Why do many Outlaw biker gangs have former military members?

SFC Joseph James — Fri, 22 May 2015 21:57:23 -0400

After seeing the deaths of the biker shootout in Waco Texas I have noticed a lot of articles and media attention on how many of these bikers are former military. One was a Vietnam Veteran that received the Purple Heart. I was wondering what causes a Veteran to want to join up with actual "Outlaw" Biker gangs? Is it the thrill of adventure the calls them or what? Please answer in the comments.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/22/atf-report-warned-military-government-membership-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs/

Exclusive: Leaked Report Profiles Military, Police Members of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs

The report, issued by the ATF last July, includes investigations into the Bandidos and Cossacks, whose bloody clash last weekend left nine dead in Waco, Texas.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made May 22 at 2015 9:59 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Fri, 22 May 2015 21:59:56 -0400

The feeling of comraderie?
Shared need for a structured, hierarchical organization to belong to?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 10:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 22:08:50 -0400

It's the assless chaps man.... The assless chaps.

Response by SPC George Adkins made May 22 at 2015 10:17 PM

SPC George Adkins — Fri, 22 May 2015 22:17:36 -0400

The original "Outlaw" bikers were born of WWII vets. Throughout the years, their ranks have historically been filled with combat vets. Yes, it is the camaraderie. It is also the structure and sense of belonging in a world that doesn't seem normal after serving.

No, I'm not in a biker gang. I have known quite a few members over the years and I read lot.

Response by SPC Valerie Snyder made May 22 at 2015 10:31 PM

SPC Valerie Snyder — Fri, 22 May 2015 22:31:30 -0400

I agree its the Camaraderie that they get. I have been out for 20 years and have never had a group of friends like the ones I had in the Army. Many people have come and gone from my life but Every person I served with I still talk to almost daily. . It is difficult to find it on the outside so when you do you don't let go.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made May 22 at 2015 10:32 PM

TSgt Joshua Copeland — Fri, 22 May 2015 22:32:57 -0400

As mentioned already, history. Most of the original and many of the "big" OMGs were founded by military vets. The connections are even in thier names and colors. It isn't an accident that the Bandidos colors are Red and Gold and the Hells Angels emblem is the same as the WWII squadron of the same name.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made May 22 at 2015 11:00 PM

SFC Christopher Perry — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:00:58 -0400

My guess would be the sense of belonging.

Response by Cpl Dennis F. made May 22 at 2015 11:04 PM

Cpl Dennis F. — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:04:17 -0400

Actually, the outlaw clubs were started up by returning WWII veterans in the 40s that were bored, missed the adventure and had post war money to spend on a large bike. It has been a tradition of sorts since then. I rode with such a club in the 70s that was largely Vietnam veterans.

Response by MSgt Robert Slagle made May 22 at 2015 11:09 PM

MSgt Robert Slagle — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:09:31 -0400

I read a study that was put out a few years ago that claimed 76% of "bikers" are Veterans.

One word...

Brotherhood

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made May 22 at 2015 11:20 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:20:49 -0400

This goes back to fighter pilots returning from WWII. They survived , life and death every day. To get that adrenaline rush they experienced daily they formed biker clubs. To get that rush. And ptsd hadn't been given a name. But that does not answere the question why they became outlaws.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made May 22 at 2015 11:24 PM

SFC Daniel Faires — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:24:41 -0400

If you don't ride, you will never understand. I belong to a motorcycle organization that promotes patriotism, service , brotherhood and helping veterans
( nope not cvma)

The organization I belong too you earn your back patch
Just remember it is something you earned in the service the same its motorcycle organizations (mc) or not it's the brotherhood the camaraderie but most of all its knowing someone has your back

Response by SPC Angel Guma made May 22 at 2015 11:26 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:26:45 -0400

Absolutely spot on question Sgt James!

