Why do I never see army pilots wearing their aviation badge?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:26:11 -0500

Maybe I don't understand the two badges properly. But why do I never see them worn by pilots?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 11:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:27:36 -0500

Unless they are sewn on the uniform, they are a FOD hazard.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 11:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:27:53 -0500

They wear they aviator badge unless its not seen on. Then they remove the pinned badge while around the aircraft due it being a FOD hazard

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 11:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:29:29 -0500

As SSG Wallace said, it's a FOD ( foreign object debris) something as small as that can get caught between all the control arms and cause the pilots to not move the collective or cyclic sticks. But if there sewn on, it's fine. Most pilots don't bother with sewning them on

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 11:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:32:03 -0500

And let me clarify that a bit more. While in regular ACUs/OCPs they typically have the badge on, either sewn or pinned. In A2CUs we don't see stuff on since the uniform gets turned back into CIF, so you won't see them wearing their wings all that often if at all

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2016 11:36 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:36:21 -0500

ASU's though, your going see it. They make sure of that. Especially them Apache' aviators. ;D

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 6 at 2016 11:39 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 06 Mar 2016 23:39:08 -0500

You all here on RP just taught me what "FOD" is -- learned something new today from you Aviation folks. :)

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 7 at 2016 12:56 AM

SSG Trevor S. — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 00:56:24 -0500

Because of things like this picture http://s271.photobucket.com/user/eranshaw/media/2_zpse9854a05.jpg.html

Photo by Eric Ranshaw

Explore Eric Ranshaw's photos on Photobucket.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2016 3:18 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Mar 2016 03:18:49 -0500

I was hoping another AVN WO would chime in, but I guess I can. The FOD reason is definitely the top reason aviators don't wear the pin on wings. Some don't wear sew on since we turn flight suits back in. However, personally, if you are an aviator in an aviation unit, everyone is an aviator. I've been told by senior enlisted folks that badges are meant to be a morale boost for enlisted folks. I've always noticed those with jump wings, assault wings, CABs, aviation wings all stacked up felt an overwhelming need to wear their resume. Pilots really don't need to wear their resume. They just walk up to the aircraft, get in, and fly away. That's all the resume one really needs.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 9:57 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 09:57:40 -0500

Personally I like to sew on all the badges I have earned. It's a sense of pride for me, only two, but none the less I have earned them. Pin on is too much of a hassle removing them before preflight then trying to place back in the exact spot.

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 10:40 AM

CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 10:40:46 -0500

Which *two* badges do you mean?

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2016 11:28 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 11:28:16 -0500

Agreed. It's a combination of factors. I don't have the time or want to waste the money to have a set of Aviator wings sewn on my flight uniform, especially as stated we DX them quite often. If you see a Warrant Officer wearing a flight uniform, then 9/10 they are a pilot, if not 10/10. I knew one WO1 who reported to his unit with his wings sewn on his flight uniform, all the other senior pilots started yelling and making it known that they had an Apache pilot in the office. I always keep a regular set of ACUs with my wings sewn on in the off chance I have Staff Duty or a Brief.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 9 at 2016 6:23 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Mar 2016 06:23:37 -0500

FOD like Mr. Edgar said is a big one, but I also am not a fan of the cost. I used to be enlisted when I was a brand new pilot and have a few badges. The flight uniforms we wear have wear dates and you're supposed to dx them come if they come in contact with a petroleum product. So after a few times of spending up to $18-$45 a set just to have to dx that set the next week, I stopped. I do have them on my non-flight uniforms over has a carry over from my old PSG.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 4:58 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:58:36 -0400

1) FOD

2) Most pilots don't mess with their A2CUs because we have to turn them back in. Easier to just leave the velcro

Response by MAJ Jol Rodlle made Mar 30 at 2016 7:58 PM

MAJ Jol Rodlle — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 19:58:17 -0400

Because we are bad asses! But go with the CW4 answer. :-)

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 7:24 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 19:24:38 -0400

I don't wear them because it's extra stuff I have to buy and have put on my uniform. That and I don't want or need the recognition.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2016 8:26 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 08:26:28 -0400

No. 1 reason is its FOD. 2, they wear flight suits and just like ACU it gets worn out and fade but unlike ACU/OCP flight suits can be DX ANYTIME. so getting your badges sawn on is just a ways of time and money

Response by SGM Mike Hardin made Apr 8 at 2016 11:30 PM

SGM Mike Hardin — Fri, 08 Apr 2016 23:30:04 -0400

Even back in the late 1970's we wore two piece Vietnam era Nomex flight suits and we were required to sew all of our patches and badges on them because of FOD, we were also required to wear a nylon watch band or take off our watch and jewelry when doing a PMCS and flying. I remember another crewchief in 1978 who's ring finger (wedding ring) was stripped to the bone by a tailrotor gear box during a PMCS. In the early 1980's when I switched from rotor wing (OH-58) to fixed wing (OV-1D) was when I was issued my first one piece flight suit and we only wore a Velcro leather name tag and sewed on our unit patch. By the mid 1980's all rotor wing crews were in the one piece flight suit, but by the mid 1990's rotor wing was back to the two piece flight suits but with the Velcro name plates and Velcro patches. I retired in 2008 so I have no idea what they wear now. But I will venture to say everything is Velcro or sewed on because of FOD. Easier to use Velcro if the flight suits are DX'ed every 6 months.

