Why do units insist that a SM wear the unit patch as the combat patch while deployed with that unit? I resist this.

2016-07-03T18:53:11-04:00

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 7:01 PM

2016-07-03T19:01:10-04:00

Esprit de Corps. I have heard this one before. I found it wasn't a hill I was willing to die on. Oddly more common the closer one gets to the flagpole..

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 7:38 PM

2016-07-03T19:38:17-04:00

Units do what they want to. I did not wear a combat patch on my last deployment they are not required.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 3 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-07-03T20:25:22-04:00

I was always led to believe "love the one you're with." Thankfully, I haven't been deployed anywhere with a bad unit or a patch I would want to wear on the right sleeve. I hope the same for you!

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 3 at 2016 11:51 PM

2016-07-03T23:51:34-04:00

I resisted that too. I wore a Combat Patch that I earned from a LRSC (Long Range Surveillance Unit) that had less than 160 people that wore it. So that I wore because it was different.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Jul 4 at 2016 3:15 AM

2016-07-04T03:15:55-04:00

I did two tours in Iraq with units under III Corps and Fort Hood, two separate different unit patches. It was never mentioned, while we were in Iraq, let alone encouraged, demanded, or questioned. However once we returned back to Fort Hood there were some instances of disagreement and infighting about solders who had more than one combat tour patch being asked or pressured into wearing III Corps patch instead of a different patch the soldier felt more Espirit de Corps, or pleasure or preference in wearing. I was witness to one Colonel pressuring another Colonel to wear his unit's patch instead of the Colonel's patch of personal preference. I wore my first patch because I liked that unit best. I was never asked or had it mentioned to me why I wore it instead of the current unit's patch. It was a patch from Fort Hood and almost everyone knew the unit. Perhaps it is the fact that I was a SGM so no one cared or maybe dared to ask.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 4 at 2016 9:40 AM

2016-07-04T09:40:48-04:00

It is simply about showing unity and Esprit Des Corp with the men and women which you have deployed with. This should be the least of our concerns when deployed. We all go back to our unit favorite after returning home anyway.

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 10:31 AM

2016-07-04T10:31:29-04:00

Hey, stupid, quasi-related question:

You deploy with Unit A... then you deploy with Unit B. Now you're assigned to Unit C. Which combat patch do you wear, A or B? Is it your choice or are you supposed to wear the most recent?

Thanks!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2016 1:47 PM

2016-07-04T13:47:08-04:00

SSG Kristopher Rigdon You're right, technically, but is this really the hill you want to die on? Wear the patch you want to wear when you return from deployment.

Response by SGT Tracey "Tra" Cooper-Harris made Jul 4 at 2016 9:20 PM

2016-07-04T21:20:24-04:00

We didn't wear our unit's patch as our combat patch when deployed (but we deployed 2002-2003. Different time...blah blah blah). I probably would do the same if I were in your boots. I guess they may have you wear it for esprit de corps during deployment and uniformity. But, you can always chose to wear what is "authorized". It's not mandatory, like nametags, US flag, branch of service. Hell, we had a COL who served in Vietnam during our deployment who had his combat patch + "tower of power" (SF, Airborne, Ranger). And no one questioned why he wore that and not the other badges he earned on his uniform.

However, it became interesting when our deployment was over, as we had 3 patches to choose from:
3rd MEDCOM The unti responsible for us during deployment. (And I say responsible tongue in cheek...)
ARCENT (Over 3rd MEDCOM and a glorious history of being Patton's Army patch, but pretty common)
IMEF (Marine Division we supported when OIF kicked off). We chose IMEF because of the uniqueness of the patch & the honor we had in providing support/assistance for our Marines.

Response by CSM David Hopkins made Jul 4 at 2016 9:47 PM

2016-07-04T21:47:20-04:00

Personally I have never required any Soldier to wear a specific patch over another one, but have been in units that "highly suggested" we wear that unit patch if authorized. It is kind of like the 101st Airbirne Division "requiring" Soldiers to wear their Air Assault wings above the Airborne Wings, even though they both are the same class of badge. As others have said, I do believe it is for the esprit de corps and nothing else; show pride in the unit you are with.
I do wish people knew the regulations better though. I have copied and pasted an excerpt of AR 670-1 that pertains to this question about the SSI-FWTS.

