Why do so many MSGs insist on being addressed as Master Sergeant?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:56:03 -0400

AR 600-20 is clear. The title of address for a MSG is "Sergeant." My personal opinion is that the majority of MSGs that insist on it do so because of their ego. The remainder is just ignorance.

EDIT: There have been a lot of responses from folks of various services, so let me make it clear (if it wasn't already) that this question pertains to Master Sergeants in the United States Army. I don't hold any grudge with people who address them as "Master Sergeant" out of respect. I usually just make a gentle correction and move on. My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so. Many responses are some variation of "They've earned it" but that doesn't hold much water with me. By the time an NCO makes MSG, they should be secure enough in their career and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 12 at 2021 10:11 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:11:51 -0400

You are probably correct though you can't say for certain without asking them all.
You have a long project ahead of you if you want to thoroughly research this issue.
I am sure that there are most likely better things for a MSG to do with their time.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 12 at 2021 10:21 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:21:41 -0400

I'll admit, I refer to MSG's as "Master Sergeants", SSG's as "Staff Sergeant", etc... I suspect people like me spoil them.
I know the regulatory/doctrinal answer, but I also know that using the full rank is certainly not forbidden, and I don't like the Army's policy on form of address for NCO's.
To me it's more respectful to use full rank. So I do.
I don't expect anyone else to do it though. I know the doctrinal answer is just SGT. I enforce doctrine, not my preferences.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 10:25 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:25:22 -0400

Because they feel entitled would be my guess. I always called them Sergeant...especially if it upset them.

Response by 1SG Jacob Brannan made Jul 12 at 2021 10:35 AM

1SG Jacob Brannan — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:35:54 -0400

Go hang out in USAREC for 5 minutes and you'll hear people calling MSG's "TOP" for some unknown reason, many of which never even wore a diamond. Incredibly dumb and drove me insane.

Response by MSG Stan Hutchison made Jul 12 at 2021 10:38 AM

MSG Stan Hutchison — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:38:58 -0400

As a retired MSG, I don't care what you call me. Never did. Most of my troops called me Sargn't Hutch.
I have been called many things, some not so nice.

Call me anything, just call me in time for beer-call.

Response by CSM Carlson C. made Jul 12 at 2021 11:23 AM

CSM Carlson C. — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:23:57 -0400

When I first made MSG, it was other Soldiers that insisted on saying, "Master Sergeant". I was constantly correcting individuals and it became annoying. But I realized that from those Soldiers towards me was a sign of respect. I would never require anyone to call me "Master Sergeant", but in that respect I think is one of the ways traditions change. Any MSG that requires people to call them "Master Sergeant", except in the situation of differentiation, is in the wrong and is projecting an ego trip. However, from the bottom up when Soldiers say "Master Sergeant Such-n-such", from my experience it has been a sign of respect. If you wanna be called Master Sergeant on a regular, join the Marines. Cause you don't call a Staff Sergeant, "Sergeant", and you don't call a Master Gunnery Sergeant, "Sergeant" in the Marines, their culture is different. So until the Army culture changes, AR 600-20 is clear, so fold your feelings up, put 'em in your rucksack and keep it moving.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 11:31 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:31:47 -0400

What MSG asks to be called Master Sergeant? I was sometimes referred to as that for some reason , but I never saw or heard of another MSG telling anyone to call them that .

Anyone who has been in long enough to make MSG knows what the correct title and how to address a MSG is.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jul 12 at 2021 11:41 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:41:00 -0400

That's how I always addressed them, unlessI was interducing them to my wife or new recruits 1SG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jul 12 at 2021 11:56 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:56:37 -0400

It's the rank. I don't fault them for it but in the Marine Corps that's business as usual. I could see how it would ruffle feathers in the Army because it is going against the grain. On our side of the fence it always blew our minds that everyone in the Army was a Sgt. Many times I had a good chuckle when a cocky Spc would call a GySgt sarge or Sgt. Oh good times were had by all. Except for the Spc that is.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 12:46 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:46:17 -0400

When I was promoted to Master Sergeant, I was assigned to an activated OC/T Battalion under First Army. Almost everyone who worked in the building was a Sergeant or an officer, many of the NCOs were E-6 or E-7. Master Sergeants were usually the Highest NCO rank in the building and at the MOB stations or training areas. I was called MSG (or top) frequently to distinguish me from every other Sergeant standing within hearing range.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 12:55 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:55:52 -0400

Sergeant is the appropriate but I personally call them Master Sergeant and have been doing so for almost 19 years and will continue to but that’s a personal choice.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Jul 12 at 2021 1:43 PM

MSG Greg Kelly — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:43:27 -0400

they may insist but no one has to. There is no precedence for addressing a MSG in the complete title. The Title of Sergeant is all that is required and no can force anyone other wise. Sounds like some MSG's have penis envy or have to have their Egos stroked. I call them Sergeant just piss them off.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jul 12 at 2021 1:51 PM

COL John McClellan — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:51:21 -0400

The way I viewed this over 28 years of active service was that it's a "custom & tradition" of military service (at least in the Army,) borne of respect for those who obtained this rank, rather than some kind of requirement. Cadets are taught that it is all together proper to say "Master Sergeant."

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 2:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:03:33 -0400

In AIT I said “good morning Sergeant” to the 1SG. He wasn’t as jovial most here.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jul 12 at 2021 2:21 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:21:51 -0400

Back in the way way back our motor sergeant was a MSG who insisted on "Master Sergeant." His was PURE ego. He actually custom made his MSG rank (completely outside of AR 670-1 authorizations) but supergluing 2 MSG pin-on ranks and the cutting/filing the extra set of pins. Then he M-Nu'd the results for a pin-on rank that was double thick just to make sure everypne could see it.

I was a young PFC at the time. I did a lot of push-ups for calling him "Sergeant." I did even more when I showed him in black and white where he was wrong. And still more when I showed him the part of 670-1 that refered to his rank.

He not only KNEW he was wrong, he flaunted it and was proud of it.

Still never refered to him as "Master Sergeant," though, at least not to his face.

Response by SFC Jeremy Boyd made Jul 12 at 2021 2:47 PM

SFC Jeremy Boyd — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:47:42 -0400

I often found myself addressing any MSG during my time in as Master Sergeant because it seemed strange to me that the pay grade of E-8 had two ranks associated with it, yet only 1SG had the distinction of being addressed in its entirety. Looking back now it seems silly, since I never went to that extreme when addressing a SGM versus a CSM. All I can say is that every MSG I ever worked with had already been a 1SG prior to when I met them, so for me it felt right to say the entire name of the rank out loud, and complied whenever any MSG asked me to just address them as Sergeant instead of the whole rank. I also never encountered one in my 20+ years who demanded that their rank be addressed in its entirety.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 3:06 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:06:31 -0400

I’ve never met one that was insistent.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jul 12 at 2021 3:40 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:40:24 -0400

Back in the day I hadn't a clue how to Address MSG's either, Hell I was taught early on to avoid Capt's and above and MSG's and above. If you have time to shoot the breeze with one you have to much time on your hands. A wise CSM Told me to address SGT, SGG, SFC and MSG as Sergeant unless you are discussing actual rank with someone. As a MSG I spent more time telling folks to call me Sergeant. When I was selected to be a 1SG, I answered to First Shirt, Top, 1SG and OH GOD here he comes run. From the day I was promoted to E-8 I spent 3 years as an MSG to include 1 year as an Acting BN CSM , the other 9 years as a 1SG, I am retired as a 1SG but I answer to anything because I am retired and not clinging to the past plus I am being paid no matter what my title was. I addressed SGM's /CSM's as Sergeant Major to their faces and sometimes SMAGE when I had a running start.
My Ego was dead on arrival with my hopes and dreams when I made SGT the first time :) .

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 12 at 2021 5:16 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 17:16:05 -0400

I would refer to certain MSGs as "Master Sgt" as a sign of respect for the individual because I felt they had earned it. For others, I simply referred to them as "Sgt" mainly because I knew it royally pissed them off and there was nothing they could do about it so long as I observed proper C&C.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Jul 12 at 2021 6:18 PM

MAJ Ronnie Reams — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 18:18:49 -0400

Never called them anything but Sarge or Sergeant as EM or O.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 7:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:50:47 -0400

Until the reg changes, they’re a sergeant. Period.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2021 8:03 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:03:10 -0400

For any MSG that insisted on being called master sergeant, just because they are a holes. MHO

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Jul 12 at 2021 8:36 PM

Cpl Vic Burk — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:36:50 -0400

I wouldn't be surprise if it weren't an ego thing especially when they first earn the rank. After the newness passes most probably would be OK with just Sergeant. Unless otherwise directed I would call them "Master Sergeant" mainly as a sign of respect for their rank. In the Marines the usual rank address was "Top" [last name] and the same "Top" address was applied to Master Gunnery Sergeant.

Response by MSG Ron Radar made Jul 12 at 2021 8:45 PM

MSG Ron Radar — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 20:45:51 -0400

I always wondered that myself . I was a MSG for 11 years and was as far as I remember just called Sarge /Top ( Except when I was a D.I. ...LOL ) which was just fine with me ! I do remember a few with ramrods up their kister who demanded the full title and they were NOT well liked or respected due to their attitudes . The military is more than just ranks , you have to be a people person as well and never forget that one of your main functions is to TEACH ! It's hard to teach if those you're trying to instruct feel ostracized because of your attitude and fear of you . I'm not saying you're supposed to make everyone your beer buddy or go out of your way and relax the rules and protocols to the point that you lose control of your subordinates but there's no way you need to be a prick all the time either . There's a level of respect that goes with each rank and most of those serving know the boundaries and the proper tone to set with those above and below them in rank . The main thing I miss from being in is the respect we all show each other regardless of rank , we all knew our jobs and we knew those we served with were still learning /teaching the new guys so everyone was on the same page . I say Learning/teaching because we NEVER stop learning how to do our jobs better . I'm not saying there was no back stabbing while in but compared to the civilian job market we were ALL trusted saint's by comparison ! I know that the two are very separate but the amount of insanity and hate that civilian jobs have going on makes me wonder just how the heck we EVER got to be a first world Nation ! It's no wonder that our Government is so screwed up , there's no way to make anyone in this Nation happy unless THEY'RE the boss ( and then they still wouldn't be happy because no one would do everything they wanted them to.....LMAO ) . It's a Mad,Mad,Mad world out there and thank God there's the military to bring some stability into our lives ...... ! AATW

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Jul 13 at 2021 12:16 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 00:16:19 -0400

I was in formation for a crusty old Master Sergeant getting promoted to Master Gunnery Sergeant. The colonel performing the ceremony had a long history with the Master Sergeant and was the first to shake his hand after pinning on the rank. His comments to the promotee were something along the line of, "Dang Top, I have been calling you Top for so long, now what will I call you?". The newly promoted Master Gunnery Sergeant replied, "Hell sir, from here on out you can call me 'Tippy Top'".

Response by SGT Clarence Gilbert made Jul 13 at 2021 12:37 AM

SGT Clarence Gilbert — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 00:37:58 -0400

This is the way....

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 13 at 2021 2:08 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 02:08:33 -0400

I never called a MSG anything but "Sergeant" even when directly told to by MSG's. The regulation is clear, and defined. You shall be addressed as "Sergeant" until Command places special trust and confidence in your ability to lead a Company and makes you a 1SG.

Response by SFC Kathy Pepper made Jul 13 at 2021 3:22 AM

SFC Kathy Pepper — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 03:22:12 -0400

In basic training, our drill sergeants taught us that there are three sergeants: Sergeant, First Sergeant, and Sergeant Major. I HATED being called “Staff Sergeant”; the few people I let get away with it were Marines. The only time I referred to someone by specific rank was when there were two sergeants with the same last name. By the way, there is also only one private; calling someone “PFC” is merely a courtesy.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2021 9:10 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:10:46 -0400

For what ever reason, my brain automatically makes me say Master Sergeant when I'm speaking with one.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Jul 13 at 2021 9:33 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:33:18 -0400

I still like the Marine way better. There are differences in duties and responsibilities between E-5 and E-8, why not acknowledge that and call them by the proper and full rank?
When they make me Sec Def, look for that change :^).

Response by SSgt Cynthia Hamilton made Jul 13 at 2021 11:09 PM

SSgt Cynthia Hamilton — Tue, 13 Jul 2021 23:09:55 -0400

Ego

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 14 at 2021 4:27 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:27:28 -0400

SSGT was addressed by rank, Gunny was always that, not a one expected be addressed any differently, unless you were in the shit, then it was Gunnery Sgt, above that I always addressed by rank, except Master Sgt was Top, 1st Sgt by rank, SGT Major/ Master Gunnery obviously by rank. None had any ego is was just the way it was, they deserved the respect imo. One exception was our shop NCOIC was a MasterGuns and we called him Top.
.

Response by 1SG Ronald Rieck made Jul 14 at 2021 4:49 PM

1SG Ronald Rieck — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 16:49:02 -0400

I never knew this to be an issue, and I was an E-8, both a Master Sergeant and a First Sergeant for over five years. When an E-8 retires, they retire as a SGT, not a 1SG...That's their title while in the position

Response by SSG Michael Montoya made Jul 14 at 2021 5:48 PM

SSG Michael Montoya — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 17:48:11 -0400

I am pretty sure other branches do the same kind of stuff. AF and their TechSGT, Marines's and their GunnerySGT....I never had a problem with that when we did anything that involved dealing with other branches (it was mostly just amusing asking someone of the same grade in another branch to do it.) In the Army though it's pretty straightforward....and anyone who insists on being called Master Sergeant has some kind of inferiority complex.

Response by CSM Colin Patterson made Jul 14 at 2021 6:12 PM

CSM Colin Patterson — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 18:12:18 -0400

The people who had a problem calling master sergeants by their rank and are seniors. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of bashing the MSG. How about recommending to SMA that the Army does like other branches and change their policy to call everyone by their specific rank. You clowns call corporals, and specialists by their rank. But have a problem calling a MSG by his rank. You are the ones with the egos.

Response by CW3 George Fitzgerald made Jul 14 at 2021 6:59 PM

CW3 George Fitzgerald — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 18:59:37 -0400

Probably for the same reason SFC wants to be called Sergeant First Class and Staff Sergeants, Staff Sergeants. I never made a big deal of it when i was one.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Jul 15 at 2021 6:24 AM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 06:24:28 -0400

Anyone earning promotions senior to the first “retirement rank” is not a shitbird just hanging around to get their 20 in, and should be addressed by their rank.

This is normal in the Corps. How about the rest of you getting your shit together...

Response by SGM Miguel Espinoza made Jul 15 at 2021 9:38 AM

SGM Miguel Espinoza — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:38:18 -0400

Master Sergeant is what it should be , Sergeant is ok both are correct. I’ve never cared which was used but I never demanded. There are a lot of NCOs with egos that need that reassurance for themselves.

Response by CSM David Porterfield made Jul 15 at 2021 10:24 AM

CSM David Porterfield — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 10:24:16 -0400

Calling someone doesn't by their actual rank doesn't bother me, what I hate is when people refer to each other by pay grade which is a dumb Army thing. I hate hearing "go ask that E-6" or I told the "E-5" or "she got promoted to E-8" etc... We should use Sergeant or actual rank not someone's pay grade. Most of my career that was a pet peeve of mine, oh and Sergeants who can't spell Sergeant.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2021 7:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 19:37:33 -0400

I always called MSG: master sergeant. Kind of like I called 1SG first sergeant and SGM sergeant major. Respect for the rank they earned.

Response by MSG (Retired) Army made Jul 16 at 2021 2:02 AM

MSG (Retired) Army — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 02:02:27 -0400

Having served as a 1SG, I have never met a MSG who demands to be called Master Sergeant. As you stated that it is your opinion that it is ego and ignorance, while that may be true for a small percentage of MSG’s who never had the privilege of serving in the position of 1SG. Considering that when a 1SG who is no longer serving in a 1SG position that they are supposed to revert their rank to MSG according to the regulation. So when I see all these E-8s that are no longer serving in a 1SG position why do they still have the lozenge inside their chevrons and rockers? I think that is egotistical and sets a bad precedent as many Soldiers do what they see instead of what the regulation states. However, the Army is complicit in such by not properly ensuring that assignment orders are updated properly. I shouldn’t see a bunch of retired 1SGs running around! They obviously aren’t serving in a 1SG position.