Response by CW4 Todd McElmurry made May 11 at 2016 9:21 PM

CW4 Todd McElmurry — Wed, 11 May 2016 21:21:23 -0400

Well being that I was there during that exchange from flight suit to Aviation Battle Dress Uniform (ABDU) back in the 90's to what is now the ACU pattern. It was a top leadership push to make everyone the same, the one piece flight suits. The one piece flight suit was not only a status symbol for aviation but where one could wear their own unit patch; which promoted what we old timers like to refer to as esprit de corps. A sense of pride in one's unit. A higher standard than ones self. So with us all fitting into one mold, why would one wear badges. We are Soldiers first, Officers second, and Pilots third.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2016 12:39 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 May 2016 00:39:02 -0400

Not everyone wants to deal with sewing on new wings every 6-12 months when a flight suit needs DX at CIF. Pin on badges are a FOD hazard to aircraft and not worn.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2016 3:23 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 May 2016 15:23:16 -0400

HAHAHAHA...I'm just too much of a cheap ass to get them sewn on to a uniform that is supposed to be replaced on a pretty regular basis. *glares at CIF*...SUPPOSED TO....I keep ONE set of the normal uniform that has my "resume" for occasions like promotions, change of commands, and staff duty. Because...again, I'm a cheap ass, and the velcro looks terrible, but I don't want to spend money on getting name tapes and rank sewn on more than one set. Yes, I have three more serviceable sets that are all velcroed out thanks to some un-named good Idea fairy, but the times I'm not wearing nomex are few and far between.

Response by MAJ Shortt Steve made May 23 at 2016 2:40 PM

MAJ Shortt Steve — Mon, 23 May 2016 14:40:03 -0400

Since when? I retired in 1994 and worked with the Army until 2014. I saw a lot of wings on uniforms. Oh, and I love the Cav Stetsons with all the badges.

Response by CW2 Fred Baker made Feb 14 at 2017 2:08 PM

CW2 Fred Baker — Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:08:44 -0500

During my service, we proudly wore our sewn on wings during duty and pin on with class A's at all times. Still wear them today.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2017 4:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:48:57 -0400

How do you know an aviator is in the room? They tell you!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2017 4:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:57:08 -0400

I wear it on "normal" ACU's, but on my A2CU's, it's more or less implied. Figured I'd save a little money, and I don't really need to flaunt it. Especially in an aviation unit, where there's like a 125% chance every officer/warrant is an aviator.

Response by SPC Jason Westerling made Oct 14 at 2017 7:31 PM

SPC Jason Westerling — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 19:31:02 -0400

Don’t worry they will let you know. Never meet one that would not. Before lips start flapping I was in aviation and now live near mother Rucker. So get my fill of premadona pricks. Monkey can fly a helicopter but cannot fix it.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 14 at 2017 9:50 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 21:50:58 -0400

Why would they? It's like the Army Service Ribbon, it's implied and doesn't need a ribbon/badge..

Response by CW4 Clark Wilson made Jan 12 at 2018 7:50 PM

CW4 Clark Wilson — Fri, 12 Jan 2018 19:50:11 -0500

Army Aviators should wear the Aviator Badge on the Nomex ACU at all times, be proud that you are an aviator.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2018 5:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 17:59:11 -0500

I am an aviator and I wear my wings sewn onto my flight uniform. In a flight suit, the pin on badges are not authorized. Wearing them or not is a personal choice. I went through a lot to earn the right to wear my wings so I wear them proudly. But that’s just me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2018 4:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 16:38:13 -0400

as a 15p we get aviation badges after completing ait. None of us Wear them because we all have them

Response by SSG Brian Edwards made Sep 25 at 2018 6:20 PM

SSG Brian Edwards — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 18:20:25 -0400

When I was in we went from one piece to two piece flight uniforms. We made sure to wear our wings just to piss off everyone else, because they were the reason we had to go to acu's to begin with. Plus I spent almost a year to earn my crewmen bagde and then 10 years to earn my senior wings and was proud of it.

