lincoln — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 13:51:11 -0500

The same reason your boss gets paid more. They have more reaponsibilites and it took them longer to get where they are. Méritoire citations are different and should be treated as such, but an O-3 is doing a lot more in a year deployment than the majority of enlisted, especially non-senior NCOs and should be recognized as such.

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Jan 11 at 2019 4:34 PM

PO1 Todd B. — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:34:06 -0500

What gets me is how often they get purple hearts for paper cuts. I have 5 service connected injuries, 3 of them not in declared wartime in the 80's/90's. Yet not a single PH for any of those three injuries, one even being an explosion/breach attempt at a secure facility... So yea, it's all about the politics even in the military.

Response by BG Donald Currier made Jan 11 at 2019 4:34 PM

BG Donald Currier — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 16:34:40 -0500

The correct answer to the question is one of scope of responsibility. While it is true that officers often neglect submitting their subordinates for a deserved award or that they sometimes do it incorrectly, the truth is that officers receive a higher award for the same thing because their scope of responsibility is greater. When I was an enlisted Soldier, it was pretty sore about the fact that I got a "Certificate of Achievement" for the same operation that my boss received an LOM for. I was the one who was directly exposed to danger and worked very long hours. His work hours never changed and he was never exposed to any physical danger. Looking back, I realize that he planned the operation and supervised its successful execution. The success of the operation had wide ranging consequences and impact. My impact was significant, but narrow. The impact of his actions was far greater. I'm not sure how "fair" that is, but it is what the Army Awards Regulation calls for.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 13 at 2019 5:20 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 05:20:21 -0500

i Understand when you see platoon leaders and commanders receive awards for essentially the weight of their responsibility despite their age and experience. However it is ridiculous watching a lieutenant receive an ARCOM for a dining out detail or for a week long field problem when it’s difficult to push an ARCOM for a young enlisted who completed a combat deployment. It does seem unfair at times but ultimately it’s officers who sign off on the awards and I hate to say it but sometimes they like to look out for their own. The best you can do is recommend your Soldiers whenever you see them fit so as not to continue the cycle and ensure your write ups are so good no Commander would even think about downgrading.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Jan 14 at 2019 9:25 AM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 09:25:38 -0500

I have many awards over my career. Of all the awards I have only two mean anything to me. Both are Navy/ Marine Corps Achievement medals. Those awards were written by officers that recognized my efforts to make the command better in one case and far more fiscally responsible in the other. Should everyone receive an award at every command? I don' think so. We don't see award worthy action out of everyone. Sometimes people just do their duty, do what is asked of them. It is the senior enlisted's responsibility to train the Junior officers. That was one of the things that can have bearing on what you see. If we dial up an award for every single person, at every command, for every billet, there would be little time left for actually completing the mission. Awards are not given lightly, and I would submit they should not be. It would devalue any awards given.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2019 1:21 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 13:21:29 -0500

We do get bent around the axel regarding awards. The dirty secret is they are a low cost (or no cost) human resource tool to improve employee performance. I can guarantee better or continued performance from someone I just gave an award to. They’re ultimately very subjective and awarded on the quick glance of the final approval authority. Most of the time it’s lazy “leaders”, but remember anyone can write a recommendation for an award, so in some sense, anyone can be to “blame”.

Response by MSG Daniel Head made Jan 15 at 2019 2:05 PM

MSG Daniel Head — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:05:05 -0500

Just because it is because they are smart enough to know that you have to write your own award and give it to your supervisor or a friend that is around him in the chain of command.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jan 15 at 2019 6:59 PM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 18:59:03 -0500

Did you slow down after getting the AAM? What have you done to achieve a higher award? It took me 9 years to get an award. One that shocked me, even thou I wasn't that deserving of it. I'll admit, my performance reports weren't "walk on water" spectacular. But I did go beyond the day to day things like showing up for duty on time, and kept my barracks room clean. I argued with the section chief (E9) when he was wrong about regs or policies. But I did show respect, courtesy and honor to all I came in contact with, no matter their rank.

Response by MSG Darren Gaddy made Jan 15 at 2019 8:11 PM

MSG Darren Gaddy — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 20:11:58 -0500

Retirement award was downgraded by General Officer because he told my LTC that I wasn’t a SGM or above and shouldn’t get the recommended award. The award was supported by accomplishments and substantiated by NCOER bullets. I was working at DIV level when submitted and holding the Opns Job along with standing in for the SGM position which was vacant pending someone being assigned. This wasn’t done with senior officers, MAJ and above on the same award list.

Response by PO1 Gerald Sutton made Jan 15 at 2019 9:18 PM

PO1 Gerald Sutton — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:18:35 -0500

They put each other in for awards. Unless you are involved with personal most even E-6 don't know where to find the paperwork to do one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 16 at 2019 3:38 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Jan 2019 03:38:36 -0500

2 comments into your question and no real answers. Yes they get awards equal to their “responsibilities” yet if you have a new fuck butter bar deployed getting babysat by an nco yet a junior enlisted or junior NCO is actually impacting more without the recognition(this happens regularly) then what’s the malfunction.....it’s called people being afraid to rock the boat and affect status quo

Response by Maj Jon Shebel made Jan 17 at 2019 5:29 PM

Maj Jon Shebel — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:29:13 -0500

As a Marine Captain in Viet Nam we wrote our enlisted Marines and Navy Corpsmen up to "a higher degree" than our Officers............but, in retrospect, we didn't write up enough of our people. As young Marines our philosophy was "this is our job"!!!! We did hear lots of stories about people being "written up at Happy Hour", but never about Marine units. Officers and Staff NCO's should receive training about rewards.

Response by TSgt Mike Rumage made Jan 17 at 2019 5:56 PM

TSgt Mike Rumage — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:56:27 -0500

As a TSgt, I was proud to write up deserving airmen. I pushed for the points too. Is the AF the only service to let NCO's write up their men?

Response by LTC David Howard made Jan 20 at 2019 8:49 PM

LTC David Howard — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:49:33 -0500

I was inactive duty from 1966 to 1990. As far as awards go, I see nothing has changed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2019 10:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 22:42:44 -0500

So first off regardless of my service or current status I am unable to give a comment a thumbs down! Apparently I'm not cool enoughin this ap! That in and of itself is BS on a platform like this! That being said I take major offense to CPT Jack Durish' comments. As the first line of defense we often hope and pray for a first line leader or (plt leader) that can think cognitively! Often times it isn't the case. For folks like me it truly depends on how well your LT (or CPT) understands what you do and appreciates the effort at the level deserving! Often times we carry the weight without recognition! THATS BEING AN NCO! Dont sell my officers short for my accomplishments! Allow me to have such officers that allow me to get the job done and they can take the glory if needed!
Ssg Lee

Response by SMSgt Greg Karrels made Jan 22 at 2019 8:10 PM

SMSgt Greg Karrels — Tue, 22 Jan 2019 20:10:47 -0500

We had two majors in Iraq that did nothing except hide for the most part. Never seen them during or after any attack. Never went outside the wire. Yet they wrote themselves up for Bronze stars. All my time in the service I can honestly say that these two guys are the most incompetent boobs I ever had to work under.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2019 12:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 12:08:11 -0500

Here's my take on this one. In my opinion, it boils down to the level of effect...... Should a SPC receive a Bronze Star for a deployment (vehicle operator)? His or her efforts typically have no effect above the squad or platoon level. Where as effect of a CPT, 1SG, or above can be seen and or felt at BN level and higher. The efforts are equally important, but effects have a greater influence on larger scale operations.

Response by PO3 Kevin DeLong made Feb 11 at 2019 12:42 AM

PO3 Kevin DeLong — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 00:42:19 -0500

Don't worry about awards. Metal pinned on your chest does not make you a hero. What you have inside makes you a hero.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2019 11:37 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 23:37:25 -0500

Its quite simple. Theres 2 kinds of awards out there.
1) This is the award for performing your job in a satisfactory to excellent fashion. The higher ranking person normally has more responsibility and this is viewed, correctly, as warranting higher recognition.
2) This is the type of award for service above your duty. Risking your life, saving someone, etc. This type of award knows no rank.

Response by LCpl D R made Feb 13 at 2019 3:52 AM

LCpl D R — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 03:52:49 -0500

It sounds like the Army is a fuck show. We never had this problem in the Corps. If you were suggested for an award it showed you rated and earned that award you received it no matter what your rank. Im so happy we aren't corrupt by politics and greed in the corps like the Army is

Response by Col Chris Ceplecha made Feb 13 at 2019 10:33 AM

Col Chris Ceplecha — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 10:33:58 -0500

Capt Durish's response pretty well hits the nail on the head. For there to be an award, the immediate supervision/leadership has to witness it, has to write it up, and submit it up the chain of command. Higher level awards it will normally go to the MAJCOM for review and approval. Since the unit commander will not witness all award worthy events, it is up to the immediate leadership to get the ball rolling. Since recognition is vital for unit morale, the leadership of an organization however needs to set the proper tone; needs to make recognition a priority for individuals to receive their just due. Good commanders make this a priority. Sadly recognition falls through the cracks many times.

Response by SSG Anthony Bradford made Feb 13 at 2019 10:22 PM

SSG Anthony Bradford — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 22:22:57 -0500

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 14 at 2019 3:21 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 15:21:32 -0500

So, as an enlisted navy member who has spent over half of my career working around flag and senior officers. I have seen great enlisted leaders and poor officers; for that matter great officers and poor senior enlisted leaders as well. I can tell you that the average awarded recognition for officers is multiple levels of that given to enlisted. An extremely hard charging E6 who takes on multiple command leadership role and makes a serious difference, may be lucky enough to receive a Navy COM, but give a COM to a LT(O-3) who at best was barely able to stand a watch without relying on others... And you can see the grimace on their face while accepting it.

I personally innovated, designed, and built a project as a seaman and 3ed class that an unscrupulous LPO decided to claim to have "supported" the project and would have received a COM for it. The only reason that individual did not receive the COM was because the admin officer was aware of the project and knew exactly what "support" that LPO had actually contributed due to the fact I had worked directly with the admin officer throughout the design process. He denied the award. Later I received a NAM as an EOT, and that project was only one small part of my overall contribution.

Most sailors even if they know how to write up a 1650, don't often put themselves up for awards because, honestly, either they don't feel like they did enough or they expect that if they deserve recognition, their leader will do it. And this applies to each level up.

So yes, rank and visibility plays a major roll in the kind of awards someone usually receives. I am proud of the work I do and my goals are never centered around recognition, however with the way the military is structured, recognition is required to advance.

I wish I had an answer to fix the system, a suggestion even. But in the long run, is it the system or the mindset and priorities of the leadership that is really at fault?

Response by MSgt Edward Lippiett made Feb 14 at 2019 7:36 PM

MSgt Edward Lippiett — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 19:36:32 -0500

because they write them

Response by MAJ Peter Fraser made Feb 16 at 2019 10:18 PM

MAJ Peter Fraser — Sat, 16 Feb 2019 22:18:28 -0500

My answer is based on a what I experienced in combat in Vietnam. A Platoon Leader, no name as he was KIA later, was given an impact award of a Silver Star because his platoon captured an NVA Hospital unit trying to evade capture. He was sleeping at the time. I was Sr. Aideman and had to cross several hundred meters of open field to care for multiple wounded. The CO put me in for a Silver Star but when told only one was being given our unit he gave it to the LT. He told me it was because the award would have an impact on his career.

Response by MAJ Christopher Thompson made Feb 17 at 2019 12:43 AM

MAJ Christopher Thompson — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 00:43:32 -0500

Read the last statement in my response, if nothing else...

I recommended quite a few impact awards (AAM, ARCOM, JCOM, MSM) during my full career to enlisted soldiers, including other services such as the US Navy on joint operations. This included a few combat BSM/v when the time came. Plenty of awards for combat tours and such as well. It really comes down to the diligence and the quality of the officers in the command. If a service member deserves the award and it is very well written, the award was often approved, although I did have a few downgrades of BSM/v to ARCOM/v for those less than E-5. As a "mustang" NCO it took me a couple years to get anything as enlisted first (first AAM as an E-4), and then an equal amount of time before I saw any awards as a 2LT (another AAM, but I don't remember which one) during the peace between the First Gulf War and the Second Gulf War. I remember one specific combat tour in Afghanistan where my Brigade Commander wanted to award a Legion of Merit (LoM) for my meritorious achievement providing life support, construction, survivability across the region for not only his BDE, but coalition forces and contractors, which no matter how hard it was attempted was never going to be approved because of the requirements that LoM were approved at the four star command level at the time and I was an O-4. It was downgraded to a BSM, and I just went along my next overseas assignment. Today, the approval authority was reduced one grade to O-9 (3 star, Army CORPS level), which is still extremely high.

What people need to recognize it is not just responsibility, achievement, and rank of the individual, BUT THE APPROVAL AUTHORITY which sets the precedence for ALL military decorations. It is not an "officer thing" it is more a "culture thing" which goes along with all sorts of unwritten rules.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Feb 17 at 2019 9:48 AM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 09:48:15 -0500

While I agree that it is a valid complaint that officers get higher awards for the same actions that an enlisted performs, I also noticed during my time in service that enlisted get medals for things that an officer is expected to do on a daily basis. I speak from the experience of having been both enlisted and officer. I had to put up with more insults as an enlisted but I worked harder, and was expected to work harder, as an officer. I finished my career as an 0-4 in an 0-5 department head billet in charge of 180 people. That convinced me that I didn't want to go any farther, as I was putting in 15 hour days, 6 to 7 days a week. And no, I didn't even get a medal for that period of my service!

Response by PO2 Ron Burling made Feb 17 at 2019 3:39 PM

PO2 Ron Burling — Sun, 17 Feb 2019 15:39:49 -0500

I don't know about the Marines, Army, or Air Force, but back in Vietnam times, Naval Officers were allowed to put themselves in for awards. That's why when John Kerry was running for POTUS there were many folks, including his former CO, who wanted to see his original award citations. I seem to recall they didn't get them.

Response by SSgt Clyde Ellis made Feb 19 at 2019 1:20 AM

SSgt Clyde Ellis — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:20:58 -0500

I've heard that if an officer and an enlisted person were to be standing side by side in a situation that justified an award, the officer would get one grade higher award than the enlisted person for doing exactly the same thing at the same moment. Any thoughts?

Response by CW3 John Himes made Feb 21 at 2019 10:23 PM

CW3 John Himes — Thu, 21 Feb 2019 22:23:01 -0500

All too often the first line leaders is to lazy to write up a recommendation. I constantly would tell my NCO’s to get me recommendations to forward. I was proud to recommend good NCO’s for awards. Insuring you Tripp’s receive awards they deserve is part of being a good leaders.

Response by TSgt Mario Guajardo made Mar 10 at 2019 1:25 AM

TSgt Mario Guajardo — Sun, 10 Mar 2019 01:25:08 -0500

A Lt I worked with received an award for his actions preceding Vigilant Warrior in 1995. The reality: I was on duty when intelligence events warranted greater attention. I was an E-6 with experience in theater. I briefed the Lt when he arrived for shift change, he looked like a deer in the headlights. He asked me "What do I do?" So I explained he should contact the IN at home station and brief him on the current situation. At the award ceremony he made no mention of me and avoided looking at me. I worked with some damn fine officers. he wasn't one of them.

Response by CPT David Miller made Mar 17 at 2019 9:09 PM

CPT David Miller — Sun, 17 Mar 2019 21:09:35 -0400

Many of you might not know that the original DA Form 638 was a painfully long and slow process to initiate an award recommendation, even for an Army Achievement Medal (IIRC, that medal came out in 1981). In addition to the name of the intended recipient and the proposed citation for the award certificate, it was accompanied by a two-page double-spaced justification for the award. After the award was approved, the soldier would receive the decoration set, the citation certificate and a set of the permanent orders announcing the award. In many cases, several orders were grouped together on the same sheet, so that on the same date, a number of individuals' awards would be printed on the same paper. In 1990, DA Form 638-1 was created to streamline the process for peacetime awards of the Army Achievement Medal, Army Commendation Medal and the Meritorious Service Medal. It could be filled by hand in ink, use bullet justification sentences and was restricted to five lines of laudatory text for the award certificate. Once signed by the approving authority, the S-1/G-1 assigned a permanent award number and forwarded copies to the relevant agencies. One copy was supplied to the decorated soldier for his/her safekeeping. Apparently, the "dash-one" superceded the old DA Form 638 in 2006. Now the same form is used to process both peacetime and wartime recommendations. Wartime medals for valor still require an enclosed narrative justification, witness statements and operational maps describing the battle conditions that led to the award recommendation.
In my time, I have seen the AAM used mainly to recognize junior enlisted soldiers, the ARCOM awarded to non-commissioned officers and the MSM to retiring senior NCOs and Officers. I was tasked to prepare a Legion of Merit for a retiring sergeant-major, but this was later approved as an MSM. In my time, a battalion commander could earn "brownie points" by awarding a goodly number of AAMs for his personnel. DA Form 638-1 made it very easy to do. When I was a battalion operations officer in a recruiting battalion, we made our quarterly mission one year (1991?). The Battalion Commander signed off on AAMs for all of the NCOs in the headquarters: operations sergeants, recruiter trainers, guidance counselors and support personnel. Officers were supposed to be above such inducements.

Response by William Davis made Mar 22 at 2019 8:29 PM

William Davis — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 20:29:42 -0400

On of my good friends I have known for well over thirty years joined the military after college and I went into finance and insurance (about 1993).... When I first saw him after his basic stint, then his AIT he told me about how much "salad" the military threw around now compared to when our fathers and grandfathers were active duty (Both Full Birds, except his father was a Navy guy....Jk of course). He can't believe how many medals are handed out now and one of the things that bothered him years ago was when two individuals in 2012 were awarded Bronze Stars to two finance NCOICs in medical units........ I have no dog in the fight, but I can imagine what Colonel Lyle would be saying about it.... When you had soldiers all over Europe fighting a true "World War" and just trying to survive the day, a freaking colorful piece of ribbon on your damned uniform means horse shit. He also always despised the "flag officers" who turned into politicians over soldiers.......

Response by SPC Timothy Coleman made Mar 28 at 2019 6:09 AM

SPC Timothy Coleman — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 06:09:48 -0400

When you have a cohort of peers with authority, to pat each other on the back, career advancement and promotion is assured.

Response by WO1 Roman Smith made Apr 6 at 2019 10:00 AM

WO1 Roman Smith — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 10:00:41 -0400

My stepfather fought in Europe during WWII. He was small, Jewish and a private. Came home with 2 Purple Hearts, Bronze Star and the Silver Star. Maybe he was the exception to the rule. But, after talking to him about them he said; “I would have preferred not to have been in the situation that got me those metals.”

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Apr 7 at 2019 9:00 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 21:00:23 -0400

Why do you care?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2019 10:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 10:20:18 -0400

Sad but true that those who are outside the wire in the blood and mud get shit on but those sitting in the TOC bitching about running our of cream for their coffee get medals.

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Apr 22 at 2019 12:43 AM

PO2 Michael Henry — Mon, 22 Apr 2019 00:43:20 -0400

I have seen awards given for complete BS but I on multiple occasions risked life and limb to forgo the safety protocols in order to bring up a transmitter that went down and not even a thank you. Why did I forgo them? Well, our safety gear minus the stuff needed to attach ourselves to the vertical ladder was readily available. The "ball busters" were owned by another division and their spaces were locked. We didn't know where they were at, an entire weapon system is not operational and half of an aircraft carrier is exposed. "F' IT!" I skipped the gear which wouldn't have done any good to keep me from falling, I avoided the flight deck operation personnel (the ones with IQs of rocks), bypassed the rovers, climbed the ladder, cleared the issue and restarted it, then came back down without getting caught. Either I do things by the book and risk an O-6 or O-7 finding out or get the job done. It does bother me that I did this multiple times and not a single mention, but it doesn't matter on the outside. It doesn't get me a better job or a better wage.

As for the comment about the flight deck personnel, we did explain to them (many, many, MANY times) at the lowest level possible and we still got a deer in the headlights look. We needed their permission to access our equipment. Same people we also told to stop dumping oil and JP5 on our sponsons which had missile launchers, which contained missiles ready to fire, but they didn't do it.

Officers will gladly pin medals on each other for the stupidest things, but enlisted have to go over the top for something like a commendation or good conduct medal. Everyone knows it's the noncoms that get things done, not the officers.

Response by SGT Jim Wiseman made Apr 24 at 2019 12:24 AM

SGT Jim Wiseman — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 00:24:15 -0400

Yeah, I found out that after being deployed and then subsequently injured in Afghanistan that while I was awarded a Purple Heart, it's as much as I was expecting for what happened. I already had my CIB, so I wouldn't have expected anything else and still don't. I received the Enemy Marksmanship Award for having taken an injury but not having been able to return fire. But upon finding out in my next unit that an officer had a Bronze Star as his tour award vs. what most enlisted got which was an AAM for just doing his job... well, I just lost a little faith in the system since it was also considered normal for an E-7 or above. There's a lot of guys out there doing substandard jobs in the military, but unless they do screw-ups of epic proportions, they'll get what's "expected of their rank."

