Why do Active Duty Servicemembers get higher level awards than Reserve Component equivalent accomplishments?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 18:41:29 -0400

I think I know why but interested in hearing the thoughts of others.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 6:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 18:43:00 -0400

I think this another example of Component insecurity and how we fall short of the idea of a Total Army.

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Jun 5 at 2016 6:43 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 18:43:14 -0400

That is a good question, I knew it was an issue when I was in, didn't know it still is...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 6:52 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 18:52:14 -0400

Can't hide the animosity that exists between active and the reserve.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 7:17 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:17:51 -0400

Are you talking PCS/ETS awards? If so thats simple. Working 5 days a week (or more but lets say 5 in a garrison Army) vs working 2 days a month and 2 weeks in the summer. Now are we talking actual accomplishments? No reason. If someone got an AAM for something like say... I dont know 3 300 PT tests in a row, then a reservist does the same thing and gets a COA, then thats just bad leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 7:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:20:26 -0400

Sir, I would say that the USAR is absolutely terrible at awards. On the whole there is very little balance I typically see a Company over awarding or not at all. I believe the instances of over awarding are in an attempt to catch up so to speak for extended periods of not issuing awards. What I believe is much more prevalent is simply not prioritizing recognizing the accomplishments of Soldiers. Its just not a priority so it doesn't get done. This is also why USAR Soldiers will typically receive a lesser award than a Regular Army Soldier for a roughly equivalent achievement. It takes more effort to process a LOM than a ARCOM.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 7:31 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:31:16 -0400

I got two awards in my 8 1/2 years in the reserve. 1. promotion to E-7 2. Selection as the citizen solider of the year.

That was 2 for 323 days. Not all that bad.

Frankly my experience was on a weekend I spent one day getting caught up from last month and one day planning next month.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jun 5 at 2016 7:42 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:42:19 -0400

Writing awards is hard work.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 5 at 2016 7:44 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:44:15 -0400

I do not believe this to be the case, it is level of responsibility coupled with accomplishment.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 7:53 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:53:48 -0400

And the last thing the Army Reserve gave me was a change to salvage some retirement for 14+ years of active duty.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 5 at 2016 7:57 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 19:57:36 -0400

Bureaucracy is like running water. It takes the path of least resistance.

Active duty has less hurdles, therefore, it becomes easier to recognize people appropriately.

Stepping away from Reserve/Active for a moment, let's look at DoN vs DoA for a second. The Army awards "more" than the Navy/USMC. Why? The answer is actually really simple. Approval authority (up until a few years ago) was lower. For an Impact Award like an Achievement Medal (NAM/AAM) it took a LTC in the Army but a Col/Capt in the USMC/Navy. Therefore, what would be recognized with a Medal in the Army was recognized with a CertCom or a Meritorious Mast in the USMC (I've got a stack of LoAx 20+).

Essentially, by having a higher "administrative burden" it changes the Philosophy of Awards.

Were I to ask a Soldier how many AAM/ACM they had, the numbers to me would be surprising. The USMC would NEVER encounter the issue of having to wear multiple ribbons due to the 4 device rule. This not a hit on the Army, but designed to highlight the differences between services.

Taking this mindset and applying it back within the Army (et al), you can see something similar happening, but more from a pragmatic standpoint. There's not only a systemic difference in philosophy that applies to awards, but also administrative hurdles which are harder to overcome because of cross-boundary delineation.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jun 5 at 2016 9:49 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 21:49:42 -0400

A few thoughts:
- Unless you have actual data to back up your statement then I am not sure I agree with the assumption behind your question. What you write may or may not be correct, I do not know.
- Army Regulations are written for the total Army and not for specific components. For example, AAM approval authority is at the BN CDR level while ARCOM approval authority is at the BDE CDR level. If there is a difference in award levels given among the components then would seem to be a component issue and not an Army issue.
- When you write "Reserve Component" are you referring to Component 2 (National Guard), Component 3 (US Army Reserve) or both Component 2 and 3? Words have meaning and make a difference.

Response by Sgt Bry K. made Jun 5 at 2016 10:05 PM

Sgt Bry K. — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:05:17 -0400

I agree that the active component does more work overall. But then again, the entire awards system is flawed and sometimes good people miss out because of poor leadership while some get over rewarded, for the same reason...