Response by Shane Harnett made Sep 25 at 2018 9:43 PM

Shane Harnett — Tue, 25 Sep 2018 21:43:15 -0400

I don’t understand why they would not wear them. In the Australian Military everything earned is a point of pride in your hard work. But then again we didn’t get a medal or badge for getting up on time like the yanks!

Response by SFC Jimmy Williams made Sep 26 at 2018 11:31 AM

SFC Jimmy Williams — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 11:31:54 -0400

I am sure things have changed since I retired in 1995. But the regs stated that you must wear qualification badges, awards and decorations. When I was s private, a CSM told me he should be able to look at my uniform and know 90% of my experience. It was not “wearing your resume”. It was required. The army publications stated that wearing badges, awards and decorations was intended to encourage other soldiers to excel.
However, even in the old days, aviators were known for sloppiness with their uniform. Sorry if that offends anyone, but it is a fact that having the coolest job around can lead to a little narcissistic attitude.
But having said that, back then aviators wore a leather Velcro patch on their flightsuits that had their wings, name and rank on it. I see tons of Velcro on the current uniforms. So, is anything sewn on anymore?

Response by SCPO Andrew Harris made Sep 26 at 2018 8:22 PM

SCPO Andrew Harris — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 20:22:26 -0400

Everything you Army pilots says makes perfect sense. Just a comment about those wings would not catch a Naval Aviator without his Gold Pigeon Wings pinned on when they aren't in flight gear. Lol

Response by SPC Charles Lipham made Sep 26 at 2018 8:57 PM

SPC Charles Lipham — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 20:57:39 -0400

I was a uh60 crew chief I never saw a pilot not wear their aviation badge

Response by SPC Larry Shahan made Sep 27 at 2018 1:34 AM

SPC Larry Shahan — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 01:34:22 -0400

It's all about FOD. In my unit the pilots wore the old flight suites that had the leather name patch which included wings, your rank and name. You didn't need the metal or sew on bec it was velcro.

Response by CPL Chris Ferguson made Sep 27 at 2018 2:22 PM

CPL Chris Ferguson — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 14:22:39 -0400

When I was in all of our pilots wore their badges, sewn on of course, not the pin on wings. We were either in ABDU’s or the green flight suits with the velcro name tags and wings on the chest. I never saw a single pilot or crewchief without their wings though. 2000-2006 Blackhawk crewchief.

Response by PO2 Hauke Powers made Sep 27 at 2018 7:18 PM

PO2 Hauke Powers — Thu, 27 Sep 2018 19:18:01 -0400

I have two cousins..one was USAF fighter pilot ...the other US Army Apache pilot...they wore their cloth wings, nothing else...on their flight coveralls...in uniform, they wore the pin...

Response by SP5 Frank Hewitt made Sep 28 at 2018 4:15 PM

SP5 Frank Hewitt — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 16:15:32 -0400

We always wore ours sewed on in the old days never pins unless in dress

Response by SGT Patrick Fox made Sep 29 at 2018 12:23 AM

SGT Patrick Fox — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 00:23:19 -0400

FOD....that is all

Response by CW4 Ted Elhardt made Sep 29 at 2018 8:42 PM

CW4 Ted Elhardt — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 20:42:31 -0400

In my day, we wore all that information on the leather badge held onto the uniform by Velcro

Response by PO3 John Keas made Nov 18 at 2018 7:12 PM

PO3 John Keas — Sun, 18 Nov 2018 19:12:11 -0500

Most everything not sewn or velcroed is FOD (foreign object debris) and can be hazardous on the flight deck or flight line. Best to keep it away. I remember having to make sure I wasn't carrying anything when I went up on the flight deck on the Kitty Hawk. Didn't want to get chewed out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 7:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 19:04:14 -0500

They ware their badge all around them, in their aircraft.

Response by CW4 Terry Jones made Dec 14 at 2018 3:38 PM

CW4 Terry Jones — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 15:38:53 -0500

Nice picture guys and Miss. Congratulations on the earned awards. Like most of us Army Pilots, we earned our awards up close and personal.

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Dec 27 at 2018 4:40 PM

SFC Mamerto Perez — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 16:40:48 -0500

You must be looking at wrong places. During Vietnam and after, I saw many of pilots wearing them.
I used to live in a Traillor Park in Savannah, Georgia, and would every day

Response by SSgt Dennis Brown made Jan 2 at 2019 12:24 PM

SSgt Dennis Brown — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 12:24:24 -0500

why do you turn in flight suits???? In my previous experiences, ANY clothing item that came in contact with you skin was never turned in, but considered a permanent issue item

Response by MAJ Rick Scruggs made Jan 21 at 2019 5:10 PM

MAJ Rick Scruggs — Mon, 21 Jan 2019 17:10:37 -0500

I have no idea what the modern Army is doing. I always wore my wings for 22 years. We sewed them on our flights suits or had velcro leather wings with Rank and wings.

