Why do so many people in the military have useless degrees?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:48:41 -0400

I have met many people I served with who have degrees in: interdisciplinary studies, weapons of mass destruction, counter terrorism, English, psychology from online degree mills.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Jul 24 at 2020 10:51 PM

SPC Nancy Greene — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:51:39 -0400

IMHO, the Military tend to just look at Batchelors Degree and don’t really care about the actual field of study

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2020 11:54 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:54:53 -0400

The military doesn't care what your degree is in, just that you have one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2020 11:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Jul 2020 23:59:49 -0400

I agree with you, which is why I recently stopped attending the main degree mill the military folks attend. I will say English isn't worthless. If said SM wants to be a teacher after service. But I get what you're saying.

I'd say, like most others who commented, it's a check the block for the army. As for your question of how does it help the army, well the military is so big in terms of personnel, it cannot imo look at degrees for certain usefulness critieria. In some cases. Also, hell some people get a degree in some fields simply out of interest.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 25 at 2020 12:02 AM

Maj John Bell — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 00:02:58 -0400

For the same reason so many civilians have useless degrees.

They go to college with no idea of what they want to do in life, and they've never had to bust their hump in a hardworking skilled trades job, or done factory work. Then someone tells them that a degree in Romance Languages, or Philosophy, or Art Appreciation is their ticket (for maybe 1% in those studies it is.)

Best thing my Dad ever did for his two boys. At age 14 we had to start paying room and board, buy our own cloths, school supplies, and entertainment. I never drove a car that belonged to Dad, and Dad did not pay my auto insurance.

Back then there weren't many jobs in Tucson for healthy juvenile boys during the summer, that weren't essentially "sweating your ass off in the red hot Arizona sun. By the time I was 18, I already had a skilled trades job, and growing side business of my own, with 3 part-time employees, that would have provided a respectable blue collar lifestyle for me, a wife and a couple of kids." Fortunately, I didn't have the wife or the kids yet. But I knew I wanted more than the red hot Arizona sun.

PS Dad invested the money, and gave it to us on our 18th birthday. Then, he gave us notice that we had one week to move out after HS graduation.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Jul 25 at 2020 12:43 AM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 00:43:29 -0400

What a lot of people do not understand about college is it is more than just the degree, it is what you go through to obtain it and the person you become. Some degrees admiringly are a joke but a good many developed the person in so many ways. My bachelorette made basic training seem a like a long summer camp and when you take multiple experiences and put them together, you achieve a product. I can remember studying my last semester until 0230 or 0300 certain days and at clinical by 0630. I missed the days of AIT where the DS went through the barracks and made sure you were in bed by 2130.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Jul 25 at 2020 12:48 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 00:48:51 -0400

Because education has become a big business and they want that sweet, sweet GI Bill money. So they target advertising toward military veterans, and it works.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 2:31 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 02:31:05 -0400

I don’t think an English degree is useless. Have you even seen how some of our senior enlisted leaders write. Young officers too. So what degrees do you see as not being useless? My daughter has an electrical engineering degree and is an artillery officer. My History degree got me a one way ticket to flight school. The army thrives in diversity. We don’t put all the square pegs in the square holes.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jul 25 at 2020 4:54 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 04:54:17 -0400

I have a completely uselss bachelor's degree. It is in "General Studies." But it was the quickest way to a BS. And my BS doesn't matter, it was a means to an end, that end being Grad School. I am now working on a Master's of Adult Education, which will NOT be useless.

And even the "useless BS" still means I can put down a degree on my resume.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 6:50 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:50:44 -0400

It’s simple. Military don’t give a shit about what the degree is. They just wanna do college classes for promotion points because that’s What the army wants them to do

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 25 at 2020 6:54 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:54:22 -0400

Worthless degree Vs. degree that one does not use! Pretty much the same. Bottom line is the soft skills that are attained. The ability to research, evaluate, assess, write, time management, creative thinking, networking etc.

I do not care to look for a study, I would venture to bet the vast majority of persons who hold degrees do not work in that field.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 7:48 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 07:48:25 -0400

The military doesnt care what degree people hold because it is all OJT. The military will train and certifiy you on whatever they want you to do. There are a lot of people in the civilian market that don't use their degrees either. Met one guy with an electrical engineer degree, he sold elevators. Didn't have anything to do with the engineering of said elevators, je obpy taled with customers and passed soecs to the conpany engineers.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 9:05 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:05:33 -0400

A college education, like anything in life, is what you make of it.
Whether it is a "degree mill" or sitting in a classroom at a 150 year old campus, you can walk away still writing at a 6th grade level, or you can develop the critical thinking and analytical skills that will make you better in any kind of job.
On average, only about 27% of college grads work in their field of study.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr587.pdf

That varies by field, of course, over 50% for elementary ed and accounting, close to 0% for "liberal arts", etc.
The private sector, much like the military, has jobs where a college degree (specific field or any field) is required, and jobs where the degree is not required but makes you more competitive.
And since 83% of those in the military today will not stay in for 20 years and will need a career, (and many that do collect retirement will need a second career) that "degree in anything" along with military experience usually results in a well-rounded individual with a higher chance of success in that next job.

sr587.pdf

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Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 9:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:25:47 -0400

Not just in the eyes of our Army but the eyes of our society as well, a degree puts you above your peers without one, regardless of what its in. In my opinion, this happens because a degree shows a dedication to something and the base skill level that comes with completing a college course. I have my first degree and I am working on my second at this very moment. I cannot explain the time management skills that I have sharpened and learned from doing this. I juggle being a recruiter full time, a family with two babies, a side business, friendships and my college all at once. Doing so and being successful teaches extreme time management. That is a trait that any leader at any level should have. Simply just one example, but IMO that is why. Its more than a degree, its a commitment to bettering yourself and being a soldier past the typical 9:00 to 5:00 mindset.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 9:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:36:30 -0400

Sgt,

No degree is useless. One thing I have learned is that even an online degree is valuable. Take it from a mere specialist who in the civilian world has two Masters; a MBA and a Masters in Cyber Security, and a DBA candidate in Business Intelligence. While I learned many concepts and theories, the most valuable lesson I learned was time management (Most of my degrees were online from ERAU). Time management was a fundamental skill I learned in online schooling, going through JCAC now (the hardest schooling I have been through) I learned how valuable online schooling was for me. JCAC is hard, but not because of the content. JCAC is challenging because of the amount of material covered in such a short period of time. My peers are one of the smartest kids I have met, but failed because of not properly managing their time. I strongly believe the Army; in this case, require some sort of time management course prerequisite prior to JCAC to minimize the drop out rate. My point here is that time management attained through college or some sort of training is valuable for success. A lot of the knowledge attained faded, but time management stuck. Reading the other comments, I agree with most. It does not matter what degree you have, but the discipline learned while attending. Just two cents from a humble Specialist, who joined to serve his country and contribute in any way possible. God speed.

SPC Santos

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jul 25 at 2020 9:56 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 09:56:01 -0400

Many classes leading to degrees are offered offered by creditable institutions both on base and on line. In my case, I was required to have a degree for promotion past Captain and attended on base classes offered by Southern Illinois University.
What is the value of the degree? It is another positive on your record as you compete for promotion and something civilian employers still look for as an indication of self discipline. In my experience, few liberal arts degrees directly apply to civilian or military positions

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 25 at 2020 10:00 AM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 10:00:17 -0400

For many people a degree was a ticket to a commission. That was my situation. I knew I wanted to be an AF officer so I took ROTC and a history and political science major. Stuff I liked and was good at. Later on the AF made it very clear that having a Master's Degree would help a captain make major. Choices from on-base university extensions were limited, so I took counseling and human resource management. It worked. I was promoted to major and selected for a regular commission. The two schools I went to for my MA artfully crafted their tuition to stay within the rate the GI bill paid. Degree mill? Not exactly. We did have to show up for most classes and write a few papers.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 12:06 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:06:13 -0400

Because a degree is CHECK THE BOX. Soldiers probably chase their interests OR choose the path of least resistance. Generally, an Officer career only requires "a degree" not a specific one (except lawyers, chaplains, and doctors). My professional credentials and graduate degrees are entirely useless in the military. I have a Masters in Finance and a CFA with 20 years in finance, but I'm not in the Finance Branch. I could have direct commissioned as a Finance CPT (there are regs for that), but that window wasn't open to me at the time I needed it. So the paths we choose in life don't usually line up perfectly to be the singular branch that leads directly to the first root in the tree of life.

It's why I tell my soldiers, anyone standing there in formation in their mid 20's currently only holding a high school diploma, that the path to FULL COL has not been closed to them yet. The deal breaker for ever getting the first step toward that path is a 4 year degree, and it generally doesn't matter what it is in or even where it came from.

If a soldier can do an active duty contract, and knock out as much on-line General Education course work as possible (essentially a year's worth). Then, when they get out the GI bill should carry them through the rest of a 4 year degree if they don't squander it.

When I was in Intel school the local community college hooks up soldiers in the 35 series MOS to get 20 SEMESTER units of "intelligence operations" college units. These units could be used for electives (and are nearly an ENTIRE YEAR'S worth of units), OR if the soldiers already had their general education knocked out they could transfer them to the school, and then get an Associates Degree in Intel Operations (which I did) for ONLY $50.

I was banging my head against a wall trying to get all the kids to BUY into this because if you don't have a degree, and in the future you are trying to get those last few units of electives it sure would be nice to have 20 semester units floating around to apply to anything for the sake of filler units.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jul 25 at 2020 12:49 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 12:49:55 -0400

I'll wet blanket this a bit to expand on some of the great points already stated. A degree is only valuable if you can actually do something with it that takes you further down the road you want to go. MBAs are a dime a dozen, but often used as a filtering tool up front so a human will actually look at the resume. English is good but any degree that focuses on writing skills is a major plus. Everyone should know the average MIL writing skill set is awful. Knowing how to write opens doors. There are snake oil degrees out there for sure. Even sound degrees have many graduates with buyer's remorse. In engineering, there are two degree paths; technology and professional. The engineering technology degrees are invalid for professional engineer registration later on. The typically smaller schools that offer that tend to be evasive when asked about it. The difference is both may be ABET credentialed, but only the Engineering Accreditation Committee (EAC) is valid for later registration where ETAC for technology isn't. I'd frequently get queries from applicants that were denied early for 800 series engineering positions and were than pointed to the 809 tech positions which are capped at a lower grade level.