Response by SFC Ludovico L. Yanto Sr. made Apr 24 at 2019 3:45 PM

SFC Ludovico L. Yanto Sr. — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 15:45:08 -0400

I was a Special Forces in Vietnam in 1968-1970 and retired from the US Army 30 years ago. I saw this coming when was still in in the 70's that modern army will. It's not what you deserved, it's who kiss ass more specially the officers. I never did like officers during my 20 years but they listened to us NCO's. The military nowadays are politics even the generals in Pentagon can't even make a decisive decisions they always hesitate.

Response by MAJ Tom Kinton made May 2 at 2019 1:43 AM

MAJ Tom Kinton — Thu, 02 May 2019 01:43:35 -0400

It's self-serving and as a reserve officer (deployed three times) I saw it and it looked like quota-by-rank to me. Fact: I declined two BSMs and had my CDR award them to my NCOs. Seemed a lot like a checklist thing for the 1-shop to 'get through' prior to redeployment.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2019 8:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 May 2019 20:25:50 -0400

As a Retired Air Force MSGT, I couldn’t agree with this comment more. His remarks about the higher the rank attaches more metals, than the lower tankers. In the movie “We Were Once Soldiers”, Mel Gibson and Sam Elliot about Custer, he was a pussy. Now there is a medal winner.

Response by A1C Jim Mulhearn made May 23 at 2019 4:33 PM

A1C Jim Mulhearn — Thu, 23 May 2019 16:33:05 -0400

I may be an exception to that rule. I was Air Force, 3 yr, 6 mos, 5 days, last yr in Nam. I was a clerk(Personnel Specialist) in DaNang, Mar-Dec '66. I flew with the 311th Air Commando Sq as a non crew member volunteer Flare Kicker. By the end of my tour (I was discharged when I went home in Dec '66 as an E-3(A2C) I had been awarded the DFC, AM, AFCM, AFGCM, NDSM,VSM, VCR, AFOUA, SAEMR, Pres unit Citation, VN cross w/palm, VCM. All of these were awarded in the last year, all WHILE I WAS IN Nam. i LEFT AFTER 3 1/2 YRS, as an E-3. For me it was just a case of right time, right place. I was no one special, just ........

Response by LCDR Robert S. made May 25 at 2019 2:04 PM

LCDR Robert S. — Sat, 25 May 2019 14:04:19 -0400

There are a lot of reasons for it, some of them valid, some of them crap. My Senior Chief taught me a lot when I was a JO. A couple of the things he taught me have some significance regarding rewards.

The first, which came up when I had to write my fitness report input after being at the command for about 4 months and mentioned to him that I couldn't think of anything to put on it, was that he told me, "LT, you need to remember that *anything* we do [meaning himself and the rest of the guys who worked for me], you get to take credit for. If Ed does an an awesome job because you told him to do it, you get to take credit for it, because you told him to do it. If Ken does something awesome without you telling him to do it, you get to take credit for it, because you 'facilitated an environment which allowed PO Riley to take the initiative to do it." So when an officer gets an end of tour award, he's not only getting recognized for what he's done, he's getting recognized for everything his people did too. Which, of course, means that he has to be sure to recognize his people for the things they do, and put them in for awards.

The second is something he told me a couple weeks after I reported, after I had started to get a handle on everything we were supposed to be doing. He came in after a meeting one morning and I was helping one of my petty officers do an inventory of something. He told the petty officer to keep working, and asked me to come into the back office - which I thought was to tell me about the results of the meeting. He very respectfully and politely pointed out that it wasn't really my job to be doing the grunt work of counting up the number of X, Y, or Z (that wasn't controlled equipage, for which there needs to be an officer's signature on the bottom line) in order to figure out what we needed to order. He told me, "Sir, you're not enlisted any more. Your job is to be our outward face - look for and take on the jobs that are in our wheelhouse, stave off the bullshit that someone else should be doing, and make sure we're giving people what they need. Our petty officers can handle the grunt work, and if it's a slow day for you and you want to help out, that's fine from time to time. But you need to be out there, representing us to the rest of the command." And of course, as the outward face, whose work gets noticed by the CO and other senior leadership? That would be me. Which means that I need to be sure that I'm aware of the things that my people are doing that are award-worthy. For the first year of that tour, I had it easy, because my Senior Chief would draft awards and all I needed to do was check them for accuracy and typos, sign them, and pass them up the chain. After he transferred (early, because he got picked up for warrant officer), and the billet was gapped for more than a year, I had to be paying attention and looking for the work that my people were doing that merited awards. But if that outward facing officer falls down on that part of the job, he's going to get awards that his people don't, for the work they did.

As for the crap reasons, the biggest one is the idea that "The officers need it for promotion, and the enlisted don't."

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2019 6:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 May 2019 18:28:11 -0400

I speak from personal experience having worked and all echelons upto BDE and REGT level. I have served for 11 years and have 14 awards. All Arcoms or AAMs. I have seen a SGT squad leader be denied his BSM because he wasnt a SSG verbatim on returned 638. I have also seen myself included be Soldier of the Year and recieve Arcom where as the NCO got MSM. I have seen Staff officers get BSMs for serving on BN staff in AFG while that same SGT who led hundreds of patrols with countless victories got an Arcom. I have seen almost everything from again myself included recieve AAM for pcs because i was a SPC Team Leader yet my battle who just pinned E5 a month prior and had 9m less TL time got arcom bc he was a SGT. Oh and i pinned SGT 2 weeks after i PCSd. No the system is flawed but it starts at the recommender level. When i put anyone in for an award i fight to ensure its approved. If denied i go face to face with that person and ask why if its BS i call them on it. Endstate 9 out of 10 times its because we as leaders are lazy and wont fight for our troops. All the approving authority can do is tell me to piss off.

Response by CSM Tony Blair made May 29 at 2019 1:41 AM

CSM Tony Blair — Wed, 29 May 2019 01:41:12 -0400

Lol
This is for one of many reasons
Here’s a few.
1. Your NCOIC is not or has not done his job.
2. Maybe you have not done anything worth in the eyes of your command to merit a award.
3. Anyone can put you in for a award
But in the end the NCOIC failed
To do his/her got
To be fair in the recommendation for punishment and award
Right from the NCO creed .

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2019 3:01 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 03:01:19 -0400

This is a really dumb conversation. There is NO regulation preventing ANYONE from submitting awards for ANYBODY at ANYTIME. If you look down your formation and see your Soldiers don't have awards, you have you, and ONLY you to blame.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Jun 5 at 2019 7:40 PM

SGT Juan Robledo — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 19:40:32 -0400

If an enlisted gets an award great if not so be it just know that you did your very best, and that what matters, officers probably have to get a higher award possibly to save their careers or to advance them up the ladder, who knows for sure, maybe the guy who approves the awrf

Response by BG Jim Drago made Jun 5 at 2019 10:13 PM

BG Jim Drago — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 22:13:01 -0400

Not going to debate the current state of affairs reference awards, yes its inflated and shifted toward the higher ranking SM. What I would like to add is something I read in Band of Brothers, the only way that a member of the 101 (and Easy Co) could receive a BSM is to have made all the combat jumps and if any were missed it was due to being in the hospital from wounds. Trust me, when I read that, I wanted to use my BSM as a fishing lure

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Jun 13 at 2019 10:28 AM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 10:28:49 -0400

There were a few "wide-eyes" when I, as an E-7 got my MSM.

Response by SMSgt Willie Edney made Jun 13 at 2019 9:07 PM

SMSgt Willie Edney — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:07:44 -0400

You are so right

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2019 9:36 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:36:39 -0400

Results may vary.
In my experience, `many Officers, Sr NCOs, and Enlisted either didn't want to take the time or didn't know how to properly document the actions necessary to rate certain awards.

Response by PV2 Joseph Prudhomme made Jun 18 at 2019 6:42 PM

PV2 Joseph Prudhomme — Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:42:59 -0400

Is that an honest question?????

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 9:32 PM

CAPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:32:00 -0400

While I’m not sure you’re perspective is completely accurate, the only factor that comes to mind is “visibility.” Officers are generally more visible and generally have more responsibility than your average enlisted.

One aspect of awards are “unwritten” rules that prevent personnel from being recognized with an appropriate award. A few times, after reading either a DRAFT citation or the 1650, I would inquire as to why the award didn’t align with the write-up and the majority of the time the answer was that the awardee didn’t have the rank to receive that level of award.

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Jun 20 at 2019 11:30 AM

SFC Terry Bryant — Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:30:36 -0400

It is just the way things are. Officers in charge are normally going to get the credit for the things that get done with great success by the people who work under them. Even if it has nothing to do with his or her leadership. During one deployment Our team was 15 of the most successful teams because we had tons of experience and knew how to do our jobs with the utmost success. The OIC often took credit for our success which we cared little about. However she did make sure that individuals were awarded for their efforts and often times as a group. Most of my team were doing what we did and were successful because we enjoyed being successful not because we wanted any recognition for it. So if you are in the Military for the idea that you will be lavished with awards and recognition for your efforts, blood and sweat you are in the wrong line of work. It is just the way things are, always has been and always will be.

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Jun 23 at 2019 10:56 PM

LTC Gene Moser — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:56:48 -0400

Are you talking about a valor award or an achievement award? Be specific.

Response by TSgt Dale Ingle made Jun 29 at 2019 6:32 PM

TSgt Dale Ingle — Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:32:43 -0400

Officers put themselves in for awards, also helps with promotions. I was enlisted 17 years, never got a Commendation Medal, found out after later you have to put yourself in for the award. A good First Sargent would stay on top with an annual review, this is lacking in most reserve units.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Jun 30 at 2019 11:54 AM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 11:54:18 -0400

This issue exists in the Navy as well. In many instances during Vietnam ship commanding officers received awards for valor even though every member of the crew were there as well in the midst of things.
I submitted an award for an E5 who left the skin of the ship while were were under heavy fire off the coast of North Vietnam to reload the defensive chaff projector on his own accord after all rounds had been fired due to the enemy being locked on to us for an extended time. We were receiving close aboard air burst and water impacts.
He ended up with a Navy Achievement. Our CO was a great guy and a good leader but he got a lot higher award than anyone. But I know that is better than what many of you Marine and Army guys have seen when those who lead from the rear get recognized for the guts of others.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2019 3:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 15:40:17 -0400

Same thing with the badges and tabs. I saw an officer with airborne, air assault , EIB, Special Forces &, Ranger tab, Sapper tab and Jungle Expert on his BDU (back in my time). This guy was a fricking Rambo!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2019 1:22 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:22:42 -0400

As someone who’s written numerous awards, and who was prior enlisted and now an officer. There is an unwritten rule concerning position and how you affected the organization. If you were able to articulate how the enlisted Soldier impacted the unit with their performance the usually received the award recommended (emphasis on usually). If leadership is willing to fight for that Soldier they will receive that award. I have received higher awards than peers, and have also been subject to the unwritten rule. So I understand both sides of the argument.

Response by SSgt Jw Guest made Aug 5 at 2019 12:12 AM

SSgt Jw Guest — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 00:12:08 -0400

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, the Corps is seriously stingy on any type of recognition. I was in a unit that stood up a specialized section and I learned that as a young LCpl that awards are directly proportional to rank. As we all stood in formation to receive awards, it started with NavComs for the officers, NavAch for the SNCOs, Meritorious Masts for the NCOs, and letters of appreciation for the rest of us.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Aug 5 at 2019 3:50 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Mon, 05 Aug 2019 15:50:33 -0400

Not in my World. I received the Navy Achievement Medal in 1989, after being on active duty for nine years, because I transformed two low-visibility positions (2nd Marine Air Wing “Substance Abuse Program Director” and “Family Readiness Officer” into programs that the General Staff could be proud of.

I worked 60 to 80 hours per week. I worked with no less effort than two previous ground jobs: Legal Officer for H&MS-31, MAG-31 (1984-1985) and Air Officer/S-3A for 3rd Bn, 2nd Marines (1985-1986).

After 17-years the NAM was the only personal award that I was aware of.

Award inflation hit in the 21st Century...everyone became a Santa Claus.

I have made 11 recommendations for Enlisted Marines in my career.

Response by CPO John Moran made Aug 26 at 2019 12:21 AM

CPO John Moran — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 00:21:52 -0400

I am retired from the Navy. I was a Chief and I always made sure the junior enlisted that worked for me were awarded appropriately. I rarely received awards for my performance from the Officers I worked for.. It all depends on leadership.

Response by MAJ Mark Steskal made Aug 26 at 2019 11:24 AM

MAJ Mark Steskal — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:24:46 -0400

If you wanted that kind of parity, you should have joined the Marines. After three years commissioned, all I had was a pistol marksman badge and a rifle expert. My enlisted Marines generally had more salad on their blouses than I did.
I think though, that in the Army, the perception is that Officers need more so they can advance their careers. Since they order of things has Officers writing the nominations, well. Over time it has become the default. In the Marine Corps, it is expected that Officers have a higher standard and they are not recognized for simply doing their job, hence less relative uniform garnishment. Don't get me wrong. I have known Officers in both branches who have soared above the bar and merit the awards they have gotten.
In an equitable (fair) world, the ones with the most awards would be the ones who are most responsible for executing the mission. Officers plan and command, NCO's control, junior enlisted execute. You tell me who has the critical job.

Response by PO2 Ed Taylor made Aug 26 at 2019 1:14 PM

PO2 Ed Taylor — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 13:14:55 -0400

i SEEM TO RECALL THAT AN ENLISTED PERSON RECEIVES COMMENDATIONS ONLY FOR WHAT THEY PERSONALLY ACCOMPLISH. AN OFFICER RECEIVES COMMENDATIONS FOR WHAT EVER HAPPENS UNDER THEIR COMMAND ALSO FOR WHATEVER GOES WRONG. ET

Response by SGT Felicia King made Sep 3 at 2019 1:00 AM

SGT Felicia King — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 01:00:34 -0400

I received more awards than my husband, I believe it was because I stood out. He was an engineer in an engineer company. I was quartermaster in an engineer, military police and warehouse front office clerk.
His platoon was always the grunts that were tasked with everything because they were the most competent. All he wanted was the Combat Action Badge. But in the end the ones that received it were the ones that went out one time and just happened to get blown up. Whereas he was tasked almost daily performing patrols like the infantry and military police. General Schoomaker was the one that was handing out the coins also. And one of the guys was so nervous, as he marched he didn’t swing his arms and fumbled the coin and handshake.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2019 6:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 18:48:19 -0400

1 AAM in 8 years. In my opinion your chain of command either failed you or you didnt do anything to separate yourself and stand out. It could also be both. It took me 4 years to earn my first AFAM. 6 before I was awarded my first ARCOM and 17 years before I earned an MSM. Between year 6 and 19 now I have several additional AAMs and ARCOMs. It is the nature of the beast that your leader will receive the higher award. More rests on them. If the mission fails they are the ones that are sacked. Good leaders will share that award with their team with the appropriate level of award for their support.
MSM.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Sep 14 at 2019 12:06 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 00:06:07 -0400

Not judging you, but 1 AAM awarded in 8 years doesn't seem correct? Is it you or your units lack of achievement or unit chain of command leadership...again, not judging.
I have seen my share of officers receiving awards that in my opinion were paper awards. I have also seen some NCOs get bronze stars for driving the Colonel around...
Bit of advice to you, work hard. Attend military schools that compliment your MOS. Control your work and teamwork values. Attend EO school, master fitness school etc...control your destiny at a high level....you'll start seeing a few ARCOMs rather than AAMs...good luck young Soldier....hooah !!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2019 5:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 05:52:13 -0400

Officers take care of officers. They don’t care about enlisted or the NCO when it comes to recognition. They are the endorsers and approves. As a NCO, we are the backbone of the Army, all the military for that fact. I’m proud of my military career and I don’t need some officers praise or signature on a document to say I did a good job, I know I did a outstanding job and have those memories that no officer can approve or deny.

Response by SGT Ronald Audas made Sep 23 at 2019 8:31 PM

SGT Ronald Audas — Mon, 23 Sep 2019 20:31:50 -0400

Never thought much about it. I was in for a two year hitch.Everything I earned was supposed to follow me to my next duty station.51 years later,I'm still waiting.lol The big break in rank is at E 6 and 1 st Lieutenant . At that stage,you normally make a career out of the service. In my limited experience,your career depends on your leaders.During the Vietnam era,rank was made fast. Most times from need more than experience. If this is your chosen profession,l would expect you to earn as many awards as possible,but to not forget the men and women that pushed from behind.Strayed a bit,but saw this too many times.

Response by SrA Joseph Bunton made Sep 25 at 2019 1:18 AM

SrA Joseph Bunton — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 01:18:03 -0400

Was always pretty well established during my time that you take any awards officers have with a heavvvyyyyy grain of salt. But you damn well know any and all awards, if any, achieved be enlisted were well and/or hard earned.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2019 9:28 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 21:28:07 -0400

There is policy or SOP and there is reality. Reality is this falls squarely on the Chain of Command and how they view what is worthy of an award AND the Commander's personal bias. Just for an example, If a Medic saves a life of another Soldier...What do believe they should recieve for that? One Commander says "He was just doing his job"...another Commander says " He is the best Medic I have ever worked with and he saved my Soldiers, thats being "Army Strong" I am going to write him up for a Soldier's Medal. I have seen it both ways...Remember for the Officer's too, when a PLT LDRs platoon does a miraculous feat like Destroying a PLT of Tanks...it is a direct reflection of his leadership, he/she may or may not have deserved the recognition but b/c his PLT accomplished the mission he/she hopefully is awarded appropriately...when your Soldiers' do well, the Leader does well...same as to when they do bad...when I was in Command I spent more time at JAG for 2% of those that were screwing up, then writting awards for the 98% of those that deserved them, I like many Commander's rely on their PLTs and Senior NCOs perspective...If they feel they are worthy of recognition I almost always approved them. I had over 432 personnel in my Company, that worked different shifts, weekends, holidays it was almost impossible to see everyone and directly observe performance. IMHO

Response by 1LT Mike Thompson made Sep 25 at 2019 9:53 PM

1LT Mike Thompson — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 21:53:23 -0400

Part of the issue is blanket awards too. Conduct a long tour mission - everybody gets an ARCOM. Seems the easy answer but it’s silly. Manned the mailroom ad a clerk with no particular responsibility but did your job effectively austere conditions, sounds like a decent AAM or at least a COA. Supervise that mailroom and interpret/implement regulatory guidance resulting in successful OIP review, that’s a solid AAM, maybe an ARCOM. Problem is everyone thinks they accomplished some heroics. Two years as a DS I did my job well. Spent most of my time as a senior drill in charge of a platoon. Ran more than one cycle solo or with minimal assistance. Also developed and ran the stats on an ACFT pilot. Also revamped the operations process as the senior DS for the company. Also mentored an entire company of incoming SDSs. The list goes on. Solid ARCOM. Not really a problem. Frustration comes along when you realize that the shmuck who barely showed up got the same award. My answer. Focus on the 638 and move on. Also make sure your Eval reflects the nature of what you did.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2019 11:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:20:06 -0400

That’s because most NCOs are lazy or they don’t know how to write an award. Anyone can write an award for someone. Also, if both you and an officer are doing the same job, there is something very wrong with that picture!!!

Response by TSgt Mario Guajardo made Sep 26 at 2019 3:19 AM

TSgt Mario Guajardo — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 03:19:37 -0400

As an enlisted, experienced and reliable J2 I realized I was being deployed with inexperienced LTs And Captains. On one occasion intelligence reports suggested theater opposing force troop movements could be preparation for an offensive. When the LT came on shift I briefed him on current intelligence. He became very nervous and asked what he should do. I advised him that given the time difference our Lt Col, Wing J2, was just arriving at work at home station. I was about to call to him when the Lt came on shift. I advised the Lt that as ranking J2 for our unit in theater he should be the one to call the Lt Col and explained what he should relay and why. I stood by while he called and prompted him as needed. Months later he received an award for his actions that day and the days that followed. I received no award or even any recognition. The only thing that rankled was that during his award ceremony he could have acknowledged my support but didn't.

