Why do some discourage enlisted personnel from pursuing a commission?

SPC Christopher Smith — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:37:34 -0500

<p>    When I speak to NCO's and even some Officers about attempting to Commision, I am often asked, "why do you want to go to the dark side?" I do not understand why it is looked at so negatively that myself, or others do not want to continue a career path on the Enlisted side of the house. </p><p> </p><p>    I personally believe I have talents more suited in the Officer Corps. Having Enlisted with a BA in Business Administration with a concentration in Management, and almost two years through my first contract. I am a little more qualifed to Commision than some new Undergrads fresh out of college and hot off the street. I would just like some clarification on this practice of questioning, and demeaning someones career path outlook.</p><p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>I see things getting a little off topic, the things being said are not affecting myself, but how is this influencing others? Acknowleding that this is happening is the first step in a possible way to correct it. Are we as leaders becoing additional barriers in our juniors careers by not fully supporting them when they seek advice, directly or indirectly? </p><p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>Since this topic is picking up steam once again, this is an informational question for future JSM's whom might be seeking guidance. I am about 60% sure I will be getting out of service after my first term (at least that's how I feel right now). Please offer your guidance for those now and in the future.

Response by SSG Zachery Mitchell made Feb 20 at 2014 9:40 AM

SSG Zachery Mitchell — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:40:26 -0500

I personally do not do this. No one know yours life better than yourself. If a Soldier or fellow NCO wants to commission, or try to go warrant I will fully support them and assist them if necessary. I see nothing wrong with seeking self improvement and if you want to transition to the Officer Corps for your self improvement who am I to judge you and tell you no?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 9:48 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:48:18 -0500

<p>I have seen this done. </p><p> </p><p>You sound like you know what you're doing and know what you are getting yourself into. I believe when you hear this from officers, they may be dissappointed in duty position or how their career is progressing. I have also had lower enlisted come to me out of the blue and ask me about going officer, when I ask them why, it ususally has something to do with being in charge and more money, which is precisely the wrong answer when it comes to making an informed decision.</p><p> </p><p>Like SSG Mitchell said, no one knows better than you. You have been around the block, make a informed decision and execute. </p><p> </p><p>Hope this helps.</p>

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 9:49 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:49:50 -0500

Each person is different in thier reasoning for this.  Some are very proud of thier roll in the enlisted side and that is why they would make comments like this.  Others just don't want to get out of their comfort or knowledge zone so they badmouth the other side.  They may have had poor officer leadership.  Whatever the is reason that a person has for downgrading or badmouthing your decision,  is not important.  I have know quite a few enlisted with Masters Degrees and they love what they do. They would make great officers but have chosen the career path that they feel best suites them.  Don't fuel the fire by arguing but turn the questions back on them for facts.  What do they see are the reasons that the enlisted side is better?  Why would it be a poor decision to become an officer?  Don't let someone elses negativity persuade you from pursuing your career goals.

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Feb 20 at 2014 9:58 AM

1SG Eric Rice — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:58:11 -0500

There is good advice as well as bad advice given on a daily basis to soldiers of all ranks. What you must do is take in the information and make an informed decision. Even bad advice can be a positive thing as it will result in critical thinking and coming up with a solution that benefits your situation. Which ever path you choose to go down, continue to move forward and encourage others to make those decisions for themselves. There is never a good reason for holding someone back from progressing in their career.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 10:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:13:02 -0500

It also just depends on the job that you want to do. Many enlisted 11B's will not go to the Officer side for one of 2 reasons. 1) Pride 2) They get to interact with the PL daily and they see his job..... they see that unless it is Platoon or Higher training the PL does not get to participate in the fun stuff like Demo and the Shoot house yeah he might get to run through it if he makes a spot for himself. They see that he is sitting in the office nonstop doing CONOPS, OPORDS, Range briefs, property accountabily, shortage annexs, with the Army going so digital I am lucky to have my PL at any sort of training unless it is an actual stint in the feild. He is an amazing PL but he and I just get murdered all day long with Admin. I have always tinkered with the option to go Officer but I have progressed well through the ranks and happy with what I do. Also, we currently have more LTs and CPTs chosing the REFRAD option than we do younger Soldiers ETSing that speaks for itself I think.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 10:20 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:20:01 -0500

