Why do pilots who are Colonels and above still maintain flying status by doing their required flying hours?

2015-03-30T21:03:24-04:00

This is a question that has always bugged me. It might be that I am just a dumb enlisted guy (guilty) but I have asked his question to many other airmen both enlisted and officer and no one has been able to give me a reasonable answer. My question is why do colonels and above that are pilots still maintain flying status by doing their required flying hours. It seems like like at least fiscal irresponsibility at worst fraud waste and abuse. Clearly a brigadier general isn't flying combat sorties or anything of the sort so he is either wasting money that could be spent elsewhere or cutting sorties for pilots that will actually need them. Again I might be short sighted but from my point of view this is a strange situation. Thanks for your responses!

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Mar 30 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-03-30T22:35:23-04:00

Interesting question SSgt Private RallyPoint Member. I think there are several contributing factors why you see many senior leaders still flying. Here are a few of my assumptions:

- Commanders who maintain a flying status have a unique bond with their unit and personnel. I would assume this is the same feeling in Army units where senior leaders still move within the formations on the ground and get a firsthand perspective on the issues their troops are encountering. This isn't an everyday occurrence, but still keeps them in touch with what matters to their soldiers.

- Having recent firsthand knowledge of the weapon systems we are employing will assist with making though calls down the road that will impact both the operators and support personnel.

- I personally want a commander and senior officers who are still in touch with their operational roots as I think it makes them better decision makers and candidates to lead units that still have a flying mission.

These folks might also have some useful insight: Maj Tyrone Frost Maj Private RallyPoint Member Col Private RallyPoint Member Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member Brig Gen John Michel Col Matthew Fritz

Note: I altered the discussion title slightly to highlight the main intent of your question. Hope that is okay with you.

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Mar 31 at 2015 8:27 PM

2015-03-31T20:27:25-04:00

It's easy, to be a pilot is a qualification like any other. What would happen if you allowed a qualification expire? You would probably have to do it over again. It's the same for a pilot. If they allow it to expire then they would have to do a bunch of extra training (like basic maneuvers, wingman, flight lead, section lead, division lead, air to ground, air to air, 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, red air blue air, in flight refuel) and they need to set an example for their junior officers.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2015 8:57 PM

2015-03-31T20:57:41-04:00

There are probably several reasons for this. First not all senior officers are on flight status. Typically the ones who still maintain currency are in the direct chain of command of a flying unit. Most staff officers at an HQ are not flying. In theory they do not need to do it for flight pay because after 15 years of continuous flight service they met their gates to earn permanent flight pay as long as they are medically cleared.

For personal reasons why one would continue could be the most obvious, to be hired by an air carrier after retirement. Another reason is to lead from the front. Tactics and procedures and equipment evolve. Those who are responsible for employment of air power will have a better understanding on the capabilities of the new systems even if it is just a fam ride. In heavy aircraft they are no longer aircraft commanders and typically fly with an experienced instructor pilot. In fighters they are not usually lead anymore. Cant attest to that 100% however when I flew tankers it seemed like the senior officer was always number 2 on my wing .
Most O-6's that are not the ops group commander do not fly as much as they have other duties to deal with like overseeing the other groups. It was more common to see the OG and vice fly more than the wing king. Congress actually mandates that GO's do not fly without an instructor pilot. This is due to GO's being involved in several fatal mishaps in history. We are not paying GO's to be line pilots, but to lead the larger organizations. Usually you would only see the O6 fly once every 60 days or so when I flew tankers. In heavies they usually only get a partial executive qualification in the plane that basically makes them competent to run checklists for the IP in an emergency as well as takeoff and land under IP supervision.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Mar 31 at 2015 9:15 PM

2015-03-31T21:15:29-04:00

From my personal experience, I have see the Col/GO level folks fly combat sorties.

