Why can't we grow beards?

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 01:00:45 -0500

The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military. Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. Numerous other Allied nations allow their service members to grow beards and have no problem with their SMs utilizing gas masks. Uniformity definitely isn't an issue either, since we have different hairstyles, uniforms, etc. What are your thoughts on this?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 1:04 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 01:04:41 -0500

Personally, I'm getting a LOT of gray hair in my beard.....so I'm keeping it clean shave.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Nov 13 at 2017 1:27 AM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 01:27:02 -0500

I was always told it was to ensure a proper seal on a promask. On that note I have never seen other allied nations who allow facial hair doing mask training. Or the reasoning was to be professional looking. With the other examples you put, hair and tattoos, have standards in policy. Such as length of hair and where tattoos can be on the body. Facial hair is harder to "regulate" outside a mustache or clean shaven.

Personally, I like having a shaven face. My facial hair is itchy and reddish when I allow it to grow in. My beard also does not grow in very thick so I look like a 70's porn star. Or criminal. Same difference. My current civilian job requires being clean shaven just like the Army did so I am happy and used to that rule.

When I was overseas, there was a pool going to try and get me to grow a deployment stache. It got up to about $700 in my pocket if I grew one. The only other person who didn't grow one was my former squad leader, a very respected E-6. He was my hold out, if he grew one I would. And he never did.

Response by 1LT Kevin Chapman made Nov 13 at 2017 2:45 AM

1LT Kevin Chapman — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 02:45:09 -0500

If I could properly grow a beard I'd definitely be all in with that notion lol.

Response by PFC Jonathan Albano made Nov 13 at 2017 3:30 AM

PFC Jonathan Albano — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:30:37 -0500

The gas mask, that's currently in use in our military, doesn't seal properly with facial hair- and I believe you're mistaken in your statement that other nations effectively conduct mask training while sporting a beard. They do allow for beards, however, the only masks I'm aware of that work with beards tend to cost more than a military organization, to include the U.S. Military, are willing to pay for their regular soldiers. Gas masks that work with beards are, until a less expensive model is developed, a pipe dream for all but the Special Forces.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Nov 13 at 2017 3:56 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:56:27 -0500

I am retired. I could grow a beard but still shave , every other day or so. That said, beard friendly Pro Mask for the military are being looked at :
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/03/21/the-makers-of-the-army-s-gas-mask-are-looking-into-beard-friendly-options/

The makers of the Army's gas mask are looking into beard-friendly options

If you ask a soldier why beards are banned, they'll tell you it's because you can't seal your gas mask with one. But that could change.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 4:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 04:14:33 -0500

Proper seal of pro mask, that's it.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Nov 13 at 2017 5:34 AM

SSgt David Tedrow — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 05:34:45 -0500

"The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military."

Not sure what Army you are talking about, with the exception of the tattoos, I really don't believe the Army or any other service, knowingly, allow these issues to the extreme that you are insinuating. We are not like other countries in the way we run our armed forces which is why we are the best in the world. Facial hair has many detractors both in the field and in garrison. Professional appearance is important and policing facial hair is nothing but a headache for commands.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Nov 13 at 2017 6:21 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 06:21:40 -0500

Because you are in the Armed Forces, and there are grooming standards that must be maintained.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 7:29 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:29:15 -0500

SPC Cody Voye- of the items you mentioned, "full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people", which one gives you a professional edge over your opponent? If having a beard helps a Soldier be a better professional then I would be all for it. If not, you don't need it.

Response by SGT David T. made Nov 13 at 2017 7:45 AM

SGT David T. — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:45:06 -0500

General Burnside approves!

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Nov 13 at 2017 7:50 AM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:50:52 -0500

The matter of no beards has, in my opinion if not otherwise, been a matter of hygiene. It's a matter of keeping a clean and orderly living environment in confined quarters i.e. barracks. This was not followed. During WWII in the submarine service beards were often allowed to conserve on fresh water. Regulations were loosened in the 1970s and beard were allowed many places in the fleet. Aside from these examples, beards were only allowed with medical waivers and certain other mission related conditions.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 8:34 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:34:51 -0500

It’s simple economics Cody. We can’t grow beards because some general officer somehwere hasn’t had the opportunity to use that to make money or find his way into congress after service yet. Once that opportunity arrises rest assured that beards will be everywhere.

Response by SCPO Morris Ramsey made Nov 13 at 2017 8:52 AM

SCPO Morris Ramsey — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 08:52:37 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member Doesn’t the Army allow Special Forces personnel to grow a beard when deployed to certain areas. The real reason there are no beards is because about 15 percent of soldiers cannot grow a beard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 9:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:07:14 -0500

IDK , because we still fear the chemical environment and the need to throw that mask on asap. Other wise I think its over rated .

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Nov 13 at 2017 9:49 AM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 09:49:07 -0500

Food for thought: the Army seems to have allowed facial hare at some point. We often see high ranking officers and enlisted members of bygone generations sporting a mustache or a beard. I would be willing to bet that lice and other vectors/detractors were more unchecked back then.

It might be worth considering if it’s just a rule that’s out there.

Response by PFC Eric Parrish made Nov 13 at 2017 10:32 AM

PFC Eric Parrish — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:32:53 -0500

Because your gas mask wont seal and all that good training will be wasted.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Nov 13 at 2017 10:50 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:50:37 -0500

As to the regs, there are exceptions. Quite a number of operators in the sandbox have beards. Typically variances are driven by operational necessity. Part of the definition of "uniform" is to look alike. There are different uniforms, but we're directed to wear specific ones for specific circumstances. I needed my beard in Antarctica so my face didn't stick to cold surfaces or frostbit so easily. Defrosting the ice cube out of the beard at dinner was another story though. For the most part, the grooming standards are part of limiting the variation and keeping things more "uniform". It comes with the job and like all the other regs can be considered a condition of employment. Although still legal in the Navy, the Marines didn't appreciate me showing up on their base in my beard. I didn't need it any more so shaved. The Navy ditched the beard thing around 1980.

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made Nov 13 at 2017 10:56 AM

MSgt Gerald Orvis — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:56:11 -0500

The gas mask reason is the primary reason the various branches of service prohibit beards. But the Navy allowed beards into the 1980's before they were finally prohibited. I recall that Navy men who wanted a beard had to have permission and their ID card photo had to reflect the beard, and they couldn't shave it off without command permission. We had a Navy LT who had a beard, and on the cut-off day for beards, he was a VERY unhappy LT when he came in clean-shaven. While I was on active duty in the Marine Corps, I had a moustache for many years (even while I was on the drill field) - I was careful to keep it exactly within regulations. But one day, my division commander (a MajGen) in Okinawa told a colonel on his staff that there was just something that he didn't like about a moustache on a Marine, and suddenly I was getting called in and told by my LtCol that he'd consider it a personal favor if I shaved it off. So I did - grew it back later when the MajGen realized his error and that he should be more careful what he said.

My study of military history revealed that the 18th and 19th century military services followed civilian trends with regard to appearance - while there were very specific uniform regulations, there were no grooming regulations in the Marine Corps or the other services before the late 1890's. And no gas masks, either. Hence, the Burnside look and (if you look at old military photos), longer hair. I use Custer as an example of that. In the 1890's, civilian fashion changed to short hair and less facial hair (moustaches only). The official excuse was that short hair was to combat head lice, but it was actually following civilian fashion. And that has stuck with us. All this was encapsulated in grooming regulations starting in the WWI period, when the military wanted to prevent head lice and make everybody look alike even more than they had before. And short hair and a clean-shaven face requires so much less care, which is important in a field environment.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Nov 13 at 2017 11:07 AM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 11:07:21 -0500

Because it’s dumb.

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Nov 13 at 2017 1:05 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:05:13 -0500

You want to grow a full beard? Either go into Spec Ops and grow one while deployed or get out completely. Those are your only choices.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 1:07 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:07:33 -0500

Many responders have decided that beards are unprofessional??? I wonder how they came to the conclusion

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Nov 13 at 2017 1:18 PM

MSG Pat Colby — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:18:54 -0500

I got in trouble once for asking a female Major if she had a shaving profile. Good Times!

Response by SSG Jb King made Nov 13 at 2017 1:38 PM

SSG Jb King — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:38:34 -0500

I belive he is referring to the army drug policy, if you refer yourself befor failing a drug test then the army will rehab you. That to me is dangerous due to some mos dealing directly with weapons and live ammo consistently i.e. 11 bravo etc.., then as a former recruiter yes waivers are secured based on monthly numbers and needs of enlistment so at the end of the quarter if numbers are low a uasrec commander can authorize some sketchy waivers to get numbers right. As for beards they have been relaxed grooming standard profiles for socom and attached units for a long time, in country in order to gain respect and acceptance sf teams had beards to blend with indigenous people,as for garrison, the english,scottish,irish,italian,norwegian etc have had ability to grow beards and it has not affected the ability to train or fight. The U.S. Army is HUGE on tradition they notorious for using outdated practices and policies just because it is traditional, that being said to change that mode of thinking in the army is impossible today

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 1:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:39:58 -0500

In time of war the Army needs bodies and may relax the rules for criminal records, but just for combat arms since other MOSs hace more stringent security clearances.

Response by SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres made Nov 13 at 2017 1:54 PM

SGT Jose Perdelia-Torres — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 13:54:18 -0500

I will state that Nations in the Middle East or more correcting stated, "Southwest Asia; don't respect us as Men if we do not have facial hair. They don't consider us real men or anyone in their Nation as a Man, if they do not have facial hair.

I'm going off my personal experiences with talking to individuals etc...

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 13 at 2017 2:11 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:11:15 -0500

Genetics?

;-)

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 2:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 14:22:09 -0500

These comments are great. Standards, not like other countries that's why we are the best? These were all true, till they started letting in mentally unstable self mutilators and boys that want a vagina.

Response by SPC Roger Giffen made Nov 13 at 2017 3:28 PM

SPC Roger Giffen — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:28:05 -0500

You can always get discharged from the US Army and then enlist in any ther Army you wish. Uniformity is uniformity. Regulations are regulations. Just do as you are told and do it as well as you can

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Nov 13 at 2017 3:29 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:29:13 -0500

Beards are highly over rated. upon retiring I grew a full beard; it came in white as snow and while I thought it looked cool it came off the day a waiter told my daughter it was nice that she could go to lunch with her grandpa.

Response by CPT Topher Murphy made Nov 13 at 2017 3:45 PM

CPT Topher Murphy — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:45:01 -0500

First off the initial statement is misleading. The Army doesn't allow psychotic people to serve. If someone lies/misleads about their mental health history that is on them. However as a former Army psychologist I can attest to the fact that those who were psychotic were separated. I had to eval a few down range who had psychotic breaks and were med-evac'd and eventually separated from the Army.

As far as the other issues waivers are required. Criminal history and substance abuse problems almost always catch up with the person. Meaning that past behavior is an indicator of future behavior. I know there are some who were able to turn it around.

Beards are a different animal. Yes a person with a beard can seal the mask in the gas chamber. I've personally observed some Sikh's in my OBLC class do it. I can grow a mean beard myself. However I'm also for uniformity i.e. "one team" mentality.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Nov 13 at 2017 3:50 PM

SGT Tony Clifford — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:50:53 -0500

You are mistaken. All armies prior to world war 1 allowed facial hair. After poison gas was introduced to the battlefield the fancy beards disappeared. Facial hair can prevent the sealing of a promask. Even the religious exceptions to facial hair require that the soldier slather their face with vasciline to get a seal.

Response by COL William Oseles made Nov 13 at 2017 4:23 PM

COL William Oseles — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:23:37 -0500

Given that religious exemptions are given to allow beards the grooming standard is out of date and unbalanced.

Response by SGT Leon Riege made Nov 13 at 2017 4:27 PM

SGT Leon Riege — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 16:27:50 -0500

If you want to grow your beard so badly put in for an 18x mos

Response by SSG Lance Wendling made Nov 13 at 2017 5:07 PM

SSG Lance Wendling — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 17:07:22 -0500

Operators are able to wear beards because not only is shaving nearly 100% impractical for them, but there are times when they need to blend in with indigenous peoples.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 6:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:08:41 -0500

Let the Army Beard Again!

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 13 at 2017 6:10 PM

SPC David S. — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:10:03 -0500

A 2012 study found that facial hair provided some protection from the sun's harmful UV rays. Beards also reduce the rashes and acne that come from shaving, hold in your face's natural moisturizers and trap allergens from entering your airways. Seems like there are benefits.

Response by SPC Jim Martin made Nov 13 at 2017 6:34 PM

SPC Jim Martin — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:34:13 -0500

Lice. Soldiers live in close quarters, like jails and prisons. A lice infestation is hard to beat with long hair and a beard.

Response by PO2 Raven Attwood made Nov 13 at 2017 6:46 PM

PO2 Raven Attwood — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:46:42 -0500

We can't grow beards because of arbitrary and outdated social conventions regarding what a "well groomed" military service member should look like. Regs are regs, of course, and advocating a change is not the same as advocating breaking the rules, but it is a fundamentally arbitrary rule, insofar as not everyone in all forces is in a position to need to be able to use a gas mask at a moment's notice. In other professional environments that do not have these types of rules, men still manage to look well-groomed and professional even with facial hair, and long hair on their heads even.

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Nov 13 at 2017 6:58 PM

SSG Will Phillips — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 18:58:04 -0500

Well SPC Voye, up until the mid 70's Navy enlisted were allowed to wear beards as part of their tradition. And apparently there was an issue with the seal on the protective masks at the time. Tell ya what, figure out a way to get a shaving profile, grow a beard, then do PT conditioning drills 1 thru 6 in a CS chamber. If you get the faintest whiff of CS you are dead if it was a nerve agent. Then you might understand why we do not wear beards. Or are you wanting to imitate being a Green Beret or a Delta Operator?

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Nov 13 at 2017 7:02 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:02:41 -0500

Cuz the Army says no.

Response by SPC Tommy Faircloth made Nov 13 at 2017 7:10 PM

SPC Tommy Faircloth — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:10:06 -0500

What army are you serving in? Yes there may be waivers for certain things but criminal history, alcohol abuse, overweight, and psychotic people are absolutely not allowed entry into the service. The reason why full beards were stopped was because way back in the day when they were allowed, the was no real hygiene in the French trenches of ww1 and one of the things that spread was Lyme disease from fleas getting into the beards. That’s why it is limited to a mustache. Harder for a flea to live in a mustache than it is to live in cheek stubble.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 7:16 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 19:16:27 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member That is the grooming standards. Civilian jobs may allow beards but most do have grooming standards along with a dress code. I do not think beards should be allowed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 8:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:18:24 -0500

Beard conversation aside, the Army used to be a punishment for criminals who could opt for prison or the Army.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 9:35 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:35:55 -0500

Everyone knows the rules either follow them or don’t join. Stop trying to change thing the military. To much has already changed and the military is going soft. The military is about discipline

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2017 10:07 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 22:07:58 -0500

It must be an Army thing. The Air Force don’t let in over weight people. My daughter is trying to join but they told her she has to lose 16lbs first and I haven’t heard about letting people in with dissorders. I know if you are already in and developed a disorder you can stay of it don’t prevent you from duty and if you become over weight after joining than they let you stay in if you can pass a PT test. If you fail 3 PT test in a row you are out the military

Response by PO2 Kevin Parker made Nov 13 at 2017 11:29 PM

PO2 Kevin Parker — Mon, 13 Nov 2017 23:29:37 -0500

Being with the CBRN for over 17yrs! I can say that having a beard would not be a good idea if you had to mask up! Being retired Navy and was in when we could have beards I think it sucks you can't! Although we had to keep our beards properly trimmed so our mask would fit properly! It was hard to actually keep it that way! You being Army and myself being deployed with Army Chemical Company's in Afghanistan and Iraq, I know there would be no time to properly keep a beard trimmed! So basically wait till your out and then grow one.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Nov 14 at 2017 12:38 AM

PO1 Donald Hammond — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 00:38:18 -0500

Beyond the military appearance, and though you claim that beards don't interfere with respirators, you are wrong about that. After I got out of the Navy I did a stint as a safety supervisor at a heavy industrial site. We did "fit tests" for respirators and almost nobody passed if they had a beard. So raise a stink if you will, but don't coming crying to us when you get gassed and die.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 14 at 2017 2:31 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:31:47 -0500

I think you read a false news story somewhere. In the 1990's I worked at USAREC HQ supporting their IT for their enlistment process. All USAREC level waivers and I mean all USAREC level waivers are submitted to Congress for review where the various Congressional staff members cherry pick specific waivers out of the pile and ask the CG of USAREC who usually is sitting before them why he feels the specific waiver is OK and why it was granted. Trust me, they are not going to grant a waiver under that kind of supervisory regime unless they are fairly certain the applicant is not going to represent a danger or a threat to the force.

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Nov 14 at 2017 2:38 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:38:08 -0500

Wow! So, you can walk into your neighbourhood Army Recruiting Station, even though you are a convicted felon, crack addict, schizophrenic paranoid, with wrist to shoulder Disney princess tattoos, and be all you can be? Not likely! Nobody needs to make mission that badly. There are cracks in the system, and some slip through, but it is not norm. Even if it was, the answer isn't to lesson standards, but to tighten them up.

Response by SSgt Thomas L. made Nov 14 at 2017 4:22 AM

SSgt Thomas L. — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 04:22:22 -0500

The answer to your question is, of course, "Murica!"

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 14 at 2017 8:56 AM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 08:56:52 -0500

It would be nice, but can you imagine how unprofessional a lot of soldiers would look.

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Nov 14 at 2017 11:05 AM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 11:05:29 -0500

Given the mental health issues that are no longer disqualifiers, I guess next we will recruit jihadis and felons. I guess those will no longer be an impediment to obtaining a security clearance. And now drone drivers with psychosis will not get into trouble for death by "friendly fire". Such asininities (if that's a word). Who in the HE** is making these decisions?????

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Nov 14 at 2017 12:38 PM

MSG Dan Castaneda — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 12:38:36 -0500

There are units that will let you grow a beard. You have to pay a hefty price to get there though.

Response by SPC David S. made Nov 14 at 2017 1:30 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 13:30:03 -0500

Surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet - "If the Army wanted you to have a beard they would have issued you one"

Response by SSG James Behnke made Nov 14 at 2017 11:52 PM

SSG James Behnke — Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:52:49 -0500

Your argument for beards includes quite a few insinuations and mischaracterizations. To say the Army now allows "psychotic" people to join is not just an exaggeration, but downright false. I believe you have higher standards than that. Do some real research or don't include statements like that.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Nov 15 at 2017 4:24 PM

SSG John Jensen — Wed, 15 Nov 2017 16:24:28 -0500

if it hasn't changed since I retired - what you are authorized to wear off-duty is a dress code from the 1950s
Early in WWi uncle Adolf had a full handlebar moustache which he trimmed to its infamous shape for the gas mask.
The whole military short hair thing was all about lice - in all of world history (includes the Bible) Warriors never cut their hair - who had short hair?? - Slaves!
Had a CSM once who had decided that paratroopers didn't have moustaches - took standards to the extreme, my Plt SGT who never wore a moustache before was one of the lucky guys who could do a pencil-thin-moustach and so wore it the whole time that CSM was there

Response by MAJ Raymond Haynes made Nov 16 at 2017 1:24 AM

MAJ Raymond Haynes — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:24:27 -0500

I think the issue returns back to the issue of uniform apperance. If beards are allowed to be a matter of choice, there will always be the guy who has no business growing one. His appearance will just be one step above homeless. In addition, after a epic weekend, I don't have the energy to shave for Monday's formation. The obivious answer is I'm starting a beard. I will change my mind about Thursday. A clean shave equalizes the peach-fuzz and Brillo face military members, including the females.

Response by SSG James Mielke made Nov 17 at 2017 4:49 PM

SSG James Mielke — Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:49:44 -0500

Well Specialist, let me address this point by point.
The Army has always allowed people with tattoos (some motifs are not allowed) to enlist. You sign a contract and they "own" you as you are, tats and all. However, there is a little used, seldom enforced regulation that keeps you from getting more tattoos while your contract is still valid; it is covered under the defacement of government property, which you technically are. This little piece of AR can also be brought to bear should you get a sunburn bad enough to keep you from being able to wear your uniform.
People with criminal histories, past drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight issues have, for the most part, been able to get waivers for enlistment but have always been "encouraged" to do their best to conform to Army regulations or risk being put out for non-conformity.
The "psychotic" people you mention is a relatively new thing but I am sure there are or will be waivers available for this as well, within certain limitations. People with chronic health issues that require a regular medication are often not allowed to enlist, i.e, epilepsy, diabetes and the like.
And face it, after you spend time being on the wrong end of some dune-coon's AK, or have been fortunate enough to arrange a few meeting with Allah for those poor bastards, are not we all a bit 'psychotic'?
You need not worry about what our allies do in regards to their military. You are not in their military, so the comparison is irrelevant.
Last I checked, US Army hairstyle regulations was covered under AR 670-1. If you are seeing soldiers with hair not conforming to that reg, then you are obligated to make an on the spot correction, regardless of their rank. Except for Generals, they can get away with that shit.
What do you mean "We have different uniforms"? The Us Army has its uniforms (duty, dress) and they have their authorized variations. Again, if you see someone not in compliance to the regs you are obligated to make the correction (see The General's Exception).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2017 7:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Nov 2017 19:57:09 -0500

Ever tried putting on your gas mask and getting a 100% tight seal with a beard? Yes it is because the military says so but also because of readiness.

Response by SPC Lee Stevens made Nov 20 at 2017 4:06 AM

SPC Lee Stevens — Mon, 20 Nov 2017 04:06:33 -0500

GAS, GAS, GAS
You're dead!
All because you wanted to grow a beard.

Response by PO3 William Carrien made Nov 26 at 2017 10:59 AM

PO3 William Carrien — Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:59:02 -0500

Honor, adherence to orders and the UCMJ say so. Also personal safety. Have you ever tried to put one on a gas mask with a beard?

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Nov 27 at 2017 12:31 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:31:52 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member: Specialist Voye- I had Absolutely No idea that these kinds of people were allowed to enlist in the United States Army. I believe that all of this will be a detriment to today's Army.
-Most Sincerely, Margaret C. Higgins U.S. Army Retired

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Nov 27 at 2017 6:32 PM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:32:37 -0500

Spc Cody Voye;
It seems there are those that want to buck the standards for uniform wear to wear beards based on other country’s standards.. “because they allow it”.
The U.S. has it’s standards and those other countries have theirs. We are Not them and they are NOT us.. enough said.!

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Nov 27 at 2017 6:40 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:40:50 -0500

Clean shaven looks professional. Have you noticed what people look like after they leave the military lately? They certainly don't have 'white-collar' positions.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2017 8:58 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:58:32 -0500

Going to the original question with beards, I would say its because nothing else you listed above hinders an individual from wearing a gas mask or other forms of masks. A beard would hinder the wearing of these masks .

Response by LTC John Bush made Jan 12 at 2018 10:04 AM

LTC John Bush — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:04:05 -0500

Your protective mask will not seal. little known fact Hitler had a short mustache because during WWI when he got gassed his mask did not seal over his traditional long German mustache. Unfortunately he recovered.

Response by MSG Timothy Smith made Jan 18 at 2018 3:14 PM

MSG Timothy Smith — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:14:40 -0500

These are questions that we asked back in the 70's. Wasn't resolved then, and it won't be now.

Response by SPC Thomas Smith made Jan 18 at 2018 3:36 PM

SPC Thomas Smith — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:36:53 -0500

Wow there are a lot of angry people on here. Well if u are all OK with it I will put in my two cent. As far as a beard is concerned I believe the answer is simple. There are to many ways to grow them and therefore they will not be informed. After all what would be the length limited. What about thickness and shape and color. Who isn't set this regulation and do we make every grow one or just those who want it? To me the answer is simply there are to any options to control. I had a mustache when I was in and I kept it in regulation S. So no I am not against them. But I can give two stories to maybe help with this conversation. 1. We had a brigade meeting one time and the colonel gave a speech and part of his speech was on mustaches. Thing he said is that we had a right to them but he did not see why we would cultivate on our faces what he grew naturally on him ass. Now I have to admit I kept my mustache for years but everytime I shaved and trimmed it I had to think of this an and his ass. No I don't wear one anymore. Now the other story. We had a soldier who decided that he was an individual once and that his body was his and he could do what he wants. Well he decided to get a porcupine designed in his hair and showed up to formation with it. Well needless to say he found out that as a soldier your body does not belong to you and you are not a citizen that can make your own choices

Response by SSG Samuel Fortune made Jan 18 at 2018 5:43 PM

SSG Samuel Fortune — Thu, 18 Jan 2018 17:43:31 -0500

Cause your pro mask won’t seal properly.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2018 4:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 16:34:37 -0500

what Army doesn’t have an issue sealing their promask with beards?? Interested to know why we haven’t invested in this technology....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2018 4:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 23 Jan 2018 04:01:06 -0500

Inhibits the seal on your Pro Mask.

Response by MAJ Ronald Mandell made Jan 24 at 2018 9:27 AM

MAJ Ronald Mandell — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:27:24 -0500

I shouldn't wonder why. Go ahead. Insult a field grade officer. See if it helps you career.

Response by MAJ Ronald Mandell made Jan 24 at 2018 9:51 AM

MAJ Ronald Mandell — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:51:42 -0500

I believe that each of the armed forces wants to appear to be professional and clean-cut in the eyes of the public they serve, pure and simple. I could not imagine Marines with beards, ear rings, nose rings, lip rings, etc. Marines take pride in being and looking squared away. I think the leaders of the other services at least want to stay in the same universe as the Marines. There was a time in the late '70sm when Admiral Zumwalt (I believe his name was) allowed sailors to grow beards. It didn't last long, because it just wasn't accepted by the public at large, as what they expected of their servicemen. I know that every time I saw a sailor with a beard, I winced.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Jan 24 at 2018 9:54 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 09:54:31 -0500

SPC, because you can't, that's the rules.