Response by SFC R. Lee Linebarger made Jul 16 at 2021 8:20 AM

SFC R. Lee Linebarger — Fri, 16 Jul 2021 08:20:04 -0400

When I was a recruiter, oh so many years ago, had a MEPS senior Guidance counselor that demanded it.....he was an a$$hat to say the least. I politely informed him of prtocol and the regulation, upon which I hung up the phone.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2021 3:14 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:14:46 -0400

I have never requested that from anyone that I was senior to. As long as it's not disrespectful I don't really care. Although I think some say it out of respect. I've had people call me "Top" or "1SG" even after they knew I was no longer a First Sergeant. Anyone who requests that has a problem.

Response by 1SG Christian Chenard made Jul 18 at 2021 7:57 PM

1SG Christian Chenard — Sun, 18 Jul 2021 19:57:42 -0400

AR-600-20 notwithstanding, General Patton was once asked: which rank was the most difficult in the army to perform. He replied Master Sergeant. Why ? asked the other, and Patton said, “because we demand and expect so much from them”.
I’ve sometimes wondered why the regulation is so. After all a colonel has only been promoted 5 times. A Master Sergeant has been recognized and promoted 7 times.
I advised 0-6s thru 0-10s the last 21 years of my 37 years of service. Most GOs addressed me as Top or 1SG, occasionally as Master sergeant. I earned my Master sergeanthood.
And that’s my two cents.

Response by MSG Bob S made Jul 20 at 2021 3:37 PM

MSG Bob S — Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:37:49 -0400

Insisting on it is a pure ego thing by the MSG. That being said that was also referred to as Master Sergeant and didn’t correct the individual, but I never required it. Between the ranks of PV1 to MSG I personally referred to an MSG as Master Sergeant outside of my team.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2021 5:29 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Jul 2021 17:29:11 -0400

I called everyone by there full rank just out of respect. They earned the rank and it doesn't hurt to use it.

I also would never get upset if someone greeted me as 1SG because they couldn't see my star.

That being said, Sarge is never acceptable.

Response by MSG Jd Cotham made Jul 22 at 2021 8:08 PM

MSG Jd Cotham — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 20:08:34 -0400

Yada Yada Yada what pettyness.

Response by Sgt Stephen Brown made Jul 26 at 2021 7:47 PM

Sgt Stephen Brown — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 19:47:50 -0400

It’s respect for the rank. They have spent years too obtain the strips and should be addressed as such. Ego has nothing to do with it. They are in a leadership roll above a Sgt E-5, E6 and E7 and should be addressed by their rank.

Response by MSG Raymond Robinson made Jul 27 at 2021 11:15 PM

MSG Raymond Robinson — Tue, 27 Jul 2021 23:15:22 -0400

In the Army there are only 4 forms of address for an NCO; Corporal, Sergeant, 1st Sergeant and Sergeant Major. The Airforce is a little different with the E-9 rank being called "Chief".

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2021 10:14 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jul 2021 22:14:21 -0400

I always addressed MSGs as Master Sergeant up to and including when I was a SFC. I was just trying to show a little more respect. Now everybody addresses me as Master Sergeant. I appreciate the gesture, but I do NOT expect it. The regs call for "Sergeant", that's all I have coming.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2021 9:12 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 09:12:15 -0400

Regulation states an E8 can be regarded as Sergeant unless they are in a 1SG position or have a diamond. Master Sergeant is the rank, we all know those who made that MSG that feel they need the title. Some need to know that have the rank because they are poor leaders others are on the same boat as I earned my rank if you don't know me you should refer to me by rank. Bottom line give respect to the rank not the person. Also remember you represent your past NCOs, peers, and leaders.

Response by MSG Terry Lingle made Jul 29 at 2021 11:23 AM

MSG Terry Lingle — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:23:14 -0400

I never expected nor demanded anything other than “sergeant,” the proper title of address according to Army Regulations at the time of my service. I only had one soldier address me as “master sergeant” and I always felt (perhaps wrongly) that he was being condescending. It wasn’t important enough to me to correct him.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2021 10:30 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:30:59 -0400

I went to Basic and AIT back in 1992. We addressed E-8’s as “Master Sergeant.” Likely this may vary around in the Army where it happens in some fields and not in others.

Response by MSG Johancharles Boers made Aug 4 at 2021 12:18 AM

MSG Johancharles Boers — Wed, 04 Aug 2021 00:18:45 -0400

Yes, you are right in the Army it is just Sergeant. Some MSG don’t ask to be called MSG, but Sergeant. However some of their troops may do it out respect for them as a person. Also I know the Marines address folks by their full rank. I’m not sure about the other services (Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and now the Space Force) if they or don’t.

Response by MGySgt Sal Sgroi made Aug 6 at 2021 10:15 AM

MGySgt Sal Sgroi — Fri, 06 Aug 2021 10:15:34 -0400

It is not ego, it is their rank. They earned it. It drove me crazy when I was called Sarge. I earned my rank and was proud of that so call me Master Sergeant or 1st Sergeant. In my case Master Gunnery Sergeant.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Aug 9 at 2021 12:05 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 12:05:34 -0400

Really? I've never experienced that. I simply called MSGs 'Master Sergeant' out of respect for what they'd achieve. Most times, they would just say to me, "Call me Sergeant. I don't have a diamond or a star."

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 9 at 2021 4:37 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 16:37:46 -0400

I've heard the way to address sergeants has changed, though nothing officially that I heard. We always referred to ALL levels of sergeants, as "Sergeant XYZ," except for 1SG's and Sergeants Major and CSM's. I do recall when I was attached to the Marines, they used the full title, i.e., "Staff Sergeant, Master Sergeant," etc.

Response by SFC Edward Ermey made Aug 9 at 2021 6:51 PM

SFC Edward Ermey — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 18:51:00 -0400

In most cases it is ego.
Those that want that, feel the need for more attention, and think themselves more important than other NCO's of their grade.
Two important sayings instilled into me by senior NCO's during my time in the Army.
1 I can dress up a chimp and make him look good, but that does not make him worth a damn.
2 Don't ask or tell anyone bellow you to do something that you are not willing to do yourself.

Response by PO3 Edward Riddle made Aug 9 at 2021 9:59 PM

PO3 Edward Riddle — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 21:59:38 -0400

It's called a God-Like Complex.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 10 at 2021 6:52 AM

SSG Edward Tilton — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 06:52:13 -0400

People want to call them TOP. My field went from FDC Chief E-7 to Operations Sgt, a Master Sgt E-8. Sounded good but in reality there were Officers dumping on your desk all day., Better off out in the woods as an E-6.

Response by SFC William Linnell made Aug 10 at 2021 8:09 AM

SFC William Linnell — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:09:05 -0400

Not to bust on your ego as 1SG, I have always felt that it should be. The US Army was stuck in the old British Hierarchy which was the only form of military they knew and it's kept alive to this day. By calling all Sgt ranks by only SGT and not by the actual rank, is taking away the power, credibility, significance of each individual rank. Isn't a 1SG just a MSG, same pay depending on years, except you have a little diamond?

You know that the Army is the only branch that treats it's NCO Corps as over paid specialists? In the Marines, SSG is the start of a great accomplishment. Treated with high regard. They ARE at the next level of Leadership often times being platoon sergeants. And look out for that Gunnery Sergeant. He is the man and knows his stuff. Officers come to him for advise and often times the leader in combat w/o an officer. WHY? Because he is held in high regard. Professional.

Navy has a whole separate ceremony when one makes Chief. They have their own set of class A uniform. And he IS the Leader that his COC comes to. He is the Subject Matter Expert. And the same can be said when they make E-6.

So long story almost short. YES!! SSG, SFC, MSG, 1SG, SGM, CSM should be called by their rank. And if I recall I have never heard of a CSM bitching about being called Sergeant Major.

P.S. I still believe that the Army needs to bring back the full spectrum of Specialist ranks for E-5, E-6, E-7.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2021 3:56 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 15:56:37 -0400

And many Marines smile and look on at all the hub-bub this threads stirs up. Lol

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made Aug 10 at 2021 9:34 PM

1SG Joseph Dartey — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 21:34:15 -0400

I cannot answer question nor will I speculate on it. All I required the people under my control to call me was Sergeant when I was a Master Sergeant. When I was a Direct Support/General Support Maintenance Control Sergeant, I had a very heavily heated discussion with a newly appointed 2LT from another unit in my office behind closed doors after duty hours and yes, there was profanity coming from both of us. Apparently one of my people heard us and from that day on, I was called "Master Blaster" because I was giving him hell. But after that day, we both had more respect for each after and we both apologized for our behavior. When I was promoted to First Sergeant, I was called "First Sergeant" or "Top", except except when the Bn SGM would call to tell me something had to be done and I would inform him that it had been taken care of and he would reply "Damn You" are you a friggin mind reader. So every time he would see me, he would always call me "Damn You" when no one was around. We had a very good rapport and understanding.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2021 8:15 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Aug 2021 08:15:13 -0400

I don’t insist on it, but I gave up explaining that it is incorrect. I used to do it myself because it seems more respectful. I have served in several joint assignments and a naval officer thanked me for explaining that I am addressed as SGT, not MSG. He said you would never do that with a marine NCO. A staff sergeant is addressed as staff sergeant etc.

Response by SPC Ray Orvin made Aug 16 at 2021 4:47 PM

SPC Ray Orvin — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 16:47:32 -0400

Reaching E8 is not an easy feat. So of course I’ll say 1sgt or master sgt

Response by MSG Jarret Hammons made Aug 17 at 2021 5:20 AM

MSG Jarret Hammons — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 05:20:39 -0400

I have been both MSG and 1SG. The troops that I served with as 1SG call me Top, When i was an MSG it was Sergeant. Today as a retiree I look at the Army my family members are now serving in and constantly ask what in the hell is going on. The Army needs to enforce all of the customs and curtsies not just the ones that are your pet peeve.
How many of you call a lower enlisted just by their last name? That is wrong also.

Response by MSG Jarret Hammons made Aug 17 at 2021 5:21 AM

MSG Jarret Hammons — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 05:21:43 -0400

Also update your photo 1SG

Response by LCpl Ashur Nissan made Aug 17 at 2021 12:23 PM

LCpl Ashur Nissan — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 12:23:19 -0400

Not sure why we wouldn't just address the superior how they want to be addressed. In the Corps, everyone I knew addressed their superiors with their full formal title, unless invited to do otherwise. By default start with the full title, they earned it. Some folks care more about that than others. Using a full title doen't adversely affect your paycheck or meal schedule. Disrespect can though.

Response by MSG Michael McEleney made Aug 18 at 2021 3:21 PM

MSG Michael McEleney — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:21:59 -0400

If you consider there are 5 grades of Sergeant, with seven titles, they want the same respect that a fellow E-8 gets as a First Sergeant. Of course they may also realize that they’re at their terminal grade and want to flaunt their grade over junior sergeants.

Response by CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2021 5:44 PM

CH (CPT) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:44:46 -0400

While others may quote AR 600-20 to address a Master Sergeant as a Sergeant. I simply believe as a Soldier and Officer; and a prior Marine NCO it wouldn't hurt to give the man or woman his/her dues by simply referring to him/her as Master Sergeant. Kind words and good gesture go a long way.

Response by SGT Jordan Ray made Aug 19 at 2021 8:43 AM

SGT Jordan Ray — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:43:54 -0400

I called MSG by whatever they asked to be called as. Mostly out of respect. But if they had an ego issue I called them by proper rank and carried on. There’s too much work to be done to worry about petty stuff. Because in the end when you are out no one is going to call you by your rank in the civilian world. Unless the occasion calls.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2021 1:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 13:44:46 -0400

Because most people that the master sergeant outranks are unapologetic ass kissers, and so the master sergeant thinks everyone should kiss their ass by giving them special treatment. Officers, who should know better, encourage this behavior by participating in it.

Response by MSG Manuel Garcia made Aug 19 at 2021 7:02 PM

MSG Manuel Garcia — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 19:02:33 -0400

If we talk about egos. No one else has any to include you?

Response by MSG James Devereaux made Aug 22 at 2021 4:00 PM

MSG James Devereaux — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:00:29 -0400

Really? Are you guys that bored “1sg”??? Some E8 from your S3 needs to come and tell you what to do it appears.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Aug 22 at 2021 4:36 PM

MSG Greg Kelly — Sun, 22 Aug 2021 16:36:18 -0400

I think its funny this is still getting comments. I have had 1SG, MSG, SGM and CSM Demand to be called by their full title. The worst was a two douche bags I had not seen in years they had both been advanced to SGM and CSM it came from their mouths at the same time when I saw them walking toward I said hello gentlemen long time no see. They both popped out with that's Sergeant Major to you Kelly. And replied the with only thing I could and that's Master Sergeant to you two. You both must have been under the same desk promotions and Blanket award CIB's so much for hellos I got in my vehicle and drove away. I have never heard from them again

Response by SFC William Linnell made Aug 23 at 2021 7:45 AM

SFC William Linnell — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 07:45:48 -0400

Good morning NCOs. I was rereading some of the comments. I always loved the flash in your face the Reg quoters, AR 670-1 says.....YES we got it, you can quote the regs. Have any of you other Senior NCO's thought about how calling each individual SGT ranks by their actual ranks might just cause a better .... stature (? not sure if this word fits). Because isn't it a bit degrading calling a SFC a sergeant? Same goes with MSG. To me anyways it felt like it was degrading your rank and that YES I'm a Sergeant First Class but not really any different than a overpaid Specialist.
I feel that over the years of hearing how the NCO Corps isn't getting the respect it deserves from some Officers because our ranks have been degraded so much as to be labeled a Sergeant when your a SSG or higher. But that's just me. Who's ready for a beer?

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Aug 28 at 2021 10:37 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 22:37:47 -0400

Depends on HOW you call me.
And it better be nice.

Response by CPO Boyd Garrett made Sep 13 at 2021 1:22 PM

CPO Boyd Garrett — Mon, 13 Sep 2021 13:22:45 -0400

Having worked in joint services environments through much of my career, I'd be tempted to start addressing such MSG as "Monosodium Glutamate." Interservice rivalries can be an endless source of entertainment, as long as everyone has the right attitude. :-)

Response by SGT Ryan Cash made Sep 16 at 2021 2:51 PM

SGT Ryan Cash — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:51:42 -0400

I had the weird case to only ever meet two Master Sergeants. Only one of which was in the same unit I served in. Occasionally people called him "Master Sergeant", which he never was upset by or encouraged. I always called him Sergeant because that's what the AR said. Again, he never got upset or demanded either way, as long as we provided him the respect he was due (which was considerable).

Response by COL John Power made Sep 16 at 2021 3:08 PM

COL John Power — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 15:08:07 -0400

While I retired a number of years ago, the standard reference to a Sergeant of any rank other than !SG or SGM was simply Sergeant. Seems about right. The calling out of "Master Sergeant" is a bit unnecessary. Never had that come up.

Response by MSG Joshua Fleming made Sep 21 at 2021 8:58 AM

MSG Joshua Fleming — Tue, 21 Sep 2021 08:58:34 -0400

I am a retired Master Sergeant and never demanded my troops address me as such. Rather, they insisted and when questioned why, their responses were along the lines of showing respect. I imagine it was also used as a warning to other troops within hearing range that I was in the AO.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Sep 23 at 2021 1:15 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 13:15:02 -0400

The earned it, you should do as they order you to do.

The real question here is why do you take issue with it?

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Oct 31 at 2021 10:36 PM

1SG Chad Mcdaniel — Sun, 31 Oct 2021 22:36:39 -0400

As a 1SG I was referred to 1SG or TOP, I responded to either. As a MSG I was referred to as both Sergeant and Master Sergeant (on a few occasions TOP), I responded to either. I made sure that Soldiers knew it was not necessary to call me Master Sergeant. The Soldiers who referred to me as Master Sergeant told me that it was out of respect and I earned that. So it's whatever, but I appreciate they felt that way.