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Jul 25 at 2020 1:07 PM

Cpl Mark A. Morris — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:07:32 -0400

This issue you have brought up is more about completing a task. It shows an individual can win. A four year degree can help in several areas.
Communication on a subject, or subjects has helped me in the past.
Armies may travel on their stomachs. But without proper communication, they are divided. Divided we fall.
Have a great day SGT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 4:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:01:39 -0400

I would submit to you that all bachelor degrees are a useless variety unless they are part of a licensing requirement, like Nursing, Accounting, or Engineering. The purpose of a degree is to show that you are capable of getting one. Most jobs that require a bachelor degree as a hiring prerequisite don’t require the studies to be in any specific area.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 4:34 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:34:30 -0400

Most if them just earn a degree to commission. The better question to ask is why is the military not utilizing their specialty degree to the maximum benefit of the formation? You can have somebody who has a specific degree and instead of using that person for that specialty they will assign them something completely different. "Oh you have a degree in chemical engineering? We are gonna put you in the AG corps." ~The military

It's ridiculous!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2020 6:29 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 18:29:30 -0400

English is not a useless degree. English majors read. A lot. And I’m doing so, they learn to critically analyze and communicate. Those are not useless skills in the military. On the contrary, they’re very important. COL Harris made some great points about writing in the military. Those skills are really applicable to any field.

As for WMD? Now that the counter-WMD belongs to SOF, I’ve gotten a chance to learn a lot more about this and it is waaaaay more complicated than I ever thought. Explaining that is beyond the scope of this forum, but I do think it’s absolutely critical to have experts that focus on this and only this, since it’s one of those fields that has a lot of players involved, but very little integration, cooperation and overall command and control up until recently. I don’t see this as a useless field either.

Response by CSM Arthur La Rue made Jul 25 at 2020 8:03 PM

CSM Arthur La Rue — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 20:03:37 -0400

You’ll need to define “ useless” for me. Normally, folds don’t pay for things they don’t need or want, so, I’ll need you to define “useless.”

Response by CPT Catherine R. made Jul 25 at 2020 8:26 PM

CPT Catherine R. — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 20:26:58 -0400

I got my degrees in the Military, Associate of Arts in general studies to knock out the Gen Ed. requirements, & a Bachelors of Science in Accounting. I did complete an MBA later on as a personal goal.

My degrees were a means to an end. They show that I can complete something and have a decent amount of education - they don't make me a better person or worker. My personal traits and critical thinking skills do that did. I don't consider an accounting degree a useless degree BUT I've never worked in accounting and really don't know much about it now - in that respect I would be useless in the accounting field. Instead, I work in IT, which I don't have a formal education in but know a lot more about.

I hire IT professionals, and other members of a project team. Many of my positions require a degree to be competitive - I honestly don't care what it is in, where it's from or what their GPA was. Once they're a professional their work experience is what matters to me. Some times an online degree is all that person can get - its hard to go to class on top of a full days work. If they still managed it then I have respect for them and their accomplishments.

If you believe these other degrees are useless then more power to you, but does it really matter to you what others chose to study? My son is in ROTC now, he knows he's going to go active duty when he graduates so he's doing a degree in what he enjoys as it's a means to an end. Yes, he'll have an Electrical Engineering degree but I doubt he'll ever actually work in the field. What he NEEDS is a bachelors so he can commission.

Response by SFC Marc W. made Jul 25 at 2020 10:35 PM

SFC Marc W. — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 22:35:51 -0400

I'm not sure what your personal vendetta against interdisciplinary studies is. I earned my IDS degree online while active duty infantry. I also blended it with political science and history. Now I have a completely different way of thinking about and approaching problems because of this "useless" degree. I also got mine from an accredited university, and no it wasn't easy.

I also had a 1sg who got his degree online while making his wife do his work. Maybe it's not the degree that's useless, just the person who holds it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 25 at 2020 11:36 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 25 Jul 2020 23:36:36 -0400

a useless degree is one that is not used- i.e.- basket weaving for athletes. Since as leaders \, all the degrees you listed are often used frequently.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jul 26 at 2020 4:36 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:36:13 -0400

It’s a common issue across the board. You can walk into any restaurant and find hoardes of folks with useless degrees they never had an interest in actually using. Bachelors in Psych or gender studies won’t go far.

So many folks get a degree in something they are interested in as a hobby instead of what they want to do as a career. One of the reasons we have hundreds of Bernie bro’s wanting free college and gov debt reimbursement because they can’t pay off their student loans because they didn’t use their college career as a stepping stone to a better career

Response by SGM Billy Herrington made Jul 26 at 2020 5:07 PM

SGM Billy Herrington — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 17:07:15 -0400

Because, Grantham, Columbia Southern, university of Phoenix, and their ilk give credit for almost anything so it’s a quick BA and promotion board help.

That about sum it up?

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jul 26 at 2020 5:30 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 17:30:24 -0400

No worse than kids graduating with degrees in
Gender Studies or Obscure Russian Art...

Response by A1C Jennifer Israel made Jul 26 at 2020 6:26 PM

A1C Jennifer Israel — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 18:26:54 -0400

I find that the degrees help no matter what your job is because it always helps to have a wider range of knowledge!! And we all know knowledge is power!!!!!!

Response by CPO Nate S. made Jul 26 at 2020 6:57 PM

CPO Nate S. — Sun, 26 Jul 2020 18:57:11 -0400

I am not sure there are "useless degrees". Degrees open doors. I have an Environmental Science degree with a Public Health focus. Do you think I am able, with my operational public health background and a degree, to get a job in public health? The answer has been - No!

But I have used that degree in the areas of Disaster Preparedness and Data Science. When combined with my military and post military experience my sciences-based degree has been an asset when applying it to aspects that impart a certain perspective for the task at hand.

Also, COL Private RallyPoint Member is correct. There are people, officer and enlisted alike, who cannot string two simple sentences together without creating confusion. Also, the military and not just the Army thrives of diversity, not just in obvious ways, but when different educations are brought together to create a better whole - then all can win; especially, when the senior enlisted or officer can use that education to effectively communicate a common operating picture of shared objectives.

I also tend to agree with 3e5x1-engineering that "...there may very well be some substance too what you are posting, but your approach is completely wrong...." Why?

Because there are those who appear to be well educated unable to use what they have learned more effectively? This addresses the point 3e5x1-engineering also made regarding the "...current CSAF...."

Keep in mind, when people go out of their way to heap praise on someone like the CSAF it is because such leaders have learned how to use their education to advance not only themselves but those men and women they have successfully commanded. Making them better! Lifting your own boat while being determined to sink others so only you will rise is never a good thing.

Also, Underhill makes a good point "...a degree shows a dedication to something and the base skill level that comes with completing a college course..." It is like the < 4% of all Scouts who ever make Eagle Scout, it shows the capacity to stick with something and to finish!!!

BTW, I have looked at some "interdisciplinary studies" programs. They allow the generalist to be flexible and make them an asset, because the person hiring them knows that they have a broad understanding of how things fit together. Such people might be good ab bringing diverse people together with a singular focus to solve a multi-modal issue. Like my dad, now gone who spoke 9 languages. it was nothing for him to speak to a Russian, a German and an Italian who could not speak to each other, but who with his skills come to agreement. Dad did not have a language degree, he had natural skills!

Finally, having a good education is not the same as having common sense. I have known very educated people who could function well in their office, but asked to think their way through something out of their element and to survive was challenging for them. Having a bad officer or senior enlisted is not so much the degree they have, rather it is the human being they are. Pure and simple!

In addition to data science, I am also tasked with doing research for my team. So, I have taken the liberty of doing some research for you. This is not the be all end all, but it is interesting:

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607712/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182150/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4896270/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6920635/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4310135/
- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6367254/

The above are not offered except to share insights regarding leadership. Providing these does NOT mean I agree or disagree with any premises made. It means, I am willing to consider what people have studied and give it a fair evaluation.

Also, if you get the chance please read the book - It's Your Ship. In the meantime, here is the short version: http://www.gary-tomlinson.com/media/Book_Report_-_Its_Your_Ship.pdf. My book copy is dog eared, underlined, highlighted and annotated. The book will make a good weekend read for you!

After you read the book and review the research (limited view) above please share your thoughts.

Leadership and Management Are One and the Same

Defining the attributes of change catalysts within high functioning organizations, including the academic enterprise, is desirable. An understanding of these attributes within our academy may foster faculty interest and engagement in seeking administrative ...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2020 8:27 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 08:27:17 -0400

The same reason so many people in general have useless degrees. IMHO, if the only use for your degree is to teach other people who are getting that degree, it's useless. Or if the only jobs you can get with your degree you can get without that degree, also useless.

Response by SP5 Matthew J. Palazola made Jul 27 at 2020 9:57 AM

SP5 Matthew J. Palazola — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:57:18 -0400

I remember back in boot camp in 1969, our platoon sgt. asked if "anyone had a college degree"? A few recruits stuck their hands up and were immediately sent to KP duty to scrub out garbage cans! I guess he didn't like educated people.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2020 10:03 AM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:03:48 -0400

Because they're all sorely misinformed about "education." That's why.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jul 27 at 2020 10:09 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:09:17 -0400

There are some useless degrees out there...I don't understand why a pilot has a degree in nuclear physics etc. I do understand the degrees in WMD, counter terrorism, military studies etc...they do come in handy. But you are right, the military most times want a degree to see if yo are disciplined enough to have critical thinking skills for education that leads to critical thinking skills on the battlefield.

Response by SPC Matt Ovaska made Jul 27 at 2020 10:33 AM

SPC Matt Ovaska — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:33:35 -0400

The Hells Angels were started by veterans with lots of experience; ie flame throwers, snipers, killing with a bayonet when they run out of bullets. They had trouble finding work. Vietnam vets were not hired.