If becoming an Officer in the Army is one of your goal--go for it. :) You heard the saying, "in one ear, out the other"-- focus on the positive and strive for the best. No will walk or shape your career path for you, but you. You know what your strength and capabilities are. If being an Officer is what you want to become go for it, kudos to you. I fully support your decision.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Feb 20 at 2014 10:22 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:22:50 -0500

I was one of those.....not that I would tell others "not to cross to the dark side", but tell MYSELF that....I got my nursing degree, and was a solid NCOIC of a medic section in a Mec Inf company.  Then I discovered that I was putting my nursing license at risk every day I put on the uniform (medic can not work above level of medic and state nursing board said I would not work below my license of RN).  I had no real choice but to get a commission.  I still to this day associate better with enlisted/NCO then many of the officers.  It took me quite a few years to feel comfortable as an officer (have never had problems with confidence in my job set tho!). It took 11 years as an officer to finally surpass my enlisted/NCO time....  Not an easy road, but do-able.  Pay IS higher, responsibility is different (not always more, but different).  I find it rewarding, however, there are days I still wish I was an NCO!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 12:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:26:42 -0500

Don't worry about what other people have to say. That is one problem with the way things are going in the world. We are too worried about what everyone else thinks. It is, after all, your career in the long run.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Feb 20 at 2014 9:42 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:42:32 -0500

SPC,  We call it the dark side just the same want Lower enlisted talk about NCO's or the Army talks about Marines, etc.  I would hope that they are not actually trying to keep you from advancing to the "O" Corps.  We all have a mission in the US Army, I am proud to be a Non Commisioned Officer, but do not look down on the Officers.  I know that it is my responsibility to mentor and train the Lower enlisted but also the Officers.  This is why an old crusty E-7 and E-8 are Platoon Sergeants and First Sergeants.  To help mentor the young Officer.  If you watch in your career, the best Officers in the Military had exceptional NCO's that did not belittle them, but took the time to groom and mentor them.  This is why I blast any NCO that mistreats young Officers.  We have all ran into that SR Officer that despises NCO's, this is because he had toxic NCO's that belittled them or disrepected them as a young Officer.  Those that had exceptional mentorship turn out to be great leaders that respect there NCO's and allow them to do their jobs.  If you want to be an Officer, there is nothing wrong with that decision.  It is what you are meant for.  Dont allow anyone to belittle your decision!  Good Luck!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 9:57 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:57:46 -0500

Great question SPC Smith, I will give you my personal answer for turning down OCS. Officers are in fact in charge and with that does come great responsibility. They have the honor and privilege of command! With that said I am an infantryman, I have served soldiers my entire career and had thousands under my charge. When it came down to it I asked myself how much does an officer really interact with soldiers outside of being a platoon leader or company, battalion, brigade etc commands? I kept watching and observing officers pouring over power points, MDMPs, staff meetings and not to knock any of that because it's extremely hard work being on a staff the question was a note worthy question! How much would I be around soldiers if I commissioned? How could I impact soldiers more as an officer or by staying a NCO? Sure in command I could make policies but only for 18-24 months of command and guess what? Right back to that desk being a staff officer AGAIN....waiting for that next command....AGAIN only to give it up 18-24 months later and go back to....that desk. We need great motivated soldiers like yourself to volunteer to become officers but do it because you want to!  

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 10:14 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:14:47 -0500

Why do people who aren't teachers discourage people from becoming teachers? (Switch out police officers, accountants, nurses, etc)  There are certain jobs that you either have an internal passion for it, or it's not for you.  People who don't have that, don't get it, can't get it, and don't understand why you feel as you do.  Some people who enter these professions (or become officers) do not really have that internal motivation but do it for other reasons - it wasn't the right fit for them so they assume it would be a mistake for anyone.<div><br></div><div>I've seen your posts and read what you have written here.  You've got it.  It's about management.  Find those who "get it" and ignore the rest, but don't stop talking about your goals.  Don't let anyone shut you up.  </div>

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2014 11:18 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Feb 2014 23:18:59 -0500