Response by MSgt Brian Welch made May 22 at 2015 11:33 PM

MSgt Brian Welch — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:33:38 -0400

I think you know the answer to this. One, the military is a cross section of the country. Did you know Elvis was in the military? Chuck Norris... Sinbad? Ok, if any of them can be in the military, is it possible a biker gang type guy coulda served? Sure, right? Even more plausible what about a guy that served and joined a biker club but didn't know it was an "outlaw" club until he got wrapped up in it. Com'n did you know the biggest domestic terrorist was military? So why do many outlaw biker gangs have former military members?... I don't know...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 11:38 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 May 2015 23:38:07 -0400

I believe the sense of belonging, or as Hoot says in Black Hawk Down, "is the guy next to you"... That's one thing civilians would never understand... The military brotherhood is very strong, so strong that it goes beyond branches. I rather be with a biker than with a freaking stolen valor a>€^%hole...

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made May 23 at 2015 12:13 AM

CW2 Stephen Pate — Sat, 23 May 2015 00:13:21 -0400

So they can make money! Nobody wants to hire a grumpy, PTSD having, bacon loving, flag waving asshole vet!

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 23 at 2015 12:54 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 23 May 2015 00:54:48 -0400

SFC Joseph James I think there are many factors. The desire to be part of a team, camaraderie, sense of family and common purpose, structure, thrills, and perhaps a sense of betrayal by the government. They also recruit/seek service members and veterans.

This might answer your question: (I would read the PDF Starting on Page 24 - "U.S. Military Vets")

https://publicintelligence.net/ules-atf-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs-omgs-and-the-military-2010-report/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/05/18/waco-shootout-motorcycle-gangs/27525021/

https://christopherburg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/atfe-omgs-and-the-military.pdf

(U//LES) ATF Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs (OMGs) and the Military 2010 Report | Public Intelligence

In January 2009, the ATF Office of Strategic Intelligence and Information (OSII) disseminated the Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs (OMGs) and the Military report to

Response by SPC Angel Guma made May 23 at 2015 1:11 AM

SPC Angel Guma — Sat, 23 May 2015 01:11:36 -0400

Many people join the military, because ironic as it seems, they are really rebels at heart. Either they wanted to do something 'different', they wanted the thrill of something out of the box, or they have serious beliefs and can't be told to not express them. Biker gangs, at least as what I've seen of them, allow these sort of individuals to express themselves in that fashion.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made May 23 at 2015 1:30 AM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Sat, 23 May 2015 01:30:31 -0400

post military need for some sort of brotherhood to reminisce perhaps

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 23 at 2015 2:05 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sat, 23 May 2015 02:05:25 -0400

Firstly, there's no such thing as a biker gang. The proper term is Motorcycle Club.

But to answer the question, a lot of men join MC's for the sense of brotherhood and organization that they left behind when they got out of the military.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 23 at 2015 2:47 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sat, 23 May 2015 02:47:50 -0400

"INTERESTING CENSUS STATISTICS & THOSE TO CLAIM TO HAVE 'Been There':

1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August,1995 (census figures).

During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958."

http://www.nationalvietnamveteransfoundation.org/statistics.htm

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made May 23 at 2015 2:46 AM

Maj Mike Sciales — Sat, 23 May 2015 02:46:20 -0400

That's a hard one. You have to know most vets are pretty much institutional guys. They like the sense of mission and belonging. I was just talking about this with another retired buddy (we both ride) and he believed it was mainly for the sense of camaraderie and order. Some want the additional elan of being in a "bad ass" outfit. Some want to revel in the memory of days gone by and wars long past done. Clubs don't have to be criminal organizations, but for those wishing to become outlaws there are clubs for that. There are combat vet clubs, "iron butt" endurance clubs - just tons of stuff. Find your happy space and join if you need to. There is also an awful lot of pleasure in riding alone.

Response by SSgt Marshall Franklin made May 23 at 2015 6:17 AM

SSgt Marshall Franklin — Sat, 23 May 2015 06:17:49 -0400

one of the original biker gangs the Hells Angels we're pilots from World War 2. after the war they started hanging out together and start up a gang called Hell's Angels using the same symbol was on the the bomber they were flying. and just evolve 20 days now. have a friend that is a vet and he also works for NASA and he belongs to the Hells Angels.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made May 23 at 2015 9:17 AM