About 5 or 6 Vietnam vets were at Palm Beach Jr, College in our 4th week. We were called to the office one day. A woman told us that the VA was not paying for our education any more. "Get off my campus" she said. So we left. At least she didn't call us baby killers or spit on us. I managed to raise 7 kids without an education. I was denied a citizenship certificate and told I could not register to vote. An army E-6 working at the courthouse in Franklin County , NY refused to give me the forms to apply for a tax break. He asked me where I served. I told him where. He said I didn't deserve a tax break and didn't give me the forms. I never told folks that I was in the Army so I wouldn't have to reveal my deployment. I was denied employment after 9-11 with the Feds because of my hearing loss. After 30 years, I applied for disability and got 10% Oh, a customs agent in Franklin County. asked to see my green card. 2 weeks later he called me and said to stop by his office. When I arrived he said to raise my right hand. "Do you swear to defend this country." I replied" I already did all that. He laughed and handed me my citizen ship certificate which is no longer acceptable for proof of citizenship by the Feds...Oh well.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 27 at 2020 10:53 AM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 10:53:10 -0400

Were those supposed to be examples of useless degrees? Every single one of those has some degree of relevance to many military careers. Online does not mean it's a degree mill.

Response by SGT Stephen Pyzikiewicz made Jul 27 at 2020 12:53 PM

SGT Stephen Pyzikiewicz — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 12:53:35 -0400

In all fairness, one should build their military life, so that they can drink from the fruits of their efforts after their military career. For one thing a college degree BEFORE entering the military opens doorways in the military just for those recruits. I remember a recruit with the rank of Specialist in my boot camp platoon.
A college degree is an important cornerstone of your academic development as a person and as professional. I believe the education completed for it is instrumental in forming ones identity. Since I retired, I have seen and still know for a fact that there are still-trending industries for one to find a successful second career in and that prefer or require prospective hires with college degrees - nursing, doctoring, practicing law, security - both domestic and overseas, business management, architect, and so on and so on. If you really want to strut your stuff in service and to prospective new employers after separation, a college degree says I made the sacrifice and effort to go higher than my peers with my learning and professional development. It shows more commitment on your part. It still distinguishes you from your peers even after you leave the service.

Response by CMSgt Randy Beck made Jul 27 at 2020 3:30 PM

CMSgt Randy Beck — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:30:13 -0400

Sgt Davisson, it has more to do with discipline than it does the degree. Did the person take the time to put in all the necessary classes and do all those papers to be able to obtain a degree? Being one of those who went to college before I joined the military, obtained a degree while in the military, and then used my GI Bill to obtain yet another BA after I retired and was working full time, it takes a lot of time and effort and dedication no matter how you obtain a degree. I have harped on this in the past, discipline is the missing art in today's military. I liked the comment below about a sub commander who had a degree in forestry, that was probably harder than the degree I got in communications and computer systems! Not only is that person probably and outstanding CO, but probably pretty darn interesting just to have a conversation with!

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Jul 27 at 2020 4:06 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 16:06:05 -0400

My goal was to be an army officer and serve for life. If the army would have required a certain degree, I would have earned it. The army didn't care what degree I earned, so I picked a field that I was interested in. I chose journalism. You might say I majored in military science and minored in journalism because the army was the only thing that was really important to me, journalism was just a way to get a bachelor's degree. I suspect that is true for many officers. The BA in whatever was just a way to get a degree, they really "majored" in ARMY.

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Jul 27 at 2020 5:07 PM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:07:14 -0400

The degrees individuals receive from Colleges, Universities, and Academies aren't useless, so much as they may not be used while in a specific field or MOS. The gaining of a degree also indicates that a individual has the ability to learn other skills.

Having a degree in the Arts or English Literature, may not seem useful for an Infantry Officer from one perspective. But that may be the very background needed for him or her to request specific support from a Civil Affairs Team in regards to documenting and protecting items or locations of historical significance.

Similarly a Soldier with a degree in Fire Protection or Journalism may not seem like a likely fit for a CIMIC Team. However, it enables them to fill roles the Senior Commander may not have the background for. The Journalist might be the PAO the commander needs to deal with reporters, while the Fire Protection Specialist can explain in simplified terms what a 530C's function is and how that type of vehicle can be of support in Civil Relief roles besides fire fighting. (A 530C is an obsolete firefighting vehicle based on the M35 2&1/2 ton chassis).

A degree in Culinary Arts, may seem like the last thing an Engineer Officer needs, however if during a Humanitarian Mission he or she needs to set up a multifunctional Industrial Kitchen on a field site due to destruction of infrastructure. The Culinary background may be the most pertinent aspect required to lay out the most efficient and sanitary set up.

The Square Peg only fits a square hole designed to accept it, formula pretty much only works with Napoleonic Warfare modes of thought. Where in our modern era we need people who can adapt to asymmetric operations, and sometimes that requires we have individuals who don't fit the mold in various positions.

Response by SGT Herbert Bollum made Jul 27 at 2020 6:03 PM

SGT Herbert Bollum — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 18:03:13 -0400

No degree is useless no matter the course of study, you learn many things along the way.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Jul 27 at 2020 6:46 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Mon, 27 Jul 2020 18:46:15 -0400

A lot of it in my experience has to do with getting as many promotion points as possible to max out at the promotion board. However, a degree IS NOT useless in my mind as it identifies you as having devoted yourself to getting smarter. Not to mention that most humans don't possess one. I guess getting the degree is the easy part. Applying it to something useful, worthwhile, or money-making is the hard part.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 28 at 2020 1:21 AM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 01:21:21 -0400

Because Big Army loves to see Degrees.....HEY THIS GUY HAS a degree in underwater basket weaving, he MUST be the best guy to make Sergeant First Class.....WHAT he has never been in a unit doing his MOS...OK but He has this bachelors degree in European Nose Picking....
"Big or tall, short or small, we will all have a ball on the Dog and Pony Show" (Sung to the tune of Tom and Jerry")

As for Officers, it is not the college degree that preps them for Service. It is the military training that they take, ROTC, Academy etc.
I have had officers that I would follow to hell and back and some that I would rather never see again.

IN ANY EVENT, it is not for us to weed this out, NOT YOUR JOB...BUT for EVERY SINGLE Officer that I had that was poorly trained or did not trust his NCOs there was an NCO that did not do His or Her Job or earn that Officer's trust.

If you as an NCO put a bad feeling about NCOs in the mind of an Officer then you are part of the problem not the solution.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2020 5:17 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 05:17:16 -0400

Lots of folks have brought up valid points regarding degree majors, and I can see how these disciplines can augment military careers and check blocks for specific job requirements. But your comment regarding "degree mills" is 100% accurate.

A good friend of mine is a hiring manager for a Fortune 500 company, and he will not even look at a resume if the individual has not attended a major state university or private institution. Jobs at his company are coveted and pay well. He told me that people with degrees from for-profit colleges go immediately to the trash without consideration.

This is honestly a problem in the military. For-profit universities work hand-in-hand with military infrastructure to sell these cheap, low-quality degrees to service members at or below the tuition assistance rate. They don't provide the brand recognition or stature that is afforded through other programs, and are often discounted by employers as degree mills.

Soldiers need to be educated that their options for online college are not limited to these shady universities. Many colleges are now offering the exact same degree from their flagship school 100% online. They also give military discounts and don't charge out-of-state tuition rates. I know firsthand because it was important to me when pursuing my BS and MS. Colorado State allowed me to earn a business degree that is exactly the same as the one earned at the home campus. My MS says "The University of Missouri at Columbia" despite never setting foot near the flagship campus.

Quality matters. More mainstream schools are offering nationally-recognized degree options without any special "online" asterisks attached. Those of us who are aware of such opportunities have the responsibility to make them known to others.

Examples:

University of Florida at Gainesville
https://ufonline.ufl.edu/degrees/undergraduate/

Oregon State University
https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/

Loyola University Chicago
https://www.luc.edu/online/index.shtml

undergraduate

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Jul 28 at 2020 12:39 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 12:39:56 -0400

There are millions of useless degress in the civilian world as well. The degrees you mentioned with the exception of English are important to the Army while while serving. Almost any degree will get you an entry position with the government, US and States. Jobs are competive and life is not fair.

Response by PO1 Eric Justice made Jul 28 at 2020 1:38 PM

PO1 Eric Justice — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 13:38:03 -0400

The easiest way to earn points for advancement is to have a degree. Now, I know in the Navy, at least while I was in, if you had a degree that matched your Rate (MOS) you were much better off. For example, as an IT1 if I had a degree in business, Computer Science, or Electronics Engineering (Network Engineering) you would advance faster. I also know as an IT, we had to start acquiring our civilian certifications. Which is the way it should be. However, I have met several Officers with degrees that make you wonder how they're in the position they're in. Like a Communications Officer that had a BS in Equine Sciences or a Combat Systems Officer that had a degree in Culinary Arts. As for the English Degree, COL Harris is right on the money. While not completely useless in the civilian world, being able to communicate is essential and a psychology degree helps you understand and handle people. I honestly believe that Senior leadership, E6 and up, should be required to take Psych courses to help interact with personnel and Child Psych to handle and control the 17-21 year old children under their command.

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 28 at 2020 3:12 PM

SMSgt Bob Wilson — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 15:12:14 -0400

Two things. [1] The degree does not guarantee you a job. For the most part, the military does. [Bottom Line: Survival.] [2] With "SOME on-line degrees" and $5.50 you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. [A worthless piece of costly paper. Also with some degrees, you can't get a job unless you get a Masters or PhD in the field of study.] The O-6 summed it up best: My History degree got me a one way ticket to flight school. [I bet the O-6 went to a real university.]

Response by MAJ Vic Artiga made Jul 28 at 2020 7:28 PM

MAJ Vic Artiga — Tue, 28 Jul 2020 19:28:45 -0400

Why would you say a counterterrorism degree is useless? I put my degree to very good use as a counterintelligence officer. Now that I'm retired, I'm putting it to even better use as a consultant.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2020 3:22 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 15:22:15 -0400

No degree is truly useless but I would agree that some are less useful than others. Before I became a Warrant Officer I was in college ROTC and some of the cadets preferred easier degrees so that they could get better grades and focus on excelling at ROTC to increase their chances of getting their branch of choice. Seems like a reasonable choice in retrospect.

