Why are so many MOS Qualified soldiers not given any sort of civilian certification?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:18:46 -0400

While I understand that many are, there are too many Jobs that skate by without a civilian certification. An example would be with 12N Horizontal construction equipment operator doesn't even end up with OSHA certs for operating.

Response by SFC Stephen Hester made Apr 16 at 2014 7:35 PM

SFC Stephen Hester — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:35:31 -0400

MOS proponents have to pursue certification programs and many, for whatever reason, do not. I was a 12P (Prime Power Production Specialist); we pursued various power plant and stationary engineer certification programs as well as apprenticeship programs through the Department of Labor. This wouldn't have happened had we not initiated it.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Apr 16 at 2014 8:25 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:25:09 -0400

The State of Ohio has taken up that very battle. Last year Governor John Kasich signed into law to take into consideration military training and skills for certain state licensees. While this law doesn't give direct certification for all state licenses (it may for some in the future), it does go a long way towards that goal and is a major first step. The fields directly effected by this law range from commercial drivers licenses to medical licenses and college credits and the state board of regents are doing continual updates. Hopefully other states will start similar programs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2014 8:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:44:35 -0400

A lot of proponents have been pushing for certifications in various fields. For instance, MP's are testing out a pilot program in their AIT that covers education for civilian law enforcement. Medics must be EMT qualified. Air traffic controllers have FAA certification. 25B's and 25N's receive a massive amount of training toward certifications in their AIT's. One reason is that it's a great recruitment tool for the Army. The other is compliance with state and federal regulations. But, certifications require money, and many require experience. For instance, an HR certification requires 4 years of experience. For these the Army has the COOL website listing certifications for MOS's. Most applicable certifications can be payed for by the GI Bill.

Response by SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh made Apr 17 at 2014 3:26 PM

SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:26:40 -0400

'The Army isn't here to pad your resume'  That was the saying we always got when it came to this kind of thing.  Fortunately, as SFC Hester pointed out, the 12P community didn't accept that and kept pushing.  But it's a lot easier for us as we're a very small community and all pretty much located in one battalion.  It still didn't happen over night. <br><br>Best thing I could say is IF this is something you want to fix in your BN your going to need to develop a course of action to fix it and not just say you don't have a cert.  Be prepared to explain why it's important for 12N to have their OSHA certs from a safety perspective, and what it will take to get them.<br>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 17 at 2014 3:53 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:53:28 -0400

Because the bulk of our training is not ACE and OCE accredited. The additional standards that would require would mean much smaller classes, and longer training times, which isn't very effective for the Army...

Having said that, they ARE working on it. Plus a lot of schools are trying to partner with local colleges to accomplish much the same thing, but it's an uphill battle.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2014 6:38 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:38:48 -0400

I'm of the opinion that if you want a civilian certification, the onus is on YOU and you alone to earn that certification. The Army's job is to defeat the enemy, and we need to keep that in mind. It is a personal responsibility to ensure one is employable post -military, not the military's.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2014 8:23 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:23:21 -0400

If you Google Credentialing Opportunities Online...you can look up your MOS and in most cases it will tell you what you need to do in order to get the civilian certification that matches up with the MOS. I know if you're an 88M to get a CDL you just need your license and a letter certifying the number hours you have driven. It can be done sometimes you just need to do a bit of research.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Apr 18 at 2014 8:33 PM

SFC Walter Mack — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:33:40 -0400

So I'm reading some of the comments, and what I see is similar to what CPL Mills has stated in one of his posts. We only care about you while you're here and producing for us. Why is it the military's job to help you put your skills to use after you exit? If you want to prepare yourself for success, do it yourself. If you want a shiny badge that will help you get promoted in our organization though, I'll help you with that.

I ask any of you why the military is forced to care about your post government employment prospects? ACAP/SEPS/TAPS/various other service specific transition programs are all forced upon us. Should we as Army leaders not care about the future of our Soldiers with whom we have worked, fought and bled over the years? Enough, at least, to ensure they have a life after the military? I have seen a lack of mentorship over the years, but I've always sought to supply mentorship to the Soldiers whom I have the pleasure to lead.