Response by SSG Rheta Perez made Feb 11 at 2019 8:18 AM

SSG Rheta Perez — Mon, 11 Feb 2019 08:18:49 -0500

Because they’re so badass, they don’t need no stinkin’ Badges.

Response by SFC Steve Renner made Feb 18 at 2019 4:54 PM

SFC Steve Renner — Mon, 18 Feb 2019 16:54:42 -0500

In another few years nobody will be allowed to wear anything that everybody doesn't have. Can't have all these people running around with hurt feelings because Joe Blow has an award-patch-medal-ribbon that Snuffy doesn't have.

Response by CW4 Brian Hammonds made Feb 20 at 2019 10:30 PM

CW4 Brian Hammonds — Wed, 20 Feb 2019 22:30:34 -0500

This picture is over 11 years old; times have changed dramatically since then. However, if COL(R) Farrington and CW5 Tom Boise didn't want to wear any badges, we shouldn't fret. Master Aviator, SF, Ranger, CIB, CAB, EIB, Air Assault, Airborne, Scuba, etc. are not pictured, but all 4 are top-notch and know their aviator skills and handling the ground maneuver force is second to none.
https://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/03/pilots-receive.html

Pilots Receive DFC's for battle in Mosul

Capatin Peter Di Giorgio and 1st Lt. Robert I. Sickler both of Troop A, 4th Squadron, 6th Cavalry Regiment received the DFC in two separate ceremonies for their actions on December 30th, 2007. Sickler was later wounded in another engagement on February 17th and is recovering at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. He had shrapel removed from a lung and is expected to make a full recovery and get back into the fight before the end of his unit's...

Response by CW2 Scott Quaife made Feb 23 at 2019 9:31 AM

CW2 Scott Quaife — Sat, 23 Feb 2019 09:31:47 -0500

Metal Wings are only allowed in places away from any flight line or combat environment. If regulations allow sow on wings then by all means you will see them. It means a lot to earn them, especially after the DoD spends ruffly 1.5 million to train a pilot.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Feb 25 at 2019 3:31 AM

SSgt Daniel d'Errico — Mon, 25 Feb 2019 03:31:12 -0500

This is kind of both weird and funny. Being Air Force our pilots have velcroed backed flight badges (@3x4 in size). Name, rank and rating of pilot qualifcation. Our enlisted crew members wear them too. Pin badges are for dress, mess dress and class A blues. Every one wears name tapes on their fatigues. Regardless of rank up to 06 or higher. We nave crew members (officer types) who aren't pilots, but are the navigators, electronic warfare operators, doctors on flight status, radar operators and several other career field types. They all wear flight badges with different badges for their careers. I guess the ARMY pilots have different rules on what they wear on their flight suits.

Response by CW3 Matthew Dine made Mar 12 at 2019 10:38 PM

CW3 Matthew Dine — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 22:38:53 -0400

I had my badges sewn on my ACUs when I was assigned as the Tacops Officer in the BAE. Up until then I’d never seen the need to wear wings while assigned in an aviation unit. Wearing them while assigned to an infantry brigade gave me more creditablilty I felt as an SME around the command team.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 25 at 2019 12:59 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 12:59:06 -0400

Depending on the Location and Rotation you will see many Soldiers who are authorized badges not wearing them because of command policies.
OIF I, 2003 we wore our badges sewn on our uniforms. OIF 05-07 no badges were to be worn. So photos from one rotation you see folks you know with their scare me badges and the other they are all bare chested.

Response by CW4 Tim McCartney made Apr 28 at 2019 11:20 PM

CW4 Tim McCartney — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:20:50 -0400

My Father and his three brothers enlisted and served in WW2 (as did most from their generation). After high school, I enlisted in the mid-'70s when being a soldier wasn't the most popular thing to do. Out of 750 from my high school graduation class, only 4 enlisted in the military (one was my twin brother). I served with men who were drafted and those who volunteered. I've been a retired CW4 aviator since 2008, +30 active and national guard. As a former enlisted soldier and crew chief, I looked up to the CWO's I knew and flew with. Most were Vietnam veterans. They will always be heroes and mentors to me. As I see it, earning and wearing Army Aviator wings, in a small way, included me in this exceptional group of soldiers. This brotherhood I have joined will always be something I feel pride in belonging to. We all know our primary job is to support the 11B's. Most of the combat arms soldiers I flew wore Parachute badges and other forms of awards, it was/is a small way to distinguish yourself from other soldiers. One of my nephews is currently serving as an Army 04 and earned his Jump Master wings. He proudly wears them on his uniforms. To those who say it costs too much to have patches sewn on, I remember you from the O' club...you never bought a round. lol.

