Why are there no Masters Degree (Funding) programs available for NCOs?

2018-06-10T23:22:24-04:00

The graduate degree program is embedded in the Officer career path. Typically, you see them starting a Masters degree somewhere between Captain and Major. However, it is 2018 and the Enlisted side of the house either doesn't have a program embedded in our career paths or it has one in the infancy stage (E-9 pilot program at USASMA).

I've come across comments online that O's are required to have degrees while Enlisted are not. However, having a degree is becoming a huge discriminator for Senior NCO promotions. Yet, we don't have many options that would allow us to pursue graduate degrees and often we have little to no time to complete them. On the flip side, O's have a program where they can go to school to complete their Masters. The Army keeps pushing for a more intelligent, competent, and professional Enlisted force but we still having that gap.

I've been thinking about this after I went to talk to an educational counselor. I finished my Bachelors Degree about a year ago and had to start using my GI Bill since TA won't cover me for a Masters Degree for the next two years or so and there are no other programs that could help me to continue without having to wait (currently waiting for SFC board results). TA policy currently requires me to wait until 10 years in service before I can use it again for a Masters Degree since I used it for a Bachelors Degree. I will be done with my Masters by the time TA is available again which it frustrates me a little since the two options for me where GI Bill or wait for 2+ years.

***UPDATE*** Just to clarify, my post wasn't intended to say that NCOs aren't afforded time to do it (I'm doing mine online as we speak). It was directed to the couple of funding options available.

***UPDATE #2*** The Army released directive 2018-09 which addresses my question. NCOs, WOs, or Os that want to pursue a Masters Degree program can now use TA once they complete ALC, WOBC, or BOLC. It looks like this was a question that has been around because it was addressed by the Army.

***UPDATE #3*** straight out of DA PAM 600-3 (Officer Professional Development and Professional Model). All I'm trying to say is that it is spelled out in a reg that there are different programs available to Officers for Advanced Degree programs where we barely have them for the Enlisted.

4–16. Civilian education
a. The Army Advanced Civilian Schooling program has two objectives: to meet Army requirements for advanced
education and to provide selected officers the opportunity to satisfy their educational aspirations.
b. Company grade officers are required to obtain a baccalaureate degree from a qualifying educational institution
prior to attending the CCC.
c. Officers should take advantage of opportunities for advanced education and should consider their civilian
education background when determining their qualifications for study in a given discipline. Officers who want to
pursue advanced degrees should do so in an academic discipline that supports their designated branch, FA or MOS. On
completion of schooling, officers are assigned by grade, branch, FA, MOS, civilian education level, and when possible,
academic discipline (or related discipline set) for initial utilization in an Army Educational Requirements System
validated position. In this manner, specific Army requirements are satisfied while simultaneously contributing to the
professional development of the officer corps and the satisfaction of an officer’s educational aspirations.
d. The appropriate proponent determines academic disciplines that support each branch, FA or MOS. See branch and
FA-specific sections below.

4–17. Education programs
Officers may pursue full-time studies toward a master’s or doctoral degree through either fully funded or partially
funded programs or a bachelor’s degree through the Degree Completion Program. Officers are encouraged to pursue
advanced degrees particularly when there is an opportunity to do so in coordination with resident training such as ILE
and SSC. Officers with liberal arts undergraduate degrees should not be dissuaded from their pursuit of graduate
education in the sciences. Available education programs are discussed in general below. (AR 621–1 governs specific
civil school programs.)
a. Fully-funded programs. Under these programs, the Army pays all tuition costs, provides officers with full pay and
allowances, and moves officers and their Families to the college or university of study. Normally, the period of
schooling does not exceed 18 months (24 months for participants in officer Career Satisfaction Program). Officers may
not draw veterans’ education benefits while participating in the Army fully funded program.
(1) Advanced degree program. Selected officers attend graduate school to meet specific Army requirements established
by the Army Educational Requirements System. While completing graduate studies, officers are assigned to
Army Educational Requirements System positions according to branch or FA, grade and appropriate academic skills.
Following graduation, utilization assignments will be served in accordance with AR 621–108 for a minimum of 24
months, and will normally occur immediately following such education, but no later than the second assignment
following education completion. Primary zone of consideration to attend graduate school normally occurs on completion
of the CCC, with sufficient basic branch or MOS experience, and 6 to 8 years of Federal commissioned service;
but no later than the 17th year of service.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2018 11:34 PM