Response by 1stSgt John Harrison made Aug 9 at 2020 6:27 PM

1stSgt John Harrison — Sun, 09 Aug 2020 18:27:31 -0400

For many it is easy promotion points, I wish I had had some when I was in, never made e6 in the Army,made it in the air national guard

Response by SGT Dennis Chen made Aug 10 at 2020 12:23 PM

SGT Dennis Chen — Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:23:20 -0400

Is the degree really useless? If it accomplished their purpose for completing the degree, then it was not useless or worthless to them. I remember when I got my bachelors degree there were many companies that wanted candidates with a bachelors degree, the major was not important. My first job out of university (>20 years ago) was as an insurance adjuster and they just wanted a bachelors degree. Now most of the insurance companies want a business degree. I know people that have moved up in their company to a business analyst position without a degree at all, but many companies now want candidates with a business or analytical major. There are many executives in big corporations that completed their bachelors in English, philosophy, history, economics, etc. So are those useless degrees? I don't think so. It provided the first step.

Edit: after re-reading the question I see that the question was limited to online degree mills. I have nothing positive to say about degrees from those places.

Response by SSG Paul Carrier made Aug 13 at 2020 11:48 AM

SSG Paul Carrier — Thu, 13 Aug 2020 11:48:58 -0400

I once worked with a First Lieutenant who had an Anthropology degree...

I asked him if he was there to study us...

Response by PO2 Lon Hebert made Aug 16 at 2020 2:34 PM

PO2 Lon Hebert — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 14:34:16 -0400

when you get a degree it should be in something that can be used to get a good paying job

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Aug 16 at 2020 2:51 PM

SGT Justin Anderson — Sun, 16 Aug 2020 14:51:48 -0400

I think the more important question is, why do so many civilians have useless degrees? For a lot of people they're the person to go to college in their entire family, so they don't get a lot of guidance. Secondly for some it's just a matter of getting a higher wage or consideration for a job. A lot of businesses don't care what you studied, just the fact you have that fancy piece of paper. Useless is a rather opinionated term.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made Aug 17 at 2020 5:36 PM

LCDR Mike Morrissey — Mon, 17 Aug 2020 17:36:21 -0400

Wow...the vituperative discourse is appalling to witness as the troglodytic murmurs emanate from the caverns. There are a few attributes imputed to a college degree. The first is that one actually made it to graduation. A feat unto itself. Secondly, a degree in any discipline does not mean that is the only subject one studies. A humanities degree requires science, math, foreign language, and demonstration of critical thought. Thirdly, very few actually spend a career in their degree’s field.

True, a degree is not the be all and end all, and it should never be used as a bludgeon. My brother and I took vastly different routes. I went NROTC and a Navy career. He developed a marine engine and transmission expertise envied by many. His skills with his hands with not only steel moving parts but also fine woods are worlds apart from my skills. But, neither of us wanted the other’s job.

Then again, I had the damndest experience with an Ensign from Villanova with his engineering degree. He could not conn a ship to save his soul...spatial and situational awareness were nowhere to be found. I had a W-4 Bos’n (God in Navy parlance) who had mastered just about any subject concerning ship operations. While he could utter the most degrading curses known in two languages, he would have pinned back the ears of some here for their lack of courtesy and manners.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2020 1:24 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Aug 2020 01:24:45 -0400

In my opinion if it is a degree that was obtained during active duty than it doesn't matter. It took about 3 years and blood sweat and tears to get my associates degree. Half of my classes completed while in Afghanistan. So there were some days I simply didn't sleep.

Response by PO1 Sharon Powell made Sep 4 at 2020 7:40 PM

PO1 Sharon Powell — Fri, 04 Sep 2020 19:40:02 -0400

I spent 20 years in the Navy. I was a JO, and earned enough credits to complete two years of a four-year degree. I earned to bachelor's degree, including an undergrad degree in psych. I came home attended NCCU in Durham, NC and earned a MA in psych. I worked with children with special needs, counseled homeless men with addictions in a county run facility and when the job became too dangerous I returned to journalism took a job at a local paper. Now I'm retired again. Earning degrees while I was in the navy helped me grow up. Please don't judge anyone who is trying to improve his or her life.
Journalist Sharon D. Powell, USN(Ret.)

Response by CPT Thomas Monahan made Sep 6 at 2020 8:18 PM

CPT Thomas Monahan — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 20:18:19 -0400

Keep in mind what maybe useless to you is a sincere interest to someone else. I majored in Parks and Recreation Management with and administration emphasis. What Uncle Sam wanted done in Army Logistics is very similar to what Mickey Mouse wants at Disney properties.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Sep 6 at 2020 10:01 PM

SSG James Stodola — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 22:01:08 -0400

Interesting question. What I find more interesting is that you put a degree in counter-terrorism and psychology in this mix. You are aware that we are fighting a war on "terrorism" do you not? Along with that having a basic knowledge of human psychology would be a tremendous plus. Weapons of mass destruction, hmmm, do you not think that they are bargaining chip in on the world stage now, and that having a reasonable level of knowledge about them might just come in handy? I am beginning to think that your basic question is useless in light of the state of the world right now, and what knowledge in many aspects of life may be beneficial in dealing with these situations. You as a civil affairs specialist should know above all that dealing with the individuals you deal with, that a good knowledge of psychology would come in quite handy, and before you think I don't know what I am talking about, I was for a period of time in my career a 37F Psychological Operations Specialist, who as you should know tend to work in concert with Civil Affairs Specialists. But I don't know you so you may just be looking for an answer to a much simpler question. So, I guess what I can offer is that the more knowledge of your enemies, how they think, how they work, their cultures, their way of life, that you have, the better off you are not only as a soldier but as anyone who works in that environment.

Response by PO1 Mike Wallace made Sep 16 at 2020 10:16 AM

PO1 Mike Wallace — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:16:40 -0400

The military has over the last couple of decades placed more emphasis on management which most people equate to education. 'Useless degrees' usually don't demand lots of math or science studies but gets that checkmark by your name.
The military needs to get back to emphasizing leadership and job skills.

Response by 1LT Nina Barnhart made Sep 24 at 2020 10:06 PM

1LT Nina Barnhart — Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:06:07 -0400

Pending your job, I have found that the process of getting a degree is more important than the actual degree. It takes discipline to work through the hard classes and if you are also working full time (what I was doing with my MBA) you have to figure out how to balance life with school. Nobody is making you do it but you are still willing to put in the effort. It's not to say that you can't have that same discipline or be educated without getting a degree, but having the degree shows the world that you have the discipline to see it through. It's like running a marathon by choice. Nobody is making you do it, but you put in the time and effort when you didn't feel like it, but instead of a medal in your bedroom that only a few people know about, you have a piece of paper that you can show employers. That might be a terrible example, but I do a lot of long distance running and that's the first comparison that comes to my depraved mind. Similar mindset. I could talk about all of the other benefits of education, but if you care about being educated you really don't need a degree. You just need an open mind and the desire to learn.

Response by Jerry Rivas made Oct 5 at 2020 8:04 PM

Jerry Rivas — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 20:04:35 -0400

To get promotion points.

Response by Lt Col Walter Green made Oct 8 at 2020 3:34 PM

Lt Col Walter Green — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 15:34:42 -0400

I think you have to be very careful about two things. First, calling educational programs degree mills. Before you do that you should understand that an accredited college or university, whether accredited by a regional accreditor or a recognized specialist accreditor is not a degree mill if it offers courses or degrees online. Online instruction is commonly used these days in educational programs from Associates to Doctoral degrees by a wide variety of schools from Research 1s to community colleges. Good online is every bit as good and may be better than in-person bricks and mortar education. Second, interdisciplinary studies, English, and psychology are all degrees with direct utility in the armed forces, in government, and in the private sector. A well constructed interdisciplinary studies degree gives the student a broader understanding of the world around him or her. English - try working on a major command staff if you can't write clearly and concisely to convey the message your four star needs to hear - someone will have to rewrite or trash can (more likely) your gibberish. As for psychology, especially abnormal psychology, many times when one of my troops did something that made no sense, I would have been very glad to be able to understand how his or her brain worked. Mass destruction, terrorism - if you want to progress in a fire department, a law enforcement agency, emergency management or homeland security agency, credentials in these fields will get you in the door and get you promoted.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2020 8:07 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Oct 2020 20:07:48 -0400

My degree is in Chemical Engineering. I've never used it, so its pretty useless to me. The point is that the breadth of degrees offers a similar breadth of understanding, knowledge, and experience. We want to leverage every SMs unique skills and backgrounds to make our Team stronger

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 10 at 2020 5:53 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 10 Oct 2020 17:53:43 -0400

The military rewards degrees fairly heavily. Since the degree is what matters rather than the content, going after either content of interest to the subject or the easiest will often be the result. With the exception of medical, engineering, or IT degrees, the degree you get will most likely not have a direct application to your job. Certain gen. ed. degrees, like English for instance, are always applicable as they improve the professionalism and conciseness of a soldiers writing. If anything, I'd say an English degree would be one of the most useful for the average soldier looking to make a career out of the military.

Response by LTC David Howard made Oct 21 at 2020 9:13 AM

LTC David Howard — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 09:13:20 -0400

I think this is what happens when an organization, the military or any other, sets a requirement for an educational degree rather than for the actual skills needed to be effective on the job. Individuals who believe, correctly or not, that to advance within the military they need a college degree will pursue a degree and maybe choose to do so in a field where getting that degree is the easiest. Working full time, in the military or elsewhere, and trying to earn a degree is a serious challenge, and I can assure you that seeking a degree in something like any of the engineering disciplines is a lot tougher to accomplish that getting a useless degree in "gender studies" or any of the various ethnic or racial studies programs that are now passing for legitimate education.

Response by COL Don Hall made Oct 21 at 2020 11:07 PM

COL Don Hall — Wed, 21 Oct 2020 23:07:58 -0400

You're actually asking two questions here--the issue isn't the major--majors don't really matter. I majored in Nuclear Engineering and spent 30 years in the Medical Service Corps.

The issue is with diploma mills, as you call them. Now, that said, I went to American Military University for a Masters in American History and found it to be academically rigorous (I have a PhD from U of MD, a Bachelors from Michigan, and Masters from Iowa State, South Dakota Mines, and the Army War College). So not all schools out there are diploma mills, either. But you have to shop around.

And I agree with Victor Harris--the more we can get people to write, the better. Not all schools do that (the War College included).