Response by SGT John Griep made Sep 26 at 2019 9:55 AM

SGT John Griep — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 09:55:04 -0400

When I was in my first permanent duty station, and we had come back from a deployment, we were guarding and moving Persing missiles in Germany. Not a single officer in my unit had objects thrown at them, not a single one was assaulted by. Civilians, and two of them never left our compound, yet they were given MSM's and ARCOMs, our section SGT got an AAM and the rest of us got Certificates of Achievements, funny thing was non of us truck drivers or trained to do anything with Nuclear weapons, we were just extra people that they needed to do duty after the bombing of the PX in Frankfurt. We were a mix of people from our Units Motor Pool. After our awards ceremony where people who did nothing were praised, our Section Sergeant was pissed, he told us that he had put everyone in for ARCOMs and that because of our ranks it was the highest award he could put any one of us in for, and in the process it would only take two people to down grade the packet and that is why we got certificates, he because of his rank was put in for an MSM buy our section OIC and his was down graded twice also, he was not pissed as much for himself, he was pissexcause he knew we needed those awards for our future promotion prosess, as we would need the points. That is when I learned of the flawes system. Awards were not based on what you did they started out being based on your rank. So when they are submitted they are put in for a higher level award, because people k ow that they could be downgraded going through the approval process, and god forbid that in that process that someone reviewing it does not particularly care for your personality,or that they really are buddy buddy with someone else getting put in for the the same award. The funny thing was the writing in the awards was all the same, our section SFC and our OIC had the same exact writing on their awards, word for word, one of the squad leaders in another platoon that went with us, had the same exact words in his AAM as all of our certificates, but because he was in a different platoon his went up a little different chain and was only downgraded once. When I left the military It really did not matter, I did my time and enjoyed my service for the most part. I learned that there were things that were not so much different there as the real world. Not everything is fair, and you really see the fault when you stand in formation and hear the wording on those awards, and it is all the same and everyone gets a different award. I just wonder if when an officer gets his/her award and then they hear the wording on all those certificates, and it is the same as theirs, if they think man this is a flawed system, or are they saying , yeah I deserved a higher award for doing less than tgem?

Response by Capt Julie Shapiro made Sep 26 at 2019 2:38 PM

Capt Julie Shapiro — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:38:23 -0400

I find this interesting because my experiences in the USAF were totally the opposite of this. Enlisted would receive awards right and left for things that officers are just expected to do without reward. Also when it came to punishments I often saw enlisted get article 15’s when an officer with the same transgression would be stripped of their rank and sent to Fort Leavenworth, ending in a dishonorable or general discharge which poorly effected the rest of their lives.

Response by LTC Philip Marlowe made Sep 26 at 2019 5:50 PM

LTC Philip Marlowe — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 17:50:14 -0400

Statement of the obvious. Awards are inconsistently given. The US Army - in particular - has effectively undermined the value of its awards program. I think the ultimate reason is people are inconsistent. What you might think of as 'exemplary' performance for someone else might be simply what is expected. No matter how hard you attempt to 'define' criteria, someone will find a work around. When I was on active duty - as an Officer - in the 80/90s, I thought the reverse was true - Jr Enlisted/Enlisted couldn't even LEAVE a unit without their receiving something - AAM/ARCOM and unless they had royally messed up - for the most part they did. For officers, it seemed to me the opposite to be true. I use Desert Shield/Storm as an example. My Spec 4 driver received a Bronze Star for - driving. While I, who served as ADVON Provost Marshal, brigade LNO to ARCENT and who had the Commanders of two units I worked with, submit me for Bronze stars for my efforts - the result being: one was cancelled and the other down graded to an MSM. I suppose, not unlike a lot of things, the fairness or whatever you want to call it of the Army's award system or process effectiveness, efficiency or accuracy is all in the 'eyes of the beholder'.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made Sep 27 at 2019 10:11 AM

CPO Arthur Weinberger — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:11:59 -0400

They are allowed to put themselves in for awards. If they are liked by their supers; the award will be given. Not fair, but life is not fair.

Response by CPL Mark Garrigus made Sep 27 at 2019 12:40 PM

CPL Mark Garrigus — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 12:40:10 -0400

The amount of awards given for Unit performance is a serious problem. One of the respondents said Senior officers are better at writing and recommending awards to other officers. That answer sucks. So they know how to pad their own resume and don’t bother to pad the resumes of the soldiers who get them the awards. Leadership awards are won through the ability of enlisted, NCO,s and to carry out orders that the Officers are taught to give in their training. It’s the enlisted that earn those awards. I have found in most cases giving the order is the easy part. Carrying it out involves the most skill and bravery and Talent. Those who can, do the job! Those who can’t, manage or teach!

Response by SPC Mike Polston made Sep 27 at 2019 5:22 PM

SPC Mike Polston — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:22:17 -0400

It's because they are the leaders and get credit for the ones under them. It all rolls downhill but there are holes in the way because may officers tend to think it's a burden on them.

Response by SPC Mike Polston made Sep 27 at 2019 5:25 PM

SPC Mike Polston — Fri, 27 Sep 2019 17:25:49 -0400

It's because officers are seen as the leaders over enlisted so they get the credit first. Sadly many officer see giving awards to enlisted as a burden.

Response by CW4 William Kessinger made Sep 28 at 2019 1:58 PM

CW4 William Kessinger — Sat, 28 Sep 2019 13:58:28 -0400

I never once thought anything I was doing in Viet Nam was going to earn any kind of award. I just did what the mission required and hoped the outcome was successful and safe. I don't know of any other Warrant or Commissioned Officer that ever did it for the reconnation or a medal on his chest. As a crew we were all put in for awards based on the danger and outcome of the mission and exposure to enemy fire. True the aircraft commander usually was upgraded above the rest of the crew as he made that decisions.

Sorry guys I think this is BS to just start a conversation.

Response by MSgt R Roberts made Sep 29 at 2019 6:09 PM

MSgt R Roberts — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:09:51 -0400

Well speaking from an AF perspective its the same crap. Ive read the AFI on decs and dont see a rank titled to the more common awards yet when I wrote awards for my personnel , the first question was about their rank. The guy could have hing the moon and stats but if he was an E5 on down he got a AF Ach, an officer do the same, skys the limit. Yet even to my retirement it doesnt make a bit of sense as the head shed has last say as to what you warrant. Ive seen an E8 get a Bronze star for something he wasnt wven in the same theater for, yet when that fact was brought up, shut up and color in your own corner. Ive tried to take care of my guys as best as i could and they knew it. If its really important to an individual do the lef work and push it through, my personal feeling was that little piece of paper and ribbon isnt as important as doing the right thing for the right reasons. Just my 2 cents

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Oct 1 at 2019 5:32 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:32:51 -0400

This dumbass question again? If awards are whats important to you youre in the wrong line of work.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Oct 1 at 2019 5:37 PM

CPL Steve Freeman — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:37:11 -0400

If more people worried half as much about doing their jobs as they do about being rewarded the world would be a much better and safer place. Quit bitching about rewards and just do your damned job. Holy shit

Response by LTC Marcus Seitz made Oct 8 at 2019 9:10 PM

LTC Marcus Seitz — Tue, 08 Oct 2019 21:10:37 -0400

I would say generally you are correct, the higher the rank, the more likely you are not only to receive an award but to receive a higher award. But during my career the primary consideration was the motivation of the nominating leader and organization. I was in organizations that made a point to recognize most anyone for not only on the spot actions but also routine PCS activity. But in other units it was a rare event even for PCS or even ETS events. I just heard from a current Soldier that his unit informed their Soldiers that everyone who completed a certain difficult task would be awarded an AAM. That was about a year ago and nobody received their award. I definitely saw that ETS awards were based on the rank of the person retiring. I've met specialists that had 5 AAMS and 3 ARCOMS and also met lieutenants (1LT) with one AAM (for their PCS).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2019 8:54 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Oct 2019 08:54:46 -0400

That is the difference between corporate and executive level. It sucks but it follows the same philosophy of CEOs and executives getting paid doing the same or less then the others not getting paid. just translate that to the army and you got an army award system

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2019 12:09 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 00:09:39 -0400

I guess this might be the main reason why my dad decided to retire in the Army in 1972. He was a Korean Conflict and Vietnam War Combat Soldier. When I was growing up on the many Army Forts, my dad would talk about how the old Army generation knew what the hell was going on compared to the new generation of that time. But that’s another sea story. In my professional opinion officers do get heck of a lot of awards than our enlisted folks. Especially when you’re in combat. Its pretty amazing to see officers compare or downright complain about their award. To me personally getting a personal award for something that was your responsibility in the first place doesn’t cut the mustard with me. I’ve written many awards for my Marines if it was merited and definitely deserving. A personal award should be for something that is extraordinary for what that individual did to complete the overall mission. I never had a problem with awarding Marines during my career either as a Gunnery Sergeant or Chief Warrant Officer. Semper Fi!

Response by CW4 Eric Clayton made Nov 1 at 2019 4:40 PM

CW4 Eric Clayton — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:40:43 -0400

Officer take care of each other, period. They know how to write and how to work the system. After all, they CREATED the system.

Some enlisted Soldiers don’t get high awards because often their actions don’t merit such. Others don’t get the award because some CSM didn’t get his first ARCOM until they were a 1SG. Leaders are often loathe to write an award for which they themselves DON’T HAVE. I loved writing awards and could quantify everything my Soldiers did. In 28 years of service I never had any of my Soldier’s downgraded. I argued vigorously and provided proof of their actions. I also went toe to toe with any CSM and practically dared him/her to say otherwise. I also got the approving authority on my side early on.

Either way the system is not fair, but leaders need to know how to write and stand up for their people. This goes for evaluations as well.

Response by Col John Madison made Nov 1 at 2019 5:00 PM

Col John Madison — Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:00:16 -0400

If it's awards you want, join the Air Force...they'll give enlisted awards for making your rack daily. You don't even have to make it well, just be sure the blanket hides all the wrinkles. LOL The bottom two rows of USAF ribbons are invariably participation ribbons, assignment, training (PME), NCO schtuff. It's quite easy to get fruit salad in the AF.

Response by CPO Kim Hanthorn made Nov 7 at 2019 10:05 AM

CPO Kim Hanthorn — Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:05:24 -0500

Just be happy to get a paycheck! Only awards that have any value is a Purple Heart (I hope you never get one), MOH, or an expeditionary/campaign award like OIF/OEF South West Asia medals or ribbons, to get you into the VFW. When you get out of the Military awards don’t amount to shit.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2019 10:26 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:26:14 -0500

The award system is definitely broken. When I was enlisted, I was in charge of the brigade’s dental section (orders,inventory,shortages, etc) that was worth over 300k. I was over this section for 6 years. At the time I was a SPC/CPL. My company COC put me in for various awards but I could never get an ARCOM (until I ETS’d). However, I’d see SGTs and SSGs get ARCOMs for single inventories that involved less equipment and dollars than my own.

When I was having my DD-214 prepared, the GS-11 checking it said that it is ridiculous that I have 11 AAMs and if my rank had been higher (SSG or LT for example), I’d likely have 3 or 4 ARCOMs. On the other hand, I did see my Brigade Dentist leave the unit with only an AAM despite multiple field exercises and providing dental coverage for over 4,000 assigned soldiers and multiple attached soldiers.

Response by CW3 Joe Woolever made Nov 7 at 2019 3:05 PM

CW3 Joe Woolever — Thu, 07 Nov 2019 15:05:18 -0500

As with many traits a soldier, NCO, or Officer should have, being humble is one of the most important in my opinion. I understand that being recognized for a successful mission or going above and beyond, is important...it isn’t everything. Knowing you’ve given the task your all, and it helped in leading to the success of your units’ mission should be all the thanks you should expect. Look out your window and down the street...you see the children laughing and playing, you see the shiny new cars, you see neighbor across the street having a BBQ with friends...do you hear the music you prefer to listen to? All these things are the result of you giving it your all every day. Yes pinning a medal in your chest feels good, but seeing your friends, family, and neighbors benefit from the fruits of your labor is all the reward I ever needed. My words will not mean much until such time you are able to step back and take a real look around.

Response by PFC Melissa Fix made Nov 12 at 2019 8:45 PM

PFC Melissa Fix — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 20:45:52 -0500

Doesn't matter where you are employed, upper management always get the credit for subordinates work. Get use to it.

Response by SPC LeBron Spain made Nov 14 at 2019 1:37 AM

SPC LeBron Spain — Thu, 14 Nov 2019 01:37:26 -0500

quit yer bitching , you know they're better than we are....

Response by SFC William Ewing made Nov 22 at 2019 12:05 AM

SFC William Ewing — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:05:54 -0500

When I was in Vietnam in a combat service support unit Finance
We had over 400 soldier's assigned.
With detachments on several bases.
We did our day job pulled guard every third night patrolled when needed got shot at and shot back.
A memo came down that no end of your awards would be made.
Only ten awards a month authorized.
I was 19 months in country received over ten letters of commendation but no medals. Went from PFC to SSG.
Couple of years later the latter's were pulled they weren't signed by a COL

Someone at higher headquarters decided to many medals were being awarded. I wrote several for my guys never heard anything on them except waiting. They may have went into the circles file

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Nov 22 at 2019 2:52 AM

CPT Robert Holden — Fri, 22 Nov 2019 02:52:12 -0500

Not an unreasonable question but I suspect it’s all about perspective. Since I began as enlisted I tend to look at things through two perspectives

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Nov 25 at 2019 7:57 PM

CPT Robert Holden — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 19:57:28 -0500

While it’s possible. Officers are usually in charge and their actions are much more visible

Response by SSG Paul Mulvany made Nov 25 at 2019 8:09 PM

SSG Paul Mulvany — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 20:09:42 -0500

Simple answer, what comes naturally to EMs & NCOs is difficult and confusing to JR officers!

Response by SPC David Gray made Nov 25 at 2019 8:44 PM

SPC David Gray — Mon, 25 Nov 2019 20:44:19 -0500

Only person in my 11c mortar class of 100 to score expert got pat on shoulder company mortar ash and xo got arcoms

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Nov 26 at 2019 8:22 AM

Sgt Peter Schlesiona — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 08:22:44 -0500

Jeez..... after reading many of the responses, all I can say is.......Huh? For crying out loud, folks (especially you Army folks), could you stop assuming that everyone on Rally Point is familiar with every freakin’ acronym you use every day? I can certainly get the jist of the comments, but it would be better to know (completely) what you are saying. Some of us have been out of the service a long time now. 75% or more of the modern acronyms mean nothing to me/us.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Dec 14 at 2019 12:58 PM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 12:58:07 -0500

This occured in the Navy as well during my time. Captains would receive awards that were a result of the effort, sacrifice, and performance of every member of ships company. As the old saying goes 'we were all in the same boat' but as Orwell observed some are more equal than others.
I would note also that enlisted MOH recipients far outnumber officers.
Of course officers must have decorations to be promoted. We in the enlisted ranks neefed to know our jobs, do our jobs, and provide that first line supervision necessary to accomplish whatever the mission might be.

Response by Maj Earl Tilford made Dec 15 at 2019 3:26 PM

Maj Earl Tilford — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:26:03 -0500

Officer evaluations are much more subjective than enlisted. Enlisted are tested prior to promotion. It depends on service because each has a distinct culture despite prattling about being "One Team" and "purple." There are also generational differences. World War II generation lasted through Vietnam. The Vietnam generation peaked with the leading edge of the Baby Boomers who tended to be very career oriented. The post-Vietnam war generation got a good dose of MBO. The all volunteer Army altered the paradigm. Officers who game the system often succeed in getting promoted. I think the Air Force I served in was overly fixated on appearance over substance. A friend who made Lieutenant General advised me, "It's not who or what you are, it's who or what you appear to be that matters." A piece of advice I never took to heart from a USAFA grad was, "If you're going to offend on substance, don't offend on appearance." He was correct, but I just enjoyed offending, especially the pompous and, unfortunately for my career (about which I never really concerned myself), the powerful. I think my strength was that I never cared about promotion. I always went for the job and the joy of doing it, not for where it situated me on the promotion potential list. I retired as a major and while many see that as a "failed career" I did not. I gained a lot of experience, pissed off more than my share of senior officers, and situated myself for a great career as a civilian academic, much of it launched by writing about my Air Force experiences. In the post-Vietnam era movie, "Apocalypse Now" Army CAPT Fred Willard is going "up river" to end the career and life of Col. Walter Kurtz. In reviewing the colonel's personnel record he noted, "He was being groomed to go to the head of the corporation but he decided to go for himself instead." Good advice. If you go into the military with the idea that you are going to serve a higher calling and it may end up costing your life, then don't worry about how many medals you get or what kind of dohicky you wear on your shoulder or collar. If you don't let promotion define who or what you are, you can have a very rewarding career. My complements to COL Kurtz!

Response by CPT Stanley Reed made Dec 17 at 2019 10:58 PM

CPT Stanley Reed — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 22:58:12 -0500

What a load of crap. My first tour in Vietnam I was a Infantry Platoon Leader, I had a punjabi stick driven thru my knee and the medic forgot about it. After an action myself and my Platoon Sergeant were put in for Silver Stars. Never heard a thing. All I came back with was the CIB. On my second tour in RVN I was awarded some and I earned them. As well as what I received over 35 years of service.

Response by COL Herman L. made Dec 22 at 2019 9:20 AM

COL Herman L. — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 09:20:17 -0500

Many times it is the unit that makes a difference regarding awards. As a junior officer (and good writer with an MBA) my commanding officer put me in charge of writing up awards for any deserving airman (I was Air Force at the time). I was instructed that you had to build a pyramid unless it was someone in a war zone. So I did that for many enlisted. So that meant starting them out with achievement medals then commendations and so on. I came across someone who made E-7 in under 10 years without any awards. I asked her E-9 about that and he said no one had time to write one up (unit problem). So I skipped the achievement and went right to commendation. In that unit and command no one under Colonel got a Legion of Merit, that meant LTC too. In the war zone it was a little different. Service awards had a rank structure, heroism awards, not so much. It just made a difference if there was someone who knew how to write things up. In WW2 my dad took some shrapnel in the back of his thigh (had the scars until the day he died) was sitting in a waist gunner seat in a B-24 over Europe trying to shot German fighters out of the sky. He got an Air Medal but I asked him about a purple heart and he said "aw, they forgot".

Response by CWO2 M J made Dec 22 at 2019 10:06 AM

CWO2 M J — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 10:06:08 -0500

I can answer this easily as I was in both the enlisted and officer sides. Simple answer, officers have far more responsibility and visibility. It takes a more standout enlisted person to become visible enough to receive an award, especially higher awards that are not valor related.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Jan 8 at 2020 11:46 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Wed, 08 Jan 2020 23:46:09 -0500

I received several awards while in Vietnam (67-70) but the best award was seeing one of my E-5 Sergeants getting a Bronze Star for his work with the Montagnards. I still have the picture of the General giving it to him.

Response by SFC George Crabtree made Jan 14 at 2020 2:28 PM

SFC George Crabtree — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 14:28:39 -0500

Yeah, the system sucks. But it is our system. If everyone did everything they were supposed to do all the time, we wouldn't need NCO's. Or awards. The 'I was there' buttons I was given weren't just mine. The system isn't designed to be fair or to recognize every act of merit or courage. It is supposed to encourage the behavior. In everybody. Ask any MOH recipient worth the ribbon and they will tell you they wear it for all the guys that can't. That is the idea. “Give me enough medals and I’ll win you any war” Napoleon. There is another quote about fighting for a scrap of cloth or bit of ribbon but the idea is sound and time tested. I am much more concerned with award inflation where they become meaningless and lose their motivating influence.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2020 9:51 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 21:51:09 -0500

Awards are given for the "impact" of the Soldier's actions, not necessarily just for their "actions"; IAW Regulation. The fact of the matter is that an Officer will impact a broader spectrum then the NCO on most occasions. Thus it is easier to justify their awards. The justification has nothing to do with the actual rank of the Soldier, again it is the impact that their actions have on the Army, Brigade, Battalion, Company, etc. For example if your impact is to your squad then it is not going to justify an MSM, unless you saved the entire life of that squad, where as an impact to a Brigade could be much less then saving ones life, but the impact is more vast and again easier to justify. I hope this helps?

Response by SGT Lenise Hamilton made Jan 24 at 2020 9:20 PM

SGT Lenise Hamilton — Fri, 24 Jan 2020 21:20:37 -0500

Hi SGT Cody, it called politics, however, we know who do all the work right :-) .

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2020 11:22 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 23:22:45 -0500

Because officers are typically better at mentoring each other and teach each other how to operate within the system better. It’s the last Aristocracy within western culture, military officers...

Response by CPL Mark Kirkpatrick made Feb 7 at 2020 6:39 PM

CPL Mark Kirkpatrick — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:39:13 -0500

I was put in for an award one time when I did something so incredibly stupid that given a fraction of a second to think, I may have hesitated. Since I did not have that time, I did what had to be done and accomplished what needed to be done. No one died even though the chances of both of us dying was about 90%. My award was downgraded to a verbal atta boy because we were someplace we had orders (as a unit) not to be. I know what I did and only one person has ever heard about it from me. There are at least two children in the world because of my actions and I have to say that may be a better award any way.

Response by SPC Todd Everetts made Feb 11 at 2020 8:48 PM

SPC Todd Everetts — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 20:48:52 -0500

I served in a reactivated unit in my single enlistment. We spent 3+ out of 4 weeks in the field for over 2 years. But that's for another topic. During my tour I never so much as received an unfavorable counseling statement. Nothing but awards and letters (I was put in for ARCOM's, which were always downgraded according to my SSGT). Held over for Stop Loss, transferred to another battery as they were so short handed and my battery had an abundance of comm's MOS's. My new platoon SGT would not put me in for a good conduct ribbon when Stop Loss was lifted. He didn't like me and made it known, which was fine, I still did my job. I worked directly with officers and he was one of a few NCO's that seemed to not like that I had a good relationship with them.

