Why do veterans have it so hard after leaving the military?

SPC Arthur Lowder — Tue, 04 May 2021 08:05:48 -0400

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2021 8:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 May 2021 08:20:47 -0400

https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/2017/07/29/report-young-vets-are-more-successful-than-their-civilian-peers/

Report: Young vets are more successful than their civilian peers

Young veterans are better educated, better paid and better off than many of their civilian peers, which researchers believe could be due to their military service.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 4 at 2021 8:43 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Tue, 04 May 2021 08:43:44 -0400

There isn't one answer to this. Some suffer because they move back home and no longer have the workplace that serves as a brain trust of like minded individuals who have similar goals and similar experiences.

Others suffer because they don't have the structure they have become accustomed to over time.

A lot suffer because they didn't use available resources to prepare for their exit from Military service. They have what I call the getting out plan. Some folks focus so much on getting out that is their only plan. They have no plan beyond getting out and they end up at Mom's house and panic because they didn't do anything to get ready. They end up working the third shift at Walmart because they didn't apply for school, they don't have disability coming in because they didn't plan ahead with the VA, they didn't apply for jobs or sometimes they didn't even think of what they would do. They were so hyper focused on EAS'ing/ETS'ing they didn't do anything else and they end up a bump on a log trying to sort it out after the fact.

Other vets suffer because they have alot of unaddressed medical issues because they never went to medical to get it documented out of fear or stigma and they have an uphill battle trying to get VA benefits for undocumented issues.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 4 at 2021 8:48 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 04 May 2021 08:48:30 -0400

Same reason prisoners have a hard time when they get released. Institutionalization.

Response by LCDR Keith Trepanier made May 4 at 2021 8:59 AM

LCDR Keith Trepanier — Tue, 04 May 2021 08:59:11 -0400

Perhaps some cannot write a coherent sentence and that makes it more difficult?

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made May 4 at 2021 10:09 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 04 May 2021 10:09:50 -0400

Which veterans? My experience has been that the majority of veterans who were good in the service also are relatively successful after the service. Now the folks who were unwilling to apply themselves in the service, it should come as no surprise that they are unwilling to apply themselves to a new job or career, and prove to be unsuccessful. Of course there are exceptions both ways - but generally speaking good Soldiers (Zoomies, Squids, Marines, Coasties, Guardians of the Galaxy) become good civilians.

Response by SrA John Monette made May 4 at 2021 10:10 AM

SrA John Monette — Tue, 04 May 2021 10:10:45 -0400

because they are not informed or fail to seek any information to make the transition easier.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2021 10:52 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 May 2021 10:52:28 -0400

The military instills discipline. Use that discipline to plan, set goals, and implement your plan. You can succeed if you set you mind to succeed.

Response by SPC Brian Jones made May 4 at 2021 11:48 AM

SPC Brian Jones — Tue, 04 May 2021 11:48:24 -0400

So many answers to this.
On the soldiers side:
The gift of Shaming which the service helps with
The lack of thinking for themselves
The "fuck it" attitude
The Just enough to get by attitude
Most of us are not people persons' and seen as assholes
the list goes on and on.
For the employer:
They are scared of us, we kill people (so they think)
They need a person that can think outside of the box and they don't think many vets can
Lack of understanding with how most vets truly are.
Again this list is endless.
Even worse when you have a disability rating.
My employer did not want to give me a job to start with. He gave me a chance to show him what I could bring to the table. He never looked back after the first month. Now I run the IT department of a rapidly growing medical lab with several people under me. There is a prejudice against hiring vets. People think we are shot out and broken. Can't blame them for that. I am broken and shot out, but I know how to focus my gifts and training to an advantage.

Response by SSG Eric Blue made May 4 at 2021 11:56 AM

SSG Eric Blue — Tue, 04 May 2021 11:56:30 -0400

Now THAT is a question! From what I've seen firsthand and in third person, it's difficult to adjust for some. You're used to being regimented in this way or that fashion while you're a green-suiter. You know...you're used to giving and getting direction no problem. You know THIS TIME is for THIS ACTIVITY and it's fairly easy to organize your day because of the order that you've grown accustomed to. For those in leadership roles, there's also being able to tell (insert rank and name here) what to do and it's going to get done...usually without any lip or BS. Maybe a request for guidance, but not much more talking beyond that. Then that same leader is out in the world expecting that same obedience from this pimple-faced, 20-year old asshat who is high almost all the time, looks and smells like they haven't washed in three days, still lives with their parents, and feels like the world owes them something instead of getting their act together and earning something. And when that former military leader encounters that situation, they sometimes get angry, belligerent, and very frustrated because they now have to re-learn how to deal with people. Most long-term former military leaders don't have the patience for that. What I've mentioned is only a small piece of the answer to the question.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made May 4 at 2021 12:16 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Tue, 04 May 2021 12:16:04 -0400

According to legitimate studies they don't.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2021 12:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 May 2021 12:44:38 -0400

I would think the few that have it hard, either made it that way themselves by failing to understand the situation fully... or they are failing to make their own situation better by reaching out to the resources they have. When I left, and during my break in service, I struggled for the first month or so after active duty. But, I took what I had, worked the channels I knew of and was a better person overall. It is the individual that make the individuals life better or worse, not the situation.