Response by SPC Matthew Riley made Jan 27 at 2018 1:03 AM

SPC Matthew Riley — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 01:03:14 -0500

Historically speaking you can blame the Gillette company. Back in ww2 they got the contract to sell solely the the military for big profit and solidified it with the claim that a clean shaven face would have a better deal with their gas masks.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2018 11:12 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:12:27 -0500

Talk to Germans and Danes. They aren't as much beards as it is a week of scruff, so the mask still seals. Makes sense and I'm sure the Army would get behind it, but.................
We have idiots in the Army, lots of em. Look how many people can't even do a shaving profile properly. I've seen countless soldiers with "shaving profiles" who instead of just keeping the affected area to the length prescribed by the doc, they have perfectly lined up facial hair, like done by a barber. That is why they won't even hear the idea of letting some facial hair be allowed. Because Soldiers will push the limits and try to get away with stuff, making it all look bad. Yes some soldiers ruin things for everybody. If you really want a beard, go SOF and deploy to CENTCOM, that's about the only way while serving.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 28 at 2018 2:00 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 28 Jan 2018 14:00:07 -0500

"Clearly the Army isn't worried about looking professional or being professional. "
Your argument died at this very moment in your post

Response by SPC Tommy Dean made Jan 31 at 2018 4:55 PM

SPC Tommy Dean — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 16:55:22 -0500

Because you may be mistaken for a muslim that stole an American uniform and get your ass shot.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2018 11:38 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 11:38:50 -0500

I'm all for the uniform standards. I spent 18 years in the Army and understand that the regulations loosened up during my time and although I hated shaving every day I did it because it was what I was supposed to do. When I finally got burned out with the service I didn't re-up and threw away my razors lol. Haven't shaved my face since and although I was a little upset at first that my beard is mostly gray and I wasted my best beard years beard less I rock the beard with pride now. It's all just part of the game and if I saw all sorts of different soldiers walking around with full beards or even stubble without a profile I'd probably have my final heart attack lol

Response by Sgt William Biggs made Feb 1 at 2018 1:04 PM

Sgt William Biggs — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 13:04:28 -0500

The age old question. It's because it would make us happy (haha)

Response by SFC Dennis A. made Feb 2 at 2018 2:12 PM

SFC Dennis A. — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 14:12:43 -0500

There are many reasons but at the top of my list would be "try to seal your mask with a beard".

Response by CPL Darlene Foley made Feb 5 at 2018 12:52 AM

CPL Darlene Foley — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 00:52:48 -0500

My understanding when I was in the Army was that it could be dangerous in hand-to-hand combat. The same reason long hair is not permitted.

Response by FN Charlie Spivey made Feb 12 at 2018 8:13 AM

FN Charlie Spivey — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 08:13:26 -0500

We were told that we could grow a Mustache / Beard as long as our ID card picture showed us with one. Actually, aboard ship, it was no problem, but it had better be gone when you hit port before you went ashore. This was CG. I don't know what the Navy Regs were.

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made Feb 16 at 2018 11:52 AM

Sgt Anthony Leverington — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:52:05 -0500

Allowing soldiers to grow hair is often mission or region specific.
I went TDY once to an Army base (can't say where) where all the soldiers there had long hair and facial hair. Of course, having never been exposed to that look on an active duty soldier, I thought "WOW, this is a really laid back base". I soon learned every single one of them were Army DEA and they had to be able to blend in with the locals.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Feb 16 at 2018 9:04 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 21:04:52 -0500

Sp4 Byron Skinner. Back in ancient times when all knuckle draggers could have facial hair overseas in a combat theater it was up to you unit commander and in fact I had facial hair during my combat your and the months I spent in Letterman Medical Center, hey what were you going to do sent me to Vietnam? I don't think giving a court marshal to a Vietnam amputee for some chin whiskers was exactly the kind of publicity the Medical Holding Company who was full of very religious people, prying they wouldn't get orders for deployment to "Nam". Solution terminal leave for three months. The mailman presented me with my Army Retirement certificate and medals.

Response by MCPO Kurt Stauff made Feb 25 at 2018 5:43 PM

MCPO Kurt Stauff — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:43:35 -0500

I joined the Navy in 1983, when beards were allowed, within specifications. When I made PO3 (E4), I had to put in a special request chit to grow a Navy-regulation beard--this was in 1984. I was able to get a 30-day leave period between my "C" schools and had time to grow a decent beard. I got back to that final "C" school and in a weekly inspection a particularly tough female warrant officer was inspecting my class, finding less than polished belt buckles, scuffed shoes, and "irish pennants" that went down as negative marks against the Sailors. When she reached me, she squared away her fireplug bulk, looked me up and down, and said,"That's a fine-looking beard, Sailor! Give this man an outstanding!" Well, that was worth a special liberty pass, so I was ecstatic.

When I reported to my first sub in Groton, CT, in December, the Chief of the Boat (COB) welcomed me aboard then told me gruffly to shave my beard off because 'the Captain didn't like them', and I was due to meet him the next morning. The Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) at the time had declared that beards would be banned on January 1st, 1985, anyway; so went the experience of my Navy beard. Since I've retired, I have grown a beard, off and on, but it is too fussy to keep well-trimmed, and is more efficient to keep clean-shaven.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2018 6:53 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 18:53:09 -0500

I guess because in the military we are under threat and need to be ready to use a gas mask, facial hair will not let the gas mask seal properly.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2018 12:14 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 00:14:53 -0500

Protective mask seal?

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2018 10:15 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:15:54 -0500

So I had heard at one point that they were testing the beards In the military.
There is a unit somewhere doing tests with the PT test with beards. Of course the beard does need to be neatly trimmed. But all these tests and the moral component of it as well. If the army allows beards you may have a happier fighting force.

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Feb 26 at 2018 10:07 PM

SSgt Liam Babington — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:07:23 -0500

Well rules are rules!

Response by SGT Roger Bunton made Mar 4 at 2018 8:46 PM

SGT Roger Bunton — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 20:46:22 -0500

Cannot seal a gas mask with facial hair

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 4 at 2018 10:37 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 22:37:57 -0500

Beard will probably be allowed - in about 20 years. Hang in there.

Response by LTC David Stark made Mar 8 at 2018 3:51 PM

LTC David Stark — Thu, 08 Mar 2018 15:51:43 -0500

During my active duty career, I spent several years designing and working on the M40-series protective mask at Aberdeen Proving Ground. One of the tests we performed put a Soldier into a chamber filled with a corn oil aerosol, and we measured how much aerosol leaked into the mask as the Soldier performed a series of exercises. Our tests showed that the leakage caused by a SINGLE HUMAN HAIR under the mask periphery was enough to result in meiosis (pinpointing of the pupils) in a typical field concentration of nerve agent, and prolonged exposure to that same leakage would result in incapacitation and death. A full beard would be deadly under those same circumstances.

Admittedly, under the current threat environment, nerve agent exposure is unlikely, but would you really want to risk it when circumstances can change so quickly in the modern world, just so you could be furry and impress some girl?

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Mar 13 at 2018 10:39 AM

1SG Dave Carello — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:39:47 -0400

Specialist. How are you going to properly don and seal your protective mask wearing a beard? Not to mention, grooming, uniformity, cleaning and overall appearance.

Response by SFC Donald Souza made Mar 13 at 2018 5:37 PM

SFC Donald Souza — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:37:15 -0400

The main reason is very simple protective mask

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 6:08 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 18:08:58 -0400

Genetics I guess.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2018 10:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 22:51:30 -0400

It's that way because our regs are out of date and no one will change anything because we've only trained yes men for the last couple decades

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 12:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 00:14:36 -0400

Because this Army is still reflecting the societal standards of olden days when gentlemen were soldiers, and those soldiers were well groomed. The Army should reflect its population so yeah, let’s throw in mandatory man buns, beards, and tide pods in MREs

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 1:46 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 01:46:30 -0400

Your question is honestly written in a very negative construct and based on a false premise. You state “clearly the army isn’t worried about looking professional or being professional. “ you are simply mistake. They are concerned and most are very professional. But remember we in the military reflect society at large and society as large is incredibly confused right now and seeing the military members come from the national population there will be some of that confusion. We also are a diverse people and celebrate a degree of both diversity WITHIN a standardized uniformity. Are we often hypocritical because we bend to every or many politically correct whims? Yes. But what is needed is holding to a standard more often not throwing all standards out the window because we are not always consistent

Response by SSgt James Bauchert made Mar 14 at 2018 9:40 AM

SSgt James Bauchert — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:40:53 -0400

On the other hand, when you watch the French Foreign Legion on parade and you see the leaders of their units, the grenidiers, marching with full beards, wearing leather butcher aprons and carrying axes at right shoulder, you just know know you are looking at the baddest of the bad.

Response by Sgt Tee Organ made Mar 14 at 2018 9:44 AM

Sgt Tee Organ — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:44:23 -0400

Because you don't hide like a rat!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 9:48 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 09:48:37 -0400

Many of the responses here are exactly what leads to incompetent Soldiers. Telling someone, "It's what the regulation is. Just do it," helps no one and shows you're incapable of thinking through a problem or regulation. If there's a warranted reason for not allowing Soldiers to grow a beard, then state it. If there's not, stop using the, "Well, it's what we've always done so just do it that way." That's the type of thinking that makes our military inefficient.

Response by SSG David Palomarez made Mar 14 at 2018 1:01 PM

SSG David Palomarez — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 13:01:02 -0400

Standards are made for a reasons and yes the army has stepped off more then they should of. They really do need to get back to up holding the standards that are in place. Now times are changing understand that so yes I can see something that can be changed. Dress uniform should be worn if not out in the field or if you job IE motor pool jobs or equipment operators. But if you work in an S shop or an office. You should be in dress uniform. And still feel you shouldnt be off post in uniform unless you are picking something up and not just looking around. And facial stop bitching you know when you joined so shut the fuck up

Response by SGT Philip Keys made Mar 14 at 2018 4:29 PM

SGT Philip Keys — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 16:29:46 -0400

Hell the military in general has all sorts of things that would never happen when i was in. If they can put their masks on let them have beards. Most of these new things I wouldn't want in the military, I'll just let you all figure out what I'm talking about.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Mar 14 at 2018 4:32 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 16:32:02 -0400

You want a beard profile, go into Special Operations and spend the majority of your life in a shit hole somewhere overseas.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 5:45 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:45:42 -0400

Have you ever tried to put on a gas mask with a beard or long hair so tactically does not make sense to have facial hair

Response by SSG Dale London made Mar 14 at 2018 7:46 PM

SSG Dale London — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 19:46:22 -0400

Really brief history lesson - beards were allowed up until WWI, when it was discovered that beards interfered with the proper operation of the gas mask. They've been verboten ever since. And it's still true today. If you wear a gas mask with a beard, it leaks.

Response by 1SG Rob Smith made Mar 14 at 2018 8:13 PM

1SG Rob Smith — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 20:13:10 -0400

How long have you been in boy. I have been retired in served longer than you have been alive. You are part of the Y generation. ALL I CAN SAY IS AS A FORMER COMBAT ENGINEER. DO WHAT YOU WANT! BUT YOU WILL CAUSE THE WHOLE GROUP TO SUFFER. PEER PRESSURE IS THE BEST CORRECTIVE TRAINING!

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 11:38 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:38:39 -0400

Ok, so....what really concerns me about the “beardgate” discussion is that we are men. Most of us have a God given genetic ability to grow a full badass beard. Now, with that said. We as men should not be concerned only with the professionalism of the beard. Hell, it’s a symbol of masculinity. It looks damn good and profession in just about any situation. Again, we are men arguing the professionalism of our own facial hair. Doesn’t that seem odd??? You will tell me that an Soldier in the Special Operations community looks cool and professional, but all of a sudden you see average GI Joe with a beard and he’s out of uniform?? Give me a break! If we as a society and an Army are trying to be more politically correct, then we shouldn’t simply make concessions for religious purposes. If that’s the case then the pastafari Soldier should be able to wear a camo colander. Let’s push beyond the argument of Masks and professionalism. Afterall....we are men

Response by SFC Wayne T made Mar 14 at 2018 11:55 PM

SFC Wayne T — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:55:12 -0400

This why your a young specialist. I’m not going to start quoting AR670-1 and 601-210. The tattoo thing just changed not too long ago. Maybe a year now. Tattoos were once taboo. Now every soccer mom has them. The Army has to evolve. Now the whole thing we are letting criminals and other people in. Wrong!! Do you know to qualify for the military the percentage is less than 5% that qualify. Is everyone truthful upon enlistment? Hell no!! Do recruiters coach their potential enlistments? Hell no!! Yeah right... so the beard thing. 3 words GAS GAS GAS.. your now choking on your own puke, blurred vision and tightness of your chest. And your buddy is going to stab you with a giant needle. If you want a beard. You can always join the navy.

Response by Cpl Kevin Seddon made Mar 15 at 2018 9:10 AM

Cpl Kevin Seddon — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 09:10:24 -0400

I think the army should stop bitching like a college kid and do it's job. You are an imbarrassment to the history of the army.

Response by SGT Eric Vazquez made Mar 15 at 2018 1:32 PM

SGT Eric Vazquez — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 13:32:36 -0400

So you want to grow a beard, check rog. Go SF or get out those are your options. You want to look like a video game character? Get out and go contract. Too easy you already don't have to shine boots or be a man what more you want lol

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 2:17 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:17:49 -0400

I'm a private and personally I think it looks bad when soldiers have profiles. Maybe it wouldn't look so bad longer and Fuller but the second asu's get put on it's gotta go.

Response by Matt Moon made Mar 15 at 2018 3:39 PM

Matt Moon — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 15:39:48 -0400

Your gas mask won't fit properly. The other resson it prevents lice . A clean shave and haircut makes for a better and more professional uniform appearance.

Response by SPC Bryan Gustafson made Mar 15 at 2018 10:48 PM

SPC Bryan Gustafson — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 22:48:35 -0400

The official reason that the Army has provided in the past is thatthe facial hair will the chemical mask from getting a proper seal. I'm not entirely satisfied this is true, particularly if facial hair is kept neat and trimmed.

Response by MAJ Milan George made Mar 15 at 2018 11:10 PM

MAJ Milan George — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:10:45 -0400

Grow a beard, put on a mask and enter the gas chamber. If you can show me that it seals, I’ll Support your arguement..but I don’t think I’m in danger of having to agree with your invalid point.

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Mar 15 at 2018 11:12 PM

SSG Will Phillips — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 23:12:19 -0400

Are you friggin serious?? A few days stubble is one thing with a beard is another when it comes to a proper seal on your gas mask. Just because some other countries say it does not matter, do you want to trust your life with that? Or are you wanting to emulate the full beard SF type operators? Your a Spec-4. You should have better things on your mind than wanting to grow a beard. Like your next performance evaluation so that you can get promoted.
There I said it just as I would have told one of my squad members.
Get your priorities straight if you want a military career.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 1:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:25:32 -0400

Gas mask you need to be able to get a seal with them. Beards are overrated anyway.

Response by SPC Roberto Rojas made Mar 16 at 2018 2:47 PM

SPC Roberto Rojas — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 14:47:34 -0400

Growing a beard while service to nation is more of a tool to identify with local tribes in patriarchal societies. The beard is for gaining trust as well as showing the right of passage of men. When there is no NBC threat it is common for operators to do this. Personally I would prefer to a clean shave to ensure a proper seal on a has mask because in the unlikely chance that the enemy would get their hands on and deploy a nerve agent I wouldn't want to do the kickin chicken in a gunfight. CIB US Army Infantryman.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 3:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 15:02:50 -0400

Grow a beard, apply your pro-mask. Tell me how well it seals.

Response by LTC Jon Spano made Mar 16 at 2018 8:23 PM

LTC Jon Spano — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:23:02 -0400

Spec Voye, What makes you think you have the right to even ask that question. When you signed up did you know the regulation prohibited beards? Anyway Son I would hate to have mistaken you for an Iraq Solider and shit you!! Now are those two reason enough you youor do you need for it to be explained in a court marshal. The choice is yours.
KinJ. Spano Ltc(Ret)
USAR , Combat Engineers

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Mar 16 at 2018 11:20 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 23:20:23 -0400

I tried to grow a beard when I was in the Navy, but I never could get it to fill out. Now, I'm laughing out loud at my own self.

Response by Sgt Richard Sprague made Mar 17 at 2018 12:13 AM

Sgt Richard Sprague — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 00:13:50 -0400

SPC Cody Vote, which allied nations are you referring to that allow their service members to wear beards. If a nation authorizes their military members to wear beards it is usually for medical, religious, or cultural exemptions. Besides that the majority on nations do not authorize the wearing of beards by their military members.

Response by Megan Turner made Mar 17 at 2018 7:27 AM

Megan Turner — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 07:27:51 -0400

Actually idk about the overweight one. I don’t meet the height weight requirement but couldn’t get in. I went 4 years ROTC had my own platoon, was an officer, marksman and can do their PT test. But because I’m a little overweight I couldn’t join. But now I’m too old to join.

Response by SSG Daniel Lynn made Mar 17 at 2018 7:37 AM

SSG Daniel Lynn — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 07:37:16 -0400

I believe the trumping argument for clean shaven is to get a proper seal for the protective mask. Those beards may look study but are going to get you killed in a saren gas attack.

Response by SSG John Mitchell made Mar 17 at 2018 11:13 AM

SSG John Mitchell — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 11:13:32 -0400

Sadly, at the height of deployments, Recruitment Standards were relaxed. Some of those people used the opportunity to turn their life around until they were no longer needed & Uncle Sam showed 'em the door.

Response by Al Kluna made Mar 17 at 2018 4:14 PM

Al Kluna — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 16:14:52 -0400

if you are stationed in a arab country you stand out due to skin pigment so a full beard is necessary to try to blend in,even that doesn't always work

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2018 10:27 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:27:43 -0400

The reason I haven’t heard is that your mask won’t properly seal with a beard

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 17 at 2018 10:36 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:36:09 -0400

The Army hasn't allowed beards since the late 1800s. First it was for mostly hygienic purposes - no need to have lice in your beard. More recently, they rational is that you can't get a good seal with your protective mask with a beard. On the other hand, the Army does allow a religious exemption for Sikhs. I doubt the policy will change any time soon. Go SF if you want a beard.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2018 6:32 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 06:32:14 -0400

The gas mask point has been beaten to death already, as well as the point of SOF guys in CENTCOM.

As much as I would love a beard, try to look at this from the point of view of a commanding officer. Uniform appearance would be impossible with some men growing beards, some not, some people skating the regs with loopholes coming in with ridiculous sideburns. You would have some people lining up and edging their beards, and barely post pubescent 18 year olds coming in with patchwork scraggle faces. Partial goatees, handlebar moustaches. Some guys have bad enough hygiene as it is, which would get worse with unwashed beards
Of course you would have heard regulations as we do with no shave chits. But the entire policy would be a constant headache of enforcement. And it's just so much simpler to tell everyone to shave. Because everyone can shave equally.

It's not just the military. Many civilian companies require employees to maintain similar grooming standards.

It's possible to have professional standards and hygiene with beards but it is much easier with clean shaven men.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2018 9:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 09:36:24 -0400

So much real life stupidity, the only argument left against facial is actually a very important one. Chemical warfare is a real part of planning and preparing for future wars now and facial hair can, will and does interfere with seal of your pro mask. So I ask you simply if your facial hair is worth dieing for?

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 18 at 2018 12:47 PM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 12:47:04 -0400

cause your not a Civilian Quit trying to change the Military. Besides most folks that Grow a Beard Look like a rag Head.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2018 1:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 13:35:50 -0400

Is the protective mask reason not a reason any longer?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 11:22 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:22:35 -0400

I have a pretty simple solution: Deployed, (combat zone) grow a beard. In the field, grow a beard. However in Garrison, clean shaved at all times. And make the first two I mentioned commander's descretion.

Response by SMSgt Randy Wallace made Mar 19 at 2018 1:59 PM

SMSgt Randy Wallace — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:59:19 -0400

If you look sharp and professional, chances are you’ll be sharp and professional.

Response by SFC James Beason made Mar 19 at 2018 2:00 PM

SFC James Beason — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 14:00:25 -0400

In Vietnam, we only stopped shaving on operations, in base camp it was shave every day .

Response by SGT John Price made Mar 19 at 2018 3:59 PM

SGT John Price — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:59:56 -0400

The real reason is because we still remember a hard lesson from the First World War. The rubber on your pro mask has trouble creating a perfect seel if you have any facial hair.

Response by SN Earl Fullmer made Mar 19 at 2018 4:21 PM

SN Earl Fullmer — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:21:38 -0400

When in Service I did have facial hair but trimmed within Navy guidelines of the time. Fortunately my beard was not as grizzled nor full as now some 40 years later...

Response by SFC Robert Adams made Mar 19 at 2018 4:54 PM

SFC Robert Adams — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:54:29 -0400

Stop whining. Professionals must look as such. We are not other countries military. Glad I have been retired for 27 years.

Response by SPC Robert Gibbs made Mar 19 at 2018 7:37 PM

SPC Robert Gibbs — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:37:43 -0400

The only exception is special ops. Working under cover in another country. Mainly to fit in.

Response by SPC Arthur Cox made Mar 19 at 2018 7:38 PM

SPC Arthur Cox — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:38:57 -0400

Eliminate the ban. Go for it.

Response by SPC Alexander Witmer made Mar 19 at 2018 9:20 PM

SPC Alexander Witmer — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:20:25 -0400

Because your CSM grows out a beard that looks like he glued a 12yos first pubic growth onto his face, and he hates you for your luxurious beard.

Response by CW2 Michael Artley made Mar 19 at 2018 10:45 PM

CW2 Michael Artley — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 22:45:06 -0400

Hygiene is also an important consideration. It is extremely difficult to keep a beard clean and germ free. Ground combat is far different from sea duty, a beard can interfere with mask seals, standards would be very difficult maintain and enforce.

Response by PFC Ryan Battista made Mar 19 at 2018 11:05 PM

PFC Ryan Battista — Mon, 19 Mar 2018 23:05:47 -0400

The idea of short hair being associated with military professionalism has two sources: hygiene and hand-hand combat. Short hair is less likely to develop filth and lice, and can not be used to restrain you by an opponent. Operators and SOF guys grow beards for cultural reasons, because they have to interact with village elders and leaders who associate facial hair with authority and virility.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 12:53 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 00:53:32 -0400

Go ahead and grow a Jerry Garcia beard and stand in the gas chamber with your mask. Lemme know how it goes.

Response by Cpl Jarrod Anderson made Mar 20 at 2018 7:43 AM

Cpl Jarrod Anderson — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 07:43:29 -0400

Because you are an American service member and we go by our own standards

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 10:45 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:45:25 -0400

It is also a matter of hygiene

Response by SFC Henry C Davis made Mar 20 at 2018 11:00 AM

SFC Henry C Davis — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:00:02 -0400

No fan of beards or Tattoos

Response by 1SG Ben Gibbins made Mar 20 at 2018 11:13 AM

1SG Ben Gibbins — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:13:34 -0400

This post has some generalities as it pertains to accessions. If I understand the arguement, it appears you belive standards for joining are low and because of that you are asking why not allow beards. My thoughts are, if the standards are actually as low as you say they are then standards need to reevaluted. AR 601-210 covers enlistment criterea.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 11:39 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:39:31 -0400

Do tell, how does facial hair detract from a professional appearance? I personally think that answer is just a scapegoat for not writing a policy on it, honestly.

I mean, it would take time from writing policies on all the other great things we have policies on.

Response by Sgt James Bryant made Mar 20 at 2018 11:45 AM

Sgt James Bryant — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:45:40 -0400

I can remember when the Navy banned Navy Chiefs from wearing beards.

Response by SGT Joseph Ducheneaux made Mar 20 at 2018 12:33 PM

SGT Joseph Ducheneaux — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:33:19 -0400

I guess you wanna look cool like those badass delta guys? Go do the training and get that job so you can wear your beard. Lol

Response by SSgt Ken Shefveland made Mar 20 at 2018 12:58 PM

SSgt Ken Shefveland — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:58:11 -0400

Sorry, old-school guy: clean-shaven, high & tight, tatoos covered.

Response by SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman made Mar 20 at 2018 1:43 PM

SP5 Ronald R Glaeseman — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:43:41 -0400

You can't grow a beard because then you would look like you're in the Dutch Army.

Response by SGT Marc Morris made Mar 20 at 2018 1:53 PM

SGT Marc Morris — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:53:00 -0400

Rules are rules if you want a beard four years of ranger service then apply for SF if your accepted and you complete your training you might be in a position to grow a beard for a little bit but you are in the army

Response by SSG Dennis Grossmann made Mar 20 at 2018 4:14 PM

SSG Dennis Grossmann — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:14:05 -0400

If you want facial hair, apply for SOCOM, pass the courses and deploy.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 5:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:06:42 -0400

I'd be happy even without the clean shave requirement. Not necessarily full on lumbersexual

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 20 at 2018 5:58 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 17:58:18 -0400

Go back and read up how wonderful chlorine gas, Lewisite, mustard agent and a few other wonderful hold overs from World War I & II were for troops who had no protective gear, or could get a seal around their face. Maybe if your lucky you can go to a class at Aberdeen or Fort Detrick to see what those wonderful weapons of warfare do to the dermis and other areas of the body.

Or read up on the Nazi attack on Barri Harbor in Italy and the effects their bombs had on one of cargo ships that was carrying chemical weapons and how the locals just love swimming in the harbor. Or you can read about the employee who a few years ago came across a mustard shell at the old American University in Washington DC and how a 70 year old shell gave him mustard burns from where it made contact with his exposed skin.

Read up on Stalingrad and see that the Russian's moved several field hospitals near there and that there was outbreak of a disease near there about the times the Germans were getting overrun.
We are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past if we do not study history.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 6:03 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:03:36 -0400

Its allowed oconus with special forces...

Response by Pvt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 7:02 PM

Pvt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 19:02:18 -0400

The United States armed forces are held to higher standard than the rest.

Response by Sgt Dwight Carlton made Mar 20 at 2018 8:20 PM

Sgt Dwight Carlton — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 20:20:15 -0400

That’s horseshit, the facial hair issue will always be the unanswerable question, you just have to be the right religion or have s shaving waiver....

Response by Capt Greg Howard made Mar 20 at 2018 8:30 PM

Capt Greg Howard — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 20:30:41 -0400

Difficult to make a gas mask seat properly with a beard.

Response by PFC Greg Ehler made Mar 20 at 2018 9:24 PM

PFC Greg Ehler — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 21:24:02 -0400

Short version: beards interfere with NBC equipment...

Response by SPC Ray Seppala made Mar 20 at 2018 9:50 PM

SPC Ray Seppala — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 21:50:35 -0400

Have a friend with full sleave and they wouldn't let him join

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 11:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:02:20 -0400

It seems to work fine for Gman at Fort Polk

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Mar 20 at 2018 11:32 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:32:27 -0400

Just an FYI; your post keeps recycling back. It originally came out "Posted on Nov 13, 2017."

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 20 at 2018 11:36 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:36:29 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member You should run for Congress. 670-1. Because. Why should we?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2018 11:49 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 23:49:20 -0400

Who gives a S#&^

Response by Duane Weimerskirch made Mar 21 at 2018 2:43 AM

Duane Weimerskirch — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 02:43:38 -0400

Do we really run our own military or is that what the United Nations tells the puppets to say ? It is why I couldn't reenlist, because I ask questions . If we truly had standards then haji would have to shave. I say bullshit on religious stuff. If they are there to protect America then get the fuck in uniform or get out. I don't care about tattoos anymore than the govt cares for our troops .