(d) The Chief of Staff, Army must approve the authorization for wearing the SSI for FWTS.
(3) Unless otherwise approved by this regulation, Soldiers attached or under operational control (OPCON) to other services are not authorized to wear their patches as their SSI-FWTS without written approval from DCS, G-1 or a designated representative.
(4) Soldiers of all Army components (Active, ARNG, and USAR) who deploy during periods of service designated for wear of the SSI-FWTS are authorized to wear a SSI-FWTS. There are no time-in-theater requirements forauthorization to wear the SSI-FWTS. Soldiers may not earn more than one SSI-FWTS during the same deployment.(a) A deployed unit (company or higher) will wear its unit SSI as the SSI-FWTS, regardless of the headquarterselement deploying and the unit alignment or OPCON during the period of deployment.
(b) A deployed unit will not wear its assigned SSI as its SSI-FWTS when the SSI belongs to a major command, such as an ACOM/ASCC/DRU or State Area Command, or a non-deployable unit. In such cases, the unit will wear the SSI of the lowest echelon Army unit (company or higher) in the deployed chain of command as the SSI-FWTS. Whenthere is no intermediate unit (company or higher) in the deployed chain of command, these deployed Soldiers will wearthe SSI of the senior command in the theater as its SSI-FWTS.

I put that in here but can summarize in a few sentences. There was a comment about being able to choose from three different patches, that is incorrect, you are only authorized one per deployment. You cannot wear one from a different service and you must wear the patch of the unit you are assigned if your company or higher deploys.

Response by SSG Kristopher Rigdon made Jul 4 at 2016 10:01 PM

2016-07-04T22:01:22-04:00

I was approached in Theater by a SGM from the 10th mountain division. He wanted to know why I as a SSG was not following the guidance put out, all were to wear the 10th patch. I let him know that I had 28 total months with the unit I was wearing. And lost 6 friends in that unit. As soon as the 10th CAB exceeded that I would continue wearing my patch. Granted I used more tact.
I know the reg so why are SGM making police where the reg is clear it is the SM choice

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 1:27 AM

2016-07-05T01:27:41-04:00

Come and get it, Sergeant Major. Be sure to tell me how "your way" trumps Army Regulations.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 10:21 AM

2016-07-05T10:21:31-04:00

I irritated the MMB (and my Team Leader) in Iraq by not wearing the Med BDE patch that the MMB that we fell under wore instead wearing my unit patch. Team Leader said I had to wear the MMBs patch, and I responded with the regs...tactfully of course...she quieted down. The MMB CDR and CSM gave me dirty looks but deep down knew they couldn't say anything to me. During our TOA ceremony, I was one of two in my unit that WASN'T wearing the 44th MED BDE patch.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jul 5 at 2016 12:18 PM

2016-07-05T12:18:03-04:00

Your question, should be posted as why does your wife/husband, force you to wear your wedding ring.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2016 3:29 PM

2016-07-05T15:29:51-04:00

The Army Times had a few articles on this in 2008. I was there when the 1ID CAB was trying to force TF Odin personnel (reservists) to wear the 1ID patch even if they were authorized to wear another patch. In the end, General Hertling had to put out a policy letter stating that Soldiers had the choice. The Commander and CSM then proceeded to act like asses and went to the chow hall, both wearing patches from their former units and marching down each aisle with their right sleeve in front going "see, see! We're cool, too!"
I had been wearing the 1ID patch but after that display....nope.

But also remember that during a ceremony, they can direct what you wear...TOA ceremonies and returning home are great examples.

Oh, and we display Esprit de Corps by us all wearing our patch on the left shoulder....

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 5 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-07-05T15:50:13-04:00

Same reason why some units want everyone to put their wallets in the right cargo pocket and ID card in your left breast pocket......