Response by SSG William M Davis made Nov 7 at 2021 11:36 AM

SSG William M Davis — Sun, 07 Nov 2021 11:36:20 -0500

One of the first lessons of the NCO Academy is that from E5 to E9, you are addressed as Sergeant. PERIOD.

Response by SPC Dennis Kregel made Nov 8 at 2021 1:24 AM

SPC Dennis Kregel — Mon, 08 Nov 2021 01:24:19 -0500

It's funny in my time in the Army I only regularly dealt with 2 Master Sergeants. 1 was our Motor Sergeant who was respectfully referred to as Motor Daddy by everyone. The other was the BN CODY'S Bradley gunner and was also the BN Master Gunner who was respectfully referred to as Master Blaster. Oh how I miss my days in the 3rd ID, Rock of the Marne!

Response by SFC William Linnell made Nov 8 at 2021 7:56 AM

SFC William Linnell — Mon, 08 Nov 2021 07:56:47 -0500

Good morning ALL.
I don't remember the exact comments from earlier. It's been awhile. Let's ponder this for a moment. Why is it in the Regs to address SGT, SSG, SFC, MSG as only SGT? WHY is that? Who, what rank actually wrote it that way? I'll make some valid points here in a moment, some might get a few fellow Soldiers/Officers get a case of the glow butt but my intent is to figure out why. As a SFC, I was a Combat Adviser/Instructor/Mentor at the Combat Adviser School at Fort Riley then at Fort Polk. training teams from Navy, Air Force, Army, Army NG and Reserves. So let's begin.

First I'll address the Navy when it comes to the E-5, E-6 then E-7. To make those two lower ranks, they have to take tests challenging their knowledge and skills of their jobs the Navy regs. And does anyone really understand all the Navy enlisted ranks and titles? I sure don't. They really earn those ranks and are justly recognized. Not for Chief/E-7, that's a whole new world of respect and authority. They have a time honored tradition that is conducted when making Chief. They even have their own set of Dress Uniforms and the respect level from lower enlisted and from Officers is really amazing to witness. Which I ask myself, why doesn't SFC and MSG receive that kind of respect in the Army?

Air Force...well that's a whole different breed of military that I just haven't figured out. Prima donna's?? LOL.

The Marines are set up in rank structure much like ours. With more focus on knowing your job and continuing the mission even if the NCO is out of action. Now SSG and higher is by select board like we are. When they make SSG it is a rank and it is recognizes one of authority, professionalism and knowledge. They aren't just another NCO.

So here we go. My beloved Army. I came in when they still had Spec5 - Spec7 ranks (1984) and when they did away it them (1985). I am a tanker, a combat arms MOS. After more then a decade in I came to realize that they shouldn't have done away with those ranks. Especially in the admin/support units. And that is a whole other topic. But the point of addressing ALL NCO's from MSG down "Just as" SGT. That is were I believe the Army has failed the NCO Corps. We are NOT just SGT's. each rank has it's own level of expertise, responsibility and knowledge learning one up, next level. By condoning this "ALL SGTs" rank calling, is it being forced from higher out of "fear" of giving the NCO Corps "too much" power/authority? Think about it. The Army began running itself and formed by the old Hierarchy of British military in its structure. Yes, the Officers are in "charge" and the NCO makes sure the task is completed. I believe is taking away from the NCO Corps. Now, something to ponder on, why is it specifically written that the 1SG be called 1SG, with TOP being accepted, SGM and CSG being called SGM? Aren't they just NCO's as well? Some will say it's because they are in Command Positions. Isn't the SFC mostly in a command position? Another point on why is there three E-9 ranks? When it was brought up for the SMA to have it's whole rank and grade Big Brass shot it down but gave a treat of changing the middle of the rank and the pay grade as E-9(S). As THE Top NCO in the Army that rank should've stood out above all others. 3 up, 4 down with the symbol in the middle and a E-10 pay grade. Your thoughts?

Response by SPC Julio R. made Nov 12 at 2021 12:55 PM

SPC Julio R. — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:55:44 -0500

SIMPLE THEY HAVE HUGE EGOS. LIKE THOSE CLOWN OFFICERS THAT WANTED THEIR SALUTE WHILE WALKING DOWN THE BLVD ON BAGRAM. ALL ABOUT THE RANK AND THEIR DOOKIE NOT STINKING. THE BEST EXAMPLE IS THE A-HOLE IN BLACK HAWK DOWN CRYING ABOUT WEAPONS ON SAFETY. THEY NEED AND OR SEEK THE ATTENTION. THEY MOST LIKELY LOVE PULLING RANK. BUSTER BLUE FALCONS IS WHAT THEY ARE. i get it you earned the rank well deserved but you don't see others making a big deal out of it like you.

Response by SSG Bill Moore made Nov 16 at 2021 9:40 PM

SSG Bill Moore — Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:40:43 -0500

My take... a lot of them are pissed they don't have their diamond and a lot are power hungry shit heads that love to watch troops squirm in their boots from the MSG correcting their inability to address them as such

Response by LCpl Larry Morgan made Nov 17 at 2021 3:32 PM

LCpl Larry Morgan — Wed, 17 Nov 2021 15:32:41 -0500

In the Marine Corps it is customary to address all enlisted and commissioned by their exact rank. In the Corps you earn that rank deserve to have it acknowledged.

Response by MSG Tony Hughes made Nov 18 at 2021 12:01 AM

MSG Tony Hughes — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:01:11 -0500

I retired regular army as a Master Sergeant. I never once knew any of my fellow MSG's every bring up the addressing of the rank. I was addressed as Sgt. When your in command positions such as e8 first sgt you address them as first sgt, likewise with all ranks of sgt major.
The person posting this stated so many, just how many and what was the cause? Master Sgt's have typically in my career been out of sight for the most part unless you went to an s3 shop you would see them or in batallion or hg company formation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2021 12:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:27:36 -0500

Late the to meeting, but 1SG Brandon is spot on with AR 600-20. Old school [really meaning OLD] NCOs will remember a chart in the orderly room, the 1SGs office or an NCO Academy that showed the enlisted ranks and their official titles of address. I remember the E8 level showing the image of the 1SG rank and the text with it: "Congratulations! For the first time since being promoted to Sergeant, you now have a new title - FIRST SERGEANT". The correct title of address for Master Sergeant is Sergeant and I made many on the spot corrections to Soldiers who called me Master Sergeant by asking them the question: per AR 600-20, what are the four titles of address for NCOs in the pay grades E4 through E9?* If they didn't know, I'd follow up later to get their answer. Having said all that, during introductions at a schoolhouse, briefing or when sharing contact information, the full rank of Master Sergeant is fine, but thereafter, it's Sergeant. I have always found it interesting that the E9 title of address is Sergeant Major, regardless of SGM, CSM or CMA, yet the E8 level has such a distinction.

* Corporal, Sergeant, First Sergeant, Sergeant Major

Response by MSgt Matt Hancock made Nov 18 at 2021 6:27 PM

MSgt Matt Hancock — Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:27:19 -0500

Really? I did my time and was happy to retire at the rank I did (MSgt) and became the coveted holder of the rank "PFC" (Private Frikken Civilian) for as long as the retirement checks keep coming in. I do appreciate when the gate security actually looks at my ID card and waves me on with "Sergeant" but that is as far as it goes.

Response by SGT James Colbert made Nov 19 at 2021 5:08 AM

SGT James Colbert — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 05:08:51 -0500

I dont know any retired MSG that care what they are called..zi just call them MSG SGM McPO..because its out of respect for their rank and being an NCO . that's how it is...unless they tell me differently

Response by MSG Jesse Molinar made Nov 19 at 2021 8:54 AM

MSG Jesse Molinar — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 08:54:44 -0500

I too understand the regulation. Personally I feel it is a personal insecurity thing. Depending on the community you work in and environment. I did not care, myself. Those individuals that do are also the same ones that think they are going to get six figure salaries thrown at them after retirement and usually don't. But, to each their own.

Response by COL Thomas F. made Nov 19 at 2021 9:13 AM

COL Thomas F. — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:13:13 -0500

There was a time in the early-mid 90's where the Army was trying to change the culture to reflect USMC edicate in this instance. I personally liked it as a junior NCO and then as a Lt. I found it a bit more professional and recognized the effort an NCO took to achieve his rank. Now I look at it when it comes to initial contact, or to avoid what my peers call the "telephone colonel". For example, I would answer "Colonel Ficarra here" when I'm a Lieutenant Colonel. This makes the listener think I am of a rank I am not. So a NCO should say, "Master Sergeant Jones speaking". Things like that. Otherwise, saying "Sergeant" is appropriate, but if a young soldiers wishes to tack on the additional moniker, then let them provide that level of respect --- as long as its not done in a non-respectful way - and advise them in a professional way of what 600-20 says without crushing their souls.

Response by Sgt Ed Beal made Nov 19 at 2021 9:47 AM

Sgt Ed Beal — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:47:02 -0500

I did not see msgt’s asking for that but I was in the air force and you always called a chief master sgt by chief maybe times have changed, I have been out since the early 80’s

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Nov 19 at 2021 3:24 PM

SSG Dave Johnston — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:24:15 -0500

With two separate E-8 titles, it differentiates the rank and position in the chain of command

Response by SGT James Sherman made Nov 19 at 2021 6:54 PM

SGT James Sherman — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 18:54:02 -0500

I never encountered this. Hey come on, MSG are a cut above. They probably have 25+ years in service, which in my book, they earned the right to be called anything they want!

Response by MSG Chuck Odom made Nov 19 at 2021 8:30 PM

MSG Chuck Odom — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:30:28 -0500

Sergeant, Master Sergeant, Top, none of them bothered me. Hell, DA frequently sends me stuff addressed 1SG. I was never one to be on an ego trip.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Nov 21 at 2021 7:12 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:12:08 -0500

Addressing a master sergeant as "Sergeant" remains sufficient in routine drills and correspondence. Addressing the same E-8 as "Master Sergeant" is reserved for only formal ceremonies and promotional activities and official orders.

Response by SP5 James Christensen made Nov 21 at 2021 7:56 PM

SP5 James Christensen — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:56:44 -0500

I always called the sarge or Sargeant. If they had a baseball diamond in the middle it was First Sargeant; if I was in trouble or not.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2021 10:12 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 22:12:54 -0500

It's 100% ego, they have usually been a 1SG and moved onto to a position on staff or will never be a 1SG and feel they are due recognition. We teach trainees the rank structure and MSG's should be addressed as "Sergeant". There is nothing demeaning or derogatory about it, however there are some NCO's that feel they should not be addressed the same way as someone of a lower rank.

Response by Amn Joseph H. made Nov 29 at 2021 2:16 PM

Amn Joseph H. — Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:16:42 -0500

Don't remember what sergeants felt, nor did they confine thire most inner feelings:) But most of us enlisted paid them thire due:), Sarge, Chief Master or buck, as they were thought of a surrogate fathers after basic, least from a 17 year olds memory and impressions left at 75:) Only the X-Marine TI in basic that came over for two paid grades that remind us we would be thought of as bus drivers in those AF class A if we did not learn how to shoot better, march further and instantly obey orders with disciple. Getting in our faces frequently, and finally instructing us in saluting like the Air Police, arm shot out geometrically plain to the ground, snap at wrist to tip of hat with hand, sharply done:) Remembered him always, kept repeating your death will not be because I did not train you well enough, it will because you were not paying enough attention:) All had my respect, never had problem with any:)

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Dec 2 at 2021 6:06 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Thu, 02 Dec 2021 18:06:54 -0500

The “AR” does not apply to all branches

Response by SFC Craig Titzkowski made Dec 10 at 2021 7:25 PM

SFC Craig Titzkowski — Fri, 10 Dec 2021 19:25:03 -0500

I will simply say they have earned the rank so you will address them as required. I have known people to hide behind their rank. I do me and it worked the whole time I was in. I think by your leadership people will follow at any rank. Merry Christmas to all

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 10 at 2021 8:16 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Dec 2021 20:16:46 -0500

I've always addressed a MSG as MSG. Years ago when I looked it up I believe it said either or was fine. It always felt weird addressing an E8 as an E5. I made sure my Soldiers felt the same way.

Response by PO1 Bobby Barron made Dec 11 at 2021 11:48 AM

PO1 Bobby Barron — Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:48:24 -0500

A petty concern.

Response by CSM Bob Stanek made Dec 13 at 2021 3:37 PM

CSM Bob Stanek — Mon, 13 Dec 2021 15:37:16 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member It borders on Arrogance and Ego in my honest opinion. The same goes with a few CSMs who want to be called "COMMAND SERGEANT MAJOR" versus the acceptable SERGEANT MAJOR as noted in the AR. IT makes them feel good about themselves thinking they will earn more respect. Plus some really think it gives them more credibility, or just like the Soldier who puts the PROMOTABLE 'P' (example - SPC (P) or SGT (P)) after their rank thinking that makes them a better and more important Soldier. I have asked specifically about the SPC (P) or other ranke about why they were using the "P" as well as MSGs why they want to be called MASTER SERGEANT instead of the AR allowable SERGEANT. In most cases, their response was along the lines of it gives them more respect and or credibilty. In most cases, I told the soldier, their perception was wrong and would address them by the acceptable term as noted by the AR. Specifically the MSG, who I have personally corrected them on the proper use of the rank name. Its just a farce they are playing!

Response by SSG Rafael R. Rodriguez Sr. made Dec 17 at 2021 11:10 AM

SSG Rafael R. Rodriguez Sr. — Fri, 17 Dec 2021 11:10:41 -0500

I guess they rather be called Master Sergeant because they have earn the rank of such. Plus calling them MSG can be confused for (Monosodium Glutamate)?

Response by SPC Robert Hendrickson made Dec 21 at 2021 6:59 PM

SPC Robert Hendrickson — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 18:59:15 -0500

Who knows but their self(selves)..

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Dec 21 at 2021 7:48 PM

1LT Rich Voss — Tue, 21 Dec 2021 19:48:10 -0500

In my nearly 10 years of Army service, starting as draftee, through enlisted, and after becoming an officer, I can honestly say I have NEVER addressed a MSG by "Master Sergeant". Companies had a "Top" and BN level and up were "Sergeant Major". None of my platoon sergeants ever suggested I call them that either. I certainly recall with great clarity shouting out "Yes, or No, Drill Sergeant !!!" in Basic and AIT. And screamed even louder in OCS: "Sir, yes Sir !" Or "Yes Sir, LT ...., Sir !" Never made the deadly mistake of calling one of my TAC officers SGT....

Response by 1SG Rick Brown made Dec 22 at 2021 12:38 AM

1SG Rick Brown — Wed, 22 Dec 2021 00:38:56 -0500

I was an acting SGM as an MSG for a period of time and I required troops to address me as Sergeant Major. As an MSG it really depended on the context; I would not want anyone lower in rank to call me Sergeant. It's not about ego, but respect. I retired when I was presented a "stress" card by a PFC. I assume it's commonplace these days?

Response by PO2 Robert Cuminale made Dec 22 at 2021 7:55 AM

PO2 Robert Cuminale — Wed, 22 Dec 2021 07:55:01 -0500

I've worked for Senior Chiefs (E-8) and Master Chiefs (E-9) when I was active. I didn't run into too many of them working on a small base but we did have one UT Senior Chief and one Construction Mechanic Senior Chief. I don't recall any of them or the ones in the Comm Center insisting on being called by their full title. "Chief" itself itself is a mark that a Petty Officer has reached a new place in his career. The rest of us are promoted through recommendation, testing and being within quota requirements. A person making Chief also requires a selection board approval. Chiefs also have their record evaluated annually by the board to ensure they are still qualified to hold the title of Chief. Board approval is also required for advancement to Senior and Master Chief.

There's no need to address them as Senior Chief or Master Chief. Chief is enough. I would use the titles when sending a person to see them just as I am addressed as Petty Officer to in front of subordinates. Every Chief is addressed by all lower enlisted and commissioned officers as "Chief". I worked with a E-6 who'd been promoted. The first day he came to work in Khaki I no longer called him by first name. He was now "Chief". He could still call me by my name at work except as noted.