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 5 at 2016 10:36 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 22:36:37 -0400

Someone wanted actual data. Don't believe there's been a data query of all service records but awards are one of the fields in the database so shouldn't be a big deal to find out. I already know the answer. Back in the day it was very prevalent to consider Reserves as 1/12th and AD type. ADs hated having to work weekends while the SELRES crew racked up 4-5 days pay. So "stuff" for the reserves was rare even to the point of denial of Purple Hearts to those Reservists who got beat up on my tin can from counter battery. That cost them VA benefits down the road. In the latter stages of 'Nam, anything having to do with Reserves was tamped down because they didn't want it to appear we needed them. Somehow it was bad PR.

Later on in my career, you'd see the regular LM for the retiring O-6 AD type. At best, you'd see a MSM on a retiring O-6 Reservist. When they delegated award authority to CO's, things tended to align as there wasn't any difference to the percentage, etc. for awards to an AD vs Reserve unit. For senior officers, it's still skewed as the Flag usually have a combination of AD and Reserves reporting so they tend to spread it heavier on the AD side. Again, who's always around and who's not.

Overall, my opinion is more old school where there's just way too much fruit salad, patches, etc. out there anyways. My first award was a NAM that had to be signed off by the Fleet 3 Star. It meant a lot to me. Now the Marines delivering it to me in my in-box was another story the I had corrected.

Response by LTC John Mohor made Jun 5 at 2016 11:22 PM

LTC John Mohor — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 23:22:32 -0400

It's a matter of good leaders taking care of their service members regardless of component. With Reserve unit higher HQs being multiple states or regions away it too plays it's own factor in the system. Every unit seems to have a standard within the standards. I remember my first unit LTs that PCSd typicsally were awarded an ARCOM, Field Grade Officers typically received an MSM. I still don't understand why the Chievement Medals or Meritorious Medals were approved for award in combat zones. They were originally designed as peacetime recognition. The Commendation level and Bronnze Star were designed in WWI as both an achievement or Valor Award. the LOM has it's own history and perogatives. Bottom Line if you believe in your Soldier/ Service member you've got to not only write up the award you need to do the research to see what you have to include in the write up in order to get the level of award your trying to have presented!

Response by PO3 Frank Opalecky made Jun 5 at 2016 11:25 PM

PO3 Frank Opalecky — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 23:25:45 -0400

Why do insurance companies charge more when you tell them you drive 50 miles to work each day vrs 5 miles? Same reason opportunity. If your doing something 10 times more than the guy next to you, your risk / reward will be 10 times theirs.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 6 at 2016 1:03 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 01:03:07 -0400

I didn't know this was the case. Going with it though, I would imagine it is a combination of a few things.
1st. Active duty Soldiers write more awards more often.
2nd. The chain of command's take a different view on what they approve.

Response by SPC Brian Mason made Jun 6 at 2016 9:15 PM

SPC Brian Mason — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:15:23 -0400

Common sense: Opportunity. Active Duty. ACTIVE Duty. The military is our job, where as NG and Reservists train in such small amounts they have smaller chances at them. Active units get deployed more often, therefore more opportunity for their soldiers to get badges and medals.
For one, I joined the military to serve my country, not seek medals and fame. As a Medic, I didn't even know the Combat Medic Badge existed until I was awarded it shortly during my first deployment. I wasn't proud for getting it. I was glad that no one died in my company I was attached to during the entire deployment. That means more to me than any award.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Jun 6 at 2016 9:46 PM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:46:57 -0400

Because of the nonstop effort it takes to push a rock uphill. When the people who need to fight the admin battles are only "on the clock" a couple of days a month, and have other things to do on those days, it falls by the wayside. Then eight players move to new gigs and the new guys are not motivated to keep pushing.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jun 6 at 2016 9:57 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 06 Jun 2016 21:57:59 -0400

LTC Private RallyPoint Member Off the top Colonel, I was privileged to meet COL Mitch Paige, USMCR, CMH. Retired.

50 years after receiving the CMH, as perhaps the #2 on Guadalcanal, COL PAIGE was till fiesty!

Of course everyone noted; the 'USMCR' following COL Mitch Paige's name?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 8:20 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:20:09 -0400

I find it depends on the leadership willing to take of soldiers. I left my one unit to be cross leveled to another and wasn't given an award. This includes three years in command and two years brigade staff. When I returned a new brigade XO came in and was awarded an ARCOM when he left the position. The unit I went to Iraq received a Bronze Star Medal. I was on an awards board before and turned down three battalion commanders for MSM because the write ups were terribly done. So, I think it unfortunately depends on how much your command wants to work and put in the effort in awarding their soldiers.