If you feel your skill set is better utilized in the officer corps, then don't let anything derail you. We all want to make the Army a better place than we found it. <div>I keep my SGT rank under my collar as a symbol that I will never forget where I came from. My 7 enlisted years and deployment shaped my views and made me better prepared to meet the challenges I face as an officer. I don't think everyone needs to take the same path. Some of the best officers I have worked for never did any enlisted time, just as the best NCOs I know are better left in the enlisted ranks. Sometimes you get a great NCO who becomes a better officer. Sometimes there's someone who struggled in the enlisted ranks because they were better suited to being an officer. It all depends - just listen to your gut and go with what feels right.</div><div>I don't regret my decision, sometimes I miss being an NCO, but that's always going to be the case. I am happy where I am and look forward to the future. </div>

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2014 2:11 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 02:11:33 -0500

For my part, I was straight officer, but I remember when I was young and much more naive, I wondered why anyone would rather be enlisted vs officer.<div><br></div><div>But now, with much more experience under my belt, I've observed how much more personal influence a good NCO can have (and what a difference they can make) in their soldiers' lives and how much that line of work allows them to be an expert that my role as an officer doesn't allow me to get into as much. I'd be lying if I said I weren't a bit envious of it sometimes, especially since I've been a field grade and haven't had as much personal interaction with the junior ranks.</div><div><br></div><div>Are there benefits to being an officer? Obviously. But a good NCO is like gold. Better, because it takes so much time to develop one. No shortcuts. So while I've had some NCOs that I've encouraged to become officers, I'm much more likely these days to get them to think about the real differences in those careers long term and what they want to get out of their service in the long run. I suppose that's why I sometimes jokingly give the "dark side" comment when an enlisted soldier asks me about becoming an officer. Not meant to blindly discourage.</div>

Response by SFC Mike Olson made Feb 25 at 2014 4:41 AM

SFC Mike Olson — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 04:41:58 -0500

It's hard to generalize but I imagine it's related to a feeling of rejection. If you as a young soldier/NCO go to a Senior NCO and express an interest in commissioning, many times what they hear is "the path you chose is not good enough for me". They take it as an insult. I'm not defending this stance, just explaining it. I agree that some soldiers are better suited to the demands of being an officer and some are better suited to the demands of being an NCO.

Response by CSM Christopher Irwin made Feb 25 at 2014 4:50 AM

CSM Christopher Irwin — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 04:50:49 -0500

While not popular stud, I will say what others will not. In my 23 years of service I have NEVER heard any green to gold or direct commission Soldier say they were doing it for anything other than active duty or retirement pay. That being said, someone needs to be that guy that plans mission, sits through meetings, and has little contact with the Soldiers in their charge. When approached as a young E-6 as to why I didn't drop my packet it was because I didn't want to lose my ability to be both. <br><br>NCOs have a unique ability to throw off their ACU top, throw in a dip (if they partake), curse a blue-streak, and dig a fighting position with the Soldiers. Five minutes after the position is dug, they throw the dip aside, don their ACU top, dust themselves off, and brief in the command and staff on a level commensurate with their officer counterparts. We have to be able to relate (really relate) to our Soldiers on both sides. Officers don't often have that luxury as their schedule and requirements often do not permit them to do so. <br><br>Bottom line is: If you are happy with your decision and want to go officer, go...worry not about those that say things that may be construed as not politically correct because I can assure you as a 2LT you'll certainly hear it from seniors.<br><br>I have the utmost respect for the officer corps and what they endure on a daily basis...as a CSM I too endure their pain often - but in my opinion (and we know what those are worth), the profession of arms should NEVER take pay into consideration. There are those that can bring the "knuckle-dragger" basal leadership to the table and those that cannot. You pick your direction, stick with it, and endeavor to be the best, whichever side that may be.<br><br><br>

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2014 4:59 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Feb 2014 04:59:25 -0500

Specialist Smith,

First of all, do not let opinions of others discourage your determination for knowledge! Even if you decide not to pursue officership, you should want to gain perspective. As 1SG Rink pointed out, there are many things that officers do throughout their career that many Soldiers never see from their foxholes until later in their own career paths. Some might dispel your aspirations because they do not have the same aspirations, not to sound to cliche, but misery loves company so keep your head up. We need great leaders in all capacities, so don't settle for the answers you have been receiving that seem negative---great NCOs take pride in their career and want the same from their Soldiers.