I think the problem is that everyone in the Army who is E-5 and above is addressed as Sargent. The men requesting to be called by their full titles are trying to differentiate themselves from the E-5 Sargent. He's worked hard for that grade and he wants it acknowledged.

Response by CSM Tim Bebus made Dec 23 at 2021 1:28 PM

CSM Tim Bebus — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 13:28:57 -0500

I actually have a different take then most. I actually do wish the Army was more like the Marine Corps in differentiating rank. However SFC would be a mouthful. What does urk me is Soldiers referring to others by their pay grade. ie.. some E-6 told me blh blah or my E-5 and so on

Response by 1SG William Rodman made Dec 23 at 2021 4:45 PM

1SG William Rodman — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 16:45:46 -0500

I was a First Sergeant for many years. Most of my soldiers referred to me as "Top".

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Dec 23 at 2021 5:18 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 17:18:44 -0500

Because at the same grade you got the diamond and they didn't.

Good ole butthurt syndrome.

Response by MSG Victor Soto made Dec 23 at 2021 7:04 PM

MSG Victor Soto — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 19:04:59 -0500

Normally, Unless it was an award, or some official function to be called MSG. I was called Sarge., hey you and as someone noted some not very nice names.

Response by SP5 Carl Hollander made Dec 23 at 2021 9:51 PM

SP5 Carl Hollander — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 21:51:50 -0500

How much does it cost to call them by the title they earned?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2021 2:25 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:25:39 -0500

In the Marine Corps you address them by the rank. If they are a SSgt, you call them SSgt, not Sarge. I know the Army does it. Just different

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2021 12:54 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 12:54:57 -0500

Not sure if anyone else has brought up this point, but at least in the Marine Corps, the paygrade of E8 is split, so in their case, it is literally a matter of professional pride in their chosen path of advancement.

From Marines.mil, "Gunnery sergeants (E-7) indicate their preferred promotional track on their annual evaluations. First sergeants (E-8) and sergeants major (E-9) serve as senior enlisted advisors assisting the commanding officer in matters of discipline, administration, and the morale and welfare of the unit. First sergeants serve as the senior enlisted Marine in a company, battery, or other unit at similar echelon, while sergeants major serve the same role in battalions, squadrons, or larger units. Master sergeants (E-8) and master gunnery sergeants (E-9) provide technical leadership as occupational specialists in their specific MOS."

Response by Sgt Todd Nakahara made Dec 24 at 2021 4:26 PM

Sgt Todd Nakahara — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 16:26:54 -0500

Maybe, master sergeants want to be just like the Marines by addressing as their actual rank; instead of calling them “sergeant” for every single sergeant from a staff sergeant to a sergeant major.

Response by SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott made Dec 24 at 2021 5:35 PM

SPC Patricia K. (Williams) Elliott — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 17:35:23 -0500

I always called the high-ranking NCOs by the rank on their sleeve or collar. Master Sergeant, 1ST Sergeant or Top if they preferred that, Command Sergeant Major. Had that drilled into me during basic and just never forgot it! I don't see where that would be an ego thing! To me it's a sign of respect!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2021 9:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 21:17:02 -0500

I never once asked anyone to address me in that manner. Oddly enough most people just did.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2021 10:06 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Dec 2021 22:06:01 -0500

Is it that serious to not call a MSG by full rank? And is it that serious of an entitlement for someone to be referred to by their rank?

Response by Cpl Brian Escobar made Dec 25 at 2021 1:58 AM

Cpl Brian Escobar — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 01:58:30 -0500

I don't know why the Army Tradition and culture has such ambiguity with titles among it's enlisted ranks. My Brother an National Guardsman tried to explain it to a hard headed devil dog like myself and I am still puzzled by this idea of earned respect being the most important attribute rather than title necessarily...It's gotta be some enduring Army Culture Attribute because 30 years later, my son now an Air Cavalryman with the 101st AB understands it the same way as my brother did when he tried to explain this to me 30 or so years ago "it's about earned respect more than the rank...) ...I guess my problem is I'm a Marine. We learned that our branch was born to fight on land, sea, (and later...air) next to our Sailor Brethren who were also a proud Branch and Unique Military Culture that we were expected to navigate and work immediately and seamlessly side by side with. We were taught that our immediate NCO's starting with Corporals who wore the Red Blood Stripe on their trousers and carried the NCO's Sword would have their orders obeyed as would the word of God (like a Captain or Chief of a Ship)...(When I told my son that Marine Corporals in the Infantry are like Demi-God's, he laughed and said Army Corporals are kindof a joke...and that the "E-4 Mafia Ran the lower enlisted ranks of the Army"...lol) In the Corps, THE RANK...NOT THE MAN...is what I witnessed RESPECTED in Garrison and in the Combat Zone. If they were a quality guy and leader then lucky for you...If he was a worthless, ass kissing garbage person with Sgt. or SSGT. stripes then tough shit! You'd better address him and respect him just the same...Marine junior enlisted and junior NCO's not to mention our SNCO"S were given enormous responsibility and latitude in making critical decisions on the battlefield in a rifle platoon...very often you would look around to see who was in charge and it was the guy just above you beside you or even YOU who was left to call in coordinates, evacuate wounded, navigate a patrol or call fire missions in training or in combat...So what you got with this in the Corps is unquestioned obedience and respect for that rank no matter how incompetent, talented or capable that particular NCO or SNCO might be. The best results of this cultural peculiarity manifested in quick decision making, taking the initiative, resilience, and sustaining the fight to destroy the enemy...the worst results could manifest in men or units getting unnecessarily lost, hurt, and killed...(I saw this too) To the Corps (at least when I was in) dead or maimed Marines were an acceptable reality of that profession...lack of respect, losing the initiative, lack of efficiency, or worst of all!...lack of fighting spirt were not...

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Dec 25 at 2021 12:52 PM

COL Victor Hagan — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 12:52:17 -0500

Why is this even a question? As members of the US Army, we should recognize Master Sergeant rank on site. When another servicemember asks that you address them by the rank they've earned just extend them the couresty and keep it moving.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Dec 25 at 2021 2:18 PM

1SG Michael Farrell — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:18:19 -0500

It could be a bleed over from the Navy. I always liked the way that it worked and hasn't changed since sometime in the 19th century. Then again, I didn't mind being called Top, when wearing diamonds, so maybe I'm weird.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2021 2:38 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:38:49 -0500

I correct and educate troops on this topic

Response by MSG Kevin Elliott made Dec 25 at 2021 7:20 PM

MSG Kevin Elliott — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 19:20:02 -0500

I never insisted on being called anything other than Sergeant. If I was called Master Sergeant, I responded. When I was the Brigade Operations SGM, I was often called Sergeant Major. I would correct those outside of our HQs, but everyone in the building kept it up, no matter what I said.

Response by PV2 Fred Sternberg made Dec 25 at 2021 7:55 PM

PV2 Fred Sternberg — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 19:55:19 -0500

I am a retired physician and I find it strange when addressed, Mr., Fred. I don't mind Doc, Dr. Fred. It wasn't easy to get that degree and I feel I deserve the respect the title signifies. Who knows what the future holds. Drs. could be vilified, in which case Mr. and Fred would be alright to protect me from bodily injury.

Response by MSG Gerald Schembri made Dec 25 at 2021 9:40 PM

MSG Gerald Schembri — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 21:40:46 -0500

As a retired MSG I really didn't care if they called me Sergeant but I did like it when they called me Master Sergeant.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Dec 25 at 2021 11:08 PM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Sat, 25 Dec 2021 23:08:12 -0500

I have been called a number of things and Master Sergeant was only once in a while. Sergeant was the norm while I was active duty. Following retirement you can call me whatever you wish just don't call me late for dinner. The only ones I've noticed insisting on rank and status are E7s,8s, and 9s that are unable to realize they are permanently promoted to Mister once they retired

Response by SPC John Tsutsui made Dec 27 at 2021 11:31 AM

SPC John Tsutsui — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 11:31:56 -0500

Always called E-5 to E-8 Sergeant unless he (or she) is a 1SG. Then it's Top. E-9 nothing but Sergeant Major. All with respect.

Response by SPC John Tacetta made Dec 27 at 2021 3:35 PM

SPC John Tacetta — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:35:08 -0500

Just as a CPL outranks SPC, does 1SG outrank MSG? I never had to give it any thought as I never saw anything but 1SGs around me. Team leader: CPL or SGT, squad leader: SSG, Platoon leader SFC. The 1SG sat at the top of the company and the CSM stood next to the BN commander.

Response by CMDCM Richard Moon made Dec 27 at 2021 3:59 PM

CMDCM Richard Moon — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 15:59:53 -0500

I was meeting with some senior NCOs at Camp Geigers School of Infantry. One of them was a Master Sergeant, kept referring to me as Chief (I was a Master Chief) and in general was unprofessional and frankly an asshole. When I threw out, on purpose "Gunnery Sergeant " he became irate and said he "...was a Master Sergeant of the Marine Corps, and that I would address him so". When I looked at the Master Gunnery Sergeant he smiled. I told the Master Sergeant, that's right you are. And I'm a Master Chief, now can we get down to business?" Some people are far too rank conscious.

Response by SSgt Phil Sutherland made Dec 27 at 2021 4:45 PM

SSgt Phil Sutherland — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 16:45:58 -0500

It takes many years and knowledge to achieve that rank. As a Marine, we recognize this difficult achievement and out of respect call them by their earned rank. They deserve that for their long service and dedication!

Response by 1stSgt Rick Ensenbach made Dec 27 at 2021 9:37 PM

1stSgt Rick Ensenbach — Mon, 27 Dec 2021 21:37:34 -0500

As an Air Force Master Sergeant I was rarely called Master Sergeant. It was just sergeant unless I was in a formal setting or blind introduction (e.g. phone). As a First Sergeant I enjoyed and was honored to be called Shirt.

Response by PO1 Jon Jepsen made Dec 28 at 2021 12:29 AM

PO1 Jon Jepsen — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 00:29:28 -0500

It's a psychological issue. because they aren't getting any respect anywhere else (especially at home), they gotta DEMAND it somewhere else.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2021 1:55 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 01:55:58 -0500

When I was a 1SG I was almost always called Top. Some called me First Sergeant. No one ever called me simply Sergeant. After a few years I was reassigned to a brigade and lost the diamond. Those who knew me from before still called me Top. A very few called me Master Sergeant. Most simply said Sergeant. I never cared which title they used when I was an MSG. There are much bigger things to worry about!

Response by SFC Glenn Boyer made Dec 28 at 2021 9:41 AM

SFC Glenn Boyer — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:41:14 -0500

Not much on protocol. Titles don’t make the man it’s what you do and how you respond to having the title

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Dec 28 at 2021 3:49 PM

SMSgt Sheila Berg — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 15:49:46 -0500

it's a personnel preference. Although retired, I am still addressed a Senior when entering a Military Base! Agree as a 1st Sgt., was called all sorts of names!

Response by MSG Teejay Jordan made Dec 28 at 2021 7:07 PM

MSG Teejay Jordan — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 19:07:05 -0500

I've never once told someone to call me that. Sometimes they do, but from my experience it's mostly the ones that's never worn the diamond and wants the "extra credit" for their rank

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2021 9:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:29:22 -0500

Never heard of calling an MSG Top. I have always called them Master Sergeant and I wouldn't call a 1st.SGT Top because many think that is unprofessional.

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Dec 28 at 2021 9:42 PM

Lt Col Warren Domke — Tue, 28 Dec 2021 21:42:14 -0500

I am often addressed as "Lieutenant Colonel," although the correct address is simply "Colonel." I don't have a problem either way. It is accurate to call me by my actual rank or by the accepted form of address and a simple "Sir" is more than adequate for a retired light colonel like me. One of my sons is an Air Force master sergeant and another is an Army master sergeant. I am every bit as proud of their achievement of those ranks (which are not exactly the same) as I am of my own retired grade. We all achieved those ranks by hard work and dedication. I do appreciate being recognized and I am proud to have been honored in serving. Were I retired at any other rank I would take pride in such achievements. For many years I answered to "Captain" and for quite a few I answered to "Lieutenant." It all counts for 20 or 30 or how ever many years a person has sacrificed his or her sweat and blood in service to our country.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Dec 29 at 2021 11:53 AM

1SG Brian Adams — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 11:53:45 -0500

Ok, you garnered my attention! Let me ask you, are you still on active duty? I noticed your Profile photo has you as a SFC. Are you promotable or in and " acting jack" position?
The reason I am asking is it seems to me that you have lately ran into a situation that has prompted you to ask the Rally point playing field, namely E-8s, their thoughts on the matter....yes?
Had you a run in with a MSG while you were in the 1SG position wearing SFC rank?
Case in point, your due diligence is correct. MSG, the majority of the time are addressed "Master Sergents" but Reg Guidance states " Sergeant" is correct....
As a First Sergeant, and as junior to a MSG, I have always addressed them as "Master Sergeant"
Now you wanna talk egos? Try a CSM...vs a SGM...that's where the fun is at!!! Hope this helped you out and good luck to you and thx for your excellent service...
Hoooah!

Response by SGT Zubin Chandran made Dec 29 at 2021 1:22 PM

SGT Zubin Chandran — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 13:22:42 -0500

Where did my post go? How to delete this? So many questions, so little patience.

Response by MSgt Frank Askins made Dec 29 at 2021 1:57 PM

MSgt Frank Askins — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 13:57:37 -0500

One word...... EGO!

Response by MSG Brian Huey made Dec 29 at 2021 9:43 PM

MSG Brian Huey — Wed, 29 Dec 2021 21:43:15 -0500

As a young soldier I learned there were 3 sergeants in the Army. You address Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, and Master Sergeant as Sergeant. You address a First Sergeant as First Sergeant. And you address both Command Sergeant Major and Sergeant Major as Sergeant Major. Any NCO who insists on being called Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class etc, needs an attitude check. BTW I served 29 years all on active duty. MSG (RET) Brian Huey

Response by SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA made Dec 30 at 2021 9:34 AM

SSgt Chuck “Gunz” Gundlach USMC Ret., MBA — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:34:49 -0500

Not familiar with the Army Regs. It almost seems ridiculous to need a reg where you state the title of address for a rank, and then have multiple ranks with the same designation. I come from the Marine Corps side, and your designation was your rank…which makes complete sense. A private is a private, a pfc, is a pfc, a lance corporal is a lance corporal, a corporal is a corporal, a sergeant is a sergeant, a staff sergeant is a staff sergeant, a gunnery sergeant is a gunnery sergeant or gunny, a 1st sergeant is a 1st sergeant or 1st shirt, a master sergeant is a master sergeant or top, a master gunnery sergeant is a master gunnery sergeant or master gunz, a sergeant major is a sergeant major, or smaj. I’ve always seen it as respect, not ego. I actually thought it was disrespecting when I would hear officers calling each other by their first names around the enlisted. Behind closed doors, or out at a bar, ok, but in uniform, with enlisted around, a lieutenant and captain should call each other by their rank, or the junior one can call the senior one sir, but keep the first names at unofficial events. That’s my take. But this thing, where everyone is a sergeant, not ok with me. You’ve earn it, and someone is always senior when two or more Marines are together. So rank makes sense to me after 20 years of active duty, and another 16 years retired.

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Dec 30 at 2021 9:50 AM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 09:50:21 -0500

Since this is purely an Army question, my comment is for information only. While it is permissive to shorten some ranks when addressing Marines, we pretty much use some form of the correct rank, out of custom and respect. For instance, a Staff Sergeant can be called "Sergeant" but it was rarely done, in my experience, but I am sure it has happened. From Gunnery Sergeant up, though, I have never heard one called just "sergeant" and I was in (active and reserve) from '65 to '06. Again, this is not to address Army policy, only for information.