2018-06-10T23:34:51-04:00

Where you stationed? The National Intelligence University, run out of DIA is free and a good master's program. I have seen NCOs in the classes. I think they were mostly Air Force people. You would probably have to do the reserve version, one weekend a month if you are active duty.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the Army making a BA or MA a requirement for enlisted. There is no master's requirement for officers.

Response by SFC Victor Serrano made Jun 10 at 2018 11:57 PM

2018-06-10T23:57:33-04:00

You should go at it on your own, get your Masters and don't wait on the Army. That's what I did before I retired.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jun 11 at 2018 12:18 AM

2018-06-11T00:18:07-04:00

Ok, not that I don't love both the NCO Corps and the idea of getting a good education, but where exactly is the upside for the military in getting graduate degrees into the resumes of NCOs? It is true that military is demanding more of NCOs in terms of getting education but even the highest that is ever "required" is an undergraduate degree. As you stated, TA was enough to attain this. If you really wanted to, you said it yourself, you could have waited only a few uears and tapped TA yet again for the Master program. The fact is that nothing asked of an NCO at any level, with the exception of possibly a Corps, Major Command, or SEA, that necessitates having a Masters in amy particular field. In addition, the ability to send officers away for school is both easier in terms of keeping up with manpower requirements and beneficial for retention in the military; there exist far fewer slots for officers across the military so pulling a few out of the mix for a couple of years doesn't hurt much and in turn they owe more years pf service to the military whoch guarantees at least a semi experienced and well educated officer corps in the higher ranks. This becomes especially important in a time such as the present where private sector equivalents are far less demanding and pay far greater than the military can hope to offer; perhaps handing out no charge education keeps a few of the good ones on the payroll for longer. It really boils down to a cost-benefit analysis for the military. Allowing programs similar to those offered for the commissioned side would be extremely expensive and not serve any real purpose for the military as a whole.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:27 AM

2018-06-11T00:27:16-04:00

https://youtu.be/-iBvq0LMLQQ

Watch this, it's mainlymfor USAF senior NCOs to get a PhD from AFIT...I don't know about masters, I don't know aboutnother svcs, however, you could!always ask, check also Naval Postgraduate School (NPS), Monterrey, CA, I don't know if they have something analogous, you could ask there also, I'm unsure if intersvc attending is possible, I thought it might interest you to see it....

NCO earns PhD from AFIT

For the first time ever since the Air Force Institute of Technology opened it's doors 95 years ago, a Non-Commissioned Officer has earned a PhD. The kicker? ...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2018 12:32 AM

2018-06-11T00:32:11-04:00

One thing you may not be considering is that fact that the Masters Programs youvare referencing are not available to all officers. It is a competitive board and only a few are selected each year. The only officer school that guarantees a Masters is the Senior Service College/War College. Captains Career Course and the Command and General Staff Colleges all require additional classes that must be taken on your own time. I earned my MBA as a 1LT and made the time after duty hours and on weekends. It’s also frustrating when an NCO has a college degree but still makes comments like “Sir, no one told me that or trained me”. If your an NCO and you’ve earned a degree, apply it! Officers are expected too, seems like a double standard. I agree with the comments on this thread, NCOs are technical experts who lead small teams, not managers. A degree, let alone and advanced degree is just not required. Even though it will make you more competitive on selection boards. Then again, I’ve seen NCOs with BS degrees not get selected for SFC because their NCOER and performance history were lack luster. Just my opinion. Good luck.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:32 AM