Response by CW4 Tim McCartney made Apr 28 at 2019 11:21 PM

CW4 Tim McCartney — Sun, 28 Apr 2019 23:21:20 -0400

Response by Capt Paul Richter made May 2 at 2019 1:17 AM

Capt Paul Richter — Thu, 02 May 2019 01:17:20 -0400

Just because you are assigned to a unit should only mean that you wear that units patch.

Response by SFC William Allen made May 3 at 2019 5:45 AM

SFC William Allen — Fri, 03 May 2019 05:45:43 -0400

I was a Motor Sargent in an aviation Unit 2000- 2003. I loved dealing with the Pilots and I think I have the answer. They don't need no stinkin' badges! ( sorry but I just couldn't resist that one).

Response by SFC Erin Barnett made May 3 at 2019 4:10 PM

SFC Erin Barnett — Fri, 03 May 2019 16:10:08 -0400

1st off, all those folks are in flight suits. Most crewmembers don't bother to pin anything on them. Just not worth the hassle when you walk up to an aircraft.

Response by CW4 Robert Augur made Jun 5 at 2019 9:11 AM

CW4 Robert Augur — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 09:11:22 -0400

I will never for get an encounter I had with a female soldier in the EM club (yes they really existed) back in the 1970's when I first became a crew chief of Huey. I was in my flight suit, after having flown all day, sitting at the bar having a beer, this young lady sat next to me and we started talking. She was asking questions about flying and crewing a helicopter. As we talked she looked at my uniform and noticed I was not wearing Crew Member Wings. I explained to her that I had just started crewing and had not met the required number of Combat hours, Administrative Hours, or Time Served as a Crew Member to be permanently awarded Crew Member Wings and that is why they weren't on my uniform (I was in an aviation unit and believe me the wearing of wings on your uniform was a Big Deal especially if one hadn't earned them and was wearing them). The young lady just couldn't believe I could be a Crew Chief and not have wings. I attempted to move the conversation in another direction but she wouldn't let go. Needless to say after about 15 minutes I ended up sitting by myself and went back to my hooch alone. So whats the point of this story? None really, just thought of that day when I saw the post and decided to share it. Concerning the wearing the wearing of wings. It was an honor for me to be permanently awarded Crew Member Wings and to display them on my uniform. I earned them!! The same applies for my Aviator Wings. But I am from a different Army. The following is a take off from the Smothers Brothers Cowboy song . I see by your WINGS that you are Pilot, you see by WINGS than I'm a Pilot too. We see by WINGS that we are both Pilots and if you Earn your WINGS you can be a Pilot too.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2019 1:05 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 01:05:42 -0400

Really? I have some questions regarding the above photo. (1) Why are the types of pins on their Calvary hats in a different order from one person to the next? A couple have their rank on top, one has his cavalry insignia on top and the other has her wings up on top. Isn’t there some regulation regarding the top to bottom order of the pins on the Cavalry hat? (2) Why would some be wearing their medals and the others not be? (plus, first time I ever saw them on BDUs)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 12:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:00:53 -0400

So 20+ years in aviation branch and I can tell you the officers and warrant officers seem to be the cheapest bunch of people. My initial response to your question was, "they don't want to pay to sew it on." It's also the second reason they love flight suits (first being to let everyone know they are in aviation). They don't pay for flight uniforms and exchange them for new ones.

Response by LTC Denis Sullivan made Jul 10 at 2019 5:00 PM

LTC Denis Sullivan — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:00:08 -0400

I rarely see one without it.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 14 at 2019 3:22 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:22:46 -0400

I sewed my wings onto my A2CUs. A ton of people I know have done so. It's okay to actually be proud of an accomplishment and take pride in what you do, although many people nowadays would like to suggest otherwise.

Response by COL Walt Frederick made Jul 17 at 2019 9:58 AM

COL Walt Frederick — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:58:11 -0400

One thing you all may want to consider is the flight suit is equipment, like a helmet, gloves, etc. It is not individual clothing. The two piece flight suit looks completely different than a BDU/ASU. You will notice in picture the colonel in the center has his boots bloused. The people wearing the flight suit do not. Normally, you don't sew items on equipment.