Response by 1SG Daniel Foote made Dec 30 at 2021 9:19 PM

1SG Daniel Foote — Thu, 30 Dec 2021 21:19:42 -0500

Every time I've been around someone who insisted on being called "Master Sergeant", I made it a point to call them "Sergeant" and smile. Not long before I retired, I was in civilian clothes and called someone "Sergeant" and they said, "It's MASTER Sergeant". My reply was, "In that case, SERGEANT, you may call me FIRST SERGEANT! Based on Army Regulations, that's the correct way to address each other." He changed his tone with me real quick and didn't pull that with anyone in front of me again. I later learned he'd never "worn the diamond" and was on a power trip. So sad.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2021 1:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 13:40:34 -0500

Over-inflated sense of self importance. Nothing to get wound up about. They can insist, but they can't force you.

Response by TSgt George Austin made Dec 31 at 2021 1:52 PM

TSgt George Austin — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 13:52:48 -0500

Ego is a strong driver. My son is a medical doctor. The head librarian here is a PhD and she demands to be addressed as doctor. Jill Biden is a PhD in teaching and she will go insane if you do not call her doctor. Insecurity and bed wetting makes these other "non-medical" doctors demand a recognition they never deserved. Whereas they will immediately tell you they are a "doctor" you could spend a day with my son and his peers and never know they were REAL doctors. It is the old "who you know vs who you bl@@. Those that know they do not deserve recognition yell the most for validation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2021 4:48 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 16:48:44 -0500

I was always told there are two Sergeant ranks that are addressed with other than Sergeant and that is First Sergeant and CSM/SGM.

Response by CPT John Ioia made Dec 31 at 2021 5:27 PM

CPT John Ioia — Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:27:13 -0500

1SG, I was an NCO prior to moving to the Dark Side. I was intimately knowledgeable of the reg on titles. However, because an E8 received a rank of significance, I always called them MSG. Not a one demanded it, nor corrected me. If you made the spot correction on me I would laugh at you. Many more things for a 1SG to worry about than a fellow E8 being called by their rank. I agree with others, if you demanded I call you such, I would refer to the regulation and call them Sergeant. However, that never happened to me as enlisted or officer.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2022 10:45 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Jan 2022 10:45:51 -0500

I think I've met only one fellow Master Sergeant who wanted to be addressed as such. I was a young MSG and when I addressed him as "Sergeant" he replied "Master Sergeant call me Master Sergeant". I said ok Sergeant, call me Sergeant. Most of the young Soldiers would address me as Master Sergeant but if time permitted, I would correct them. For 18 years out of my 24-year career, I was called Sergeant Nak. Heck, even USAA calls me Sergeant Nak, haha!

Response by Cpl George Matousek made Jan 2 at 2022 1:03 PM

Cpl George Matousek — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 13:03:52 -0500

Because it is their rank, so that is their title.

Response by MSG Kenny Lane made Jan 2 at 2022 1:30 PM

MSG Kenny Lane — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 13:30:11 -0500

As a MSG, it made no difference to myself but over the years there were a few who insisted on being addressed as MSG. I believe it's a ego thing
Rank going to their head

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Jan 2 at 2022 7:15 PM

1SG James Kelly — Sun, 02 Jan 2022 19:15:42 -0500

Well, maybe it's just me, but I busted my A** for 20 years to earn that the title of 1SG.
Some feather merchant wins an election once and is called senator for life.
Some guy goes to school a couple of extra years and has the title of Esquire or Doctor for the rest of his life.
MY troops can call me Top.
But that's me.
Along the way I gt a college degree and Master Gunner, Master Gunner Instructor rating.

Response by 1SG Gary Bacon made Jan 3 at 2022 10:00 AM

1SG Gary Bacon — Mon, 03 Jan 2022 10:00:33 -0500

As MSG I never gave it a thought...Master Sergeant...Sergeant...didn't matter...same when I was 1SG...Call me Top...First Sergeant....didn't give it a second thought. I did know a few 1SG that hated being called top though....I rather enjoyed it though.

Response by PFC James Edward VERNON jr made Jan 4 at 2022 10:33 AM

PFC James Edward VERNON jr — Tue, 04 Jan 2022 10:33:17 -0500

IT IS JUST A SIGN OF "RESPECT" TO DISTINGUISH THEM FROM THE OTHER SARGEANTS. I SEE NO HARM EITHER ADDRESS WILL DO, BUT I AM ONLY A RETIRED/ DISABLED PFC.

Response by SFC Michael Wood made Jan 20 at 2022 7:54 AM

SFC Michael Wood — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 07:54:12 -0500

I believe there are four ways to address a non commission officer, Corporal, Sergeant,First Sergeant, Sergeant Major.

Response by MGySgt Sal Sgroi made Jan 20 at 2022 8:42 AM

MGySgt Sal Sgroi — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 08:42:21 -0500

I disagree with your comment of “they should be secure enough in their careers and position to not need constant affirmation of their rank”. Working in the joint environment how do you know if the Sergeant that is an E-5 or E-9? You do not know if they refer to themselves as Sergeant. As a retired Master Gunnery Sergeant you can refer to me as Master Guns or Master Gunnery Sergeant, nothing else. Yes I was secure in my career my position and myself. I earned the rank so show respect.

Response by CPO Nate S. made Jan 20 at 2022 8:43 AM

CPO Nate S. — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 08:43:47 -0500

1SG Brandon, I agree it is ego. All of us have run into one or two whose ego is beyond their reason and have forgotten their purpose when they reach this level when they insist on title. I then to think of such people by their paygrade (E9). Those that demonstrate, at least in the Navy, have earned the title MASTER CHIEF, in my case, always enter my mind 1st as a Master Chief vs some who continue to be in my mind's-eye as E9s. Just saying.........................

Response by 2LT Sal Mortillaro made Jan 20 at 2022 9:20 AM

2LT Sal Mortillaro — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 09:20:49 -0500

Because that is their rank. It’s always been peculiar to me that the Army blanketly calls every E6-E9 the rank of an E5. I guess “Sergeant First Class” is a mouthful to be fair, but I still do it.

Response by MCPO Hilary Kunz made Jan 20 at 2022 9:54 AM

MCPO Hilary Kunz — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 09:54:02 -0500

Interesting view into the way another service operates. I always called my Marine counterparts “Sergeant Major”, or “Bill, Fred, etc, if we were close and had agreed”, but never in front of troops.
Unlike the Navy, where were residents, the Marines only sent one Sargent Major per command group, (I worked with a variety of MEUs, MAUs, etc, and whatever else, they often changed the deployed group function/name to meet the mission) so he was always a Command Sargent Major.

Response by SGT Ruben Lozada made Jan 20 at 2022 10:20 AM

SGT Ruben Lozada — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 10:20:35 -0500

I concur "Top" I recall when I was active duty Navy, the E4s to E6 were addressed by their rate and last name. For example, YN1 Doe. This was different for for E7s. Which were addressed as "Chief" short for Chief Petty Officer. E8s were addressed as Senior. E9s as Master Chief. Coming into the Army I had to change the way I addressed NCOs and officers. At the recruiters station We were told to address a MSG as Master Sergeant out if showing respect. From that day and throughout My Army career, I have addressed every MSG as Master Sergeant. Also, within the Army Officers are addressed as Sir unlike the Navy where You may an NCO address a junior officer as LT or "Skipper" (06s). Or an 05 as Commander.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 2:09 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:09:24 -0500

I've never had one insist upon it, though I have called a few it because I either liked them or respected them in some way. Though it was usually the abbreviated Mas' Sarn't. I never really called an NCO the regularly pronounced 'Sergeant' unless I didn't know them or unless I didn't like them.

I do recall one SFC not in my formation getting mad that I called a MSG who was in my formation 'Mas' Sarn't'. He demanded to know why I addressed him as such, I of course responded with 'That's his rank Sergeant'. He proceeded to go off an a rant about how SGT through MSG is just Sergeant and wanted to know why I didn't call him Sergeant First Class.

Of course nothing in the reg prohibits me from calling a Master Sergeant by their full rank or just Sergeant, which I informed the SFC, it was just my preference depending on the Soldier in question. As for why I don't call a SFC by their full rank, well quite honestly saying Sergeant First Class is tedious and there is no abbreviated version that rolls off the tongue well.

This of course devolved further into what about Staff Sergeants and how Marines address them as such but the Army doesn't. Well, that's a different branch culture thing right there, not Army related, not an Army problem. Of course I do know Soldiers who call SSG's by their full rank, and I have done it as well though usually only in a moment of levity.

The Army is not so different from High School, if Soldiers find out it bothers you and there's nothing in the reg you can do about it, they're going to mess with you. So Mas' Sarn't, or just Sarn't, suck it up and be a Sergeant worth working with.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 4:08 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:08:29 -0500

Usmucks never called 1stSgt Top or First Shirt. Most MSgts didn't care, some did. Newbies just watch and learn by mistakes of others. Top was common for MSgts. Stick to Sergeant Major. Master Gunnery Sergeants often ends up as Master Guns or Master Gunny.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2022 7:25 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 19:25:44 -0500

Well said with your edit.

Response by MGySgt Sal Sgroi made Jan 20 at 2022 8:23 PM

MGySgt Sal Sgroi — Thu, 20 Jan 2022 20:23:09 -0500

This is all fine for the Army and their regulations. You can call each other Sergeant if that floats your boat. In the Marines we DON'T use Sergeant to refer to Staff Sergeant and above. So if you ever come across a Marine Staff Sergeant or above please use their proper rank or risk being corrected on the spot. Semper Fi!!

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 21 at 2022 4:13 PM

CSM Richard StCyr — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 16:13:10 -0500

My guess would be their ego.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2022 8:46 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Jan 2022 20:46:49 -0500

Insecurities.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2022 7:57 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 19:57:55 -0500

As long as he stays off my lawn it's okay with me.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Feb 24 at 2022 11:35 PM

SSG Jack Scott — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 23:35:54 -0500

I never understood the Army Rank coming from the Marine Corps. Every other branch addresses SGT ranks by the stripes you earned. Try addressing a Senior chief and Master chief as chief and see what it gets you.

Response by Sgt Michael Clifford made Feb 26 at 2022 2:46 PM

Sgt Michael Clifford — Sat, 26 Feb 2022 14:46:28 -0500

When I served back in the mid 60's we called all 1st Sergeants and Master Sergeants "Top". Regardless of what their job was.

Response by CDR Andrew McMenamin, PhD made Feb 27 at 2022 1:50 PM

CDR Andrew McMenamin, PhD — Sun, 27 Feb 2022 13:50:47 -0500

Well said!

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Mar 1 at 2022 6:15 PM

MSG Chuck Pewsey — Tue, 01 Mar 2022 18:15:19 -0500

Being addressed as master sergeant always kinda annoyed me. If I's had a diamond or a star it would have been different.

Response by SSgt Scotty Marks made Mar 11 at 2022 12:25 AM

SSgt Scotty Marks — Fri, 11 Mar 2022 00:25:45 -0500

Because they've been hanging around with Marines? We INSIST on being addressed by our ranks. Call me "sarge" and I will go to prison.

Response by PO2 Raymond Bejarano made Mar 11 at 2022 12:02 PM

PO2 Raymond Bejarano — Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:02:07 -0500

Very True

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2022 2:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Mar 2022 14:26:45 -0500

Usually those that demand to be called Master Sergeant are looking for respect that they are missing elsewhere. They failed to read the regulation and feel they “earned” something that isn’t actually there.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2022 12:01 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Mar 2022 00:01:05 -0500

For Marines, it's a big nono to call all E5s and above just by sergeant. We call every rank by their proper rank

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2022 7:09 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Mar 2022 07:09:54 -0500

I call them SGT just as the reg states. I been in nearly 22 yeArs if they have issue with that then it’s their problem and not mine.

Response by Robert Jewkes made Mar 12 at 2022 10:39 AM

Robert Jewkes — Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:39:39 -0500

But is there ever a place and time to call them MSG? I.E. you have 1sgt Jones and unrelated MSG Jones so you have to be specific Wich one the Corporal is to report to?

Response by MSgt Thelbert (Whitey) Roark made Mar 13 at 2022 1:48 AM

MSgt Thelbert (Whitey) Roark — Sun, 13 Mar 2022 01:48:08 -0500

I never asked or requested anyone call me MSgt. And I don’t recollect anyone addressing me as such. But, then again I’ve been retired since’88.
Could be forgetting a few things.

Response by CW2 Matt Baum made Mar 14 at 2022 9:49 AM

CW2 Matt Baum — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 09:49:47 -0400

My last unit was Aviation & I worked with a MSG who carried his a$$ on his shoulders. He never once called me by my rank, only "Mr", not that I care. I was an O-grade and an NCO...an NCO in the AF, then Army. As a Combat Medic and an Infantry Officer, it didn't seem like a big deal with the MSG thing, but dainty little Aviation sure seemed to get their feeling hurt a lot.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2022 11:39 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2022 23:39:27 -0400

I always got/get pissed when MSGs demanded (and I’ve known a few) to be called Master Sergeant. They often say things like, “I’ve earned it.” or “I deserve to be called by my full title.” In a lot of cases, if I have a lot of respect for the person, I will automatically call them by their full title, sometimes even after being told to call them by their first name (I’m currently in TRADOC, so I have to watch my surroundings a lot). The more a person demands to be given a specific title, especially if it isn’t in the regulatory guidance, the less likely I am to comply.

Response by 1stLt Jon Finstad made Mar 15 at 2022 10:26 AM

1stLt Jon Finstad — Tue, 15 Mar 2022 10:26:55 -0400

I dunno, I ran into one guy who wanted to be called Gunnery Sergeant XXXXX all the time. So, I just called him by his last name. Miffed him a bit, but it was tongue in cheek. We were there to do a job, not quip over little things though.

Response by SGT Michael Dreibelbis made Mar 15 at 2022 11:31 AM

SGT Michael Dreibelbis — Tue, 15 Mar 2022 11:31:10 -0400

You are correct, 1SG. Ego tripping...

Like the REMF SGM who has nothing better to do with his time than harass troops doing PT.

Response by SSG George Duncan made Mar 15 at 2022 10:57 PM

SSG George Duncan — Tue, 15 Mar 2022 22:57:41 -0400

ego

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2022 6:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2022 18:01:37 -0400

I was in 22 yrs never met one of those. I did run into an SFC that was covering down as the acting 1SG. He jumped all over me when I called him SGT. I was also a SFC he still got all wound up about it. So you know he didn't appreciate when I laughed at him.

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Mar 17 at 2022 1:26 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 13:26:20 -0400

There was a Master Sergeant who ran S-1 at Battalion. We called him "Top." He was also Alpha Battery's former 1st Sergeant. I think he was promoted out of S-1 and we lost him when he went to E-9. He also had a drill sergeant patch on his BDU.

Response by SFC Allen Murphy made Mar 17 at 2022 6:47 PM

SFC Allen Murphy — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:47:08 -0400

Response by SSG Franklin Briant made Mar 19 at 2022 1:42 AM

SSG Franklin Briant — Sat, 19 Mar 2022 01:42:16 -0400

Through the 70's and mid 80's the title was master chief sergeant and most were called Chief. When I was active all sergeant were called sergeant unless they were a 1st Sgt. or Sergeant Major. I don't know about now a days.

Response by SMSgt Mike Lage made Apr 17 at 2022 6:14 PM

SMSgt Mike Lage — Sun, 17 Apr 2022 18:14:28 -0400

Didn't really care Master Sergeant or Sergeant but didn't like being called Master.

Response by LTC Ernest Edge made Apr 20 at 2022 7:13 PM

LTC Ernest Edge — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 19:13:04 -0400

I’m a retired Army LTC. I’ve always done it out of respect. Not because I had to. I’d also call you over for a beer!