Response by SR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 4:52 AM

SR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 04:52:24 -0400

The no facial hair comes down to gass masks, that’s why the Navy allows a mustache but not a beard

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 8:02 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 08:02:13 -0400

Personally, I don't think you should have to go baby face throughout military career. But the Command wants it that way and you sign up for it. Is it arbitrary? Yes. Does facial hair mean that you lack professionalism? No. You want that to change in the military? Good luck.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 8:12 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 08:12:03 -0400

Another reason I could think of as to why we have to maintain a clean shaven face is the seal you'll get once you put your pro mask on, if you were in a situation in which you had to don your pro mask a clean shaven face will provide a better seal vs having a beard that would get in the way of that seal

Response by PO2 Loren Gilmore made Mar 21 at 2018 8:41 AM

PO2 Loren Gilmore — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 08:41:29 -0400

I was in the Navy when it was an acceptable practice to grow beards while serving. I have seen men with full beards put on an SCBA and go in and fight fires on the carriers I served on. I grew one and kept it neat and trimmed. The best salt and pepper beard I ever seen was worn by a Dental Tech on the USS Independence. My first Gunny Sgt didn't care for them but he had no problem with the medical care I gave to him and his fellow Marines that I served with honorably. So I know and have heard all the reasons for why not growing them or allowing them in our services by reading this article and I am sure there are more to come. Am I in favor of them? Well yes but you are still responsible to what your comman'd has to say, no if's, and's or but's.

Response by SSgt Eric Kelly made Mar 21 at 2018 10:44 AM

SSgt Eric Kelly — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:44:01 -0400

Gas masks require a good face seal to be effective

Response by SPC William Blevins made Mar 21 at 2018 1:56 PM

SPC William Blevins — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 13:56:36 -0400

Depends on you mos and where you are assigned

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 3:14 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 15:14:29 -0400

I feel that if one soldier ie the officer who has one for religious reasons then all should. The standard shoyld apply to all or none period

Response by PO1 John Daut made Mar 21 at 2018 6:40 PM

PO1 John Daut — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:40:07 -0400

Had a full Beard in the Navy till 1985.

Response by SN Peter Stella made Mar 21 at 2018 6:51 PM

SN Peter Stella — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:51:37 -0400

It's bull, flat out you know why the Navy has a jumper? What is that flap for? Tradition tell us it had something to do with greasing your pony tail so when you were fighting the enemy couldn't grab you by it. Reason why you can't grow a beard? Cause the girly men can't

Response by AN Rory Hoven made Mar 21 at 2018 7:20 PM

AN Rory Hoven — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 19:20:14 -0400

It's my understanding that this beards have been banned due to the risk of chemical weapons. If you look at images from pre ww1 you will see beards. On some.

Response by SPC John Reed made Mar 21 at 2018 9:10 PM

SPC John Reed — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:10:18 -0400

Beards I could care less about as long as it was professional looking. Your comment about tattoos so what, drug and or alcohol abuse problems will catch up to them in the long run as for overweight people I was always put in the fat boy program when I got to my first permanent party station, I always did extra pt watched what I ate and the weight would not come off. After we were dismissed from final formation I always put on my pt gear and went for a run in the woods behind our base 2 hours every Monday through Friday I did this. I even had a smartass sergeant think he could “ run me into the ground “ he tried and failed he couldn’t figure out why. I even competed in the Frankenstein run my CO made a deal with me if I beat him no more fat boy program if he won I would do extra pt everyday 7 days a week so I agreed you should have seen the look on his face when I met him at the finish line just waiting for him he claimed I couldn’t finish it so I got a ride there, there was a major that finished behind me that told my CO the truth the look on his face was worth all the running so don’t judge a person on their appearance

Response by PFC Justin Edelmayer made Mar 21 at 2018 9:15 PM

PFC Justin Edelmayer — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:15:19 -0400

I've always been told its the gas masks. And yea, the Army ( to my knowledge could be wrong) is lax on certain things... But BMI? Oh boy... No. At least when I was in, you couldn't weigh over a certain amount. Pudge maybe, but full overweight? No

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:21 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 23:21:01 -0400

Maintaining simple standards of dress and appearance lay out a foundation for the rest. I can tell alot about my subordinates based on how they take care of themselves.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 23:28:51 -0400

Sounds like you really love the Army

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2018 11:32 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Mar 2018 23:32:27 -0400

I agree, there's nothing wrong with facial hair. If other accommodations can be made for recruitment and retention why not allow beards too? If we can regulate hair cuts we can regulate beards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 12:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 00:03:59 -0400

So, overweight "people" are chaptered out as fast as possible in my unit. I don't know many criminal background Soldiers, probably because I work in Intelligence and they wouldn't get clearances. And modern society says that there is nothing wrong with tattoos.

The issue with beards is regulating them, history, and, fitting of protective gear.
There was extensive problems with masks fitting previously. Beards are also unsanitary when in the field. Any pubic hair is and if you have to go weeks without showering, that stuff is the first to go.
So instead of complaining develop a white paper to give the SMA detailing what would be a good policy on beards and how to enforce it.

Response by 1LT David Padesky made Mar 22 at 2018 1:01 AM

1LT David Padesky — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 01:01:10 -0400

Gas

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 6:52 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:52:39 -0400

It’s a dog and pony show now. The people who actually fight the wars and use gas masks all grow beards. The ones who do gate guard and post details or sit on there phone all day at work preaching uniformity and professionalism

Response by SGT Brian Lorkowski made Mar 22 at 2018 7:38 AM

SGT Brian Lorkowski — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 07:38:59 -0400

I think the military is going down hill. Catering to the public and lacking in professionalism. They are lowering standards and training. It's bad enough that they don't have to polish boots, now they won't have to shave, what's the next step after that shorts and flipflops because the uniforms are to hot. The millenials are taking over.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 7:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 07:39:07 -0400

People who are commenting that we aren’t letting people in with mental health issues need to come down to your local BCT and I can show you at least 10-15 privates with documented mental health diagnosis. It’s getting pretty ridiculous.

Response by SFC Espi Espi made Mar 22 at 2018 9:50 AM

SFC Espi Espi — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 09:50:35 -0400

You knew what the standards were when you joined, adhere to them and stop whining, want to grow a beard, get out and stop buying in to all the rumorville, our military is a professional, credible organization, that is evident in our success

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Mar 22 at 2018 2:22 PM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 14:22:15 -0400

NBC mask is the most legitimate reason. When we deployed for Desert Storm it was no big secret Iraq had biological weapons, all shaving profiles were nullified! You can’t seal your mask on hair!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 5:21 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:21:49 -0400

If your saying that the Army dosnt have any of these characteristics then you dumb as shit the army has fat people soft people and people who think they can do what the want people get caught doing drugs and let's them walk free so what army are you talking about quit being dumb or ignorant or stupid their is no problem with facial hair seeing as the special forces can have them

Response by PO2 William Bonczek made Mar 22 at 2018 10:01 PM

PO2 William Bonczek — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 22:01:09 -0400

As a First responder no Beard was allowed. With a Full Beard could not guarantee proper fit every time when Dressed for Action.

Response by Mitchell VanNorstran made Mar 22 at 2018 11:27 PM

Mitchell VanNorstran — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 23:27:39 -0400

When I was active duty Army we couldn’t have beards because it kept us from a good seal when utilizing our gas masks.

Response by 1stSgt Bobby Seaney made Mar 22 at 2018 11:45 PM

1stSgt Bobby Seaney — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 23:45:16 -0400

As a former 1stSgt, take a guess.

Response by SFC Lawrence Born made Mar 22 at 2018 11:47 PM

SFC Lawrence Born — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 23:47:25 -0400

No beard = wear a PT belt even though you have reflective clothing on OR are down range.......Freaking ridiculous, outdated concepts that 1SGs and CSMs want let go of because they have to have something to be c#$ks about....(see also-don't walk on the grass).

Response by Maj Sean Barnes made Mar 23 at 2018 12:25 AM

Maj Sean Barnes — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 00:25:52 -0400

I believe the rule about facial hair has more to do with chem warfare..... being able to seal the gas mask.

Response by SPC Josh McCoy made Mar 23 at 2018 1:41 AM

SPC Josh McCoy — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 01:41:05 -0400

Have you ever been in the gas chamber? Your pro mask won’t work very well with a beard. I’d say go SF if you want the beard my friend.

Response by Sgt Andy Miller made Mar 23 at 2018 10:05 AM

Sgt Andy Miller — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:05:53 -0400

You going to hate that beard in the gas chamber

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 10:10 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:10:28 -0400

As far as I am aware, beards are no longer allowed since WW I when gas was utilized as a weapon and gas masks couldn’t maintain a good seal because of facial hair creating that one gap in the seal and compromising the soldier. If anything, I feel it’s still in place to this day in regards to gas masks and beards as a better safe than sorry situation. After all, bullet wounds are easier to treat in the field than the inside of your lungs.

Response by COL Sterling MacLeod made Mar 23 at 2018 10:38 AM

COL Sterling MacLeod — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:38:50 -0400

Let the Beards grow!!!!

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Mar 23 at 2018 11:35 AM

1SG Dale Cantrell — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:35:54 -0400

If you dress professional , look professional, act professional, it makes you think professional, you live longer in or out of combat

Response by MSgt Mario Brandstaetter made Mar 23 at 2018 11:41 AM

MSgt Mario Brandstaetter — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:41:43 -0400

It's not so much the appearance its for your safety ,with tbe beard the chance your mask been thight is almost zero.If somebody doesn't believe it take the test.In the German Air Force you where allowed to grow a beard but it had to be trimmed right and trimmed the way the mask was still closing thight.Some people found out that growing a beard was not a good Idea ,when send in the chamber for the yearly Test they really didn't enjoy it. People you shown in the picture are special forces they have to blend in and in some Country's without a beard impossible,like Arabic country's .

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 12:58 PM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:58:43 -0400

The Navy has something called a “no shave chit” and if you qualify you CAN have a beard.

Response by Sgt Adrian Jones made Mar 23 at 2018 3:12 PM

Sgt Adrian Jones — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:12:57 -0400

Because Some of us cant grow a beard properly...#patchybeard

Response by SrA Dan Frady made Mar 23 at 2018 3:42 PM

SrA Dan Frady — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 15:42:35 -0400

Try getting a good seal on that gas mask with your beard. Good luck.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 6:41 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:41:04 -0400

So the “advisor” teams at JSOC are not professionals? Asking for a friend.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 7:17 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:17:03 -0400

Only in certain situations on deployment

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 7:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:19:51 -0400

So, the Union Army wasn't, and SFOD-D isnt, professional? Not to mention a whole lot of other special operators in theater. Our bearded Allies aren't, either? Grooming standards can be rewritten, and ought to be.

Response by LT Richard Wyzykowski made Mar 23 at 2018 7:36 PM

LT Richard Wyzykowski — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:36:53 -0400

Its ok in the navy

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 7:48 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 19:48:19 -0400

As far as sailors are concerned the only reason ive been told we cant grow a beard is that when dawning a gas mask it will not make a proper seal against the face if there is facial hair however ive seen plenty of sailors who have no shave chits and there is no way a gas mask would make a good seal as far as professional apperance goes lower enlisted (e-5s included) have a natural act for skewing a professional appearance in public. The navy ,back in the day would allow sailors to grow facial hair during the colder months coinciding with the dress blue uniform and when the shift from blues to whites the had to be clean shaven

Response by PO2 Keith Reese made Mar 23 at 2018 8:01 PM

PO2 Keith Reese — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 20:01:43 -0400

I had a beard while in the Navy until outlawed. Early to mid 80's.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 9:50 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:50:25 -0400

Just let me have a beard bro

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 10:33 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 22:33:10 -0400

Beards were originally banned when the armed forces issued gasmasks that couldn't get a proper seal with facial hair. Now that the M50 can get a seal there is no real reason not to be allowed them. People with shaving waivers look extremely professional in uniform. If they allowed everyone to wear them with the same standards as those on waivers, it could work well. If warfighting is a worry, ban them in the field just like we do with makeup and contacts. All of these SNCOS and officers on here trying to brow beat people talking about "Because it's the rules" or "that's the way it is" are fools and just reinforcing the story of the monkeys with the bananas. If beards are unprofessional and have no place, why are we allowed moustaches? They same arguments for and against beards can also be used when talking about moustaches.

Response by SPC Dannie Hottinger made Mar 23 at 2018 10:33 PM

SPC Dannie Hottinger — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 22:33:16 -0400

We were told a gas mask won't seal over a beard

Response by SGT Daniel Price made Mar 23 at 2018 10:59 PM

SGT Daniel Price — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 22:59:36 -0400

Has to do with the inability for a proper seal on a has mask. Last thing you want is a beard during an NBC attack. Rare as it may be, having a beard in a situation where you have to wear a gas mask will get you killed. It won't seal and the gas will enter your lungs and have full effect. So you want a beard? Or Do you want to live?

Response by SSG David Thompson made Mar 23 at 2018 11:59 PM

SSG David Thompson — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 23:59:25 -0400

Have they come up with a new type of protective mask that can seal over hair since I retired, or are you immune to all chemical and biological agents and inhaled radioactive dust?

Response by SPC Kevin Miller made Mar 24 at 2018 2:10 AM

SPC Kevin Miller — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 02:10:49 -0400

Well you don't want the liberal wimps to join lol

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 7:21 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 07:21:24 -0400

Shave, get over it and stop your bitch'n.

Response by SPC Cj Colosi made Mar 24 at 2018 7:43 AM

SPC Cj Colosi — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 07:43:33 -0400

Welp I know I’m gonna get crap for this but uh have you forgotten about the drafts at all lol the bottom of the barrel got sucked up each time thus what you are now realizing has been around for awhile lol enjoy folks

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 8:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:59:34 -0400

Go through the gas chamber with a beard and get back to me.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 9:34 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:34:18 -0400

We aren’t other countries either. It’s alwats the scumbags that want beards who have the full sleeves, even though they know the shit is out of regs. But they rather take a page 11 or 6105 and be done with it then follow orders. Professionalism does matter. Everywhere. People need to grow up and stop bitching about what other countries have and just be prideful of the institution they represent.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 9:54 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:54:20 -0400

The army is undisciplined as it is. Shaving is a simple discipline. You do it everyday from the first day you join till the day you EAS. These disciplines can save your life in combat. Now I’m not saying that shavinyour face everyday will save your life in combat. But once you give up one discipline and everything gets relaxed then you’ll start brushing off other disciplines. You get complacent. Yeah, the old army and the old corps had beards. But it’s also not 1775 either. Leaders changed the service branches into a more professional fighting force. And if you want to grow a beard then you got 3 options, 1. Get out 2. Join MARSOC or SF. Or hope your face just breaks out beyond all control when you shave, forcing you to get a shave chit.

Response by SSG Kirk Brickle made Mar 24 at 2018 10:16 AM

SSG Kirk Brickle — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:16:11 -0400

Some soldiers are allowed to grow beards. Certain soldiers of Muslim faith are allowed to grow beards. And soldiers in theater in certain units are allowed to grow beards in order to blend and be excepted by the locals. And we had a soldier in my last unit that was allowed by command to have a beard because he was an undercover DEA agent. As far as I know those with sleeve tattoos were already in the Army before the regs were changed i believe in the early 2000s and they are grandfathered in . I don’t think new recruits are allowed to have certain tattoos including sleeves.

Response by 2LT Ronald Reimer made Mar 24 at 2018 10:22 AM

2LT Ronald Reimer — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:22:25 -0400

For about 1/2 of the population, it is due to a lack of enough testosterone, (females). In others, it may be genetic, such as “poor little Joe Dirt”, only being able to grow facial hair “all white trash like”. And yet in others, it may be due to a medical condition like hypothyroidism, diabetes, Cushing’s syndrome, or other metabolic abnormalities. For you, it may be just because you look like you’re 10, and are a late bloomer. Best of luck on all of your bearding endeavors. PS: Puberty is a bitch!

Response by Eric Garcia made Mar 24 at 2018 1:57 PM

Eric Garcia — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 13:57:42 -0400

I was thinking that if you have facial hair, your gas mask can’t get a good seal on your face and you’ll be exposed to the environment that you need the gas mask for. So this maybe a reason the military doesn’t want you to have facial hair. This is just my guess.

Response by PO3 Tyler Ruff made Mar 24 at 2018 2:45 PM

PO3 Tyler Ruff — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:45:10 -0400

Because procedure.

Response by SGT Raymond Thomas made Mar 24 at 2018 4:20 PM

SGT Raymond Thomas — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:20:18 -0400

If you want to complain about growing a beard then why did you even join? When you get out you can grow your beard as a symbol of freedom.

Response by SPC Jerry Hess made Mar 24 at 2018 5:00 PM

SPC Jerry Hess — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:00:06 -0400

Lowering standards is never a good idea!

Response by PO2 Tony English made Mar 24 at 2018 5:07 PM

PO2 Tony English — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:07:37 -0400

Yes that was a bad statement , the military don’t let criminals or phycos in I have know idea where you got that idea , as for military and beards that’s based on where your deployed in my experience But I’ve been out for a few years

Response by Sgt Van Livingston made Mar 24 at 2018 5:15 PM

Sgt Van Livingston — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:15:32 -0400

Unless things have changed a lot since I was in, which I don't think it has, to get in the Army you can't have a any felonies and misdemeanors can't be anything violent or drug related. Drug and alchahol problems are not allowed to join, but if it happens after you are in you go through a drug and alchahol program. If you fail the program you are discharged. Overweight people if they are in active duty go through what we used to call the fat boy program. Psychotic people are not allowed in and would be discharged if it was found after they were on duty. As for the full sleeve tats they were allowed when I was in then because your generation decided they were going to tattoo faces, necks and have inappropriate tats. So they tightened up. Now they have loosened up so full sleeves are ok. As for beards, I think it would be ok, IF, it could be easily regulated, when we asked the same question why we couldn't have beards, it was explained that thing like sand fleas and other pests love beards so considering the areas we are fighting in, beards may not be a good choice.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Mar 24 at 2018 5:24 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:24:24 -0400

Doesn't say much for your cohorts does it? Can't imagine anyone wanting to be a member of such an organization. The US Military is the best on the face of the Earth. If you want to be part of the best, you have to look it. Your question seems to suggest the standards should lowered to lowest level occupied by the worst person. Wouldn't stay the best for very long with that kind of thinking. Take pride in the fact that you are a member of an organization with the highest standards

Response by MSG Micheal P Floyd Jr made Mar 24 at 2018 7:17 PM

MSG Micheal P Floyd Jr — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:17:49 -0400

SPC Voye, first and last allows me to share that the U.S. Army is no longer accepting such men and women within the Armed Forces. If any made it through the cracks - rest assured they won't last long. As for why you can't grow a beard, professionalism disallows the growth unless you are assigned to a Unit where only one professional outlook is admired - you are not assigned to that Unit. Continue to grow in knowledge and experience where you are, and when the time comes - you'll learn all that you need to know about that Unit.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Mar 24 at 2018 8:42 PM

SFC Richard Baerlocher — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:42:52 -0400

Facial hair keeps the protective mask from sealing. The appearance of the military is necessary for good discipline. There are many different beards. The task of determining which ones are to be allowed would be nearly impossible.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2018 8:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:48:10 -0400

They probably don't allow us to grow beards so our promasks seal if there were to be a situation to arise when we need them.

Response by SGM Michael Ratkoski made Mar 24 at 2018 9:54 PM

SGM Michael Ratkoski — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 21:54:44 -0400

Special Operations only -- as in country you need to blend with the population as is Iraq, Afagan, etc.

Response by SSgt Lawrence Bolen made Mar 24 at 2018 10:23 PM

SSgt Lawrence Bolen — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 22:23:25 -0400

Considering our chosen profession you hace to suck it up butter cup, you knew rules going in. If you dont like the standards ETS. 1 of the best reasons for the grooming standard is our clise proximity to our brothers in arms..ie hot racking etc unwanted visitors like lice crabs ticks sand fleas......1 less place for them to live.

Response by SPC Brandon Baer made Mar 25 at 2018 12:43 AM

SPC Brandon Baer — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 00:43:33 -0400

Like many veterans, I grew a full beard once I got out just to see if I liked it. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing so in the Army because I was proud to maintain the standards. They represented me and all of us to the public and, if I hadn't loved up to them, it would look badly upon the service I was so proud to be a part of. That's just my opinion though.

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Mar 25 at 2018 7:47 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 07:47:44 -0400

I don't know what the Army is like NOW, but I suspect you don't have your facts straight. Some of this may be happening in your unit, but to say the Army allows this is pure bullshit. I can't imagine the Command allowing drug and alcohol abuse problems, overweight, and serious criminal history folks tp stay in. Full sleeve tattoos these folks may of already had them before the regulation changed and might be grandfathered in.....Psychotic people really now you're a doctor of some kind? Don't give 2 shits about what other armies do and neither should you. Your focus there Speedy 4 should be doing your job the best you can and striving to become a Sergeant and leader vs. worrying about something way above your paygrade.

Response by CW2 Norman Fose made Mar 25 at 2018 9:17 AM

CW2 Norman Fose — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:17:08 -0400

It IS an issue with a gas mask. Just TRY to get a gas mask to deal over a beard !!

Response by SPC Eric Kohlmeier made Mar 25 at 2018 9:35 AM

SPC Eric Kohlmeier — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:35:37 -0400

If you want to grow a beard, become a civilian contractor! Problem solved. I had no problem with being clean shaven during my time in service. It was a standard that I knew I had to meet before I joined. But honestly at 17 I couldn't grow much of a beard anyways. Now at 43, I am my own boss and I have several facial piercings and a 22 inch beard, because as a civilian I cab do whatever I want. Just my 2 cents.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 9:43 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:43:52 -0400

I was always Jealous of those with shaving profiles. It they made 1/8 of an inch the standard, Wouldn’t look too bad although maybe just in the ocps and not dress that would look odd.

Response by SGT Gary Miner made Mar 25 at 2018 11:42 AM

SGT Gary Miner — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 11:42:46 -0400

The only ones historically were engineers. Pre WW1! Relax the field policy garrison not so much bring back the mustache

Response by MSG Kim Vincent made Mar 25 at 2018 12:21 PM

MSG Kim Vincent — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 12:21:43 -0400

Bring back the Starch and the boot polish!! Go back to the old days!

Response by SSG Kevin McMillon made Mar 25 at 2018 12:51 PM

SSG Kevin McMillon — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 12:51:06 -0400

It affects the Seal of your protective mask

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 1:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:01:38 -0400

Knowing that I was once a young Soldier, I remember thinking much like this young man, worried about the me on what I what I wanted, not looking at the bigger picture,

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 1:16 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 13:16:36 -0400

Facial hair can prevent a proper seal with gas masks.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 2:35 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 14:35:43 -0400

See, I wonder the same thing. Before the Army, my beard was a huge part in my self-expression, and I've always been frustrated that such a harmless thing as facial hair must be regulated. I get that there're standards, but I question them sometimes. And how does looking professional help us kill the enemy? What purpose on the battlefield does looking professional serve? And who is the one who decided beards look unprofessional anyway? It's a matter of opinion, and should not take up space in any regulation.

Response by Cpl Julio T.Nimbley made Mar 25 at 2018 3:55 PM

Cpl Julio T.Nimbley — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 15:55:07 -0400

We can not start changing things in the millitary to suite what everyone like

Response by CAPT Charles Goldsborough made Mar 25 at 2018 4:00 PM

CAPT Charles Goldsborough — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:00:15 -0400

Yes, you can wear a beard and turban in uniform. As of January, 2017 Sikhs May wear a beard and turban when Army regulations were changed to permit this. Headscarves are also permitted for Muslim women. Protective mask seals and personal hygiene are no longer an issue.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 4:13 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:13:38 -0400

How well will your Promask seal with a beard?

Response by Sgt David Webster Jr. made Mar 25 at 2018 4:36 PM

Sgt David Webster Jr. — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:36:45 -0400

Tell him to make the teams then he can grow a beard

Response by MCPO William Richards made Mar 25 at 2018 5:20 PM

MCPO William Richards — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 17:20:24 -0400

Shaving and showering are all health concerns. In addition, it a matter of discipline. Do as you are told. I remember a beard growing contest but when it was over the beards went.
As far as other countries they believe it’s ok to die and get 73 virgins. Our country believes you should stay alive and return home

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Mar 25 at 2018 6:49 PM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 18:49:56 -0400

Practical reasons - Ticks, Headlice, Fleas and Scabies.
Realistically with Nerve/Mustard/Blood Agents penetrating skin and viral attacks - Requiring full body suits with internal O2 and cooling systems. The current MOPP suits require warning w/time to prepare.

Response by SP5 D. Herring made Mar 25 at 2018 7:33 PM

SP5 D. Herring — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 19:33:29 -0400

If they had allowed facial hair when I was in, I would have stayed for 30 years. But alas, I prefer having facial hair like the generations of my family have had.

Response by MSG James Vaughan made Mar 25 at 2018 8:43 PM

MSG James Vaughan — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:43:28 -0400

We all knew the standards when we signed up. What’s the problem ?

Response by PO2 Troy Vaughn made Mar 25 at 2018 10:04 PM

PO2 Troy Vaughn — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:04:44 -0400

They don't have the same standards as they used to, to many foriegn nationals allowed to be in uniform. PC is proticall. I say BS!!!!!!!

Response by SFC John Diane Loyal made Mar 25 at 2018 10:30 PM

SFC John Diane Loyal — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:30:26 -0400

I think that it is about uniformity. Not everyone can grow a decent beard,and to have a few hairs here and there is truly unprofessional.When I was in my first enlistment high and tight was the norm and if it wasn't on your ID card you could not have a mustache.So you would have to go on leave grow your tache and get a new ID card before any senior NCO stop you and ask to see your.ID

Response by SGT Lynn Griffin made Mar 25 at 2018 10:51 PM

SGT Lynn Griffin — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:51:04 -0400

Cause we said you can't!!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 11:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 23:34:47 -0400

I have never understood the “shave” rule. It makes no sense and we should move on. I purpose that if you can’t grow a beard, you shouldn’t be able to join. Flip the tables, if you will. Of course, that could only apply to men, but see how it feels to be restricted for no reason. The day the Army says we can grow beards is the day I go indef.

Response by SSG Harry Jr. Peters made Mar 26 at 2018 2:13 AM

SSG Harry Jr. Peters — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 02:13:56 -0400

In my opinion I see no problem with soldiers having beards or goatee as long as it is maintained properly

Response by Jerry Rivas made Mar 26 at 2018 6:11 AM

Jerry Rivas — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 06:11:22 -0400

Because you are 19 years old and your pissy little chin hairs look like shit?

Response by SGT Bo Dresner made Mar 26 at 2018 8:37 AM

SGT Bo Dresner — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 08:37:36 -0400

CBRN readiness is the reason why. The current mask cannot seal with facial hair.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2018 11:04 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 11:04:15 -0400

APC Voys, I am and always will be an "old school" type who believes in certain UNIFORM standards for our military personnel. Maintenance of standards of appearance, behavior, training, and living is what builds unit cohesiveness. The opposite destroys this sense of belonging to the group.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made Mar 26 at 2018 5:25 PM

SGT Patrick Reno — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:25:10 -0400

Maybe it is just Genetic for you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2018 5:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 17:28:23 -0400

It is a lot safer especially when in a field environment to not shave it reduces the risk of infection from nicks or from open pores, its definitely not healthy for your skin to shave everyday

Response by PFC Tommy Tk Patron made Mar 26 at 2018 6:25 PM

PFC Tommy Tk Patron — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 18:25:24 -0400

Have to be able to seal your mask.

