Why do we allow failure of leadership?

2015-07-01T08:34:40-04:00

How is it going today currently in the military everyone says leadership is the most important thing. But yet we see the lower enlisted who just joined the military seem to think that they actually have more range of experience and seniors. Not just didn't see you as an officer's but specialist as well who may have been and as long as the NCO's and the officers as well. And that raises the question where his leadership actually gone? At the end of the day the thought pops into my head why don't we put the leadership back on the NCO's bring back hard leadership physical correction not just the counseling statement? The next thing is why would we take away from the leaderships why take the power from the NCOs they are supposed to be our direct leadership are NCO support channel yet it seems like more and more every one wants to just push away from the NCO's and try and leave themselves. We need to put the power back to the NCOs and allow them to do correction more than just a counseling statement or push for article 15 bring back the physical punishments the smoke sessions or possibly reduce the smoke sessions to a reasonable amount. I came in 2010, when I first joined just getting to the new unit as a brand new private I was smoked as being the new guy but I saw quickly that it wasn't just smoking it was being taught a lesson to learn respect of leadership of me. Which raises one thing for me. Coming from Military family background respect is everything to me, yet more and more I see total lack of respect from privates two PFC's who seem to think they're entitled to more respect than the senior people who are already above them who have been in longer and have more military experience and knowledge. Why have we left the Military get to this level of the moralizing and absolutely breaking people just because it seems like the right thing to do? Who says this is the perfect idea of a perfect way to lead people? Because the last time that I checked the Military itself is about respecting your leadership and following orders that you're given. Yet when it comes to certain things why do we have people who can't pass the pt test or height and weight or the tape test? Yet they are put in a leadership position? I don't think it's correct to do that, just how are you going to lead someone when you can't even do the tasks that you expect them to do? But everyone has their own ideals of leadership maybe we should start compiling ideas and improving leadership that we already have and take that as an example of what we should possibly fix. Toxic leadership is one of those horrible things that we have in the military right now, there's no way around it some leaders are toxic to unit and that has to be fixed if we are to have a military and has a high morale and good work ethic. I'd like to see other ideas on how we can make this happen and possibly this be a reality. And someone will get enough to push it up to the highest leadership possible in the military. That is all I just love to see the ideas that people would have to improve what we have already started.

Edited: If anyone reads this wonders why the sentences aren't exactly perfect I used the voice recognition on my phone to do this because typing I wouldn't be able to type it because of my problem that writing I can't say what I would love to actually say for some reason.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 8:36 AM

2015-07-01T08:36:12-04:00

If anyone reads this wonders why the sentences aren't exactly perfect I used the voice recognition on my phone to do this because typing I wouldn't be able to type it because of my problem that writing I can't say what I would love to actually say for some reason.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 8:36 AM

2015-07-01T08:36:55-04:00

This thing we call "leadership" in situational; it is not inherent in a particular rank or position. Rank and position merely allow more formal ways to demonstrate leadership--sadly , not always well.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 1 at 2015 9:14 AM

2015-07-01T09:14:07-04:00

Wow, okay this is one heck of a post. A bunch of thoughts and ideas flying through out it so it took me a few reads to get through it.

SGM Private RallyPoint Member really did sum it up. Leadership is based on the situation you are looking at. The one thing I can tell any young Soldier is this, when you see what you think is a failure in leadership, remember it. Remember how you felt, remember the results, and remember how they came to that choose. Then when it comes your turn to lead, pull from those memories to shape your leadership style. Take some of the good, mix with some of the bad and work towards improving what you can improve. You can't change the big machine but you can effect your team. Do what you know is right. Learn from those around you. Set the example.

Response by PVT Robert Gresham made Jul 1 at 2015 9:30 AM

2015-07-01T09:30:56-04:00

If these things truly bother you then take it upon yourself to change them !! Hold yourself to a higher standard. DO NOT let the perceived lackadaisical attitude in your unit change who you are as a Soldier. Your professionalism will drive others to follow and will set you apart from your peers. When you are the one in a leadership position then you can begin to hold your troops to a higher standard that you have already set for yourself.

You could also elect to change your MOS, to 11 series at the end of your current enlistment, or, if you really want a challenge, put in for Ranger, or other Special Operations Groups. In those specialties you will definitely see a big difference in professionalism, and the leadership holding troops to that higher standard that you feel is lacking in your current unit. It is a hard life, but it is totally rewarding. In other words, the choice lies with you !!