PO3 John Jeter — Sat, 23 May 2015 09:17:26 -0400

Major problem with the shape of the question. One of the so-called "biker gangs" arrested in the Waco fracas was a group of bike riders who restore classic bikes and had simply arrived at that location as the action began. There are all sorts of motorcycle clubs out there, the overwhelming majority are no more "gang members" or "outlaws" than VFW or Legion members. What you should be referring to is what is called "the one percenters". In actual motorcycle parlance, there is a vast difference between a "Club", an "Organization", an "Association", and the aforementioned "one-percenters". A "Club" exists because the members dedicate themselves to fellow members. An "Organization" such as the Patriot Guard Riders" serves a function, primarily but not exclusively on motorcycles. An "Association" is a loose group of people who get together just to ride together.
On top of that, there is a major sour smell coming from the entire Waco event. Far too many facts and stories are not tallying up. These COC (Confederation of Clubs and independents) meetings have been held annually for years without incident.
Is anyone besides me curious about the fact that with 9 dead and 18 or 19 wounded, there was not a single Officer injured in the least, and no "innocent bystanders" hurt? There is a great deal that is NOT being told here.

Response by Capt Michael Berry made May 23 at 2015 9:52 AM

Capt Michael Berry — Sat, 23 May 2015 09:52:48 -0400

The underlying issue is that the attention the media is giving to the notion that many of these bikers are military vets, is merely the everpresent attempt to steer the "official" narrative toward demonizing veterans as enemies of the state, a threat posed by what the state deams liklely domestic terrorists.

Response by Cpl Joseph Lalley made May 23 at 2015 10:16 AM

Cpl Joseph Lalley — Sat, 23 May 2015 10:16:00 -0400

Sad part about the biker shoot out is it probably will come out that it was a set up by police. If there were so many veterans no cops were shot or even wounded. The majority of the brass was police brass. Dead bikers found beside running motorcycles. Makes you wonder the real truth

Response by SFC Jeff Gurchinoff made May 23 at 2015 10:26 AM

SFC Jeff Gurchinoff — Sat, 23 May 2015 10:26:13 -0400

A large surge of popularity was born out of bikes used as scout vehicles in the military. Many of the individuals on bikes were returning service members riding surplus equipment after the war. Much like the civilian fascination for the Jeep and now the Hummer.
This has been the case for the better part of 100 years that there has been a connection to bikes and the military. The clubs/gangs came about like any other clubs; like minded individuals like to hang out together.

Response by SPC Edward Tapper made May 23 at 2015 10:32 AM

SPC Edward Tapper — Sat, 23 May 2015 10:32:09 -0400

SFC Joseph James, you pose a great question. Most Motorcycle Clubs and Gangs were founded by veterans after WW2. Many had no work after returning home. The lifestyle and freedom of the road was appealing to them. The lack of jobs and money eventually led them into criminal behavior. Besides, wouldn't living on the edge with "Outlaws" be more exciting than cruising with the "In-laws"?

Response by SrA Jay Strauser made May 23 at 2015 11:32 AM

SrA Jay Strauser — Sat, 23 May 2015 11:32:59 -0400

I would like to hear from guys who have actually been in a motorcycle club. Patch holders.

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:01 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:01:14 -0400

I heard/read the same thing as well several times (that there seems to be a notable number of prior military members who have joined some of these "Outlaw" biker gangs)! I don't understand it! It makes absolutely no sense to me why they would join such an "Outlaw" biker gang. There are so many noteworthy other Biker Gangs that they could join, like, for example: Riding For Christ, or if you are not 'convinced' of the Christian aspect of a biker gang, then other biker gangs who ride against the abuse of children (I've seen them up north several times, but I don't remember their exact biker gang name), and so many other purposeful and meaningful biker gangs...! I don't understand it in the least!