Response by CW4 Steven Bowyer made Jul 17 at 2019 1:06 PM

CW4 Steven Bowyer — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 13:06:49 -0400

The Aviator Wings, Senior Aviator Wings and Master Aviator Wings should be worn. Graduating Flight School in 1983 we all wore one piece flight suits with leather name tags that had our name, rank and wings on it that velcro'd onto the flight suit. In Germany I was also issued some Vietnam Era two-piece Nomex and I had my name, rank, branch, and wings sewn on them. This pretty much remained standard through the 1980's and into the 1990's until we started receiving some two-piece BDU's. The two-piece BDU's used the leather name tag with Velcro backing described above (there were also desert tan two-piece that I thought were the best two-piece Nomex made). I personally wore one piece after 1987 through 1999. All the time, name, rank and wings were worn. The new ACU's are what happened to the wings. Initially, nothing was supposed to be sewn on them for different reasons; security if downed, integrity of Nomex (an old myth), etc. The Army had long wanted Aviators to look like the rest of the force vs. wearing unique flight suits. With the ACU they finally got it done. I was recalled from 2006 to 2008 and went to Iraq. While there I wore the ACU flight suit without wings (just rank) and the desert tan two-piece with name, rank, branch and wings sewn on. I wore these primarily, as they were more comfortable. I believe that wings should be worn with pride, same as rank. Just as rank indicates experience and leadership role, wings also indicate experience. When you walk into a briefing with your customers, it used to be nice to be able to look at a uniform and see who did what and how long they've been doing it. With sewn on rank, branch and qualifications it was easy to see who you wanted to talk to. Needed to talk to an aviator? Look for the Aviation branch insignia. Needed to talk to the aviator with experience? Look at the rank and/or wings. Needed to talk to your artillery support? Look for the Artillery branch insignia. You get the picture.

In my opinion, combat uniforms should still have sewn on insignia's (rank, name, branch, qualifications). Pin-on anything is a no-go around aircraft. If a uniform needs to be sterilized for an operation, keep a clean one handy.

Response by SMSgt Paul Billick made Jul 18 at 2019 3:51 PM

SMSgt Paul Billick — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 15:51:26 -0400

If you've ever been around them you know pilots assholes.

Response by CW4 Brian Haas made Jul 21 at 2019 11:10 PM

CW4 Brian Haas — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 23:10:22 -0400

I’ve e never seen any not wearing them. We are pretty damn proud of those. Most are seen on or Velcro nowadays, so perhaps you’re just missing them? It was easier back in the one piece flight suit days when it was just a patch, and there was a lot of pride in wearing the pickle suit. But the Big Army has to ruin that. God forbid someone look a little different...beck, there’s even a quote by aviation leadership that is the Army lost all of its Warrant Officer pilots, it would still be the Army...so that’s how much we mean to the Army leadership. Hopefully that changes a bit with the incoming Army Chief if Staff, as he’s an aviator. And a damn good leader and commander , too.

Response by SGT Karl R Lechten made Jul 31 at 2019 10:49 PM

SGT Karl R Lechten — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 22:49:55 -0400

NAM 68/69 AH1G-Cobra..... sewing same on is just extra work, besides, I stand on my lanai after all these years, look down, wave my arms...……… and still can't fly...LOLLLLLLLLLL

Response by CW2 Scott Pitta made Aug 10 at 2019 2:15 PM

CW2 Scott Pitta — Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:15:57 -0400

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges. Besides, if you want to know if someone is a pilot just give them a second and they'll tell you.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2019 9:35 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Aug 2019 09:35:14 -0400

CW4 Edgar is right - FOD. I flew with some ARNG folks last year and asked them the same question.

Response by LTC Ernie Ganas made Aug 23 at 2019 3:53 PM

LTC Ernie Ganas — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 15:53:58 -0400

When I was a unit commander all my pilots and crewmen wore their sew on badge

Response by WO1 Craig L Wirth made Aug 31 at 2019 1:08 PM

WO1 Craig L Wirth — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 13:08:48 -0400

I don't know how they do it now, but when I was in we definitely wore ours... and we were very proud of them. We worked hard to earn them. I was in when it was still the FAST test we had to take to qualify to go to school. They switched it over to the slow test before I got out of the service. lol

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Sep 29 at 2019 7:21 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:21:37 -0400

Must be an Army thing. Everyone I knew in the Air Force wore their wings and yes they were sewn on. We learned how to take them off in the comfort of our cushy quarters when we had to turn a flight suit in. :-)

Response by CW4 Edward Wolfe made Oct 3 at 2019 7:35 PM

CW4 Edward Wolfe — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:35:38 -0400

In the 60's through the 70's on two-piece Nomex, we had sew on wings. When one-piece Nomex and Nomex flight jackets came out in the late 70's, we had Velcroed name tags with our name, rank, and wings upon them. I had either sew on wings on my cap, or the metal wings pinned on whether they be Army Aviator, Senior Army Aviator, or Master Army Aviator wings. Always wore the metal wings on the chest while wearing Class A, or B uniforms. When the wings go on, they never come off!