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Jun 7 at 2016 8:50 AM

SSG Michael Scott — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 08:50:09 -0400

They are active and reserve is not. period.

Response by MAJ John Adams made Jun 7 at 2016 10:02 AM

MAJ John Adams — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:02:27 -0400

I can't speak for the current situation, but I know that while I was a cavalry troop commander in the early 1980's one award that was simple recognition of service in the Texas ARNG -- the Texas Faithful Service Medal -- was never awarded because there were none in the inventory and no intent of acquiring any. Having an award on a soldier's record without the soldier having received the decoration was a ping on the AG inspection, so commanders were directed not to award them. The only requirement was satisfactory completion of X years (I forget the number) of service in the TxARNG. I do know that "well done" awards for departing commanders were scarcer than hen's teeth below battalion/squadron level. It just wasn't part of the culture -- probably because of the amount of additional work required to push them through a command structure that wasn't interested.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 10:25 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:25:35 -0400

I got a Navy Achievement Medal when I got out for three years of being the station color Sgt. All the parades, Marine Corps balls etc, was mine all mine.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Jun 7 at 2016 10:35 AM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:35:20 -0400

I heard of a NG HQs Co receiving bronze stars while those who crossed the wire received nothing.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 11:06 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:06:51 -0400

I have been Mobilized 5 times and deployed 4 times as a Physician Assistant:
1) '03-'04 7207th MSU- attached FT Drum MEDDAC ( Active Duty Unit/ 12 months)- AAM
2) '08- Iraq- 400th MP BN- Camp Bucca Iraq- (Reserve Unit/ 11 months)- BSM
3) '10-'11- AFGH- 277th ASB- Bagram- (Active Duty Unit/ 10 months)- ARCOM
'11 AFGH- 82nd AB MEDOPS- Kandahar( Active Duty Unit/ 90 days)- ARCOM
4) '12 AFGH- 1-134th FA OHARNG- ( National Guard Unit/ 6 months)- ARCOM
5) '15 GTMO Cuba- 324th MP BN- ( Reserve Unit under Active Duty CMD/ 9 months)- ARCOM
When my record is compared with active duty Physician Assistants I believe I have done the same outstanding job ( if not more). However as you can see I have been appreciated more by Reserve Unit then Active Duty. What the Active Duty Army does not realize is that the Reserve force sacrifices far more because this is a second job for us and we leave our Family, Homes and jobs to support the Country in times of need. We do not do it for the medal or award, but some equal recognition for our service would be appreciated.

Response by CAPT Don Bosch, EdD made Jun 7 at 2016 11:28 AM

CAPT Don Bosch, EdD — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:28:26 -0400

As a mentor of mine put it, "The awards I earned I never got, and the ones I got I never earned." I think that applies regardless of active or reserve service. But thanks for the reminder - I have one to write on a reservist this week. :)

Response by MSgt Fred Gottshalk made Jun 7 at 2016 11:40 AM

MSgt Fred Gottshalk — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:40:27 -0400

The Reserve component does have to make these awards, since the awards are not a factor for promotion, usually, as they are for active duty folks.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2016 12:17 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 12:17:56 -0400

Despite what the SECArmy or CSA say, the Army Reserve & National Guard are subordinate to the Active Army. Think of it as being a red-headed step-child (sorry to any red-headed step-children in the audience). I spent 12 yrs AD/8 yrs AR and I was always talked down to by AD even while deployed to Iraq in '08 as a MiTT Chief embedded with the IA! Meanwhile, the AD Fobbits had the nerve to tell me that I was less than them....BS! Just remember, awards don't mean much!

Response by CAPT Hiram Patterson made Jun 7 at 2016 2:46 PM

CAPT Hiram Patterson — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:46:18 -0400

Are you including the services' equivalents of Commendation and Achievement medals or just the MSMs and higher? From my Navy active duty and reserve experience, if you are a CO you will get a higher award MSM vs LOM depending on different factors, including precedence. Say you have a key position on a HQ staff, a COM or MSM is common. At this level I don't think it matters whether active or reserve, the awards would be equivalent. Active duty people would have greater opportunity to receive multiple awards of the same medal compared to the reserves.