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:16 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:16:51 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:17 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:17:02 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:17 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:17:22 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:17 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:17:33 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:23 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:23:49 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:23 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:23:59 -0400

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:28 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:28:44 -0400

On a bit more of an "international" note:
http://patriotsandpolitics.com/this-biker-gang-is-sick-of-isis-and-theyre-taking-matters-into-their-own-hands/

Response by SPC Ei McS made May 23 at 2015 12:35 PM

SPC Ei McS — Sat, 23 May 2015 12:35:50 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 1:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 May 2015 13:17:51 -0400

A lot of outlaw biker gangs trace their roots to military Veterans. The Hell's Angels (widely recognized as the "premier" biker gang that started it all) was formed by Vets needing the open road as their form of therapy. We band together, for our similarities and related values. Many started getting into illegal activities, such as drugs and organized crime, as a means to get the rush of war that they missed so much.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 23 at 2015 2:33 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 23 May 2015 14:33:49 -0400

The individuals spent years in a highly structured, hierarchical organization. These groups give them a way to somewhat get back into that type of environment. What can I say? We are institutionalized..

Response by SGT Michael Barberi made May 23 at 2015 4:56 PM

SGT Michael Barberi — Sat, 23 May 2015 16:56:11 -0400

the majority of bike groups were all started out as vet's you have to understand that all can't beblamed for all so some join groups to get what they had during the military comrades

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made May 23 at 2015 10:45 PM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Sat, 23 May 2015 22:45:22 -0400

brotherhood maybe?

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made May 24 at 2015 8:34 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Sun, 24 May 2015 08:34:29 -0400

Probably a lot of brother/sisterhood feelings -- those can be so powerful, as well they should be. It's part of what makes the military so special.

Response by SSgt Tyron Hinton made May 24 at 2015 12:06 PM

SSgt Tyron Hinton — Sun, 24 May 2015 12:06:56 -0400

First of all understand what "outlaw" bike CLUBS!! Are. They are not gangs!! Outlaw simply means they follow a code of ethics that outsiders are either unable or unwilling to understand... Do SOME individuals commit crimes yes..but as a whole they simply follow different ideas about how to be men. In today's messed up political correct world they call it as they see it.. As a veteran I respect and applaud that.

Response by SSgt Vincent DeRosa made May 24 at 2015 1:08 PM

SSgt Vincent DeRosa — Sun, 24 May 2015 13:08:59 -0400

The better question is; Why doesn't the military check for connections to drug cartel? There are individuals in supply positions that work for cartel and use their positions to traffic drugs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 1:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 13:50:23 -0400

It is important to note only 1% of bikers are outlaws. However, there are several motorcycle organization which are not Outlaws who's members are Law Abiding veterans. Black Horse Regiment Cavalry Mororcycles for instance is affiliated with the Black Horse Association, which affiliated it's self with the 11th ACR. Every American Legion has a Motorcycle arm known as legion riders. So does the VFW. Then there is the Patriot guard which is a mixture of Veterans, active Military, and Civilians. Motorcycle organizations have a paramilitary structure and a strong sense of comraderie and Brother Hood.
BFFB ( BlackHorse Forever, Forever Black Horse) Allons oh and the sense of Freedom on the back of your Iron Horse.

Response by SN Clint Beeler made May 24 at 2015 2:17 PM

SN Clint Beeler — Sun, 24 May 2015 14:17:15 -0400

Ive tried to post this 3 times now. The Origin of Motorcycle Clubs (or biker gangs as most call them now) were either WWI or WWII, I dont remember for sure which, Vets that operated the motorcycle and side car during the war that started riding together when they returned home. They started a Motorcycle Club to ride together, keep close etc. It wasn't until later years when newer members started joining and creating issues that they became "Biker Gangs". So in short answer, MC's have always been for Vets.

Response by Capt Vickie Adams made May 24 at 2015 4:15 PM

Capt Vickie Adams — Sun, 24 May 2015 16:15:22 -0400

As a VSO I see a lot of Vietnam vets. Many, in my opinion, are trying to regain their stolen youth or innocence. Perpetual youth.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 8:06 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 20:06:14 -0400

I would say most or almost all, but I doubt there is any data on that question that is available as outlaw motorcycle clubs tend to practice pretty good opsec/comsec.

Response by SSG Steve Van Erden made May 24 at 2015 10:19 PM

SSG Steve Van Erden — Sun, 24 May 2015 22:19:07 -0400

Many 1% MC have veterans. I am a member of the Patriots. In fact VP OF Chapter 2. If anyone has questions about forming a chapter. MSG me back. The Patriots, or PMC, is a National MC of members who are Vets, or members of Public Safety. I am both with many members who are also both. We are looking to expand more.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2015 11:45 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 May 2015 23:45:33 -0400

Comradery.