Response by CMDCM Mike Cisneros made Apr 20 at 2022 10:29 PM

CMDCM Mike Cisneros — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 22:29:13 -0400

Perhaps it’s that way in the Army. Navy and Marine Corps is different. It’s either Chief, Senior Chief or Master Chief. Marine Corps is Gunnery Sergeant, Master Sergeant or 1st Sgt, and finally Sergeant Magor or Master Gunnery Sergeant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2022 6:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Apr 2022 06:48:12 -0400

So...I just had my change of responsibility and am now wearing MSG rank rather than 1SG rank. The Soldiers have been asking, "What do we call you now?" My response is that AR 600-20 says my title of address is Sergeant to which I almost always get the response that that just doesn't feel right. I always tell them that if they call me Master Sergeant I won't be mad, if they call me Sergeant, I can't be mad and if they call me 1SG still I understand that too. I guess my point is that I know they don't mean any disrespect and I am not defined my my pay grade or title. I've never understood Army MSGs who insisted on being called Master Sargeant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2022 10:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:25:57 -0400

That's the way I read the regulation. In the Army you are addressed Sergeant from SGT to MSG, until you earn 1SG rank. I can understand clarifying on phone calls what your rank is, but you shouldn't have to.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Apr 22 at 2022 2:15 PM

PO3 Jake Lucid — Fri, 22 Apr 2022 14:15:01 -0400

I'll weigh in here - in the uscg it's the norm for petty officers to be called petty officer such and such. However informally we call each other by rate (job titles) shorthand. However when addressing senior ncos- "chief petty officer/senior cheif/master chief" get that title correct...your soul depends on it. To me I don't recall the exact by the book number but a chief was a chief and a senior cheif...well they didn't get there by being punks...so senior chief it was, and masters...those mysterious anchors with stars...they walk on water. They get called what ever that specific divinity wished to be called.
In polite working company we shortened it to chief or "senior"...but master chiefs...never. knew them or not, had beers with them or not at work it was master chief. Period.
I don't think it's an ego trip to most. It's a sign they worked hard, Sat their respective boards, put in their time, paid their dues and most often Ben there 20 plus years. If they feel being called master seargent is the price YOU will pay for their achievements...they've earned it.
Don't ha e to like the man in the collar but better not tread on the rank tabs on that collar.

Response by SGT Daniel Merriman made Apr 22 at 2022 4:00 PM

SGT Daniel Merriman — Fri, 22 Apr 2022 16:00:09 -0400

An E8 was TOP when I was in , 75-79 Ft Bragg !

Response by MSG Brian Wiscott made Apr 23 at 2022 4:51 PM

MSG Brian Wiscott — Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:51:14 -0400

As a Retired MSG I never cared if someone called me Master Sergeant or just Sergeant, the issue for me came in with sarge. (Sarge - shortened of Sargent but means wanker)

Response by MSG Dennis Lane made Apr 24 at 2022 1:20 AM

MSG Dennis Lane — Sun, 24 Apr 2022 01:20:09 -0400

insecure seems like the best response. Sergeant is the formal form of address for all noncommissioned officers other than First Sergeant or Sergeant Major. And to that point, it doesn't matter whether you are addressing a Command Sergeant Major or a Staff Sergeant Major, for E-9, the correct form of address is Sergeant Major.
I retired as a Master Sergeant. Some people have addressed me as "top." and while I appreciate the sentiment, even that embarrasses me. "Top" is the First Sergeant, which is a different form of address.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2022 1:23 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Apr 2022 13:23:02 -0400

I never “demanded” to be called Master Sergeant. That said, my time as a Marine spilled over in to my Army service. I referred to MSGs as Master Sergeant unless they were a bag of trash. I looked at it as a courtesy. I preferred to differentiate between SSGs and SFCs as well. When I was a 1SG, I had a SGT try to call me out on it. What a tool. When he made SSG, I still referred to him as Sergeant.

Response by CPT Barry Kaufman made Apr 25 at 2022 4:43 PM

CPT Barry Kaufman — Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:43:44 -0400

In my last 2 positions, I had Master Sergeants in my battery or my operations section. I addressed them as Sergeant, though sometimes as Master Sergeant just for kicks (e.g., Good MORNING, Master Sergeant Jones!). I always referred to them, if I was referring to them to a 3rd party, as Master Sergeant (e.g., yes Bn Cdr, Master Sergeant Knox will be leading the wheeled vehicle convoy). Anyone who spends that much time earning the rank deserves to be addressed and referred to with respect for his or her rank.

Response by Cpl Craig Howard made Apr 25 at 2022 6:07 PM

Cpl Craig Howard — Mon, 25 Apr 2022 18:07:00 -0400

This is one of the differences I see between services. In the Marines, we called all enlisted ranks by their entire proper rank. No SSGT wanted to be called SGT after working for years for that hard earned promotion. That was true up the Line. The main difference was it was fine to call a Gunnery SGT, Gunny. WO's were affectionately called Gunner, and 2nd and 1st LT's and LT COL and COL's were all LT's and COL's. No distinction.

Response by SGT John Overby made Apr 28 at 2022 12:12 PM

SGT John Overby — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 12:12:23 -0400

I had an asshole First that wanted to be addressed as First Sergeant. Had another we called "Top". Had an NCOIC E-8 that was Sergeant Stroh. The last First I had was Sergeant Blue.

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Apr 28 at 2022 11:34 PM

CW3 Charles Morris — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 23:34:11 -0400

Didn't happen in my days (1973-1998), is that a new thing? I will say, however, in the USMC, they view it differently, very differently.

Response by MSgt John Hamilton made Apr 29 at 2022 7:54 AM

MSgt John Hamilton — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 07:54:15 -0400

After viewing all the comments about to call an Army Master Sergeant, I am so glad that I was promoted to Master Sergeant as a Marine.

Top H

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Apr 29 at 2022 10:10 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 22:10:21 -0400

With that said, you might not get the same insistence from somebody who's family name is "Baiter."

Response by Capt Mark Miller made Apr 30 at 2022 12:45 AM

Capt Mark Miller — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 00:45:35 -0400

I have called a CMSGT Chief as a sign of respect when I was on active duty.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Apr 30 at 2022 7:54 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:54:56 -0400

The proper address was always Sergeant before and that was fine. If someone's ego is so sensitive they need to have a fancier title to be addressed to it seems they have an ego problem. Respect of course is proper towards any member of our armed force and I tend to use Sir or Mam more than rank addresses including those I outrank, We are ALL members of the same team aren't We ? Other than First Sergeant or Sergeant Major even chief Master Sergeant which usually just the word "Chief" worked or the same for levels of rank within a tile for example, Lt. Colonel or Colonel to both be addressed as Colonel or Sir will work also. Respect involves a lot more than just the formal address for a sensitive ego or insecurity or someone that seems to need a royal title. Don't call Me late for chow though, I need My dinner !

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 30 at 2022 2:59 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:59:20 -0400

1SG Private RallyPoint Member "My question SPECIFICALLY addresses those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation and what their motivation could be for doing so."

Id say because it's what they know (learned, observed, taught..AKA ignorance of the regulation.) I never corrected anyone using the address, no more than I did if one were to call a 1SG "Top", and the 1SG was not bothered by it.

But I had discussions with more than a few master sergeants who were addressed as "Sergeant" and the MSG responded with "Its MASTER SERGEANT"

......Ahhh, SERGEANT can I have a word with you over here, please.

Response by MSgt Earl King made Apr 30 at 2022 4:17 PM

MSgt Earl King — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:17:33 -0400

As a Marine, 1stsgt, Master Sargent, Master Gunnery Sargent, Sargent Major, Sargent Major of the Marine Corps. Staff Sargent, Gunnery Sargent, so it's not affirmation , it's respect of a title earned, like the title MARINE. If a Sargent is standing next to you-E-5 and you are a Sargent E-8 and the Commanding Officer calls both of you into his office and treated both of you as equals, you two Sergeants get your butts in here and stand at attention. AR 600-20 is clear but not to you!!

Response by SPC Edward Abney made Apr 30 at 2022 7:24 PM

SPC Edward Abney — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:24:04 -0400

How about, just "Sarge"
/s

Response by CWO4 Miles Weaver made Apr 30 at 2022 10:42 PM

CWO4 Miles Weaver — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:42:58 -0400

It doesn't really matter that it doesn't hold water for you and the fact is, they DID earn it.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 1 at 2022 12:30 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sun, 01 May 2022 00:30:41 -0400

My Guess Would Be "PRIDE" In Their Achievements And To Have Reached Such A High Enlisted Rank.

It Wasn't Very Easy Reaching That Height.
My Congratulations To Them ALL.

It Might Even Be Similar To An Officer Reaching The Rank Of "Full Bird Coronal"...

Response by Sgt Karen Schleif made May 1 at 2022 9:33 PM

Sgt Karen Schleif — Sun, 01 May 2022 21:33:29 -0400

Ask them. The rest of us would just be guessing.

Response by LtCol Will Wickun made May 13 at 2022 6:42 PM

LtCol Will Wickun — Fri, 13 May 2022 18:42:13 -0400

As a Marine, I address MSgts that I know as Top. But, NEVER, EVER refer to a 1stSgt as Top!!

Response by SPC David Giffen made May 28 at 2022 7:56 PM

SPC David Giffen — Sat, 28 May 2022 19:56:09 -0400

Because when they where in basic training they where taught that MSGs are addressed as MSG and SMs and CSMs are addressed as Sergeant Major. Mind you this would been the 1980s and 1990s. Not sure if this is still taught.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made May 28 at 2022 9:00 PM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Sat, 28 May 2022 21:00:19 -0400

Huh, this brings back a memory. I was the company clerk at an infantry unit and got a call from the Battalion Master Sergeant. I addressed him as Sergeant and he got royally pissed off. "Do you know what my rank is"? "Master Sergeant", I replied. "So try again". "Okay, Master Sargent" "That's better". He was pissed. I was an E-3 know nothing with no intention of staying past my 2 year enlistment. I'll call you "whale shit at the bottom of the ocean" if that's what you prefer. Always addressed everyone with whatever they wanted to be called. But I did lose a lot of respect for him because of that conversation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 8:20 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 May 2022 08:20:08 -0400

Have noted to my troops there's three SGTs. SGT, 1SG, Seargants Major. Was a board question so it must be true!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2022 1:24 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 May 2022 13:24:54 -0400

Personally, I dont care. You hit it right in the head, with the regulation. The title for MSG is Sergeant. In my opinion Soldiers who wanted to be address as "Master Sergeant" feels entitled or felt like they lost their uniqueness. Especially the ones who just completed their diamond time. There's more important things to be worried about than get all bent up because someone called me a SGT instead of MSG.

Response by SGT Jeff Bush made May 30 at 2022 11:43 AM

SGT Jeff Bush — Mon, 30 May 2022 11:43:55 -0400

Because they think their ego supersedes the regs

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made May 30 at 2022 2:00 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Mon, 30 May 2022 14:00:27 -0400

Same as in the Navy with a Master Chief vs a Senior Chief vs a Chief. No one who is an E4 thru E6 (3rd class to 1st class petty officer) gets bent out of shape when you address either as “Petty Officer” but don’t you dare call out to the E7-E9’s “Hey Chief”
You’ll get reamed & told their correct rank.

Response by MSgt Frank Askins made May 31 at 2022 10:32 PM

MSgt Frank Askins — Tue, 31 May 2022 22:32:06 -0400

I always thought it was their need to feed their ego. As a Senior NCO myself, I, like many others, I would make it a point to call them Sarge! On another note, I'll share the coolest "what to call me story".

I worked with a Master Sergeant who used the following as an ice breaker for classes we taught. I've changed his first name but the last name is real. He would write the following on the chalk board and begin his instruction:

MASTER SERGEANT JACK BATEN

"Because I outrank a "sergeant" don't call me "Sergeant"! and he would cross out "sergeant" leaving "MASTER JACK BATEN".

"Because you don't know me well enough, you may not call me "Jack" and he would cross out "Jack" leaving MASTER BATEN. He would then say "you may call me whatever is left"!

It was one of the most effective icebreakers I've ever encountered and always put the class at ease.

Response by Capt Ken Bergeron made Jun 2 at 2022 10:16 PM

Capt Ken Bergeron — Thu, 02 Jun 2022 22:16:38 -0400

It is simply an ego thing.

Response by SGT Jerry Walker made Jun 5 at 2022 10:37 AM

SGT Jerry Walker — Sun, 05 Jun 2022 10:37:47 -0400

My answer is simple, just make the correction and move on. In my eight years in the Army, I met most that were okay with "srgeant" and a few who were a little "high-minded" about themselves. I just mentally remember then to call him Master Sergeant. Worked for me, anyway.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2022 9:26 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jul 2022 09:26:17 -0400

I was a MSG. I Would remind soldiers that there are four ways to address an NCO and Master Sergeant isn’t one of them.

Response by CPL Thaddeus Humiston made Jul 4 at 2022 6:54 PM

CPL Thaddeus Humiston — Mon, 04 Jul 2022 18:54:34 -0400

Thanks old man, glad to hear there's still one of you out there. Loved (94B) my job didn't care much for the army, took ten years to figure that out.

Response by PO1 David M Burns made Jul 8 at 2022 9:08 PM

PO1 David M Burns — Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:08:27 -0400

the army nco ranks start with Sgt E-4 and go up from there. so when you get to Master Sergeant E-7 it is a RANK.don't you have anything better to do?

Response by MAJ Steve Warnerski made Jul 9 at 2022 11:04 AM

MAJ Steve Warnerski — Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:04:19 -0400

The AR is defining on this. But - I always tried to refer to them as "Master Sergeant." And you are 100% right - most are secure enough that they don't act childish and request to be called something that the AR doesn't require.

Response by SFC Howard Holmes made Jul 10 at 2022 2:48 AM

SFC Howard Holmes — Sun, 10 Jul 2022 02:48:23 -0400

If you think calling a Msg by full name, I was a young buck Sgt. and was at Camp LeJuene. I was in the chow hall, the mess Sgt. slopped my tray and I said, "Thank You Sgt." He went running all the way down his side of the line and all the way back to where I was and started yelling at the top of his lungs about how I have to address him as Gunny, or Gunnery Sgt. This went on for about five minutes, and it was really silly. I always learned, okay, the first time make the correction on the spot and carry on. He saw I was in an Army uniform, and all he had to do was say across the serving line, is "address me as..." I thought the vein in his neck was going to explode. It was quite hilarious. Think a smaller version of GSGT Carter from Gomer Pyle.

Response by SGT Ira Johnson made Jul 10 at 2022 10:58 PM

SGT Ira Johnson — Sun, 10 Jul 2022 22:58:33 -0400

Master Sergeant is too awkward to say, especially in a long conversation.

Response by A1C Cynthia Garringer made Jul 11 at 2022 8:34 AM

A1C Cynthia Garringer — Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:34:08 -0400

Because they frigging earned it!

Response by A1C Cynthia Garringer made Jul 11 at 2022 8:34 AM

A1C Cynthia Garringer — Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:34:42 -0400

Because they frigging earned it!

Response by CWO3 Jim Grindstaff made Jul 11 at 2022 12:40 PM

CWO3 Jim Grindstaff — Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:40:45 -0400

So, your personal opinion is that they do it due to ego. “…The remainder is just ignorance.”
That says a lot about your own ego.

Response by SPC Joel Butler made Jul 11 at 2022 2:22 PM

SPC Joel Butler — Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:22:47 -0400

When I was enlisted and encountered a MSG, I always referred to them as "Sergeant" and never got dusted off. I later heard my 1SG refer to a MSG from BN as "Master Sergeant" so I foolishly asked him about it. After my 1SG smoked me he told me that it's proper to refer to a Master Sergeant as such when they had previously had a diamond. It never really made sense to me, to be honest. So, while I personally never encountered a MSG that insisted on being called "Master Sergeant", it would not surprise me at all to hear that there are those out there that demand it.

Response by MSG(P) Thomas Finn made Jul 13 at 2022 11:48 PM

MSG(P) Thomas Finn — Wed, 13 Jul 2022 23:48:25 -0400

This argument is not worthy. Everyone knows it is a sign of respect.

Response by MSgt Joseph Townsend made Jul 14 at 2022 4:03 PM

MSgt Joseph Townsend — Thu, 14 Jul 2022 16:03:10 -0400

An ego thing in my opinion . I am a retired MSGT an rarely was referred to verbally.

Response by Sgt Stephen Chiles made Jul 15 at 2022 2:38 AM

Sgt Stephen Chiles — Fri, 15 Jul 2022 02:38:15 -0400

Having been out of the military for so long, the only time I recall having to do that was first in basic training or formal gatherings when introducing someone and using their proper rank. Even with LTC or Full Bird, unless it was a formal circumstance, they were Col. But hey, my memory of those days has begun to fade a bit, lol.