2018-06-11T00:32:42-04:00

https://www.usuhs.edu/graded/doctoral

On the clinical side, I realize you were listed as supply, o understand that, I just thought to point these out, of asked and found out that civil servants can in fact attend, so can civilians seekingntomwork after as civil servants, or so I'd heard...understand, these are PhDs in basic med sciences, not the MD or PhD or DNP in nursing, so I don't know if senior NCaos might he able to do them, however, once again, I merely thought to point them out, I should certainly think if AFIT would let senior USAF NCOs get their PhDs at AFITz I see no reason why NPS or USUHS couldn't do likewise as well....

Uniformed Services University

The mission of the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences is to educate, train, and comprehensively prepare uniformed services health professionals, scientists, and leaders to support the Military and Public Health Systems, the National Security and National Defense Strategies of the United States, and the readiness of our Uniformed Services.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:35 AM

2018-06-11T00:35:05-04:00

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Acquisition_University

I stumbled across this awhile back, I'd seen they have certificate prigramsz I'm assuming they might, emphasize might, be suitable for grad credit, though once again I don't know if senior NCOs can go, you might ask if interested, of course....

Defense Acquisition University - Wikipedia

The Defense Acquisition University (DAU) is a corporate university of the United States Department of Defense offering "acquisition, technology, and logistics" (AT&L) training to military and Federal civilian staff and Federal contractors.[1] DAU is headquartered in Fort Belvoir, Virginia, and is accredited by the American Council on Education (ACE), International Association for Continuing Education and Training (IACET) and the Council on...

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:38 AM

2018-06-11T00:38:34-04:00

Also, look at Marine Corps Institute (MCI), as well as Naval War College Command and Staff Nonresident, I did MCI command and staff nonresidentz it's on my DD214, as a listable PME, no grad credit though, I'm unsure how such things are done now, I'd wanted to do the NWC C&S, howeferz though I was approved to try it was quite involved very time consuming, serious reading, I never had the time, I'm afraid, however, once again, ask, I don't know if it'd be allowed for senior NCOs however, you could try citing the AFIT program for USAF senior NCOs as a precedentz maybe you know?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:39 AM

2018-06-11T00:39:29-04:00

http://www.excelsior.edu

Look at their !asters in liberal studies, I got a second Bach from them, they were part of NYS govt and privatized, a friend got his Bach in math and went Navy OCS using it....

www.excelsior.edu

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:39 AM

2018-06-11T00:39:45-04:00

http://www.tesu.edu

Try them in NJ also...

College Degrees for Adults at Thomas Edison State University

Thomas Edison State University provides opportunities for adults to earn a college degree. Explore our programs, online courses and flexible transfer credit policies today.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:40 AM

2018-06-11T00:40:31-04:00

http://www.charteroak.edu

They're in CT, also very real....

www.charteroak.edu

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:44 AM

2018-06-11T00:44:53-04:00

http://www.uopeople.edu

Look at their MBA, I must caution you, I don't know if they're accepted by the svcs, VA, or industry, however, zero tuition, but they're only DETC approved, not regionally accredited, they charge for exams and admin costs, prorated by country, their offs are in Calif, call them, they were endorsed by the Vatican, and prorate costs by per capita income of a given country, however please don't try them till you'd be absolutely sure if they'd be accepted, DETC is a Federally approved body, however, it's not I think on quite the same level as regional accreditation, Excelsior, TEEU, and Charter Oak are regionally accred, I'm fairly wurez UoPeople also just I think started taking transfer credits, undergrad at least, I don't know about the

University of the People Accredited Online American University | University of the People

Welcome to the world’s first non-profit, tuition-free, accredited, online, American university. Follow your dreams. Your career starts here.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:46 AM

