Why can't 100% Disabled Veterans fly on Space A ?

2016-05-25T18:35:19-04:00

Response by SFC Josh Billingsley made May 25 at 2016 6:37 PM

2016-05-25T18:37:40-04:00

I thought there was always spaces offered to vets if there were no currently serving soldiers asking for the spot. Did this change?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 25 at 2016 6:42 PM

2016-05-25T18:42:36-04:00

I suspect it has something do with the Load Master not really being set up to handle someone that is Physically Challenged. If it was a DC-9 Nightingale Medevac Flight Maybe but most of them when I was in and did the Space A thing were Cargo Carriers C-141s and C-5, I can't even imagine trying to wrangle someone in a wheelchair up into the upper deck of a C-5.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2016 6:47 PM

2016-05-25T18:47:38-04:00

It has to do with aircraft and passenger safety. Most military aircraft are not equipped to handle passengers that need assistance. Very few, if any, AMC terminals have jetways and passengers must be able to board the aircraft through sometimes small access portals and ladders. And as mentioned by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel, navigating the ladder to the passenger deck in the C-5 can be a chore.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 25 at 2016 7:21 PM

2016-05-25T19:21:02-04:00

According to this white paper from AMC, following a story that questioned Disabled vets not being able to fly... There is no such blanket restriction. https://amra1973.org/data/files/Can%20the%20Disabled%20Use%20Space%20A(2).pdf

Can%20the%20Disabled%20Use%20Space%20A(2).pdf

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Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 25 at 2016 8:21 PM

2016-05-25T20:21:30-04:00

I'd obv wondered about that, I'd seen a site going into a lot of whus and wherefores about it awhile ago. Evidently, the whole!question has kinda been beaten into the ground I'd gathered, already. Obviously, money has to do with it, certainly, there's going to be costs involved in the whole topic, I'd expect, aside from logistic aspects of how to get the physically disabled onto such planes. My wife and I had me look up the whole topic, and short of a new law expressly allowing it, we, esp. O, just realized it'd never likely happen. One would logically think that the IDs given out to those at 100% to allow the use of MWR stuff ought perhaps to cover and allow that as well. However, at least from what we'd had me check, that's evidently not the case, at least from what I've gleaned for us this far on the whole topic. We wish it were allowed, obviously, however, while I'll of course look at anything listed here to read about it, the principal consideration, aside from any thought of cost, perhaps, is the need to reserve space for active duty, guard, reserve, and retirees. One might conceivably make the obvious argum pent posing an analogy between retirees and those at 100%, which, we gather, has also been a horse that's apparently been positively flayed. There are many groups providing some type of discount for disabled vets we've seen that are quite well worth looking into and highly reputable, of course. Some offer benefits for disabled vets, we've found, incl lower costs for membership, both for the vet as well as dependents, principally the spouse, although not, we'd expect, necessarily exclusively. However, barring some sort of legislative and or admin miracle, we've kinda come to the conclusion that the whole 100% disabled vet space-A flight question seems, unfortunately, pretty much a lost cause. One could be cynical, we suppose, and just ascribe the whole thing to money, regardless of whatever other rationale might be posed for barring it. Or, the notion that retirees having put in their yrs or more might be the more entitled, perhaps, that also I've seen posed as a reason. I was noncombat, so, in any pecking order that might ever be conceived of for such 100% disable space-A, we'd clearly be lowest on the totem pole, Wed expect. Certainly, combat disabled, and or those medically retired due to combat, if anyone should be allowed, would likely be the most deserving, at least the way my wife and I have thought about the whole thing. Next perhaps, could be some grsduatedmscale based on total period served, also distinguishing between combat and noncombat. Then, too, there are those noncombat 100% disabled who were injured during training or, e.g. some sort of accident, and thus also more deserving, perhaps, than noncombat 100% disabled who, e.g., became ill while on active, and were deemed svc connected disabled. I suppose, after giving the whole thing considerable thought, that one might quite literally need the wisdom of Solomon to decide who gets what priority for such space-A among 100% disabled, and in what order. Then too, what does one do with, e.g. those at , say, a 50% rating or higher? Ought someone at 70-90% not also quite fairly deserve similar consideration? Thus, as I see it, the whole thing is kind of like opening a Pandora's box, or letting a genie out of a bottle, you know? Not that my wife and I wouldn't obv love such space-A privilege, of course we would, we're just not exactly getting our hopes up anytime soon, that's all I'm trying to say. Please understand , I'm not expecting to be agreed with, certainly, and what I've posed here is just meant to engender thought and discussion, certainly. We'd be most eager to know any thoughts, of course, hope the foregoing was of interest, and are sure there must be good reasons other than cost, we just figure we're lucky to get what we got, and count our blessings, asking for space-A kind of reminds me of Oliver Twist asking for more gruel, lol, you know? If it's for clinical treatment at another VA or svc Hosp, then yeah, maybe, I could see it being allowed, however, just for a vacation or purely to travel, w're just not exactly holding our breath that it'd happen anytime soon, let alone in our lifetimes, however much we'd of course jump for joy if by some mirácle it ever were allowed (which we of course would, certainly, lol), many thanks once again.