Now, are some majors better than others? Perhaps. But a hundred years ago, when Freud and his cohorts were inventing psychology, people thought that was a made up degree as well. Now we can't hire enough of them (at the Masters level, at least) for our hospitals and clinics. Is Homeland Security and WMD a fad? Perhaps we'll find out in another ten years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 7:51 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 19:51:56 -0500

The problem is integrating classes with your work in the military. If you can do that another problem is are the classes offered at a time you can attend. Its not like I could have worked on a Physics Degree or Chemistry Degree while on active duty. So you end up taking what's available.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2023 1:25 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 01:25:37 -0500

They have degrees like that because most get online degrees and the options are limited. Unfortunately that useless degree will probably be better for them in the civilian world because civilians can’t wrap their head around our experience equating to civilian jobs.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Feb 19 at 2023 9:50 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 09:50:16 -0500

Not so much as useless degrees as focused. Why does an Infantry Officer need an electrical engineering degree - counter-terrorism would likely be more useful. Using their psychology degree to better understand people would probably have benefits.
I took two years of Fire/Rescue/EMS/Disaster-Management technical courses both inhouse, online, diagnostic-tested, benchmark tested and finally got my degree after 5 years.
They all helped me organize myself and plan for future operations better in my active military days. It was a wider view of what I did on a day to day basis.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Feb 19 at 2023 12:18 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 12:18:52 -0500

EXCELLENT Question...I'm An 8th GRADE DROP OUT ~ Self Educated ~ Retired At 56...
GET THIS:
"
Only 27 percent of college grads have a job related to their field...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/20/...
There are two different things going on in this chart. First, a significant number of college grads appear to be underemployed: In 2010, only 62 percent of U.S. college graduates had a job...

I Have 2 Friends, Both MSU Graduates, Married To Each Other,
Whom NEVER Had Jobs In Their Fields Of Degrees ...
HE Retired As A Head Custodian From MSU.
And SHE Retired From A WAL-MART Store ~ Never Even Made Dept Manager,
2 Degrees NOT Worth Having, And 1,000's Of Dollars Pizzed Away ~
And It Took 4 + Years Of Studying, For Employment Which ANYONE Could Have Done...
~NO Thanks, I'll Pass On These. ~

...

Response by LCpl Sidney Green made Feb 19 at 2023 7:47 PM

LCpl Sidney Green — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:47:27 -0500

Although many degrees may not seem as functionally relevant as others, no degree is useless. If nothing else, one of the most critical parts of attaining a college education is to show the desire, willingness and capacity to complete it.

Response by SPC Robert Coventry made Feb 19 at 2023 9:09 PM

SPC Robert Coventry — Sun, 19 Feb 2023 21:09:58 -0500

It's to show they caan complete something

Response by PO3 Justin Bowen made Feb 20 at 2023 3:35 AM

PO3 Justin Bowen — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 03:35:51 -0500

People in the early 2000s flocked to Middle Eastern studies in response to 9/11. People who wanted to go into Soviet studies were ridiculed because Russia was at the time thought to be an inconsequential country due to its economic troubles and thus their degree choices being the equivalent of going into basket weaving.

The people who got degrees in Soviet studies are laughing all the way to the bank.

Response by SGM Omer Dalton made Feb 20 at 2023 1:32 PM

SGM Omer Dalton — Mon, 20 Feb 2023 13:32:00 -0500

All certified degrees are considered useful in the Army. I worked for a combat arms LTC who had a degree in music. Don't know about other services. What degrees are useful in the military are totally worthless in the civilian world. I know some folks who went the easy route and received worthless degrees and can't find a decent job in the civilian sector. I am Army retired., enlisted. I achieved my degrees (BS-Business, MA-Human Resources) late in my Army career so I was too old for the officer route; however upon retirement these degrees helped me achieve salary and second retirement goals. I taught adult education at a credited university that went to online courses. I took a few online courses but as a whole not in favor of it. The interaction between students and professors is just not the same. I later declined to teach online. Are online degrees just as good as in-house degrees: Well I don't know.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Mar 12 at 2023 7:55 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:55:45 -0400

Those "Useless" Degrees could enable a person to join the FBI, become a Game Warden. If the person holding the degree is enlisted, that will help that person advance IN THE RANKS A LOT FASTER THAN YOU WILL. Or better yet, the person with the degree can become an officer.

Response by SGT David Wyatt made Apr 2 at 2023 6:35 PM

SGT David Wyatt — Sun, 02 Apr 2023 18:35:56 -0400

So in MI we had counter terrorism specialists, entire groups tracking WMD’s and PsyOps. We also had interrogators who wrote reports in English that were read in English by analysts who used information from multiple collection disciplines. Those analysts used the information they had obtained to produce reports in English which MaCom commanders used to make decisions and draw plans. Please note that all of your examples of useless degrees would have been/were necessary for thi MI mission. You know during WWII the army even used troops with art degrees to recover looted treasures.

Response by CPL Theodore Moore made Apr 16 at 2023 3:17 PM

CPL Theodore Moore — Sun, 16 Apr 2023 15:17:44 -0400

I took a break from teaching English to do 4 years as a soldier. I can't say my degree made me a less capable soldier. A lot of people (especially enlisted) join the military to figure out what to do, and the military offers all kinds of educational benefits, and pays off student loans. If my parents hadn't run into serious health difficulties, I might have stayed in and gone up the ranks, but I just took my honorable and went home. Does that answer your question some?

Response by PO3 Douglas Hughes made Apr 27 at 2023 12:49 PM

PO3 Douglas Hughes — Thu, 27 Apr 2023 12:49:55 -0400

This was a shock to me as a naval enlisted person but it help me understand why so many OCS'ers were as bad as they were.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made May 26 at 2023 12:33 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 26 May 2023 00:33:52 -0400

I don't have much use for a online degrees and my own college education was in the classroom where I feel You get a lot more out of the actual course of study. There are however quite a variety of courses that are very useful including English, History both of which I found not only a need for but use. My major was in Criminal Justice and I spent over 50 years in Law Enforcement and Law Enforcement relates occupations. Having said that however I have taken some courses online and did get basic information but I think You can gain a lot more within an actual classroom.

Response by SMSgt Keith Klug made May 26 at 2023 7:27 AM

SMSgt Keith Klug — Fri, 26 May 2023 07:27:29 -0400

I don't think any degree is useless. It shows commitment. I know some folks got theirs to get promoted. In the Air Force, it wasn't and still isn't about being a great Airman. It is about getting that degree and being well rounded, even if you couldn't do your job.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 27 at 2023 8:59 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sat, 27 May 2023 08:59:34 -0400