Its just a piece of cloth, but to this day at 50, it still grinds me a bit. I was a good soldier and kept my nose clean. Wasn't Eisenhower perfect, but I excelled at what I did and never had an issue. When the Reserve unit nearby knocked on my door for a year asking me to enlist, that ribbon popped into my head. Petty? Yeah. Indicative of some Army leadership? You bet. Wouldn't trade my service for anything and would do the exact same thing all over again, but there are those in leadership who do a great job of chasing decent soldiers out of reenlistment no matter the bonus.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2020 8:35 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:35:18 -0500

The people around them and above them are writing awards?

I've processed 2 awards in my S1 shop for officers in a hefty span as the BN S1. And then the standard retirement awards.

I have seen way more awards for enlisted Soldiers than officers. We have Solid NCOs And officers recognizing their Soldiers for their hard work.

I've been in the Army 15 years. 8enliated the rest as an officer. I have one AAM.

Response by 1SG Eddie Smith made Feb 27 at 2020 3:42 PM

1SG Eddie Smith — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 15:42:39 -0500

Level of responsibility.

Response by Cpl Richard Besser made Mar 8 at 2020 1:45 PM

Cpl Richard Besser — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 13:45:30 -0400

I'm 75yrs old and long out of the Corps. but my older brother and I both think of ourselves as Marines.
Some of you will be pissd at my response but some of you will get a chuckle out of it.
As a LCpl. on my way to Vietnam in 1966 I stopped at Okinawa. Was talking to a 1Sgt in his office and during our conversation, he said "what the hell is going on? You should be a Cpl. by now. He looked over my file and went to see the CO. He came back and congratulated me for becoming a CPL :)
When I reported to a GySgt. in Nam, he chewed ME out for being a Cpl. because he had requested a LCpl.
I didn't know if I should be proud of my promotion or upset because I pissed off a Gy.Sgt. :) Thinking about it now, maybe I should be proud that I pissed of the Gy. :)

Response by SPC Nils Hammer made Mar 23 at 2020 7:57 PM

SPC Nils Hammer — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:57:53 -0400

More like hundreds of years going on. I read the book on the charge of the light brigade, and the uppity entitlement culture played a major role in causing the disaster. Thanks for posting. I didn't know any intel folks got any awards. I sure didn't. I was some sort of politically incorrect, being a teenager and not knowing to lose money to the boss at poker.

Response by CPT Richard Carmody made Apr 6 at 2020 8:57 PM

CPT Richard Carmody — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:57:29 -0400

Towards the end of my first tour in Vietnam, I recommended to our Battery CO that he recommend each of our howitzer section chiefs for a BSM. He told me that if I felt strongly about it then write up the recommendations. I did, and I’m proud to say that each of them received their awards. They taught me a lot and so did the CO.

Response by CPT J B made Apr 6 at 2020 9:00 PM

CPT J B — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 21:00:40 -0400

Try this: go to your squad leader (or supervisor) and respectfully ask him if you can be put in for an award. Be prepared to cite reasons why you feel you deserve it, in case he asks. If he says yes, wait a week and then follow up with him. If he says no, forget about it and try again the next time you do something for which you think you should be recognized and weren't. Also, as a noncommissioned officer yourself you can always recommend to your squad leader awards for soldiers in your team who deserve it.

Response by SPC Stiv ChenRobbins made Apr 7 at 2020 8:09 AM

SPC Stiv ChenRobbins — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:09:30 -0400

I was by no means a career soldier, so the long-term effects were less important to me. I did get an Army Commendation Medal while I was still a PFC, though I actually received it when I was a spec-4. At the same awards ceremony one of the higher NCOs was moving on and got one for basically sticking around a few years and not messing up.
I am pretty sure mine meant a lot more to me than his did to him. It didn't bother me in the least what he got. His good fortune was not my misfortune.

Response by WO1 Dave Middleton made Apr 7 at 2020 5:08 PM

WO1 Dave Middleton — Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:08:51 -0400

My observation in Vietnam was that after 6 months an officer received a bronze star, which lessened its value in my opinion. Also, almost every time a battalion officer came, to get his monthly flight hours, and flew front seat cobra (safest seat in the house) and if we engaged ( most days) medals were put in for. None ever took me up on the respectful offer to come fly peter pilot in my loach, some even laughed out load at the offer.

Response by AB Blake Bowers made Apr 8 at 2020 2:28 AM

AB Blake Bowers — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 02:28:11 -0400

Carry it further. Why does someone completing basic training come out with so many ribbons and awards? 20 years ago, you could do a career without more than 3-4 ribbons. Now, you get awards for participating...... Or so it seems to us retired folks.

Response by COL Robert Dey made Apr 8 at 2020 10:51 PM

COL Robert Dey — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 22:51:26 -0400

I am a retired officer having left the Army in 1982, so my comments are perhaps outdated in today's volunteer forces. I did command units up to Brigade level while active and I identify closely with all the troops even today. I always felt the awards "system" and the culture of giving awards was imperfect, but it was the best we could come up with. Especially in the combat environment there were countless acts of bravery and outstanding exhibits of skill that went undocumented or unnoticed. And yes there were abuses of the system which awarded medals to soldiers and officers solely because of their rank. These were the exception however, and not reason to trash the entire award system. In a good unit, the commander has created a team, and everyone on that team recognizes his or her role on the team and, importantly, respects the role of the other team members. To use a football analogy, everyone cannot be the quarterback who gets the credit for the wins. But the quarterback knows he could not have survived without the blocking of his linemen, the ability of the receivers, and the skills of the running backs. Consequently, some roles in an Army team make the leaders more visible and they tend to get "the credit". A good leader will then turn around and find a way to recognize and reward the rest of his team. This doesn't always happen, but I hope that the leaders who read this forum will realize that any award they are given should probably be shared with those who do the grunt work. For those of you who write cynical comments about butt-kissing etc I want to add that the military services at least continue to care more about each other than anything I saw in civilian endeavors, so I hope you will try to make the Army culture better rather than just making snide remarks. We are still a team, and need to stay strong.

Response by SPC Barry Smith made Apr 8 at 2020 11:02 PM

SPC Barry Smith — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 23:02:32 -0400

This is the same thing that went on in Vietnam the officers got all the awards and recognition they listed been good if you awards

Response by 1SG Carlos E Bonet made Apr 9 at 2020 4:13 AM

1SG Carlos E Bonet — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 04:13:41 -0400

I have a much simpler answer, there’s a big % of leaders that don’t like to write. Is a lot easier to say or give a pad on their back that writing an award for a well deserving joe. NCOEER 2166-7 and -1 , using the check list is the easiest and the correct way to generate a true report fair to the joe and the system. How many people out there is using it? In my experience, not many. I could compare it to the night vision scope for the 50 cal. Awards are usually approved by officers, is a lot easier for them to generate and Get them approve.

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Apr 9 at 2020 7:52 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 07:52:46 -0400

The only thing I'll say about this is another paraphrase about some Guy (enlisted) who said of course he'd go some mission where he could save an officer. Something about how if he was enlisted and saved an officer's life, then he'd be eligible for "The One You Wear Around Your Neck." I always thought that was funny.

Response by MSG Bonnie Casler made Apr 9 at 2020 10:36 AM

MSG Bonnie Casler — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:36:41 -0400

Awards going to officers before troops on the ground has been an issue way back when I was in the service. Some rightfully deserving, but that officer should also recognize the troops that made them look good. I too am a retired MSG and worked at many levels throughout my time. Only once did I hear a 2 Star say “I am not approving one more award for an officer until I see an award for the troops that did the deed”. it was a good time for all the enlisted.

Throughout my training as an NCO, I was taught to take care of my people. I took that very seriously. Their health and welfare as well as their careers. I was stationed near Seneca Army Depot in New York. On their water tower was a statement “Mission first, people always”.

What really saddens me is the fact that no matter how much the military identifies their weaknesses, they don’t seem to become strengths. Awards to officers and not enlisted is an issue way back. It has been identified as an issue, it has been discussed and still it is an issue. Maybe not all services, but I know the Army needs some work.

My son in-law is in the Navy and he is very good about recognizing his sailors, but it didn’t come easy for him. He was use to being the receiver as he was doing great things as a young officer. Now as an 04, he realizes the importance of making sure he recognizes his personnel. Helps to have me as a mother-in-law. Lol.

Response by Capt Bill Spickerman made Apr 9 at 2020 10:50 AM

Capt Bill Spickerman — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:50:29 -0400

I was in the airforce 24+ years. Retired 1991. Aircraft weapins loader 14 years (E-7 in 13 years), then OTS for 10+ years, retired as 0-3. So I had more enlisted time than as an officer. As an enlisted troop, I received awards like Nco of the quarter, and other. As an officer I did the same. There is more competition with the enlisted side because there are more enlisted compared to officers. Some factors that help: 1. volunteer for special projects, more responsibility and activities, on and off base. 2. Find out what awards are available and look at the criteria that is used to evaluate them. Do you have something to fit each criteria? 3. Set an example for others to follow and you will stand out. 4. Build a positive relationship with peers, higher ranking enlisted and officers in your unit and you will be recognized.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2020 9:35 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:35:16 -0400

This topic is a very volatile and for the most part misunderstood. I hope to offer clarity based on what I have seen. I got to serve at higher command HQ for half of my career, and most supervisors have a way of NOT recognizing the people around them based on one selfish measurement, they measure they use themselves to measure those around them! I have known some individuals who would rather have an arm broken than to pick up a pen and write a letter, or seek an award for any soldier.

The ability to see exceptional behavior, conduct and service should be an easy thing to see, but the system does not encourage this behavior. As an example our services have a built in disregard for rewarding some of our highest awards, why would they want to handout lesser ones. The powers that be will always measure the current service person in a lesser way. This is not fair, but it seems to be human nature. Yours, CPT Mark Crane

Response by SFC Rollie Hubbard made Apr 9 at 2020 11:32 PM

SFC Rollie Hubbard — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 23:32:32 -0400

RHIP

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 12:32 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:32:07 -0400

I didn't really think it was a thing for Officers to get more awards but more so of a higher award. I think It comes down to a few factors though, what your level of responsibility was and if you have a command/first line leader will put you in for the service or action you did. Most Officers that get put in for award is because they played a leadership role of some sort. If your e-4 and below; normally awards are given out for achievement and only service for pcs or deployment. - if put in for recommendation, sometimes a leader can be salty or doesn't believe your action was worth putting in for the recommendation. When it does get wrote by a recommender; there's multiple reasons why awards most of the time will get downgraded or not recommended. Chances are if the award is not wrote out to be something special or wrote poorly, "Sell yourself- for example quantifiable numbers and if you were responsible for any signed equipment how many and the value." it wont hold up, so having someone that knows how to write an award helps.

Response by Cpl Bobbylee Dominguez made Apr 11 at 2020 1:26 PM

Cpl Bobbylee Dominguez — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:26:11 -0400

Try earning some and you'll notice this is not true.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2020 1:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:58:32 -0400

Short answer......... Politics. It's the nature of the beast. When the army loses good enlisted personnel, nco and junior soldier alike, it's the one sided stuff like this that plays a major role in it. I put in two soldiers for an award for completing the army 10 miler faster than the Ranger 5 mile pace. The LT didn't even attempt to submit it. Said we could maybe get them a COA. I treat it this way, if I get an award, I'm usually pretty surprised. Just do your job to the best of your ability. And if someone else gets recognized and you don't, as long as you know you did the right thing, then that's all that matters.

Response by SSG Ronald Rollins made Apr 12 at 2020 5:28 PM

SSG Ronald Rollins — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:28:42 -0400

I asked this question when I had soldiers awards downgraded and the 2dLt upgraded. I was told, in no uncertain terms mind you, we officers are better than enlisted and we deserve more. We went to college and you didn't. you could have and d idnt. your own fault.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2020 11:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:46:08 -0400

A lot of this boils down to unit culture, but there are some other factors.

First off, your branch may be a big part of what's going on. Awards outside of a deployment tend to be really rare in reserve components (National Guard and Reserves) just due to not being in a mission environment most of the time. Your NCOs might be unfamiliar with how and under what circumstances awards should be written, and some of your officers might be lacking in training when it comes to awards. Some officers and NCOs might even be lazy or apathetic with regards to recognizing their troops.

Second, I've seen the argument floated that a person of higher rank has higher responsibility and therefore should get a higher award. I've dealt with more that enough people dying due to incompetent leadership to not agree, somewhat, that this argument has merit. Ensuring that training and mission planning and execution are done properly so that the mission is accomplished and most or all of your troops make it home alive is definitely valuable and should be recognized. But when this kind of decoration is awarded, the unit should be present to hear the citation read, and the citation should include how many long nights and early mornings went into what that officer or senior NCO achieved, and how much personal sacrifice was involved. That way the troops know that it's not a bullshit award being given because the boys' club is looking after its own.

Anyone asserting that there are no boys' (and girls') clubs in the military must have led a blessed and sheltered experience where all the officers and NCOs are competent and believe that the mission always comes first and that the needs of team members are always taken into account as much as the situation allows. When I was in Afghanistan, I was lucky to have great leadership for the most part; but since then, an organization I was part of was riddled with officers and senior NCOs who played favorites and hooked up their buddies. I personally worked for four years with multiple officers and multiple Sergeants Major to get impact awards for several soldiers and DA Civilians. There was never any feedback about the impact not being significant enough or the paperwork being incomplete or incorrect; I looked up all of the regulations and wrote out the awards myself and sent them up through the chain, and all of my emails and RFIs were simply ignored, as were the emails and in-person conversations and RFIs of one Captain who looked into it for me. Meanwhile, these same officers and NCOs were handing out awards like candy to soldiers and DA Civilians that were on teams they favored and in which they had buddies. After four years of failure I finally gave up and quit giving a damn, and told the individuals I had nominated for awards that I was sorry, but even though I knew they were producing above and beyond all the other teams, there was nothing I could do to get them any recognition because we weren't in the boys' club with the Majors and Lieutenant Colonels. I felt I owed them an honest answer. In retrospect, I suppose I could have called the IG, but then again, while some awards might have gotten processed, my career would definitely have suffered because of it, and I was already unpopular enough with some of my leaders anyway, so I was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

At any rate, I do think there's a cultural problem with the awards system depending on where you're at and who you're dealing with. I think that quotas about X rank receiving X award are stupid, generally speaking, when it comes to awards for impact and valor. That's a great way to tell your troops that you don't give a shit about them than to let them get the idea that they're only going to get a certain level of attaboys until they achieve a particular rank. More officers and NCOs should read "Achilles in Vietnam: Traumatic Stress and the Undoing of Character" by Jonathan Shay and familiarize themselves with the effects on soldiers going through combat of believing (or knowing) that their leadership isn't in their corner or doesn't give a damn about them.

As far as asking for an award, I've only done that one time in my career. I was in a position in which I was doing highly technical work that had previously been done by two people in full-time positions. I had gone from zero training and experience to having learned two computer programming languages and multiple software development platforms in only 90 days and being the unit's sole administrator in that position. I had developed software that saved the unit literally tens of thousands of staff hours annually. I asked my supervisor if he would write me up for a state achievement ribbon because I planned on going into software development when I got out of the Army, and due to some situational particulars, I knew this accomplishment wasn't going to go on my NCOER. Given that an O-3 could approve the award, this would be a relatively easy way for me to get an on-paper recognition for some very real accomplishments that I could use as resume bullets after retirement. My supervisor decided to write it up as an ARCOM and got it awarded. Sometimes the system does work, when you have good leadership in place.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2020 12:29 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:29:42 -0400

Awards are presented for doing something great, not doing your job. Clearly there is something wrong with you

Response by MSG Felipe De Leon Brown made Apr 27 at 2020 11:04 AM

MSG Felipe De Leon Brown — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:04:15 -0400

There has existed an injustice in the military insofar as awards and decorations are concerned since the beginning of recognition for valor or service. The injustice no only has to do with rank but also with unit, duty position and other variables. For example, I came back to the World after an extended tour of duty on the same plane with a non-SF SP5 who worked in Awards & Decorations, 5th SFGA. He had a Bronze Star w/OLC. I knew another SF soldier who had served in several isolated A-Sites, experienced actual combat and was never recommended for an ARCOM. Was it fair? in my opinion, no. In another occasion, I saw a COL and a MSG PCS in the same month from the same duty station. Both were exemplary in their performance of duty. The COL received a LOM while the MSG (who had served the whole time in a SGM slot and represented the COL on several occasions) received an AAM as an afterthought. I've known many who walk around with a fruit salad on their chests although they haven't done half the work of any of their subordinates who, by the way, more often than not receive a "scrap medal" if at all. But here's the thing. Most who feel that they were/have been short-changed in recognition know that they earned every last award or decoration that is posted in their DD-214s.

Response by SSG Hank Ortega made May 1 at 2020 6:27 PM

SSG Hank Ortega — Fri, 01 May 2020 18:27:19 -0400

Simplest answer to me, is that Officers write each other up.
Where this becomes egregious is for Valorous awards. I could give a shit less about anything that gets worn lower than the national Defense Service ribbon, and indeed for anything "Meritorious". I've seen racks on senior officers stacked 4 and 5 rows, and not a single valorous award. that don't impress me much.
E-4's with Bronze Star with V, especially several, now THAT'S an award. or several.
A severe lack of leadership for LT's and Captains to not have a sense of awarding their soldiers for acts of bravery.
I myself, was awarded a Silver Star as a PFC. I was involved in an action that several other soldiers also expended maximum effort, closing with the enemy and prevailing in a hairy fight. Doing our jobs, but some of us got awards and some didn't. Exact same incident.
Or, sometimes if is because the Orderly room fails in it's job (the First Sgt and Exec Officer). Our unit made 3 Heliborne assaults under fire, Battalion insertions, all the Infantry companies wrote their soldiers up for Air Medals. HHC failed to even note anything about Mortars sections, and Medics, and the Engineers attached got nothing from their Batallion. "I didn't know" is a sorry answer when all three line companies got awarded Air Medals, and NOt a single Medic from HHC got one. Same action, same helicopters. That's 15 medics, at least.

Response by SSG Eric Tong made May 2 at 2020 12:10 AM

SSG Eric Tong — Sat, 02 May 2020 00:10:46 -0400

The simplest answer is most often the accurate answer. They write their own awards which are then signed off by their superior because he wrote his own award, etc. Enlisted don't write their own awards. They have to be recommended and approved by their supervisor. I've seen more shitebag officers with Bronze and Silver Stars they awarded themselves for sitting on their arses during deployments or planning something minor than I care to remember.

Response by CPT Tracy Earl made May 4 at 2020 6:41 AM

CPT Tracy Earl — Mon, 04 May 2020 06:41:59 -0400

This isn’t just an Army thing. I have served with the Navy and Marines and the exact same thing happens.
Part of this may be in the write up. If you are able to elaborate well and make it “very fluffy” then there may be a better chance the award gets approved.
One of my favorite excuses is that the officer has the higher responsibility! That is the situation went the other way and something serious happened, the officer is held more responsible than the enlisted. Maybe that’s why “sh$& rolls downhill!”

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2020 7:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 May 2020 19:10:04 -0400

I'm only responding to this because this thread keeps showing up in my email. I retired last year, and had previously been in a couple of positions where I was the approval authority for awards for the unit I served in. As a battalion commander, I can't ever recall signing an award for an officer, let alone recommending one, that wasn't a PCS award. I rarely denied or downgraded an award, but there were always discussions amongst the leadership from Battalion to Division and Corps about the level of responsibility and level of accountability the recipient held. As the signature authority for a time at the brigade level, there were some denials, but again, I don't ever recall signing an award for an officer that wasn't a PCS award. The vast majority of awards that came across my desk were for Soldiers and NCO's. My personal observations showed very poorly written awards (generally) led to downgrades or unrealistic expectations where leaders weren't willing to be the adult and say the recipient didn't qualify for the level of award they were being submitted for. The other observation was junior leaders were, generally, more reluctant to submit subordinates for awards. Dirty secret, if the award was for a Soldier and they weren't flagged, etc, the award was granted. Soldiers should be rewarded often, and generally were- board winners, soldier of the month, soldier of the quarter, etc. etc. etc. Sorry your unit stinks.

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made May 10 at 2020 8:56 PM

SPC Christopher Perrien — Sun, 10 May 2020 20:56:50 -0400

Huh,? I was a Spec 4 (5 years active 3 years guard) . I'd look like a Russian General, if I wore all my medals. LOL. Sorry. I was in in a different century. Things were different "back in the day" , and I lucked out to have good commanders in good units most of the time, and I was lucky a few times. Then again there were times I did stuff that was above and beyond and didn''t even get an attaboy (while in a chitty unit). Ah well, 50-100 comrades are alive that might not be , i'll trade that for my "lost (IMO)Soldier's medal", And those are rare,rare, rare, I know.