People who turn you away or turn you down might be selfish to some degree, so seek out the right leaders who will take the time to give you some mentorship. It doesn't always have to be an officer! Some of my best advice comes from Senior NCOs, SGMs and CSMs, as they have trained all of their officers. Also, I would recommend speaking to some seasoned Chief Warrant Officers as well. There are many options and paths to get where you are going, so take notes and keep asking more questions.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2014 7:49 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 07:49:59 -0500

A lot of great responses to your original question. For perspective, I have 31 years of.service, 14 of which I have been an E9 with 8 of those as a CSM. my son son.expressed a desire to join and I told him only as as officer. I always encourage my Soldiers who desire the WO or Officer Corp to pursue their dreams.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2014 2:55 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:55:23 -0500

I am currently a SFC who will be commissioning through the green to gold
active duty program on May 9th. I based my decision to seek
commissioning as an officer for the same reason anyone in our Armed
Services seeks promotion and progression, whether your moving from SPC
to SGT or 1LT to CPT, in order to not be stagnant in my career and limit
myself or my capabilities to become a better leader. Also I would like
to say don't let giving up on your goals be an option. I was rejected
for OCS because of my age and TIS; I switched gears with no intention of
going back to school applied and was selected for active duty green to
gold which allowed me to get my Master's degree and meet my ultimate
goal of commissioning.

Without work faith is dead!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2014 12:10 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:10:52 -0500

SPC Smith, in reference to my original post (via smart phone - explains the short and grammatical errors!). First of all if you are going to serve until you are eligible for retirement the money is better. At my level I work just as hard or harder than the great LTCs and COLs that I work for and yet they their base pay is considerable more. I have an associates in business, a BS in intel operations and I am 50% complete with a Masters of Public Administration. Once you get to my age and you start looking at retirement you realize that you should have taken that Prep School (to West Point) nomination you received as a young Specialist in 1983!

Caveat: I emphatically believe that the best officers in the Army are former NCOs! There are exceptions of course - Those on this string and else where know who they are.

BTW, thank you for your service and I know which ever choice you make you will continue to be an asset to the Army and to Soldiers.

Response by CPT Keith Steinhurst made Feb 28 at 2014 1:27 PM

CPT Keith Steinhurst — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:27:26 -0500

Specialist, let me give you the same advice that one of my Deans once gave me: "You are the god of your own creation." Let me also tell you that (having been an enlisted member) the battlespace is completely different as an officer. Many other officers have remarked with great insight and wisdom - learn from these ladies and gentlemen. If you are qualified and desire a commission - seek it - do it now; I saw a lad directly commissioned this month, he was a young E7 and he was a very young E6 - likely could have made SGM, he will go far as an officer, but perhaps not as far as he could have had he done it sooner. A mentor and friend of mine was a dual status SGM on AD and CPT in the USAR, when he retired as a SGM, he was advanced to CPT on the retired list, our Army does not have these any more, but I share that to let you know that a lot of things are possible within the regulations - few people know all the trick, or can navigate all the traps - so, if you need mentoring, let me know. Good luck!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2014 10:21 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 22:21:54 -0500

I would endorse you as an officer and feeling you have 'it' is a valuable tool in leadership and performance.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 9:47 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Mar 2014 09:47:01 -0400

I would not look twice on the people who try to discourage you, if YOU are up for a challenge and know deep inside that You can make Army better do it. I was enlisted myself, took my stripes off and started all over, why? Because I noticed things which were not right, I wanted to fix them, help troops and of course I wanted to better myself. Everyone will have their personal reasons, but remember Your advancement is also responsibility for the troops and missions you get assigned.

