Why are there transgender veterans who support banning currently serving transgender service members but won't discuss it?

2019-03-04T06:58:30-05:00

Been finding a recent string of self identified transgender veterans on mainstream social media who've uploaded personal opinions about the SCOTUS decision to stay the current or "future" policy decision to ban and seperate transgender personnel from service and continued service, and are in support of banning trans Americans from service.

Hopefully I can get an actual conversation going on, but for some reason when I said how I was in Bagram, AFG (at the time of posting, I've just recently redeployed home) and would love a further explanation they've all be silent. I love to hear negative beliefs and opinions about why a whole population should be removed and banned from service beyond "they're icky and weird and confused". When I get to hear facts on why women, HIV+, and even Non-American citizens shouldn't be authorized to serve; I get facts and discussions. For the trans argument it's just "gross, icky and confused".

Any thoughts on the matter?

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Mar 4 at 2019 7:45 AM

2019-03-04T07:45:06-05:00

It doesn't work well. And trying to be something you were not born and depending on medical support when deployed is an issue.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 7:54 AM

2019-03-04T07:54:16-05:00

I like to believe that sooner or later all reasonable people see incompatible lifestyles and her choices. Why the silence? Even when reasonable people recognize The incompatibility, it's difficult to speak against what one is.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 4 at 2019 9:09 AM

2019-03-04T09:09:24-05:00

The discussion is not as Cut and dry as you state. Bottom line is that there are a multitude of issues whenever the Government modifies standards for the military, whether that be related to human anatomy or the type weapons carried on the battlefield. If an individual who served in the military and later made such a huge transition and does not support that same life’s choice in the military in itself is telling. However, as I stated up front there are a multitude of issues related to this and any other policy change that needs to be reviewed in its totality not just because it is.

Thank you for your service.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 9:10 AM

2019-03-04T09:10:25-05:00

Oh the things wrong with this. 1. You have to understand the demographic. This is a very political topic that divides most. 2. Transgenders are one of the othered groups who is suppose to be liberal. In today's political atmosphere, breaking away from Dem. Party is a death sentence for you in your circle of dem. Friends. 3. The biggest supporters of trans are other trans. So goong against the feelings of that group will take away a huge support system. Again, thanks to today's divisive political environment

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Mar 4 at 2019 9:13 AM

2019-03-04T09:13:55-05:00

So, I have known and do know a fair number of trans servicemembers. I've been in units with them and have never, ever had any issues with trans servicemembers. All of my Soldiers have been Soldiers first and everything else second. I fully support trans servicemembers serving in all branches and services and I think the "ban" is a knee-jerk religious conservative overstep by people who don't understand and are not comfortable with other people feeling different than they look.

All of that being said, this is my understanding of the primary reasons for the transgender service "ban."

1. The resource costs associated with the actual transition process are not in line with standard, expected, medical costs associated with able-bodied enlistees. We don't let others in with a lot of other known medical issues that require extensive resources to treat.

2. Some people view transgender as a type of mental illness because a person doesn't feel like the gender they happen to have physical parts for.

I think those are the two I hear most often.

Response by SFC Harry H. made Mar 4 at 2019 9:17 AM

2019-03-04T09:17:57-05:00

IMO, and I say opinion, but really it's closer to facts. That any person who tries to be someone "PHYSICALLY" who they are not, is mentally ill. Anyone who would allow themselves to be self mutilated to be someone their not, is mentally ill. I don't argue the fact that these people are able to physically do the job. I do question their ability in the decision making process. And please don't be mad at me if I don't call you by the gender of your choice. You can convince yourself, but you don't convince me. The military should definitely not have to pay for any treatment or procedures. Plain and simple, transgender people should not be allowed in the military. The one thing the military doesn't do or do a good job of, is screen people with mental illness before they join.

Response by MSG Frank Kapaun made Mar 4 at 2019 10:06 AM

2019-03-04T10:06:00-05:00

To understand this issue better give a listen to Whodini’s The Freaks Come Out at Night.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 4 at 2019 10:38 AM

2019-03-04T10:38:10-05:00

I am not transgender, so I would not presume to explain why a transgender service member would support banning transgender people from joining the service.

That said, I will offer offer my opinion, freely admitting that I do not know how much I do not know.