2018-06-11T00:46:48-04:00

The UoPeople !ajors undergrad are limited for now, assocs and Bach in bus admin, comp sci (CS), and health sci (not nursing, basically bio/premed level, I'm assuming), however they do def have an MBA, just be sure before you'd use it, if you'd want to try it, I do not know of they're accepted by the svcs, VA, or industry

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 12:53 AM

2018-06-11T00:53:10-04:00

Elaborate on your !asters of you could...major? Grades? GPA? Regionally accredited? If you're !asters level, you might actually have a chance for the senior NCO PhD program at AFIT, I'm unsure what grades can go, I'm assuming E-8 or E-9, I don't know what the rules would he for lower enlisted grades, maybe your have to wait, maybe you could request an exception, ask to he allowed to submit a packet...purely as a thought, I know you likely want senior NCO, however, have you considered Army technical warrant? Maybe Navy Supply Corps perhaps? Other svcs? Just tougts, honest, I didn't know if you'd considered such things, I'd be most eager to year morez try to do a detailed bio sketch, hobbies, reading interests, research topics for a potential PhD dissertation, whether you're doing a masters thesis or capstone project...also, assocs? Bach? Majors for those? Grades? GPAs? Papers you've written, I tried to publish, I never could, I'm total perm disabled now, I'm trying to volunteer for clinical research to assist, the rules for !e are Draconian strict, however....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 1:01 AM

2018-06-11T01:01:12-04:00

Try to list actual course titles, STEM and non-STEam related...any engrg? Comp sci (CS)? IT? Mgmt? Elaborate as much as you can, I'll try to suggest more, possibly assignments conducive to your being in environments that might help get you further faster, OK? I'm assuming you don't want commissioned, unless you tell !e otherwise, I only suggested warrant as I'd seen a good many articles on Army tefchnical warrant shortages, honest, however if you want senior NCO, I completely understand...also, have you considered any possible interservice to higher level NCO spots in other svcs? Maybe USAF? Navy? USMC? USCG? Further if you're IT, I realize you're likely not interested in clinical, however, you might care to look at the USPHS commissioned corps for hlth info mgmt, I don't know about supply...they alsomuse engineers, I'd have gone that route had I known it existed...they're allowed warrants by law, I'd ead, they've just never had them...also, seriously Navy Supply Corps might possibly be compatible with your MOS, just another thought, I know I'd suggested it, also !maybe USAF for !material command, just another idea...please elaborate more, when time permits, hope all that was of some use and/or interest....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 1:06 AM

2018-06-11T01:06:35-04:00

Also, as an aside, I didn't know if this might interest you at all, I'd wanted to do USCG Auxiliary, I'd seen a website under USCG Aux in Wash state some time back about a masters program done for USCG Aux where it's paid forz you'd need to competed it''s given near NPS in Calif, I def saw itmsegl times, I'd sent it in Jere as a thread some time back, I'm not saying youdmwant it, I just thought you might care to know it existed that was all, honest, if I can find itz illmsend it again, OK?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 11 at 2018 1:08 AM

2018-06-11T01:08:18-04:00

And I'd been told that Civil Air Patrol was trying to maybe allow degree granting for USAF PME done under their aegis, I don't know if it ever want anywhere, however, you might ask once again, if you might have an interest, of course....

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2018 2:06 AM

2018-06-11T02:06:34-04:00

The masters degree is not embedded in the officer career path. There are certainly opportunities to do it, but not everyone is afforded that option. IF you are selected to go to the resident course for Command and General Staff College then you can opt to take extra classes and get a masters. There are some who signed a contract when they were cadets to get a masters "at some point in their career" on the Army's dime. Gotta be honest and tell you that the Army isn't all that keen on missing out on two years of being in the Army while your clock is ticking. I haven't seen it work out all that well for the officers that take 2 years off to go be Mr. Student and live the college life again. Officers have a pretty strict timeline they have to meet to make promotions and continue to progress...and getting a masters degree on the Army's time isn't in there. There are other programs like the Olmstead Scholarship or the School of Advanced Military Studies (an additional year after CGSC), but all of these are "outside" of what we are sold as a normal officer progression track. A lot of officers do what I did. I got my masters degree while I was doing my job. Night classes. Weekends. I managed to get another one from SAMS, despite them telling me it would ruin my timeline and I'd never be competitive for Battalion Command because of it. And I got the last one at the War College. That's the only course in the officer's career path that automatically awards a masters due to the actual curriculum and if you do the math, there aren't that many 2LT's who make it after 20 years. It would be interesting to do a survey...I'll create one to see where everyone got their graduate degrees.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 11 at 2018 7:40 AM