Response by SGT James Belcher made Mar 26 at 2018 7:34 PM

SGT James Belcher — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 19:34:04 -0400

I dont know why...I was told to shave and I did. Whether or not it looks unprofessional or not is in the eye of the beholder, easier for me to shave then to worry about the why's or why comes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2018 8:37 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:37:36 -0400

Don’t join if you don’t want to be clean shaven. I’m not sure why this is so hard to figure out.
Besides, it really can be a hygiene thing.
But, in the end it’s a follow the dang rules or ETS thing.
Simple calculation really.

Response by SFC Jorge Diaz Caro made Mar 26 at 2018 8:49 PM

SFC Jorge Diaz Caro — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 20:49:29 -0400

SPC Cody can you even grow one, I'm just kidding. All jokes asides it is said that the reason that we are not allowed to grow out a majestic rugged beard is because it does not allow the gas mask to seal well around the face , I think is BS but they are now researching if there's ways around it, yet I haven't seen any updates in a while , I pray it gets approved. if it gets approved it will still get a while till we can grow one out due to amendment to the regulation and regulating the length cut and styles to fit a professional look.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2018 9:20 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 21:20:22 -0400

I heard those other countries are looking for some people with beards to come join them. Problem solve

Response by PFC John Villarreal made Mar 26 at 2018 10:23 PM

PFC John Villarreal — Mon, 26 Mar 2018 22:23:00 -0400

I always thought it was because when some of those guys tried to grow facial hair, it looked like a patchy lawn.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 27 at 2018 1:46 AM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 01:46:09 -0400

OK, I've scanned by this thread too many times. I cannot help myself. My smart ass will not be contained. Apologies in advance.

As a juvenile male enters puberty and begins to sexually mature the gonads begin to produce testosterone. This happens at different ages for different males It is an androgen that stimulates the development of secondary male sexual characteristics...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 4:28 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 04:28:53 -0400

You joined the military. Quit whining. Follow the regs and stop worrying about other SMs.

Response by Frank Bizzoco made Mar 27 at 2018 7:15 AM

Frank Bizzoco — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 07:15:55 -0400

Having a beard in the field can pose many disease problems, ie, lice, as well as try forming a gasmask seal with a beard!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 7:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 07:32:52 -0400

The beard policy is to allow a proper seal for a gas mask period. When I was in DC I was horrified that about 1/3 of the secret service had facial hair that would not allow a proper mask seal. Vanity vs security!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 8:50 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 08:50:45 -0400

I wouldn't take too many cues from foreign militaries. There's a big correlation between discipline and performance, and most militaries that don't encourage discipline or enforce grooming standards are a clusterf**k.

Response by CPT Jack Petzko made Mar 27 at 2018 9:06 AM

CPT Jack Petzko — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:06:07 -0400

How in hell do propose wearing a Protective Mask properly if you can't get a good seal?

Response by CPT Jack Petzko made Mar 27 at 2018 9:08 AM

CPT Jack Petzko — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:08:17 -0400

How rhw hell can you wear a Protective Mask properly (and effectivel) with a beard? You can't get a seal

Response by CW3 Robert Haffly made Mar 27 at 2018 10:04 AM

CW3 Robert Haffly — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 10:04:02 -0400

I remember the handlebar mustaches that were popular in the Cavalry. On the day the new reg took effect most, if not all, the officers shaved theirs off instead of just trimming the ends. That was in the 70's. Beards are over-rated and are hard to take care of properly. But, so is shaving in the field.

Response by SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz made Mar 27 at 2018 12:14 PM

SPC Miguel Rosario Cruz — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:14:20 -0400

that is a good question i would like to see if some body in dc will hear you

Response by Sgt Den OBrien made Mar 27 at 2018 12:33 PM

Sgt Den OBrien — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:33:33 -0400

Back in 1967 when I was starting my military "hitch", my father warned me about getting tattoos. Expecting a lecture about how bad they looked, and all that, he surprised me with : "They're just another way for someone to identify you if you "mess" up. They may forget your face, but they'll never forget a tattoo." That man knew me well, so I never got one.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 3:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 15:16:13 -0400

I love how this conversation can't be had with out a bunch of stereotypical pissed off NCOs being all "hooah hooah" and saying "if you want to have a beard then get out or you do as your told." I mean come on are y'all so salty that out can't talk about army regulation with out trying to enforce it.

Response by Capt Sabrena Goldman made Mar 27 at 2018 4:33 PM

Capt Sabrena Goldman — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 16:33:20 -0400

Wow, I’m confused by your motivation to pose this question in such a derrogitory way. It seems you want to express your contempt towards certain professional standards that have been allowed that you are against. Are some of these allowed or are they tolerated for specific reasons until the standard is maintained. There are steps for discipline when a standard is not met such as physical features ie a medical condition or a requirement for a mission. Overall the goal of standardization is for health of the individual unit and mission. The military has had many years to understand how to build morale and keep good order and discipline but society today has been challenged with the same due to so many factors. Military members continue to be challenged to meet standards and with deployments they learn the reason for these standards. What are you really trying to say? The current military are slackers or why can’t you grow a beard in the military? These are very different things to comment on. At different times in a career members are still moldable 18-21 year olds. As far as your first statement I think you could be questioning mentorship? Would that be correct or are you saying every new military member must be squared away from the get go? Please clarify.

Response by Capt Hansel Bumgarner made Mar 27 at 2018 5:09 PM

Capt Hansel Bumgarner — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 17:09:57 -0400

For one thing, it prevents a seal for your gas mask. Another, it’s a hygiene issue. Thirdly, they often look like crap. This isn’t the Civil War where shaving was a luxury.

Response by Cpl Michael Cobb made Mar 27 at 2018 6:09 PM

Cpl Michael Cobb — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 18:09:14 -0400

"We do it this way because it's how we've always done it," is a very weak argument!

Response by Lt Col Bg Smith made Mar 27 at 2018 7:29 PM

Lt Col Bg Smith — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:29:58 -0400

Should not be allowed. In protracted engagements you do not shower or bathe. The longer the hair on your head or face the greater the likelihood you will get an infection and have to be removed from the front line. Proven fact when you have protracted combat in the field, more than a month

Response by CPT William Jones made Mar 27 at 2018 7:37 PM

CPT William Jones — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:37:20 -0400

Gentlemen and ladies if you wish. Todays military is 100% volunteer. When you held up your hand you agreed To follow the rules and regs . So you have no reason to not follow them. If you do not like one or more you should have learned more about your future employer before you signed up As the poem says "yours is not to reason why yours is to just die, into the valley of death rode the 600" Charge of the Light Brigade

Response by SGT Kevin Berlied made Mar 27 at 2018 7:52 PM

SGT Kevin Berlied — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 19:52:47 -0400

There is no distactors for facial hair. Next the military will say shave your public hair. WTF

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 9:07 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:07:37 -0400

Several reasons for this. For me it is a clear indicator for leadership to instantly identify someone who may struggle with military discipline. Unlike tattoos or other waiverable situation(s), a shave must happen daily. Every morning it is the first step in locking on military bearing. If a service member is unable to shave in the morning then it can not be expected that they are able successfully complete any of the other tasks for that day without supervision. That's the way I see it.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 9:08 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:08:08 -0400

Advantages- keep you warmer in cold climates, no need to supply or carry shaving supplies, shaving can cause cuts which in less than hygienic environments increases risk of infection, viewed in many cultures as a sign of wisdom, respect and adulthood, increase in morale and can be woven into durable rope comparable to 550 cord.

Disadvantages- gas mask cannot seal, old timers will complain, the baby faced dude will be made fun of, new standards would need to be created and taught, an allowance of individualism and soldiers would look too cool.

WORTH IT.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 9:08 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:08:22 -0400

Than*

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2018 9:26 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:26:27 -0400

Really? Then how about you changing that perception and and make looking professional matter again. It does to me.

Response by PV2 Austin Baker made Mar 27 at 2018 11:34 PM

PV2 Austin Baker — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:34:23 -0400

As a 74 delta I was taught in sit that a beard would prevent the proper way to seal a gas mask, where as a clean shave or a mustache would be in affected. Also the men on a shave in profile have to keep it a certain length to make sure the gas mask properly seals

Response by SgtMaj Raymond Roughton made Mar 28 at 2018 3:57 AM

SgtMaj Raymond Roughton — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 03:57:30 -0400

Does wearing a gas mask provide a clue?

Response by SGT Mike Bohan made Mar 28 at 2018 9:28 AM

SGT Mike Bohan — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:28:08 -0400

I haven’t shaved my face bare since the day I got out of the Army, had a long beard short beard and everything in between but I have this because I’m a civilian. The fact that you get to put on a uniform every morning and I have to do next to nothing to maintain it is already relaxed enough. Be grateful you don’t have to walk down a set of stairs with your pants starched so much can’t bend your knees, or that you don’t have to shine anymore. The Army is already relax the fact that we allow soldiers to wear addresses and grow beard for religious reasons to me is a palling. You signed a contract the Army is your religion now we already look like enough shit as it is

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2018 3:06 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 15:06:24 -0400

Some people also see allowing beards as a possible safety issue for soldiers, especially those who work in the maintenance field. There are a lot of hazards that could end up being fatal if get a beard or anything caught in some machinery. Some might agree that it could also be a fire hazard. Then there is also the issue of it interfering with mop gear as well.

Response by LTC Tom Barbeau made Mar 28 at 2018 4:13 PM

LTC Tom Barbeau — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 16:13:40 -0400

I had fun serving with a mustache for all of my career except basic training and Airborne School. Then again, at Airborne School, I had the reverse mustache where the skin over my lip burned. Many a SGM got tweaked trying to figure out if my stache was too wide. Just gave em a bigger smile when I caught them looking.

Response by Bklyn Que made Mar 28 at 2018 8:43 PM

Bklyn Que — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 20:43:10 -0400

Retired Army Chemical Corps. You cannot have a full out beard and correctly and safely done your protective mask. Other than that I don't see an issue with it. H ell the navy used to wear beards after a certain rank was attained.

Response by SSG Craig Smith made Mar 28 at 2018 10:27 PM

SSG Craig Smith — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 22:27:44 -0400

Great idea...until you need your pro-mask. Do you really think the enemy isn't learning? Our own government is announcing our every move.

Response by PO3 Dean Lindstrom made Mar 28 at 2018 11:04 PM

PO3 Dean Lindstrom — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 23:04:34 -0400

Ever had someone grab your beard in hand to hand? Yes, it can be used for a hold. By the way. The days of giving young convicted criminals the choice of jail or military are long gone so pretty sure you exaggerated bit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 7:32 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 07:32:04 -0400

The reason you can't have a beard is that your mask will not seal to it. No beard is just another concession you make to serve your country.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 8:54 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:54:11 -0400

Grooming standards are environmentally relative. If you are in the Garrison, you should present the most clean and professional appearance you can possibly muster (IAW ar-670-1). In some scenarios, while working with indigenous peoples of different cultural backgrounds, it is considered unprofessional to not have a beard as a man. If you are in a Muslim culture it is considered feminine to not have a beard. This is why American service members are allowed to have beards in some situations while deployed. Note. It is a hazard to have a beard while in the military because you cannot get a seal on your NBC mask

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 9:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 09:13:55 -0400

If the biggest sacrifice we make in this uniform is shaving our facial hair, then we should consider ourselves blessed and be thankful.

Response by LTC Nathan Bond made Mar 29 at 2018 9:33 AM

LTC Nathan Bond — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 09:33:04 -0400

So that the first thing you do when you get out is grow a beard. I was in for over 24 yrs enlisted and officer. I hated shaving everyday. I use to hate polishing my boots too. I do neither now. The point is standards of professionalism. Tattoos are hard enough to police, why put more burden on the backs of our NCO Corps?

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 10:25 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 10:25:12 -0400

I couldn’t agree more. For most of our nations history the service members where aloud to wear a beard. I feel they show a level of maturity and professionalism that a baby face could never achieve. When I deployed we had a unit of Canadian soldiers attached to us and where encouraged to grow beards.

Response by 1SG Uwe Mueller made Mar 29 at 2018 12:54 PM

1SG Uwe Mueller — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 12:54:22 -0400

Although your Post is a valid question I read into the tone as being rather disrespectful and condescending to your fellow service members. When you disparage someone due to your perception that they have or are "criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people" you are both indirectly criticizing your leadership as well as making snap decisions about a soldier's ability to perform. When you leave the military, something that is likely sooner than later in your case (snap judgment), you'll be able to have a beard but you'll be shocked about who your coworkers are....human beings that may have faults.

Response by CPT Randall Sands made Mar 29 at 2018 12:55 PM

CPT Randall Sands — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 12:55:54 -0400

I was always told that it started with the issue of gas masks, you can't get a good solid seal with facial hair. I have noticed that several traditions get started for excellent reasons, but tend to get over blown while instilling discipline with young troops.

Response by SCPO Todd Sheckley made Mar 29 at 2018 1:04 PM

SCPO Todd Sheckley — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 13:04:53 -0400

Well I can't say I would like to test the mask seal theory in a serious chemical agent environment.

Response by A1C Sean Burke made Mar 29 at 2018 3:51 PM

A1C Sean Burke — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 15:51:23 -0400

Shave daily, haircut weekly. I guess Cold Warriors were just more squared away.

Response by Pvt Derek Howald made Mar 29 at 2018 4:39 PM

Pvt Derek Howald — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:39:36 -0400

... pass the indocs. Right units=relaxed grooming regs.

Response by SPC Jason Jones made Mar 29 at 2018 4:44 PM

SPC Jason Jones — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:44:40 -0400

My thoughts on it are this it's part of being disciplined like making a bed or polishing our boots. Now that I've said that I have no problem with have a beard in combat

Response by PO2 Einar Richter made Mar 29 at 2018 5:02 PM

PO2 Einar Richter — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 17:02:10 -0400

I would challenge anyone with a good beard to seal a gas mask...

Response by Sgt Jonathan Smith made Mar 29 at 2018 8:03 PM

Sgt Jonathan Smith — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 20:03:58 -0400

GasMask

Response by SFC Dustin White made Mar 29 at 2018 8:13 PM

SFC Dustin White — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 20:13:34 -0400

Real simple answer . . . Try to seal your mask!

Response by PO3 Sergio Sandoval made Mar 29 at 2018 8:15 PM

PO3 Sergio Sandoval — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 20:15:01 -0400

That's why I joined the NAVY!

Response by Lt Col John Cheney made Mar 29 at 2018 11:37 PM

Lt Col John Cheney — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:37:11 -0400

I’m for it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2018 11:40 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 23:40:37 -0400

Because you're not a woman, only women are regulatory allowed to grow full beards in any military position. And I have seen several out there. Double standard, PC, BS.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Mar 30 at 2018 3:05 AM

PO3 John Wagner — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 03:05:41 -0400

If you can’t grow a beard grow one of these. That’ll show ,em.

Response by SFC Malcolm Haugen made Mar 30 at 2018 8:28 AM

SFC Malcolm Haugen — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:28:25 -0400

While serving in the Army in Germany when terrorism was on the rise at the time, the debate on beards was a big topic. Facial hair may have made American soldiers less identifiable in the general public. This may have been a good idea. On the flip side was having a beard in a tactical situation. If the need came to wear a mask, what would be the result? It was proven the mask would not seal properly, resulting in unneeded injury or death. So my feeling when serving overseas, where a beard with grooming guidelines. When deployed, it comes off for your own protection.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Mar 30 at 2018 9:44 AM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 09:44:20 -0400

Because I said so. Now go finish your vegetables.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 1:59 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 13:59:49 -0400

First you still have to get a wavier and evaluation before you can enlist if you have had Psychotic events. Its always been that way. They also had to relook at the Regulation due to PTSD.

Second I have a real issue with you calling full sleeve tattoos unprofessional how so? a lot of us have them in memory of lost friends from the War we have been fighting since 01..

As for a beard really... why I personally hate that a moustache is allowed.. I think they look bad.. and that is my opinion I see service members with them all the time, I don't think they are unprofessional I just think they look bad.. except on Chuck Norris his is just bad A$$...

Response by Sgt John Street made Mar 30 at 2018 4:43 PM

Sgt John Street — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 16:43:11 -0400

When I was an 0311 marine , we would go in the field for weeks at a time. Sometimes according to training you might be able to go a couple days without shaving. But you always had some caring officer who would jump you and make you shave .

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 6:29 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 18:29:36 -0400

If I can be honest, I'm glad we aren't allowed to have beards in the Armed Force's. I think growing a beard while serving brings down our professional appearance. Not to mention that before soldiers fight to be allowed to grow beards, maybe they should ensure that they are passing other military standards.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Mar 30 at 2018 7:39 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 19:39:24 -0400

It's all about personal hygiene, fitting of gas masks and uniformity. If you wanted to grow a beard you should have been a Pirate. I know that its a trend to let Spec-ops grow beards to " blend in" but thats a different matter.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 8:24 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 20:24:19 -0400

I’ve often wondered this my self. You can argue AR670-1 or what ever regulation you like. But with out explanation it falls on deaf ears.
And yet that is all we offer the answer of “because I said so”. And in the same breath Praise our European counterparts and OUR SF we idolize. And they are allowed to grow a magestic beard. Are they immune to the regulation because of their duty position?

It’s easy to set a standard: can not extend more than 2” off the chin, and must be neatly trimmed and groomed.

Response by LCpl John Stanley made Mar 30 at 2018 8:36 PM

LCpl John Stanley — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 20:36:04 -0400

Beards would drive the chickensh!t NCOs and officers CRAZY. They would be constantly chewing out the miscreants who's beards were not up to spec, and the amount of "crotch crickets" (lice) who would find a home in the beards would be a problem. Of course I say all of this tongue-in-cheek; I can't think of any good reason to not allow facial hair.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2018 10:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 22:31:37 -0400

Why are beards not ok but mustaches are. If beards fit the same category as sleeve tattoos and crazy people then mustaches should be in the same category as pedophiles. A man's face was meant to have a beard not shaven like a womans.

Response by PO2 Lafayette Hamlett made Mar 30 at 2018 11:40 PM

PO2 Lafayette Hamlett — Fri, 30 Mar 2018 23:40:04 -0400

During my last two years of active duty I was permitted to wear a Goatee

Response by Sgt William Pilgrim Jr. made Mar 31 at 2018 1:04 AM

Sgt William Pilgrim Jr. — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 01:04:13 -0400

One way to look at it is, You can't place your Gas mask on and get a tight seal in case of a gas attack or what ever is used.. I too would have wanted a beard but sad to say there are reason you can't wear a beard..

Response by CPL Kenneth Hoffman made Mar 31 at 2018 5:44 AM

CPL Kenneth Hoffman — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 05:44:38 -0400

someone got this wrong, because they don't allow trouble makers in the US Armed Forces- if you got a record, you aint' gettin' in there...if a uniform can hide your TATs, you might make it, beards...NO SIR...I am a decorated VET...my Son had a few traffic tickets, and they barred him from joining...if you can prove this, I'll listen Specialist Cody

Response by Paul Schoeberle made Mar 31 at 2018 7:58 AM

Paul Schoeberle — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:58:45 -0400

Maybe it's like the firefighters, if you have a beard your gas mask won't seat to your face.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Smith made Mar 31 at 2018 8:09 AM

PO2 Jonathan Smith — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 08:09:06 -0400

Really, you childish mentality is showing. “Well Bobby’s mama lets him do it...” Boy child get out of my military.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Smith made Mar 31 at 2018 8:21 AM

PO2 Jonathan Smith — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 08:21:50 -0400

Hey part timer, you can grow a beard! You just have to shave it one weekend a month. Seems like you’d rather “play soldier, than actually serve your country. 1. You are a new soldier , get some salt before trying to change things. 2. You are a part timer, which is great when we need to call in second or third string players. 3. You show your childishness when you argue “Bobby’s mom lets him stay up late” 4.) son .... you are a Slick sleeve, joining the Army Reserve doesn’t make you a General when you get out of boot. Grow up

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 9:42 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:42:21 -0400

Go spec ops if you want to grow one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 9:55 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:55:11 -0400

Perhaps lice and cleanliness are the reason we shave, plus shaving increases personal morale by 20%

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 11:10 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:10:42 -0400

The primary practical reason is that it interferes with the seal of the chemical/biological mask. It is very difficult to maintain a neat uniform appearance. For the Navy, I wish they could still grow them because sailors (to me at least) look great with neat "Czar Nicholas" beards. It makes them look salty. If you are an SF soldier and it is culturally or operationally important for you to have facial hair (Afghanistan) you grow it. We aren't the Royal Dutch Army, we don't allow individual expressions of personality. In most instances a sloppy looking soldier is a sloppy soldier. If you look like a soldier, and act like a soldier, you become a soldier in your subconscious self identity. Uniform doesn't always mean a garment, it is your appearance, it is your group identity, and it is a touch of self-pride to be a part of an exceptional military organization.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 12:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:51:27 -0400

Good luck getting your gas mask to get a proper seal with a beard.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 1:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 13:07:38 -0400

This has been a longstanding issue for debate. but I will provide my humble opinion on it. Being cleanly shaven from a personal hygiene standpoint is an easy argument, I can tell you that every time I was either in the field or in a deployed environment I would get that typical basic training cut and shave every day. Personally, I don't want anything to hinder the seal of my pro-mask and you know it will if you have a full face beard and hair on your neck. From a purely medical standpoint, having a beard especially in a field environment are proven to be significantly unsanitary. However; depending on a unit's mission, the mission commander could override the regulation (ie) Special Forces, Delta, Seals etc. Then the other argument is when was the last time we were attacked by a bona fide CBRNE agent??? but would you take that chance? IMHO

Response by SGT Eric Brown made Mar 31 at 2018 4:36 PM

SGT Eric Brown — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 16:36:53 -0400

Become a Sikh.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 7:37 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 19:37:16 -0400

Well I find it funny if there are grooming standards, then why arent they adhered to. I mean Ive seen people you have shaving profiles, still required to shave with an electric shaver, not even shave. Haircuts that aren't within regulation. So why would growing facial hair be anymore complex to make a stamdard. The thought about the mask not sealing properly, funny how firefighters wear masks to fight fires, and some departments allow them to grow facial hair. They have a standard. What about Police Departments that allow their officers to grow beards. They have to be prepared to wear a mask for riot control. Those are a few examples. So if they can make grooming standards for hair and shaving, they could also come up with one for those who want to grow beards.

Response by SGT Mike Hayes made Mar 31 at 2018 7:45 PM

SGT Mike Hayes — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 19:45:12 -0400

With rules no matter how frivolous you might think they are,comes discipline which is a must.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 8:09 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 20:09:00 -0400

As your friendly neighborhood Army Recruiter I can definitely tell you with 100 percent certainty that criminals, people with drug or alcohol abuse problems, overweight people and people who are unstable mentally are definitely not joining, that being said...what they do once they join is in their hands

Response by CPO Tom Palmer made Mar 31 at 2018 9:15 PM

CPO Tom Palmer — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 21:15:49 -0400

Strictly appearance. I was in the Navy and had a beard. I transferred to the USS Iowa and was ordered to shave because the ship was considered a high profile command. A year later, the entire US Navy was required to shave them off. A year later, I went to shore duty in Great Lakes, there were plenty of beards there. They were all on Brittish, German and Saudi sailors attending training. They looked more like seafarers and Viking fighting men than us!

Response by SPC Jason Liles made Mar 31 at 2018 10:18 PM

SPC Jason Liles — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 22:18:16 -0400

Because they said so. Follow orders and stop being a shit bag. Damn Blue Falcon

Response by MAJ John Green made Mar 31 at 2018 11:15 PM

MAJ John Green — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 23:15:37 -0400

Only Spec Ops on LURP duty should be allowed to grow beards. No time for personal grooming in the field!!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 12:16 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 00:16:49 -0400

I think you should be able to, they make a great point and I’m tired of bleeding out of my face while in the field just so I can get an infection and irritation while “unprofessional” blood dots all over my face

Response by PO3 Anthony Nichols made Apr 1 at 2018 4:25 AM

PO3 Anthony Nichols — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 04:25:37 -0400

Its the easiest way to prevent friendly fire incidents. Shoot everyone with a beard and you are all good. Most18 year olds want to grow beards but it really just looks like random pubic hair.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Apr 1 at 2018 9:28 AM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 09:28:57 -0400

Beyond refs and face masks, ask any SFC or above how many times they got passed over for the mustache before shaving and you might have another answer. LOL - tradition!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 9:35 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 09:35:44 -0400

If the Army allows that, then we don't need to do background check anymore. Where did you get this info

Response by SSG Michael Barnes made Apr 1 at 2018 10:14 AM

SSG Michael Barnes — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 10:14:39 -0400

The standards were put in place for a reason, to show we are professionals and proud of what we do in protecting our nation. So, just a few that don't take pride in that, doesn't define the services. Honor, integirty, are just a few of the things that make up our military.

Response by SFC Bruce Cole made Apr 1 at 2018 10:26 AM

SFC Bruce Cole — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 10:26:15 -0400

I don’t think they should have beards because of the protective mask, grooming problems in the field and deployments.

Response by SSG Carl Gamel made Apr 1 at 2018 10:36 AM

SSG Carl Gamel — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 10:36:13 -0400

Beards interfer with the proper sealing of a gas mask.

Response by Cpl John M Dutrow made Apr 1 at 2018 11:02 AM

Cpl John M Dutrow — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:02:44 -0400

GAS MASKS

Response by SP5 Bob Rudolph made Apr 1 at 2018 11:29 AM

SP5 Bob Rudolph — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:29:48 -0400

Because your chemical, biological, radiological mask won't seal and you will die or become disabled in the field. You can't help in the battle if that happens. Letting the troops in the middle east wear beards because the enemy wears beards is a bad management decision.

Response by Sgt Cody Hanks made Apr 1 at 2018 11:41 AM

Sgt Cody Hanks — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 11:41:28 -0400

had tons of little nasties with shave chits so that they didnt have to shave bare skin still made them use scissors to clean that junk up every week, lined them up in the shave chit squad and did it by the numbers

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Apr 1 at 2018 2:52 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 14:52:46 -0400

Well, the official reason when I was on active duty was that beards interfere with the protective mask and may prevent the tight seal we need for the mask to do its job. That made it seem a bit strange to me when the Army allowed Sikh's to enlist and continue to wear the beard and turban their faith requires. I guess I was more worried about not inhaling poison chemicals than about growing a beard. The micro-fine powdered agents in use today (Novichok, Dusty Mustard, etc.) are even more penetrating than the small droplets in use when I was serving.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2018 3:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 15:20:02 -0400

It is interesting to here the debates about regulation vs religion and what is right and what is wrong. Military regulations have been around long before any of us today even enlisted. I remember taking an oath. Some of you may recognize it "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." We are swear in saying we follow orders giving to us in accordance with regulations. Just as the private once said, " I don't know that no one told me." Well suck it up butter cup. It was in writing before you raised your hand and took this oath. If you wasn't sure what you was getting into then you should have done more research. You can find most if not all regulations online. Kennedy once said " Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." If you take an oath live up to it, and similiar to what Kennedy said, ask not what you military can change for you but how can you change for you millitary. All of us that have served know we when into the military with one view of life and learned many views while in the service. No matter how much we hate change the military has changed us. We the Troops or Veterans, know why we call every one else civilians. Let that sink in.