It is a common mistake to believe that the next war will be the same as the last war. In a symmetrical warfare scenario, the logistical effort may be much more complex. Difficult delivery of person specific meds may overly burden the supply train. And has been a standing reason for banning a number of people with a variety of medical conditions from service. Although not, medical supplies, it was my experience in the Marine Corps that during peace time, personal mail could chase you around the Pacific or Mediterranean for weeks, frequently arriving out of sequence.

It is my poorly informed understanding that transgender people suffer a substantially higher level of mental health problems, particularly suicidal ideation. That may be a contributing factor, particularly in the crucible of deployment, and furthermore combat theater deployment.

I do believe the "gross, icky, and confused" concern exists. That does not mean I think it is valid. At various times different subsets of American Society have been too "gross, icky, and ______." As examples and by no means all inclusive list: Irish, Blacks, Italians, Asians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, etc. etc. etc. It seems that eventually, given enough time and no choice, the military adapts; typically faster than the civilian populace.

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made Mar 4 at 2019 10:42 AM

2019-03-04T10:42:21-05:00

Two famous transgender veterans are Kristen Beck (Retired E-8 SCPO from DEVGRU / SEAL Team Six) and Chelsea Manning (Disgraced E-1 PVT who gave classified info to Wikileaks). Pasting URL to old 2013 article of former angrily denouncing the latter

https://www.businessinsider.com/transgendered-seal-team-6er-issues-scathing-response-to-chelsea-manning-2013-8

Transgender SEAL Team 6er Issues Scathing Response To Chelsea Manning

Being Transgendered is not an excuse for criminal activity.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 11:01 AM

2019-03-04T11:01:38-05:00

With regard to any argument that the other Soldiers aren't ready, so it interferes--I call bs. That argument fails to consider that it is the same one used for other integrations--race, gender. Those are working.
Admittedly, I've not educated myself on this multifaceted issue. My basic understanding is, a person born with the physical organs/parts of one gender, identifies psychologically, as the opposite gender.
First, it may be for me to research, but in my day, that would be gay, lesbian, or bisexual. I understand it isn't solely about sex, and I'm aware of historical examples of people who disguised themselves and lived as a member of the opposite gender. Since they're dead, we can't ask whether they did it for identity, or to pursue an occupation that would have prohibited their actual gender from participating.
I do believe, in part, this issue is being politicized because it appeals to 2 separate bases.
With regard to any surgeries or other medical treatment, I oppose those on the basis of cost, lost work time, liability for compensation claims, and deployability.
With regard to any negative effect on good order and discipline, I'm not certain I accept it as valid. Those who opposed racial and gender integration made similar arguments that have been proven wrong. My experience is Soldiers are going to give their peers a hard time, and a harder time for those who don't perform, or who can't take a joke. There will certainly be those who oppose it based on bias, religious beliefs, or any another ideals, just as was used for other integrations. Soldiers worked through those, and the professionals based their treatment on peers on performance.
Essentially, I believe Soldiers can learn to accept someone's identity, and despite any opposition to it, can work with the individual. The problem, IMO, is if there is any real or perceived advantage for another Soldier.
Examples of real or perceived advantage:
Surgery, convalescent leave, profile recovery time, nondeployable time.
Male identifies as female, graded on APFT using female standards. (Note: I don't know what is used, as I've done no research. Reason for raising this is there was a male competitive power lifter who never won. After some time, he identified as a woman, so competed as one, and, of course began a run of wins.) I understand treatments to reduce or increase testosterone are part of the process for changing gender through surgery.
Maybe this is already addressed, I haven't checked.
My comments are based solely on knowing Soldiers. I oppose DoD paying for any medical procedures or treatment to facilitate any transition of gender. My opposition is based on cost and readiness.
With regard service by someone pre surgery or post surgery, I am neutral.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 11:07 AM

2019-03-04T11:07:48-05:00

No one can speak for anyone else so I have no idea why some trans people would support the ban. I have stated on RP before that there is data to support that trans people are likely to experience depression and have a greater likelihood to contemplate or attempt suicide. I have heard others on RP who seem knowledgeable say that those statistics are not accurate. At any rate, it makes sense for the military to look into this further. With the issues we currently experience with veteran suicides, it would be reckless to allow a group if people into the military already having a propensity for that.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 4 at 2019 11:20 AM

2019-03-04T11:20:49-05:00

As to why a trans individual would want to ban trans from serving while they serve is beyond my reasoning - sounds like something a crazy person would say.