Response by SMSgt Thomas V. made Mar 31 at 2015 9:21 PM

2015-03-31T21:21:44-04:00

I am an enlisted aviator and wondered that myself when I began my career. At my current point in my own career the same could be asked me, why I still fly? The best reason, leadership!! Plainly put real leaders don't lead from behind a desk. If you did not see your leaders "out there" observing what is happening for themselves how else could a "leader" identify positive or negative trends and effectively lead an organization and maintain good order and discipline.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Mar 31 at 2015 9:28 PM

2015-03-31T21:28:59-04:00

Why not? If they love to fly, go for it. My former boss hasn't flown since he was an O6 and he missed it. He took command of an MP Bde then got his star so he was no longer in a flight status slot.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Apr 1 at 2015 10:07 AM

2015-04-01T10:07:02-04:00

There are a couple reasons, many of which have been discussed here already.... the leadership aspect. I feel that there is 1 other PRIMARY reason above and beyond the leadership aspect..... RETIREMENT. This is more true for those that fly heavies (cargo aircraft). Once they retire, they are current with their fly certifications, especially with multi-engine air frames. Many will go to civilian/commercial aircraft. Regardless of flying for FedEx, UPS, Delta, American Airlines, Et. Al.... If they come out of the Air Force with CURRENT fly certifications, there will be fewer hoops to jump to get a job flying for someone. Fighter pilots will need to get certification on multi-engine aircraft, but they will still come out current on many aspects of flying (instruments, etc). Not only that, but many fliers just like to fly.....

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2015 4:32 AM

2015-04-02T04:32:40-04:00

As a Company Commander I hate how much time I have to spend behind my desk. I would much rather be out on the ground with my men. I would imagine your pilots experience a similar sentiment.

I also think your flag Officers fly for the same reason that senior Armor Officers still qualify with their tank. They still need to have an understanding of their job and maintain a basic level of proficiency. We're still Soldiers, regardless of how much rank we wear. Furthermore, how can a senior Officer plan a battle if they don't understand their craft at the tactical level? I think if we were to see another conflict of WWII size you would be surprised how many flag officers would be flying combat sorties. I don't have enough visibility of the current wars to know if this is happening currently.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2015 9:19 PM

2015-04-05T21:19:42-04:00

A leaders job is to be knowledgeable in their field (either know the answer or be able to find it). Part of staying current and knowledgeable is keeping up on your skills. Things are always changing with technology (in aviation, medicine, etc). The leader must stay current to support those he leads. If my NCOs let their EMT certifications expire and ignored continuing education then they couldn't do their jobs and their superiors nor subordinates could rely on them to do their job to the standard that they have set.

Response by Col Matthew Fritz made Apr 5 at 2015 9:41 PM

2015-04-05T21:41:13-04:00

Happy to weigh in, Brandon. Without a doubt, there is a responsibility of commanders to be an active part of the mission they lead. As well, senior leaders who are also rated aviators have a responsibility to maintain their aeronautical rating, a responsibility that entails flying and logging requisite hours and qualification commensurate with their skill level. Believe it or not, even Colonels and Generals can offer some wisdom and air-sense to the members of their crew or flight based upon a perspective gained through years of flying and experience ;)

I hope this helps!

Response by SPC David S. made Apr 6 at 2015 2:04 PM

2015-04-06T14:04:31-04:00

You may be surprised to find out as recently as OEF and OIF a General was flying combat missions. Major General H.D. "Jake" Polumbo Jr. flew the U-2S in combat and completed 21 operational U-2 missions in Operations Enduring and Iraqi Freedom. The General also flew combat missions in the MC-12W weapon system during Operation Enduring Freedom.

Response by SPC David S. made Apr 6 at 2015 2:05 PM

2015-04-06T14:05:39-04:00

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 6 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-04-06T19:57:56-04:00

That Air Medal with V device and DFC isn't gonna award itself...lol.

My old SCO (Squadron Commander) was a Kiowa man. Some SCO's have mixed units including 3 different airframes. They had to be rated in Apaches according to the MToE. Call it coincidence, but every LTC I ever in the CAV that was dual rated got their bird upon getting out of combat. My old 2/17 Kiowa driving SCO is now a 3-star General (no pressure there Cadet McConville...lol). Each one of them left Iraq and Afghanistan with a DFC........call that coincidence too. It pays off to get flight time in a war zone.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2015 8:09 PM

2015-04-06T20:09:42-04:00

I think it's simpler, if you could fly, wouldn't you?

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 22 at 2015 10:33 PM

2015-04-22T22:33:30-04:00

Flying slots are very limited above O4. Normally O5 and O6 flying slots are reserved for officers who command or direct pilots or aircrews. Your Wing Commander is probably an example. These senior officers fly for the same reasons your senior NCOs are visiting your work area. They need to be out in the operation to see what's going on. They interact with ops and support personnel. It keeps them in touch with the real world.