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Oct 6 at 2019 10:46 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:46:31 -0400

During my army career we always wore our wings, silver pin-on for our greens, sewn on for our BDU, and printed on our leather name tags on our flight suits. It must be a different army now.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Oct 11 at 2019 8:36 PM

Sgt Dan Catlin — Fri, 11 Oct 2019 20:36:34 -0400

One of the things I liked about the Corps, we did not have nearly as much "bling" on our uniforms. Then again, that egle, globe and anchor kind of said everything that needed saying! :)

j/k They earned it, nothing wrong with wearing it. But I do like to keep things simple myself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2019 11:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 11:37:15 -0400

It’s amusing how half the aviators say others wear badges to feel good about themselves etc. If you aren’t wearing your badges in duty uniform on non flying days you look cheap and lazy. Same with the whole wanting to wear flight suits on a non flying day. We don’t have combat dive teams walking around in banana hammocks or wet suits if they aren’t swimming or diving. Some units wear all their flare, some wear none. When in Rome. It’s pretty simple. In an airborne unit? Wear your jump wings. In a Ranger unit? Wear your wings and your tab if you have one. Deliberately not wearing something so you can feel like a cool guy is douchey. Way to over think and care more about something you are pretending to not care about.

Response by 1LT Charles Parker made Oct 15 at 2019 11:12 PM

1LT Charles Parker — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 23:12:37 -0400

Back in early 70’s this am guy ran a central issue facility at FTC hood. As guys traded in their nomex we would have to take off old unit insignia. Many made in country. What tales they could tell. Young warrants flying into hell because it was their duty. I saved a bunch. 45 plus years later are there folks who think they have places where these little bits of history could help future generations learn?

Response by Col Gonzalo Arturo Gutierrez Orozco made Nov 9 at 2019 11:10 AM

Col Gonzalo Arturo Gutierrez Orozco — Sat, 09 Nov 2019 11:10:48 -0500

No any time are bag's !!!!!Some times they are not !!!!!but I NEED ALL TIME MY PERSONAL EQUIPAMENT.AND MY TEAM.

Response by SMSgt Ed Turney made Nov 10 at 2019 10:03 AM

SMSgt Ed Turney — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 10:03:55 -0500

The USAF solved that problem. The old 35-10 directed the wear of badges and ribbons on class A uniforms. If you were awarded it you wore it, period. Aircrews always wore wings on fit suits the fabric kind never the metal pins.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2019 11:11 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:11:51 -0500

I have been in aviation for 16 years, most of that as a maintainer and crew chief. I was an E7 prior to becoming an aviation maintenance warrrant. I wear my wings partly because they’re different than aviator wings and that separates me from the pack of pilots running around, I sew them on so I’d don’t have have a FOD issue and because I’ve been sewing stuff on my uniform since 1998. Most, not all, pilots don’t go out of their way to sew things on their uniform or pin them on for that matter because it isn’t required. Call it laziness if you will but it just isn’t important to many of them. They’re happy being pilots and strive to be the best at that they can be for the most part, other badge earning schools are all secondary.

Response by A1C Riley Sanders made Nov 10 at 2019 11:37 PM

A1C Riley Sanders — Sun, 10 Nov 2019 23:37:00 -0500

might be a little to self aware on Civies , I worked at an Air & Space museum for 14 yrs , we wore vest that had all our military Id, patch's , Wings for the pilots, visitors really like seeing the veterans with their military insignia's.
Should Vietnam Vets be addressed as Vietnam vets ? those that wear the Black Hats usually signify which War, my answer is yes they should be Id'd to which war.
Should we be upset with those that dodged the Draft? not really upset however it does signify their position which Isn't good.
STOLEN VALOR:
Walk a way. agree with PO2 George Martin.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 13 at 2019 10:46 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 22:46:07 -0500

I'm lazy. I don't take my flight uniforms very seriously, so I just throw Velcro name tapes on and go. If I'm not on flight duty, I wear ACU, which have my badge sewn on them. Seriously though, the lapel covers the badge half the time though, so I see why some folks wouldn't bother at all.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2019 12:22 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:22:58 -0500

Pin on wings are FOD (Foreign Object Debris). Pilots, crew chiefs, and any other maintainers are not allowed to wear them.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Dec 13 at 2019 9:21 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:21:01 -0500

If the badge is pin on, they won't wear it because of FOD(Foreign Object Damage). They will however have their badges sewn onto their uniforms.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Dec 15 at 2019 3:08 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:08:16 -0500

How many of you realize that all those ribbons, shiny medals, and other baubles of crap that hangs off your Uniform is there to attract attention, kind of like Magpies and Bowerbirds nests: look at me, look at me, I'm as (_________) as I can be.