Perhaps This Will Help Explain The Reality Of Obtaining A College Degree.
.
Is College Worth It? Most Graduates Work in Other Fields ...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-18/is...
Here’s a statistic that may give some pause: More than half of college graduates over the age of 25 don’t work in their field of study, according to a new survey from Intelligent.com
~~~~
Key facts about U.S. college graduates | Pew Research Center
http://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/12/10...
Recent college graduates are more likely than graduates overall to be underemployed – that is, working in jobs that typically do not require a college degree, according to an analysis of Census Bureau and B.L.S. data by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. As of December 2021,
41% of college graduates ages 22 to 27 were underemployed, compared to non-degrees...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A You Can Tell, Their Degrees Aren't Being Used, Probably Due To ALSO Being Inadequately Educated..
Perhaps One Has A Degree In Automotive Engineering, But Can Only Do Tune-Ups.....
Would You Hire Him In Your Automotive Design Department?~ EXACTLY~ Unemployable!
Our High School Graduates Have The Identical Situation ~~ They HAVE Diplomas, But Have NO Qualifications For ANY Field Of Employment....ZERO, Even Micky-D's Has To Teach Them To Say:
"WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH YOUR ORDER, SIR"?

is...

Response by SPC Joel Quey made May 27 at 2023 4:43 PM

SPC Joel Quey — Sat, 27 May 2023 16:43:33 -0400

Obviously, degree mills are bad, but the fields of study you listed are far from useless.

In fact, interdisciplinary studies and psychology are two of the most important degree types, and it should be mandatory for everyone to have some familiarity with them.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 27 at 2023 5:47 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 27 May 2023 17:47:33 -0400

So, what are useful degree for SMs?

Response by SSG Paul Carrier made May 27 at 2023 7:45 PM

SSG Paul Carrier — Sat, 27 May 2023 19:45:29 -0400

We had a 1LT working FLIPL investigations.. I asked his degree.. he had a BS in Anthropology..
I accused him of using us as a study group..

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 28 at 2023 7:12 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sun, 28 May 2023 07:12:41 -0400

Like So Many Other Situation..Where A College Degree IS Required .
A Degree, ANY Degree, Even The Worthless Ones Will Do.
And When They Slap That Brass On Their Uniforms & Are The One's In Charge,
THAT'S When It SHOWS..........Educated Idiots, In Leadership Positions,
Even When They Don't Actually KNOW SH*T.!!
.
CONFESSION: ~ I Dropped Out Upon Completion Of The 8th GRADE ~
But Take A Look At My Bio.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made May 28 at 2023 7:16 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Sun, 28 May 2023 07:16:25 -0400

In Other Words B.S. Degrees?
There's A Lot Of THAT Going Around....
They're About As Valuable As A Full Case Of V.D.

Response by MAJ John Eckholm made Jun 15 at 2023 2:30 PM

MAJ John Eckholm — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:30:09 -0400

It just reflects how non military get also get useless degrees. Colleges/universities are a business and do not care if the degree will be useless as look as they make their money.

Response by SGT Erick Holmes made Jun 15 at 2023 4:32 PM

SGT Erick Holmes — Thu, 15 Jun 2023 16:32:23 -0400

I don't know if people have useless degrees. Either way having a degree of any sort is a blessing. However, some degrees may not fit the lives of others. For some of us seeing the acomplishment of fellow Airmen, Soldiers, or Sailors get a degree is a proud moment for some and a sad moment for other that don't have one. So overall I believe that people don't have useless degrees just degrees that everyone doesn't agree too

Response by SFC Barbara Layman made Jun 16 at 2023 8:42 AM

SFC Barbara Layman — Fri, 16 Jun 2023 08:42:46 -0400

I am first responding by inquiring about YOUR degree.
Your query seems presumptuous and pompous for one whom I PRESUME to be a relatively newly minted NCO.

What appears 'useless' to one can be of considerable value to the 'owner.' You have absolutely no idea, unless you've conducted an in-depth interview, what the ultimate goal of the person holding what you reference as a 'useless' degree might have been.

Suggest you take the time to a) become acquainted with the person holding the 'questionable' degree, b) do your own research into the field of study - curriculum or c) MYOB and deal with the hand of cards you have been dealt, keeping you uneducated judgements to yourself.

Response by SSG Jay X. made Jun 17 at 2023 3:40 PM

SSG Jay X. — Sat, 17 Jun 2023 15:40:36 -0400

That's good!

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Jun 17 at 2023 10:32 PM

PO3 James Bobiney — Sat, 17 Jun 2023 22:32:29 -0400

Are you sure you're not confusing "useless" with MOS appropriate? Seems that promotions are easier when soldiers have degrees. So we all get degrees and not necessarily ones that match our MOS. Back when my Grampa was in during WW2 alot of them didn't have degrees. Grampa didn't and went to flight school, then bomber school and flew B17 missions over France. Sorry, got off on a different path. Anyway, just asking. This post is three years old so idk if you'll even see it. Take care. Hooah.

Response by CPT Bob Mason made Jun 18 at 2023 10:47 AM

CPT Bob Mason — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 10:47:03 -0400

I have a degree in Secondary Education. One day my company (HHC, 4/63 armor) was in an auditorium for a class in riot control. The assigned instructor and assistant instructor were droning on-and-on, frequently stopping to refer to notes, and had already lost the attention and interest of the audience when the First Sergeant asked me to take over. I did so with no notes or preparation, completing the hour instruction and fielding many thoughtful questions.

Response by MSgt Mason Manner made Jun 18 at 2023 2:30 PM

MSgt Mason Manner — Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:30:10 -0400

I was in the Regular Air Force for 8 years and a IMA for 25years. The writer of the original question is correct. It's not individuals coming into the DoD but more career NCO'S that take advantage of tuition assistance programs. Over 33years I became aware of more and more individuals who have college degrees that will NEVER GET A INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYMENT but it looks good on a EPR. I still remember being on my AT I shared to a group of mixed enlisted members about the need and opportunities of the SKILLED TRADES and HELMETS TO HARDHATS and how well I'd done. The female E-9 (she was a E-9 not a Chief)couldn't understand that being a plumber, electrician,carpenter would do more for you than a degree in sociology or liberal arts. The proof of the pudding is the amount of individuals with not just under graduate degrees entering the enlisted force but here in New York City the amount of college graduates applying to apply to become SANITATION WORKERS (GARBAGE/SNOW REMOVAL/BROOM TRUCK OPERATORS).COLLEGE DEGREES ARE NOW A MARKETED COMMODITY BEING SOLD TO MILITARY MEMBERS BECAUSE THESE CORPORATIONS DON'T CARE IF THE INDIVIDUAL GETS EDUCATED THEY JUST WANT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EDUCATION DOLLARS

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Jun 19 at 2023 12:55 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 00:55:20 -0400

This actually brings to mind a side issue. Why is there such a focus on college degrees? Especially in light of the severe shortage in the skilled trades. Try to find an electrician, plumber, carpenter etc. Good luck, but if you do, I guarantee you're going to be paying upwards of $100 and hour or more. As a board member for the regional ambulance service here, I can tell you that EMTs and Paramedics are also in very short supply. We'll have to raise our pay scale three times in the past year or so to try and keep our shifts filled. Other allied medical fields (CMA, LPN, Dental, Radiology and Lab Techs, etc.), are also in very short supply. These are just a few of the vocations that are in short supply and require an associate degree or less, but do require specialized skills.

Response by MSgt Bobby Gene made Jun 19 at 2023 8:40 AM

MSgt Bobby Gene — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 08:40:18 -0400

I have found in my experience that the only time degree matters, or is not "useless" is if you DON'T have one. Pretty cut and dried, that.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2023 11:40 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 11:40:31 -0400

While some degrees are more practical than others, I believe that all degrees are useful. All degrees require that one completes the General Education requirements. Students must meet deadlines, be on time for classes, interact with different types of people, and overcome difficulties on a regular basis. Acquiring the ability to meet these challenges on a regular basis is very good experience as one moves forward and encounters life’s myriad obstacles. Granted, a degree in basket weaving will not be as useful as a degree in cybersecurity but the student will certainly have the ability to learn.

Response by PO2 Mike Vignapiano made Jun 20 at 2023 3:10 PM

PO2 Mike Vignapiano — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:10:55 -0400

I don't think any degree is useless. The only way a degree becomes useless is if achieve getting a degree and then do nothing with it, or get a job where it isn't useful. Example: a degree in archeology and then you get a job as a computer tech.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Jun 20 at 2023 6:36 PM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 18:36:47 -0400

We Already Have Our Quota Of Idiots With College Degrees;
And The On-Line Programs Will Keep Producing Many More.
I'm A Self-Educated Individual & I've Had College Boys Working For Me.
HAD 4.. FIRED 1 For INCOMPETENCE ~~ Retrained The Other 3
And We ALL Became Friends And Had Fun Working Together ~~
THAT BTW; Is How It's Supposed To Be....
If You Enjoy Your Career, You'll NEVER Go To "Work" Again...

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jun 20 at 2023 7:31 PM

SSG Roger Ayscue — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 19:31:02 -0400

Why are there so many useless degrees out there? I mean degrees that prep you only to be able to teach that subject to other people that likewise will not be able to use it...
As to your question, as it applies to the Military, this would be easily fixed if the military required all Officers to serve a minimum of two years as enlisted soldiers before granting a commission to a 22-year-old with a degree in advanced basket weaving. The Academies should go to 5 years with one year mandatory enlisted service between sophomore and junior years.

Response by SSG Adrian Walker made Jun 21 at 2023 11:39 PM

SSG Adrian Walker — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 23:39:00 -0400

What's wrong with my degree in advance drinking??

Response by LCpl Toyo Powe made Jun 29 at 2023 12:16 AM

LCpl Toyo Powe — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 00:16:28 -0400

Sometimes they push degrees while I'm high demand and by the time you graduate it's more than there are jobs. You can never go wrong with computers and software.

Response by PV2 Dina Weiher made Jun 29 at 2023 11:34 AM

PV2 Dina Weiher — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 11:34:55 -0400

You think they are useless because those things don't interest you. "Online degree mills," is such a negative term. Maybe 10 years ago they were a joke but now even Harvard and Stanford offer online degrees. Earning your degree online is no different than taking a virtual class from a University you physically attend. I earned 2 bachelor's degrees in person, but then decided to earn my Master's online. It was MUCH harder online, they really hold you accountable and there is so much reading to do. Don't knock something just because you don't like it.

Response by SGT Tim Tobin made Jun 29 at 2023 12:19 PM

SGT Tim Tobin — Thu, 29 Jun 2023 12:19:36 -0400

Online college mills are the biggest scam of the 21st century. My "degree" is my dd214 and I have never not been able to get gainful employment. If hour ego is so weak you have to have alphabet soup after your name then good on you!!

Response by CPL Matthew Neske made Jul 13 at 2023 7:57 PM

CPL Matthew Neske — Thu, 13 Jul 2023 19:57:59 -0400

Why are so many people that were never in the military have useless degrees, but still paying for them 20 years after they graduated???

Response by CPT Bill Coleman made Jul 14 at 2023 5:37 PM

CPT Bill Coleman — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 17:37:29 -0400

My bachelors degree was in accounting and economics. I was a Signal Officer and after active duty in civilian life, I worked in human resources and after retirement as a cabinet maker and finish carpenter. Did the degree in that field help? Yes! It allowed me to enlist fn 1966 or the Army's "College Option Program". After active that and my military experience opened the door to entry into a higher level position in my civilian career. That particular major also gave me an edge over those who didn't understand the numbers in planning and budgeting.

Response by CPO Patrick Lovette made Jul 14 at 2023 6:44 PM

CPO Patrick Lovette — Fri, 14 Jul 2023 18:44:50 -0400

I completed my Batchelor of Public Administration (Criminal Justice) and My Master of Science (Forensic Science) while I was on active duty E7, in an E9 billet, running a training division in San Diego. Those degrees were directly transferrable to my post-retirement career in Law Enforcement/corporate security.
I'm blessed in retirement to teach Use of Force/Tactical Firearms to Armed Security Personnel and Concealed carry permit holders.

Response by PFC Edward Krinsky made Jul 15 at 2023 12:49 PM

PFC Edward Krinsky — Sat, 15 Jul 2023 12:49:01 -0400

