Why do some leaders not follow guidance that has been established?

2015-08-06T06:46:32-04:00

This is a great example of a leader trying to make their own rules and not following established guidance. Also, why is this CSM wearing an airborne tab over his First Army SSI-FWTS (combat patch)? Calling bullshit on that one.

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/08/05/csm-contradicts-camo-roll-out-policy-fuels-confusion/31177599/#

CSM contradicts camo roll-out policy, fuels confusion

A command sergeant major, in a video to his soldiers, appears to contradict Big Army'smessage on new camouflage wear.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 6 at 2015 6:51 AM

2015-08-06T06:51:01-04:00

Sounds like "Do as I say not as I do"!

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 6 at 2015 6:52 AM

2015-08-06T06:52:08-04:00

"The more things change the more they stay the same."
Leaders always enforced standards that they themselves didn't feel the need to follow, at least during my career.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 6 at 2015 7:03 AM

2015-08-06T07:03:40-04:00

Without seeing the actual video, I can only make limited assessments, however there were some key phrases that were quoted:

"A reader watched the video and flagged Army Times, commenting: “The CSM of the Vermont National Guard has outlawed soldiers from wearing the OCP until January, which seems to be in defiance of the SMA's policy and intent.”

A READER said that, not the CSM. The Army Times didn't even say it. They didn't cite their source, they just provided E4 Mafia scuttlebutt info.

When we get deeper, we find:

“I really do not want to see my E1s through E5s rushing out and spending two months drill pay to get this uniform,” Quick told Army Times, saying soldiers might feel compelled to buy them if others did. “I 110 percent support [the SMA]. He said it’s going to take time, we’re going to have mixing and matching of UCP and OCP, and it’s ok. And I agree with him.”

This seems more accurate, and actually goes straight to the horse's mouth so to speak. This actually seems reasonable, and based on my limited interaction with SGM Steve Wettstein, I could see him saying something along the same lines. Or something to the effect of (not to put words in his mouth):

"Guys, don't waste money if you're uniforms are still servicable. You've got plenty of time until the wear out date. Don't rush out and feel you have to swap to the new pattern."

All that said, this seems like the Senior Enlisted Adviser providing clarification, and actually trying to take care of his guys. He's in a drill unit, and he's trying to save his folks money. I have a feeling a handful of troops got the message garbled, and it went from "Don't worry about getting the new pattern immediately" (which is exactly within guidance) to "Don't get the new pattern until next year" (which is outside guidance).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 7:22 AM

2015-08-06T07:22:17-04:00

I would say the SGM has a bit of selective hearing. When the Army was transitioning to ACU's, there was a lot of similar guidance with mixed uniforms for formations. I think in this example the Vermont SGM was trying to prevent his 'Call of Duty' reservist Soldiers from going out and spending all of their money to replace all their uniforms and equipmen in the first months after release.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 6 at 2015 7:41 AM

2015-08-06T07:41:55-04:00

Some think they're better than the established practices most just weren't mentored as they rose thru the ranks and don't know better .

Response by SSG Robert Webster made Aug 6 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-08-06T08:21:26-04:00

Number one for all of those talking about the CSM's tab on his combat SSI; it is NOT an Airborne tab, it IS a Mountain tab. Either some of you need new glasses as I do, or you need to take a closer look and not be confused.

Next, before spouting off about what is authorized, etc. learn about the individual, in this case the CSM. And if they have a published biography, check it out first before opening mouth and inserting foot. The CSM while an E-8 and while assigned to A Co 3/187th IN (MTN) in 2003 and 2004.

Next check the history of the unit that said individual was assigned or attached to when they earned their combat recognition. The 86th IBCT (MTN) SSI was only reauthorized in 2006. The authorized SSI of the unit in 2003 and 2004 was the First Army SSI w/Mountain tab.

Finally the question about the Mountain tab has been heavily discussed ever since the 10th Mountain Division was reactivated. Most individuals just do not remember about the VT Army NG and their Mountain Warfare School and unit. This is not the first time that the question has been raised since 2002.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 6 at 2015 8:39 AM

2015-08-06T08:39:28-04:00

Unfortunately I can't access the article/site from work

Uniform policies could be dictated on availability also. We got a partial issue of ACUs at MOB Station in July 2005 but our command in defense of uniformity wanted to wait until everyone had ACUs before authorizing their wear. We were in country and received the remainder of the issue in Dec 2005 so the command allowed everyone to wear them in Jan 2006.

Response by SGT William Howell made Aug 6 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-08-06T09:05:50-04:00

I am pretty sure I never went against whatever any CSM said. He could have told me to show in formation in a thong, an M9 and rubber gloves. Guess what SGT Howell would have showed up for formation in?

Response by SGT William Howell made Aug 6 at 2015 9:17 AM

2015-08-06T09:17:17-04:00

How the fuck do you know what is and is not acceptable? You need to have a full time assistant to keep up with the 670-1. It changes by the hour. You want to stop all this confusion? Get a damn uniform and stick with it. Chocolate Chips, ACU, BDU, Whatever they are calling this turd, Multi Cam, DCU. That is just what you wear to the places where people try and kill you. God forbid you go to the office. What do you wear for that? Big Army get your shit in one bag!

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 9:39 AM

2015-08-06T09:39:25-04:00

I will stick out a better question. Why is the Army changing uniforms again? Didn't they just do that a few years back? Seems like a waste of taxpayer money.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-08-06T09:44:37-04:00

I think sometimes its an ego/pride thing. At Ft. Riley when ACUs came out, it was mandated that 1AD people get the ACU right away. Essentially, no formation would be mixed. However, in my BDE, 1ID, my BN CSM went the opposite way. We had a recruiter come to the unit and had nothing but ACU. He was told to go get BDU as we were all going to be the same.

I really don't get it. Wearing the same thing in garrison during a transitional period does nothing to ensure that more bad guys die and less of us get hurt. Lets focus on those two factors when making harebrained decisions.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Aug 6 at 2015 10:43 AM

2015-08-06T10:43:58-04:00

I see a couple of subtle differences between what is quoted and what is inferred, and to me this is nothing to be alarmed about.

1. "refrain from" ≠ "outlawed"
2. “as little mixing in formation as possible" ≠ "can't mix and match"

SMA Dailey's spokesperson is also mentioned as saying it’s not Dailey’s intent nor his job to micromanage units over uniforms.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-08-06T12:45:02-04:00

Stuff like this kills me. I read something about how CSM are trying to write and establish policy. That is not their function. Command policies should come from commanders. The commanders should work with their NCOs to develop their polices and the need for them. So many I have seen 1SGs go out and just make stuff up. It is insane when you seen different companies in the same battalion that are all held to different standards. I had a 1SG try to act as the Commander once. It didn't go down very well. I just spoke to my CO and the 1SG felt that he was going to do what he though was better without consulting the commander. I think NCOs are great and they do great things but they are not commanders. All I want to do is be an Officer. I don't want to be an NCO. So I stay out of NCO business so I expect NCOs staying out of Officer business.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 6 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-08-06T13:25:44-04:00

It's a lot easier to ask for forgiveness than permission sometimes... I've seen this done Base/Wing level the past by some good Sr NCO's that were just as confused as their troops, and rather than let the troops get the repercussion, they (more than one) would knowingly "defy" the rules in order to force higher to further clarify. After all, who's gonna yell at a bunch of E9's for attempting to follow a rule that wasn't "clear" to him and the rest of the affected force to begin with? And it usually immediately got the desired result. However, I don't think this is the case here, and leaders like those have become almost non existent...