However I feel its more than just irrational thoughts - maybe the result of personal experience? As to why one wouldn't want to talk about it - the same reason people in the military don't like to be asked if they killed someone or talk about their combat experience - its not always a positive experience or easy for the audience to understand without having experienced it.

However as not being trans I really have no clue and can only offer speculations.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 12:48 PM

2019-03-04T12:48:30-05:00

I'm an isolated dunce that knows nothing of such matters, but I'll throw my 2 cents in even though I'm probably going to regret everything I write here. Don't get too mad at me, I'm just thinking here. I don't know if transgenderism is a mental illness. However, long ago society burned fiercely independent women for being witches. Society also had some idea that skull sizes proved some races were inferior to whites based on scientific evidence. Society also viewed being gay as a sickness which could be cured with religion or an old fashion beat down. Society also thought frontal lobotomies and shock treatments were a good idea to treat people with mental illness.

Anyway, integration has always been an issue for the military. Previously, a solider had to follow (and respect) military history, tradition and the decisions of the officers appointed over them. It's often referred to as the brainwashing of the military. Hence the rigid rules and ideologies that perpetuate them, thus creating a fundamental structure that frames the basis for discrimination, and the opposition that follows. (Why? Because that's the way it's always been done!) However, this framework has proven to be effective in creating a cohesive group of individuals from different backgrounds and uniting them for a common goal. Unfortunately, it is specific in nature and has been historically written from the white male perspective. It took a long time for African slaves (and other minorities) to earn citizenship let alone the right to formally fight in US Army as equals. It also took a long time for women to earn the right to wear the uniform and they were placed into a Nurse corps initially and had to bear a lot of scrutiny and humiliation. (Or maybe they were being too sensitive? Or maybe it was the military who was being too insensitive).

Historically, transgenders are fairly new in the spotlight (they have been around forever but hidden) and they aren't part of the overall picture. Historically, boys are boys and girls are girls. Transgenderism break those rules and separates the sex, gender and identity roles/expectations. History is easy to repeat, but hard to break and very slow to adapt or change.

Traditionally, the military has set principles and values that build upon the current ideologies of the state/nation it protects. Military tradition is a rigid wall that separates those who served from everyone else. It's in the creeds we memorize, the uniforms we wear and all the various ceremonies we perform. Transgenderism isn't part of military tradition and the idea scares a lot people. Because they feel like they are losing something in return, or the value of tradition has been reduced in some way.

Lastly, soldiers follow and carry out the orders of the officers appointed over them. In other words it's the law! I'm not sure if transgenderism is even mentioned in the UCMJ, but if the top brass (or supreme court) says so then what am I as a soldier supposed to do? This also creates conflict between soldiers if someone they feel is disobeying a lawful order from a senior officer. Soldiers have been known in the past to take the law in their own hands based on some feeling or idea they're doing the right thing.

As for myself I'm not really sure what's right or wrong in handling this issue. I do know, no matter which side I stand on I'm going to make enemies regardless. It's a shame that something like this could divide us and make us hate each other. Remember what happened to Viccky Gutierrez last year in 2018?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2019 2:35 PM

2019-03-04T14:35:24-05:00

I am not transgender. But the only valid arguments I have heard are logistics and cost/benefit.
1. Logistically which pt test do they take? Who ( which gender) do they room with? usually these are done by designation of sex. Females room with females, males with males etc. Until and unless we go to a co-ed type arrangement I see this as a problem.
2. Medical Costs and long-term care - The military routinely discriminates against conditions that require prolonged medication. As a cost benefit analysis it is not good for soldiers medical to be high, when you add that deployments cannot guarantee supplies of specific medications - normally any condition is a disqualifier. How is transgender different in that it is a lifelong condition requiring extensive treatment and maintenance; normally any such condition is a disqualifier.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 4 at 2019 3:04 PM

2019-03-04T15:04:45-05:00

1. Don't think the problem is with serving with them. 2. Major problem is letting those in that are just starting to embrace their changes. Last figures I say was about 3500 identified trans folks, to do the continued medication (hormones) and adjustment surgeries would run millions of dollars, that could train more than 3500 troops. Then add the non-deployed recovery time , and looking at something that is not fiscal sound. I Believe that is why vet trans are not supporting it. Service sell was join an get an education- what maybe- "Join and get fixed on our dime?"