What I do find funny is that my youngest brother attained CMSgt and different times I visited him at Wright-Patterson AFB and Warner-Robbins AFB. Those that worked for him, as well as the Col. and Maj. Gen. he worked for just called him Chief in less formal settings.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Jul 15 at 2022 12:45 PM

SFC Wade Adams — Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:45:07 -0400

I’m a retired SFC, I didn’t get that either when I was in. I got my ass chewed severely. I pointed out the regulation on this. After that, I purposely addressed them as Sargent. I was told once , “ I’m way passed E-5!” Well, if you consider yourself a pay grade

Response by MSG Brenda Neal made Jul 17 at 2022 12:24 AM

MSG Brenda Neal — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 00:24:29 -0400

Are you called Sarge, or Sergeant or 1st Sergeant? Does Master sound better than First? You must meet a lot of MSGs with egos like yours to put INSIST in caps. I've never asked to be called anything in my supervisory positions. I was addressed that way out of respect for my ability to be a leader, teacher and a good example. I just happened to be a woman that chose to be better than what was necessary to slide by. If it is someone obviously better that's in front of you it's a mute point. It was probably a 1st Sergeant that wrote the reg.

Response by SPC James Cooke made Jul 17 at 2022 7:17 PM

SPC James Cooke — Sun, 17 Jul 2022 19:17:41 -0400

Sergeant. First Sergeant. [Command] Sergeant Major.

Response by LTC Charles T Dalbec made Jul 31 at 2022 11:27 PM

LTC Charles T Dalbec — Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:27:31 -0400

Hooah!!’n

Response by SFC Thomas Butler made Aug 1 at 2022 11:25 AM

SFC Thomas Butler — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 11:25:58 -0400

It's pure ego. Nothing less.

Response by PO1 Sam Deel made Aug 1 at 2022 2:45 PM

PO1 Sam Deel — Mon, 01 Aug 2022 14:45:02 -0400

Because they earned the Respect to hold that title to their Rank. In my Squadron, we often correct the Juniors when they addressed E-6 as Petty Officer, when the proper title of that Rank is Petty Officer First Class. While we routinely addressed a Chief Petty Officer as Chief, we always addressed an E-8 as Senior Chief and E-9 as Master Chief.

Response by SSG Rick Reeder made Aug 2 at 2022 12:28 PM

SSG Rick Reeder — Tue, 02 Aug 2022 12:28:50 -0400

There are several thigs to call a Master Sergeant. I have called some Sergeant, Sarg, Master Sergeant. A Master Sergeant is the same pay grade as a 1st Sergeant.1st Sergeants are call Top, Top Kick, and 1st Sergeant. Those nicknames were around long before you were born. Being called Master Sergeant distinguishes it from being called 1st Sergeant, Just like LT distinguishes fro m being called Captain.

Response by SSG Michael Schneider made Aug 30 at 2022 4:11 PM

SSG Michael Schneider — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 16:11:43 -0400

When I became a Sergeant and then a Staff Sergeant my men always referred to me simply as 'Sarge' and it never once ever bothered me!

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 30 at 2022 6:46 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 18:46:40 -0400

It's just that Master Sergeant don't have as much prestige as First Serhesnt in the
US Army.

Response by SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM made Aug 30 at 2022 8:32 PM

SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:32:18 -0400

The rank of Master Sergeant does not the prestige of the rank of First Sergeant.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Aug 30 at 2022 8:43 PM

SMSgt Sheila Berg — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:43:23 -0400

Everyone has there personal preference. It's a matter of respect. Maybe hey you is more suitable. Attaching a nomiler of insecurity means you know the operation of someone's mind!

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Aug 30 at 2022 10:41 PM

MSgt Don Dobbs — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 22:41:20 -0400

In the USAF all NCO's E5 through E8 are addressed as Sergeant with the exception of E9 Chief Master Sergeant or "Chief". The top 3 E7, 8, and 9 are Titled as Master Sgt, Senior Master Sgt, and Chief Master Sgt. They are all Supervisory positions and are the Top of their career fields. The Air Force has skill levels in each AFSC (MOS) These are 3, 5, 7, and 9 only the top three can hold the 9 of superintendent level. 3 is apprentice, 5 is specialist, 7 is technician, and 9 Superintendent. So when you see and AFSC 11X01 or 1F0X9 the x would represent the skill level. At least that's the way it was in 1995 when I retired. each of these skill levels are earned and take years to achive.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2022 12:00 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 00:00:43 -0400

Mine stopped me and asked why I said master sergeant. I said- cuz you are, mass sarnt. And I was instructed by other MSG in the company to refer to them as such. He told me it's against regs. Everyone's a sergeant until 1sgt. And they're bussy little pitches and tell him next time they do so he can ream them out.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Aug 31 at 2022 8:34 AM

1SG James Kelly — Wed, 31 Aug 2022 08:34:07 -0400

Does that go for officers also?

Response by SGM William Gabbard made Sep 1 at 2022 8:55 AM

SGM William Gabbard — Thu, 01 Sep 2022 08:55:19 -0400

I think the old joke is most illuminating. “Hi, my name is Master Sergeant Jones. You can call me by my first name. Master.”

Oh, and that “My name is (Rank) Name.” That’s something for an entirely new thread.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2022 9:38 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2022 09:38:28 -0400

I had plenty of Soldiers approach me and the question went "Master Sergeant, why does Sergeant Other Guy insist on us calling him 'Master' Sergeant? According to regulation, his title should be 'Sergeant'?". I told them it was a common misconception. I do not like belittling other NCOs to Soldiers, sets a bad example. Personally, just like others, I never required anyone to call me MSG. I also tried correcting it but it got tedious. Soldiers chose to call me MSG, I assume out of respect. MSG Other Guy was an egotistical sort and was insecure in his position and abilities. Should it change? I'm retired so either way it won't buy me coffee. But in the Army, we don't call SSGs Staff Sergeants or SFCs Sergeant First Classes. If we make the change for one, it should be for all. I was, however, throw aback when a retired gate guard called me "Smoke" when as a SFC, I first arrived at Fort Sill. Not being FA, that one snuck up on me.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2022 6:56 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Sep 2022 18:56:11 -0400

As I read it the only MSG by rank allowed to be called anything but Sgt. are the ones in position of 1st Sgt. and only when in the position of 1st Sgt. Otherwise they are to be called Sgt.. Period. So in my opinion its ego and they need to be corrected. Wouldn't technically be Stolen Valor for them to claim to be a rank they are NOT.
Where I live we have a gov. that claimed just that.

Response by AA Loreen Silvarahawk made Sep 3 at 2022 8:08 AM

AA Loreen Silvarahawk — Sat, 03 Sep 2022 08:08:37 -0400

Respect in all things and depends on which branch one is speaking about.

Response by SP5 Dennis Loberger made Sep 9 at 2022 9:38 PM

SP5 Dennis Loberger — Fri, 09 Sep 2022 21:38:19 -0400

I never ran into that

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 12 at 2022 9:26 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Sep 2022 09:26:17 -0400

Going by the comments I've read, only the Marine Corps stands on formality on this subject. Going by other comments, the other branches of the service, (especially the Army), just don't care. And if I'm not mistaken, the Air Force is even more relaxed than the Army on this subject. But in the Marines, if you know what's good for you, it's by the book.

Response by SFC Terry Wilcox made Sep 12 at 2022 6:05 PM

SFC Terry Wilcox — Mon, 12 Sep 2022 18:05:02 -0400

Why did you post yourself as 1SG? I address myself as SFC, and most of the rest identify ourselves via rank. As you posted - "Because we earned it" - Some the hard way - some by attrition - some by other means.

Response by SSgt Eugene Newman made Oct 6 at 2022 11:13 AM

SSgt Eugene Newman — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 11:13:39 -0400

About 10 years after getting out of the USAF, an old buddy bumped into me and said, "Hi Sarge!"
It brightened my day and we had a long talk about our Korean tour, mostly about the good days.

Response by SGT Timothy Posemato made Oct 6 at 2022 4:18 PM

SGT Timothy Posemato — Thu, 06 Oct 2022 16:18:29 -0400

It's a matter of respect. When I was in back in the early 70's it seemed like everyone above SFC was called by their formal rank, 1stSgt was called 1stSgt or TOP, MSG was called master Sargeant. E7 down to E5 was just plain old sarge. Maybe it was different back then to now, but it's just a matter of respect. But, that's just opinion.

Response by 1SG Chip Perretta made Oct 7 at 2022 10:34 AM

1SG Chip Perretta — Fri, 07 Oct 2022 10:34:49 -0400

My ID says Master Sargeant on it. I usually wear a First Sergeant insignia on my hat. I know I shouldn't (technically) but I have a Very good reason. In 1990 I was a First Sergeant for a DISCOM unit in the 10th Mountain Division. It was a job I was very proud of. In the September or October '90 we received a new soldier. She was there, on active duty, because, as she explained, she'd joined and was in AIT slated to go to her home state's National Guard. When Operation Desert Storm occurred she was called into the in-service recruiter's office and informed that her national guard unit had been chosen to deploy to Iraq. She was told she'd probably go to war as soon as she finished. He said "of course if you changed to 10th Mountain, active duty, they're not slated to be deployed and you won't go." She, having joined only because of education benefits, jumped at the chance to not having to put her life on the line. After about 4 months, I was called into my Sergeant Majors office. He informed me that the CID had told him one of my soldiers had been accused of rape. The young man was my supply clerk. He was a young African-American who had the personality you couldn't help to like. The alleged victim, you guessed it, "Miss National Guard." For the next few months I was constantly harassed by not only my Sgt. Maj. but the other 1sg's in my battalion. Of course my clerk had come in to talk with me and with tears in his eyes told me the story of a girl who had called and invited him to her room in the barracks. He explained that he'd been very naive and when she started her seduction he'd been overcome and acquiesced to her every suggestion. I believed him! Of course my peers continued with their barrage of name calling, like scum, degenerate, and things to vile to mention. I was under so much stress that I was doubting my every decision. This went on as I got closer to my due rotation date. About a month before my deployment to Panama, I got a call from the CID, I needed to come to their office. They said their investigation into the rape case had ended. I told them that I still had faith in my clerk. The agent looked at me and said "so do we!" They push a sheet of paper at me and told me to read it. It was a new statement from my female soldier. In it she told the true story of how she had called him to her room because she had wanted sex. She told of his inexperience and how she had to guide him to do things I am too embarrassed to say aloud. After the session, she devised a plan to get her out of her 3 year commitment. She figured if she cried rape, she'd be believed and she could claim she was so emotionally damaged that the Army was sure to release her. The weight that came off my shoulders that day was so real I felt relaxed for the first time in a long time. I went back to my office and called my clerk in to inform him of the end of his nightmare. (And mine!) On the weekly 1sgt's meeting the Sgt Maj, told everyone the results of investigation. With sheepish looks they mumbled something that I took as an apology. Just days before I left, my admin clerk came to me with a piece of paper in his hand. It was my orders signifying my new designation of 63Z with the H identifier making it formal, I was a legal First Sergeant! He's name was Ralph and he looked at me and informed me that all it required was the CO's signature. He then looked at the trash can and knowing what I'd been through, told me, it could be lost. I said "what could be lost?" In retrospect I look back at that moment in my life and regret that I hadn't the courage to have that paper signed so my card would tell the truth. I wear the diamond because it reminds me of a time I stood by a person I trusted and felt vindicated of that trust a soldier gave me and my support of the truth. I was after all, his First Sergeant!

Response by SPC Kenneth James made Oct 9 at 2022 1:22 AM

SPC Kenneth James — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 01:22:25 -0400

I don't know what but maybe just maybe I am a crackpot but didn't the United States Army made the rank and not the master sergeant him self so if the army made the rank I would guess they did it fora reason what is it with finding trivial crap to cry about with everything going on we are worried why the army made the rank of master sergeant and to the few that worked to get to master sergeant as hard as you worked for that you bring it down so low that you say you don't care wow were are we going anymore please believe I don't normally write this bad just check out my comments on other places on here but something like this and should we have to salute officers my God are you kidding me years and years of tradition respect you want it to all go away because why if you can honestly give me one great reason why this bugs you then I will concede but the traditions of all of the fallen soldiers in every single war does not deserve this crap

Response by SPC Phil Norton made Oct 9 at 2022 9:41 AM

SPC Phil Norton — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 09:41:47 -0400

I addressed my MSG as Master Sergeant simply because my CSM demanded it of me. So because it wasn’t an unlawful order I followed that. Now when the CSM wasn’t around it was just Sergeant. However if the MSG wanted to be addressed by title I would do that again not unlawful do what the ranking person says. I never had a problem either way MSG is really just a 1st SGT with no command. I also called all my 1st SGT Top so really the point is just call ‘‘em what they want. Because the lower enlisted couldn’t give 2 turds how any Senior NCO wants to be addressed.

Response by SPC Norm Gallaher made Oct 9 at 2022 10:38 AM

SPC Norm Gallaher — Sun, 09 Oct 2022 10:38:30 -0400

Similar to Lt. Colonel and full Colonel. Always referred to them each as Colonel unless one of each was present.

Response by SPC Ramon Cruz made Oct 10 at 2022 8:42 AM

SPC Ramon Cruz — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 08:42:30 -0400

I don't know but I was working as a traveling Medical Laboratory Technician in a small hospital and there was a retired MSgt who was a patient and also ate at the cafeteria alot. I forget exactly how it happened but he has a Veteran cap on and I called him Sgt. My coworkers were pretty entertained because he did the whole I am MSgt so and so and you will respect my rank and locked me up. They said they never saw me stand up so straight.

Response by GySgt Troy Wiltshire made Oct 10 at 2022 9:29 AM

GySgt Troy Wiltshire — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 09:29:24 -0400

I always wondered why SNCO’s in the Army allowed the laziness and disrespect of their subordinates, but I never imagined that it was written into your regulations. There are no words to express how disturbing and appalling that is! Then the comments in here from senior Soldiers putting down those who want the respect of their rank…is the rank of MSG just handed out and not earned? Instead of putting down those who demand respect maybe you should work on changing Army regulation to get rid of laziness and disrespect and encourage intensity and respect! I am a Marine that’s been retired for almost five years now, and I usually just blended in to the general population when I was active, and I do understand that some individuals do get promoted that don’t deserve it, but this is just majorly disappointing. You don’t address them by their full rank because you respect that particular individual, you address them by their rank because you respect that rank itself and what it stands for and means and what it took to get to. This same laziness and disrespect is rampant in the civilian population because parents and just adults in general have not demanded the respect of children, so now we have a bunch of entitled brats running around killing our own country. The armed services should be the one place that remains steadfast in the demanding of respect for things that should be respected and to not allow laziness, maybe if all the services did that then it would start to bleed over into the civilian sector. Instead we all tend to just get slimy as the culture degrades just to, what? Fit in, keep up recruiting, just be lazy ourselves…

Response by SPC Brian Stephens made Oct 10 at 2022 1:15 PM

SPC Brian Stephens — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 13:15:13 -0400

It could be ego. On the other hand, some of the younger Master Sergeants may not yet have been assigned to a company as a 1st Sergeant. At least not yet. On my end, lower enlisted, how the hell would I know? E-8, no matter what it is, is one of the most senior ranks that signifies at least nearly a couple of decades of experience. If I call them Top and I get dropped for 20, I'm fine with it.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Oct 10 at 2022 10:34 PM

SFC Larry Jones — Mon, 10 Oct 2022 22:34:41 -0400

I'm 68, been retired for 27 years and in my 20+ years of Army service, I never once had a MSG correct me when I addressed him/her as Sergeant. I venture those who are now insisting on it are considerably younger than I am and are quite ignorant as to how the Army does things. That is to say, they need to familiarize themselves with AR 600-20 and quit wasting people's time on trivialities.