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 25 at 2015 1:27 AM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 25 May 2015 01:27:21 -0400

https://publicintelligence.net/ules-atf-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs-omgs-and-the-military-2010-report/

(U//LES) ATF Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs (OMGs) and the Military 2010 Report | Public Intelligence

In January 2009, the ATF Office of Strategic Intelligence and Information (OSII) disseminated the Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs (OMGs) and the Military report to

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made May 25 at 2015 4:23 AM

CPT Bruce Rodgers — Mon, 25 May 2015 04:23:35 -0400

They are a tight group of brothers, and many miss that sense of cohesiveness when they leave the service. Now I will not get into ethical issues, but most bikers are patriotic

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 25 at 2015 6:02 AM

PO1 John Miller — Mon, 25 May 2015 06:02:49 -0400

Question: How many people have formed their "opinion" of "OMG's" based on what they "learned" on "Sons Of Anarchy?"

Response by SPC David Paine made May 25 at 2015 8:50 AM

SPC David Paine — Mon, 25 May 2015 08:50:19 -0400

SFC James, Sorry to say but it has been my experience that the Vietnam Veteran feels as though his Country (civilians) have let them down, When they returned to this great nation from serving in Vietnam they expected parades, ceremonies, thank you's, even a simple nod of approval would have sufficed.

However, what they got was totally the opposite and degrading, they were spat on, called baby killers, murderers, some were shunned from their families, even abandoned by their home town communities, the very people they served to protect, no wonder they were/are angry.

I enlisted in 1976 after the war, so I was in Garrison the majority of the time and didn't get the treatment they got,, but I can still remember the looks on their faces and the anger they felt. To retreat was their only option, become loaners, bikers, as they felt as misfits in society.

I wish to extend a special Happy Memorial Day to all those who served, as well as all Americans.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 9:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 09:00:05 -0400

Some people have have ventured the idea of being Anti-government without the desire to spike their hair and blare subgenres of Punk Rock.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 9:02 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 09:02:14 -0400

Many men formed MC,s after WW2, for the thrill, it gave the rush they needed/craved after combat across the world. Non vets formed their MC,s for other reasons. Issue is to find the MC,s that just enjoy the ride.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made May 25 at 2015 10:30 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 25 May 2015 10:30:19 -0400

Because a fellow member of your chess club will not die for you if needed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 12:38 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 12:38:23 -0400

First and foremost these are Motorcycle Club's (MC) and not Gang's! Biker culture of today can best be attributed to like minded Vietnam era veterans who had a passion for riding and longed for the comraderie we shared as service member's.

Let me make it clear that I am an independent rider with friends in different MC's. I am no expert but have picked up on things with my limited experience with the motorcycle world. Remember that there is good and bad in every organization. Do not let this sway your opinion on biker's and MC's.

Remember as in the military we believe that there are two sides to every situation. The incident in Waco, Texas took place during a bi-monthly meeting known as the Confederation of Clubs and Independents.

This meeting is open to the public and is a venue used to get biker's throughout the state to disguss bikers rights, legislature, safety, upcoming charity events, give out awards and often times discus recent events.

The Waco police and other law enforcement agencies arrested many innocent people who were simply there to show their support to the biker community. From the news coverage I saw member's of Christian, family, veteran, support, and prodominant MC's.

Just because someone is in an MC does not make them a gang member. Implying such would be no different then me being labeled as such because I am a member of the Masonic Order and a long time Shriner who supports children's charities and loves my brother's!

Don't be so quick to judge that which you know little to nothing about!

Response by 1LT David Moeglein made May 25 at 2015 12:40 PM

1LT David Moeglein — Mon, 25 May 2015 12:40:04 -0400

I think it started with a bunch of veterans coming back from WWII. They were grateful for their serviceable Harley Davidson motorcycles that they relied on in war time. You throw what we now know to be PTSD into the mix, and you get a group of people who feel most comfortable with others that share their experience. I'm thinking that they equated having a properly maintained vehicle with staying alive. They found others that had the same passion, and a group was born. Humans are herd animals. Group dynamics take over, and some problematic behaviors emerge which may get members the label of "outlaw" from those who live their life by other values.