Response by SrA Steve Susumu Monas made May 25 at 2016 10:08 PM

2016-05-25T22:08:33-04:00

I thought we could that's not right? Boy Scouts can still I believe. If I have a DOD ID card can I stll?

Response by CW5 Andrew J. Foreman made May 25 at 2016 10:55 PM

2016-05-25T22:55:24-04:00

If you are medically retired you can fly space A because you have an ID Card.

From AMC's website

Category VI
Retired military members who are issued DD Form 2 and eligible to receive retired or retainer pay.

Response by LTC Joseph George made May 26 at 2016 5:22 AM

2016-05-26T05:22:50-04:00

See this link
https://amra1973.org/data/files/Can%20the%20Disabled%20Use%20Space%20A(2).pdf

Can%20the%20Disabled%20Use%20Space%20A(2).pdf

Response by SFC Roberto Garza Jr. made May 26 at 2016 10:09 AM

2016-05-26T10:09:29-04:00

Disabled can fly with no restrictions as long as they have a valid ID CARD.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2016 2:15 PM

2016-05-26T14:15:54-04:00

Because they do not fall into the categories allowed on Space A.

Response by MSgt Scott Azbell made Nov 3 at 2016 8:28 PM

2016-11-03T20:28:25-04:00

My understanding is you must have a blue ID card. I.E. Retired

Response by SSgt Harvey "Skip" Porter made Nov 14 at 2017 11:50 AM

2017-11-14T11:50:52-05:00

It should be known that legislation has been introduced by Congressman Heller of Nevada to allow travel for 100 percent total and permanent disable Veterans to use Space A travel.
Many of our Service Connected Disabled Veterans who have been rated 100% Permanent & Total, who served our country and were honorable discharged. Have been passed over and DENIED, the benefit of the Space A Flight Program and the use of these available seats while the category list of eligibility has grown to include DoD Civilian employees, Contractors, Boy Scout Leaders, USO Athletes & Entertainers, Jr & Reg ROTC cadets, teachers, foreign military, the media, nonprofit organizations, and so on. The list is just endless of all those who have been extended this benefit over the years, which mind you, many or none have ever served in the U.S. armed services.
Often many of times these aircraft are flying with most of the seats empty or unoccupied.

It’s time to stop talking about helping Veterans and a start in the right direction would be amending DoD 4515 13-R to include a Category 7 eligibility for our P/T 100% Service Connected Disabled American Veterans. In an effort to support those Veterans that are permanently and totally disabled this benefit could be provided to them at minimal cost by the DOD.
Thank you,

Response by SPC William Guill made Apr 6 at 2018 6:50 AM

2018-04-06T06:50:20-04:00

Bottom Line as of May 2015: Per AMC HQ, regarding H.R. 4435 Amendment 15 stating that 100% disabled veterans can fly Space-A, no guidance has been passed down to terminals to allow this. Until the DoD issues a memo incorporating any changes into DoD's Transportation Regulation (DoDI4515.13) guidance is passed down, 100% disabled veterans remain ineligible for Space-A.

Response by PO3 Bill Taylor made May 2 at 2018 2:59 PM

2018-05-02T14:59:14-04:00

100% DAV Vietnam 67-68. A sad day when DAV military combat related are denied access when so many non military personnel are granted access to space a flights. Vietnam vets always have been neglected and always will be treated terrible. Even the VFW did’t want us when we came home. We are used to it.