Response by CPT Ray Doeksen made Jul 5 at 2016 6:22 PM

2016-07-05T18:22:26-04:00

Which ones you're authorized to wear is a bigger issue, there have been plenty of changes ... but soldiers are not required to wear a SSIFWTS ("combat patch" ... shoulder sleeve insignia for former wartime service), and if they can wear more than one SSIFWTS then soldiers can alternate from one to another, but they cannot wear more than one at a time. Combat patch should be your call, on an individual level, just about the only case where it ever is your personal call.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Jul 5 at 2016 9:05 PM

2016-07-05T21:05:43-04:00

Seems To be an Army issue. Marines don't have to worry about badges , patches other extraneous do dads. Name, rank, Marines is all that's needed. Back in my day no name. Unless things have changed of course. My signs AF attached to Army, he deployed wearing 10 Mountain patch, he's deployed now with 2/2 Stryker, for all intensive purposes he's now Army, except his SSGT rank.

Response by SSG Keith Bodiford (Ret) made Jul 5 at 2016 9:16 PM

2016-07-05T21:16:41-04:00

Courtesy to the host unit. You are not required to unless its an event oriented uniform situation.
On my last deployment my BDE CDR wore his 101st patch (not our unit patch)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 12:20 PM

2016-07-06T12:20:53-04:00

I agree and I also resisted. During my deployment there was a huge push for everyone to wear the unit patch, whether it was your first or fifth deployment.
Many of the other junior enlisted were hot to put on the combat patch as soon as we hit country. My thought was this; we are deployed, this is my first deployment and there is no need to wear something that I was in the process of doing/earning. Other than our "patch ceremony" (in country) where in a company formation my PSG placed the combat patch on my shoulder, I never wore it overseas. I hardly ever wear it now at drill/AT.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2016 4:14 PM

2016-07-06T16:14:04-04:00

had many sm's in my unit with all different combat patches, some of which were sof, they did thier time with these units and under the regs deserved to wear those patches, my time was you wear what unit you deployed with even though i qualified for the big red one, which i still have the certificate, i was civil affairs, things changed after 07-08

Response by SFC Wesley Arnold, Jr made Jul 13 at 2016 9:47 PM

2016-07-13T21:47:18-04:00

As already mention I could see it as an esprit de corps thing; my CSM wore a 1st CAV (Viet Nam) and after Desert Shield / Desert Storm he continued to wear the 1st CAV, until he retired.

But then again why would a BCT want to strip all assigned Soldiers from wearing SSIs; because there is a rift in the BCT between Soldiers with and without SSIs. I do not see this as a BCT problem but as a leadership challenge; to be fixed at all levels. Might as well take of unit patches to because some units talk bad about other unit on post. Since most of these type questions come from combat and combat support MOSs; how about the CIB/CAB/CMB/EIB/EFMB or those in airborne units what about those with Novice / Senior / Master parachutist badges ... why not take everything off the uniforms both utility or dress uniforms and just keep it all in their individual files.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2016 3:45 AM

2016-07-24T03:45:11-04:00

I referred my Command to DA PAM 670-1 when I was lectured about wearing my 4ID patch (from OIF 1&2) instead of the patch for this most recent deployment. The BC outright said he tried to find a way to make everyone wear the same combat patch, but later he relented. As for this nonsense about "not offending rookies", I don't need to remind anyone that we were all rookies at some point in time. My leaders before me had earned their combat patches and I knew, even as a PFC, that my time would come to earn mine. For that matter, that's the mentality I expect from my subordinates in this day and age.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 7:36 AM

2016-08-09T07:36:55-04:00

Don't forget that AR 670-1 is no longer the full story- it directs you to now the supplement DA Pam 670-1 to tell you how to wear the patch. Paragraph 21-17 specifically says soldiers authorized more than one have the option of choosing which to wear, or electing not to wear. On top of that, don't buy fully into the "local guidance can be more restrictive than the regs." The rule is the rule, and the role of local commanders policy is intended to implement the regs and fill in the gray areas. Here it says the soldiers can choose their own patch in black and white. I don't know what commander presumes to say he is going to take away your choice that is specifically authorized in the regs, but they don't have that power.

All that said, sometimes it's a matter of picking your battles...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 8:13 AM

2016-08-09T08:13:58-04:00

When the "policy" was pushed my way when back in the company area, I would just take my original issue off and re-fit to roll back out. In the days of sew-own; I just ignored the rants from higher.