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Mar 4 at 2019 3:52 PM

2019-03-04T15:52:50-05:00

SSG,
"I do not know if that statement is correct. "support banning currently serving..."
The issue of Transgender is wide. You can be a female that feels she is male. But attracted to females... So, it gets deep quick. Then, there are those who are not willing to think deeply about a subject that deals with sex and what, if any, gender a person feels they are.
Those that are in charge of the US military have to take care of the mission. A complicated subject gets in the way of that and a lot of people get the message.
I have an example that might help. I use an ultrasound machine to perform exams. There is patient input before the exam begins. Name, date of birth...and male, or female.
That male, or female part is the issue. But, to complete the mission, answering the question is not ment to cause a conflict. The military is set up that way right now. Are you a female, or male and let's get moving down the road to complete the mission. We have no time for talking deeply about how some feel about male, female, or sexual orintation. So, you might not get much feed back right now. IMO.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Mar 4 at 2019 10:33 PM

2019-03-04T22:33:07-05:00

I recently became friends with a Marine who transitioned after service. To put it simply, transitioning is hard. It is not as simple as "waking up one day and deciding you are male/female from male/female." That is a gross (as in large, not icky) misgiving that has somehow become acceptable. Transitioning while in the military is much harder. And people I know who have transitioned, would not want others to go through an already hard process by being in the military.

Response by SGT Lisa Fields made Mar 7 at 2019 2:51 AM

2019-03-07T02:51:24-05:00

As for the supposed Trans vets that support the ban I have no information to go on as I have not seen it. The idea is so completely out of left field I can't comprehend it.

Now I can address legit concerns that have been misrepresented due to malicious uninformed assumption and straight up lies from certain parties.

1. Cost too much: 3years of data 0.0003% of the Medical budget (just the medical budget) ....yea no that's not even a drop in the bucket that's hardly a speck of dust in the wind hospital armbands cost more.

2. Mental illnesses: Being trans is no more a problem then being a foster child. There are no behavior or cognitive problems inherantly associated with being trans. However like foster children trans individuals at extremely high risk of abuse. Only instead of it being localized to the home it's everywhere everyday from society itself.
For current SM this is not an issue in the slightest. For recruit prospects well they made it to adulthood just like any Foster kid and if there's no mental diagnosis for things like PTSD Clinical Depression etc then there is no problem.

3. Non-deployability:
Another common lie. Every surgical process the military currently provides is available to non trans SM. Just like those SM their commanders have to sign off on a timeline to have it done so it does not affect deployability some have a faster turn around than Lasik with con leave or profile. No one's getting any special treatment. The one that requires a civilian Doc has same recovery time as the as a breast alteration, something SM have been getting for decades.

4. Rx Logistics: If we can keep a constant supply of nightmare inducing Malaria drugs to the whole force we can provide a few boxes of hormones every 6months. If a there's extended no contact nobody is going to die or go bonkers it just don't work like that in reality.

5. The military is not a social experiment.
Do excuse my French but you can kiss my black ass.

I'm not sure how my father dealt with the segregationist bulshit when he was in the military I don't know how women put up with the b******* back in the day but the military is not a social experiment hashtag air quotes is one of the most used beating sticks against minority groups since the beginning of time it's old it's tired and it's crap.

6.PT test
PT test will not be an issue in 2020 if everything goes on schedule so mute point.
However at present until an individual's transition is complete and maintain the same standards that they had before so a female transition to male still does the female standard and vice versa until transition is complete all gender specific standards remain unchanged.

In closing we are one of the few civilized countries that has a restriction of this type our closest allies Israel Australia England excetera they mandate transgender individuals to serve those which conscription or they allow them to serve.

There are no legitimate reasons to bar transgender service members none. Reality has proven all arguments against it to be bulshit pure unadulterated b*******.