Response by PO3 Bill Taylor made May 5 at 2018 6:59 PM

2018-05-05T18:59:09-04:00

Bottom Line, Per AMC HQ, regarding H.R. 4435 Amendment 15 stating that 100% disabled veterans can fly Space-A, no guidance has been passed down to terminals to allow this. Until the DoD issues a memo incorporating any changes into DoD's Transportation Regulation (DoDI4515.13) guidance is passed down, 100% disabled veterans remain ineligible for Space-A.

Response by LCpl Joshua Miranda made Jul 18 at 2018 1:53 AM

2018-07-18T01:53:13-04:00

This will never go into law it’s been permanently shelved.

Response by CPT Charles Hardin made Aug 14 at 2018 10:52 AM

2018-08-14T10:52:15-04:00

Actually with the NDAA signed yesterday by President Trump gives us that benefit. NDAA 2019 Title VI, subpart C, Sec. 642 states that Space A is granted to DAV. If you are holder of red I’d that states DAVPRM/ should be good to go. FY2019 starts 1 October so we should know soon

Response by CPT Charles Hardin made Aug 14 at 2018 1:15 PM

2018-08-14T13:15:17-04:00

Google-text HR5515 John S McCain NDAA. space A is in Titlr VI, Subpart C, Sec 642. The bill has been approved by the Congress and signed by the President. It is current law. FY 2019 HAS A STARTING DATE OF 1 OCTOBER. The way things usually work is that it may take a little while.

Response by CPT Charles Hardin made Aug 14 at 2018 10:48 PM

2018-08-14T22:48:18-04:00

Check the Air Mobility Command web site amc.af.mil has a blurb showing 100%DAV travel approved 13 Aug 2018. Cat VI

Response by SP5 Michael Davis made Aug 19 at 2018 8:51 PM

2018-08-19T20:51:02-04:00

If the space is available and nobody has requested the seat why not just don't waste the seat because not qualified it's not rite

Response by 1st Lt Meghan Anderson made Sep 9 at 2018 1:03 PM

2018-09-09T13:03:21-04:00

I would disagree with the idea that it is because DAV p/t are too physically incapacitated to navigate on their own power to be allowed to fly on a military transport. Most are perfectally able bodied except for old knee, back, head injuries or even psychological disabilities related to their service, but can walk and navigate stairs just fine. Retirees are allowed to travel space A and many are well into their 70s and 80s and mobility is a concern more so than with the average DAV. This omission is simply an oversight that as per usual will take a lot of red tape untangling to rectify. There are standards in place that anyone flying Space A needs to be able to egress on their own power should that be necessary. I was a maintainer as well as being an ATP rated pilot and Air Ambulance crew member - flying since I was 16. This has nothing to do with DAVs being to incapacitated to safely board a plane due to physical limitations. It’s simply an omission.

Response by SGT Kenneth Stelly made Dec 4 at 2018 7:06 AM

2018-12-04T07:06:00-05:00

Guess what, since my last post, 100% permanent and total and TDIU can fly Space A, but only in the United States and it's territories. That is Awesome!

Response by CW2 Elton Barks made Mar 30 at 2019 6:38 PM

2019-03-30T18:38:06-04:00

I was told by a ptsd counselor 100% disabled vets could fly on Space A, but seeing what I'm reading here I wonder if that info was premature. Has Congressman Heller's bill passed into law or do we need to contact our own congress people?

Response by SGT Bobby Stubbs made May 29 at 2019 9:07 PM

2019-05-29T21:07:17-04:00

They s/b allowed on space A

Response by PO2 John Zodun made May 30 at 2019 10:15 PM

2019-05-30T22:15:01-04:00

What is the reason 100% disabled veterans can’t fly space A

Response by PO2 John Zodun made May 30 at 2019 11:36 PM

2019-05-30T23:36:13-04:00

I see they are allowed now great news

Response by AA Guy Ford made Jun 6 at 2019 3:57 PM

2019-06-06T15:57:38-04:00

Why can't disabled veteran fly

Response by CH (CPT) Antonio Arnold made Mar 27 at 2022 12:10 AM

2022-03-27T00:10:14-04:00

I have no idea