Often it is the luck of the draw of your unit assignment /commanders there and/or you're MOS in and opportunities to be "noticed". A unit that does not award lower rank for good/outstanding performance in their MOS or other areas and only awards officers? Is a chitty unit with chitty commanders. I knew guys in just a different company in my same battalion that got half the medals I did. Main Reason ? their company officers and NCO's. It was telling in more ways than one as I was in the best-company of battalion , better than theirs. Because our officer's/NCO's cared more it seems.

However Leadership/officer ranks does have its privileges and also increased responsibility so yea they kinda deserved higher recognition for an outstanding job at their level , but if those guys are getting dinky medals they better be fighting for their soldiers to get some recognition too, who help them get their awards , or they're going to be setting up a morale problem which can hurt them.

Really though, you only need 3 medals and a Certificate to max the 50pts, (if things are still the same. I would be looking into schools, special training, transfers, somewhere to swing at a better chance for them if your unit and leadership is not doing so., and awarding medals without recognizing lower ranks in team endeavors? What do they medals get for, that they only get alone? jacking off?

Note - 8 years and a Spec4, and a lack of awards(1 AAM)? , I'd be worried more about not being offered a re-enlistment , and with a re-enlistment that should be an AAM or Certificate and where is your GCM? bang 3 max medals your need for sergeant points. Past 3 medals it is just gravy with no potatoes. Go Pass the E-5 Board, and do PLDC higher up the list should get you something. Don't take a forth medal if no certificate of appreciation , try to get the forth downgraded.
It is counterintuitive but you need that certificate , if the point system is the same. Met alot of guys with many medals and no certificate- 45 points. Actually when I was in, certificates were harder to come by than medals in Germany. But I managed to get a couple of those there too. One being direct from the Berlin brigade Commander a 3 star, and I was mentioned by name in the NATO Order's of the day for my actions. I was very hung over when it occurred and even got an article 15 that same day LOL . Very funny story.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2020 5:02 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2020 17:02:19 -0400

rear echelon.

Response by PVT Brian Desormeaux made May 27 at 2020 11:57 PM

PVT Brian Desormeaux — Wed, 27 May 2020 23:57:56 -0400

Most are college graduates, and can be a bit more poetic than your platoon sergeant. You know, they can spin something as simple as “the private cleaned the barracks really good”; into, the “the soldier was very adept in the procedural aspects of facilitating a healthy, clean, environment for his fellow soldiers. Thus enabling senior personnel the ability to focus their resources and time on valuable training requested by their command staff.”

See...”polished turd”.

Response by SN Terry Poynter made Jun 28 at 2020 11:47 AM

SN Terry Poynter — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 11:47:03 -0400

I personally think the US Military gives out far too many medals and ribbons. thus why most call them fruit salad. We could take a lesson from the Brits and get rid of a lot of the "I was there and cleaned the head ribbons."

Response by MSgt Currie C. made Jul 6 at 2020 12:55 AM

MSgt Currie C. — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 00:55:43 -0400

Response by 1LT Richard Ellison made Jul 6 at 2020 4:09 AM

1LT Richard Ellison — Mon, 06 Jul 2020 04:09:08 -0400

Obviously things have changed since I was in the Army. I see the young NCO wearing almost as much as a North Korean General on their chest. Having served as both officer and NCO. Most certainly officers receive higher awards. A silver star on an officer might be the equivalent (or less) to an ARCOM w/V on a SP4. I refer to the legion of merit as a field grade ARCOM. That said it is what it is.

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Jul 9 at 2020 11:06 PM

LTC Pete Moore — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 23:06:04 -0400

You have to think about the types of awards: some are for valor (moh, silver star etc) , some are for merit (MSM, LOM etc), and some are for being there (osr, swas-s , etc). Officers tend to PCS more frequently that most nco’s and em- been there awards; officers tend to have greater responsibility - merit awards; valor awards tend to be more to combat arms Infantry, SF, etc but are certainly not exclusive. I had 34 separate awards in my 30 years of service. Desert Storm I got 6 different awards, seemed excessive. OEF and OIF I got three per, somolia two..... I gave a hella of a lot more awards to EM and NCO’s than I did officers yet most of my officers had more awards than the EMs.... screw the awards, do your best, study, be technically and tactically expert, and the awards will take care of themselves. The system is only as good as the integrity of the NCO’s and officers in the organization!

Response by SSG Ramon Torres made Jul 30 at 2020 2:11 PM

SSG Ramon Torres — Thu, 30 Jul 2020 14:11:01 -0400

I was deployed to Haiti for Operation Uphold Democracy as a buck Sgt.. My Lt. asks me should he put us in for an award for just doing our job. I, answered sir we are doing our assigned duties in a real life environment. This is not a training mission. I'm pretty sure you'll be getting an award for this deployment. He missed the deadline to submit for any awards. Needless to say he received an Arcom for the deployment. Just my two cents...

Response by SFC Marcel Brenneis made Aug 3 at 2020 2:30 AM

SFC Marcel Brenneis — Mon, 03 Aug 2020 02:30:37 -0400

As seen in OIF while working at Brigade is that Division puts out a roster by percentage to the Brigades on all awards by rank. Hence certain awards are given to higher ranks regardless if they performed their jobs proficiently.

Response by SP5 James Johnson made Aug 10 at 2020 11:54 AM

SP5 James Johnson — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:54:56 -0400

We had a Capt back in Nam. XO of the company. One night we got hit and everyone was on the revetments. This capt ran around behind the revetments (in a place where it was impossible to get hit) firing a blooper over the wire. He gave himself a Bronze Star for that. BTW we got 2-3 rockets and that was that.

Response by COL Robert Davies made Sep 6 at 2020 12:35 PM

COL Robert Davies — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 12:35:19 -0400

There is a sequence for Army awards that goes with rank. And dare I say there is also laziness on the part of first line supervisors. I was theoretically over the reserve / guard religious assets on AD west of the Mississippi and North of Mason Dixon. I saw the moves and asked what the awards were. I even made recommendations. My 2 MSM's and LOM were written by me.

Response by SSG Harry Herres made Sep 6 at 2020 10:12 PM

SSG Harry Herres — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 22:12:07 -0400

Sorry gang, officers rank higher than EMs always have always will. Officers even screw over others. Don't let it bother you, it don't mean nothing. You did your job that is why you joined. Ribbons mean nothing except look at me I'm impotent, thank to those who do the job!

Response by SSG Ivan Centola made Sep 17 at 2020 8:13 AM

SSG Ivan Centola — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:13:40 -0400

Well I was aviation and trust me I heard of people getting an aviator valor award just because they saw in a distance the explosion of flair and they just happened to be flying at that time

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Sep 17 at 2020 11:39 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 11:39:57 -0400

Kind of like why does Congress get pay raises even when the economy tanks.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Sep 20 at 2020 4:49 PM

TSgt David Olson — Sun, 20 Sep 2020 16:49:34 -0400

This happened in Vietnam. I was standing guard at the main road into our advisors’s compound. We were in a condition yellow, no personnel or vehicles allowed out. A Jeep approached me and I signaled him to stop, he demanded to know why and I replied “orders from the senior advisor, all personnel and vehicles restricted due to a condition yellow”. He told me to screw myself and roared off. I contacted the duty officer, who I was familiar with. We secured a relief for my self and he and I proceeded to the senior advisor’s room. I knew the senior advisor, as I was also his chauffeur. I told him what had transpired with Major—. The senior advisor told the duty officer and myself that he wanted that officer when he returned. When the Major returned the duty officer advised him that he was wanted. We escorted him to the senior advisor’s room, I was told by the duty officer to wait outside. The major responded to the colonel’s request that he explain. The major told the colonel that I was disrespectful, failed to salute and that I had no authority over him. The colonel began to strip the major of all his skin. He advised the major he was confined to his room until morning. He would be on the first plane out of Saigon in route to CONUS with his career finished. Also he would not be receiving a bronze star, that he had put himself in for for meritorious paper shuffling. At this time frame, officers could put themselves in for awards. Enlisted personnel had to have an officer verify the request.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Sep 26 at 2020 9:27 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Sat, 26 Sep 2020 09:27:30 -0400

After 50+ years, I ran across the lady's phone number in DC that could send me my awards shone on my records that I never got. It took 6 months and they finally came. My kids will wonder what they were when they clean out and throw out my stuff when I die. At least I finally got to see them. I guess they figured I would not live to see state side or any awards. I know what I did. I really never needed the pat on the back. Oh, back then NCO's ran the show in spite of Officers with no leadership skills what so ever!

Response by PO2 Lawrence Janiec made Oct 23 at 2020 11:15 AM

PO2 Lawrence Janiec — Fri, 23 Oct 2020 11:15:20 -0400

I am on the bottom end of all this, having left as an E-5 and not receiving any medals for merit or things I had done. Before I left my first command, my division seniors dangled a NAM (Navy Achievement Medal - pretty much the lowest of the Navy's merit-based medals) in front of me and told me they were considering putting me in for one, but really that was only so I didn't develop a "short timer" attitude and shirk off my responsibilities when I was close to leaving the command.

That's just as a point of reference.

This is the part that I actually understand why officers get better awards for doing the same thing. If a task gets done that might be award-worthy, the officer would be the one to get it, because not only did he help get the task done, but (s)he was responsible for everyone under him/her getting it done as well. For an officer, the price of success is (obviously) higher, but the price of failure is also much higher. If I failed at something as a low ranked enlisted, then I just got a small reprimand. If I caused the team to fail at something by failing at something minor, again I might get a small reprimand, because I was too low to know better (so to speak). But if I caused the team to fail, then the officer in charge might have his whole career ruined. Not by something he did, but by someone on his team failed to do. So the reason they get better rewards is because they have a much higher risk.

TLDR: Officers get better rewards for "the same thing" because failure for doing that "same thing" wrong has a much bigger penalty for the officer than the enlisted person.

Response by MSG Terry Lingle made Nov 1 at 2020 10:05 PM

MSG Terry Lingle — Sun, 01 Nov 2020 22:05:04 -0500

My experience from 69 to 89, when I retired as a US Army Master Sergeant, was that officers routinely got awards when enlisted didn’t. If an enlisted soldier got an AAM, any officer involved in the same action/event got an ARCOM, if an enlisted got Certificate of Achievement, any officer involved in the same action/event got an AAM. Officers (unless they were total fuckups) got an award on PCS or REFRAD, enlisted didn’t always fare so well. Early in my service I saw that most enlisted soldiers seldom got awards on PCS or ETS, but over time that changed. But the disparity has always been there. I also noted that (in non-combat environments anyway) enlisted grunts very often didn’t get any recognition at all, but their officers almost always did. If the question was ever raised as to why this disparity, the stock reply was always “levels of responsibility.” I received a MSM as an E7 on leaving my third tour in Korea, but it was almost downgraded to an ARCOM because “only battalion commanders and above get MSMs.” The only reason I got it was I was assigned to the AG Company and my commander fought like hell for me to get it. When I retired I got a second MSM, but I was recommended for a LOM. Had I been an officer (field grade or above) I surely would have gotten the LOM. Officer or enlisted mattered a great deal when I was serving, but if your command got behind you, it definitely helped.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Nov 1 at 2020 10:56 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sun, 01 Nov 2020 22:56:35 -0500

Let me tell you ahoy that shit! XO, never once donned hit vest except to come into country and exit country... mother fucker got a bronze star. CO, same thing. 1SG,OPS NCO, 3 E6,E7 from 1pltn.. all never once left the wire, but all thehighest decorated in the battery for the deployment

Response by GySgt Bill Chastain made Nov 11 at 2020 5:16 PM

GySgt Bill Chastain — Wed, 11 Nov 2020 17:16:43 -0500

I was a victim as were my Marines on occasion of this leadership deficiency that goes unacknowledged. In one instance my Marines and I fought a wild land fire for 16 hours and beat it, saving the Marine Corps 100s of thousands of dollars. I recommended each Marine for the Navy/Marine Corps Achievement medal. What I got from the unit that we had been attached to: a Letter of Commendation for myself and a Letter if Appreciation for my Marines! I called and told the Captain that I would happily wipe my ass with it.
Another occasion I was off duty and responded to a car accident. Witnesses said that I saved the lives of two sailors. The Adjutant didn’t like my ex-wife (can’t blame her there) because she worked for a General officer and had access to our CO that she didn’t like so my award recommendation for the Navy Lifesaving medal died on her desk.
Marines don’t expect awards but damn if they don’t get the shit end of the stick once the paperwork is in the hands of the officers appointed over them.

Response by SGT Robert Pryor made Nov 19 at 2020 4:22 AM

SGT Robert Pryor — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 04:22:54 -0500

Not that is matters at this late date, 1LT Voyle Smith, but I was the lowest ranking in my detachment, yet the highest decorated. Our Commanding Officer was the least decorated. I think it bolls down to leadership style. My CO was more interested in seeing his men recognize for their service than himself. To a man, we worshiped him and I would have gladly walked through the gates of Hell for that man. Oh wait, he was the Best Man at my wedding. I guess he would do anything for his men too.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Nov 19 at 2020 1:34 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:34:28 -0500

From 1980 to 1989 I received no personal awards. Just doing your job and earning a good performance evaluation was GOOD ENOUGH.

Imagine my surprise in SEP 1989, at my final active duty assignment for the COLD WAR, I received the Navy-Marine Corps Achievement Medal (NAM) for doing what I had always done: an exceptional job in every assignment.

I liked the minimalism of the Cold War Era. Later in the 1990s I saw the award-creep taking place.

In 1997 I had the NAM, National Defense, SWA Service Medal, and Kuwait Liberation Medal. I had a SSDR with one star, and a MUC.

Within 11 years when I retired I looked like a Turkish Admiral...with the above enumerated Awards & Citations...total of 17 awards.

The only recognition I am proud to have earned (since the NAM, and being promoted to O-5) is the Defense Meritorious Service Medal (DMSM) that was a peer recommendation for my tour of duty at GUANTANAMO BAY from 2006-2007. That’s the best recognition...a peer generated award for performance that was a capstone experience given the unusual levels of Congressional, DoD, and international media attention given our work in OARDEC.

Response by SGT William Cooper made Dec 4 at 2020 11:53 PM

SGT William Cooper — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 23:53:07 -0500

All I know is that MANY officers get their awards upgraded while enlisted get downgraded. They upgrade officers awards so their OER look good for promotion while they don’t give two shots about enlisted

Response by SGT Augusto Juarez made Dec 20 at 2020 1:24 PM

SGT Augusto Juarez — Sun, 20 Dec 2020 13:24:31 -0500

To prep them for civilian life, I suppose. You can grind all you want, but somebody else will take some credit for your labor. This is the way.

Response by SPC Robert Frizzell made Dec 28 at 2020 5:07 AM

SPC Robert Frizzell — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 05:07:03 -0500

So, that's a good question, I'll try to explain. Let's say your unit/squad is out on patrol, and you help some people in need. Because of this you get a unit service award, great. Because of that most of the time, everyone in your platoon/company get to ware that ribbon, but only while they are in that company. When they get transferred they can't ware it any more, only those that actually received the award can ware it always.

Now as for others like company commanders, battalion commanders, and all commanders up the food chain (chain of command) get to ware it also as long as nobody calls them out on it. For instance, a commanding general cam ware awards that anyone under his command receives except personal awards. That's why you will see officers that have a chest full of medals, most of which someone else earned. That's just one reason.

Another one is, as an example during Vietnam they would rotate officers in and out of country just so they could get service ribbons for being country. They were using different time in country requirements for officers than enlisted. All an officer had to do many times was have be "in" country for 3 day and they earned the ribbons while enlisted personal had to pull the full 6 months for a tour of duty. As an example, they would have a col. escorting a mail bag full of orders to command and be there for the return trip 5 days later, and he earned the ribbons. He gets to go back to his safe office and tell people he was "in" Vietnam. I hope this explains some things.

Edit

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2020 1:02 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 13:02:45 -0500

Probably has to do with that they are in command, and they take into consideration any and every choice made to make the mission/ objective complete.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made Dec 28 at 2020 3:28 PM

MSG Reid Zohfeld — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 15:28:28 -0500

The last Brigade I was in the Officer’s where top heavy I started noticing that the officer’s would spend about 15% of there week writing their OER Most Officers don’t care about what the does and only care about themselves You also notice that the Admin personal have more awards than most combat veterans I met a E5 admin soldier with 5 Years in having 5 1/2 rows of Bull shit ribbons I did ask how but as soon as I heard the B S I walked away The most handed out medal is the Bronze medal The officers have diminished the award Oh I sat in the FOB I most have one Screw the soldiers that went outside the wire
But just know that over half the ribbons you see on senior leaders our just them patting themselves on their backs

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2020 9:14 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 28 Dec 2020 21:14:43 -0500

In my experience enlisted soldiers receive a lot more awards than officers. Officers do tend to get higher awards which I don't think is unfair.

Response by SSG Hank Ortega made Dec 29 at 2020 12:44 PM

SSG Hank Ortega — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:44:56 -0500

A lot of it has to do with JR leadership simply not writing them up. In VN, a single SSG, took notes for every action we engaged in so that he could write up deserving soldiers. He would later (in his little green notebook) write up the entire citation, then give it to his LT, who’d sign it off. Then during resupply, he’d send it to the 1st SGT, who took it to the XO, an got it endorsed then ran it up to the SGM, who also hand carried it.
I couldn’t care less about an achievement medal or arcom, but a lot of valorous deeds went unawarded due to a failure of local leadership.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Dec 29 at 2020 7:20 PM

CPL Sharon Fahey — Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:20:05 -0500

We make them look good with the hard work we do. I don't have an issue with that. But what I do have issue with is the amount of crap they dish out and not once do they act appreciative. They're the machine and were the cogs, we move as one regardless. Big picture.

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Dec 31 at 2020 2:18 PM

SFC Lawrence Born — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 14:18:00 -0500

Here are to examples of this in my own career that were horrendous, but NOT unexpected. Both of these were while I was assigned to USAG Vicenza. First, and by far the worse of the two, occurred at the award ceremony for 173rd upon their redeployment. The father of one of my son's classmates, a SSG at this time, was recognized with a Bronze Star-V. The citation was read and it included his actions in an intense fire fight, his rendering aid to an injured soldier under fire etc. Immediately following that they issued a Bronze Star to a 1LT for "being stationed on the FOB that took the most fire in the sector" :( Personally, my experience was this. My assignment there began with me as an E5 and ended with me as an E6 in an E7 position. I was supposed to have 2 E4s assigned to me as well but had none....I worked in this position just short of 4 years. During this time I managed 31 page hand receipt with several million dollars worth of equipment on it, ran a non-appropriated fund with transactions exceeding $1,000,000 each year (including a perfect score on a GAO audit of the fund) and won the USAG Europe (IMA-E at the time) NCO of Year competition as an E5. When it came time for my ETS award (I ETSd and then came back) my boss put me in for an MSM. Due to the approving authority being a GO it had to go through SETAF. The SETAF G1 and our S1 offices were co-located. I had a buddy that worked in the S1 and as my ETS date approached I went to see him to check on it. He got up and went through an open door to ask the civilian douche that worked in the G1. That dude, not being able to see me from his desk said out loud "We don't give MSMs to piddly E6s" I stuck my head around the corner and said "WTF did you SAY!" He stammered a bit about SETAF policy before I stormed out. The Garrison CDR (a gym buddy and Mass buddy) called my boss to let him know what happened and apologize. He could do an ARCOM. As I no longer needed awards for promotion purposes (and already having 5 ARCOMs) I told them that they could keep it...... Given what I had done while assigned there I was incredibly insulted. BTW, on that same douches desk was a STACK of Bronze Stars for all of the O4/MSGs and above who had spent their entire last deployment on BAF/KAF.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2020 5:32 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 17:32:36 -0500

Wow.....it is always the Army.

Response by SPC Frank Lacy made Dec 31 at 2020 6:35 PM

SPC Frank Lacy — Thu, 31 Dec 2020 18:35:07 -0500

Most of the ones I've known deserve a ribbon for having their un-implanted.

Response by CPT Barry Naum made Jan 1 at 2021 10:39 PM

CPT Barry Naum — Fri, 01 Jan 2021 22:39:30 -0500

If every individual enlisted person compares themselves to a single officer, it will appear that officers get more awards. And by individual comparison, it certainly may be true; but overall, it isn't. The perception is deceiving, because it is just perception. In any given training or deployment cycle, a platoon leader may get an award, and those awards may stack up for that individual. But in the same cycle, how many awards are going to EMs? 5? More? Probably. That's a 5:1 ratio. Sure, CPL Smith doesn't have as many pretty ribbons as LT Jones, but collectively, the EM awards far outpace the officer awards.

