Why do you need Guns? Why do you need to vote?

2015-10-06T15:29:53-04:00

I wanted to pose this discussion differently by addressing those asking about why we should have the 2nd amendment, why should you be able to own "XYZ", why do you hate children, etc, by using a different line of thinking, basically replacing "gun" with "vote".

Why should you have the right to vote? Should voting not be highly regulated and only allowed for those who are deemed worthy by the government? After all, a collective of voters will put a candidate into power, and on the national level that has dire implications. You could vote a person into power that may spend trillions of dollars on a myriad of programs, some you may or may not agree with. Those programs could be life or death for millions of people. The laws they enact could save or hurt lives (both physically and/or emotionally). The wars or actions these people take not only put our lives at risk but the lives of countless millions throughout the world.

I understand why the 15th and subsequent amendments concerning voting rights were established, but we're past that now, it's beyond race or sex discrimination, the old laws are irrelevant. We have to make every single person directly responsible for their vote so that it can't be bought off/sold either through direct benefits like appointments to office, receiving social benefits, getting favorable action from the government, etc. People need to prove that they are mentally capable individuals that are in their right mind when they vote, hence everyone should get a screening. Further, everyone should be put into a database, fingerprinted, and required to have a state license proving that they have been deemed qualified to vote. It doesn't matter if you as an individual are responsible with your vote. It doesn't matter if you've studied history, the candidates, are well versed on politics and the issues; it's "everyone else" that we are worried about.

And troll.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Oct 6 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-10-06T15:33:03-04:00

Guns are our constitutional right. We need to vote to keep our constitutional rights!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 6 at 2015 3:47 PM

2015-10-06T15:47:25-04:00

It's not about "need." Need is irrelevant when discussion Rights.

But remember, the Government doesn't "allow" anything. It Prohibits things. There is a difference.

Everything is allowed unless it is prohibited. That's how Freedom works. Our system, realized that the Government would quickly add prohibitions, so it enshrined Protections against Prohibitions. We call it the "Bill of Rights" which is a Misnomer. It's the Bill of Protections. It says what our government cannot Prohibit, not what we are Allowed.

It's never been about "need." The problem is that most people don't take Civics classes, and a solid portion of those who do, don't understand the 4 page document which we call the Constitution, or the 2 page Document we call the Declaration of Independence, nor how they came about. Both of which can be explained EASILY in a single afternoon.

Neither document are hard to understand. None of the Protections are hard to understand. None of the Amendments (et al) are hard to understand. Heck, how they work together isn't even hard. It's not until we get DEEP into the interpretation of case law does it get tricky, and even then most of that is pretty easy to understand once you understand the clauses.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-10-06T16:29:14-04:00

Captain-Interesting points, but with respect, I disagree.

Fundamentally, our society has become too co-dependent. In my humble opinion, the root cause of most every argument we are facing on the national stage is a resounding lack of self-reliance which re-enforces and expands self-control. People want someone to hold their hand, tell them what to do so that they end up "Ok"...reality isn't structured like that, and those types of societies always breed tyranny-sometimes by the group.

A weapon of any kind is a rudimentary statement of self-reliance. If used properly, it represents the ability to provide and protect...the capability to react to, rather than be enacted upon by fate.

Do we need better resources for identifying/treating people with mental illness? Probably...but it starts with understanding what forces, psychological, pharmacological and physical that create mental illness first. Do we need better "screening" for gun ownership? No-it would be impossible to "fairly" determine who and who isn't a potential mass murderer, so the regs would default to the "safe" position that would inevitably lend to no one being able to own a weapon.

We need to stop raising children to look for the "safety net" and start teaching them to "climb".

We need to stop glamorizing and glorifying evil and start instilling responsibility and compassion based on morality.

Give a self-reliant adult a weapon, and they become part of a strong society...give a weak, confused, eternal child looking for "identity" a weapon (or a vote)...and you get what we are all afraid of.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Oct 6 at 2015 4:39 PM

2015-10-06T16:39:08-04:00

We don't need guns! We need to Vote to sustain our Liberty! Our Vote in a way is our Voice!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-10-06T17:22:40-04:00

Unless I'm interpreting some of the responses incorrectly, i think some of you may have missed my trolling point, like seriously missed it.....some of you appear to not recognize a trolling post even when it says "and troll".....in time you will master this.

Anti-second amendment types / anti-gun types / etc want to restrict the ability for people to have access to guns, and use some of the "arguments" or want some of the "restrictions" I've placed above. The purpose (flawed or not in the presentation) was to show how those points could be seen as ridiculous if viewed from another point of view on another amendment. Are there implements that could be imposed on gun ownership that may help whatever it is "they" are trying to control without pissing off gun lobby or gun owners...possibly....if a person does not believe there should be restrictions on voting in the same manner as they want to impose on gun ownership, they are inconsistent. If they believe in restriction on both equally, i may not agree with them still, but at least they are being consistent. Further and not to digress, if they support Gay Marriage citing that it is the law of the land and such, then they should support the 2nd amendment fully since it is the law of the land. Those who are consistent in their ideology, even if I disagree, I think have validity in an honest debate on finding solutions. Those who are not are ideologues that are probably not even remotely educated on what they oppose.

Though all are welcome, the purpose of this post is to engage the anti-gun types shooting (no pun intended) at this from a different position; would they support the same imposition of their ideals on the 2nd amendment to all other amendments.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 6 at 2015 5:24 PM

2015-10-06T17:24:26-04:00

Given the state of the government that's been elected by the populace, perhaps it IS time to start having mandatory training to vote. Clearly letting the lowest common denominator IQ wise have a say isn't leading to success....