2018-06-11T07:40:40-04:00

NCOs can earn a Masters, even a Doctorate, it takes motivation and drive. In addition to TA and the Bill, Servive members can get Pell Grants and the like. I earned two while on active duty and never paid a penny.

I would argue with you as to the need for a Masters for selection to the next grade. No-one is looking for Senior NCOs to have a Masters, I did not earn My first degree until after attending the USASMA. so, no a Masters degree is not a descriminater, doing a great job, attending all of the leadership programs, getting certificates and advanced qualifications in your craft are discriminaters.

Get college as you can, I assure you those Jr. NCOs with Masters who have not achieved all they could in their mikitary requirements will not be selected ahead of this who have. It only makes sense that they who have it all will separate themselves from the pack. Keep up the hard work and it will pay off. Thank you for your service.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2018 9:16 AM

2018-06-11T09:16:52-04:00

There are some programs available, they are just rare and have the same (or more stringent) acceptance requirements than graduate school itself. For example, the Congressional Fellowship program is open to MSG/1SG and SGM/CSM. The first year of that program is earning a Masters at George Washington. The programs that are out there are highly competitive. My advice is that if you want a Master's degree, then earn one. It's not impossible while on active duty, as I did it.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Jun 11 at 2018 9:33 AM

2018-06-11T09:33:40-04:00

It may also be due to lack of qualifications. While there are some NCOs who have an undergraduate degree, some are from "diploma mills" or for-profit schools that have poor academic reputation. Good graduate schools may not want to admit them since their previous degree indicates weak potential.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jun 11 at 2018 12:17 PM

2018-06-11T12:17:19-04:00

There is no requirement for a masters for senior enlisted in the USAF. It is however, virtually impossible to make Chief without an associate degree at least, bachelor is preferred.

Response by 1LT Vance Titus made Jun 11 at 2018 1:11 PM

2018-06-11T13:11:28-04:00

NCO's who are qualified to enter advanced degree programs (masters or doctorates) and who have the desire to do so should have that opportunity available to them.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2018 10:06 PM

2018-06-12T22:06:58-04:00

I refer you to Army University: https://armyu.army.mil/

I also challenge you to see the Army not through a metaphorical straw...meaning it is not about you. It is about the defense of our Nation. If you want a Master's and you are smart enough go OCS or apply for a ROTC scholarship. I know my post is rude...but we are not privy to a Master's program--and neither are most Officers--unless we work hard to obtain it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2018 2:01 AM

2018-06-13T02:01:39-04:00

Only hitting half of your post; according to recently published Army Directive 2018-09 (6 June 2018), the 10-year requirement will be rescinded on 5 August 2018. The info is visible of Goarmyed.com, as well as in AD2018-09 below.
https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/ARN9506_AD2018-09_Web_Final.pdf

Here is the copy pasta from the Goarmyed.com alert:
"Changes to TA Policy Starting 5 August 2018

Dear Soldiers,

On 6 June 2018, The Secretary of the Army signed Army Directive 2018-09 (Army Tuition Assistance Policy) with an effective implementation date of 5 August 2018. This directive eliminates the one-year or ten-year wait to use TA and applies to all Soldiers, regardless of component.

Starting 5 August 2018, Soldiers will be eligible for two tiers of TA depending on their current level of civilian education.