Response by MAJ Timothy Hyink made Jun 8 at 2016 7:25 AM

MAJ Timothy Hyink — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 07:25:13 -0400

I think it's because active duty commander's don't think reserve soldiers deserve the awards so they downgrade them.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jun 8 at 2016 8:30 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Wed, 08 Jun 2016 20:30:46 -0400

This whole chain of responses reminds me of a conversation I had 20 years ago with a Marine Major who worked for me at HQUSCENTCOM. Gist of the conversation was that Marines got fewer and lower level awards than any other service at the HQ. Turns out he was correct. Back then the Marine leadership attitude was you don't get medals and awards for doing your job. People doing the exact same job with equal performance would get lower awards if they were in USMC. Suspect Reserve Component personnel may fall into this same feeling when award time rolls around. Is it fair, NO WAY, but hard to overcome.

Response by LTC James Williams made Jun 10 at 2016 3:01 PM

LTC James Williams — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:01:14 -0400

There's a tendency to underestimate the Reservist over the Active Duty service member. I had a personal experience where I was put in for a "Soldier's Medal" for a lifesaving event (I will not go into the details). The chain of command did the investigation and submitted the Award. I got commended by a BG (active duty) where I was assigned and he pushed the paperwork to the Active duty HRC. But a LTC (active duty type) at HRC determined that the action was not heroic enough. I guess saving an entire family from dying a fiery death did not meet his threshold.

Response by SFC Daniel McIntire made Jun 11 at 2016 11:38 AM

SFC Daniel McIntire — Sat, 11 Jun 2016 11:38:26 -0400

Sir,
There are three reasons for this phenomenon. Failure to submit the DA 638 for an award is one of the most common reasons for why higher level awards are not often awarded to reserve component soldiers. The lack of criteria knowledge and leadership support within the reserve components adds to this dilemma. It has been seen and expressed that most soldiers do not care about awards; a grossly misguided perception.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2018 1:31 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Jun 2018 13:31:53 -0400

I was lucky. I was an E7 and I was awarded my first MSM. It was also a sad day for me because I see the Wing’s CMSgt (essentially the Brigade CSM) get the same award, a MSM, for 30 years of service. I realize that I have hit the ceiling and (other than campaign medals) my ribbon rack is esentially finished...

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2019 11:44 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jul 2019 23:44:17 -0400

Active duty = Promotion Points.... Guard/Reserve bragging rights at the BBQ on drill weekend or fodder for the I served bumper sticker/hats.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 2 at 2019 2:02 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 14:02:57 -0400

I was told about a NG battalion whose staff received Bronze Stars and those who actually went past the wire AAMs. That is a patently example of selfishness and unfairness.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 2 at 2019 8:26 PM

Maj John Bell — Tue, 02 Jul 2019 20:26:15 -0400

Because Mom and Dad like us best.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 20 at 2021 2:52 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:52:37 -0400

Because full time is more service than part time? This feels like a trick question....
A full timer who does more for the Army than his part time counterpart will simply do more that merits recognition.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 6 at 2021 12:01 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 06 Nov 2021 12:01:25 -0400

Why would someone who devotes every second of the day to the military, including weekends and holidays, constantly goes to the field, constantly PCS'es every 2-3 years, and whose entire life revolves around "needs of the Army", who has to deal with Soldier and unit isssues at 2 am and weekends day in and day out recieve more awards than someone for whom it's a part time hobby?

Mystery of mysteries.....

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 20 at 2022 6:07 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Fri, 20 May 2022 18:07:15 -0400

PROBLEM SOLVING TIME WITH MR. MICHAEL
Short answer? Math.

Long answer: For our example, let's have two LTC's. One Active, one Reserve, both with 37 years of service,
Active duty Soldier: 365 days a year.

Reserve Soldier: 62 days a year (48 MUTA +12 ECT).
Now, we'll use his 37 years as an example. We'll pretend it's all Reserve time for simplicity.
RESERVE: 37 years x 62 actual Army days a year: 2,294 total served days. Divided by 365 actual days in a year: 6.28 years. So in 37 years of Reserve Time, a Soldier will do 6.28 years of actual Army Time.
His Active Duty counterpart with 37 years will do 37 years of actual Army time.

An Active Duty Soldier with 6.28 years is generally a low ranking officer or junior NCO. So a Reserve Officer, NCO, Warrant, etc... with 37 years has as much actual Army time as an Active E-5/6 or junior CPT.
Now this doesn't include weekends, holidays, prior service or deployment mobilizations, but it paints the picture for the disparity.