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 6 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-10-06T18:08:54-04:00

Until the 14th Amendment, no one in the US had an express "right to vote". It was the way things were done, but it was not a protected or enumerated right.

Response by Sgt Ken Prescott made Oct 6 at 2015 9:10 PM

2015-10-06T21:10:21-04:00

You know, this freedom of the press thing was all well and good back when you could only be heard by people within direct earshot. Nowadays, one mouse click can send your message--your unregulated, possibly dangerous message--around the world. Guns are far safer--you can only shoot someone within 300 meters or so, less with a handgun...

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Oct 7 at 2015 5:28 AM

2015-10-07T05:28:53-04:00

I have actually though about voting and what effects things have on it. I personally came to the conclusion that although I understand the need for it to be a right, I also think that people should be required to take a test of some sort to be able to vote.

My reasoning for that is because there are certain groups that are so biased one way or another that when it comes time for an election they won't even think about who they are voting for they'll just choose right or left. You could have a candidate on the conservative side who is an absolute lunatic who shouldn't even be considered for a small time political office let alone presidency and on the democratic side have a tried and true leader who has proven themselves to be loved by both sides for what they do and you will still have people voting Republican because the lunatic has the (R) next to their name.

I myself am conservative and will be voting Republican most likely in this next election assuming Trump isn't the one on the ticket but I will at least look at what the other candidates on both sides have to offer before making that decision. We should always go into an election unbiased. Know where you stand and test the waters with each candidate to see who aligns with your views the most.

The reason I bring up a test for voting specifically is because most of those who stay biased towards one party forever regardless of the candidates views live their lives in complete ignorance to the types of leaders we are voting in. I will use my brother as an example. My brother is a great guy but he is ridiculously biased to the right to the point where I know beyond a shadow of a doubt he will be voting Republican without so much as looking at any other candidates. His knowledge of how anything political runs or of what the candidates plans for the country are will always be minimal, he will just always vote (R). A lot of people are that way for both sides and I think that is a problem in a sense because these are people who don't actually care, they just know they are checking either (R) or (D) before they even know who is running.

A test of some sort could fix that problem by making sure that people at least have a basic knowledge of current issues facing the country so that they can actually look at the candidates and decide which ones they think can make the most difference. Sure there will still be some that will vote for one side regardless but it could possibly make things a little bit better.

Response by CW4 Guy Butler made Oct 7 at 2015 7:50 AM

2015-10-07T07:50:44-04:00

http://prospect.org/article/22-states-wave-new-voting-restrictions-threatens-shift-outcomes-tight-races

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 7 at 2015 11:08 AM

2015-10-07T11:08:38-04:00

Guns I can understand, but the way our modern voting system works I dont believe we need to vote anymore, as our votes don't really count and the person with the most money is the one who wins. Point in case, Dip shit Bush and the so called missing votes that was a debate because after greasing some pockets enough votes were mysteriously found in ...wasn't it Florida or Texas to give him the victory his 2nd term???Very convenient, and very American anymore,so why even have votes if they aren't counted??? Just to make the people FEEL like they still have a say???

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Oct 7 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-10-07T18:53:27-04:00

I actually would love to limit the right of people to vote. If I was dictator for a day and could rewrite the Constitution, I'd establish some voting competency requirements -- property ownership, basic English literacy, minimum IQ/ACT/SAT score. Perhaps change property owner to tax payer. Military members would be eligible to vote as soon as they take the oath, everyone else would wait until they turn 21.

Fortunately for everybody, I have no such ability. People can vote, regardless of how stupid they are, or even if they have no clue as to what they are voting about. I don't like it, but that's what makes it a right -- a right means you can do something regardless of how popular it is or isn't. If someone hates you for doing it, too damned bad.

The right to keep and bear arms is the same way. The difference is there is a significant group of people that couldn't care less what the Constitution says about it, they think they know better and therefore feel free to disregard it, if they can't manage to find a judge who will arbitrarily redefine the Constitution for them.

Response by CW3 Jim Norris made Dec 3 at 2015 3:34 PM

2015-12-03T15:34:31-05:00

I need guns to protect my herd from predators (two and four legged - which requires differing tools) and to hunt with. I need to vote because our form of Democracy is the worst form of government known to man - except for every other form that been tried in the history of man.

I am indeed one of the 'bitter people who cling to their guns and Bibles'....you can recognize us throughout the history of our nation - the ones bleeding and dying in foreign lands. The ones working from daylight til dark six days a weeks in our fields and herds and then teaching Sunday School to the kids. The ones who cry when the flag goes by stand at attention and sing the national anthem. You'll see us bowing our heads before meals in restaurants and thanking our God for the ability to leave a large tip and a smile. On Mothers Day you'll find us at the grave marker of our Mom thanking her for her sacrifice for us and her courage, beauty and grace. On Veterans Day we usually are found at Dad's graveside expressing our pride in his service, integrity, leadership and example to us. Then being at the VFW for a BBQ and backslapping, war story telling afternoon with our brothers in arms......I need my liberty so I can protect yours and mine.

Response by SPC Randall Pendley made Jul 5 at 2017 5:05 PM

2017-07-05T17:05:22-04:00

As Rambo said. Hunting

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Jan 28 at 2019 6:53 PM

2019-01-28T18:53:24-05:00

Nice way to get people to think instead of just have a knee jerk reaction.

Response by CPL Steve Freeman made Apr 4 at 2019 6:57 PM

2019-04-04T18:57:55-04:00

I need guns because. Also, I need profligate amounts of ammo because. And moreover, I need an over abundance of oil and gun cleaner and other firearm maintenance materials because. And on my personal, professional opinion