Tier 1: Soldiers who have a) not attained a bachelor’s degree and wish to pursue an undergraduate certificate/diploma, or associate or bachelor’s degree; or b) have previously attained a bachelor’s degree without the use of TA and who wish to pursue an undergraduate or graduate certificate/diploma or master’s degree.

Soldiers establish tier 1 TA eligibility as follows:

a. Enlisted Soldiers who have graduated Advanced Individual Training.
b. Warrant officers who have graduated Warrant Officer Basic Course.
c. Officers who have graduated Basic Officer Leaders Course.

Tier 2: Soldiers who previously used TA for any portion of their undergraduate degree, have attained a bachelor’s degree, and wish to pursue an undergraduate or graduate certificate/diploma or master’s degree.

If TA was used for any portion of the undergraduate degree, Soldiers establish tier 2 TA eligibility for pursuit of a master’s degree as follows:

a. Enlisted Soldiers who have successfully completed Advanced Leaders Course.
b. Warrant officers who have graduated Warrant Officer Advanced Course.
c. Officers who have graduated Captain Career Course or equivalent.

Soldiers must still meet other eligibility requirements, as described in Army Directive 2018-09 (Army Tuition Assistance Policy), to receive TA regardless of tier level they are pursuing.

Sincerely,

HQ ACES
Fort Knox, KY"

ARN9506_AD2018-09_Web_Final.pdf

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Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2018 8:18 AM

2018-06-17T08:18:05-04:00

Hey Battle I just received an email that the SecAR just signed an bit of legislation that addresses the very thing you are inquiring about.
Dear Soldiers,
On 6 June 2018, The Secretary of the Army signed Army Directive 2018-08, establishing the Army’s Credentialing Assistance (CA) Program with an effective date of 6 September 2018. This program allows eligible Soldiers to receive funding for courses or exams that lead to an industry-recognized academic or vocational credential.
Although the CA Program starts on 6 September 2018, only Soldiers participating in the Limited User Test (Regular Army Soldiers stationed at Fort Hood, TXARNG Soldiers, and TXUSAR Soldiers) will be able to request CA starting on this date for courses or exams scheduled after 1 October 2018. The list of credentials that Soldiers can request funding for during the LUT is currently limited to 29 credentials. The list will be provided to LUT participants.
Soldiers stationed outside of Texas are not currently eligible to receive CA. We anticipate Army-wide implementation of the CA program in late 2019 and will provide notifi cation when all Soldiers can request CA.

Sincerely,
HRC ACES
Fort Knox, KY

Response by MSG Loren Tomblin made Jun 22 at 2018 9:12 AM

2018-06-22T09:12:05-04:00

Back in the day when I was on active duty I studied every correspondence course I could get through the education center on post. All those courses were about the military. Finance, personnel, admin, comptroller and any others that improved my chances of being promoted. My assignments after the Infantry were always great. I don't know how the Army works today but I was promoted below the zone twice. My suggestion is to take that route until the Army recognizes that some NCO's can be placed in positions of greater responsibility. My biggest achievement was being assigned to a vacant LTC slot.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2018 2:24 AM

2018-06-23T02:24:15-04:00

They just changed the 10 years for TA. Now it is complete with ALC

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 8:10 PM

2018-06-24T20:10:04-04:00

This is not an accurate post at all, I am an active duty 51C and we are required to have a bachelor’s degree to stay in our MOS or we get forced out i think it’s he only enlisted MOS that a bachelor’s is required. There are programs like ACS (advanced civil schooling) which allows you to attend graduate school full time in return for extended service, also we have a tuition assistance program that will help you pay for your graduate school with what TA doesn’t cover. I’m not sure if other enlisted MOS’ have these available but they are readily available in mine.