Response by SSgt Scott Schwerman made Jul 1 at 2015 10:06 AM

2015-07-01T10:06:24-04:00

Leadership is failed because there are too many lazy people who do not take action and just ride the wave. Being a leader takes motivation to wanting to be that leader. You don't have to be the best at what you do, but willing to put out and guide people.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 10:39 AM

2015-07-01T10:39:43-04:00

You refer to being upset about a lack of respect. There is respect that is given automatically and there is respect that is earned. You respect the rank (hopefully) automatically but you respect the person because they earned your respect. If my actions are reflective of my words and you know I will have your back then perhaps I will earn your respect. There are many leaders who's primary concern is are they checking the right boxes in order to make the next rank, they're not concerned for the health, welfare, safety and morale of their troops because they have no connection to them other than when they stand in front of the formation, plt., or squad. These are the toxic leaders that cause good troops to decide to leave the Army, looking for something better. This happens enough and all you're left with are toxic leaders.

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jul 1 at 2015 10:47 AM

2015-07-01T10:47:08-04:00

Reading thru this is difficult - many thoughts grouped together, but I will attempt to address a couple points. You mention several "tools" that are typically used to correct certain behaviours. A good leader will know what tools are available and use them appropriately. You mention physical "punishment" and "correction" and it should be OK for both of these - not sure why we need to "bring them back" - I myself have been told MANY times throughout my career to "Gimme 50" - to me, I assume that's what you are talking about - and it's still happening today as far as I know. I don't relate that to the most important leadership quality (how to dish out "punishment" or "corrections") - I think the most important thing a good leader can do is encourage, "build up" the people and lead by example - and it's more important (in my opinion) to have this skill set!
And - what SGT Ben Keen and SGM Private RallyPoint Member said! :-)

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 11:09 AM

2015-07-01T11:09:48-04:00

This post is excruciating to pull what the intent and direction is. However, I would tell you this:
CPT Private RallyPoint Member said it well. Additionally, who said that leadership is perfect or that leaders cannot fail? The Army never said that you cannot fail, but that you should learn from your mistakes and not repeat them. To NOT give Soldiers that freedom is setting them up for failure and fostering a negative environment.
It sounds as if your complaints are derived from a negative experience in your current unit. As others have said here, exercise your option to transfer or to reclassify into a different MOS. Remember, every unit has its' own distinct identity (leadership starts at the top). Some are better than others.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 1 at 2015 5:12 PM

2015-07-01T17:12:55-04:00

The problem is leadership and the new recruits. I am very happy to be retired.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-07-07T22:01:36-04:00

It's true that there has been a degradation of the general respect for rank among new recruits in the last few years, but that has only increased the need for leaders to earn the respect they need to lead. CPT M Cannonie put that well. A point that is often overlooked is that an NCO, or any leader, must earn respect from their leaders as well. I've seen many instances where junior troops felt their NCOs didn't have the power they should, but it was because the NCOs hadn't earned the respect of their superiors. We have to show the boss that we deserve the power to truly lead by living the Army Values and by consistent mission accomplishment. It's even harder when your new Commander is coming from a unit with weak NCOs. We have to be the best to be treated like the best.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 10:12 PM

2015-07-15T22:12:17-04:00

To all who have responded to this thread. I have read every comment responded to some as well and taken advise I am working myself harder to show the leaders that I can be one of them recent changes have taken affect in the unit. Some I wish would still change but will take work to get changed but I am taking a lot of advise to keep my standards high and push myself and keep bringing issues I see up to higher. Thank you for all of the advise it all has helped me learn more and how to be more effective as a soldier and hopefully soon leader as well.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 15 at 2015 11:02 PM

2015-07-15T23:02:09-04:00

So reading through everything I have seen a lot of good points made. I have seen a few problem children come and go. I myself have been in a position were I respected the rank but not necessarily the individual it happens from time to time. Almost all those who have "authority issues" should have this corrected at basic training and then the few who make it back to the unit (at least my unit any ways) get handled. They may have gotten any from smoking guys but there's always not so fun jobs that need done. Having said that it is essential for the NCO'S to take care of their members. I believe that every NCO should take it a step further and take care of any one who has been over looked or "left behind". I say that from a personal experience I had as a younger E-4 in the air force. During a hurricane relief mission I had been over looked by my NCOIC who happened to be an E-8 and was left manning a position 4 hrs after my guys had left in negative temps an Army E-6 took care of me and made sure I was good I will not forget him. He set a standard in my mind that I strive to uphold.