Yeah, maybe certain ones do showoff ones prowess, but, depending on how good one is with prose, one can make "Field Sanitation NCO" look impressive, or being a "Bilge Rat"

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Jan 11 at 2020 3:59 PM

SN Mike Duffy — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:59:14 -0500

Well, they ate in the wardroom once on my FFG in the gulf, then stuck to the messdecks with the rest of us. I wonder if it's a similar reason.
I'm talking about Kiowa pilots in '88. They inflicted the most damage on Iran at the time.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2020 1:56 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:56:18 -0500

As a master avation WO, I always wear mine. I have it sewn on all of my flight gear. I always have one set with nothing on for a sterile uniform.

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jan 12 at 2020 9:20 PM

LTC Lee Bouchard — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 21:20:51 -0500

The uniform is another way of communicating with others. Consider the uniform and what appears on it's surface a non verbal communication. Different uniforms allow for what can or should be worn on them. The dress uniform is the most non verbal as it shows more about the person's background, history, and unit affiliation etc. The Regs. allow for individual choice as what to wear in most cases.

In my opinion if you earned it, worked for it and was awarded it, wear it. Take pride in yourself and what the uniform represents. Remember, there was a time in the 60's and 70's when you were told not to wear your uniform in public or dared not to for your personal safety.

Thank God we live in a better place today thanks to those serving today and yesterday.

Response by CW4 William Kessinger made Jan 15 at 2020 6:34 PM

CW4 William Kessinger — Wed, 15 Jan 2020 18:34:38 -0500

I am glad I am not in the current Modern Army. I worked too hard for my wings and would always wear them before any other badge. While commissioned in a combat arms branch (will not say which one) some of the non-rated commanders tried to make the Captains (company CO's in AIT units) take off their aviation wings. Most did not. Good for them. Final Aviation became its own branch. About time!

Response by LTC Denis Sullivan made Jan 17 at 2020 1:18 PM

LTC Denis Sullivan — Fri, 17 Jan 2020 13:18:50 -0500

I don't know where that scenario would happen. In my aviation units, they were always worn.

Response by CW2 Anthony Dowdell made Jan 18 at 2020 12:24 AM

CW2 Anthony Dowdell — Sat, 18 Jan 2020 00:24:21 -0500

I simply didnt feel the need to display such things on a daily basis. After a General jumped my case, I had all my badges sewn on.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 15 at 2020 2:21 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:21:57 -0500

From what I understand, pin-on wings are a hazard for Army aviators and sew-on wings don't get sewn onto flight suits because of them getting turned in and re-issued. At least that's what my flight warrant friends have told me.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Feb 16 at 2020 9:29 PM

SFC Larry Jones — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:29:01 -0500

Retired 25 years. I don't recall ever "reading" an aviator's flight suit. If he can keep the bird in the air and get me safely back to the ground, that was all I cared about.

Response by CW2 James Pero made Feb 17 at 2020 3:34 PM

CW2 James Pero — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:34:01 -0500

As a CW2 in Nam with over 1000 hrs during one tour I, we, always wore our wings. If not sewn on then pinned on our flight suites or caps. Our black CAV hats always had wings above the CAV crossed sabers. FOD sounds like a lame excuse from a REMF to me.

Response by 1LT James Rosebrough made Feb 17 at 2020 9:51 PM

1LT James Rosebrough — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 21:51:14 -0500

I proudly wear my Army Aviator wings on my hat. The original wings pinned on me by my wife when I was Honor Graduate of Class 64-4W. 1st LT INF. RVN 1965-1966 1st Cavalry Division.

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Feb 23 at 2020 1:55 AM

CW2 Jalistair B — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 01:55:49 -0500

Once upon a time the army had BDUs and ABDUs. Aviation badges, jump wings, CAB, they were all sewn onto the ABDU. Back in those days most pilots were whatever badges they had earned. Then the army came out with the ACU. From that day forward I never wore another badge on either the ACU or any subsequent uniform. Once everything went to velcro it it was no longer worth the hassle of putting on a pin each day. Forget about FOD, I wouldn't even wear them away from the flight line. Just another lost tradition.

Response by Sgt Ron Sprague made Mar 20 at 2020 6:17 PM

Sgt Ron Sprague — Fri, 20 Mar 2020 18:17:54 -0400

I was a boom operator and it was part of our flight suit.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 29 at 2021 2:14 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:06 -0400

You earn it wear it with pride.

Response by SSG Robert Peterson made Sep 29 at 2021 2:30 PM

SSG Robert Peterson — Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:30:16 -0400

Envy is the art of counting the other fellows blessings instead of your own