Response by SFC Mark Lathan made Jul 4 at 2018 2:55 AM

2018-07-04T02:55:45-04:00

As a retired SNCO, with a graduate degree, here’s my two cents worth: critical thinking skills are more important, within the NCO ranks, than a degree. Unfortunately, most universities don’t teach this skill anymore. We need less emphasis on post-secondary education, and more emphasis on teaching our leaders how to think on their feet. They also need to learn how to think outside the textbook.

Education is someone telling you a spinning metal fan is dangerous.
Knowledge is understanding why a spinning metal fan is dangerous.
Wisdom is knowing not to stick your finger in the spinning metal fan to test your hypothesis.
Being a pedantic ___hole, means confusing #1 for #2 and #3, then blaming your colleagues for your severed finger.

Response by PO3 Brenton Holbrook made Jul 14 at 2018 8:31 PM

2018-07-14T20:31:37-04:00

I'm a former Navy E-4, and this was one of the reasons I chose to get out versus climb the ladder. Yeah, there's TA, but that isn't ideal and it's so limited. I'd definitely recommend the higher ups to look into creating this. In the meantime, I'd recommend Liberty University. They have their graduate programs locked into a military discount of $275/credit hour. So a typical 48 credit hour Master's would cost around $13K, so significantly less expensive than other options.

Response by MSG Arthur Ross made Jul 23 at 2018 9:36 PM

2018-07-23T21:36:18-04:00

When I was in 1964-1990 we had tuition assistance. Mil paid 80% I Paid 20%. started when I was an e-6 in Okinawa with UV MD, finished BS in 1981, started My masters in Munich Ger, with Boston UV, finished at FT. Hood between field exercises. with UV of Texas. with a Masters in ED and Human Resources. I found in later assignments Officers did not know how to handle an E-8 with a masters Degree. I also worked as an Organizational Effectiveness NCO OOU40.
in addition to my 98Z50 MOS. Did the military do away with tuition assistance? and self help?

MSG Arthur Ross, RET

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jul 28 at 2018 2:46 AM

2018-07-28T02:46:41-04:00

National Defense University has a satellite program at JFKSWCS, Ft. Bragg. You can graduate with a fully-funded Master of Arts in Strategic Security Studies (MASSS). It is open to all special operations NCOs, WOs and officers. You get a masters degree in 10 months. All you have to do is go to a special ops assessment and selection(18-series, 37F, 38B), get selected, graduate the MOS course, and apply. It's also open to support personnel in special ops units.

Naval Post Graduate School offers a Masters of Science in Defense Analysis from the Special Operations / Irregular Warfare Curriculum. This is open to "select" NCOs. It is an 18 month program. Students are selected specifically from ARSOF, so the procedures are the same as for NDU. The only difference is that support personnel are not considered. Good luck!

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Aug 5 at 2018 12:52 PM

2018-08-05T12:52:26-04:00

As a person with a master's degree, I can think of no better way increase the knowledge and professionalism of the military's leadership. Plus it is a great benefit for people who are likely to need to start a second career Midway through their life when they retire from the military. Education is a great investment in people who are investing their lives in our country.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2018 3:49 PM

2018-08-05T15:49:35-04:00

The rule that forced people to wait till 10 years was only a more recent change, and for years prior to that you could use your TA for a Masters.
To answer your main question about why doesn't the Army have masters programs for NCOs? It's because the masters programs are for officer jobs. PA, Nursing, chaplain, Social worker, physical therapy, etc - these are all jobs in officer fields. There has to be some type of retained benefit for the Army to pay for a degree that's not necessary. The 10 year rule was added to prevent people earning their masters degree early in their career and then leaving. But I do think the Army would benefit from a masters program where the Army paid for the degree and the SM incurred an ADSO.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 4:23 PM