Response by SFC Orlando Bryant made Aug 9 at 2016 8:24 AM

2016-08-09T08:24:34-04:00

The commander can request it under the guise of uniformity. He or she can add to a regulation, but not take away from. Your soldiers are watching so as you pick and choose what orders to follow, so will they. You are undermining your inherent authority as a NCO by doing that. What will prevent them from picking and choosing your orders when they see you doing the same? Your making a statement through your actions that you are above everyone else and the policy doesn't apply to you. Is that the message a leader should send?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 9:11 AM

2016-08-09T09:11:08-04:00

Part of the ARMY VALUES. Some will push for the Loyalty block on an NCOER to get a NoGo if you do not wear it.

Response by MAJ Alex Hernandez made Aug 9 at 2016 9:16 AM

2016-08-09T09:16:06-04:00

Unless there was a change in the regulations, the combat patch on right shoulder is worn after leaving the combat theater. Until then, the Unit patch is worn on the left sleeve.

Response by SPC Duane Anderson made Aug 9 at 2016 10:21 AM

2016-08-09T10:21:27-04:00

Former SPC Asshole over here. I never understood why dudes of any rank would openly try to look different in a formation or ceremony. "Oh hey look, we are 98% uniform." You have pockets. Make the formation uniform when it's done put your fave merit badge back on.

I otherwise don't understand making soldiers wear patches of the current unit. Some soldiers worked hard to earn those patches and should wear them until end of service, some soldiers earned them with blood. Command policy to wear a patch is odd. "Oh hey you put boot to ass to earn that patch, but now come wear this weird patch no one wants." It also makes you look like you've deployed once and are still a cherry.

But let's make our formations look good. Take off the weird boots, don't fold your headgear weird, ditch the high speed shades, and look like a kick ass unit.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 10:23 AM

2016-08-09T10:23:01-04:00

You guys wear patches down range....?

Response by SGT Tim Soyars made Aug 9 at 2016 11:04 AM

2016-08-09T11:04:02-04:00

When I was in, I didn't see much of this. Even when it was "a thing", I never encountered anyone who would approach a soldier with a certain patch, i.e. SF, Grenada Rangers, WW2 (We still had a few), Korea. Got out before Panama, so my experience stopped with Grenada.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Aug 9 at 2016 11:20 AM

2016-08-09T11:20:34-04:00

READ AR670-1 IN WILL GIVE YOU INSITE ABOUT WEARING A COMBAT PATCH WHILE DEPLOYED

Response by SFC Luis Rodriguez made Aug 9 at 2016 11:22 AM

2016-08-09T11:22:20-04:00

Don't be selfish... Wear your units patch with pride! The argument is not necessary!

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 11:41 AM

2016-08-09T11:41:38-04:00

Look it up in AR 670-1. I'm with you...

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 11:53 AM

2016-08-09T11:53:08-04:00

I haven't had this issue while with a unit, but I did have this issue with an ROTC cadet. Transitioning from an NCO just back from a deployment to a cadet wasn't easy for me at first. It's hard to let go of the NCO mentality. ROTC cadets wear a school patch in place of an OSSI patch while in uniform. I had an MS4 correct me on it the first week of my first semester. We got into a disagreement over it. I said I wouldn't switch them out, it was my option. Short story, the Cadre supported me, but I got lectured that cadets don't threaten to rip another cadet's arm off and beat them with it if they touch a combat patch.

Response by CW5 Thomas McLaughlin made Aug 9 at 2016 12:04 PM

2016-08-09T12:04:16-04:00

Two questions:
1. Are you deployed?
2. Are you in combat, or in a Combat Zone
If you can answer yes to both questions, the patch is authorized; so you should wear it, and be proud.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2016 2:27 PM

2016-08-09T14:27:14-04:00

Having worked in public affairs for a number of years, I can say that it is very helpful for us when a Soldier wears the same combat patch as their current unit of assignment. It looks pretty strange when publishing an article about the 10th MTN DIV and there is a Soldier in an accompanying photo is wearing a combat patch from the 82nd ABN. Of course everyone here reading this knows the difference. But that doesn't stop dozens of people from pointing out the apparent "discrepancy" (because, of course, everyone on the internet is an expert.) Plus it helps us to tell the Army story for that particular unit. As an individual Soldier, the decision is always yours and I will support that.