The principle is similar for GOs. Commanders and A3 type GOs in flying organizations, like a NAF, have a need to get out from behind the desk and update their reality.

Flying hours are closely managed. The number of training hours allotted to GOs was controlled at the MAJCOM level when I was on active duty.

The above in no way denies that flying can be enjoyable regardless of rank. It's always better than sitting in an office.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 22 at 2015 11:29 PM

2015-04-22T23:29:54-04:00

You are talking logic and reason my friend. Should have buried that when you swore in at MEPs.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 22 at 2015 11:45 PM

2015-04-22T23:45:56-04:00

As a Soldier, and non-aviator, I would say it is a "Lead By Example" thing. Similar to an Army Senior Leader (Colonel, BG, MG, LTG) being on jump (paid parachutist) status...

Neither is necessary, nor does it make sense.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 11:59 PM

2015-04-22T23:59:05-04:00

For those flying fighters, the experience they have is very useful to those junior to them. We are getting to the time where it is the senior leaders who have the air to air experiences. There were not many Iraqi fighters after the first little bit of OIF. Besides, ACM is a perishable skill. It relies heavily on timing.

Response by SPC John Levine made Apr 23 at 2015 8:34 AM

2015-04-23T08:34:15-04:00

I know in my experiences it easier or at least more motivating to take orders from so eine who's at least qualified to do the job themselves. I am not saying that a high level officer has earned everything they've achieved and could probably do the job with their eyes closed but it still feels good to know that your superiors could and still can do what they are asking you to do.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 3:25 AM

2016-03-04T03:25:56-05:00

As others have said here... It's about leading from the front and making decisions "fighting" one's unit from the cockpit. Army Aviation struggles with this SO much due to the fact that commissioned aviators are almost "expected" to not be as proficient as the warrant officers they lead. It's a dangerous line of thought that I've always rejected. As commissioned aviators, I believe it's our responsibility to work twice as hard to be just as good as a warrant officer behind the controls and be able to fight and lead the unit in the cockpit. That requires concentrated effort as a junior officer and to continue to fight for any flight time possible as one progresses through the ranks.

Response by Col Tommy Phelps made Nov 1 at 2017 4:36 PM

2017-11-01T16:36:15-04:00

Actually, in the fighter wings, the commanders do indeed fly combat missions. We even lost a BG to enemy fire during Vietnam. Col Robin Olds flew combat sorties in Vietnam and had four kills. There is an array of reasons. Being a fighter pilot myself, I’d say ego drives a lot of it. And skills don’t fade away as you get older...most times being smart will trump actual hand skills. And there’s the flight pay thing...

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Mar 18 at 2018 1:08 PM

2018-03-18T13:08:01-04:00

I would toss my vote with the majority who cite the necessity of maintaining awareness of the material and operational situations that face the front line pilots to allow for realistic decisions as their commander. I would minimize the idea of maintaining currency strictly for post military positions in commercial aviation; there are many more opportunities for senior officers in other areas than commercial flight. Additionally, the fact that most pilots like to fly enters the picture. I know my day was a lot better after an opportunity to strap an aircraft on.

Response by CW5 John M. made Mar 18 at 2018 9:16 PM

2018-03-18T21:16:43-04:00

I’ve been out for 20 yrs, so my answer may be dated or Army specific. I knew a COL who went to flight school with my flight class (George S. Patton IV). I flew Generals who wore wings. I never had a problem with the fact that senior officers were pilots. To me it meant that they had some “skin in the game”, and could better relate to the role and proper uses of aviation. I have also flown with and under Commanders who had NO aviation experience, and they displayed some serious flaws in the use of aviation assets...... Few senior ranking pilots, if any, did anything more than act as a co-pilot, simply b/c their experience levels (at best) were at a WO1/2LT level. Nor would they normally be current pilots. Most Generals flew with Instructor Pilots so they could get “logged” time, perhaps at P level, rather than log CP - IF they could even log. Until the invention of ACIP, they likely did not get flight pay. After ACIP came into existence, they would get a certain amount of flight pay which was time (year) based, on years of flying status. All Commissioned Officer (RLO) pilot’s started actually loosing percentages of flight pay on a sliding scale - as the years went up, the pay went down - almost down to a pittance. This presumedly was due to the fact that senior Commissioned pilots had plenty of other duties.... Only the Warrant flight pay kept going up, and maxed out for their entire career.