I kind of get some of what they are about. I used to be a battery motor officer. When I first layed eyes on my HMMWV in Korea, it had been deadlined for 3 months, and others had scavenged parts off of it to keep their HMMWVs going. I made it my mission to get it serviceable again as quickly as possible. My getting anal about vehicle maintenance later earned me the nickname "Lieutenant Dipstick."

My family has owned International Harvester trucks for 3 generations now. Today, I enjoy nothing more than working on an IHC vehicle with a friend. The sound of a finely tuned engine is music to my ears.

Response by PO1 Matthew Hotard made May 25 at 2015 1:58 PM

PO1 Matthew Hotard — Mon, 25 May 2015 13:58:03 -0400

If you are going to comment on outlaw groups at least show on in your picture not a picture of the Legacy Vets group who is nowhere near to being an outlaw group, many members are still active duty.

Response by SPC Stacey Smith (Dills) made May 25 at 2015 5:19 PM

SPC Stacey Smith (Dills) — Mon, 25 May 2015 17:19:16 -0400

I'm sure this has been said by other commenter but biker clubs ARE NOT GANGS!!!! They are clubs, associations and organizations. The 1%'s that are referred to as outlaws are just that, a small percentage of all bikers. We join for the brotherhood/sisterhood that comes with it. For the enjoyment of riding a motorcycle with other like minded individuals.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made May 25 at 2015 8:50 PM

SFC Collin McMillion — Mon, 25 May 2015 20:50:17 -0400

Have been with "Rolling Thunder" a long time, but believe that most if not all "outlaw gangs" have a few renegade soldiers who want, or need, violence to prove something to themselves. As vets and active duty military, the violence we engage in is supposed to prevent further outbreaks, not to start more!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 11:33 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 May 2015 23:33:14 -0400

I think for many it is the feeling of being lost and not fitting in with society. And they are looking for structure, bonding and brotherhood. I don't believe they want or intend to get caught up in the violence but with some it's what they know.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 2:02 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 May 2015 14:02:32 -0400

My question is why were their crimes labeled as organized crime? The ones in Texas were gangs aka THUGS.

Response by LCpl Rustin Poorboy made May 26 at 2015 6:36 PM

LCpl Rustin Poorboy — Tue, 26 May 2015 18:36:42 -0400

They do go out of their way to recruit ex-wife try for the combat training/experience.I think that they pin point them when they are down on their luck or have lost their way and are looking for the close knit bond they shared with brothers in arms even though I feel it's a facade used only for recruitment as there is no HONOR among thieves and outlaws.

Response by SSgt Anders Estes made May 27 at 2015 9:08 PM

SSgt Anders Estes — Wed, 27 May 2015 21:08:01 -0400

The original MC were WWII veterans, particularly pilots that wanted the same rush. The AAC supplied pilots with uppers, or speed, to keep them awake on long flights to enemy areas. When they came home they wanted the rush of being a pilot and wanted the speed that they could no longer get. So the MCs started making their own speed/meth and hid it in the motorcycle crank cases. They started calling it crank.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2015 12:02 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 May 2015 00:02:58 -0400

Started from WW11 I believe when they had Harleys overseas....learned em up and down...came home and their passion grew. Thats where modified bikes began. They loved the thrill of fast open road. As for outlaw gangs...i know more Vets in motorcycle gangs that do charity runs and ride for kids. Alot are churchmembers and ride for God. I guess it still holds true about vers coming bome and getting bikes because im an OEF VETERAN AND I LOVE TO BE ON A BIKE.