Response by SPC Arthur Cox made Apr 1 at 2018 4:34 PM

SPC Arthur Cox — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 16:34:15 -0400

Why not?

Response by CW4 Bernie Busby made Apr 1 at 2018 5:53 PM

CW4 Bernie Busby — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 17:53:27 -0400

Protective mask seal.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Apr 1 at 2018 7:28 PM

SGT Kyle Bickley — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 19:28:45 -0400

Your an E-4!? Grow your beard so you can look cool then we'll test your mask fit when I throw CS gas at your butt! While your rolling around in the ground gasping for air, snot hanging out of your nose three foot long, and your eye balls feel like a flame thrower just nailed them. I'll remind you, this is why you don't grow beards!

Response by SSG Wade Lindwedel made Apr 2 at 2018 3:27 AM

SSG Wade Lindwedel — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 03:27:00 -0400

So, I’ve been out for a while, but is the “facial hair prevents your gas mask from making a proper seal, this exposing your to harmful or fatal chemicals in an attack) answer now obsolete? Lord how I miss W2W counseling or as MY old DS used to call it “we gon have a word of prayer...”

Response by PO2 Danny Chaney made Apr 2 at 2018 8:33 AM

PO2 Danny Chaney — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 08:33:50 -0400

You will maintain the grooming standard !

Response by CW2 Paul Paulson made Apr 2 at 2018 10:06 AM

CW2 Paul Paulson — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 10:06:22 -0400

It’s idiotic and arbitrary is why. Some of our nations most heroic and honorable officer and enlisted men wore beards and fulfilled their duties with aplomb. (See civil war). Some jackhole came up with it.. figured it looked more “professional” based on his ideas and it made its way to 670-1. It has NO bearing on military bearing.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2018 12:45 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 12:45:59 -0400

3 Words. Gas Mask Seal.

Response by SSG Mike Farist made Apr 2 at 2018 1:33 PM

SSG Mike Farist — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 13:33:59 -0400

Gas,gas,gas

Response by GySgt Paul Andrews made Apr 2 at 2018 3:00 PM

GySgt Paul Andrews — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 15:00:57 -0400

I was disappointed when I heard about some waivers granted to felonies

Response by PO3 Brian Riley made Apr 2 at 2018 11:19 PM

PO3 Brian Riley — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 23:19:59 -0400

"Added headache for command" indeed! I was one of those who could just finish shaving, and on several ocassions find myself having to testify to that,... with witnesses! Good times!

Response by PO3 Paul Holcomb made Apr 3 at 2018 12:26 AM

PO3 Paul Holcomb — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 00:26:39 -0400

Because you're told to! Now drop and give me 10, NUB!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 5:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 05:49:24 -0400

In England you have to ask permission to get an opportunity to prove that you can grow a "full set" and if you are given the chance, you have either 4 or 6 weeks to prove that you can grow a presentable full set, if you cannot, the you have to shave, that opportunity is only for certain positions. The armed forces are not an equal opportunity employer, if you can't meet certain standards, then you cannot be in. I would love to have that as an option with the US armed forces but we broke away from Tyranny in 1776 and made our own country

Response by SGT Clinton Wike made Apr 3 at 2018 6:43 AM

SGT Clinton Wike — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 06:43:40 -0400

You’re not recommended to grow Beards because your gas mask will not seal properly on your face.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 8:00 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 08:00:33 -0400

Because (just like the baret for all Soldiers) only a few Soldiers would look good with a beard. We would be stuck with most male (or female to be PC) Soldiers looking like a bunch of shitheads!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 9:07 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 09:07:46 -0400

But my beard will inhibit the gas mask from functioning properly here in my office on post! Because we all carry gas masks everywhere we go in garrison...

Response by SP6 James Walker made Apr 3 at 2018 9:42 AM

SP6 James Walker — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 09:42:47 -0400

You should probably do a little research before posting something like this. Your intelligence is obviously in question.

Response by SFC Jonathan Barker made Apr 3 at 2018 1:32 PM

SFC Jonathan Barker — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:32:23 -0400

How about be the chain of command says so. You willingly chose to enlist or become commissioned knowing that there are standards to be upheld. Quit bitching and do your job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 1:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 13:57:12 -0400

Even those of us with shaving profiles, and who have permission from our commanders must shave while oconus for safety reasons. I understand that the SMA has stated that he has no problem with facial hair, however, it isn't going to happen eventhough a portion of the naval services had full facial hair until the late 80s.

Response by Sgt S.P. Woodke made Apr 3 at 2018 3:21 PM

Sgt S.P. Woodke — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:21:08 -0400

BECAUSE beards are unsat - disgusting and idiotic that's Enough about that! Use your common sense.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2018 3:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:39:16 -0400

I understand your frustrations, which lead to what basically amounts to a vent against the system. I have seen and been responsible for soldiers who should have been turned away at the recruiter's desk for one reason or another. Overweight, couldn't pass PT to save their lives, substance abuse issues, mentally unstable in some shape, form or fashion. I've damn near seen it all. All we can do is shake our heads, keep soldiering on, be the best soldier we know how to be, and let the Army do their jobs (if they're willing to, which is an entirely different conversation to itself).

Response by PO3 D. Scott Bessinger made Apr 3 at 2018 4:38 PM

PO3 D. Scott Bessinger — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 16:38:10 -0400

When I was in the Navy I remember when beards were allowed for petty officers, but I also remember on 01/01/1985 when everyone had to be clean shaven because standards changed.

Response by PO2 Alan Deardorff made Apr 3 at 2018 6:28 PM

PO2 Alan Deardorff — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 18:28:31 -0400

The beard fails to allow the gas mask to seal AND in a gas Attack YOU DIE! Other countries don’t care because they have tons of bodies or religious reasons for the beards.

Response by PO2 Alan Deardorff made Apr 3 at 2018 6:29 PM

PO2 Alan Deardorff — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 18:29:43 -0400

See my comment above re: beards and gas mask

Response by SGT Gerry Kramer made Apr 3 at 2018 8:28 PM

SGT Gerry Kramer — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 20:28:39 -0400

Ever try to seal a pro mask with a beard?

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Apr 4 at 2018 12:47 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 00:47:29 -0400

If it is for looks....appearance...that the US Army enforces the no beards (Unless you are in a specific protected class), then by all that is holy, a MALE in a Dress should draw way way more crosswise glances than a PFC in a beard.
I will state again, you can walk on all fours, peeing on trees and barking at people, and that does not make you a Beagle...Nope...I think the term Psychotic does in fact apply.

Response by Lt Col Mark Cox made Apr 4 at 2018 8:58 AM

Lt Col Mark Cox — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 08:58:51 -0400

Ditto...

Response by Cpl Christian Mills made Apr 4 at 2018 9:10 AM

Cpl Christian Mills — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:10:09 -0400

lice, mites, and other creepy crawlers..thats why no beards,,nuff said

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 4 at 2018 10:07 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:07:50 -0400

Kid , you are too young to grow hair! LOL

Response by PFC James Rexroad made Apr 4 at 2018 10:16 AM

PFC James Rexroad — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 10:16:28 -0400

Try wearing a beard during NBC training. They'll probably let you just for the lesson and laughs!

Response by PO2 James King made Apr 4 at 2018 11:09 AM

PO2 James King — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 11:09:53 -0400

In the Navy '78-'82 Beards were allowed you had to keep them trimmed and your neck clean shaven as to allow a good seal with your OBA (Oxygen Breathing Apparatus ) & Gas mask.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Apr 4 at 2018 12:46 PM

Jerry Rivas — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 12:46:32 -0400

Because some will look like Stonewall Jackson....And the whimpy GI's will look like shit.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 2:48 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 14:48:38 -0400

What happens in the off chance that you are put in a hand to hand combat situation, you want that enemy to have the opportunity and option the pull you to the ground by you’re beard and kill you? Just another reason why.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 4:06 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 16:06:38 -0400

Most shaving products, including the foaming creams and razors are spiked with anti-bacterial agents. These agents combined with the antiseptic action of the after-shave ensure that the skin is kept free from fungal or bacterial infections. This is the easiest way to ensure that your skin is able to neutralize the daily danger of skin infections.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2018 5:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 17:26:41 -0400

One reason we can’t have beards is due to professionalism; looking respectable and professional. The other reason we can’t have beards is in the off chance we are engaged in a CBRN environment, our gas masks don’t seal properly with facial hair. That’s why we can have mustaches but not beards, the mustache is “contained” within the mask. Firefighters follow the same rule because of their masks as well.

Response by SGT Jesse Sizemore made Apr 4 at 2018 8:50 PM

SGT Jesse Sizemore — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 20:50:18 -0400

Look at the people getting barred from renlistment over tatoos and other things.

Response by SGT Jesse Sizemore made Apr 4 at 2018 8:52 PM

SGT Jesse Sizemore — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 20:52:04 -0400

Whiskers? If we needed them the government would issue them.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Apr 5 at 2018 1:19 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 01:19:35 -0400

Because YOU are not in a "Protected Class" nor do you "Self Identify" as a Basset Hound

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 2:33 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 02:33:32 -0400

What’s next, man-buns?

Response by SPC Kevin Moslander made Apr 5 at 2018 9:01 AM

SPC Kevin Moslander — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 09:01:23 -0400

Although beards were obviously tolerated in the Civil War, by WWI, they were not allowed for two main reasons... Proper fit of gas masks as well as good hygiene

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Apr 5 at 2018 9:52 AM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 09:52:33 -0400

As my mother used to say to my siblings and me," I give you an inch and you take a mile!" When I joined the Navy in 1983 sailors were aloud to have beards, however by 1985 they were eliminated. The main reason they say was because PPE didn't fit properly with the beard causing toxins to leak into the mask. Anther reason is because some sailors could not keep it within regulations.

Response by Sgt John Garrett made Apr 5 at 2018 11:31 AM

Sgt John Garrett — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 11:31:53 -0400

The primary reason for shaving is to promote personal hygiene in the field. It is the same reason the military requires short haircuts. As a Marine, it would very much disturb me to see these regs compromised.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 11:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 11:37:39 -0400

The better question is; why is everyone all about growing a beard??? How is that important to the mission and why is it so important to the Soldier personally? You knew before you joined you can't grow a beard.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 12:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 12:31:04 -0400

Because AR 670-1, that's why. It detracts from the professional appearance of the uniform.

Unofficially, my guess would be so they don't give all the Sergeants Major in the Army an aneurism.

Response by PO1 Lee Keller made Apr 5 at 2018 3:03 PM

PO1 Lee Keller — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 15:03:43 -0400

I see nothing wrong with having a beard while in the military. I wore a beard while in the Navy until 1986 when the powers that be decided to ban beards.

Response by SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM made Apr 5 at 2018 3:47 PM

SFC Louis Willhauck, MSM, JSCM, and ARCOM — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 15:47:54 -0400

Try sealing a gas (Protective) mask over a beard.

Response by SN Thomas Brown made Apr 5 at 2018 5:56 PM

SN Thomas Brown — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 17:56:11 -0400

Always thought Beards were banned during WWI because soldiers couldn't get a proper seal on their gas mask.

Response by SGT John Lawrence made Apr 5 at 2018 5:58 PM

SGT John Lawrence — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 17:58:55 -0400

I was stationed in West Germany in the early 70’s when the directive come down from Brigade HQS allowing mustaches and from that point it went haywire as each person thought they were the only one who could do what they wanted in there mustache. It created a big headache trying to police the problem so keep it simple and clean faced is the way.

Response by SGT Michael Sierchio made Apr 5 at 2018 7:27 PM

SGT Michael Sierchio — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 19:27:55 -0400

Only specialize units like Delta and some other can get away with beards. Clean cut is the protocol.

Response by AN Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2018 8:29 PM

AN Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 20:29:31 -0400

Start a petition if you want a change otherwise don't bitch

Response by Cpl Carlos Acevedo made Apr 6 at 2018 12:06 AM

Cpl Carlos Acevedo — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 00:06:17 -0400

Because your gas mask won't seal.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 2:10 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 02:10:35 -0400

We are referred to as the being uniformed service members. Think about this, uniform. Regulations exist for how and when to wear different uniforms, covers and how your hair is to be worn. Everyone should look the same and have the same regulations applied to them. The individual should not stand out from the group. Every service member is a representative of the group. Aside from that everyone would have to conform to whatever regulation would be put in place. Given there are many beard styles I'm certain there would be nonconformist.

Response by CMSgt John Radle made Apr 6 at 2018 9:16 AM

CMSgt John Radle — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 09:16:38 -0400

Unless your a Shihk no beards. For every 3 days for 22 years I shaved. Even if I was I the field , I shaved.

Response by SFC Patrick Lahti made Apr 6 at 2018 9:31 AM

SFC Patrick Lahti — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 09:31:19 -0400

How would you seal your gas mask should you need it with a beard?

Response by SGT Marc Morris made Apr 6 at 2018 3:26 PM

SGT Marc Morris — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 15:26:28 -0400

You also have to make your bunk and keep your weapon in good working order

Response by Cpl Michael Hepler made Apr 6 at 2018 3:57 PM

Cpl Michael Hepler — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 15:57:45 -0400

What about the beard making your gas mask useless?

Response by SGT Richard Lampley made Apr 6 at 2018 7:18 PM

SGT Richard Lampley — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 19:18:53 -0400

In today’s world it’s almost camouflage. 670-1 was written by REMFS in a nice comfy chair. We all know what happens to TM’s and Regs when you hear that first snap.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2018 8:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 20:58:55 -0400

It is from what I remember to be able to seal your pro mask. Cannot do that with a beard.

Response by SSG Greg Skotzke made Apr 6 at 2018 9:38 PM

SSG Greg Skotzke — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 21:38:05 -0400

The Army of the 19th century had mustaches and sideburns. In the mid '60's had a first sergeant that believed your sideburns could be no lower than the top of your ear. Was a challenge. Other companies weren't as strict.

Response by SGT Derek Wynne made Apr 6 at 2018 11:28 PM

SGT Derek Wynne — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 23:28:53 -0400

Go ahead and grow a beard. Then go get captured by the enemy and see what they use to throw your raggity ass around. You've been watching too much duck dynasty with them saying it's part of their camouflage.

Response by SGT Derek Wynne made Apr 6 at 2018 11:31 PM

SGT Derek Wynne — Fri, 06 Apr 2018 23:31:09 -0400

Oddly enough the navy back in the day had things called "Z-grams", one of which stated men could grow facial hair but to a certain length and well maintained. If you think I'm bullshitting, look it up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 12:03 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 00:03:51 -0400

The only legit reason is it impedes properly sealing a gas mask, other than that because silly military reasons, the navy had really loose grooming standards in the mid to late 70's in regards to beards.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 12:44 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 00:44:38 -0400

I don’t think beards are far off. The standards have been slowly changing for awhile now and fewer people seem to be against it. Our SF guys allow beards in some circumstances and those are the guys who end up in charge of the most critical parts of the Military so probably in about 20 years when the next major conflict happens.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 1:23 AM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 01:23:39 -0400

If you don't like it then gtfo and don't reenlist don't worry someone will be there to pick up your slack.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 7:49 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 07:49:57 -0400

honestly the only thing you get out of having a beard is looking better. and if you’re in an environment that’s mainly men, why would you want to look better? unless of course you’re gay, because yanno new army new rules..

Response by SSG Wesley McGuffey made Apr 7 at 2018 8:12 AM

SSG Wesley McGuffey — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 08:12:12 -0400

Ok spec so here is what I see wrong with this. The first thing is because you need to learn the three C's comply comply comply. Next we are the U.S. Army not to be compared to any other Armed Forces. I was working for Recruiting Command and none of what you have said is true. Read your smart book, quit listening to the E-4 mafia and start educating yourself on standards. Not knowing them will get you caught up. The uniformity thing you speak of those is really more to make all basic pvts be equally shit. No one is greater than the other. I don't dislike you as a person or soldier because I don't know you but the younger soldiers these days are soft.

Response by SGT Thomas Carter made Apr 7 at 2018 9:17 AM

SGT Thomas Carter — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 09:17:08 -0400

Always shave. Look good in formation.

Response by Capt Ken Letterman made Apr 7 at 2018 1:47 PM

Capt Ken Letterman — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 13:47:24 -0400

Sorry- this old Marine says high and tight and clean shaven

Response by CPL Patrick Deininger made Apr 7 at 2018 3:42 PM

CPL Patrick Deininger — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 15:42:15 -0400

Might end being more of a problem then it's worth if 2" beard can properly mask but 2.5" breaches the seal, whose gonna be the yardstick? Probably best to just let it alone. Just my 2 cent's.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2018 4:12 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 16:12:21 -0400

To all those that say facial hair is unprofessional, would you consider a member with a no shaving profile as looking unprofessional?

If we allow it for medical reasons, which means no trimming or line up, then why not allow members to grow them and keep them well maintained?

I think the Australians/Canadians have it right (can’t remeber which country as it was RimPac) they allow their members to grow facial hair for a week, and if the Sgt. thinks it looks good in uniform then that member is allowed to grow it while keeping it in standards. That would prevent what most of the “frozen middle” are afraid of, Joe Dirt beards.

Response by SPC Edgar Torres made Apr 7 at 2018 5:02 PM

SPC Edgar Torres — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 17:02:37 -0400

This is funny shit here

Response by PO1 Martin Findley made Apr 7 at 2018 5:21 PM

PO1 Martin Findley — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 17:21:11 -0400

As a prior (1989 - 1992) Navy recruiter, I KNOW for a fact that your statement "The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military." is incorrect. I used to talk with other service branch recruiters and know that that is a false statement. Now, I will admit that the Army does enlist bullet catcher with lower mental groups (just joking y'all).

Response by SGT Jubal Sims made Apr 7 at 2018 8:30 PM

SGT Jubal Sims — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 20:30:16 -0400

So let’s look at this from another perspective: with the active targeting by several groups abroad or here at home, the “typical” military appearance has, in my opinion, become a force protection issue. High & tights and clean shaven faces immediately expose your military affiliation. I’ve spent the vast majority of my career with Special Forces who routinely have beards etc and I can tell you they are by far the most professional people I have ever worked with. I get the whole professional appearance thing, but a lot of times we overlook someone’s ability to soldier in favor of focusing on the fact that their mustache extends 1/32” past the corner of the mouth, or that their bun isn’t in the proper position etc.

Response by SSG Terry De La O made Apr 8 at 2018 12:05 AM

SSG Terry De La O — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 00:05:44 -0400

I now work in L.E. and often carry a pro mask so we can fight through chemical agents. Would you say chemical warfare is no longer a threat? Try to stay a mask with a full beard. Just saying

Response by SPC Steven Woods made Apr 8 at 2018 1:05 AM

SPC Steven Woods — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 01:05:32 -0400

man who ever wrote this dicked up so much that I don't feel like going in to detail but specifically the army/all us military branchrs does not allow beards for many reasons like sanitation and we are supposed to be held to a higher standard of professionalism, there are other factors but im done. I really do not see the problem with not having a beard though and any extra grooming would be such a hassal.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2018 1:15 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 01:15:46 -0400

Just a side note, it is difficult to properly seal a gas mask with too much facial hair as well. Being clean shaven could potentially save your life.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2018 7:29 AM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 07:29:18 -0400

Ok you combined tattoos with actual legal and psychotic issues. Tattoos don’t affect a persons ability to do their job. Psychosis, criminal history, and health do

Response by Sgt David Bishop made Apr 8 at 2018 1:44 PM

Sgt David Bishop — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 13:44:28 -0400

I was Air Force article 3510 says that you will be clean-shaven at all times when you are in uniform like it love it or lump it that's the way it is get over it

Response by SPC Walter Currier made Apr 8 at 2018 3:21 PM

SPC Walter Currier — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 15:21:42 -0400

same reason why they wont let old people join or re join...Some men cant grow beards and would feel inferior or be bullied by those with the ability to grow a full beard while eating breakfast....lol. The age limit is there because old men in their 40's cant usually perform the rigors of basic training and while we can maintain our physical condition and perform at or above standard on the APFT the idea of some 25year old staff sergeant yelling in my ear is would be alittle hard to swallow, tho i would love the opportunity to try it once more this time with the more mature outlook than I had at 17....actually I think 40somethings would make fine recruits to support MOS's or even team oriented combat roles...infantry may be a reach for some but that could be determined on a case by case. Beards would be cool in the navy, in the special circumstances in special operation areas but at the end of the day just like aged men in basic traing doesnt look good a clean shaved soldier just looks better than a bunch of scraggley beards...just my opinion.

Response by Cpl Lloyd Martin made Apr 8 at 2018 6:04 PM

Cpl Lloyd Martin — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 18:04:58 -0400

DON'T see what the harm is with facial hair or leangth of hair. Neither one hampers the ability to fire a weapon.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2018 7:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 19:38:01 -0400

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member - Beards interfere with the proper wear of gas masks. In the same camp, the hair styles that are authorized for females also cannot interfere with a gas mask.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2018 9:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 21:33:58 -0400

Grow your beard when you ets and become a contractor. Then you’ll have the best of both worlds

Response by SPC Mark Schroeder made Apr 8 at 2018 11:11 PM

SPC Mark Schroeder — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 23:11:28 -0400

Because someone with a vagina said it looks gross.

Response by PFC Randall Wallen made Apr 8 at 2018 11:54 PM

PFC Randall Wallen — Sun, 08 Apr 2018 23:54:03 -0400

Well I kinda agree. I mean i did contract on base and dam the amount of soldiers that dont know there mos is to include the dam higher ups that are definitely supposed to know is amazing. I mean I understand if your hidden away for months on in in a office and only see the vehicle your supposed to operate 1 time a year but for the others no excuse. 88ms and what ever the mechanics code is now. There are some dumbass soldiers now

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 9 at 2018 12:31 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:31:56 -0400

As I understand it, I've known of instances where, for cold weather, I've read of instances where it was allowed, either to retain body heat, or because shaving was simply impractical...I've also read of instances, I'm fairly sure, when Navy, I think, had allowed it...the problem is, as I perceive it, one of uniformity...if you give a human an inch, they're pretty much inclined to take a mile. Gas typically expands to fill an available volume...once you unlock that Pandora's Box, it's kind of hard to shut the door again, you know? There was something else I'd thought of that you might find interesting to read, let me try to find it first, OK?

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 9 at 2018 12:33 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:33:06 -0400

https://www.stripes.com/news/sikh-army-enlistees-file-lawsuit-seeking-beard-turban-exemptions-1.401891

Read this, OK?

Sikh Army enlistees file lawsuit seeking beard, turban exemptions

Three Sikhs who recently enlisted in the Army and are bound for basic training in May have filed a lawsuit demanding the military allow them to wear their beards and turbans in uniform as their faith requires.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 9 at 2018 12:34 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:34:09 -0400

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/06/army-allows-sikhs-permanent-exemptions-to-wear-beards-turbans.html

And you'll just love this one...

Army Allows Sikhs Permanent Exemptions to Wear Beards and Turbans

The Army has made it easier for Sikhs and observers of other religions to serve while upholding the tenets of their faiths.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Apr 9 at 2018 12:37 AM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 00:37:05 -0400

I mean, there obviously had to be good reason to allow it...I just figured you'd find those interesting examples of instances where there had apparently been exceptions, due to some clear need and/or justification...I'd be most eager for your thoughts, you raise an interesting point, certainly, I just figured you'd find interesting seeing a couple of concrete examples of sites dealing with exactly that topic, honest, many thanks...

Response by GySgt Craig Averill made Apr 9 at 2018 4:11 AM

GySgt Craig Averill — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 04:11:18 -0400

Can't put on your gas mask

Response by PFC Jason Brown made Apr 9 at 2018 9:02 AM

PFC Jason Brown — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 09:02:10 -0400

I think beards should be allowed. Length should still be regulated. And must be groomed. Should still be some type of standard.

Response by FN George Johnston made Apr 9 at 2018 9:24 AM

FN George Johnston — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 09:24:57 -0400

No Beards. !!!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2018 12:39 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 12:39:58 -0400

I don't agree with the statement made about criminals and such being allowed to join the armed forces. I recruited for over 3 years and can tell you that even the slightest blemish on your record can make it very difficult to be allowed to serve. The US military is not a second, third or last choice for a career as maybe it has been viewed in the past. It is very competitive from a salary standpoint and the benefits cannot be found elsewhere.

On the subject of facial hair, I do believe that the DoD should take a more in depth look at possible rule changes. Of course we would still need standards to maintain, to present a professional appearance but I believe it could significantly imoact moral in a good way.

Response by SGT Dusty Roth made Apr 9 at 2018 8:17 PM

SGT Dusty Roth — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 20:17:08 -0400

You absolutely CAN grow a beard. As long as it remains beneath the surface of your skin.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2018 8:24 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 20:24:33 -0400

Don’t know if this has been said yet but in the unfortunate event that you have to use a gas mask a beard will hinder the mask from making a seal to your face.

Response by MCPO Jd Donohoe made Apr 9 at 2018 8:47 PM

MCPO Jd Donohoe — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 20:47:29 -0400

Time and place gents. It does serve a purpose... intimidation for one.

Response by HN Chris Lepperd made Apr 9 at 2018 9:22 PM

HN Chris Lepperd — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 21:22:33 -0400

When I was on active duty as a Hospital Corpsman(early to mid-80s) Many of my shipmates had beards. IMHO they looked quite professional. Also, GI Joe looked badness with his beard and scarred cheek!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2018 9:41 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 21:41:08 -0400

I'm all for allowing beards. And for those that are against it should look at "no shave chits" and then discuss uniformity.

Response by SPC Phil Orem Jr. made Apr 9 at 2018 11:23 PM

SPC Phil Orem Jr. — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 23:23:57 -0400

Short just like with a mustache.

Response by SGT Bubba Gossett made Apr 10 at 2018 1:28 AM

SGT Bubba Gossett — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:28:21 -0400

Prevents a proper sealwhen you dawn your chemical mask.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 1:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:51:45 -0400

Want to grow a beard in the military? They have a number of selection opportunities where you can man up and try out for a unit that allows them. If you don't have the testicular fortitude to do so, then don't complain about having to match your face with a baby's ass.

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Apr 10 at 2018 1:56 AM

MSG Louis Alexander — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 01:56:44 -0400

Stay clean and presentable, case closed.

Response by Capt Dennis Tague made Apr 10 at 2018 10:59 AM

Capt Dennis Tague — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 10:59:11 -0400

Go special ops, or get out and put pizzas on a conveyor belt. Even there you have to cover it so critters don't fall on the pizzas.

Response by SN Jordan Chandler made Apr 10 at 2018 1:36 PM

SN Jordan Chandler — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:36:07 -0400

when exposed to gasses your mask will not seal properly with a beard

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2018 1:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:54:21 -0400

Why???...Too easy!!!! Cant comply with AR670-1... ETS!!!!GET OUT!!! and let it grow.