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Apr 22 at 2014 1:40 PM

TSgt Kevin Buccola — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:40:08 -0400

I am all for Enlisted joining the Officer ranks, I've had the pleasure and honor to work along side many prior service enlisted members. And as a supervisor, you should let your people excel.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 4:34 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:34:50 -0400

I feel a lot of the enlisted have a negative view of officers because they only see them when they are in trouble or are getting chewed out for not saluting them/similar situation. I deal with officers daily in my career field, I feel they are more in line with the civilian equivalent of upper/middle managment. If that is where you feel you belong and enjoy doing, go for it. I know that from a maintenance perspective, we value prior enlisted that commission to straight commissioned officers. Often we get alot of LT's and Cpt. from other career backgrounds and they end up mismanaging things sometimes. Personally, if you have the credentials and the drive to be an officer dont let other people disuade you from attaining your goals.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 10:07 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:07:31 -0500

I am going to say what probably will not sound popular. Bluntly, people trying to talk you out of it may be doing it because they are jealous that you may one day be their supervisor. That is unfortunate.

If you believe that getting a commission is something you want to pursue I would look into it. Understand that being an officer has its rewards but also some cons. As an officer you are the first to be called on the carpet when things go wrong. You are the solely responsible for the actions of your unit.

The big difference in officer vs NCO is that you are not as hands on with leading day to day tasks. You are responsible to see those things are occurring. I would say as a career move for someone in your position it makes the most sense to bridge into the officer ranks.

People bock at the pay increase. But in life getting a boost in pay can be important if you have future endeavors. In 4 years a Captain makes close to a 20 year E-9. It should not be the soul motivator as there is a reason for the pay. The saying the buck stops here is definitely true. If you have a degree already, it does make sense to make the transition as long as you understand the full responsibilities of what you will do.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 11:50 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:50:51 -0500

I'm a huge advocate of green to gold type programs and feel that some of the best officers I had the pleasure of serving with were Mustangs (prior enlisted). In the Navy, there's a program for LDO (Limited Duty Officer) which calls up enlisted (E-7 and above) to become officers providing the expertise they've gained through years of experience.

Personally, I'm interested in this topic as I got out of the Navy about 12 years ago (after also serving in the Army) and am looking to get back into the Army, at least to the Reserves (now that my education is out of the way), and am seeking a direct commission after re-enlisting. I feel that I am not only more educated now, but I'm much more mature and am far better suited for a leadership position than I was in my 20's.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Dec 8 at 2016 4:28 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 04:28:55 -0500

I found most the time it was the Officers above that tried to talk Me into entering a program to become a commissioned Officer, as 24 year old SSgt I though I knew more than I did and didn't follow up on it. I was on a 2nd enlistment and decided to get out, i was going to be a civilian. Well the grass is always green in the other fellows yard until You get there and find out half the lawn is dead. There are believe it or not things that can happen to You as a civilian that in the military there is a remedy for. After being a civilian for 8 years I Entered the IMA Program (Reserve slot in an active duty unit) with USAF and got back into Air Force Uniform as a SSgt. (lost the time in grade due to the length of time) Did rise from SSgt to SMSgt a grade I held over 6 years. Turned down CMSgt as i would have to relocate and spend two years in that grade to retire as an E9 and retired as a SMSgt., E8, I now had My 20 years in, 22 to be exact in Air Force blue. I even spent some active duty time as 1st Sergeant in the active duty unit as well as other Senior NCO duties. I can't make a decision for someone else, You have to decide for Yourself. There are time I wish I did but I can't turn the clock back. I still have no regrets though, it turned out ok.

Response by SGT James Colwell made Dec 8 at 2016 1:55 PM

SGT James Colwell — Thu, 08 Dec 2016 13:55:05 -0500

NCO's, at least in the Army, traditionally are looked on as the backbone of the Army. Some take that a bit too far. Some may just be giving you a hard time in a joking manner. I had two EM's from my squad actually begin the commissioning process. I don't know how far they got, as I separated from the Army before that process was completed. As an NCO, I was honored to have EM's have the motivation to work towards a commission. I wouldn't worry too much about this. If there are some who are serious about counseling you to not pursue it, I would suggest you find out why. They may have some legitimate reasons that you may not understand. It could be a career saver. Nothing wrong with becoming a commissioned officer or proceeding up through the NCO ranks. Both are honorable choices. Just do your due diligence to make sure whichever path you choose is teh best path for you.