But this will go round and round and round and round I don't see this conversation ending anytime soon there will always be easy but but but and the eww icky causing problems

Response by PO2 Wayne Durham made Apr 15 at 2019 6:36 PM

2019-04-15T18:36:38-04:00

The services are not a social experiment, no matter what the socialist Democrats wish. That is contrary to the mission. I prefer clear thinking focused people around, not someone that has total confusion over his/her/its gender. Secondly, why should taxpayers foot the bill for their reassignment surgery and drugs.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Apr 17 at 2019 12:36 PM

2019-04-17T12:36:36-04:00

There are medical and logistics issues they bring to the battle field. Not sure a Commander should be concerned whether there is enough hormone and other medicine available to his troops in combat in order for the transgender folks to maintain their current identity.

Response by PO1 William Moonen made Apr 17 at 2019 4:18 PM

2019-04-17T16:18:29-04:00

I am a former Marine retired Navy Vietnam DAV. I don't care who you are or who you were, you were train to do a job as long AS LONG AS YOU DO THAT JOB. It makes no different who you are. I worked with men and women in the service and they all did their job period.

Response by SSG Stanley Cohen made Apr 17 at 2019 10:20 PM

2019-04-17T22:20:17-04:00

You can not be and SHOULD not be deployable if you need to take daily hormones.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 5:08 AM

2019-04-19T05:08:03-04:00

You should have to have undergone the full proceudre and be stabilized to serve. There are many females (some males too) that have experience MST while serving. This percentage is much higher than the percentage of trans individuals. MST is considered a line of duty injury. Rooming a female who has experience MST with a trans airman who has not had the full change could further harm the female that has had the MST. In my opinion once they have had the full changes top and bottom and are stabilized with their hormones I have no problem with trans people serving. This is like requiring other medical conditions to be corrected first before allowing someone to join. To the “cost” issue my plan would be to allow the airman to take a “sabbatical” where they temporarily leave the military for a couple years to get it done and get them stabilized then return as the other gender. My biggest issue is with the people who take a few pills, leave their bodies intact in their previous gender and call it good. This could have a seriously negative effect on a service member who has experienced MST in the past and is forced to room with them while deployed. If you are going to be the opposite gender be fully committed and go all the way!

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Apr 20 at 2019 9:12 AM

2019-04-20T09:12:06-04:00

I am a live and let live, you do you sort of person, but I have to admit, I'm not in favor of allowing Trans in the military, because, to my mind, they are not capable of serving outside the US, which makes them unable to serve.

If its impossible for Diabetics who become Diabetic while in the military, to serve overseas, due to the possible problems with their drug supply, then the fact that Trans service members require a supply of drugs as well, means that they are just as likely to suffer from a problem with their drug supply, meaning that they are just as likely as Diabetics, meaning to me, that they cannot be shipped overseas.

I'm not quite sure why everyone believes that people who believe in a higher power, must mean that we HATE Trans and Gay people, because we don't. According to our religion, our job is to love and respect them, to treat them as we would be treated, and to leave the rest to G*d, and that is what most of us try to do, though there are so many who profess religion, but never quite get the full idea of that religion while letting their mouths open and spewing stupidity that doesn't go along with the precepts of their religion.

Yes, I'm a grouchy old Jewish Grandmother, who carries a gun, drives a pickup, and just finished making a baby layette for the nicest gay couple, that I met at a Veterans Day event. Doesn't matter to me who you are, or what you believe, you treat me right, I do the same to you.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Apr 30 at 2019 8:01 AM

2019-04-30T08:01:36-04:00

Im under the impression that trans are people that are one sex but mentally think they're the other and will physically alter their appearance. As for banning or supporting, it's a personal one. Living here in Texas, the gay population is massive and you wouldn't think of it, but the gay population doesn't like the rest of mainstream media push. Gay service members have always served, no one will stop that. Show up, do your job and go home.