Response by SSG Saul Serna made Apr 10 at 2018 2:05 PM

SSG Saul Serna — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:05:13 -0400

Wow!!! What ever happened to discipline and prestige in the military. I'm proud I retired in the early 90s when there was still pride and discipline when we wore our uniforms without having to look like " Joe shit the rag man."

Response by SFC Rick Walton made Apr 10 at 2018 4:04 PM

SFC Rick Walton — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 16:04:34 -0400

It is true the reason you cannot have a beard is because of protective mask sealing issues. Discovered the hard way largely during WWI. If you wish to assume the risk, I say more power to you. The better question would be; why do we have seperate hair grooming standards for male and females? There is no practicle or safety reason for this. It is a socially driven gender expectation. Make it true equality in every aspect you can. Either guys can grow hair and nails or gals need to cut em off (likewise for facial hair). I got in trouble for asking a Drill Sergeant about a female PAC clerks beard. I just asked why she was allowed to let it go free when shaving profiles usually specify allowable growth length (usually around 1/8")

Response by SGT John Hemenway made Apr 10 at 2018 7:07 PM

SGT John Hemenway — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:07:21 -0400

The best way to make an argument look flawed, is to have someone represent it poorly. SPC Voye, stating that a lack of standards in some areas of the service (however imagined), should allow standards to be loosened in another is a terrible means by which to persuade anyone - especially people in the Military. However easy it is to dismiss SPC Voye's line of reasoning, does not mean that the argument itself can be easily dismissed. Consider the following:

- Troops must be clean-shaven when deployed, or in an area where an elevated CBRNE threat exists (for example - The Republic of Korea)
- Commanders may require shaving for work safety, health in field-conditions, or for uniformity during parades, or dining events.
- Regulations be expanded to set the maximum length, and allowable area of facial hair growth when in garrison, or when allowed overseas. (see picture)

The military could absolutely allow beards. The reason it doesn't, is because it hasn't. The Army fears change. It always has, and it always will. It's that simple.

Response by Capt Steve Combes made Apr 10 at 2018 7:31 PM

Capt Steve Combes — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 19:31:11 -0400

All the branches opened this Pandoras Box by allowing their special operations people to grow beards. The idea was supposedly to allow them to blend in. Nice try. Now it’s just a perk. Now the rest of the troops want them. Let the brass sort this one out.

Response by PO2 Eric Kelly made Apr 10 at 2018 11:04 PM

PO2 Eric Kelly — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 23:04:14 -0400

Can't get a good seal on gas masks and SCABs with a beard

Response by SGT Jan Mitchell made Apr 10 at 2018 11:21 PM

SGT Jan Mitchell — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 23:21:05 -0400

Understood and appreciated!

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2018 5:59 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 05:59:06 -0400

Over here on post many, and I do mean many of the black guys have a beard. On the posts I've been to, the black guys get to have beards and white guys are told to bleed and bear it.
Also, the Navy had beards back in the 70's I was told.
Finally, the leftists interested only in equity in our ranks would call beards sexist because the females (mostly) couldn't grow them. I think it should depend on MOS.

Response by SPC Kyle De Wolf made Apr 11 at 2018 9:56 AM

SPC Kyle De Wolf — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:56:20 -0400

Fair enough-beards are fine if it doesn’t interfere with a specific utilitarian purpose like wearing a pro-mask. I don’t support the culture of conformity. A free country should have a free military.

Response by SSG Charles McDaniel made Apr 11 at 2018 9:57 AM

SSG Charles McDaniel — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:57:04 -0400

It is not conducive to the environments in which Army personnel need to operate, with the exception of those personnel operating in areas where beards are an integral part of the society and considered to be a sign of manhood and someone to be respected, there really is not purpose for a beard.
They are not compatible with gas masks, can become an issue when not maintained properly causing many different problems to include lice infestation. Furthermore beards have never been a part of Army history except for the earlier years when beards were more of a socially accepted dress for men.
Suck it up, grow a pair and get back to being a soldier, I you want to grow a beard, go Special Ops and live in the desert, it's not really fun. Or, get out and grow one of the many hipster beard fashions.

Response by CWO4 Randy Litka made Apr 11 at 2018 10:06 AM

CWO4 Randy Litka — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:06:11 -0400

I know that in many services, facial hair is not allowed because you cannot get a complete seal on an SCBA or a mask (chemical attack, etc...). Your beard would not allow for a proper seal with the mask and that could put your life and others at risk.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Apr 12 at 2018 4:22 AM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 04:22:00 -0400

beards cause many hygene problems when in the field

Response by SGT Christopher Edwards made Apr 12 at 2018 9:48 AM

SGT Christopher Edwards — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 09:48:23 -0400

Because we volunteered for the military, and they dont let you! Next question?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2018 5:38 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:38:56 -0400

For me mostly genetics.

Response by MSG James Bates made Apr 12 at 2018 11:07 PM

MSG James Bates — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 23:07:40 -0400

We don't grow beards because our Protective Mask will not get a good seal to your face, and you will breathe in the Bad Stuff.

Response by A Wiegert made Apr 14 at 2018 3:06 AM

A Wiegert — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 03:06:37 -0400

I love that this discussion is trending here. A nice break from awaiting missile strike reprisals.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2018 7:54 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 19:54:44 -0400

Antiquated perception of professionalism, plain and simple. To argue otherwise is intelligently dishonest. Change needs to come. Shaving cost Soldiers hundreds of dollars a does nothing to improve any significant area of being a “Soldier”

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2018 12:26 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 12:26:28 -0400

It's simple. In garrison it's a grooming standard for professionalism. In the field your protective mask will not seal properly with facial hair. The Civil war days are gone, the enemy has NBC capabilities now.

Response by Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire made Apr 19 at 2018 8:30 AM

Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 08:30:07 -0400

We were not allowed beards in Nam either. I thinks its all about, "military respect", or the person who made this rule was a female officer......!

Response by SFC Thomas Butler made Apr 19 at 2018 4:14 PM

SFC Thomas Butler — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 16:14:22 -0400

Because the Chief of Staff of the United States Army says that you can't. Concentrate on training and fighting and not BS.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Apr 19 at 2018 9:51 PM

MAJ Hugh Blanchard — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 21:51:26 -0400

Nerve agent, blood agent, blister agent, both dispersed as small droplets or fine dusty particles. You want to die of chemical agent poisoning or look cool?

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Apr 20 at 2018 1:36 AM

Capt Jeff S. — Fri, 20 Apr 2018 01:36:17 -0400

It's called a gas mask...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 3:57 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:57:57 -0400

I love this question. Sometime after WWI Americans and the Military got it into their heads that "good guys" were always clean shaven and had short hair.

The problem with beards is that it makes it difficult to enforce uniformity of "appearance" among the ranks. Uniformity has long been associated with military discipline. It's been understood for some time that having a baseline "skills and equipment" uniformity across units makes the job of military planner's easier and the likelihood of successful plans higher.
At some point it was slowly decided that this uniformity should also apply to "appearance". In reality our military has grown beyond that. We have mixed races and genders into our ranks (successfully). We have Soldiers with religious exemptions for beards. As it turns out we will never again be able to have complete uniformity of appearance and still we have uniformity of skills and equipment.

We need to evolve our thinking on this. IMO, we should bring beards back and real military dress uniforms (with high collars).

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 5:55 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 05:55:31 -0400

Because most of you are too young to grow anything that wouldn't look horrific, and upper management would rather we not all look like hobos.

Response by Erin Nelson made Apr 23 at 2018 8:47 AM

Erin Nelson — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 08:47:31 -0400

Why would we allow psychotics to serve militarily, when civilly they are deemed prohibited possessors. I believe drug use can return you to civilian status or possibly earn you a slumber party at club fed. Should be able to have a beard if you are a lifer, though depending on region of deployment. From a distance a nice clean face may be the best first indicator of friend or foe.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Apr 23 at 2018 10:11 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 10:11:26 -0400

They recently allowed a Heathen (Norse) to have a religious exemption for a beard.

This adds on to the Sikhs and Muslims in the past. The list continues to grow.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Apr 23 at 2018 10:31 PM

SFC William Farrell — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 22:31:28 -0400

We should be allowed to SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member

Response by Cpl Bob Cloninger made Apr 23 at 2018 11:15 PM

Cpl Bob Cloninger — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:15:41 -0400

Ever worn a gas mask, fired an M4, or buckled a helmet on with a beard? Picked lice or mud out of a beard? Sure, grooming standards, but there are practical reasons too.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 7:24 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 07:24:17 -0400

Don't worry. In a hundred years from now, when the Army finally gets the Storm Trooper uniforms, facial hair will be the norm.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 7:37 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 07:37:36 -0400

Let me tell you a story.......
Soldiers: "Hey Army, why can't we grow beards?"
Army: "Because, that's what's in the reg."
Soldiers: "But that's not really relevant anymore...."
Army: "Ok, we'll think about it."
Soldiers: "Thanks Army for at least considering it."
*Syrian Gas attacks*
Army: "Nah, we're gonna stick with the regs"
Soldiers: "DAMNIT!"

Response by CWO2 James Mathews made Apr 24 at 2018 8:10 AM

CWO2 James Mathews — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 08:10:49 -0400

At one time in the dark, distant, past, when I was a Torpedo Division Officer, the question came up about beards. I checked with the Dept. Head and he said beards were okay with him, as long as you could get a seal on an emergency mask. Of the 57 men in my division I had one outspoken CPO and a couple of others who brought the problem to a head one day, and asked me for a decision. At that time I was clean shaven. Finally, I made the following decision; I was going on leave, and I told the Division that when I returned I would have a beard. Anyone who wanted a beard would have one just like mine, and other strange ideas or designs would be forgotten. My outspoken Chief mentioned something about the Head of the Navy and the Captain, so I took him aside and told him, "All you have to worry about is me!" For the remainder of my Navy career I maintained the beard, neatly trimmed, always easily fitted and sealed with an emergency mask, and to this day, some 44 years later I still wear that beard. Neatly trimmed, and because my wife admires it! My thought is, that if your boss supports your actions, a little thoughtful leadership may well solve the problem.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Apr 24 at 2018 5:34 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 17:34:23 -0400

No problem...just change your religion to Sikhism and you can wear the turbin and grow a beard. NOW BEFORE I GET HATE RESPONSES...I am not picking on Sikhs...very peaceful religion. I am picking on the Army for allowing them to wear beards an turbins which makes them anything but uniform...it is called a uniform for a reason!!!

Response by SGT Al Mount made Apr 25 at 2018 1:35 PM

SGT Al Mount — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 13:35:28 -0400

Couldn't get a tight fit on a gas mask, same reason Firemen don't have beards.

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Apr 26 at 2018 1:06 AM

CSM Patrick Durr — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 01:06:21 -0400

My advice, ETS, grow your beard...if you can.

Response by SPC Steven Oxley made Apr 26 at 2018 11:18 AM

SPC Steven Oxley — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:18:28 -0400

IMO it all has to do with uniformity and discipline. As an old fart I don't agree with a lot of the present changes.

Response by MSgt Dick Robson made Apr 27 at 2018 7:46 PM

MSgt Dick Robson — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 19:46:16 -0400

Facial hair? Good luck sealing that gas mask.

Response by COL John Hudson made Apr 28 at 2018 7:44 AM

COL John Hudson — Sat, 28 Apr 2018 07:44:31 -0400

From the IG Desk: Waivers are available for a number of personal issues and each one is 'issue specific.' Such dispensations are reviewed and approved/disapproved by competent authority within the scope of the requested waiver. During my career, I observed a number of service members unshaven and/or sporting a beard of sorts. Local command medical authority issued time specific waivers due to allergy or similar problems. While servicing as IG for the 1st Cav in Bosnia (1998), service members were warned about tattoos. Six young men, on R&R in Budapest, ignored that guidance. On return, several fell ill and were diagnosed with human immunodeficiency virus infection/acquired immune deficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS) as a result. Please see your local IG and educate yourself concerning the topics you have outlined. There are restrictions placed on the practices noted and are there for very good reasons. While the points made are of interest, they appear to be unsupported generalizations. Concerning reference to other military organizations; the United States military in its various branches holds to a much higher standard.

Response by SGT Mark Saint Cyr made Apr 29 at 2018 9:45 PM

SGT Mark Saint Cyr — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 21:45:07 -0400

When I was in, the type of protective gear for NBC attacks simply would not seal properly if you had face fur. This may have changed since I was in, I really don't know.

Different countries use different weapons, and protective gear. Another nation may have a mask wherein it protects just as well if you have a beard.

Personally, I don't feel that a beard allows for a neat appearance, but this is personal preference.

As for personnel who various issues, such as what you have mentioned, they either must be controllable with medicine, for those with psychological problems. Psychotic personalities are a term used by you, and I don't believe that the army would ever use such, simply because such people can't be controlled efficiently.

Others who don't look professional (in your opinion) must be obeying the rules of the command they are in, or they too would be deemed unfit and discharged.

Once in a while, I remember when on active duty, I would see some soldiers come in late to the barracks, never stand formations, or never stand any duties. Often these would be specialized personnel who may also be using your barracks. Cooks, Chaplain's assistants, Medical personnel and sometimes even MPs may all fall into this category, simply because they was no where else to house an individual.

That guy you think is a lousy soldier, may be an undercover MP, who is in for a few days to get a fresh change of clothes, and sleep, which may not be possible, depending on his duties.

I am hazarding a guess that you are a military member on active duty? Be aware, that a large number of troops that you may see on an active duty post may come from a National Guard unit. Such units may be a bit more lax in following military discipline, and may have uniform violations, or they may simply not have the latest issue of military clothing, because their guard unit is on a lower priority than that of the unit you currently serve in. I ran into that in the mid 80's wherein the active duty personnel had all switched to what was then the new BDU or battle dress uniform, replacing the old olive drab fatigues. But the NG units in AZ still allowed fatigues, and even old jungle uniforms until the late 80's simply because NG personnel do not pay for their uniforms and must wait for a new enlistment to get a new issue of clothing unlike active duty personnel who had a uniform allowance in their monthly check.

If you are still unsure as to why not in any of these cases, take up the issue with your local Sergeant Major. He should know all the reasons why or why not of certain personnel. In many cases, the issue may be above your pay grade or your need to to know. You need to be prepared for that.

Response by PO3 John Wagner made Apr 29 at 2018 11:27 PM

PO3 John Wagner — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:27:39 -0400

Can’t fight city hall I suppose.

Response by SMSgt Ruth Steele Vogel made May 4 at 2018 6:37 PM

SMSgt Ruth Steele Vogel — Fri, 04 May 2018 18:37:05 -0400

Surely you knew the rules before you joined! You can try the coast guard or the Boy Scouts!

Response by Cadet SFC Rev. David Doellinger made May 4 at 2018 6:51 PM

Cadet SFC Rev. David Doellinger — Fri, 04 May 2018 18:51:18 -0400

I was taught that you need a tight seal on MOP gear. As a volunteer firefighter we are not supposed to have beards. I have worn my SCBA in a fire with a full beard and I was OK.

Response by 1SG Marc Jensen made May 6 at 2018 7:41 AM

1SG Marc Jensen — Sun, 06 May 2018 07:41:28 -0400

Many reason have already been stated. The real question is why do people want them. Some will refer to 'operational requirements', which in reality is nothing more than an excuse; an American is easy enough to identify, regardless of facial hair, indigenous clothing, or other choices. Then there is the whole 'cultural' excuse; the Afghans have seen Americans for 17 years, know that the professional US military member doesn't wear a beard, and that many of their countrymen (military and civilian) don't wear beards. It comes down to people do what they can get away with, much like the wildly different policies on alcohol consumption in theatre compared to what was once universally accepted as normal and allowed.

Response by SCPO Larry Knight Sr. made May 10 at 2018 9:23 PM

SCPO Larry Knight Sr. — Thu, 10 May 2018 21:23:11 -0400

SOCOM operator's have that privilege in theater abroad, how ever once stationed in CONUS it's back to the uniform of the day ...

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 14 at 2018 3:16 PM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Mon, 14 May 2018 15:16:28 -0400

BLUF - it is outdated - the "cant seal your mask" line is bovine fecal matter - if our allies, who have to face the same threats we do , can have neatly trimmed beards and they do not have issues utilizing a pro-mask, then a) our pro masks suck, or b) we are fed some bovine fecal matter. call a spade a spade, this rule is one of those "because I said so" rules.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2018 6:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 May 2018 06:41:23 -0400

Other than discussing each piece, you can grow a beard as long as you put in the Exemption to Policy for (until further notice) Religious Accommodations. As per Army Directive 2016-34 you can get approval to grow a beard out. [https://www.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/454020.pdf]

Response by Sgt Douglas Berger made May 15 at 2018 2:43 PM

Sgt Douglas Berger — Tue, 15 May 2018 14:43:22 -0400

Wait a few more years and your facial hair will grow better with age.

Response by SGT Paul Crossgrove made May 17 at 2018 11:59 AM

SGT Paul Crossgrove — Thu, 17 May 2018 11:59:22 -0400

The 'gas' mask will not provide the proper seal around your damn head. Are you in the military? It appears you are just trying to create a conversation here.

Response by MAJ John Douglas made May 29 at 2018 10:14 AM

MAJ John Douglas — Tue, 29 May 2018 10:14:15 -0400

I guess being treated equally is only good when it fits her agenda?

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made May 30 at 2018 8:19 PM

MAJ Bill Maynard — Wed, 30 May 2018 20:19:23 -0400

Sure let's revoke General Order #1 as well since the rest of NATO is imbibing 24/7!

Response by PO1 Scott Cottrell made May 31 at 2018 7:11 PM

PO1 Scott Cottrell — Thu, 31 May 2018 19:11:12 -0400

Well I know why the Navy did away with allowing beards, Because you can't get a good seal on the OBA's (Firefighting equipment, also it put out pure Oxygen, so beards would catch fire with a small spark after wearing OBA's). Same goes for gas masks. So, it's not grooming thing as much as a keeping you from dying thing.

Response by MAJ Bill Maynard made Jun 6 at 2018 4:41 AM

MAJ Bill Maynard — Wed, 06 Jun 2018 04:41:04 -0400

Here's some interesting info on your question. Like every military tradition, it usually grows from a practical purpose. In this case, it helped Soldiers in combat and prevented the spread of lice. I found this at http://calvusguy.blogspot.com/2012/11/a-close-shave.html if you want to read more.

Of course, Romans didn't just have their nails to worry about, throughout much of classical history, the clean-shaven look was the in thing - until Hadrian came along with a bad case of acne scars and grew the first all-over Imperial beard. There was a practical point to shaving in ancient times too - Roman soldiers shaved so enemy combatants didn't have any whiskers to grab during hand-to-hand combat. And, as a whole, Roman society eschewed all body hair below the scalp (and I mean all hair), initially to combat body lice, but no doubt, as now, because it was fashionable.

A close shave

Kicking the dirt off Roman History and finding what's hidden underneath. News, reviews and fun from the Ancient World.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 14 at 2018 3:04 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Jun 2018 15:04:48 -0400

SPS Voye,

If you are interested in growing a beard, since you're in the US Army, you should apply for Ranger School and eventually move up to the elite Special Forces. If you are just asking just for the hell of it, the answer to your question is this: because it's against regulations.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jun 17 at 2018 5:03 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:03:48 -0400

I just got done reading an article that non combatant soldiers ( boots, Kiwis ) were upset that combat vet soldiers were wearing combat patches and they didn’t have any “special “ patch to wear. So, we know not everyone can grow a beard. So, in an effort not to give Boots a reason to cry, no beards allowed.

Response by CW3 Vic Matthews made Jun 17 at 2018 8:18 PM

CW3 Vic Matthews — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 20:18:04 -0400

Your protective mask will not seal correctly

Response by MAJ James Woods made Jun 18 at 2018 2:05 PM

MAJ James Woods — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:05:15 -0400

"The Army allows people with full sleeve tattoos, criminal history, drug/alcohol abuse problems, overweight people, and now psychotic people serve in the military."?
Tattoos have been an on again off again debate about what image we want to present to the American public. Criminal history? Waivers for non-violent offenders and at one time was used rehabilitate a person in service to the country. Not always successful. As for the other troubling characteristics, blame your chain of command for not doing a better job chaptering individuals for failing to meet Army standards of fitness, discipline, and conduct.
As for the facial hair, again has to do with the clean image for public appearance and how facial hair caused problems for the earlier versions of gas masks. Times have change but the main argument will come down to "what image of a soldier do we want to advertise?".

Response by MSgt Jack Steel made Jun 18 at 2018 3:59 PM

MSgt Jack Steel — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:59:12 -0400

Gas Mask fit

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 18 at 2018 5:14 PM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:14:33 -0400

Just become a Sikh and you can grow one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2018 8:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 20:44:52 -0400

I hate when soldiers ask this. If you want to look like an operator, operate.

Response by MSgt David Hawkyard made Jun 19 at 2018 10:58 PM

MSgt David Hawkyard — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:58:14 -0400

That's a very small but specific reason that we kick the shit out of all others....uniformity adds to brotherhood which leads to a fellow brother doing everything he/she can to make sure you and they fight and won and come home...want a beard?? Get out...join a foreign service or get in line and be on the winning team. PERIOD

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2018 5:56 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:56:33 -0400

Apart from violating grooming standards and gas mask seal reasons:
No profile that allows it
No mission that requires it
No religion that says it's part of it

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 4:45 PM

LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Jul 2018 16:45:23 -0400

When I went into the field or downrange I even shaved my mustache off. cleanliness was the reason. A number one haircut was also my choice. If you want sweaty, oily facial hair, go right ahead.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2018 8:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jul 2018 08:22:53 -0400

“Groooming staaaandards.”
-Sgt. Maj. John Sixta

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made Jul 17 at 2018 1:49 AM

Sgt Anthony Leverington — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 01:49:58 -0400

Even though I served in the Air Force, I've been TDY to quite a few Army bases. The one and ONLY base I've ever been to that allowed beards (actually required them) was, (Classified). They also wore long hair but, it was due to the specific nature of their mission. Unfortunately, I can't tell you the name of the base, where it is or what their mission is but, lets just say...........they needed to be able to "blend in".

Response by PO3 James Barker made Jul 17 at 2018 1:34 PM

PO3 James Barker — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 13:34:10 -0400

ADM Elmo Zumwalt was CNO when I was in the navy('70-'74). He authorized beards, with certain guidelines. I had a beard during my 4 years, and 8 years reserves. Years after my separation, I heard that beards were no longer authorized, due to the deaths of 2 sailors wearing OBA's during a fire. Both sailors had beards.

Response by MSgt Joshua Jobe made Jul 17 at 2018 7:50 PM

MSgt Joshua Jobe — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 19:50:01 -0400

The military is already adjusting to people instead of people adjusting to the military way of life. Women are allowed lochs or whatever they are called and men can now where earrings (Hopefully I read it right, earrings out of uniform and off installation). Transgender is allowed and procedures paid for. Just as someone else mentioned, let's throw in the religious exemption. Beards can be just as professional when properly groomed.

Response by Sgt Ronald Harris made Jul 21 at 2018 5:46 PM

Sgt Ronald Harris — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:46:21 -0400

We were always told that our image has to match your photo ID

Response by SFC Stanley Sayers made Jul 24 at 2018 12:37 PM

SFC Stanley Sayers — Tue, 24 Jul 2018 12:37:24 -0400

Obviously some NCO or Officer has reprimanded you for your lax grooming efforts. You either get on the bus or get off when it’s your time to get out. When you put on the uniform you are saying you will obey the orders of those over you. That includes obeying all of the regulations concerning wear of the uniform, grooming standards and other regulations as deemed good order for military members. Bottom line...... Do your job and when your term of duty ends..... get out!

Response by SFC Mark Klaers made Jul 27 at 2018 6:39 AM

SFC Mark Klaers — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 06:39:53 -0400

Putting issues like NBC and a proper fitting "pro-mask" aside, it just looks like crap.

Response by Lt Col John Culley made Aug 2 at 2018 2:28 PM

Lt Col John Culley — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 14:28:54 -0400

Unlike the navy submariners, army and marine corps personnel are not allowed to grow beards which is stupid and dangerous in the Middle East where going without a beard is like wearing a bulls eye. The Union army wore beards during the Civil War and won their fight but the army and marines weren't allowed to grow beards in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan and were not allowed to win any of these fights. Why is that?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2018 6:58 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Aug 2018 06:58:13 -0400

I don’t know why they don’t just allow it. I have had one for years during my career and never had any issues getting a seal on my Promask or on my O2 mask doing MFF jumps. The reason it is not allowed dates back to WW1 and WW2 where soldiers had infestations of lice but we don’t live in those conditions any longer. Then as times have changed you have the die hard SGM’s who can’t allow change and have to come up with unchallenged excuses as to why you can’t have a beard. Your mask won’t seal! You won’t look professional! You won’t be able to shoot as good! Your PT will suffer if you grow a beard! Hahaha. Guys just scared to adapt. Those guys should never be allowed to stay in the army. That’s the problem with the army the guys who have the power are the ones who should never have been allowed to make it to that position. The great guys move on to other things and most will retire right at 20 years as an E7 or E8 because of the dumb stuff. Sorry for the rant but I tell it like it is! Hahaha

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Aug 12 at 2018 3:43 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Sun, 12 Aug 2018 03:43:23 -0400

I will admit I have not read ALL of the comments and responses, but I have read a WHOLE lot of horse puckey, starting with OP.

SPC Voye, your very premise is horribly flawed. There is a huge difference between who the Army intentionally tales in and who slips through the cracks, I.e. fraudulently enlists. And there is also a difference between entry and retention standards. I recently retired, but I could have served for a few years more if I had wanted to. But there is no way in hell I would be allowed to join in my current physical (and mental) condition.

Next, for all of the "shut up and obey" / "if you don't like it, get out" folks, your input here is less than worthless. SPC Voye asked what your opinion on the subject is, he didn't say that he was planning on flouting the rules. I kept my face clean shaven for 20+ years, but I had some heartburn over it, especially considering the constant skin irritation / razor bumps despite spending exorbitant amount of money on top shelf razors, shaving gel, and aftershave skin conditioner. (No shaving profile for me - I'm white. And before anyone wants to call me racist for that I was literally told by two separate medical commands that white guys don't get shaving profiles.)

Now for the "reasons" Soldiers can't have a beard:

1) Can't seal a promask. FALSE. Sikhs are allowed beards, and one of the requirements is that they demonstrate their ability to properly seal their mask.

2) Unprofessional. Abraham Lincoln, GEN Ambrose Burnsides, GEN Ulysses S. Grant, and GEN Robert E. Lee all beg to differ.

2a) But those guys are all civil war era. Fine. Steve Jobs and Paul Ryan disagree.

2b) Even then, a well groomed beard looks far more professional (in my opinion) than the basic training cueball haircut. And really when we are talking about professional APPEARANCE, all we are talking about is opinion. What the powerful THINK looks professional / unprofessional.