Response by SFC Randy Hellenbrand made May 4 at 2021 1:08 PM

SFC Randy Hellenbrand — Tue, 04 May 2021 13:08:56 -0400

Because for the most part, we have left an organization that actually took care of and valued us and have went into the civilian world that could give a shit less for us.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made May 4 at 2021 1:09 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Tue, 04 May 2021 13:09:00 -0400

It could be due to a variety of reasons - no single reason fits everyone. My first ETS (Navy) was in 1971 - one year after returning from Vietnam as a Marine Corpsman. Prospective employers were obviously not thrilled about Nam Vets - two actually told me they don't hire Nam Vets, or anyone who was in Germany because of drugs. Made me fume. The job I finally got didn't have pleasant co-workers - NONE were Veterans. After nearly 6 months, I joined the Army.
I got out of the Army in Dec '78 and was hired for security at a major steel producer. The only Vets in the department were WW2 guys - one a former POW in Germany; another a 2nd Ranger who landed on D-Day at Pointe du Hoc. No Korean Vets, and not a single Nam Vet - only one USAF Vietnam ERA Vet. The Vets were all okay; the non-Vets were FUBAR and worked harder at NOT working than actually doing their jobs. After 24+ years there, the company cut 450 of us - anyone between 20 and 30 years time. The mantra was to "cut healthcare costs, and PENSION costs." With a guaranteed pension at 30 years, they whacked anyone close, and anyone with extended illness/injuries of themselves, OR family members.
I have FEW friends who were pure civilians - meaning, non-Veterans of military or police service. All my friends are Veterans and cops/retired cops. I have a low tolerance for civilian attitudes. One executive told me that, "Veterans are all alike! You guys want everyting black and white!" and another told me, "Guys who chose the military instead of college are all stupid," -- that was before he found out I was a Vet. Since I was a department head, he ASSUMED I was, "one of the boys," because I was the only Veteran who was a department head.
In the military, one of the primary things drilled into us was, "There is NO exuse." In the civilian world, you get everyting from, "I couldn't sleep last night," or other lame excuses that would make me shake my head and wonder how business can survive with lazy, undedicated people. Civilians!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2021 1:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 May 2021 13:28:33 -0400

Indoctrination and institutionalization. We don't really get well prepared for going back into the civilian world. Sure there's SFL-TAP now. I will find out how that goes in a few years...but similarly with (as stated below) prisoners just kind of get tossed back into society with no type of rehabilitation or reintegration into that society.

Many people don't plan before they get out too. It's not all on the military to ensure that - it would help but some servicemembers just flat out don't plan for life after the military.

Add in some people who do 20+ years, this is all they know, and they can't adjust to not being the one in charge anymore. I've seen several SGM/CSMs retire and not handle civilian life very well because no one cares or knows what a SGM is outside the military.

I mean I'm a little nervous about life after the Army when I retire just because it will have been 20 years since I applied for a job. Had to do an interview. Not having the schedule I've had for 20 years. It can be daunting for people for such a big life changing event. I'm sure I'll be fine but it will be an adjustment.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made May 4 at 2021 1:35 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Tue, 04 May 2021 13:35:30 -0400

ON READING OTHER REPLIES, it's apparent that some of us took the question in a variety of meanings. Some read it as Veterans failing overall, and not having been informed about VA resources, and was to ease transition into civilian life.
The qustion, "Why do veterans have it so hard after leaving the military?" to me, involved how Veterans who thrived in the military, found civilian attitudes and work ethic lacking. Most Vets that I hired had a solid, "Can do!" attitude that frankly, civilians did NOT like. Supervisors liked that attitude, but peers were put off - maybe because they were concerned about Veterans jumping ahead, or just making them look less valuable compared to Vets with "Can do!" attitudes.
I found (and still do) civilian work ethic and attitudes abhorrently lacking, at least generally. Of courrse there are exceptions - those who took advantage of advanced training (Fire Fighting, Emergency Medical Services, Confined Space Rescue, Security Training Courses, etc) were also looked at by their peers as a "threat." Sickening.

Response by SGT Peter Paden made May 4 at 2021 2:11 PM

SGT Peter Paden — Tue, 04 May 2021 14:11:35 -0400

Those that applied themselves to the task at hand didn’t find transition to civilian life. Those that faced combat and survived learned to hide their mental issues for the most part. Bottom line is DOD puts emphasis on creating warriors than transitioning warriors to be a civilian again

Response by SP5 Ray Carletello made May 4 at 2021 3:44 PM

SP5 Ray Carletello — Tue, 04 May 2021 15:44:35 -0400

Hell I got out to get out of military poverty don’t get me wrong love my country and the military but in the 1970 was pretty bad. No one help me transition to Civilian life or told me what my VA benefits were how to apply for a injury benefit. For a VA rating

Response by AN Ronald Norris made May 4 at 2021 8:45 PM

AN Ronald Norris — Tue, 04 May 2021 20:45:38 -0400

I AM A VN VET DAV I AM AGENT ORANGE THANKS TO MILITARY OPERATION RANCH & PTSD I HAVE LIVED A POOR QUALITY OF LIFE,I KNOW WHAT U GUYS ARE GOING THROUGH

Response by SSG Brian L. made May 4 at 2021 8:46 PM

SSG Brian L. — Tue, 04 May 2021 20:46:18 -0400

Suddenly purposeless, lonely, lack of exercise, job market anxiety, school anxiety, cultural anxiety, your hometown has moved on without you while you were in................................. barracks life may have blown but you were never lonely unless you wanted to be

Response by LTC Eugene Chu made May 5 at 2021 9:28 AM

LTC Eugene Chu — Wed, 05 May 2021 09:28:26 -0400

Many reasons, but one is false confidence in for-profit education. Some personnel or veterans attend a for-profit school with the belief that it will improve their chances for civilian career success after service. They instead struggle due to existing biases and lackluster network

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/why-these-veterans-regret-their-for-profit-college-degrees-and-debt

Why these veterans regret their for-profit college degrees -- and debt

A new documentary illuminates how veterans have been particularly vulnerable to abuses by the for-profit college industry.