There are several issues regarding degrees. First, it should be from an accredited institution. Secondly, the degree should have social redeeming value. For example, a degree in Underwater basket weaving” benefits no one. The individual seeking a degree should determine if the degree sought would better their life, or society.

Response by SSG Michael McCalla made Jul 16 at 2023 1:26 PM

SSG Michael McCalla — Sun, 16 Jul 2023 13:26:10 -0400

Why is a degree considered useless? Never understood that idea. The degree may not be your choice but that's your choice.

Response by CPT Kurk Harris made Jul 17 at 2023 2:45 PM

CPT Kurk Harris — Mon, 17 Jul 2023 14:45:32 -0400

Because they get degrees from diploma mills that create curricula that match with military training. This allows low quality colleges to market low value degrees to service members who 1) want a degree solely for promotion purposes or 2) are under the misconception that all you need to be successful is a diploma for anything from anywhere. Unfortunately many of these service members come out of college with a degree, but can’t write effectively, or critically think.

Response by SPC Jacob Viano made Jul 17 at 2023 7:59 PM

SPC Jacob Viano — Mon, 17 Jul 2023 19:59:32 -0400

Three theories:

A) They're preferred by alphabet soup agencies and the feds for civy jobs

B) The tuition is free and folks don't care that much as they're not paying for them. Think "gimmes"

C) Lack of quality advising and use of logic when it comes to performing a cost benefit analysis on what degree will help you most and rate of return on said degree.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 17 at 2023 8:25 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 17 Jul 2023 20:25:31 -0400

Ok so an officer has Bachelors of Arts degree in English. Officer retires after 25 years as LTC. The retirement pay is over $6,000/month. Still think the degree is without value or useless?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2023 10:17 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:17:26 -0400

This is a somewhat complex answer to a simple question.
Sociological factors contribute to it.
In the 1950s studies were done that resulted in the saying that a person who had a college degree would earn one or two million dollars more in their lifetime than a person who didn't have a college degree. Even then, it was the STEM degrees (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) that pulled that number up over other degrees (mostly the humanities). Guidance counselors have never stopped mindlessly parroting that line. The reality is, many trades will now out-earn the majority of humanities degrees by far.
Second, up until approximately 1980, pretty much any degree would get you a job immediately upon graduation. That's why you'll hear so many Baby Boomers say, "Any degree is a good degree." That was true for their generation, but has since changed. And even for those who can get a job, approximately half of graduates who are awarded their Bachelor degrees before age 25 will go back and get a second degree.
Third, there's a certain amount of residual societal-level misinterpretation going on here. In the old days before things like OSHA and ergonomics and other programs transformed the American workplace, a blue collar worker could expect to have his body worn out by age 55. They would see guys working in less physically demanding positions in management in office environments, and the only visible difference between the blue collar and white collar workers was that one had a college degree, and the other didn't. So in the blue collar world, the attitude became, "You can either work with your back, or you can get a college degree and work with your brain." The assumption was that a college degree was a ticket to a high-paying job that wouldn't kill you over time. That was pretty correct, again, up until about 1980, but has since changed. What hasn't changed is government, media and academia pushing that outdated message over 40 years later.
Through the 80s and 90s the costs of an education started skyrocketing far above and beyond the inflation in the cost of living, and the social programming that harangued entire generations into going to college didn't change. So the percentage of Americans getting college degrees went up dramatically, watering down the value of a degree. On top of that, the number of programs not actually teaching employable skills has exploded, watering down the value of a degree even further. As the joke goes, "I got a PHD in medieval feminist interpretive dance studies. Why can't I find a job?"

So in the end, it's not that an English degree or a foreign language degree or a history degree is worthless. It's that the number of people getting awarded these degrees far outweighs the number of jobs available for people who hold them (plus the fact that some degrees legitimately don't give you any real job skills).

Response by MSgt Brian Williams made Jul 18 at 2023 12:25 PM

MSgt Brian Williams — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 12:25:25 -0400

Why do you care? My English degree was a great benefit in my military and civilian careers. I could whip out well written APRs and AARs in no time in the days before computers and auto spell check. Never had one kicked back.

Response by SPC David Elzinga made Jul 20 at 2023 3:42 PM

SPC David Elzinga — Thu, 20 Jul 2023 15:42:35 -0400

Any idea what anyone in a artillery unit can do when they get out of the military?? Good idea to go to school to prepare yourself for when you get out

Response by Sgt Ed Allen made Jul 21 at 2023 12:52 AM

Sgt Ed Allen — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 00:52:04 -0400

What is being looked at is, are you able to set an objective and pursue it to it's end.
Much as the officer courses look at your athletic history, did you play team sports, they also look at whether or not you set a long term goal and actively pursued it and completed your course. It helps to show that you will stick to it.

Even if the 4 year degree is in "under water basket weaving", the fact that you took the time, effort, and finances to complete the degree shows that you can stick to your plan.

Personally, I would prefer the degree be in Information technology, business, cyber security, or other fields that you may need to have an understanding of while in the service, but it still shows that you could finish what you started.

Response by SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman made Jul 22 at 2023 11:25 PM

SP5 Larry (Lawrence) Pitman — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 23:25:24 -0400

In 1967, I had not idea where my life was heading, so I enlisted in the Army. The recruiter urged me to apply for Microwave Communications school (Ft. Monmouth). Much to my surprise, I discovered an aptitude in electronics. Upon leaving the military, I enrolled in college and completed my degree in Electrical Engineering. After graduation, I was offered a professional position in a major electronics company, developing a new technology in micro-circuits. It was made clear to me that the College Degree was the "Ticket of Admission". The degree was an "achievement" and an indicator of maturity and commitment to a goal. In today's world, a college degree, regardless of subject or major, still represents an achievement that sets you apart from those who do not have a degree. Without the college degree, your resume is always stuck on the bottom of the pile of resumes, and the best positions go to those on the top. Note: The lieutenant in charge of my Signals unit in Vietnam had a college degree in Drama...and I had to salute him.

Response by PO3 James Polichak made Jul 29 at 2023 10:47 PM

PO3 James Polichak — Sat, 29 Jul 2023 22:47:03 -0400

When I went to A school in the Navy I probably came very close to getting a Captain's Mast. A friend and I went to the education office because both of us enlisted in part to get the GI Bill college benefits. Like mentioned above i saw literature for majors far afield from anything armed service or nautically related. I mentioned this to my friend and a woman's voice called out "My degree's in animal husbandry."
Being from Long Island i couldn't help but reply "Where I come from that's illegal!"
Luckily the Lieutenant Commander had a sense of humor.

Response by SGT Aaron Atwood made Sep 16 at 2023 11:26 PM

SGT Aaron Atwood — Sat, 16 Sep 2023 23:26:52 -0400

Why do they have degrees? Because they were told and are still being told that only a degree will spell out success for them in life, and unfortunately the military as a whole jumped on that bandwagon -- especially over the last 3-4 years I'd reckon. In my first four years (2006-2010) someone coming in with a Bachelor's was a rarity. Someone coming in with a graduate degree was almost a literal unicorn (officer selection notwithstanding; my statements apply to those who enlisted vs went the officer route from the get go). These days -- at least in my MOS -- coming in straight out of high school seems to be the rarity.

They're also getting degrees because HRs of many jobs out there don't actually know what they actually want in a prospective employee, and just assume that it'll be someone with at least a BS; preferably a grad. Oddly enough though they tend to not offer anywhere near the kind of money such a person with that kind of degree should be getting.

What I'd be most critical of is how are they doing their job compared to those who have the same job yet no degree. Those that can't do the job more efficiently or better -- and yet have a degree relevant to that job -- are the ones who truly have a wasted degree. Even then though it's not the degree, but the professors. As Mr. Miyagi said in the Karate Kid series, "No such thing as bad student -- only bad teacher."

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2023 11:04 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:04:02 -0400

Some of those are useless. However, counter-terrorism has direct applicability to the military. Psych has direct application to leaders of all levels, even if it's from Billy Bob's University, Bar, and Grille. As for English, I wish we had MORE English majors in the military (as long as it's not disciplines like Medieval Astronaut Literature).

Some degrees we have because we saw our careers going differently. For instance, my Civil Engineering degree is less useful as an Aviation Maintenance Officer. I did not expect sequester to shut down a bunch of Seabee battalions. Ooops.

Some degrees were pursued with no consideration of the military. Maybe they got them before they decided to sign up. Maybe they got them for post-military careers. Maybe it's just what they're interested in.

Response by PO3 Matthew Clouse made Oct 5 at 2023 11:35 AM

PO3 Matthew Clouse — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 11:35:53 -0400

The CO of my squadron had a degree in Horticulture.

Response by CSM Bob Stanek made Oct 5 at 2023 10:11 PM

CSM Bob Stanek — Thu, 05 Oct 2023 22:11:12 -0400

SGT Private RallyPoint Member In my opinion, the discipline of the degree does not matter, it is what is inside the soldier that matters. Degrees are needed for officers (commissioned and warrant) to earn their initial rank, while for an enlisted soldier, it helps earn promotion points as they move up their rank structure, as you well know.

Having a degree requires learning numerous skill sets that can't be displayed by things like BS, BA, AA, MS,...etc. Yeah, some of the degrees might hold less weight because of their discipline, but that should not matter. Then again, others hold more significance especially in the sciences like medicine and engineering, but its again goes back to what the individual brings to the table (aka their career). If the discipline really matters, then the source of the education should make a difference too. Harvard, Yale, Penn and all those other high price education centers who generate degrees should hold more weight, against a degree from back-city in the wood university. Again, like the discipline, the location of the degree does not matter either.

I finished my career as a CSM at the 2-star level with a BS of Engineering. That degree maybe helped me in my early NCO years when I was working projects in the field as an MP or as an Engineer, but once I reached the SFC/MSG/1SG rank, my degree didn't mean squat to those I worked with or commanded. Most of the soldiers had no clue I had that degree. Plus, I had numerous opportunities to become an officer, but being an enlisted soldier was my choice from day one even earning my degree before I made SSG. My degree didn't take me to the rank of CSM, it was my accomplishments as a soldier based on my skills I learned while getting that degree. Never expected it to take me to the rank of CSM, but that is another story.

So in my opinion, appreciate the soldier for the degree they HAVE, not what you think they SHOULD HAVE.

Respectfully
Bob S
CSM (R)

Response by MGySgt Mark Kozina made Oct 8 at 2023 7:55 PM

MGySgt Mark Kozina — Sun, 08 Oct 2023 19:55:08 -0400

What you deem useless may have been a goal for someone else. Gaining additional knowledge, regardless of the subject, isn't a bad thing.

Response by LTC Esteban Jimenez made Oct 9 at 2023 12:05 PM

LTC Esteban Jimenez — Mon, 09 Oct 2023 12:05:08 -0400

You mean, a PhD in Intersectional Oppression Studies? LOL. I hear you.

Response by LCpl Michael Cappello made Nov 5 at 2023 6:49 PM

LCpl Michael Cappello — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:49:24 -0500

So they can become OFFICERS.

Response by PO2 Stephen Cline made Nov 5 at 2023 7:35 PM

PO2 Stephen Cline — Sun, 05 Nov 2023 19:35:40 -0500

I wondered that myself. Most of the pilots had Arts degrees.

Response by Col Scott D. Stewart made Nov 19 at 2023 10:36 AM

Col Scott D. Stewart — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 10:36:49 -0500

SGT Davisson, no form of education is useless, it is all based on what each person does with it. The only real question why every person isn't getting some form of educational knowledge, Tech School, College or other forms of learning. America as a whole is way behind other countries, when it comes our education system, we should honor and admire anyone that wants to expand their knowledge. So, let's turn your questions around and ask, why isn't everyone getting involved in education, either at the K-12 grades or higher?