I would argue that we as Soldier managers should demand that our Soldiers get their certification, go to college, and take steps to better themselves. Not for the purpose of furthering their Army career, although that is also most certainly a goal, but to ensure they will be successful at whatever they choose to do in life. I also believe that senior leaders should ensure that all of our training exceeds any civilian standard and therefore provides credentialing to the Soldier. I have seen that change in my own MOS, as we are now credentialed out of AIT, but there are still other MOSs that could use some love.

In my opinion, one of the worst qualities in a leader is teaching your Soldiers that it is difficult to live outside of the Army so they will reenlist solely for the job security provided by Uncle Sam. First of all, there is life after the Army, and attempting to hold a Soldier hostage because they served honorably for the agreed upon number of years instead of being a drain on the system is reprehensible. Secondly, we should be proud when we have a motivated Soldier that will represent a quality product to the civilian community. Those who stay for no other purpose than an inner fear of life outside of the Army are a drain on the system and have long put a strain on the backs of those around them. Lastly, we should make every effort to do right by service members who have a drive to do great things so that maybe, just maybe, they will do great things for us.

Caveat, I love being a Soldier. I love taking care of Soldiers. I truly appreciate the opportunities provided to me over the years as a Soldier. This is why I've chosen to stay when I could have made more money and done great things outside of the Army at any time. The Army as a whole does a great job of giving us the tools to succeed in life. That said, I have long felt that leadership in each Army MOS should care enough for their Soldiers to provide them with any basic credentialing opportunities available. The higher level credentials should be reserved for high level performers, of course, but we already do that well as far as I know.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jun 12 at 2014 12:34 AM

SSG Mike Angelo — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 00:34:19 -0400

For the simple fact that it is not wired in the enlisted MOSs. There exists no champion for this endeavor. No top down strategy.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2015 4:30 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Mar 2015 04:30:15 -0400

I have heard rumors of the Army attempting to get Civilian Certifications out to certain MOS's from AIT, but that would require having to re-plan a lot of MOS training.

Now outside AIT and in a real Army Unit. The Main 3 reasons (At least from my point of view so far)

1) Not enough class slots (for classes such as A+, Net+ and Sec+ among others)/Senior Leadership takes the slots first.

2) Not enough research by the Soldiers to know where and how to take other Cert classes.

3) The Unit METL may not allow certain people to attend certain classes or be seen as low priority. Along with various other tasking's.

Response by 1SG Jeremy Evans made May 20 at 2015 11:52 PM

1SG Jeremy Evans — Wed, 20 May 2015 23:52:42 -0400

Hi CPL Mills,
This is a great question. I responded to a similar question on MilBook a while back. There needs to be some type of partnership with industry to establish what training standards we can implement to meet the civilian certification. For example, I have researched and contacted the National Commission for the Certification of Crane Operators (NCCCO) in the past to see how my experience would transfer into their certification program. I was told that I would basically have to start, as any new operator would, and the experience would only help me out in regards to the practical exam. Now, the army C4 ASI crane school is three weeks long. At the end of the school as you know, the Soldier is awarded the C4 ASI but not a civilian certification. In comparison, ATS Heavy Equipment School also offers a three week mobile hydraulic crane course with a NCCCO certification. What would keep us from aligning our C4 course to meet the same standards?
Involving local unions in the training development process would also be beneficial. What better way to market our 12N Horizontal Engineers back to the civilian job market than to have the agencies that will be hiring them assist in training. There would be a common language between the army and industry in understanding what skills a 12N possesses.
I believe that the certification process would be better suited for ALC and SLC due to the operational knowledge base that should be built by the time an NCO attends. It would also serve to better weed out the ones looking for a quick handout.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 1:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 01:39:43 -0400

Yes and no ones knows what a 1059 is, give us Civilian Certificates when we ETS or retire