Response by SFC Robert Hills made May 17 at 2019 2:34 PM

2019-05-17T14:34:28-04:00

I am truly amazed at the acceptance by military folks of the many social engineering projects being
carried out in the name of diversity. The purpose of our military is to seek out and kill our enemies
not to pacify congresspersons and other mommies

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jun 1 at 2019 2:44 AM

2019-06-01T02:44:14-04:00

The military isn't some all-inclusive club. Since we all took the ASVAB and went through MEPS you should all know this. We aren't built the same. I saw people get rejected during the health part. Did they whine about it? No. Where the advocation for the Scottish-Asian albino midget with a gimp leg, who's blind in one eye and a heavy lisp who wants to serve?
People get put out during BCT and AIT for many reasons and get an ELS. People who have 'issues' while in can be pulled off duty have mandatory health and mental screenings. Chronic depression and anxiety will keep people out. Someone who is having 'issues' with their sex and gender.....on some level do they need access to a weapon? What about the two teens that shot up a place. One was an American hating idiot and the other was a 'transgender' female; FtM.
If they transition, who's going to pay for it? YOUR TAXES. I'm not responsible for anyone else's healthcare nor are they mine. They will need constant evaluation on how the hormones work on the body. They are influencing their body, emotions, and way of thinking. If they don't get them it will also affect how their body works, emotions, and thinking. That's not very stable.
It should have never been allowed but it is what is. People were barred and put out for many reasons for decades. We all had barriers to get in. Many did, many did not.
https://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/index.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Health | CDC

Learn about the perspectives and public health needs of LGBT people and work to eliminate health disparities.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2019 10:26 AM

2019-06-01T10:26:10-04:00

There are many issues dealing with mental health and the like, but to me, those aren't the real issue. The real issue is one of logistics.

I absolutely do NOT think it is acceptable to force women to berth and shower with men, regardless of what those men think themselves to be.

Response by PFC Donnie Harold Harris made Jun 22 at 2019 8:42 AM

2019-06-22T08:42:52-04:00

I concur.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Jun 24 at 2019 1:42 PM

2019-06-24T13:42:10-04:00

Seriously the whole transgender issue is ridiculous. The military is an organization designed around a single concept - the efficient and devastating application of force against an enemy of this nation with the single goal of winning a conflict as quickly and with as few casualties and lowest cost possible. As such, one of the primary considerations is that the people in the military must be healthy, intelligent enough to train quickly, mentally and emotionally stable and finally without debilitating medical/mental/emotional problems that require anything more than the absolute minimum of care. This is why personnel are recruited in their youth and retired while still young by civilian standards.

Transgendered or about to be transgendered personnel are anything BUT emotionally/mentally/physically stable. The potential costs for maintenance and upkeep in terms of medical care simply do not merit the dubious value of such personnel. A female transgendered to male will never be as strong as a normal male and a male transgendered to female will also never be a normal functioning female. As to the argument that the AHA and other organizations have now decided that the desire to change ones gender is not a mental illness, I simply disagree. I have read, though I cant remember the exact source and its not worth my time to convince the sceptic - that even those who do successfully complete their transition have a significantly higher rate of suicide than non-transgendered personnel. I am not surprised at this - imagine having gone through all of the pain, cost and endless treatments only to find that regardless how authentic the appearance - one simply is not nor ever truly will be what they have tried to become.

While I feel sorry for these people, I cannot think of a single special talent, skill, attribute or strength they bring to the military family, nor am I convinced that they can or do actually function at the same level as their peers (of whatever gender they think they belong to). So, in the end it all boils down to a single question; what value do the transgendered bring to our warfighting capability that will outweigh their negative impact? The answer to the question is simply none. This is NOT a social experiment or a refuge for the socially challenged, this is a warfighting organization with a single purpose.

A final note here, all too often I see folks post comments such as mine and then get called transphobic or racist or whatever. Phobia refers to fear, I have nothing to fear from these folks, nor do I harbor any hatred for them; if anything I feel pity for them and wish there were some effective treatment for their problem. Please save the pithy comments and your reputation by not using the phobic label.

My regards...

Response by Sgt Peter Schlesiona made Jul 14 at 2019 11:40 AM

2019-07-14T11:40:58-04:00

Can’t address the trans or HIV issues but I believe you’re wrong about non-citizens serving. Non-citizens have been allowed to enlist since I served more than 50 years ago. At that time, serving time in the military shortened the waiting period to apply for citizenship. I am fluent in German and recall one of my DI’s dragging me over to some other platoon to translate for another German who had some trouble with English (I was already a naturalized citizen). The other guy told me he enlisted so that he could become a citizen faster.

Response by SGT Jason Huskie made Aug 21 at 2019 5:37 PM

2019-08-21T17:37:46-04:00

The obvious has been missed here. You have no authoritative proof that the individuals speaking on Facebook are legitimately Trans and Veterans or even US citizens. Disregard that if you physically have their ID and DD-214 or served with them personally.