I think the legend, Billy Preston, said it best when he stated, "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."

Response by SFC Thomas Butler made Aug 9 at 2016 6:56 PM

2016-08-09T18:56:37-04:00

Wow! THIS is what you're worried about? I think you need to recheck your priorities.

Response by SFC Timothy Dutcher made Aug 9 at 2016 7:03 PM

2016-08-09T19:03:02-04:00

I am not sure why anyone is wearing anything on their uniforms when they are deployed.

Response by SSG Don Maggart made Aug 9 at 2016 7:44 PM

2016-08-09T19:44:04-04:00

I Did as well but I had a few of them I just went upstairs and changed one out for the other 2...laffs

Response by MAJ Todd Lamb made Aug 10 at 2016 1:01 AM

2016-08-10T01:01:44-04:00

Wow, I wear whatever I am entitled to, and zero Generals and zero CSMs can say otherwise.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Aug 10 at 2016 1:22 AM

2016-08-10T01:22:38-04:00

GAD ,mine was 1st Cav ...THEY HATE that.

Response by MSG Chuck Pewsey made Aug 10 at 2016 3:12 AM

2016-08-10T03:12:49-04:00

This is a new one on me. I retired in 92' after Desert Storm and we wore the unit patch on our left shoulder though the SGM asked me why I didn't have it on my right when we were coming back - I wore MACV as I had when we deployed.

Response by SFC Don Vance made Aug 10 at 2016 10:38 AM

2016-08-10T10:38:28-04:00

I never experienced it personally. My Commanders and CSMs always allowed the soldier to make the choice.

Response by SSG Lance Sawyer made Aug 10 at 2016 11:34 AM

2016-08-10T11:34:12-04:00

It's kind of ridiculous how many changes have been made to the AR. When my battalion was deployed in 05-06 we were awarded 4 combat patches. 2 of which are marine corps patches. Now according to the AR we aren't allowed to wear the marine corps patches. But I don't think anyone in the brigade even cares what it says. I've seen full bird Colonels on down the line, and CSM's on down the NCO ranks wearing one or the other or alternating between 3 of the patches including the marine corps patches.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Aug 10 at 2016 5:00 PM

2016-08-10T17:00:39-04:00

I will put this way, if you are married why do you force your spouse to wear her/his wedding ring while you are deployed?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 4:00 PM

2016-08-16T16:00:58-04:00

We should be like the Marines- don't wear any unnecessary garbage on your combat uniform...when you get captured, how about a little OPSEC? Instead, the Army Times practically publishes deployment orders....you don't think ISIS, al Qaeda and the DNC read the Army Times???

Response by SPC David Dupey made Aug 17 at 2016 12:15 AM

2016-08-17T00:15:23-04:00

so the lower enlisted know you are in there chain of comand

Response by SSG Tim Ingle made Aug 30 at 2017 4:37 AM

2017-08-30T04:37:22-04:00

The only time my unit requested this was when we got off the plane returning home from deployment. Of course it was an easy decision for all of us since most of our belonging's burned up in tent fires in Kuwait. So when we were reissued uniforms they had the unit patch's sown on both sides and we didn't have access to any other patches. OIF 1-1.5 2ACR

Response by MSG David Johnson made Dec 24 at 2017 2:57 PM

2017-12-24T14:57:36-05:00

While I was in the 8th ID we were required to wear the 8th ID patch, once we left the 8th, we could change. I chose the 3AD patch and wore it pretty much the rest of my career until authorized the 1st and 2nd MEF FWD patches.
Unique patches for working for the Marines, I'm proud of the opportunity to have worked with them in the Ramadi area.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jan 4 at 2021 3:16 PM

2021-01-04T15:16:48-05:00

The service member is allowed to wear any earned combat zone patch they earned and with velcro it is easy to change.I always liked to pudh the edge carefully staying within bounds (officer in RVN era with 32 months in the country) and elgible for Three. If I hade velcro i would have kept a set of patches and changed them troughout the day for fun. example MACV to work change to 20 ENgr Bde ow way back outside and at lunch maybe wear the ENGR CMD patch simply because I could. But sew on made me fix some one way and others another. It is SM choice what ans wether to wear.