Response by TSgt Rik Reichert made May 29 at 2015 12:07 AM

TSgt Rik Reichert — Fri, 29 May 2015 00:07:14 -0400

The first clubs were created by veterans. They came home from the war and we're drawn to that brotherhood we all know and love! The term 1%er came from the fact that the American Motorcycle Association deemed that there was 1% of motorcyclists who partied just a little more then other clubs. It's no mystery that it was those clubs who were vets. I just read the following so I will quote it here... { "Look, there is no arguing that some members within that group are just plain bad. Hell, that happens in ANY select group of people, in my opinion. I support the 1%er lifestyle because whether we like them or not, 1%ers represent one of the last truly "free" men in America. Being at the "tip of the spear" if you will, 1%ers will be/ are the first group of men to feel the government's crack down on the concept of "freedom of expression". }

I am an American Legion Rider and in our day to day bussiness, I cross paths with many of these guys and they are usually at most of the same benifit functions and have hearts of gold. There are a few bad eggs that give all bikers (us included) a bad rap, but I like to think that our good deeds can out way the bad. But that's my take.

DB4L!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2015 10:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 May 2015 22:23:43 -0400

They aren't all bad. http://bacaworld.org/

Bikers Against Child Abuse International

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Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2015 8:32 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Jun 2015 08:32:59 -0400

Just like sports, the military has bad individuals and it would have happened if they were in the military or not.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 2 at 2015 8:41 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 02 Jun 2015 20:41:08 -0400

Because many Veterans can not understand civilians and how stab-in-the-back that civies can be, they find in the Bike Clubs the brotherhood and camaraderie that they had in the military.

I am not a biker, but I know a bunch and this is what they say. The terms are the same. Brothers, Family, Trust.

How many civilians can honestly say that they have Brothers at their jobs? That they look at co-workers as family...Let me answer for you...NONE. Vets are not comfortable in a stab-in-the-back society, yet we live in one...SAD...but all too true.

Response by SSG Paul Ellis made Jun 8 at 2015 7:44 PM

SSG Paul Ellis — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 19:44:05 -0400

I think they're filling the void in their lives after they left the military. You get used to a certain camaraderie that you just don't find in civilian life. They probably feel a sense of belonging in the biker gang and experience a certain sense of order reminiscent of military life.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 1:10 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 01:10:50 -0400

A couple things to point out about Waco. The city and law enforcement from what I've seen in the media have tried to clamp down on a lot of the information coming out about what exactly happened there. From what I've read it was supposed to be a meeting with motorcyclist interests in mind with not only alleged OMG's but also others such as Blue Knights and Christian based clubs. Who knows if we will ever find out what really happened?

As for the OP's question I think it's the camaraderie that comes with being a member of a club. Prior to going active duty I was involved in several off-road oriented or duel oriented clubs that were associated with racing I competed in throughout the northeast US. I always had a place to stay when away from home and someone to call if I need a hand. Even though I've been away for 15+ years I still stay in touch with these people much like the way I've stayed in touch with people that I've been stationed with in the military. Both consist of a lot of people that I'm proud to refer to as FAMILY.

Response by SP5 Joel McDargh made Jun 17 at 2015 10:37 AM

SP5 Joel McDargh — Wed, 17 Jun 2015 10:37:58 -0400

As a veteran who had become a member of an MC I saw it as a place to fit in and belong without being condemned or questioned about my military service. I was treated with more respect there than I received from our government, community, friends, and family. Though I no longer belong I still have many friends in the MC community and garner much respect from them as I do in return. They are my "other band of brothers".

Response by SGT Rick Ash made Jun 18 at 2015 1:57 PM

SGT Rick Ash — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:57:30 -0400

The majority of these individuals want to reconnect with their military friends and as the article states, MANY former Vets join these "Outlaw" biker gangs. This way, they get the best of both worlds.

Response by SSG Eric Eck made Jun 21 at 2015 7:01 PM

SSG Eric Eck — Sun, 21 Jun 2015 19:01:34 -0400

Same reason Leavenworth does.

Response by CPO Andy Carrillo, MS made Dec 24 at 2015 12:04 AM

CPO Andy Carrillo, MS — Thu, 24 Dec 2015 00:04:03 -0500

Tribalism runs deep in the human DNA and finds genetic expression in countless ways. Many are attracted to strength of numbers (pack mentality) and the anonymity which comes from wearing clothing that paradoxically rewards the belonging to a pack/gang/group.