Response by SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins made Jan 2 at 2021 1:10 AM

SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 01:10:52 -0500

I have never received less than an ARCOM for a deployment. However, on my first tour in AFG, I was literally asked by my PLT Sgt if I would be interested in a promo and an MSM (I was a squad leader at the time). We'd just arrived in theater. As far as I know, MSMs aren't normally awarded during deployments, I always thought it was the bronze star that was. But, I never saw an enlisted get a bronze star, only officers.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Jan 2 at 2021 8:14 AM

A1C Riley Sanders — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 08:14:51 -0500

SGT Cody voye:
Never gave this any thought,
possibly doing your job & try to be outstanding in what you do with out thinking of medals ,
work on being an example , sounds like you may be in a bit of a Rut which brings unhappy thoughts,
look to what makes you happy while serving your Country.
Thank-you
For your Service

Response by SGT Willy Stanker made Jan 2 at 2021 3:31 PM

SGT Willy Stanker — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 15:31:04 -0500

Ive sat in an office before and watched officers write out their own awards. Ive been there when someone walked in and mentioned to them that so and so needed their awards submitted by cob. Half the time the command wants to give officer something for nothing and asks them to turn in paperwork prior to the end of deploynent, training, etc. Hell, I didnt even get all my good conducts and didnt have any issues. Officer get bronze stars for wiping their own ass.

Response by TSgt David Whitmore made Jan 2 at 2021 4:55 PM

TSgt David Whitmore — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 16:55:57 -0500

The only time I actually received a medal for work I did was at my retirement ceremony... Because I wrote the draft for it. At the insistence of my supervisor who told that if I wanted one I needed to "write down all the stuff I did over the past year". He also informed me that he was not going to write up my final annual performance report as he was not going to give top marks on any part of it; mainly because his impression of my position was that I was extraneous, a total waste of desk space. He told me that the DOD regulations I was attempting to follow were a waste of time, in his opinion.
I had had other officers as supervisors who, while complimenting me on my work ethic and ability to do more than anyone should reasonably expect someone to do while working outside of my official duties, also expected that I write up my own medals and awards and they would sign them off. All while raising three children (two of which were 'special needs') as a single parent.

18 months after I retired, two of my old supervisors contacted me, asking if I had kept copies of the reports and the database I had designed. When I said no, and that I had turned the classified HDD and all supporting paperwork over to the COMSEC folks as ordered to... The one said "Shit!" I had to remind them that it would have been illegal for me to keep any of that project's paperwork and/or software copies of Classified material; even if nobody knew I had it.Then he told me that six months after I retired, the Air Force handed down a directive that Base-Level Network Control Centers were required to have records of every comm circuit and network connection on the base including diagrams of that circuit/connection and were they could be found on the Base. The very thing I had been spending the past seven years doing; and which was 90+% complete when I retired. And which they thought was an unnecessary waste of time. And which they were now close to 10% complete with three people working full time just on that project. And, they had failed their last (yearly) IG inspection. I was almost sad for them.

Response by SSG Ken Potts made Jan 2 at 2021 6:20 PM

SSG Ken Potts — Sat, 02 Jan 2021 18:20:14 -0500

Rank has it's privileges, there is no way an officer could ever receive the same award as a private. Either the officer gets a higher award or the private gets nothing. Sometimes the officer get an award and the private gets nothing.

Response by CPT Kevin Cromwell made Jan 3 at 2021 11:29 AM

CPT Kevin Cromwell — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 11:29:59 -0500

I don't find it the case. After over 20 years in the Army, I found senior enlisted had as many awards as senior officers. Most platoon servants have more awards than there platoon leaders. Most 1dt Sergants have more awards than their company commanders. Most CSM's have more awards than the BN Cdr. I don't see the problem.

Response by MAJ Pam Swartz made Jan 3 at 2021 3:00 PM

MAJ Pam Swartz — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:00:01 -0500

i am a retired major nurse corp, find in not good to not give any the rank the same award if the requirements were met.

Response by SFC Charles Kauffman made Jan 3 at 2021 8:11 PM

SFC Charles Kauffman — Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:11:03 -0500

I was a senior NCO for a unit in Iraq during OIF 1and 2 , and towards the end of the deployment, at a staff meeting, the leaders were told that we had authorized 2BSM’s, x-amount of ARCOMs, etc. I chimed in that I hadn’t seen anyone do anything that warranted a BSM. One of the butt-hurt officers said “That’s easy for you to say, because you already have one”. I don’t know who ended up getting what, because I was medevac’d out shortly after that. I ended up receiving two ARCOM’s w/device later through distribution for simply doing my job. What a waste of an award that could have gone to a junior soldier to help with a promotion packet later.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jan 4 at 2021 12:36 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Mon, 04 Jan 2021 00:36:11 -0500

All jokes aside everyone knows without a shadow of a doubt that there is not one single officer that could’ve gotten anything without the help of his or Her enlisted subordinates. Whether anyone deserves a certain metal or not in the long run no one cares. Because who in their right mind will walk around in the civilian sector once they are discharge bragging about the metals on their uniform? If there was one bit of reality in that movie Transformers, Shia Lebeau character was trying to get a job and he kept pointing to the fact that he was a water a metal by President Barack Obama but in each interview none of those CEOs cared . In fact the one company when he told the CEO that he got an award by President Barack Obama the CEO looked at him and said we’re all Republicans here so that’s a (no)and checked off some box on a paper he had in front of him. Very few people are going to ask you did you get a metal for blowing up a bunker are gunning down enemies in a machine gun position, no one in their right mind is going to go around telling stories like that even if it’s true awards only look good on uniforms and when you live in a country that so plural if you did go around telling see stories in some bar or restaurant most likely you will have people of the same culture that you just fight against sitting in the same restaurant eating dinner and they might’ve had a relative that died in the same conflict. Soda actually upgrade and award just on the sheer fact that one of the officer our master sergeant and then officer Master Sergeant except that a war knowing they don’t deserve it speaks of the character and what you can expect of the individual once they get out in the civilian world, if they turn a blind eye now they will do it in the civilian sector which is not good so the company they end up working for.

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Jan 6 at 2021 8:08 AM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Wed, 06 Jan 2021 08:08:29 -0500

I don't think it's limited to Army. The Air Force has, or at least had, the same toxic culture toward enlisted when I was on active duty. Several times I had Company grade officers get awards for my work. I had the last laugh, when I got out I took more than 50% of the practical experience with me and the awards for successful mission accomplishment suddenly stopped. At this point in life I no longer care about the awards or the recognition, I just want all the money the VA denied in the 17 years it took between when I was put out for a disability and the time the VA finally approved it.

Response by SPC Ramon Cruz made Jan 7 at 2021 5:54 PM

SPC Ramon Cruz — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:54:33 -0500

I was a SP4 Senior Medic in Korea, over a SSG, a few Sgts, a couple of PFC's and some KATUSA's. I was selected by our CW2 PA due to experience and skills. He put me in for an ARCOM for a couple of emergency situations I handled, one as a PFC. Then he DEROS'ed and it was downgraded to an AAM, i was told because I wasn't an NCO and ARCOM's were for E-5 and above. This was part of the reason I didn't re-up.

Response by SSG Patrick O'Flaherty made Jan 22 at 2021 12:35 PM

SSG Patrick O'Flaherty — Fri, 22 Jan 2021 12:35:33 -0500

It's always been the way. Furthermore it seems to me officers have a guaranteed career path with time to gain advanced degrees. That's how I perceived it. I wasn't interested in rank too much because I was in a Long Range Surveillance Detachment most of my career and rank was difficult to get because there were so few slots.

Response by SGT Josh Johnson made Jan 25 at 2021 3:17 PM

SGT Josh Johnson — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 15:17:40 -0500

Awards go a long way toward promotion points. Officers and senior NCOs are considered to be career soldiers, the awards give them a leg up when it comes to attaining the needed amount of points to progress along their career. Lower enlisted will get their chance, if they become a career soldier. Senior NCOs have usually maxed out on award points by the time that they reach E8 or E9.

Also, think about this. There was once situation where I (not just me alone, of course) had to take out some BMPs and tanks, en route to set up an ambush. As a Specialist I received an ARCOM for this engagement. My gunner (in the BC seat), a SSG received an ARCOM with a V device. My platoon Sergeant (he was our BC) received a bronze star, and the platoon leader received a silver star.
Now, I (actually, we, as there was more than one BFV involved) knew what to do, and managed to take down some enemy armor with our 25mm chain gun. My SSG, was spotting, and helped guide me in. My platoon Sergeant was at a commander's meeting, along with the platoon leader. I did the work, so I should get the big award, right? Wrong! I trained, I trained, I trained, in my job, and the job above me. I did what I was supposed to do. My gunner, did the same, he knew the job above him, and did well. Also, he trained me to do his job. He did more for that engagement than I did, because he not only trained himself, he trained me, so he gets a bigger award. My platoon Sergeant, although absent at the time of engagement, was responsible for the training of the entire platoon. His entire platoon did a thing, because he trained them well. So, he gets an even bigger award. The platoon leader, although very new in his career (and absent from the engagement), was responsible for the strategic placement of our troops, the dissemination of information, and overall responsible for the entire platoon. His leadership set the stage for a successful engagement of his platoon. He deserves an even bigger reward.
Ask yourself, how do you fight? Lower enlisted fight by shooting, using the training that they were provided. As you go up in rank, in the NCO support channel, it gets more complicated. A Sergeant, fights by shooting and maneuvering, but he also fights by using the lower enlisted on his team/squad, and therefore must train them to fight, as well as himself. SSG fights with maneuvering and shooting, but also maneuvers an entire section. A platoon sergeant and entire platoon leader will use the entire platoon to fight (and they might fight personally, themselves). But, the biggest weapon that the PL and PS have, is their platoon. The difficulty of using your assets to fight, becomes more difficult as you progress in rank. It is easy to use your weapon to fight (even in the face of certain death), compared to having to figure out how to send your entire platoon at them (it's takes strategy and intel, and experience).

Response by 1SG Steven Malkowski made Jan 27 at 2021 12:13 PM

1SG Steven Malkowski — Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:13:30 -0500

I've been on both sides of this issue, enlisted and commissioned. I had some AD time in Germany and got the standard ASR, OSR awards. Went into the Guard and got awards as an enlisted soldier. Then I got commissioned and didn't receive one award for the ten years I was an officer. Once I reverted back to enlisted, I started getting awards again. So my experience pre 9/11 was that enlisted got awards and officers didn't. Wartime changed that. I went on a peacekeeping deployment (MFO) as an Engineer Platoon Sergeant. We were attached to an Infantry Battalion. My understrength (15 soldiers) platoon completed 19 major force protection and comfort missions as well as infrastructure repair and replacement in 6 months. I put half my platoon in for ARCOMs and AAMs. I felt I deserved an AAM or ARCOM for leading this bastard crew and getting all those missions accomplished with little higher command support. We got a total of 0 (ZERO) awards other than what everyone got for the mission. One 2LT in the IN BN got an ARCOM for teaching a college class on the deployment that he wasn't qualified to teach. When the rest of my Engineer Battalion got back from an Iraq deployment, the officers got major awards (BSM, ARCOM, AAM). Enlisted soldiers got Letters of Commendation. One EM who saved his convoy from an enemy assault by the effective employment of his machine gun while under heavy enemy fire (should have gotten a BSM with V at least) got an AAM. Go figure.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2021 10:54 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 10:54:12 -0500

why are officers punished more harshly for the same crimes as enlisted?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2021 5:25 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 17:25:01 -0500

The problem is the people that approve the awards know officers on a first name basis, usually. The Battalion Commander picks where his Lieutenants and some of his Captains go, so he's familiar with what the officer's done and can put a face to a name. An E1 or E4 is probably a name on a spreadsheet for a BC, though so unless it's something that blows their socks off, they probably won't notice or "think it's good enough." It's pretty annoying to put in the effort to get your dudes awards and them get kicked back because officers aren't getting awards, so why should a private that did twice as much work?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2021 7:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2021 19:23:25 -0500

I was an awards clerk in Afghanistan from 2011-2012. I processed an unimaginable amount of awards. I can confirm it was unwritten but strictly enforced. If you were E6 and below you got an ARCOM, Period. If you were E7 or 01 and above, it did not matter what you did, you got a BSM. This isn't even a mild exaggeration...

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 8 at 2021 11:58 AM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 11:58:43 -0500

I seem to remember something about not using grade or position for personal benefit. Seems like it should apply here....

Response by SSG George Duncan made Feb 8 at 2021 5:52 PM

SSG George Duncan — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 17:52:52 -0500

because they file the paper work

Response by SP5 Charles Willoughby made Feb 10 at 2021 9:26 PM

SP5 Charles Willoughby — Wed, 10 Feb 2021 21:26:49 -0500

Former MACV SOG. LTC's would get a silver for flying over ground action and EM's would get a bronze for on the ground action. Understood that the officers who were assigned short time needed to get a medal for promotion. EM'S got a feel good and bragging rights in the club. Most MOH's went to EM's.

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Feb 21 at 2021 5:01 PM

SFC Craig Titzkowski — Sun, 21 Feb 2021 17:01:04 -0500

I think as a retired Army SFC that awards are handed out too easy. I think you should get an award when you have done something above and beyond the normal scope of your duties assigned. I was taught that AAM is more like you changed something or improved something at company level that made accomplishing a mission better. Then the ARCOM was when you did something at battalion level and it was noticed by many and you change the way things happen at battalion or higher. The MSM was the answer to the BSM to be a peace time award because the BSM is a war time medal. I think the MSM is an Accumulative metal and can be for a single action this must almost certainly change the way people do business at many levels and benefit the military in many ways. BSM read one and you know why someone receives one. Now in the resent past do I think the medals have been diminished by the new culture of everyone gets an award and rank has say on the level of the award in the army. I do a lot of awards are deserved and had work went into getting them and the people that earn awards generally could care less they are just doing their job. So in saying that. I never worried about rank money and awards I just wanted to be the best soldier I could be and serve my fellow soldier. The rank and medals showed up. I earned 20 different medals and ribbons and with in those ribbon I had 53 awards. I never ware my ribbons until my last duty station in the Army the CSM had a thing about payday uniform wearing well the wife calls that's it

Response by SGT Richard H. made Feb 24 at 2021 5:31 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:31:36 -0500

My experience isn't very recent, but as SGT, I had almost twice as many ribbons/medals as my last Company Commander.

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Mar 7 at 2021 6:22 PM

LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 18:22:03 -0500

I was enlisted from 1972 until 1977 and joined the USARNG in 1978 for 9 months. When I left active duty I had 2 awards - NDSM and AGCM - while in the Guard I received the OSR, NCOPDR, and ASR. I understand a soldier's understanding of the system. Once I commissioned I observed that the majority of awards went to full-timers and officers. When I became a HHC Company Commander I instructed my Lieutenants to look for note worthy deeds to award soldiers for accomplishing. Also, my first year in command I presented 23 awards at AT not one went to a full timer or an officer. I may have been guilty of having blinders on but I was determined to properly recognize my soldiers.

Response by SPC Michael Duricko, Ph.D made Mar 7 at 2021 10:52 PM

SPC Michael Duricko, Ph.D — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 22:52:59 -0500

Great point! To prove your point to a certain degree, as a Crew Chief in Vietnam, in an attack helicopter company, we flew a mission into heavy combat and when the skids bearly touched I left my mounted M-60 to go into the battle with just a 45 pistol which I wasn't able to fire since I had to literally pick up a soldier in my arms, who was half blown apart, and try and hold his body parts together while I was carrying him through the fire back to my chopper to put him on the floor, where my gunner helped strap what was left of him in, and we were back on our M-60s as we took off. When we were past the point of the firefight the pilot said to the co-pilot, over the intercom, that he was putting himself in for a Distinguished Flying Cross because he was the Officer in charge of Medals. Guess he and the co-pilot got their Medals and all I got were blood stained clothes and horrific memories for the rest of my life. Maybe that was what we can call politics in war, or to your point, why the brass took care of themselves, in my instance, and myself and my gunner literally got blood and guts.

Response by CPO Mark Weber made Mar 7 at 2021 11:53 PM

CPO Mark Weber — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 23:53:11 -0500

Their NCO'S or OFFICERS above them in their command either did not think they performed the proper task or in fact never recommend them for the award or medal.

Response by Cpl Michael Brewer made Mar 8 at 2021 5:07 PM

Cpl Michael Brewer — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 17:07:25 -0500

Bigger Ego's. More need for identity and self referencing. Vocational bling.

Response by Cpl Michael Brewer made Mar 8 at 2021 5:48 PM

Cpl Michael Brewer — Mon, 08 Mar 2021 17:48:19 -0500

I recall learning at a Marine Reunion for 1/7 Marines that only the officers got copies of our Presidential Unit Citations, 2 of them. Pretty big deal. It was General Mike Neil who brought copies for all of us.

Response by LTC Stephen Preston made Apr 4 at 2021 10:24 AM

LTC Stephen Preston — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 10:24:35 -0400

I am a former enlisted officer with 25 years of service. I am looking at the shadow box that my wife made for me at retirement. I served three years enlisted and received one AAM for an exercise that I participated in and was recognized for my contribution. Over the remaining 22 years, I received 13 awards. Many of those are end of tour awards, but several are for specific achievements. I always ensured my soldiers and officers were properly recognized. The only real award that was general was my legion of merit which is a common retirement award. Frankly, you may just not be a very exceptional soldier. That is what your question tells me.... Sorry.

Response by GySgt Keith Rininger made Apr 4 at 2021 9:23 PM

GySgt Keith Rininger — Sun, 04 Apr 2021 21:23:52 -0400

It's simple and learned it long ago. Most Officers don't give a damn about your achievements or your career if your enlisted. They do the bare minimum that they have to do as far as recognition, and if it makes them look good. It's the OPA...Officers Protective Association. You do something truly Outstanding, you may get a Achievement medal instead of an Commendation medal. Say you get an Commendation medal, well your OIC will get a Bronze Star. It completely sucks, is completely unfair and is just normally the way it is. Now some Officers are good and fair, most just play the game with future command in their eyes. I personally don't care, I've been retired 30 years. Probably get a lot of negative replies, and mostly from E-9 and above.

Response by 1SG Emil Dular made Apr 19 at 2021 11:56 AM

1SG Emil Dular — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:56:31 -0400

Every now and then justice is served. Many years ago I had a soldier who, because of a couple of breaks in service, retired as a Staff Sergeant. I went round and round with HQ over the level of his "retirement award" and lost. As a matter of policy, the Legion of Merit was out of the question for an enlisted soldier and he was not high ranking enough for a Meritorious Service Medal. At the retirement ceremony, the visiting three star came to the end, the lowest ranking retiree, my guy and noted they were wearing the same combat patch. Of all the awards the sergeant was wearing, the Purple Heart with the silver oak leaf cluster caught his eye and the General said, "Looks like they shot the hell out of you!" They talked a few minutes on people they both knew and places they had both been. They handed him the award, the General looked at the Army Achievement Medal, slowly raised his gaze to the Post Commander and said, "Is THAT the BEST we can do?"

Response by CPT Earl George made Apr 29 at 2021 9:53 PM

CPT Earl George — Thu, 29 Apr 2021 21:53:00 -0400

Things happen(for good or bad) True story. MY boss(MAJ) awaiting his orders sending him back to the states from Germany. He gets them one morning and as he walks pass my desk, says, " Earl, Put me in for the MSM." before he can take another step, I open my center drawer and take out a completed request for a MSM for him. He goes into his office were he finishes reading it and returns to my desk. "This is very well written, " he states. "By the way, put yourself in for an ARCOM." within a couple of seconds, I open my center drawer, and remove a completed request for an ARCOM for myself. He takes a quick look, calls me an SOB, smiles and continues walking towards his office. Bottom line. He received the MSM and I got an ARCOM.

Response by COL Bruce Brant made May 2 at 2021 6:28 PM

COL Bruce Brant — Sun, 02 May 2021 18:28:15 -0400

My father was in the Regular Army for 32 years, I was in for 30. The question on awards is complex and changing. My Dad, in WWII, fought in North Africa, Sicily, landed on Omaha Beach, and was severely wounded. For all that, he received a Purple Heart and some campaign ribbons. He was an LT. Think what he would have received today with three years of combat. In Vietnam, he commanded both a battalion and a brigade and got a LOM; no BS, Air Medals, etc. What determines the level of award is often the time, place, the command policy for awards at the time, the writing ability of the rater, but most importantly, the level of legal authority and responsibility as well as luck. A sergeant does not get relieved for a poor command climate but his company commander can be. Even the 1SG is not the legal commander, the captain is. Read AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, for an explanation of the difference in legal responsibility. That is why the battalion commander gets an MSM and his driver does not. Having said all that, no awards system, I’ve seen, is fair because human judgment is involved. But if you’re worried about awards, you’re worried about the wrong thing. Do your duty the best you can, every day

Response by SSG Bruce True made May 8 at 2021 3:04 PM

SSG Bruce True — Sat, 08 May 2021 15:04:42 -0400

Plus, some awards are politically motivated and its not what you know but who you know. Examples Legion of Merit should not rank higher that a Purple Heart. Another metal that has lost what it is meant for and is all what you known and not your merits or what you accomplished is the Bronze Star.