2018-08-07T16:23:59-04:00

Programs exist but can be hard

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2018 10:28 AM

2018-08-08T10:28:09-04:00

This is an interesting question that I've had for a few years. I understand the limitations of said degree program and what we are here for, defense of the nation, but I would like this to be available. I submit a hail marry: A board process for all SSG-MSG who have a Bachelors to be assessed on who big Army will send to school for a Masters degree. I recognize this is not ideal nor perfect, but it Could possibly address those NCOs out there who would like advanced degrees while they continue to serve-again this is a hail marry. ANY NCO with a Bachelors and or Masters is "kicking butt" in my book, my hat is off to you all!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2018 6:21 AM

2018-08-16T06:21:59-04:00

I don't see the point in embedding additional Masters programs on the enlisted side. NCOs get TA to get their degree. It's up to the member to decide how to use it. I can't speak for the Army but, statistically speaking, even with programs available on the Air Force side, there is a low percentage of folks who take advantage. It makes sense on the Officer side of the house since you require a bachelors to even become an officer. For the Air Force, you don't even require a degree until E8, and even then it's only an associates. I don't see a reason to push for Masters programs when folks aren't even taking advantage of Bachelors programs.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2018 7:26 PM

2018-08-26T19:26:46-04:00

IF, the NCO has the GPA, the Military Should pay for the Graduate Degree 100% !

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-08-26T19:27:59-04:00

IF, the O goes Not have a GPA, it Should br 'busted-back' to NCO !!!

Response by SSG William Leedom made Aug 29 at 2018 12:33 AM

2018-08-29T00:33:55-04:00

That’s not true,I’m a retired 18B I was a E6 I have a bachelors in criminal science and a masters in criminology,I earned them while on active duty from Texas AM in the 80’s And 90’s you have to use your resources,I’ve been retired since 99 but they still have to have many opportunities now for youn* troops,I started my degrees when I first went in to special forces and continued when I got to my retirement time,this was both the Vietnam opportunity and then I forgot what they called it when I put money into it,check around you will find you have more than I did

Response by SSG Wm Johnson made Sep 2 at 2018 2:28 PM

2018-09-02T14:28:10-04:00

I recall the talk back in the late 60's(!) of requiring BA or better for Promotion to 1Sgt (USMC).
And that was long before Tech conquered the world.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2018 6:16 AM

2018-09-08T06:16:09-04:00

I will more than likely not be going back to school. However, I would love to be able to give my wife the rest of my GI Bill money to pay for her Masters defree that she is currently working on.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2018 1:08 PM

2018-10-05T13:08:02-04:00

We at the 51C Proponent have been sending 51C NCOs to Advanced Civil Schooling for a fully funded resident MBA while on active duty for years now. Good schools too Indiana University, Clemson, Colorado State, etc. Maybe think about reclassifying to 51C?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2019 11:13 AM

2019-05-31T11:13:51-04:00

National defense university, naval postgraduate school, joint special operations university all have fully funded (as in no TA) graduate programs and typically get more enlisted than officers.

Response by SFC Joe Ping made Dec 29 at 2021 2:25 PM

2021-12-29T14:25:29-05:00

Because the military still sees the enlisted as low class

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 30 at 2021 1:49 PM

2021-12-30T13:49:14-05:00

Going to school online and obtaining a Masters degree is possible while on active duty as an enlisted service member. Things to consider:
You choose to go to school. Time management and understanding you made a commitment. T.A. can fund almost all of it, just takes time. NCOs need to do more to facilitate Soldiers going to college, or certification programs so they have tools and opportunity either later in their Army career or if they decide to exit service.

Response by TSgt David Olson made Dec 30 at 2021 6:44 PM

2021-12-30T18:44:04-05:00

The Army has certainly changed from when I was in, 1963-66. Back then education for enliisted personnel was non existent. I had sergeants who had not completed grammar school. In contrast with the draft came college graduates. In Vietnam I had a provost Marshall who was working on a master’s program. Was he a good officer, no, in my opinion. Contrast my three years on a extended active duty tour for the USAF, 1986-1989, I pursued a computer science program that was paid in part by the USAF. You still have that “class distinction” in the Army apparently when it comes to education levels.