Response by SSG Jack Scott made Oct 11 at 2022 2:25 PM

SSG Jack Scott — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 14:25:32 -0400

It’s called their rank Master sergeant! Only the US Army disrespects sergeant and NCO ranks! All other branch’s refer to NCO’s rank by The proper title! I always felt for the Army it was laziness to referred somebody by the proper rank! Call a Master Chief, Chief and prepare yourself for the onslaught of reprisal! When I Joined the Army after the MARINES I addressed Master sergeant by the proper rank not Sarg or sergeant! Show the proper respect they earned you haven’t yet!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2022 8:33 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Oct 2022 20:33:27 -0400

Wow. I don't see the good in someone going out of their way of not addressing an individual by the rank on their warrant. I can see how long titles could be cumbersome in combat but in peace time, it helps to promote morale, trust, good order and discipline. In the Marines, this was the least of our problems.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Oct 13 at 2022 2:40 PM

CPT Kurk Harris — Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:40:51 -0400

I only ran across one who expected to be called Master Sergeant. I made it a point to address him as Sergeant. He never said anything to me, but did to subordinates who worked in the 3 shop with him. Guess he figured he could hurt them for not stroking his ego, but fortunately I didn’t have to deal with it.

Response by SPC Linda Chandler made Oct 14 at 2022 8:36 AM

SPC Linda Chandler — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 08:36:38 -0400

Hello everyone I would first like to Thank everyone who sent their sentiments in regards to the friend of mine who was murdered a few weeks ago thank you for your kind words. When we give so much of our selves our lives to save lives just hurt so much to see somebody who gave so much and so much more to give killed for nothing.

Response by SPC Linda Chandler made Oct 14 at 2022 8:41 AM

SPC Linda Chandler — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 08:41:22 -0400

As for the Master Sgt,, I still work with the military the army at that fact and win a master sergeant comes in regardless if he’s retired or not I called him master sergeant because I’ve been in the military since I was born army brat and all.
This is the way I see it. They work all their lives to achieve master sergeant, that it becomes a part of them. So they deserve it. It’s just not a sign of respect it’s deeper because as sergeants it slowly gets built in. It’s part of them. Kind of like their DNA.
If you don’t want to call them that so be it but imagine how you would feel finally getting the title of master sergeant and then retiring would still not feeling.

Response by MSgt Thomas O'Rourke made Oct 14 at 2022 12:39 PM

MSgt Thomas O'Rourke — Fri, 14 Oct 2022 12:39:41 -0400

Achieving MSG is a career milestone and out of deference and military courtesy that title should be honored.

Response by 1SG Mark Rodgers made Oct 15 at 2022 9:56 AM

1SG Mark Rodgers — Sat, 15 Oct 2022 09:56:57 -0400

My dad, an Air Force vet, always called me Sarge. I didn't mind one bit because he was talking, which he was notoriously known to be quiet. At one point on the few trips I went on with him alone, I finally figured out how he ticked. He had conversations that didn't include others. It was him in his head having at least a two person conversation.

Response by LCDR Jonathan Roudabush made Oct 15 at 2022 7:39 PM

LCDR Jonathan Roudabush — Sat, 15 Oct 2022 19:39:36 -0400

After I was medically retired as a LCDR I just didn't care what anyone addressed me as, "Hey You" works. Just do not call me Commander, a rank I did not achieve or rate. I am not active duty and really prefer not to be called by my former rank. But I don't feel slighted by Vets or active duty calling me anything (still don't like Boomer or pollywog. I am a boomer, a Shellback, and a Bluenose) I show Respect to all the Top Sergeants and Chiefs out there and I always call a chief a chief, Senior Chief or Master chief. They are salts of a different caliber and deserve it retired or not.
Same with Commanders or above. Ltcol+.

Response by SFC Edward Sneed made Oct 17 at 2022 2:00 AM

SFC Edward Sneed — Mon, 17 Oct 2022 02:00:53 -0400

Well, if the situation calls for it, like in a professional environment and to show some respect, which is what this world is lacking, I'd say ANY senior NCO should be called be his/her rightful ranking! There's really nothing hard about that and it doesn't take anything away from anyone for doing or saying it! My banking representatives call me by my full rank, and I don't have a problem with it at all! I just feel that people are too uptight about things and think their freedom of speech has no consequences!

Response by SFC Cheryl Brightman made Nov 5 at 2022 3:17 PM

SFC Cheryl Brightman — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 15:17:32 -0400

Wonderful!

Response by MSG Robert Corriveau made Nov 5 at 2022 7:48 PM

MSG Robert Corriveau — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 19:48:36 -0400

As a USA, MSG (Ret) having been retired for 22+ years now I have never heard of such horse hockey, In fact I find it strange anytime I call my Credit Union (APGFCU) and they address me as Master Sergeant. If a Master Sergeant is requiring and/or even allowing his subordinates to address him/her as Master Sergeant they are most assuredly having some issues. But hey I retired a LONG LONG time ago and maybe things are a bit different these days, some of the crap I read these days about our current military scares the crap out of me! I hope to God these stories are not real, but some of the sources are pretty damn spot on most times.

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made Nov 5 at 2022 11:29 PM

CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 23:29:50 -0400

It’s what I was taught years ago and is still needed. You Respect the Rank, Title, or Position regardless of whether you respect the person. It goes hand in hand with Order, Discipline, and Decor. It’s not an Ego thing! Just my humble opinion!!! Respectfully Submitted, Doc

Response by CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw made Nov 5 at 2022 11:35 PM

CMDCM John F. "Doc" Bradshaw — Sat, 05 Nov 2022 23:35:42 -0400

It’s what I was taught years ago and is still need in our newly diverse military. It’s the Respect of the Rank, Title, or Position held regardless of whether you respect the individual or not. It’s important to maintain Good Order, Discipline, and Proper Decor. In our Chain of Commands. It’s not an Ego things or shouldn’t be! Just my humble opinion!!! Respectfully Submitted, Doc

Response by SGT Malcolm Haynes made Nov 6 at 2022 6:18 PM

SGT Malcolm Haynes — Sun, 06 Nov 2022 18:18:31 -0500

E-5

Response by Maj Gordon Hunter made Nov 7 at 2022 12:30 AM

Maj Gordon Hunter — Mon, 07 Nov 2022 00:30:46 -0500

Because the military is a giant RHIP (Rank has its privileges) environment where we are encouraged and even urged to put down anyone below us on the food chain?

Response by SFC Jacquelyn Taylor made Nov 7 at 2022 6:55 AM

SFC Jacquelyn Taylor — Mon, 07 Nov 2022 06:55:35 -0500

What has changed since I served in 1992? Time and view points. I see a complete change in social viewpoints than when it seemed to be much clearer during my service period. To effectively answer this question for me, I'd like to know the answer to my question first which is: Is the rank of MSG revered in respect when addressed or is s/he addressed as any other title of "Sergeant." Nothing changed in the regulation, but it was to understand that the experience, knowledge of that rank was recognized back then as such. It was a weird relationship back in the 70's when the senior NCO's ran the enlisted activities. We had CO's (1st LT or Cpt) and XO's (usually 2LT's straight out of school) and everyone knew who was really in charge, the MSG's, SFC's and the SSGs. The unspoken respect even Majors gave these ranks in getting the jobs done was understood. By rank, structure they outranked the senior enlisted, hands down, but the relationship between the ranks was delicate, held by respect for time in service. It took "YEARS" to achieve higher enlisted ranks, sometimes longer than it took to make MAJ. Officers and lower enlisted alike acknowledged and respected that fact. So, if you choose to neglect this fact then your answer will be flawed as it only addresses what it sees now. . . definitions and AR's on rank, but the relationship, based on time in service, grade and respect, played a major part in keeping things going. I don't think achievement is as much about ego as it is endurance.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2022 12:19 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2022 12:19:47 -0500

It will vary from Soldier to Soldier for those of us Master Sergeants who like the title. The regulation is specific but doesn’t prohibit one from being addressed at such. My Soldiers and my leaders addressed me as such partly because of the (rhymes with spit) I had to go through just to get there.

Response by PFC Edgar Mosier made Nov 8 at 2022 2:45 PM

PFC Edgar Mosier — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 14:45:42 -0500

I might be mistaken, but that or some other AR seems to allow disrespect to those "PRIVATES" that have earned the "honor" of the rank of E-3, aka Private First Class.
I bought a UMCJ Article 15, for demanding my actual rank respect from a buck Sargent.
Rank never made any real Soldier, no "leader", no actual human being: Don't believe me? Ask the Ft. Hood Commanding General why he attempted deflecting His failure to protect all members of His Command, when He pointed to an incomplete investigation (Criminal) of a Soldier that had died due to Gross Medical Neglect under His watch...
God Bless Our Caring Soldiers, regardless of their rank(s).
AMEN.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Nov 9 at 2022 12:31 AM

SPC Robert Bobo — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 00:31:01 -0500

I remember a clown that demanded he be called LTC, rank or title doesn't make you a leader , try earning the respect of your team, I was a Sr. VP, at no time did I ever require my team use my title however, that said if "full rank" is required you should comply , life's to short pick your battles

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2022 2:21 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 14:21:28 -0500

"Sup Top...lots of good comments over the months. If I were to call the two MSGs in our BDE-Lvl HQ "Sergeant..." I think one would not care; one would greatly care and feel insulted, harassed, degraded. My perspective: Regs say "Sergeant". IF a MSG is in a leadership billet (what we used to call "green-tab" positions") like a Detachment NCOIC or a Senior Enlisted Advisor to a commander, then calling them "Top" is appropriate, and Master Sergeant is a sign of positional authority and respect. If they are a HQ Section NCOIC, then follow the regs and wait for a "Hurt Feelings Report" or EO complaint because some of these NCOs think they are peers to the First Sergeant. I prefer to keep the peace and show respect to all...until someone starts crap. P.S. Be nice to everyone...it is a small crowd at the top.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made Nov 9 at 2022 8:04 PM

CSM Thomas McGarry — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 20:04:52 -0500

Because they're not Sergeant Majors?

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Nov 10 at 2022 12:50 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 12:50:03 -0500

Quite frankly for the very same reason you address your Sergeants Major, Sergeant Major, they’ve earned the title…. Now ask yourself why you deserve a diamond? Same salutation would probably be assumed, but then again, I’m not one who likes the word assume. And why is this a topic from a First Sergeant??? Did another Master Sergeant rub you wrong? Last I looked, grade of E-8 was the same, so where’s the argument, one is a technician, the other a leader.
So glad I’m not in the game anymore…

Response by MSG Scott Johnson made Nov 13 at 2022 3:15 PM

MSG Scott Johnson — Sun, 13 Nov 2022 15:15:26 -0500

As a current Army Master Sergeant, I don't care if they call me Master Sergeant, or Sergeant. I don't know of any of my peers that "require" it. I believe most of my Soldiers who do, are just trying to show me respect.

Response by CSM Christopher St. Cyr made Nov 14 at 2022 3:10 AM

CSM Christopher St. Cyr — Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:10:04 -0500

Recently, I've noticed a number of Soldiers address me as Command Sergeant Major. They look bewildered when I tell them to address SGM and CSM as Sergeant Major. Even the Sergeant Major of the Army is addressed as Sergeant Major. There were a number of times on the General's Staff as the G4 SGM, I was addressed by some as 1SG. Few Soldiers see SGM so it is easy to make the mistake. I have seen a number of MSG correct junior enlisted when they were addressed as Sergeant instead of Master Sergeant. I always remind them it is an honor to have been selected to serve as a Sergeant at any grade and accept the respect intended when addressed as Sergeant. There is an old story of Ike walking around a post one evening. A Sergeant needed a hand moving some stuff and asked "Joe" to lend a hand. The next day, the Sergeant saw Ike outside the HQ building and recognized him from the night before. The Sergeant began to apologize, but Ike reminded him that even as a five star general, he was still just a Soldier. Humble leaders receive more real respect from their Soldiers and never have to demand it. Master Sergeants are Sergeants and should be proud to be an enlisted leader in the Army.

Response by SGT Dave Adams made Dec 4 at 2022 4:38 PM

SGT Dave Adams — Sun, 04 Dec 2022 16:38:36 -0500

Never had one disagree with me addressing them as "Top".

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Dec 5 at 2022 6:55 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Mon, 05 Dec 2022 06:55:40 -0500

We just called them TOP.

Response by SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. made Dec 8 at 2022 3:27 PM

SPC Roger D. Pemberton Jr. — Thu, 08 Dec 2022 15:27:16 -0500

Staff Sargeant through Master Sargeant always got whittled down to Sargeant and very few that held those ranks cared in my experience. Those that didn't care cared more about their job in their rank and their troops than they did the rank itself. Those that cared about the rank and how they were addressed didn't care much about their job or their troops. It's the difference between being a micromanaging boss and a good leader. I always gave rank its due respect but those that cared more about their rank got little to none as a person.

Response by SPC William Szkromiuk made Dec 9 at 2022 12:42 AM

SPC William Szkromiuk — Fri, 09 Dec 2022 00:42:47 -0500

As a Spec 4, I always expected to be referred to as a Full Bird Private.

Response by MAJ Stephen Barnard made Dec 11 at 2022 7:24 AM

MAJ Stephen Barnard — Sun, 11 Dec 2022 07:24:05 -0500

I would suggest it's a matter of courtesy - and that the regulation should be updated. It has nothing to do with the self-confidence or otherwise of the MSG in question. And I doubt, with all due respect, that it is the place of a Sergeant to offer a correction to anyone - unless that Sergeant feels he/she is not being properly acknowledged...?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2022 12:40 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 00:40:51 -0500

My answer is simple those individuals who (presumably knowing better) INSIST on being addressed in a manner that is out of line with regulation. Are simply E8s. Like many Sgt. Maj are just E9s.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2022 12:59 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 00:59:18 -0500

In my experience, the subordinate soldiers (mainly squad leaders and platoon sergeants) were the "drivers" of insisting that full rank nomenclature be used. Only once did I have a MSG do that. My platoon leader happened to be with me, and he immediately intervened.

Response by 1SG Walter Williams made Jan 27 at 2023 9:33 AM

1SG Walter Williams — Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:33:00 -0500

There’s only two sergeants in the Army that need to have a title on there rank First Sergeant ,Sergeant Major all the rest are just Sergeants Come on let keep it real

Response by CW3 Charles Morris made Feb 11 at 2023 4:16 PM

CW3 Charles Morris — Sat, 11 Feb 2023 16:16:53 -0500

I'm old school, we didn't call the Master Sergeant. But, if you look at the Navy and Marine customs and courtesy, it'd be different.

Response by 1SG Tom Carter made Feb 19 at 2023 8:49 PM

1SG Tom Carter — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 20:49:51 -0500

It was very rare for me to ever use the full rank for any Sergeant. When I did, it was for the same reason a mother will use the first middle and last name for one of their children. There was an ass chewing to follow.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 20 at 2023 6:55 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 18:55:36 -0500

I can't recall an NCO I ever worked with in the military who wanted the name "master" attached to their rank except for two Master Gunnery Sergeants attached to my Brigade FECC (then doled out to the CAV Squadron) and a Master Chief who got attached to that same FECC during my first deployment. The ones who went to CAV and worked with me said "I'm Gunny useless I'm chewin' yer ass! THEN I'm MASTER GUNNY!" I'm still trying to figure out exactly why the Master Chief went to my FECC, but my other FECC NCOs straightened the f--- up while he was there! After he redeployed, my NCOs went back to their usual bullcrap.

Response by MSG Rod Rose made Feb 20 at 2023 7:40 PM

MSG Rod Rose — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 19:40:43 -0500

I only ask my girlfriends to call me Master. All other can just call me Sergeant.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Feb 27 at 2023 3:18 AM

1SG James Kelly — Mon, 27 Feb 2023 03:18:07 -0500

Because they earned it?
What if you were called sarge?

Response by SGT Dave Adams made May 27 at 2023 8:27 PM

SGT Dave Adams — Sat, 27 May 2023 20:27:13 -0400

Call Him/Her "Top" (as in "Top Kick"), and wait for a response. No harm, no foul. I know an owner of a bowling center here. He is a Master Gunnery Sergeant (USMC). I address him as "Top", or "Gunny". No issues there.