We have extensive evidence regarding the active manipulation of public sentiment by bad actors in several nations. It comes straight out of psy-ops playbooks from Russian Intelligence services as well as Iranian and N. Korean presumed operational tactics. Soldiers are being briefed on this trend and advised not to believe anything that cannot be verified by multiple neutral sources(Not Daily KOS or Breitbart for example).

The objective is to create or inflame emotional hot issues that divide us as a people. A great way to do that is to spread absurd proposals and statements on both sides of the political spectrum. They can rely on the notion that we will choose loyalty to a political party over loyalty to our brothers and sisters as American citizens.

We are under attack as a democratic republic(yes, we are both by design) and it is Un-American to allow political issues to come before repelling our attackers.

Those annoying opinions you read about from the opposition are often held by very, very few people. Someone clever uses social media, and a small number of foreign controlled agents in American media, to blow the issue out of proportion to make you blind with rage and decimate our united front. It is working all too well.

A decade ago you would have thrown a sock party for an openly gay ”battle buddy”. But now many of us have served in combat with those same people and know that they are no different than anyone else in the uniform. They have flaws and strengths. Some are weak, some strong. Many soldiers have medical dependencies that cause problems in deployments but it gets figured out. Not to mention there are quite a few non-deployment roles to fill. The issue is one of acceptable policies and it will be handled professionally. You will see transgender soldiers officially embraced at some point. It will happen when legal language is put in place that provides an ironclad contract protecting the military and VA from any costs for gender reassignment or maintenance.

THAT is the only legitimate issue we should be discussing about those willing to put their lives on the line for you and the Constitution.

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Aug 22 at 2019 3:20 PM

2019-08-22T15:20:49-04:00

My understanding is that 80% of men who transgender to a woman end up committing suicide.

The entire subject speaks to gender identity as a mental health issue, not a military readiness issue. The military recruits physically, mentally and emotionally healthy people. Then these people are developed to their potential as members of task-groups expected to engage in mortal combat for the purpose of winning any armed conflict that the Executive Branch or Legislative Branch authorizes via Statutes.

Transgenderism is not a military capability. The subject belongs in civilian mental health institutions, not on in the Barracks or in a firefight.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Oct 7 at 2019 7:01 AM

2019-10-07T07:01:12-04:00

I just read an article by a medical psychologist in London England. The article was In title "Transgendered that want to revert back to their birth sex Can find no help and are branded traitors by the transgender homosexual community."
Many transgender people in the age range of 20 to 27 years old are having 2nd thoughts about their decision To be transgender or that had reassignment surgery. They all want to revert back to their normal birth sex but when they let it be known that they wish to revert back no doctor Tsai colleges no agency wants to help them for fear of the political Backlash. So now these people have nowhere to turn and many are committing suicide because they feel there is no hope and no one wants to help them. What I found interesting in the article was this psychology said she discovered that 70% of transgender people have a mild form or worse of autism. So to add some insight into the transgender question in the military if that is true that 70% of you have autism then yes you should be banned from serving in the military . That is one of the reasons attributed to the high rate of suicide amongst Transgender people. I personally do not think anyone that is transgender is evil in and of themselves I just think societee has really confuse a lot of young people and the failure of parents and home to let their children know that you are born male and female that's all. I don't think parents really take the time to talk to their children and if the child is confused about the bird sex it's up to the parent to straighten them out and they help them see through the confusion. This is what happens there's no spiritual training and the home regardless of what 1 may Believe no parent will personally teach their child to be evil and have no Morals at all when entering into societee. There the basic level of goodness and decency and empathy are parents and still in their children at least there used to be. To Allow your child to enter into societee unarmed spiritually is akin to suicide. So one solution is for the rest of the military that is not transgender or homosexuals when you find out someone is transgender and they expressed to you that they no longer wish to be help them out as much as you can if they've come to the realization that what they decided to do was wrong fast a first step in the right direction and we should do all we can to help them back on the road to recovery and sanity then they will be eligible to serve in the military.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Jun 22 at 2021 8:00 PM

2021-06-22T20:00:47-04:00

This a interesting PARADOX of values and beliefs!