Response by SSG Bruce True made May 8 at 2021 3:06 PM

SSG Bruce True — Sat, 08 May 2021 15:06:53 -0400

Some metal are given to what their rank is according and are too over rated like the legion of Merit. The Bronze star has lost what it is intended for it not on merit but who you politically.

Response by SFC Juan Santiago made May 11 at 2021 4:43 PM

SFC Juan Santiago — Tue, 11 May 2021 16:43:38 -0400

That is a good question

Response by SGT Randall Smith made May 12 at 2021 8:54 AM

SGT Randall Smith — Wed, 12 May 2021 08:54:57 -0400

A couple of things here Cody. #1. A lot of awards come with the pain of being wounded. That sucks. 2. going before the promotion board and being recognized as a hard working and professional soldier is also an award. If not recognized as such you would not be there. 3. given the choice of a pretty ribbon that any one can get or a 3 day pass for outstand work, I always wanted the pass.
I knew of some men in Viet Nam that wanted medals and awards. Some put their troops in danger for their own advancement. They were not liked or trusted. No one had their back either.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made May 12 at 2021 1:35 PM

CPT Larry Hudson — Wed, 12 May 2021 13:35:04 -0400

Officer and NCOs have been trained to lead and protect the soldiers they are responsible for. It is they who say in combat, follow me. They are trained to analize situations and develope answers quickly.

Response by SGT Reuben Barrett made May 12 at 2021 4:05 PM

SGT Reuben Barrett — Wed, 12 May 2021 16:05:39 -0400

IMO - My ROTC at University and basic camp at Ft Knox (1985 so its old info) and Officers in my family again old info) - I learned Officers are employees of the government and can be fired and/ or if passed over for promotion three times you're out, resigning has different categories than it did in 1985 but it's about the same - Officers can be called back to service up to age 85. That being said - employees always get awards - I was also taught the enlisted were considered dependents of the government and as such could not be fired or removed simply by not getting promoted and had to promotion schedule. All the NCOs reading this - any new guys (after 1985) know if NOC's go to War College yet?
All comments welcome - especially those the update me from 1885 for example stop-loss did not start until 1990-91 - that was not a part of my service - enlisted had 6-year obligations, not 8, etc. and short terms had need such as the 2-year enlistment.

Response by PO2 Lon Hebert made May 16 at 2021 11:43 AM

PO2 Lon Hebert — Sun, 16 May 2021 11:43:10 -0400

when I was in Fed civil service. I went to awards ceremony I was working at Randolph afb. this major got a bronze star for coordinating getting supplies to the marines. I was so pissed my son at the time was a marine in Iraq in fajuallah he got his bronze star carrying a pack and a radio. he got his bronze star in combat not sitting at a desk. nothing against him but my son got his bronze star in combat on a radio they were under heavy fire called in air support. OORAH.

Response by PFC Jack Bramblett made May 16 at 2021 7:09 PM

PFC Jack Bramblett — Sun, 16 May 2021 19:09:28 -0400

First of all: WHAT DOES IT MATTER? So what, an officer gets an award and you don't....wah wah wah. What are you in the military for? To get medals and awards or serve your country. What a snowflake. If you went in to get medals and awards then you should have gone to school to get a degree to become an officer and then you can worm your way around and get those coveted no big deal awards. Give me a freaking break. What the hell is wrong with people today. It's all about me me me. You cannot serve your country well if you are only concerned about me. Military is team work and if you are not into that then don't go in or if you are in, get out you big crybaby. You're not a man, you're a snowflake. Melt away under the heat and grow up.

Response by COL Hugh Stirts made May 17 at 2021 2:34 PM

COL Hugh Stirts — Mon, 17 May 2021 14:34:45 -0400

I tend to agree that officers seem to get more awards (and I'm a Colonel). Combat soldiers also get more awards, and they should! And being a commander also influences awards (unless one gets relieved....which never happened to me!!)

Response by SSG Russell Busicchia made May 20 at 2021 12:04 PM

SSG Russell Busicchia — Thu, 20 May 2021 12:04:35 -0400

I served for 20 years and received every award from the Meritorious Service Medal and below. Yes, there is a hierarchy but that is true of any organization. When I left SHAPE I received the Joint Commendation Medal. My OIC actually apologized because I did not get the Joint Meritorious Service Medal.because my predecessor got the JMSM and everyone knew I did more than she did. We just had a change of command and the new commander had a different attitude on awards. While there is at least a tendency to give awards by rank if you write a good award it will be awarded.

Response by Capt Henry Heater made May 22 at 2021 2:23 PM

Capt Henry Heater — Sat, 22 May 2021 14:23:49 -0400

I do not know whether it is factually true that officers receive more awards. In the Air Force, testing played a large role in enlisted promotion. Officer promotion, instead, relied solely on performance reports, and time in grade. With inflation of performance report ratings, awards (AF Commendation at company grade, and AF Meritorious Service awards) became the only way to separate out superior officer performance. That may explain in part any difference in numbers; officers may have had more of a career need for medals. . Whenever I met an E8, I did not need to see his or her ribbons to know that he had performed superbly throughout his career. When I met a young colonel, his ribbons explained the below-the-zone promotion.

Response by Col Jonathan Brazee made Jun 6 at 2021 9:08 PM

Col Jonathan Brazee — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 21:08:34 -0400

The award system is broken.

For meritorious awards, it makes sense that officers receive more than enlisted because the award criteria are generally written so that an important aspect is the effect of the awardee's action have on the unit, and an officer's actions generally have more effect on a unit than an enlisted serviceman's (although SNCOs can have a big impact, too). If a regiment does an outstanding job of preparing for deployment, that is generally put on the CO, XO, SgtMaj, and a few other higher ranks than on a lance corporal who had an excellent junk-on-the-bunk.

However, for awards of valor, no one can convince me that officers should earn more by their conduct in combat. It's the junior enlisted that face the greatest danger and in greater numbers. A fair system would have far more awards for valor for E-3s than O-3s (except possibly for the Air Force where a higher percentage of trigger pullers are officers, or in their case, pilots).

The Marine Corps does a better job in that than the other services. Enlisted Marines get more awards for valor than officers. But I don't think the ratio reflects the reality of officers and enlisted in the Corps. I believe that more enlisted receive awards for valor than officers only because there are far more enlisted in the Corps than officers.

Response by SPC Tamara Trammell made Jun 13 at 2021 3:13 AM

SPC Tamara Trammell — Sun, 13 Jun 2021 03:13:49 -0400

It's not just you or 'seems to me.' It's recognized fact. You don't have to go far down Military History rabbit holes before civilians point it out, too. Officers receive military recognition disproportionate to their accomplishments and efforts when compared to enlisted. In my studies (and experience) the generally recognized cause is a combination of the anachronistic tradition of classism that clings to the military and the bias of officers deciding who gets (most) awards.

Unless you want to get mired down with political bullshit, don't pay much attention to official awards.

Response by SGT Alan Dike made Jun 17 at 2021 8:26 PM

SGT Alan Dike — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 20:26:11 -0400

I once heard LTC Yarmy say nobody the rank of PFC or below has ever earned an AAM.

Seriously.. Dude had his Ranger tab and was in charge of a signal Bde. I guess he never heard of PFC Leonard Kravitz, a Congressional Medal of Honor awardee. I don't know his justification for said opinion, but the fact that at least half a dozen PFC's got AAM's the next FTX would indicate his opinion wasn't very well backed up by reality.

I never understood how a SSG could award 3-4 ARCOMS to their team, hardly work any shifts or touch the equipment, who had to be trained on the equipment by their subordinates.. and get a bronze star...

Response by SGM Michael Taylor made Jun 23 at 2021 2:52 AM

SGM Michael Taylor — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 02:52:04 -0400

When received my 10th ARCOM as a young E5, my BDE CSM said I should not be recognized for my achievements any longer. But to answer your question, enlisted are perhaps recognized less often than commissioned soldiers because most NCOs cannot write. “He dun good” is not the good enough, lol!

Response by 1SG Clyde Kessler made Jun 25 at 2021 6:40 PM

1SG Clyde Kessler — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 18:40:50 -0400

I was a 1SGT of a unit in Vietnam and was automatically awarded the Bronze Star when I rotated. It was the policy of the organzitation that I was assigned, which had smaller units all over Vietnam, to give the BS to every 1SGT when they left in country. I feel that I deserved the medal but we had one 1SGT that had been 1SGT of 3 different units and was awarded a BS for each assignment. That I think was excessive.

Response by PO1 Ken Helmick made Jun 28 at 2021 8:51 AM

PO1 Ken Helmick — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:51:36 -0400

Honestly? It's pretty simple and obvious -- a lot of officers have a built-in attitude that being enlisted is pretty much defacto evidence that the individual is less capable and, therefore, must not be as deserving. I think this really hit home when I was in the reserves and tried to get a direct commission after receiving my degree. I jumped through all the hoops, as did a friend of mine from school, who had no prior service whereas I was SELRES. Now, we went to the same school, I had a significantly higher GPA, I was an E-5 with a very solid record ... and they selected the guy with no track record and less impressive credentials. I was later privately counseled that being enlisted actually worked against me. There is also the "Old Boys Network" ... it's pretty clear that officers will approve higher awards for one another since it is a path to promotion -- the same is true of enlisted but the officers rarely have the same personal connection and, therefore, interest. Honestly, this isn't just an officer versus enlisted thing ... I noticed chief petty officers getting higher awards than lower enlisted who were much more deserving. The solution seems pretty straightforward, that would be to have senior enlisted approve awards for enlisted personnel. Of course, that would require the officer corps to give up a modicum of control and, in the history of the world, how often does that happen?

Response by PO2 Michael Henry made Jun 29 at 2021 11:00 AM

PO2 Michael Henry — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:00:50 -0400

I didn't get any individual awards but there were a couple of instances I should have got one. However they involved breaking multiple rules, silence would have been the better part of valor at the time. Since I am out and no Admiral is going to make me come back to face the music (see below). Also a lot of NAM's, on my ship, were handed out for pure BS like making sure a particular space or P-way did well on a zone inspection or similar, got a NAM, was enough to actually tell my command to don't bother if this is what it's being handed out for.

We had a power supply that kept going down on deployment and it caused a chain reaction that caused our weapons system to not properly work, exposing half of an aircraft carrier. We couldn't get a new part to replace it, so we had to make due. When it went down, we would have to climb the aft tower on the flight deck (CVN-75 for reference) go into a particular space way off the flight deck, clear the fault and bring it back up. This required a lot of safety gear and most was owned by another division and required signing out. For about a few weeks, the part would go down, we found our safety equipment was in a space locked and no way of contacting them. Time was of the essence because if Combat found out... then the CAPT... then the Rear ADM... bad day. We would normally have to go to flight deck and enter the Big Door to speak with Airmen who have been going for 16 hours straight and Flight Ops isn't over yet to get permission to bring up a weapons system. No amount of strong coffee would bring them around to reality. They would try to deny it because of flight ops... we told them what the problem is and what would happen if not allowed... still clueless. It got to the point were we were considering ignoring them outright and moving on. Finally, now our gear was secured by a brother division with no one available to open the door. We had no better alternative and I volunteered to climb the ladder with no gear, also a sitting duck for any flight deck rover. I made the climb at 0100 for several nights and it was dark, wet and slick on that ladder and I had no gloves. I made the climb up and down that ladder, successfully bringing the system online and each night having to move a big pile of scrap metal oddly enough stacked straight up like it's a bunch of spikes by same flight deck personnel. We had informed them of the fact we must have a clear path to that ladder at all times and why. Having to move that much scarp metal and staying quiet the whole time was putting me and the others on watch fairly nervous to say the least. Obviously this was all hush hush because we didn't want to take a chance of this being leaked and command finding out. I can only imagine the potential list of "charges" if pushed, 11 years ago.

Response by LTC Anthony Monroe made Jun 29 at 2021 12:32 PM

LTC Anthony Monroe — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 12:32:12 -0400

Because they have great people working for them

Response by SP5 John Burleson made Jun 29 at 2021 12:52 PM

SP5 John Burleson — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 12:52:33 -0400

Medals Schmedals. The preeminent medal story for me was the stay-puffed marshmallow LTC who demanded respect at the weasel hearing a few months ago 'cuz he got a purple heart in Iraq. The fat
bastard's purple heart was for a PAPER CUT from filling out the forms following a brief encounter with a rock-throwing kid. I used to remember this jerk's name so if he decided he had the authority to lead me into battle he'd need a lot of Preparation H. I understand brave warriors fought for this idiot and I deep respect them for what they did. But as far as that idiot goes....

Response by MSG Jim Martin made Jun 29 at 2021 8:58 PM

MSG Jim Martin — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 20:58:18 -0400

This is a wide reaching topic, you could also ask why Academy Graduates get promoted faster then ROTC or OCS candidates. Or why a certain MOS or group of MOS's get promoted or awards in greater numbers. There is no real answer. I think someone that loves this country and wants to serve does not worry about recognition. I have the same feeling when donating to the V.A or Disabled Vet organizations. Take the donation and keep the blanket. (Ok, I went on a tangent, but there are so many things to be said about awards, and I think it was covered by everybody)

Response by MAJ Pete Joplin made Jun 29 at 2021 9:26 PM

MAJ Pete Joplin — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 21:26:19 -0400

It has already been answered, and it was scoffed at by enlisted men. My answer will be scoffed at by enlisted men because I am an officer, and irrespective of my enlisted service.
But here it is: awards at increasing levels of authorization, require impact at increasing levels within our services. An Achievement Medal issued by an O-5 expects less impact on our service, and at lower echelons, than that of the Commendations or Meritorious Service Medals, and so on. The awards earned and conferred on Soldiers is a matter of opportunity to impact upon our Service, our Nation, and indeed, the international World. There were no enlisted personnel around when I helped CENTCOM, the Corps of Engineers, and the Kuwaiti Ministry of the Interior negotiate the cost of Camp Arifjan below $200 Million. Therefore, that particular Joint Services Commendation went to an Officer, and not an enlisted man.
Finally, I will point out that 77% of all Medals of Honor have been awarded to enlisted men.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2021 11:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jun 2021 23:52:48 -0400

I have to say that your question is a fair one. However, I have a better bit of advice. Get yourself a “good” Mentor. Preferably a Master Sergeant or above. Concentrate on Career Progression accolades you will need to achieve to advance. Things such as a TRADOC assignment, Drill, Recruiting, NCOS, skill badges, etc…. You know, stuff you can control and do something with. You can’t control whether you get presented an award. Don’t let your heart dwell on such things as awards. Regardless of what some have stated in here, the system is as it appears. All of it. From awards to Climate Surveys to the actual implementation of the METL. It’s all a numbers game. It’s up to you to learn how to navigate it. As you advance through the ranks and experience more varieties duty assignments, you’ll understand that better. We can go round and round about how Bronze Stars are handed out to LTs for breathing in a combat zone (and yes, we’ve all seen it happen) or you can invest your time and energy into what really counts for you. If you plan to make this a career, which I believe that 8 years in you may, check out EOD and other advanced assignments. That should be up your alley and it will get you where you want to go. Hang in there. Keep your head up. Make real plans. Move forward.

Response by 1stSgt Bill Clark made Jun 30 at 2021 11:38 AM

1stSgt Bill Clark — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:38:16 -0400

Let me put this in a way that is blunt, direct and accurate. Officers receive higher recognition for the same actions as enlisted personnel because, let’s face it, Officers have a more difficult time accomplishing the same task. Find me a 2Lt that can walk and chew gum at the same time without suffocating themselves, I’ll show you a 2Lt that’s time for an award and promotion. Show me a PFC doing the same thing and I’ll show you a guy doing his damnedest to stay out of the 2Lt’s line of fire while avoiding the wrath of the 1sgt. Seriously, rank comes with responsibility. The higher the rank, the higher the responsibility and the higher the level
If reward for carrying out that responsibility. If you don’t like the way it is, make damn sure you do
It differently when you get to the top.

Response by Sgt Frank Staples made Jun 30 at 2021 4:12 PM

Sgt Frank Staples — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 16:12:34 -0400

I've often wondered why the pilot of an aircraft gets a higher award than his crew...they ALL shared the same risk.

Response by SFC Mark Bailey made Jun 30 at 2021 7:12 PM

SFC Mark Bailey — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 19:12:43 -0400

In early 2003 I was recommended for a Legion of Merit.

The recommending officer, an O-6, wrote it up and had a strong set of statements for excellence to back it up from multiple other Senior NCO's and Officers from O-4 to O-7.

It was signed off by an O-7 and sent for final approval of an O-8. I was later told that my award packet for the Legion of Merit was one of the stronger award recommendations people had seen.

The O-8 downgraded it to a Meritorious Service Medal and wrote under his downgrade
"NCO's do not deserve a Legion of Merit, these should only go to Officers"

As I was presented the award in front of my entire Brigade, my Commanding Officer leaned in and apologized saying "we tried everything to get this through right up to this morning, the General refuses to sign it ..... You deserve so much better."

Response by PO1 Tod Jackson made Jul 1 at 2021 6:50 AM

PO1 Tod Jackson — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 06:50:04 -0400

Great read here. To a point the same goes on in the squid world.

Response by MSgt John Geruso made Jul 1 at 2021 7:21 PM

MSgt John Geruso — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 19:21:22 -0400

Because enlisteds make them look GREAT. We less than commissioned have to do something above board to get recognized. Just the was it was and it appears, still is.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Jul 1 at 2021 8:19 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 20:19:39 -0400

The DSM is the General Officer's ARCOM. The Bronze Star was considered a combat award at one time but without the V it's a glorified ARCOM. The entire awards system, E thru O, is confusing at best. When I completed my VN tour (USMC), I came home with 4 ribbons. Recent grads of basic training have that many. Awards have always been "top heavy", I doubt that will change. Officers need them for promotions. With the exception of true combat awards (MH, DSC, SS, PH and campaign medals), maybe enlisted/officer awards should be completely different in design.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2021 2:18 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 02:18:54 -0400

Any new officer can stand in [overseas country] for 6 months to a year and get a minimum bronze star. The brass likes to act like there are a limited number of ribbons. Good leadership will realize that awards help look after your soldiers and help them get promoted. All of the good units I deployed with gave a mandatory award of some kind to all based on performance and responsibility. You had to really screw up to get nothing and even then you got a COA.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Jul 2 at 2021 12:05 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 12:05:21 -0400

During Vietnam, officers scrambled to get the "ticket punched" by being in a combat zone. I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with that - it is afterall a competative profession.
That said, officers also have a LOT more responsibility. If they do their jobs well, and if subordinates don't do anything stupid that gets the officer relieved (at any level), they bear a bigger weight on their shoulders in that respect also. Let's face it, a bad NCO (or junior officer), if not dealt with prmptly, can cost a supervising officer a LOT.
Stands to reason they get more recognition - more responsibility; more recognition, good OR bad.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2021 3:35 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:35:00 -0400

Honestly it's part of the culture in the Army to do it... I see a lot of it isn't that big of a deal but to young soldiers grinding out points in the US Army it is a big deal. I'm not saying give them away but enlisted soldiers definitely are not given awards that often. Shouldn't be that hard to look at the facts and maybe take that into consideration next time you see a young enlisted soldier going above and beyond.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2021 7:03 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 19:03:52 -0400

My observation of why officers receive more or higher awards is two reasons, they have other people writing the awards for them and based on their rank, they have more responsibility

The first is an issue for lower and some upper enlisted. I observed during my time in that most lower and many upper NCOs did not know how to effectively write awards. Reading many of the awards proposals that I received, they typically either listed duties that are normal and expected without showing how they were above average or made claims that were not substantiated by the person's actual actions.
The second part of the first issue is lower and upper NCOs have to get buy in from their chain of command. If an E-4 writes an award for another E-4 and his supervisor doesn't support it, doesn't believe the actions are worthy of an AAM or ARCOM, it will have difficulty going further. While the E-4 could go to the next level above his supervisor, if they agree it doesn't meet standards for an award, it is likely going nowhere.
If the E-4 instead went to his chain of command and got buy in from his Platoon Sergeant, the Platoon Sergeant would likely speak in favor of it to the 1SG, there is a much better chance that the Company CDR and BN CDR will support it.

Response by 1stSgt Sam Damewood made Jul 2 at 2021 7:20 PM

1stSgt Sam Damewood — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 19:20:29 -0400

It depends on wither they are awards for actually doing something, or an award for being there.
Actual accomplishments, exhibitions of valor and the like are pretty evenly awarded
By the time I retired in 2004, I refused to wear 3/4 of the decorations as they were meaningless.
And no, none of them had the nerve to call me on it either.