3) Uniformity. Really? How many female hairstyles are authorized? Hell, how many MALE hairstyles are authorized? How many different tattoos in how many different locations? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

4) Grooming (cleanliness, lice, etc.). Commanders at all levels have authority to place restrictions based on mission requirements. If in an environment where this would be a serious consideration, Commanders could and should make that call for their mission and their Soldiers.

So now that those myths have been dispensed, why is it Soldiers can't have beards? All I see left is "because I (the Army) said so." Which, admittedly is a legally sound reason, and the only reason that HAS to be given. But it is neither logically sound nor satisfying.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 19 at 2018 5:25 AM

Jerry Rivas — Sun, 19 Aug 2018 05:25:21 -0400

I kept calling a female officer sir one time....She yelled at me that she was not a sir, she was a ma'am. I said, I'm sorry.....The mustache confused me.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2018 6:17 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Aug 2018 18:17:02 -0400

I think if you are a General you should HAVE to grow a beard.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Aug 24 at 2018 5:48 AM

Jerry Rivas — Fri, 24 Aug 2018 05:48:15 -0400

Lack of testosterone?

Response by SGT Gregory Reilly made Sep 1 at 2018 10:51 PM

SGT Gregory Reilly — Sat, 01 Sep 2018 22:51:12 -0400

I'm going to be the bad guy here. Why are you in an organization that has hundreds of years of tradition and all you care about is trying to change it. Suck it up cupcake and carry on. Years ago there was a saying in the military that we used to live by. Yours is not to question why but to shut the f--k up and comply. Let it go and try moving on to the being a truly professional soldier.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2018 4:01 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Sep 2018 16:01:41 -0400

As far as I am aware all services have the same standards for entry and none of what you said except for the tattoos are actually waivers that are allowed by any service today. That being said there are still groups of assholes that allow race, religion, and political asshats to be promoted and even receive special rewards like: Command Advancement as well as recommendations for military award or ribbon. This is not the fault of the service but rather the Commisioned Officers(spoken CO’s) that stand blind to do their job and actually review evaluations and their crew/soldiers/airmen/marines.

Beards were banned in the mid 80’s if I remember the time frame for my father bitching about losing his beard as a Corpsman in a hospital. So the beard ban was enacted to prevent the problem of having men getting facial hair stuck in machinery and equipment that at the time was unsafe almost always regardless of who operated it.
To answer your question yes, I believe this to be an outdated policy. Equipment is safer than ever, not allowing for some of the bottom feeders that slip through MEPS and Basic Raining. However, this will never change so long as each service is so top heavy with O-5 and above sitting in offices for 15-20 years collecting checks for admin work an E-1 could do with no staff and likely less errors.

Bureaucracy is the poison of today’s military.

Response by LTC Jim Singer made Sep 15 at 2018 9:56 PM

LTC Jim Singer — Sat, 15 Sep 2018 21:56:12 -0400

I take it you will never operate in a CBR environment. Gas Mask will not seal correctly if you have a beard.

Response by PO2 Vince Walsh made Sep 17 at 2018 4:33 PM

PO2 Vince Walsh — Mon, 17 Sep 2018 16:33:37 -0400

Give it a few years. Before long you'll be able to guard the tomb of the Unknown Soldier in a pink ballerina costume, with a beard like zz-top. I have a great idea. Let's get a bunch of gender confused, middle aged women and put them in charge. Then when a candyass starts to cry about "fairness" and other irrelevant gibberish we'll be able to direct them to the Master Chief mommy/Sgt Maj mommy as needed.i hate to say it, but if we're not already doomed, we are very close.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2018 6:21 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:21:17 -0400

For me it's genetics.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Oct 7 at 2018 6:46 AM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Sun, 07 Oct 2018 06:46:27 -0400

Well SPC Vove, the US ARMY isn't one of those other countries that allows beards. For one thing you pointed out, they don't interfer with gas masks. But they do. Try getting a proper seal with a beard. Now walk around on a summer day, with temps in the 80s or 90 plus in desert enviroments. You'll wish you hadn't. Again go around for a week or two without a shower and your beard will not only be sweatty, but ripe with stink. Once the US ARMY lets its troops wear beards, people will bitch about grooming standards. I remember when the US NAVY let its sailors grow beards. They were all happy about being allowed to do that. Then some sailors went hog wild with growing contests and letting standards faĺl. The CNO who gave them a chance to look like pirates retired and the new CNO had every beard shaved off completely. Now, the US ARMY has allowed one individual enlist and his religion (shik) forbades him from cutting his hair or shaving his beard off. He also gets to wear a turban, which is also part of his faith. It's ARMY OCP by now. Having a beard doesn't make you unprofessional, but it goes against grooming standards and will certainly lead to other concerns while you're in the US ARMY. Meanwhile, let other countries do what they do and remember, you're in the US ARMY.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 17 at 2018 9:44 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Oct 2018 21:44:58 -0400

Everybody likes to present a professional appearance for the public; even Corporate America has grooming standards so that they can present the best image possible.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2018 4:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 16:53:08 -0400

Ever tried getting a decent seal on a gas mask with a beard?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2018 8:31 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Oct 2018 08:31:38 -0400

Wait wtf does full sleeve tattoos gave to do with professionalism?

Response by HN Gary Walker made Oct 30 at 2018 2:40 AM

HN Gary Walker — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 02:40:57 -0400

Of course, uniformity is involved and because another countries army marches off a bridge I guess you want to also! Sorry, could not resist. LOL, I think sanitation is part of it also the gas mask issues. Styles change and someday beards might come back. I have a beard now but I think being clean-shaven in uniform maybe boring to some but I think it shows respect to self and others that your cleaned and groomed. God am I just getting old??? Go Navy Devil Doc's!

Response by SGT Kenneth Stelly made Oct 30 at 2018 5:09 AM

SGT Kenneth Stelly — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 05:09:36 -0400

Same reason Hitler had the funny mustache, to be able to don the protective mask...

Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Oct 30 at 2018 10:43 PM

SPC Stephen Walsh — Tue, 30 Oct 2018 22:43:27 -0400

Met a Female Spanish Legion Officer who had some shrapnel cut's on her cheek and throat. When asked if she required medical assistance. She replied she cut herself worse shaving. Then laughed .

Response by SFC Eric Bralley made Nov 12 at 2018 7:26 PM

SFC Eric Bralley — Mon, 12 Nov 2018 19:26:34 -0500

Because your moostach is out of regalation. Godfather says it's gotta go.

Response by SFC Joseph Madison made Nov 13 at 2018 7:47 PM

SFC Joseph Madison — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 19:47:14 -0500

it originated at a way to manage pests (lice, mites, fleas, etc...) in the early days, then became a matter of appearance, and then we made chem masks that need clean skin to seal. The truth is that it is an outdated rule for GARRISON, and until we use chem equipment that doesn't require a beard-free face, we as an armed force will still have to shave on deployments, in the field, and even for field training.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Nov 19 at 2018 2:05 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 14:05:43 -0500

Because. Just because. Get used to it. Because.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Nov 19 at 2018 5:43 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 17:43:50 -0500

Actually some of the issues you have raised have limited basis in fact. In regard to facial hair, there are restrictions on what is allowed for religious reasons, also for a few MOSes, facial hair is a nonstarter. Limited specific groups within the force however may be granted exception to grooming policy based upon mission. // On the full sleeve tattoos, there are only a few exemptions in the allowance by policy, and they are not to show beyond the cuff while in class A uniform. Some soldiers are grandfathered as they had the ink before there was increased scrutiny. // Weight Control is an issue within the service agreed, however, policies in place are detrimental to the overweight, and thus they either meet standard, or can face separation. // As for criminal history, those are not felony crimes, and the soldiers are subjected to tighter scrutiny before entry. Yes, some standards were relaxed at the height of the Iraq War, but those who were allowed to enlist had to meet specific criteria. // As for psychotics, mental health issues are not taken lightly, due to op tempo, mental health is a challenge for the entire force, and DoD is studying ways to assist soldiers with mental health issues. // Over the years, nay decades, other soldiers have voiced complaints in regards to policies. I like many of my era of service pushed back against some policies, hair length being the most common for men. But after extended time in field environments with poor sanitation facilities, you understand why hair is short, if beards are grown, they are trimmed close, and clean shaven is maintained when practical. Unless, you enjoy the company of lice, parasites, and the health issues they can cause as well. Personal grooming is needed. So feel free to vent here, but suck it up, and drive on. If you stay in service, you may possibly again a position where you will have greater input on policies. Then go for it. But don't make broad comparisons with foreign militaries, what may seem as easier treatment for them may also entail some trade offs you won't enjoy.

Response by PO1 Jeff Mohler made Nov 20 at 2018 12:32 AM

PO1 Jeff Mohler — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 00:32:13 -0500

The original reason given for the ban on beards way back in '85 was that beards interfered with getting a proper seal on gas masks and fire fighting breathing apparatus. But truth be told, there were a lot of guys pushing the envelope on standards and it was a pain in the ass to police.

Response by MAJ Bob Firth made Nov 20 at 2018 1:22 PM

MAJ Bob Firth — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 13:22:32 -0500

Beards have not been proven to be detrimental to performance. Since we already give waivers for religion, and spec ops forces sport beards when deployed, what is the point in prphibiting them?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 11:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:21:37 -0500

To say that SF is allowed to wear a beard because it helps them to blend in is a huge falesy. Never in my 4 tours to Iraq have I seen a pale skinned local with a red beard or a blonde beard or a black man local with a beard.

Response by SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET) made Nov 21 at 2018 2:19 PM

SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET) — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 14:19:29 -0500

The whole purpose of military appearance is to set yourself apart from the rest of society in terms of bearing and discipline. No beards. Those are my thoughts.

Response by SPC Colin Jenks made Nov 21 at 2018 6:07 PM

SPC Colin Jenks — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 18:07:41 -0500

Personally I think it looks a lot more professional to shave. I see some foreign soldiers and they don't look nearly as professional. We have the best military best military in the world I can care less what grooming standards other nations use. They look up to us in terms of our professionalism and conduct. I've heard from Australian special forces how they perfered working with American assets over their own, so it says a lot. Shaving is just one part of the puzzle that makes us look the part of a professional military.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Nov 21 at 2018 7:28 PM

SFC Don Ward — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 19:28:04 -0500

Two comments - Sikhs, and now Moslems get exceptions.

Response by SrA John Monette made Nov 21 at 2018 7:37 PM

SrA John Monette — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 19:37:11 -0500

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member if you are that down on the US military, specifically the Army, then clearly you are in the wrong profession. professionalism is paramount to the military. if that includes not allowing beards, then so be it. you either deal with it and soldier on, or you get out. of course, if you are that concerned about being able to have a beard, you can always join a religion (Muslim comes to mind) and apply for a shaving waiver based on your religion.

Response by Brad Powers made Nov 21 at 2018 11:02 PM

Brad Powers — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 23:02:52 -0500

That's an easy one because I beard with no degree with a gas mask or any breathing apparatus especially in the event of a chemical attack or biological

Response by Brad Powers made Nov 21 at 2018 11:05 PM

Brad Powers — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 23:05:31 -0500

Excuse me I meant to say that a beard or any facial hair Beyond a mustache or slight Soul stash, would certainly render any breathing apparatus such as a gas mask ineffective.

Response by Brad Powers made Nov 21 at 2018 11:20 PM

Brad Powers — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 23:20:38 -0500

I am sure everybody knows the answer to that question since the U.S. Military must be ready at all times to encounter the enemy and it's attacks of any nature with better than average odds of survival. Is it necessary to have a beard?

Response by PO1 Tom Renoe made Nov 22 at 2018 9:26 AM

PO1 Tom Renoe — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 09:26:57 -0500

If you have a beard how could we know who is a SEAL or Special Forces operator?

Response by COL William Oseles made Nov 22 at 2018 9:50 PM

COL William Oseles — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 21:50:13 -0500

Since the army allows religious exemptions for beards there is no reason not to allow beards. Obviously grooming standards are 'flexible'.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2018 6:08 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 18:08:42 -0500

Who allowed this snowflake into the military? Grow the hell up Specialist.

Response by MAJ Jon Crews made Nov 24 at 2018 5:17 PM

MAJ Jon Crews — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 17:17:06 -0500

I think it has more to do with Low-T perfume princes as Hackworth would say.

Response by MAJ Jon Crews made Nov 24 at 2018 5:22 PM

MAJ Jon Crews — Sat, 24 Nov 2018 17:22:25 -0500

Also notice those getting the job done outside the wire almost always had reduced grooming standards.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2018 4:33 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 16:33:31 -0500

I have always been able to make a deal with my mask and it has remained neatly trimmed between 1/8” and 1/4”. I am now a 1SG and it has not interfeared with my authority or discipline of my company. The only noticeable issue is when another senior NCO or random MAJ starts to freak out. I’ve been on 4 deployments multiple JRTC and NTC rotations and it seems to only be an issue for people that don’t understand the profile. There is comments like “my commander would never allow that”, like it’s a choice. My favorite trick was when I was a Ssg, we were training with brits, Germans, and French in Normandy and three SMGs would take turns finding every senior NCO in northern framce to stop me and ask for my shaving profile. The Germans thought it was unprofessional, and the brits were placing bets on how many times I would get asked. I believe if the beard would be a common thin then we would have to deal with the maturity levels of our seniors.

Response by SGT Floyd Bollinger made Nov 25 at 2018 6:50 PM

SGT Floyd Bollinger — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 18:50:50 -0500

All you will get is because I said so. Lincoln, Grant, Lee, and many others had beards. The Army is to worried about what you look like , than winning wars.

Response by SFC Leo Mares made Nov 25 at 2018 6:59 PM

SFC Leo Mares — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 18:59:56 -0500

I really don't think so not only the gas mask but it would be a health problem in some areas of service or long operations

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2018 7:51 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 19:51:13 -0500

Anyone that thinks looking good to the public is more important than your ability to kill the enemy is a cuck. Guess what ladies, MEN grow facial hair and MEN win wars.

Response by MSgt Gerald Orvis made Nov 25 at 2018 8:31 PM

MSgt Gerald Orvis — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 20:31:10 -0500

In my observation, facial hair/long hair is simply a phenomenon of current social practices. In the 18th century, soldiers were clean-shaven because society at large viewed men with facial as barbaric (except for German grenadiers, who had moustaches). In the mid-19th century, beards and amazing lamb-chop sideburns were popular in society, and they were also popular in the military. There were no grooming regulations in the Marine Corps (don't know about the Army or Navy), and whether a Marine had a moustache or beard depended on his commanding officer. At the beginning of the 20th c., short hair and clean shaving was the norm, and the military has followed that method ever since. In the 1980's (my first brush at serving with the Navy), naval officers and sailors could have beards, but once permission had been asked to have one and the ID card picture taken, they could not shave it off without permission. When the Navy directive came that abolished beards, we had a Navy LT who had a great beard - salt-and-pepper, and on the day he had to shave his beard off, he WAS NOT HAPPY - he looked like a wet monkey without his beard. Perhaps someday the military will allow beards to make a comeback - moustaches are already allowed, and operational exceptions (submarines, battlefield operators) happen. So maybe beards will be allowed for the general rank and file at some point.

Response by Cpl Donald Hipp Sr made Nov 25 at 2018 9:42 PM

Cpl Donald Hipp Sr — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 21:42:01 -0500

Can't put a gas mask over a beard.

Response by PFC Ian DeGraff made Nov 26 at 2018 2:07 AM

PFC Ian DeGraff — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:07:52 -0500

It is to ensure a proper seal on a pro-mask, or other breathing apparatus, pure and simple. This rule doesn't apply just to the military, but the civilian side as well. Ever seen a civilian airline pilot with a full beard? No. Why? Because it interferes with the fit of an oxygen mask. One guy I worked with took a job in the oil and gas industry down in Texas. As part of the hiring process, he had to shave his full, lush beard off. Why? So they could fit him with the proper size oxygen mask. Ever seen a firefighter with a beard? No, and for the same reason. Hell, the job I have now I have to be clean-shaven because the machine I run produces an OSHA-unacceptable amount of silica in the air, hence I get to wear an N95 respirator all day while running it. One day I got to wear that AND a silica-monitoring device to test out a new ventilation system.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 2:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 02:58:22 -0500

Here's my take: the army has never allowed severe criminal history or drug abuse problems among the ranks. I know, I just recently discharged on of my own for 2 hot UPL's within 1 year of entry. Second, what is a beard going to gain for you in uniform? Will you look cooler or more "bada**" among your joes? What's the practical reasoning? Will you be able to seal a pro-mask of you ever come in contact with CBRN? Will your ACH be secure enough in vehicle rollover, or in an enemy engagement? Will it ever become a snag obstacle in tight confinement? These are the real questions you should be asking yourself. Most younger/non-deployed soldiers want to worry about what makes them more stand out against the older/hardened joes. Truth is nothing will bridge that gap except training and cohesion. Don't worry about how you look, and worry more about how your body will benefit you under fire

Response by SPC Matthew Rouse made Nov 26 at 2018 8:09 AM

SPC Matthew Rouse — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 08:09:20 -0500

hmm the Sikhs and the pagans are allowed to have beards.. just gotta keep them trimmed .. and ya its a recent thing. last 5-6 years or so.. made me go hmm when I read about it

Response by LCDR Jeff Davis made Nov 26 at 2018 10:35 AM

LCDR Jeff Davis — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 10:35:59 -0500

We were encouraged to grow a beard, being attached to SF in Afghanistan. The hodgies respected "the old ones", and knew if they fired rockets or mortars at us, we'd be all over them ASAP.

Response by 1SG Darrell Walker made Nov 26 at 2018 12:44 PM

1SG Darrell Walker — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:44:55 -0500

Only about 8 guys in the Army could pull off a mustache under its grooming standard without looking like Hitler. Now they want beards?

Response by SSG Joseph VanDyck made Nov 26 at 2018 12:47 PM

SSG Joseph VanDyck — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:47:12 -0500

Beards went out of favor with WW1 and the advent of gas masks. Now a days, the mask seals are much better at sealing with facial hair. Now as far as growing a beard, either go Spec Ops and grow one while deployed or get out completely. Those are your choices.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 1:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 13:09:40 -0500

Yeah beard or beard, I could give a fuck less. What I do care about is the army actually fixing my track, or my equipment not being outdated.

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 4:20 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 16:20:47 -0500

Cant grow beards because it looks unprofessional - gives dudes religious headwear and allows beards.
Cant grow beards because effects mask seal - okay then dont wear a beard in deployed environment.

Come on yall theres literally no reason a dude on bragg cant grow out his whiskers hell even the canadians can now.

Response by PO2 Thomas Standring made Nov 26 at 2018 4:49 PM

PO2 Thomas Standring — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 16:49:11 -0500

Your gas mask won't seal properly with facial hair.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 11:36 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 23:36:59 -0500

Prior to WWI servicmen and even presidents had beards and other facial hair. That all changed with the great war. Why? Simply put, WWI saw the first use of chemical warfare and your mask won't seal correctly with facial hair. It's not about style, it's for safety you broke dick hippies.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 11:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 23:41:57 -0500

And for you people saying that I have a beard.... I've been out for 10 years. I'm allowed to be a broke dick hippie now.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 27 at 2018 6:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 06:14:38 -0500

I hear multiple reasons against, but I don't think the Army really practically considered anything other than their own reasoning against.

I have no religious exception, I don't want to look operator, and in most locations the "gas mask seal," is a kneejerk (and totally garbage) argument against wearing a beard.

All I want is to not have to shave my nearly trimmed beard for drill. A beard that I very intentionally keep neatly trimmed.

The military has been policing hair for a number of decades now, beards wouldn't be all that drastic of a change. All it would require is a little adaptation. Something of which every soldier should be capable.

Response by SPC David Giffen made Nov 29 at 2018 8:55 PM

SPC David Giffen — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 20:55:21 -0500

The reason is that you can not seal your protective mask with a beard. This the same reason that many fire departments have the same rule. That and as a firefighter you don't want fuel on your face.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 9:21 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:21:10 -0500

Beards are for pirates. We are not pirates. Professional military members are clean shaven. What else should we dispense with? Ironing uniforms? Daily bathing? Hair cuts at all? If you don't think it matters to have discipline and uniformity (which cannot be accomplished with beards) in the ranks, then there is no talking to you. Even the special forces take the beard thing too far. Do the taliban really think they cannot discern US SF from the regular Afghanis? Really? Most SF have no need for beards unless working undercover in a mostly bearded country. When operating in uniform, why they have beards escapes me. In civilian law enforcement, we always joke that identifying undercover cops was easy. Look for the guy with the beard.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2018 9:29 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 09:29:46 -0500

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2018 1:11 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Dec 2018 01:11:20 -0500

I don't really agree with the whole psychotic people being allowed in thing. I just went through MEPS a few months ago and there was a lot of people DQ for less. I also don't think it's fair to pick at people's mental health as a whole because that is a real issue in today's military. Mental Health and the stigma that goes along with it (from statements like the one in the posed question) is a big reason why some of our brothers attempt to or succeed in taking their own lives. Now, that being said, I think that a shaven face does look professional. However, a beard can be neatly kept and edged up with little effort and it would be just as professional. I the the shaven face= professionalism concept is outdated. I also don't believe that a beard would break the seal enough on a promask to render it ineffective. I think beards are more field expedient as well. If one looks mangy, that soldier could be counseled on maintaining a professional appearance. It wouldn't be a headache because solder's get counseled on literally every other minute detail there is and those are not labeled "headaches". I'm with SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member on this one. Hey why not?

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2018 12:29 AM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 00:29:04 -0500

I just read an article the other day about Sikhs are allowed to wear beards due to religious reasons. People that follow European paganism (think Norse Mythology) have now been authorized to wear beards for reigiois purposes too. So if you always wanted to look like Thor or Zeus, now you can but don't expect a cross on your headstone though! (There are ways around that too though!)
Good luck Warrior!
Until Valhalla!

Response by PFC Darrel Little made Dec 31 at 2018 8:14 AM

PFC Darrel Little — Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:14:15 -0500

If a beard I think would be ok if kept neat and stright.

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jan 4 at 2019 7:50 AM

SGT John W Lugo — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 07:50:29 -0500

With this comment, I must add that don't understand either why if you are prior military why the military doesn't allow you to re enlist because of having a controlled health issue,but yet allow criteria's that shouldn't truly be allowed such criminal background.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jan 5 at 2019 5:47 AM

SSG Dale London — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 05:47:07 -0500

I think I answered this once before but I'll do it again. The simple answer is Gas. The army changed it's regs regarding beards during the First World War when it was discovered that gas masks do not seal over beards. While it is true that presenting a soldierly appearance is important, battlefield survivability is even more so.
There are loads of arguments for and against beards -- including tradition, societal norms, etc. etc. etc. But the plain truth of it is that, unless you are subject to special regs (i.e. covert operations, shaving profile, etc), you need to keep your cheeks, neck and chin clear of hair to allow your gas mask to seal properly. That is why this reg will not change, regardless of how popular beards become.

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Jan 5 at 2019 6:21 AM

LCpl Cody Collins — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 06:21:02 -0500

The Navy already has that tradition locked down. Your more than welcome to join the Navy.

Response by Sgt William Collins made Jan 5 at 2019 9:33 AM

Sgt William Collins — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 09:33:04 -0500

Our military is more impressive when it shows signs of discipline and physical standards. A beard can be well-maintained and impressive, but to my observation, most are not, fine in a civilian, unacceptable in a serviceman. I have seen members of foreign services in beards and my impression of them has been that they are inferior to Americans. Call that prejudice if you will, but most of the world operates on prejudices. If you must have a beard, find some other way to make a living.

Response by Sgt Clyde Sinclair made Jan 5 at 2019 7:17 PM

Sgt Clyde Sinclair — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 19:17:28 -0500

I find it difficult to understand why this is even an issue, perhaps the Army is too automated now days and there's not enough K-P to keep soldiers minds occupied. Hold yourself to a higher standard, demand more from yourself. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone but you were not drafted, you volunteered.

Response by PO1 Jeffrey Pennala made Jan 11 at 2019 11:40 AM

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:40:52 -0500

What really surprises me is that most of the comments are from Army folks. When I was in the Navy beards were allowed it wasn't until the late 1980's they got rid of them. It was totally a political decision so someone in the upper brass and add some additional useless paper to their record to try and impress themselves and others. We didn't look like rabble, the beards I saw were always neat and well groomed and added to the esprit de corps. It was something that made the Navy standout from the other services. I saved a lot of money on razor blades for a while.

Response by SGT Donald Croswhite made Jan 15 at 2019 4:53 PM

SGT Donald Croswhite — Tue, 15 Jan 2019 16:53:44 -0500

For the same reason you can't walk on the grass, because they fucking said so.

Response by SGT George Duncan made Jan 20 at 2019 6:25 PM

SGT George Duncan — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 18:25:08 -0500

because the generals' wife does not like it

Response by PO3 Peter Christman made Feb 4 at 2019 5:52 PM

PO3 Peter Christman — Mon, 04 Feb 2019 17:52:24 -0500

I thought the military was very picky these days. Dont know about the Army, but in the navy,on board ship. You better be clean shaven enough to make a great air tight seal for your fire fighting SCBA,or your going to be breathing in alot of toxic smoke. And i hope your NBC mask is nice and air tight also. Id hate to hear about any of my fellow brothers and sisters getting a lungs worth of mustard gas.

Response by CW2 Michael Mullikin made Feb 18 at 2019 2:18 AM

CW2 Michael Mullikin — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:18:34 -0500

The reason the Army doesn't allow beards is that they prevent the protective mask from properly sealing. Think that's bogus? The reason Hitler wore that little clipped mustache was because in WW I he wore a handle-bar mustache like many others on both sides. When his unit was attacked with a chemical agent he tried to don his protective mask. Because of his mustache the mask couldn't be properly sealed, as a result he spent months in hospital while doctors tried to save his lungs. He clipped his mustache so he would never have the problem again; he kept it clipped as a reminder of what he had gone through.

Response by SSG Eric Cooper made Mar 1 at 2019 2:25 AM

SSG Eric Cooper — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:25:10 -0500

I don't see a reason not too as long as it's kept in a neat appearance and doesn't hinder the NBC mask.

Response by PO1 Don Mac Intyre made Mar 9 at 2019 9:46 PM

PO1 Don Mac Intyre — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 21:46:42 -0500

Making the statement that "other nations allow it" does nothing for your argument. In fact it reeks of "Johnny jumps off the bridge, I must do so as well"!
Grooming standards are grooming standards. You signed the paper, you volunteered, you follow the standards. That's it.
I served when facial hair was allowed in the sea going services, then it wasn't. Guess what? I shaved. I didn't really like it, but the alternative was not acceptable to me.
Bottom line, you cannot have a beard because it isn't allowed.

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made Mar 10 at 2019 11:21 PM

SPC Daniel Rankin — Sun, 10 Mar 2019 23:21:23 -0400

Beards cause many problems in the health department. Clean appearance, taking care of a beard takes more time than keeping a shaved face, I know I now have a beard and it takes more to keep it looking nice.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Mar 18 at 2019 12:50 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Mon, 18 Mar 2019 00:50:23 -0400

Regs....thats why....