Response by RJ (Robert) Kirschner, MBA made Jan 2 at 2016 12:34 PM

RJ (Robert) Kirschner, MBA — Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:34:23 -0500

Good question: Sometimes people gravitate to "Outlaw" Biker Gangs or just Gangs in general because of a void in their "Family" life and a need for approval. The Outlaw or criminal aspect speaks to their character, or lack of it.

Response by SFC William A. McCoy made Aug 31 at 2016 12:19 AM

SFC William A. McCoy — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:19:04 -0400

Vietnam Vets are not an outlaw gang,......at least in these parts. They are Brother and Sister bikers with a common cause for motorcycling and helping vets and the community.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2016 8:41 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 20:41:57 -0400

why do people continue to use what they read on FB as facts. 1. motorcycle clubs did not start because of WWII vets returning from the war. The clubs had been around for decades before that. Now like every organization during WWII they got quiet as everyone joined and supported the war effort. 2. there was no large war surplus of motorcycles coming back to the US, most of the WWII WLA were sent to other nations with most to Russia. 3. LEO dont like bike clubs because they take care of things themselves, and police themselves, that upsets the LEO because they dont get called everytime something happens. 4. LEO lable the clubs as gangs to justify the illegal harrasment against clubs, they like to say they busted a guy for having a joint or meth, so that means they are all drug dealers, they will stretch stories back decades to justify their harrasment. With that mentality then every group is a gang, there are peresidents, congressmen, LEO, military etc.... that has had a bad apple and been busted for way more then any biker has ever beeen tried for. Last I would like to toss out there that most on the street know that cop parties are packed full of drugs and prostitutes.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2016 4:28 PM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Oct 2016 16:28:53 -0400

1%er clubs were started by guys returning from WW2 that got disillusioned with the world. Incidentally, the only "Outlaw" club is the Outlaws. The others prefer to be called 1%ers.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2017 1:45 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Mar 2017 01:45:36 -0500

To use the word gangs, not all biker clubs are gangs. I wish people stop saying that. Its called motorcycle clubs, not gangs. Please correct the use of gangs. It is a brother/sisterhood and we network for fellowship. But you have OMG/1%ers. And yes some members may do criminal activity but that doesn't mean the whole crew are criminals. If that's the case anyone that surrounds themselves with 5 or more people are in a gang.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Mar 22 at 2018 9:20 PM

MSG David Johnson — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 21:20:15 -0400

That story is a bunch of shit, written by two women who have probably never been around a motorcycle in their lives. The use of the term Gang is extremely offensive as well, from July 2008 til February 2018 I was a member of the Legacy Vets MC. We are part of the club pictured as part of the story, Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets MC.
Reading crap like the trash written by those two twits just irritates the crap out of me, they will believe any garbage they are spoon fed.
They didn't even get the facts correct about the shooting in Waco.
Grrr

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2018 12:54 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 May 2018 12:54:09 -0400

It's a social club with like minded people. That's all there is to discuss. Many of us love being in the military but are in a rush to get out so we can own our own lives again, which brings on a different subject.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 1 at 2018 7:23 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 01 May 2018 19:23:22 -0400

Just what di you consider an "Outlaw MC Gang? I have ridden for 35+ yrs, member of Patriot Guard Riders and American Legion Riders, a former Rolling Thunder member and past Chapter President. Does that mean I'm in gangs?. Some are actually in gangs, cause when they came home-hated, ridiculed, gangs offered a safe place for them.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2018 3:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Nov 2018 15:20:54 -0500

As I understand it, the incident in Waco was a gathering of motorcycle riders and clubs. If memory serves, Combat Vets was one of the groups represented.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Jul 3 at 2021 8:27 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 20:27:07 -0400

They were POGs in the Military and still want to pretend they are hard

Response by SPC Jesse Davis made Jul 3 at 2021 8:54 PM

SPC Jesse Davis — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 20:54:03 -0400

One thing that the military illustrates is that the broader society is rather dysfunctional. It shouldn't be a surprise that paramilitary groups pick up vets.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Jul 4 at 2021 5:02 PM

LTC Jeff Shearer — Sun, 04 Jul 2021 17:02:13 -0400

I dont know the numbers but I do know that way back in the day they were formed by war vets. However, vets or not you got to be real careful about any organization that refers to itself as "Outlaw".