Response by SPC Mark Stevens made Jul 3 at 2021 2:43 AM

SPC Mark Stevens — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 02:43:30 -0400

I did just under 8 years of active duty before getting out as an E-4(P) due to a change in the rules and a RIF under President Clinton. I messed up my first 2 years in, and paid royal Hades to earn the chance to make it right, but I managed to get 3 different awards during my service (AAM, ARCom, and a Bronze Star during Desert Storm). I don't know about other units, so I'm not going to speculate. I got my fair share, maybe even a little more so. But it seems to me if you're spending energy worrying about the fruit salad someone else is wearing, it's energy you don't have to concentrate on earning your own. I did the job first, and worried about all the other shtuff after the smoke cleared. But I never once asked for or even considered I might get an award for any of it.

Response by Lt Col Norman Cannon made Jul 3 at 2021 9:46 PM

Lt Col Norman Cannon — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 21:46:47 -0400

There are a lot of interesting thoughts in the comments. As someone who had experience in both the Army and Air Force awards systems, I have opinions and thoughts as well regarding this issue. To start, I will say that I also believe there are real flaws and inequities in the types and amounts of awards given to officers and enlisted.

Before I say what I think may contribute to it or how we might address it, I should first say that the comment that there are a lot of officers responding to reasons why officers get more or better awards implies that officers should have no right to an opinion on this issue, and/or implies that all officers would only advocate to continue a system that seems to benefit us. If that's what is meant by that comment, it is unfair, ignorant of the issues involved, and stereotypes officers.

I would like to see actual stats on the types and amounts of awards, but on the surface I think the idea that officers generally get awardsore often is probably valid. I think one big culprit is the concept of end of tour or PCS awards. In most services, from what I can tell, existed are often allowed to stay in one unit and/or location for many years longer than officers. Officers, by nature of the roles and positions they must fill, rotate more often in general. Officers normally change positions every 1 to 3 years. For an officer to remain in one position for 3 years often poses a problem for their future promotions. So officers will end up getting more PCS awards because they rotate more often. I have known enlisted who have stayed in the same unit for 6 or 7 years, and because they didn't rotate combined with a chain of command who doesn't recognize awards for specific achievements or projects (including the idea of impact awards), those people rarely saw awards.

Comvine that with chains of Command who are so stuck on the PCS award idea that they would rather give a "letter of continuity" to a person's next unit if that person were PCa'ing instead of PCS'ing. I ran into this issue both as a junior and a senior officer. As a lieutenant I served 2 full years as a Platoon Leader, accomplishing some strong achievements and recognition with my team as a "best in USAREUR" platoon in our field by inspectors. Yet when I moved to another unit but stayed locally after 2 years, since I wasn't PCS'ing, I only got a letter toward my next PCS award from next unit. The very flawed concept and explanation was that it will make next award stronger and net me an even higher award. I knew when that was said.it was a cop out. In.my next unit I accomplished some even stronger achievements, garnering coins from 2 and 3 star leaders and implementation of a practice I started locally to be done across USAREUR. When it was time to PCS, my boss actually put me in for a Meritorious Service Medal as a 1LT given the strength of what I'd done across those 3 years in 2 roles with no recognition so far. The commander downgraded it to a Commendation with a rationale that it would never get approved for a 1LT, especially since I didn't have any other awards yet. So not getting a previous award actually hurt me for future awards. The letter of continuity did nothing, and I got the same award for 3 years that I would have gotten for both the 1 and 2 year roles. I explain to say that I think that's the kind of thing that happens a lot to enlisted, especially of they are not completely PCS'ing. Commanders will, at best, except 8n rare circumstances, consider your work done for anyone other than their unit. I always recommend to award people now for what they've done for you, even if it's only an acheivent medal, because you can't guarantee anyone will recognize that person's contributions later. (In my first unit I actually wrote up award ecommendations for several of my troops for a project that went exceptionally well, but my commander refused to accept them because they were either too junior or because it wasn't time for their PCS. He of course used this accomplishment in his own write up for his PCS award.) (I had the PCA letter of continuity thing happen to me again even as a Lt Col in the AF.)

I also believe that we put arbitrary grade restrictions on medals that are not actually in the regulations. Like you can't get a Meritorious Service Medal until you are a Captain or Major, or for enlisted until you are a SNCO. These ideas really hurt people, enlisted even more so. The fact is most award criteria in all services have a statement of "when compared to others with like rank and responsibility". If this were applied better, more enlisted would receive awards when they truly shine. Applying this better should actually result in a situation where an enlistedight even get a higher award than an officer for the same action. Which would make sense. Someone commented on the idea that an officer got a higher award than an enlisted for doing the exact same work, and it was because they were an officer. This would flip that. If an O-3 and an E-5 did the exact same action, the E-5 ought to be getting the higher award because the action was further outside of the expected actions for an E-5 but perhaps more commonly expected for an O-3. Not providing a specific scenario doesn't help the argument, but I think most will understand what I'm getting at. Why can't junior enlisted get a Commendation or an MSM? If they actually did something that should only be expected of a SNCO or a FGO, then why shouldn't they get recognized with a higher award for doing something beyond "those with like rank and responsibility"? So I think that misapplication of criteria is also to blame for the disparity.

The other thing I think is I think is problem is getting points for medals on enlisted promotion scores. Getting a Medal is so far out of their ability to control, no matter how great a job they have done, that I think it unfairly imbalances promotion scores for people who have just had commanders with bad awards philosophies.

I think those are 3 major reasons we have awards issues, and often affects officers as well. The AF also had a worse system of award authority level than the Army. Even as a Squadron Commander in the AF (Battalion level), I did not even have Achievement Medal authority. The AF may have changed that since, but the AF tends to restrict that more for no good reason. I say lower the authority level to Company/O-3 or 4 for Achievement, Battalion/O-5 for Commendation, and Brigade/O-6 for MSM.

The position factor does legitimately play into why officers get higher awards sometimes. The responsibility for leading the efforts, for everything a unit does or fails to do (even if we are talking about non-command positions over teams, sections, etc.) should weigh into the level of award for an officer. Other than, I do think the sheer nature of someone's grade affects the level of the award more than it should and/or in the opposite direction than it should.

Yes, we don't do the job for awards. But I agree with Napoleon, who I believe said something to the effect of putting a little colored ribbon on someone's chest goes a long way in terms of morale and loyalty.

Just my opinions.

Response by SFC Bruce Smith made Jul 4 at 2021 2:46 AM

SFC Bruce Smith — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 02:46:59 -0400

I know I’m very late but I have a crazy story. I had a 2LT in Kuwait who dodged everything by staying in his air conditioned room. He wouldn’t answer the door when someone knocked and never got a hint of a tan. The one time he did roll out was for security at port. His failure to acclimate made him a heat casualty that day. As for the platoon, the PSG, a squad leader, and a SPC (yep) split out the PL duties somewhat equally and ensure mission success.
The PSG and SL didn’t give two shits about awards but did work together on the citation for the SPC. When time came to present awards, that citation was read off but the soldier receiving it was the lazy ass PL. He typed it up, put his name, then had another officer sign. He then did another citation soldier for whom the original was written. The lieutenant didn’t want to be outshined by a SPC.

Response by CPL Jason Northedge made Jul 4 at 2021 9:55 AM

CPL Jason Northedge — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 09:55:26 -0400

This is my take on ur question. The Army is so geared towards leadership they award the officers more. And plus enlisted don't care as much about awards like officers do. We like the fight and getting dirty officers just lead.
That's my 2 cents.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jul 5 at 2021 8:07 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 08:07:03 -0400

It appears your real questions is why are you not receiving awards? Focusing on why someone else is receiving military decorations is not the direction you should go in. Obviously someone recognized your potential and your job performance, because you indicate that you will be promoted to SSGT - Congratulations. As far as other recognitions, they usually come w/ time accomplishing critical assignments, exceeding military physical standards, and always looking sharp.

Response by MSG Richard C Finley made Jul 5 at 2021 2:10 PM

MSG Richard C Finley — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:10:06 -0400

Well I'm a retired MSG and I did receive a ACM at one time, maybe one before that, either that or someone made an error because my Certificate said 2nd award. Anyway the AAM when it first came it was an easy for the Cmdr to recognize Enlisted without trying to reach a higher standard for the ACM. Myself I received 3 AAM in my last three years and one was given to me in recognition of running post support with only half the Battalion and running my (SMG position) S-3 shop and no officers. and then a MSM when I retired.

Response by MAJ Vance Fleming made Jul 5 at 2021 9:21 PM

MAJ Vance Fleming — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 21:21:36 -0400

You're going to get the "increased levels of responsibility" and so forth as far as why officers get more or higher levels of awards. That is partially true because some awards are developed for those senior / higher positions. Few enlisted will earn higher than a garrison MSM or deployed Bronze Star.

It's not written (or shouldn't be but some units were dumb enough to put it in writing): O1 and O2 plus E4 and Below receive Achievement medals; O3, E5 and E6 receive Commendation medals; O4, O5, E7 and E8 in non leadership positions receive nothing higher than an MSM; O5 in leadership and E9 get LOMs. The higher awards are for E9s plus O6s and up.

If an officer does the exact same thing as an enlisted member, then they should receive the same award. If an enlisted member does more than an officer, they should get a higher award.

I have seen it happen this way. Officers and NCOs completed Nimmegen 100 mile march and all received the same award. I saw a SPC receive a MSM for exceptional service and an CPT receive an AAM for his end-of-tour award.

I have also seen the well liked members receive awards for doing the minimal effort and those introverted personalities receive a lower award than their efforts deserved.

From the retiree standpoint: Awards seemed so important to me when I was enlisted and later commissioned. Now that I am retired... I don't think about them at all. Pieces of clothe on a uniform that I don't wear anymore. There are awards for government civilians and for private sector employees that are more relevant. Do you know what we value more? Pay increases, time off awards and monetary awards... I've left several civilian assignments since I retired from the military and haven't received one PCS / EOT award certificate, but I have received what are relevant, tangible awards that I could put to good use - spending time with my family and having extra funds to spend on them.

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made Jul 5 at 2021 9:25 PM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 21:25:38 -0400

As a JM in 78 has pay

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 7:28 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 07:28:38 -0400

Yes, there is a problem with awards but start thinking of solutions to problems.
1. Your O/NCODP should have "How to write an Award" topic (each service should have it too).
2. Teach your Soldiers to keep track on their accomplishment during deployment and garrison. This will help during evaluations and writing awards. (i.e. 7 CLPs with 2 DF, 3 IED or wrote 5 SOPs for company that became BN standard)
3. If what the Soldier did to impact the unit (AAM), the next level (ARCOM), or the Army (MSM). Of course, it has to be balanced with the position and the actual rank (O4 vs E6) would clearly be above expectations.
4. What are the standards for the position? " Successfully graduated 12 Soldiers out of 15 with a 3.96 GPA" The Army standard is a 70% pass rate, this is an 80% pass rate. As an instructor, you should strive for 100% pass rate.
5. Does your unit have a policy letter for Impact, End of Tour, PCS, and Retirement? If not, write one of your own and submit it to your chain of command. Maybe they are too busy with other things.
6. Be the solution!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2021 7:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jul 2021 07:36:15 -0400

Most awards given are BS awards. Some of the greatest Military Heroes have very few awards. It is about being the best Soldier you can be.

Response by SGT Jeff Giles made Jul 16 at 2021 12:15 PM

SGT Jeff Giles — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:15:51 -0400

“A soldier will fight long and hard for a piece of ribbon”

That’s the answer Napoleon gave when asked why he issued medals. Think about that for a minute and you’ll realize it’s about manipulating someone to do stuff by giving them otherwise worthless fabric.

Now I get it, I had a fair share and I was proud of it. I realized later though that Napoleon had been right about me and it pissed me off. Forget the fabric! Do it because you’re a badass American soldier and let the officers enjoy the brain wash games to feel good about themselves. You should feel proud simply because you are a member of a brotherhood and you know in your heart you always push to be the best.

When you get out and later in life what still matters? The ONLY thing that still seems to matter to everyone at least in my experience is each other! Your brothers and sisters in arms is really the highest reward you will receive while in the military. Always remember that.

Response by CPL Sharon Fahey made Jul 20 at 2021 4:35 PM

CPL Sharon Fahey — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:35:50 -0400

No offense, but we are the one's that make them look so good because we take pride in our work and care about our fellow soldiers. My chaplain got the Meritorious Service ribbon after deployment for working on his promotion to CPT. But on the other hand, my Chaplain back in the states worked his butt off for our soldiers and the command and only received COL after we went to Kosovo after being promised a promotion the year before. I guess it depends on the command.

Response by SSG Conrad Sylvestrelamb made Jul 23 at 2021 2:58 PM

SSG Conrad Sylvestrelamb — Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:58:21 -0400

The character of a man is not the uniform or awards. Be professional about it . NCOs make it happen. Chain of command is a good solution. Make that command decision, live with the consequences and drive on . In the end those ribbons won't mean a damm. Only to your grandchildren.

Response by Cpl Raymond Wiltshire made Jul 25 at 2021 12:40 PM

Cpl Raymond Wiltshire — Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:40:15 -0400

Back in the late 60's when I wan in the Corps I would see an officer with high valor awards. The first question that always popped into my mind was "I wonder how many enlisted men had to die for him to be awarded that?"

Response by SGT Michael Anglemyer made Jul 28 at 2021 6:46 AM

SGT Michael Anglemyer — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:46:39 -0400

As a Sergeant in 1991, I was working the night shift at Hohenfels as an OPFOR scripter with an E4 and a 1LT. The SPC was talking about award inflation and how leadership tends to take care of leadership with the BSM and other combat awards. Having just returned from an infantry battalion in SWA, I said that awards should recognize the recipient's level of responsibility, not just what outsiders saw him do, while noting that BSMs were given out too freely. This 1LT said it sounds like sour grapes from people who never got a BSM. I told him I was speaking as one of the few E5s in my unit who received one. I deserved mine, but other people who also did weren't properly recognized. He got offended by this and he stopped short of calling me a liar, saying there was no way I should have received one.

Response by SGT Andrew Anderson made Jul 28 at 2021 8:20 AM

SGT Andrew Anderson — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 08:20:59 -0400

I served in the Army in the ‘60s and early ‘70s and it was a rarity to see an enlisted man with anything other than a National Defense Ribbon. If they'd been in a few years, a few more like Vietnam Service or Campaign ribbons. Officers however, always seemed to have several more even though an enlisted and an officer had the same same time in service, always wondered what they did more than an average enlisted man! The thing that really surprises me is the number of ribbons on just about every soldier today, both officer and enlisted! I've seem 1st Lts., 2nd Lts., E4s, 5s, and 6’s with more fruit salad on their dress uniforms than Gen. Patton. They must hand out a ribbon for just about everything these days, I guess that's in line with “everyone” gets a trophy mentality.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2021 11:30 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Aug 2021 23:30:02 -0400

Weird. Because I haven’t gotten an award since I commissioned and as an enlisted guy I usually got 1-2 every year or so.

Response by Sgt Gary DeSantis made Sep 6 at 2021 4:32 PM

Sgt Gary DeSantis — Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:32:33 -0400

Google search "The Peter Principal" there you have it, KISS.... keeping it simple sergeant :-)

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Sep 17 at 2021 3:48 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:48:02 -0400

Easy one. For one, lower enlisted have far less reponsibilities. As people progress in rank, their responsibilities increase. A Fire Team Leader, Sqd Ldr, PSG have fewer people to be RESPONSIBLE FOR, with far more responsibiiliteis on their shoulders. Likewise, the Plt Ldr and Co Cdr have even more responsibility ... AND risk. Thus, the highter the rank, the more likely it is for more or higher awards.
The envy factor of that is self-defeating. (No, I'm not sayiing your situation is from envy, but a legitimate, often asked question.) When it comes to actions in combat however, there are far more enlisted receiving awards of valor than offiers, I'm pretty sure. That's because the enlisted, and junior officers (include them too) are usually in more vulnerable/dangerous areas. While Colonels and Generals may get higher achievement awards (Meritorious Servce Medals for example), I don't believe the do with valor awards.
EXAMPLE: 77% of Medals of Honor have gone to enlisted personnel; 23% to officers.

Response by SPC David C. made Apr 13 at 2024 6:49 PM

SPC David C. — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:49:41 -0400

I personally witnessed this on three occasions. First, when we were in Iraq, everyone E6 and above were awarded a BSM simply for being in country, not because they actually did anything to deserve it. Some accepted, some refused. We all knew who did and didn't. Second occasion, DURING the award ceremony for a Marine corporal who earned the Navy Cross while fighting in Fallujah, I watched an Army Sergeant Major shake his head and say as an E4, that Marine didn't deserve the Navy Cross because he had plenty of time to earn it again as long as he went career. I had no respect for the man before that, but I lost ALL respect for every staff NCO and officer around him who didn't say a single word of protest. That SGM didn't see a day of actual combat while we were in country BTW. And lastly, this is hearsay so I don't know this for sure but, I was told this by the Master Sergeant who put me in for the award so...I was in the right place at the right time and fate smiled on me for about 30 minutes one day in country. As an E4, I was put in for a BSM, and instead was "awarded" with a helo ride to Tikrit with the commander for the day. The guy was an asshole and I'd have rather bathed in battery acid than to spend the day riding around with him. Our CG came to visit me and say good job but this fucking LTC didn't say a word to me the entire time. I didn't find out until several months later, and by then I was mentally done with the army and had already made other plans. Seeing that the BSM has no meaning anymore, I didn't particularly care. It was the principle that pissed me off. In my experience, higher ups will A-L-W-A-Y-S look out for themselves first. In most cases, if you're E5 and below, you're a waste of their time if you're locked on and a "typical" enlisted if you find yourself in trouble. There are always exceptions to that rule, of course, but never so much that I'd let my guard down around anyone E6/01 and above.

Response by CPO Melvin Miller made Apr 13 at 2024 8:34 PM

CPO Melvin Miller — Sat, 13 Apr 2024 20:34:11 -0400

Hate to say it its always been that way. In the 60's and 70's when I entered the military as an enlisted we did not get evaluations that reflected our true worth. Geberal rule was lower the rank the lower top evaluation mark. Because you were not qualified enough. No 4.0's unless you were a E-7 or in personnel office. Individual awards usually went to the supervisor or divison officer/department head. If the ship got an award you would also. you could get markmanship or a good conduct. As a E-6 filling a E-7 slot I recommended the people under my charge more than once for going over and above more than once. Division office got an award. No letters of commendation either. My first 4.0 was given to me by an Senior chief after I left a school that I ended up teaching some classes. In spite of the way things were I did Make it to E-7 and accepted for the Warrant program at 9 years. Indtead i left the miflitary to take care of family members in ill health.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Apr 14 at 2024 3:16 AM

SPC James Neidig — Sun, 14 Apr 2024 03:16:48 -0400

I Know It’s Been A Few Years Since This Post.
I Have Just Seen It And Had To Respond.
I Spent 6 Years In The Marines And Was Awarded An Air Medal Purple Heart For Service In Grenada Along With Ribbons For Just Being There,
I Was Also Awarded 1 Navy/ Marine Corps Commendation Medal And A Navy Achievement Medal , A Over Seas Service Ribbon And Good Conduct Medals.
in The Guard I Was Awarded 2 Army Achievement Medals , Humanitarian Service Medal, Army Service Ribbon And Good Conduct Medal. Plus Pennsylvania State Ribbons and Medals.
My Short Time On Active Duty Army I Was Awarded 1 Army Commendation Medal, 1 Army Achievement Medal And A Second Award Of The Humanitarian Service Medal.
All Awarded As An E-4 Or Below.
All Of Those Medals ,Ribbons , Aircrew Wings , Expert Rifle And Driver Badge Looked Real Pretty On My Dress Uniform .
But In The End Got Me Absolutely Nothing After I Left The Military .
I Would Be Just As Proud Of My Military Service If I Would Have Only Been Awarded Good Conduct Medals And Service Ribbons.
Because I Served Honorably And Did My Job To The Best Of My Ability.
I Didn’t Care If Some E-7 Or An Officer Got A Higher Medal Than Me, I Did My Job Not Theirs.

Response by LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones made Apr 26 at 2024 10:55 AM

LTC Thomas (Tom) Jones — Fri, 26 Apr 2024 10:55:48 -0400

Napoleon is quoted as having said, "Give me a handful of brightly colored ribbon and I will conquer the world." I never had ambitions of conquering the world but I did understand the underlying concept of recognizing and motivating soldiers. To me, awards were cheap and their impact on the morale and self-esteem of the recipients--regardless of rank, position or military/civilian status--were inestimable. If I cheapened a few over the years, I expect the organizational benefit made up for it.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 26 at 2024 6:21 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 26 Apr 2024 18:21:48 -0400

I was AD and served with a very large NG unit for two years. Upon getting ready to PCS, they told me to write up my PCS award. I left without an award.

Response by SPC Timothy Coleman made Apr 27 at 2024 11:50 PM

SPC Timothy Coleman — Sat, 27 Apr 2024 23:50:29 -0400

The Officer Corps is a Club. They pat each other on the back, Self congratulatory. They reward each other to help elevate the club members up in promotions. Scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours. Pure reciprocation.