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Nov 19 at 2023 12:23 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:23:40 -0500

I don’t think degrees are useless. I believe what some military personnel do is take a lot of useless chaotic classes to earn promotion points. My case was as stated as above. I took a lot of classes hoping to get to that maximum point level in education for promotion. I took all kinds of correspondence courses as well. When I got out, sadly, none of my college courses transferred over because I took bullshit elective classes. I still had to do the math, English, science, etc. that was required for an associate’s degree. No one told me this, and if they did I probably ignored them. Where I was at, at the time I was in, there were no “ educational counselors” available. Get your associates degree first. Bear in mind, that’s like a high school diploma in the eyes of people with degrees.
.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Nov 19 at 2023 8:04 PM

SSG Eric Blue — Sun, 19 Nov 2023 20:04:54 -0500

Promotion points

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Nov 20 at 2023 10:11 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:11:13 -0500

Useless is in the eye of the beholder. Frankly most go after degrees to enhance their promotion potential. Beyond that, if you're going to spend the time and effort to get a degree it might as well be in an area of interest to you.

Response by CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness made Nov 20 at 2023 12:09 PM

CAPT Kevin M. McGuinness — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:09:03 -0500

I guess it depends on how you use degree. I don’t list my JD on CVs anymore because it’s a non-bar degree and it’s from a defunct university. But during my career I needed both CEUs and legal knowledge. I already had three children and several not so “useless” degrees. When I informed my wife that I was thinking of going back to school to get my law degree she said, ‘How exiting, let me know what it’s like being a single lawyer.’ So I chose an online/correspondence program not approved by the ABA. (I even got some CEUs.)That degree was one the most valuable useless degrees I could have earned. I used the considerable knowledge acquired in tha program throughout my career. I suppose value, like beauty seems is in the eye of the beholder.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2023 12:10 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 12:10:25 -0500

One has to fit classes into ones military responsibilities. For me that meant no classes in physics, chemistry and math. No one provides classes in Quantum Mechanics at night.

Response by CWO4 Jerry Place made Nov 20 at 2023 1:04 PM

CWO4 Jerry Place — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 13:04:08 -0500

I have 4 degrees including a PhD and I retired as a USMCR CWO4 after 30 years active and reserve. I taught Computer Science at a Carnegie R2 for 42 years and served as a staff officer with the 24th Marines. My degrees were immensely important in my meager successes as an officer, even though my USMCR work had little to do with computing.

My general education courses in mathematics, English, History, Physics, etc. made me a much better officer. I was effective at communication, I was confident, and I had the education to see how current circumstances fit with the wider world.

I don't think there is such a thing as a "useless degree".

Response by PO2 Bull Halsey made Nov 20 at 2023 6:40 PM

PO2 Bull Halsey — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 18:40:56 -0500

The Degree itself is an "Interest".
However, the process of EDUCATION itself is the unreplaceable SKILL of LEARNING!

Those four years, or whatever, are teaching the student how to think, building new brain pathways, persistence, critical thinking, perspective, judgement, confidence, and much more.

Response by SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins made Nov 20 at 2023 8:07 PM

SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:07:45 -0500

I believe this is an axiom

Response by MAJ Mike Middleton made Nov 20 at 2023 9:51 PM

MAJ Mike Middleton — Mon, 20 Nov 2023 21:51:10 -0500

....served in both NCO and officer ranks - retiring at 28yrs...degrees are in History - have great pension from the Army and high GS pay grade with another pension coming...useless degrees? ...not at all....

Response by COL Bruce Brant made Nov 21 at 2023 3:55 PM

COL Bruce Brant — Tue, 21 Nov 2023 15:55:10 -0500

Most of what you get from college has little to do with academics. You should learn how to get along with people from different backgrounds. Unlike high school, you will have to grow your self-discipline and study, or you will flunk out. If you have to work, are in sports, or have numerous activities, you’ll learn time management skills. You’ll learn independence by doing your own laundry, creating a budget, and cooking your own meals. Hopefully, no matter what the courses are, you will improve your writing and speaking skills, which are critical for the military. Most importantly, you will learn how to learn. I took the minimum required math and science courses in college. However, as a field artilleryman in the Army, I was trained on half a dozen computer systems. I learned physics by firing artillery rounds miles down range and hitting a target. None of that was taught to me in college.

Response by LTC George Morgan made Nov 22 at 2023 10:37 AM

LTC George Morgan — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 10:37:29 -0500

A degree shows you should have the ability to read, analyze and develop to a higher level. It shows you can diversify. Most people do not wind up in fields of their degrees Once they go to that field in occupation they often have more limitations than if they work in that field. A degree is a different thing not an actual degree that lays the basis for being able to perform work. Like anything else an a degree done the correct way shows ability to do work on your own and to a higher quality.

Response by SPC Tamara Trammell made Nov 23 at 2023 2:08 PM

SPC Tamara Trammell — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 14:08:52 -0500

Most degrees are like military jobs in the civilian sector: the belief that they're not valuable reflects your own inability. Just because you don't know how to use a tool doesn't mean the tool is inherently useless.

My degree is in History. Narrow minds are constantly confused to learn I don't want to be a history teacher -or any kind of teacher. I spent four years learning and refining skills in computer usage, research, communication, logic and reasoning, pattern recognition, formatting, and time management. I currently use those skills in a VA hospital and plan to continue doing so for the rest of my career, not to mention the enrichment of my personal life.

Response by Lt Col Warren Domke made Nov 23 at 2023 4:52 PM

Lt Col Warren Domke — Thu, 23 Nov 2023 16:52:12 -0500

In my opinion there are no useless degrees. A university or college education comes with an entire set of required courses to balance the graduate's set of skills and knowledge. For example an English major will probably take science courses, history and other arts and communicative courses such as speech and foreign languages. All of these add up to a more flexible and trainable graduate. We often associate college and university degrees with the officer corps, but many enlisted members, including NCOs, are degreed as well. A military member has a wealth of opportunities to further his or her education, either through service schools or tuition assistance programs. Also, each service has schools to help develop the knowledge and skills required for the service member's military specialty. Education, whether formal or through experience, is a lifetime enterprise, and the more one is educated the better prepared he or she is to continue to develop as a service member or in any other enterprise. Each service has a set of criteria needed to be a soldier, sailor, airman, Marine or guardian--or Coast Guardsman. The broad set of backgrounds strenthens each service.

Response by SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee made Nov 24 at 2023 8:38 AM

SSG Watis Ekthuvapranee — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 08:38:39 -0500

Because that's what military wants you to know. Because someone's MOS requires it. Because the military needs someone who can read things that are more complicated than a Sunday comic section in the newspaper, mostly that. There are more, of course. Back in the day, anything that is more than aim and pull tricker must have pictures on how to use it. Look at LAW for example or AT-4.

On a serious note, those are some MOS needs to know. Just because you can sign up doesn't mean it is for you. Tell me, what can you learn in a foxhole? You only have what you can carry in the backpack and a duffle bag.

On the other hand, for example, psychology degrees, can be useful if you know how to apply it. For example, PsyOps, where do you think they got their doctrine and methodology from? Without torture, by knowing human nature and distinguishing that from an individual characteristic, we can get a lot of information out of the bastard. I have a minor in psychology, (it would have been my dual major, but that's another story) I learnt to deal with myself and understand what is norm and what is not, what I can improve and what I cannot. I was a little messed up after deployments. I was almost go to jail so many times. Nonetheless, I have Computer Engineering degree, and I can tell you that neural network is modeled of human nerve cells network.

Bottom line is, knowledge is just information, we have to grow the wisdom to use that knowledge. There is a Thai saying, "A diamond to a monkey is nothing but a useless pebble." (not a literal translation, of course). Unless one finds a diamond as big as a palm size rock, he would be gratefully for he can crack more nuts that an average rock, and it was lighter than a granite.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Heath made Nov 24 at 2023 11:35 AM

LCpl Kenneth Heath — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 11:35:48 -0500

It's not just the Military, hundreds of thousands of people have useless degrees that contribute nothing to their livelihood apart from the fact that they can say they have a college degree. I know a man who ended up with a degree in "Ancient Chinese History" from USC, after graduation he had to attend a trade school, (computer programming), to learn something to make a living. Being a USC alumni helped him get his first jobs, but the degree subject has never made him a dime!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2023 10:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 22:40:04 -0500

A degree is far less about the subject and more about the ability to learn, commit to something, concentrate, pay attention and understand. Only about 50% of Students finish their degree, which results in those with a degree earning thousands of dollars more then their pears who did not finish their degree. Everyone has the ability to pull themselves up by their boot straps, but not everyone can with or without a degree, however a degree gives them a head start.

Response by PO3 Bobby Quisenberry made Nov 25 at 2023 10:18 AM

PO3 Bobby Quisenberry — Sat, 25 Nov 2023 10:18:33 -0500

I see most degrees as ticket punching most of the time. Leaders are born, not made, and the military is full of those in positions of leadership who shouldn't be there!

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2023 2:31 AM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 02:31:51 -0500

Online “Degree Mills” are not worth the paper they are printed on as they are not accredited. Online Degrees from an accredited college or university, regardless of the field of study, all have value. Each one you mention, all have value as they are a step to further studies. Interdisciplinary Studies is usually only at the Associate Level at Community Colleges to help those still working on a Major for when they transfer to a four-year college for the advanced Degrees. My advice as a former NCO to you is to pay a visit to the Education Center. I showed this post to mine. They, with the representative from the University of Maryland, provided my response.

Response by SFC Frederick Dalton made Nov 26 at 2023 10:09 AM

SFC Frederick Dalton — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 10:09:24 -0500

Because any degree is worth promotion points. It doesn’t have to be a practical or useful degree. It’s called “gaming the system”

Response by 1stSgt Ronald Sheps made Nov 26 at 2023 12:07 PM

1stSgt Ronald Sheps — Sun, 26 Nov 2023 12:07:30 -0500

I have a better question for you. Why do so many people feel that the only way they can seem taller is to find a way to stand on others?

Response by PO3 K H made Dec 14 at 2023 8:15 AM

PO3 K H — Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:15:37 -0500

A fellow Seabee wanted to finish his Civil Engineering degree. The Navy said they would commission him and send him to the fleet. He finished his degree and is now a Lt Col in the Army. Not a useless degree but proper placement would enhance the service and service member !

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Dec 17 at 2023 7:59 PM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 17 Dec 2023 19:59:33 -0500

It all depends on how these people try to use them. While you're doing college in the Military, I know in the Army, you get promotion points. I have a degree in Homeland Security, which somewhat helps me with my current job as a Merchant Mariner working for Military Sealift Command

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2024 9:03 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 21:03:33 -0500

How do you know they are mills? If it is from an accredited institution and get a soldier into OCS, or WOC, is it useless?