Response by Maj John Bell made Apr 2 at 2019 3:10 AM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 02 Apr 2019 03:10:51 -0400

Just to be a bit of a smart ass... Have you seen the raggedy, scraggly beards most males have until they hit their mid 20's or later? About half the first term enlistees and Lieutenants would need face wigs.

Response by PO2 David Ball made Apr 4 at 2019 9:11 PM

PO2 David Ball — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 21:11:13 -0400

Oh really??? Hell Cpl. even our civilian Work Place Saftey Group AKA OSHA is death on using a respirator with a beard IE if you wear a beard that inhibits a good seal your dead!!! The answer is that "other nations" do NOT fear the use of Chemical, Biological or Radiological weapons even thou that yes two out of the big three have been used!!! Iraq, Syria... Remember Uncle Sam will have to pay if you do not wear a mask correctly, directly to your parents. Because you will not survive.
Hell, Cpl just for fun how about you do the dying roach dance on the floor...

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Apr 6 at 2019 9:20 AM

CPL Steve Freeman — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 09:20:14 -0400

Your thoughts dont mean dick. You're supposed to shave every day so do it or get out. Join the Salvation Army. Or the girl scouts.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Apr 6 at 2019 4:54 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 06 Apr 2019 16:54:42 -0400

It doesn't matter. To sacrifice a beard to be part of something others are unwilling, too afraid, or incapable of doing seems a small price to pay.

Response by PO3 David Davis made Apr 7 at 2019 1:16 PM

PO3 David Davis — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 13:16:38 -0400

Beards can get in the way Emergency mask NBC attacks.

Response by PO2 Kim Manley made Apr 7 at 2019 3:39 PM

PO2 Kim Manley — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 15:39:09 -0400

Speaking only for the COAST GUARD during the 60's and 70's enlisted and officers alike were allowed beards as long as you got a 'chit' approved by your immediate command. In the northern reaches ie. Alaska, Great lakes, etc beards were encouraged as they would save your face from frostbite. I was stationed on the Mississippi after boot camp. I showed up a couple days early with about 10 days growth and was told by my chief that I could keep it if I trimmed it. I kept a full beard until I was stationed at COTP/MSO Baltimore were I wore a goatee. To get in the CG I had to get a congressional waiver because of a speeding ticket. Drugs n alcohol were forbidden as was mental irregularities. Times have changed but I hope those requirements haven't.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2019 10:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Apr 2019 22:36:51 -0400

Beards for certain reasons are allowed, but are at the discretion of the commander. Specialized units who make contact with certain groups of people are authorized to wear beards, and those soldiers have to shave once their special duty is over. Soldiers who have a medical condition are authorized by regulation to wear a beard neatly kept, and a certain length at the discretion of their commander. If the commander deems the wear of the beard a detriment to the soldiers health and welfare, or it impedes the use of life sustaining equipment the commander can require that the soldier shave. I'm sure that there are other reasons for the wear of the beard being regulated by the Army. The SMA said he did not have an issue with boards in the Army. He didn't say one way or another about pushing that to the policy makers. Personally I believe that if a soldier can't keep the standards in other areas then the beard would be too much of a distraction for that soldier. We have to be fair and equitable in making policy calls. It will be up to those who want to wear the beard to formerly request the change to the standards through proper channels just like the religious groups of soldiers got a waiver to wear certain augmentations to the uniform for religious reasons.

Response by Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2019 12:22 AM

Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 00:22:57 -0400

Dumb rule for combat !

Response by Maj Dale Smith made Apr 8 at 2019 3:30 PM

Maj Dale Smith — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:30:11 -0400

There are a myriad of reasons why you are not allowed to grow a beard. Trying to keep it clean in the field comes to mind, facial recognition in an AOR would be another. Depending on just how full your beard actually is, face furr could interfere with your spot weld on a rifle as well. If you have a facial complexion that you would like to cover with a beard, I would suggest that you consult with your military physician/flight surgeon as to whether you can medically claim that you need to have a beard. Then it would be a close cropped beard that follows your facial lines and not look like something from "Duck Dynasty".

Response by PO2 Michael Roberts made Apr 8 at 2019 3:53 PM

PO2 Michael Roberts — Mon, 08 Apr 2019 15:53:55 -0400

In the Navy, I had a beard from the time I started studying Russian at DLI until 1984 when they were banned. The reason given was that they wanted us to look "professional". I was part of the aircrew aboard P-3's and deployed with VPU-1 extensively. Beards were never a problem. Ignorant, B.S. posturing from high above was the issue. There are ZERO reasons not to have beards. Other militaries have beards, and there are no issues. Having recruiting and retention issues? Get rid of dumb rules like this and join the 21st century.

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Apr 9 at 2019 10:16 AM

SSG Ray Elliott — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 10:16:19 -0400

I was in the Navy at a time when you could grow beards. It was never an issue. If you could get a seal on a gass madk and kept the length under the standard. No problems. Can't see why they can't allow it.

Response by PVT Cyrel Moore made Apr 9 at 2019 11:18 AM

PVT Cyrel Moore — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 11:18:21 -0400

A Gas mask wont seal with a beard. I would not want to take the chance with some of the nerve agents available today. Just my 2 cents worth.

Response by MSgt Joseph Holness made Apr 9 at 2019 1:30 PM

MSgt Joseph Holness — Tue, 09 Apr 2019 13:30:58 -0400

Let's face it; this country has become a JOKE not only to those of us who have served / are from this country but to the World as well. I have a personal friend of mine that lives in Europe who is former Spetznaz, who just can't believe how "Weird & Depraved" the US has become. "Diversity-Multiculturalism & Political Correctness" have destroyed this nation! As far as the Beard & Tattoo Question goes, the only people in the US Military that get a "free-pass" to wear them are muslims, blacks and tribal types. The rest of us Caucasian and Asian Americans can't!

Response by SGT Nickolas Ortiz made Apr 11 at 2019 8:41 PM

SGT Nickolas Ortiz — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 20:41:00 -0400

You can grow a beard, any time you want. Just leave the Military... problem solved. Remember: YOU volunteered to serve your Country, you're not a conscript or draftee. If the make-it-or-break-it for you is something silly as a beard, then don't re-enlist. Service to your Nation isn't for you...

Response by PO2 Michael Edgar made Apr 12 at 2019 3:01 PM

PO2 Michael Edgar — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:01:36 -0400

Does anyone in senior leadership (flag officer) really stop to consider how many good people simply pass on the military because of "standards" that don't seem to do anything of use.
It's nice seeing the O3s-O6s here putting forth valid reasons to both keep and revise/remove the standards, but it's disheartening to see all the enlisted leaders blindly parrot the standards because "it's professional" and "because I said so/it's always been this way"

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Apr 14 at 2019 10:27 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 10:27:35 -0400

Bugs except if you are a ranger or CIA.

Response by 1SG James Matthews made Apr 14 at 2019 8:27 PM

1SG James Matthews — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:27:01 -0400

Join SF--go into combat areas--live off the grid and on Special Ops. You can grow a beard to fit in.

Response by CSM William Payne made Apr 14 at 2019 8:39 PM

CSM William Payne — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 20:39:15 -0400

Discipline, hygiene, professionalism, uniformity and standards. We are the Army.

I always love it when Soldiers post pictures of Civil War Generals with beards and ask why not? Custer had shoulder length hair, why not? What they don’t tell you that the Civil War had more deaths than any other conflict of American Soldiers. And that the majority of deaths during the Civil War came not from battlefield wounds; musket, rifle or cannon fire, swords or sabres, but from disease. We knew about as much about hygiene at the beginning of the Civil War as they did during the American Revolution, but the weaponry had advanced considerably. Infections, typhoid, diarrhea and dysentery were the major killers. For every Soldier that died on the battlefield, two died of disease. That’s the reason we started giving recruits buzz cuts when they entered basic training, head lice among other maladies. Not for looks but we did literally did it for your health.

Add that to the fact not everyone can grow a righteous beard. Even Gerard Butler’s beard in the 300 was artificially enhanced. So you have a few Soldiers rocking the Special Operator look, the others look more like Shaggy from Scooby-Doo, in other words, like crap. No amount of steroids will make it look any better. It’s just an excuse for a Soldier to roll out of the bunk in the morning, be lazy, show up for formations looking like they just came off a two day drunk, and tell the First Sergeant, hey Top, I’m growing a beard! And you can’t discriminate, if these Soldiers get to grow a beard (as in not shave), then so do those Soldiers.

By the way, the military has always been about being professional. The concessions you touch on above come about when standards have to be lowered due to periods of high tempo, low recruitment. No senior leaders I ever worked with or for ever voted for these exemptions frivolously or without lots of discussions and great debate. And I was involved in a few. In a perfect word we would always make the recruits adopt to our standards and not the other way around. The Navy tried this facial hair experiment during the Vietnam Era, then decide to end the experiment.

It’s in this vein that I admire the Marines. When they say; The Few and the Proud, they really mean it. The Marines bring in just over 30,000 new assessments ever year. The Army on the other hand, needs at least 90,000 to break even. All of the services combined lose between 125 - 145,000 members to retirement or just leaving the service. So the Marines have higher recruiting standards and can afford to instill more discipline during Boot Camp. I’ve never seen a post from a Marine asking why they can’t put their hands in their pockets or grow beards . . . . Just saying.

Response by SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass made Apr 14 at 2019 9:24 PM

SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 21:24:30 -0400

Try to seal a gas mask over one.

Response by SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass made Apr 14 at 2019 9:25 PM

SSgt William (Bill) Pangrass — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 21:25:09 -0400

Try to seal a gas mask with a beard.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Apr 15 at 2019 7:20 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 19:20:42 -0400

With this attitude don't expect to move up the promotion ladder any time soon.
I cannot comment on the tattoo sit. in the Army these days, but I can assure you that the criminal history and substance abuse problems are miniscule compared to the mid to late 70's. I know first hand of one event where the entire bridge and engine room watch was stoned to the gills in the middle of the Indian Ocean. I'm talking from the messenger of the watch to the officers in charge. In those days it wasn't 'cool' to serve, and the military had to make use of what they could get.
As far as beards in the Navy went, you simply had to file a request chit to grow a beard. You were given 30 days to prove you could grow a decent beard. No scraggly or patchy beards allowed. As a precaution for NBC warfare I kept a large jar of Vaseline in my gas mask bag. When they called for a mask, it only took a second to slather my beard to ensure the mask sealed properly. I do, however know of two separate incidents where sailors got their beards caught in machinery and suffered severe injuries as a result (even though we kept our beards facial conforming ie - short). Aside from that, beards for soldiers would seem to me to be a bad idea for the following reasons (in general). Hand to hand fighting - even a short beard can make a wonderful 'handle' for your opponent. Field hygiene - beards make a great perspiration and 'critter' trap, not to mention some of the messier MRE bits and pieces.
Then there's the issue of dealing with the grooming standards of the more "sensitive" types who seem to think the regs aren't for them. NCO's have more important things to do than to be 'shaving police'.
Lastly we come to professionalism. All countries have exemplary military professionals to some degree or another. Few have a higher percentage of members in that category than the United States. The ones that do are usually smaller countries with long histories of martial excellence. The Gurkhas are one example that comes to mind readily. I don't see where the presence or absence of a beard has any effect on professionalism. That's a state of mind that affects behavior more than appearance. As a Corporal, you're just beginning your military career. I hardly think you're an expert on professionalism yet. I'm not slamming you, I'm making an observation. At the age of 62 I look back at many of my 'oh-so-certain-I'm-right' beliefs and I realize just how far off base I was.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Apr 18 at 2019 1:20 PM

CPT Lawrence Cichelli — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 13:20:57 -0400

The main reason for the beard regulation is that it is difficult or impossible to seal a protective mask when sporting a beard. VX, GB & GD nerve agents would ruin your day. The beard can interfere with the seal of the mask.

Response by CPT Eireanne Russ made Apr 24 at 2019 2:44 AM

CPT Eireanne Russ — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 02:44:29 -0400

First thing that comes to mind is the protective mask issue. I worked in a nuclear power plant for a year and they were allowed to have beards but had to slick them down with Vaseline so thee half face and full face masks would seal properly. Second is that the Dutch Army had beards in 1983 and they looked like poor lost hippies. Third is that clean shaven is an easy standard to manage, just like the venerable high and tight

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2019 7:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 19:15:33 -0400

Regulations will tell you it’s because of the seal on your protective mask. But as you have already stated, that’s really not the issue.

Bottom line, it’s not liked. Until someone in position to change the regulations is there advocating for beards, it’s not a subject officers are going to discuss. It’s clearly not about looking professional as we have numerous service members of all ethnicities getting shaving profiles, waivers and religious exemptions. So it just comes down to it not being liked at the highest levels.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made May 1 at 2019 11:03 PM

SPC Byron Skinner — Wed, 01 May 2019 23:03:52 -0400

SP4 Byron Skinner…Well your obviously not in the SEALS or Special Operations. In many Infantry Companies or Cavalry Troops Mustaches and small beards are not seen by officers. With the hooded chemical protection mask the gas mask story became a joke. Funnier yet Gas Masks and mess kits usually ended up in the same place any way. Tattoos had always become a matter of unit policy at the Battalion level. Has any body seem MSMC General James Mattis right arm???

Response by Lt Col Rank Badjin made May 2 at 2019 3:47 PM

Lt Col Rank Badjin — Thu, 02 May 2019 15:47:39 -0400

You need to distinguish between what the Army allows and what the Army is TOLD they will allow. While many of the things you listed do, in fact, occur, that does not mean that the Army has a policy of condoning them, quite the opposite. There is also a distinct difference between "looking professional" and being professional.

Just an FYI...using a gas mask with a beard is a recipe for failure.

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made May 5 at 2019 12:17 AM

SGT Juan Robledo — Sun, 05 May 2019 00:17:33 -0400

Why would anyone want to wear a beard, you might it makes you feel cool, kind of macho, but in the event you need to put on a gas mask then your SOL, I wear one now but I'm not in the Army but a proud military veteran

Response by SPC Steve Mason made May 12 at 2019 12:58 AM

SPC Steve Mason — Sun, 12 May 2019 00:58:43 -0400

Well let's see. I have been out for a while, but I believe if you go get a Ranger tab and some Airborne wings and a nice cushy special operations billet, they will probably send you over to the desert and let you grow a beard. /tongue removed from cheek.

Response by PO1 Todd B. made May 12 at 2019 6:02 PM

PO1 Todd B. — Sun, 12 May 2019 18:02:26 -0400

One reason: Gas masks

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made May 19 at 2019 9:39 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Sun, 19 May 2019 21:39:36 -0400

Unfortunately uniform standards are being relaxed in a number of uniformed professions( Police, Security, Fire) and beards are being allowed further eroding uniform standards, this is a mistake as its difficult to maintain the standards associated with a "well groomed beard" in addition uniformed professionalism and image will be negatively impacted, the beard issue was discussed at my organization over the years and the "no beard standard" was maintained as controlling a "beard grooming standard" is a challenge and you will have some guys running around looking like Santa Claus!! In my opinion beards should not be allowed in the US military ( excluding spec ops) uniformed professionalism and image should be maintained.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 11:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 May 2019 23:45:55 -0400

One big reason (the only legit reason) is that they can be grabbed and held when in hand to hand combat. That's why cops don't usually have them.

Response by Sgt Anthony Leverington made May 28 at 2019 11:22 AM

Sgt Anthony Leverington — Tue, 28 May 2019 11:22:20 -0400

If you want to grow a beard, join a special unit. I met an Army DEA unit on TDY once and the whole unit had beards and long hair but, that was because of "where" they were stationed and they had to be able to blend in with the local population to do their job effectively.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jun 15 at 2019 9:53 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:53:02 -0400

LOL @ Psychotic people. Your aware that "psychotic people" slip past the MEPS and inprocessing screening and it is very difficult at times to weed them out. So I would not say that suddenly they are "allowed" in the military......they have always been cases where they slip past. When I was in the beard prevented a seal with the NBC mask and that is why they were forbidden back then. I have no idea why they are banned now.

Response by SPC Michael Lyon made Jun 16 at 2019 6:26 PM

SPC Michael Lyon — Sun, 16 Jun 2019 18:26:35 -0400

Basically it comes down appearance and discipline. Back in the day it was a dog and pony show. Appearances were everything.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jun 22 at 2019 11:45 AM

SSG Dale London — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:45:09 -0400

I answered this quite a while ago but I think my answer bears repeating: gas masks.
Soldiers were allowed beards up to our involvement in WWI -- when it was discovered that a beards and long moustaches prevented a proper seal with a gas mask. I don't rememember exactly how it played out but it made its way into uniform regulations at that time and it has been there ever since. A well trimmed moustache is acceptable but it has to comply with strict guidelines so that it does not interfere with the proper functioning of the mask. Beards, on the other hand, cannot be trimmed so that they don't impede a seal. They are, therefore, verboten.
Exceptions to this regulation exist for soldiers in covert status, i.e. special ops, counter intel, CID, etc. Other than that -- you need to be clean shaven if on duty.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jun 22 at 2019 3:24 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:24:26 -0400

Gas masks don't seal with a beard in the way

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2019 3:17 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:17:19 -0400

I believe it probably has something to do with personal hygiene, the same reason for very short hair. Easier to maintain in a field environment and less chance of getting any unwanted critters.

Response by PFC Brian Hoyt made Jun 28 at 2019 7:31 PM

PFC Brian Hoyt — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:31:13 -0400

I close trimmed beard and/or mustache should be allowed on men.
Back in the 1950's and early 60's, I remember white males were not allowed a mustache but blacks could have one. I never though that was fair. If a female has a "mustache" she can have electronics or laser it and it will not come back. Simple...! All the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have beards. When they return stateside they have to shave them off...! The military is still fxxxed-up in many ways. Really too bad...!

Response by SPC Dennis Bollin made Jul 6 at 2019 1:36 PM

SPC Dennis Bollin — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 13:36:06 -0400

Beards are not a hindrance and should be allowed

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jul 7 at 2019 12:33 AM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Sun, 07 Jul 2019 00:33:06 -0400

essentially, try growing a fucking beard and strapping up your headgear. strap up that gas mask and see what happens. everyone doesn't grow facial hair the same lengths, etc and when dudes go grey, are they supposed to die it? That's why... nothing more nothing less

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Jul 15 at 2019 3:26 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 03:26:06 -0400

I shave every two days except when I go to Nana

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Jul 15 at 2019 9:00 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Mon, 15 Jul 2019 09:00:40 -0400

The Army does issue waivers to wear a beard, because of health or religious reasons, but length and style are regulated. If you can, try this experiment. Grow a full length beard and then enter a gas chamber. Then try to seal your protective mask. Bet you can't. Also, see how much longer it takes you to clear the CS from your beard than the soldiers who do not have a beard. Now imagine if the chemical was a lethal agent. How long would you survive w/ your beard? A bit of history here: The Greeks if antiquity shaved, because they found that your opponent can grab your beard and put you at a decided disadvantage.

Response by PO2 Matt Waters made Aug 1 at 2019 6:07 AM

PO2 Matt Waters — Thu, 01 Aug 2019 06:07:39 -0400

I was in the Navy back when they still allowed mustache and beards, and saw the transition in the regs that no longer allowed them (pic is from 84 off the coast of Beirut when the Cowboys cheerleaders were onboard for USO). Their main concern was in an NBC environment and the facial hair causing a problem with a seal on the mask and or the beard possibly acting like container or sponge and collecting materials in the initial exposure before the mask was applied. Yeah there were some unhappy squids at having to shave, but safety and serviceability first.

Now today we see Spec OPs operating in the field with beards, but I think their command feels their ability to blend in outweighs the risk of an NBC attack in their current mission.

Response by SFC Tom Crenshaw made Aug 4 at 2019 1:44 PM

SFC Tom Crenshaw — Sun, 04 Aug 2019 13:44:33 -0400

" GAS" GAS" GAS" get it yet? That's why.

Response by PO1 Frank Reiffenstein made Aug 7 at 2019 7:07 PM

PO1 Frank Reiffenstein — Wed, 07 Aug 2019 19:07:03 -0400

Try and get a job with LEO or fire Department and ask them if you can have a full beard. Go ahead I'll wait. Military has a uniform code. Don't like it don't sign up. Plain and simple.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2019 9:33 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 09:33:41 -0400

Go join another army if you don't like our Army's rules. I'm growing tired of whining youngsters. If the Army can't have rules, no one can.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Oct 6 at 2019 10:31 PM

SPC Ron Salsbury — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:31:53 -0400

Well CPL (P) Cody Voye, try sealing your gas mask properly with a tight fit to save your hide in a Bio-Chemical attack; then ask that question again afterward provided you have survived! :)

Response by SPC Joshua Ulch made Oct 15 at 2019 9:26 AM

SPC Joshua Ulch — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 09:26:55 -0400

If you can’t grow a beard, sounds more like a genetic problem.

As far as the military is concerned, look and dress the part.

Navy used to allow senior officers to have beards, but that was an old salior tradition.

There is no reason to have a beard. Mental and physical fitness are part of the military and people are separated if they cannot meet the standards.

Which is another point, military has standards for a reason. Discipline, honor, professionalism...

If you’re worried about your looks, perhaps you choose the wrong profession.

By the way, I have a beard by no means am I anti-facial hair.

Response by MAJ Dan Rachal made Dec 4 at 2019 9:46 PM

MAJ Dan Rachal — Wed, 04 Dec 2019 21:46:33 -0500

Depending on the type mask and how long you be wearing. I would advise you not to have a beard. Those with beards will pay the price if a bio agent is used verse CS.

Response by Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr made Dec 6 at 2019 12:44 PM

Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr — Fri, 06 Dec 2019 12:44:50 -0500

Because you'll look like the ENEMY...

Response by 2LT Gerald Dominy made Dec 26 at 2019 2:40 AM

2LT Gerald Dominy — Thu, 26 Dec 2019 02:40:10 -0500

You cannot seal a gas mask with a full beard..you must have skin contact to seal.. second..you ever learn your history..even biblical history..a long beard is simply a handle for the enemy to hold your head still long enough to cut your throat. Research it. Learn about it..or else you will be a ignorant statistic with a DOA / KIA tag on your toe..we cant file a article 15 for destruction of government property after your dead..

Response by SGT John Sluder made Mar 26 at 2020 8:07 PM

SGT John Sluder — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 20:07:41 -0400

Hey high speed. I guess you’re better than everyone else. I guess everyone has the same background as you. Partiality and negative judgment on others is not a strong trait as a leader. I feel for the people entrusted to you care that will never measure up to your glory

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Mar 28 at 2020 11:57 AM

CSM David Porterfield — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 11:57:41 -0400

We're the best military in the world and i point that out when I hear Soldiers start pointing out specific countries that allow beards for their military. Many of those "beard wearing" militaries are paper tigers who without us protecting them couldnt hold their own. One thing that 22 months in Afghanistan taught me is that many of our allies (many paid by us to be there) are weak. Many of those militaries are more like unions than a force to be reckoned with. Stop worrying about beards and ask yourself "am I the best Soldier, Marine, Airman or Sailor I can be and am i pyhsically fit enough and proficient in my job enough that I can quickly lay waste to any adversary?" A beard is a personal preference and in some cases is ok but a beard won't make you a better warfighter. To me the beard question is in the same category as umbrellas, lipstick, backpacks and sweaters in uniform. With that said I currently have a serious beard (retired) and had some serious facial hair during my first trip over so I am a fan of beards but not in uniform except in specific situations.

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 29 at 2020 4:11 PM

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 16:11:01 -0400

Eventually I think the Army will allow beards because they are lowering their standards every year and I see this as a Next Step down. Too many civilians interfering in the military. Those that have no understanding of military history customs and bearing will further degrade all military services eventually.

Response by SGT Scott Carter made Mar 30 at 2020 6:17 PM

SGT Scott Carter — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:17:30 -0400

Shut up and do your job!

Response by PVT Clinton Mayberry made Mar 31 at 2020 9:19 AM

PVT Clinton Mayberry — Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:19:04 -0400

When I served all the uniformity was a necessary part of discipline to me, part of teaching responsibility. While I know it can and does get old even today the code is viewed as a signature part of who we are and what we stood for, to me the code needs to stay.

Response by SSgt Dominic Gioffre made Jun 11 at 2020 5:19 PM

SSgt Dominic Gioffre — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 17:19:09 -0400

I’ve had my beard for five years and it has won awards. However, I am willing to part with it if I am permitted to serve again. Even then, I will grow a short one between drill weekends, as my facial hair grows fast.

From what I understand, the main reason why they are not allowed is because of our Protective Masks not being able to seal.

I feel that a professional appearance can be maintained with a full beard and I have demonstrated that in the private sector.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2020 1:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:24:06 -0400

Can't you have the norse pagen (sp?) Religion and not have to shave because of that? Just maintain your appearance? Or am I wrong?

Response by CPT William Jones made Jul 12 at 2020 1:47 PM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 13:47:08 -0400

I’ll bet part of the reason is because the reg would be very hard to write and with all the other appearances problems I wouldn’t have wanted tha hassle of enforcing it when I served. Look any group picture of special operations people. Nearly all will have on and no two will be alike or close to it.

Response by SGT Andrew West made Jul 12 at 2020 2:57 PM

SGT Andrew West — Sun, 12 Jul 2020 14:57:48 -0400

Thats easy gas masks

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Feb 24 at 2021 6:14 PM

SGT John W Lugo — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:14:20 -0500

The military has gone to shit just like the rest if the world forget standards and holding people accountable

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2021 6:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 18:41:43 -0500

3 years, still no good reason.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2021 7:30 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Mar 2021 19:30:53 -0500

Being in the new soft Army, I am in the process of getting a religious shave profile since it cannot be denied for all personnel who are muslim.
As a person of the Islamic faith (solely for Army purposes only) I have now fully announced you muslim, and you are to have a beard as well by the doctrine.
Hope this helped, Sergeant :)

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 31 at 2021 12:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 31 May 2021 12:52:38 -0400

I have an extremely stupid question. Do chicks dig beards? Nothing else matters.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made May 31 at 2021 3:08 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Mon, 31 May 2021 15:08:52 -0400

You can go to Louisiana and sell "duck calls". Beards are recommended. Today's fads have resulted in the lack of discipline across the board. Most of it has been the political figures wanting the military to resemble non-military life. In the military is it usually a 25 year life cycle--remember when the Navy could wear beards under Zumwalt. We now have the appease the minority [and I not talking about race] crowd--new uniforms [WWII], different hair standards, proposed changes to the UCMJ, give little Johnny and Jane the Tattoos they want, claim to have religious restrictions to get special meals and treatment, and get a participation ribbon for showing up for the campaign. Leadership is a separate subject.

Response by SSG Brian L. made May 31 at 2021 8:48 PM

SSG Brian L. — Mon, 31 May 2021 20:48:57 -0400

Its funny how fast every time a new AR 670-1 comes out female standards are revised but nothing really changes for men. I personally think that I would look terrible in a beard but for those that could rock it ....